4 ways to make a city more walkable | Jeff Speck

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  • Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
  • Freedom from cars, freedom from sprawl, freedom to walk your city! City planner Jeff Speck shares his "general theory of walkability" -- four planning principles to transform sprawling cities of six-lane highways and 600-foot blocks into safe, walkable oases full of bike lanes and tree-lined streets.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,2 тис.

  • @matthewsawczyn6592
    @matthewsawczyn6592 4 роки тому +1530

    I recall being happy to walk 45 minutes to a destination in Rome, because of the sheer beauty on every street

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 3 роки тому +44

      Im happy to walk 45 minutes in New York, San Francisco, St Petersburg, MIami, Charleston, Theyre all gorgeous cities.

    • @goliathsteinbeisser3547
      @goliathsteinbeisser3547 3 роки тому +109

      That is EXACTLY the point. Make a city that people are happy to BE in, not just a hellscape of grey and noise that one traverses as fast as means permit.

    • @petez4608
      @petez4608 3 роки тому +1

      Thats for sure

    • @IsThisRain
      @IsThisRain 3 роки тому +41

      This is why mixed-use zoning is extremely important. Not every city can be a Rome, Paris, or NYC, but mixed-use shifts the interests from 'sightseeing' to _socialization_ and _convenience._

    • @SuperiorPosterior
      @SuperiorPosterior 3 роки тому +12

      I walked 45 minutes from high school to home every day, and I'd do my homework in a nice little park.
      Then they tore it up to put in a new apartment complex...

  • @katepeterson5478
    @katepeterson5478 6 років тому +2297

    Meanwhile, in my city: "We made bike lanes and nobody uses them, why would we build more?" But about 75% of those bike lanes are directly uphill in the suburbs and none of them connect to each other...

    • @ruslbicycle6006
      @ruslbicycle6006 5 років тому +268

      And bike lanes are so efficient at moving people they are never congested. A bike lane that carries twice as many people as a car lane will look empty while the car lane is full of backed up cars.

    • @xtusvincit5230
      @xtusvincit5230 5 років тому +27

      @@ruslbicycle6006 Because bikers don't obey traffic laws.

    • @knucker3
      @knucker3 5 років тому +54

      @@xtusvincit5230 Seriously. The bike lane near by house is the most dangerous street to cross because they don't stop, they don't even slow down at intersections. And they don't make any noise so you don't hear them coming. Unless you try to walk across the street when they are zooming down all parts of it. Then they yell at you like it's your fault they had to actually slow down for once.

    • @xtusvincit5230
      @xtusvincit5230 5 років тому +31

      @@knucker3 Yes, the biker's mentality is that they are superior to others and all must yield for them.

    • @bikerusl
      @bikerusl 5 років тому +125

      @@xtusvincit5230 what makes you think that? Is that a kind of complaint like jaywalking? That those in a city need treat cars as sacred and not use the public space and never dare slow down the important business of driving big empty cars in circles?
      Motor Vehicle Law's are not morally defensible to be applied to bikes or pedestrians. It is one of the great injustices of a city that cars have a right to kill people.
      Cars don't belong anywhere near humans. They make great video games, for those who prefer the artificial world to the real.

  • @eizhowa
    @eizhowa 7 років тому +3988

    I think one of the benefits of living in an old european city is that the streets were made to accomodate people (and horses), not cars.

    • @JallenMeodia
      @JallenMeodia 7 років тому +81

      Being European and explored the USA a fair bit gotta disagree. A lot less stressful traveling around the wide-flat multi-laned roads than it is trying to squeeze two lanes of traffic down roads originally built when cars weren't a thing.
      Also narrow roads will only slow drivers down when they're not use to narrower roads. Make every road narrow it becomes the norm and people become less weary of driving on them.
      As with most things in life one extreme or the other doesn't work just gotta find a happy balance.

    • @eizhowa
      @eizhowa 7 років тому +307

      +Jallen I meant a benefit to pedestrians. Cars usually end up having to drive around old cities. Driving around London, for example, is faster than driving through it.
      I grew up in the country side where the roads were narrow and the "natives" did drive fast. However, in the old town where I live now, the roads are so winding, there are traffic lights and zebra crossings everywhere which slows cars down.
      I think it is great that I can live in a city without owning a car or being very dependent on busses etc. I can walk where I need to go:)

    • @TheRealE.B.
      @TheRealE.B. 7 років тому +43

      I live in Pittsburgh, and so many things about our city don't make sense from a design perspective because it was founded before Americans started planning their cities (or driving cars), but it IS relatively walkable until you reach the suburbs. Especially during rush hour, when driving isn't a very attractive option.

    • @NikiK57
      @NikiK57 7 років тому +32

      Only partially true - most cities have areas like "Old town" - with small streets etc. But the cities have grown 100x since those times... So its basically only the city centers, old towns etc which are like that.

    • @eizhowa
      @eizhowa 7 років тому +17

      +Burn Ea Can you name a industrialized civilization from the early 1800s that knew that they had to prepare for future infrastructure like water pipes and electricity, or knew how diseases spread?
      And remember, Americans were once European, so they are no smarter. Unless you think that a persons IQ increases when they cross they travel to the US?

  • @PhillProbst
    @PhillProbst 5 років тому +774

    The most important factor to promote “walkability” is convenience. If you want to encourage walkability, walking must be more convenient than driving.

    • @sorrowandsufferin924
      @sorrowandsufferin924 4 роки тому +36

      I think, if you make this happen, if you advocate parallel parking and trees as a way to seperate walkways from streets, people WILL consider walking more convienient than driving, especially on beautiful days. I mean, what would you prefer on a sunny day: Sitting in your car, watching outside, concentrating on the road so you don't get into an accident; or walking along the streets, enjoying the sun and the buzzing of people that gives off a feeling of alive, passing that one restaurant and seeing people eating with each other, smiling and talking? Walking is much more enjoyable than driving - and that comes from me, a person who prefers going by bus over going by train in every case except for time required. I just love the street. But I also love the alive, walkable city that we have so often here in Europe.

    • @alohatigers1199
      @alohatigers1199 4 роки тому +5

      Phillip Probst
      No, because time is against you.
      I’m not walking to school that takes 20 minutes. I can drive in less than 2. Wow, I save 18 minutes. 18 mins, I can study for an exam. Efficiency 101.
      I’m not walking home with a cart 🛒 full of groceries, it slows you down and it’s tiring.
      I can load all that in a car because a car has a trunk to store stuff. And boom, I’m home in less than 5. So easy. Efficiency.
      I save so much time.
      24 hrs. That’s not enough time.
      9 hrs of sleep.
      2 hr workout.
      9 to 5 day job
      6 hr school.
      Total: more than 24 hrs.
      Not enough to time to relax.
      Again, time is against you. Every second should not be wasted.

    • @Itstime1231
      @Itstime1231 4 роки тому +39

      @@alohatigers1199 Depending where you live, it is faster to walk than try to find a parking spot, pay for the parking spot, put the ticket on your car, and then go to groceries. If you live far, car, if you live close, walk.

    • @falleithani5411
      @falleithani5411 4 роки тому +24

      ​@@alohatigers1199 While you drive, you _need_ to concentrate mostly on driving in order to be relatively safe. You waste 2 minutes. While you walk, you can mostly zone out and break down exam questions and research and budgets and mathematics in your head. You waste 0 minutes. The only time I rely on motor vehicles is when I'm transporting a large amount of stuff, and even then, I prefer to use a wagon or public transportation, so I don't have to cut into my thinking time for it.
      Personally, I walk to think, memorize, design, rehearse, compose, and/or analyze. I end up walking for about 2 hours per day on average for those purposes (it effectively _is_ my workout), which means that even though I walk everywhere, some of my walking is just in circles and with no destination, simply because it is _such_ an effective and efficient way for me to work and think that it is often worthwhile to keep walking a bit longer even after reaching my destination, to take full advantage of the focus and clarity it gives me.
      That said, if you are very unused to being a pedestrian, it does take time for it to become second nature to the point where you can let your mind wander without risk, but it's a _lot_ easier to do and faster to learn than driving. Time spent acquiring and mastering a useful skill is not wasted.
      Lastly, if you can actually find a way to cut the car _completely,_ that's a _lot_ of money saved, when you add up the purchase costs, maintenance, insurance, and gas. Efficiency.
      That said, yeah, depending on the job you have and the layout of your environment, this stuff is not always an option. The sooner we can move to a post-scarcity economy where working is no longer _required_ to earn a living, the better it'll be for everyone's education and health. Holding down a job and attending school at the same time is brutal.

    • @FractalPrism.
      @FractalPrism. 4 роки тому +3

      ah yes, all the times i wanted to walk 15 miles to costco then trek home with a bulk of goods.

  • @DramaGeek1225
    @DramaGeek1225 2 роки тому +111

    I live in one of the cities he cited at the beginning as the "typical American city" and can confirm that it has all the issues he discusses. I technically live close enough to work to be able to walk or bike, but because of the way the city is designed, I would not consider it a safe walk. I used to live in NYC and I miss the walkability and access to public transportation.

    • @sircharlesmormont9300
      @sircharlesmormont9300 Рік тому +3

      I am in a similar position. I live 10 minutes away from work by car. To get to my nearest bus stop, however, is a 20 minute walk to an abandoned parking lot with no lighting and just a teensy sign for the bus stop. The sidewalks are not well maintained. Taking the bus turns my commute from 10 minutes to at least an hour - with a half hour extra tacked on before I clock in. I would much rather pay an hour's wage for a ride share than go through all of that stress first thing in the morning. Now, when I was a very, very young child, my city still had a bus service that came into the neighborhoods. My mom took the bus to work. My grandma took the bus to work. Bus access was part of the appeal of the neighborhood. I, too, once lived in NYC. The public transportation was amazing. I felt so free and so capable, able to get anywhere and everywhere without a car. It was great! We need a drastic overhaul of public transportation here in U.S. cities.

  • @PrincessNinja007
    @PrincessNinja007 5 років тому +154

    I've had friends get picked up by cops for walking on the interstate. A huge issue for non-walkable towns (I can't speak for cities, my county seat is 12,000) is that if you don't have a two-car household (which no college roommates have), you're screwed if anything happens to your car. You better pray it's just a flat or an oil change, because even if you're willing to risk your neck to walk 2-3 miles in a ditch next to the highway, it can be literally illegal to walk to work

    • @coffeewithextrasuga1017
      @coffeewithextrasuga1017 2 роки тому +17

      WTF! I've never heard of walking being illegal. The US finds many ways to surprise me each day.

    • @Lurch685
      @Lurch685 Рік тому +16

      @@coffeewithextrasuga1017 highways in the US usually have signs on the on ramps that entry is prohibited to pedestrians, bicyclists, and non motorized vehicles.

    • @LW1Tok
      @LW1Tok Рік тому +7

      Only in the US can something like walking be illegal.

    • @Blackadder75
      @Blackadder75 Рік тому +9

      @@LW1Tok no, he means walking alongside highways, that is illegal in europe too (autobahns)

    • @LW1Tok
      @LW1Tok Рік тому

      @@Blackadder75 I never knew that. We learn something new everyday 😌.

  • @TheKirschbaumfee
    @TheKirschbaumfee 6 років тому +916

    As a european this blews my mind. i mean i 'knew' that many american cities and suburbs were build for cars but i now know i didnt imagine how this really looks like :D

    • @UkrTrashRemix
      @UkrTrashRemix 5 років тому +8

      You just haven't been to Ukraine (especially Kyiv)

    • @ThePhDK1d
      @ThePhDK1d 5 років тому +126

      It’s worse than it looks Ann trust me. I lived in a suburb that the supermarket was 800 m away from me and I had to take the car for a 2 min ride just because there were no streetwalks and I didn’t feel like being ran over. It’s depressing honestly not being able to take a walk just to clear your mind.

    • @jaredlangley6924
      @jaredlangley6924 5 років тому +4

      @@ThePhDK1d No you drove because poor people or crazy people walk in the U.S.

    • @mabus4910
      @mabus4910 5 років тому +20

      I know what you mean. But in europe we made some planning mistakes on our own. Like building small industrial zones all over the places to spread them out. Now you have trucks cruising everywhere instead of stearing them where you want them to be (on motorways).

    • @_Diana_S
      @_Diana_S 5 років тому +7

      Why is this so surprising? Did not you learn history in school? We did, I remember being told about medieval cities where second and third floors were extending over the first ones so that they almost touch and block all sun out, household garbage and "liquids" disposed directly in streets, streets, that even at ground level were just wide enough to let a horseman with a lance pass through? You can not think that cities that were built much later, in another part of the world, with different geography and in different economical conditions will be planned the same as medieval ones. You would not be surprised, that Brasilia, for example, looks completely different than old European city, right? Because it is a specially planned city with special purpose, right? Same with Texas and other American cities and towns - they were built for those conditions and were made comfortable for people who lived there at that time and who almost all had more than 1 car in the family. Now times are changing, and we can not judge those cities more than we are judging now dirty medieval European cities with their narrow streets.

  • @adlinks662
    @adlinks662 7 років тому +963

    Went straight on Cities: Skylines after this haha

    • @MrPanda-mp8dt
      @MrPanda-mp8dt 7 років тому +10

      +ADLINKS same here lmao

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 6 років тому +40

      Yeah, Cims can be pretty stupid at times, but at least they will gladly walk and cycle.

    • @ColeRees
      @ColeRees 5 років тому +20

      My first thought: cant wait to apply all of this to my cities lol

    • @horribleIRUKANDJI
      @horribleIRUKANDJI 5 років тому +2

      same lol

    • @hello.bello.6788
      @hello.bello.6788 5 років тому +1

      Me too hahaha

  • @gneruinseruihnutshnu
    @gneruinseruihnutshnu 6 років тому +927

    Hello from Europe, a place where this talk about cities that you cannot cross without a car sounds sci-fi.

    • @asatsumaorange9296
      @asatsumaorange9296 6 років тому +72

      If US cities had reached high population before the car, they would have been built with walking in mind and we wouldn't be having this talk. Philadelphia has about as many people as it did 100 years ago, and it's all mixed-use neighborhoods and rowhouses. Charlotte was a small city then and its population is 20 times higher now. The people who built Charlotte assumed driving was an option and things spiraled out of control so it became the only option.

    • @gearandalthefirst7027
      @gearandalthefirst7027 5 років тому +49

      as someone who lives in a big city, I can tell you it's dystopian scifi if anything

    • @zotaninoron3548
      @zotaninoron3548 5 років тому +10

      @@gearandalthefirst7027 It is clearly cyberpunk run by huge megacorps that track your every movement through your phone and status updates to your social media. :D

    • @spinnito
      @spinnito 4 роки тому +9

      Yeah that's true most of the time an average sized American car, wouldn't fit a downtown old medieval narrow European street, this it's real!, and I take my electric Chinese scooter skate and I reach everything in 5 minutes, greetings of a Mexican in Spain.

    • @silauz1552
      @silauz1552 4 роки тому +3

      Yes but for a flat in the center you have to be rich.
      And this leads to Not have stores in the inner City and your Work place is often 5 to 10 km away which leads to many people want Back a Car.

  • @davidsw92
    @davidsw92 7 років тому +1048

    I for one would LOVE to see bicycle/pedestrian infrastructure prioritized over automotive--I'd bike everywhere if it were safer.

    • @dlwatib
      @dlwatib 6 років тому +8

      I would bike only if I had an electric bike.

    • @AlanPeery
      @AlanPeery 6 років тому +41

      Roads are important -- but even city center deliveries can be scheduled for out of main hours delivery

    • @Mr8lacklp
      @Mr8lacklp 6 років тому +40

      Dave W it doesn't even need to be prioritised over automotive infrastructure. At the moment a lot of our infrastructure is built around the car and the car alone. As soon as we try to implement equality between bike/pedestrian travel and car travel that's a huge step forward.

    • @bcubed72
      @bcubed72 6 років тому +2

      Dave W
      Or you could grow a pair and play in traffic, the way I did when I was a bicycle commuter. No "bike lanes" back then!

    • @bat_bro1lewis491
      @bat_bro1lewis491 5 років тому +15

      In my home town of Porthcawl in Wales, we had very bad pedestrian and bike infrastructure but then a small few kilometer path and then almost everyone used instantly. This proves if you build they will come

  • @IAMDIMITRI
    @IAMDIMITRI 5 років тому +228

    I will definitely apply it to my own city someday when I have one.

    • @user-pn9qp1sr3e
      @user-pn9qp1sr3e 2 роки тому +3

      City skylines lol

    • @Kasiarzynka
      @Kasiarzynka 7 місяців тому

      ​@@user-pn9qp1sr3eLiterally there reason for my UA-cam search that gave me this video, lol 😂

  • @lesliengo8347
    @lesliengo8347 3 роки тому +45

    Having lived in Metro Vancouver and knowing the City of Vancouver is actively trying to reduce carbon emissions by 2050, it is very relatable. Adding more bicycle lanes, different transit options, wider and decorated sidewalks, and being educated about why we should prioritize walking over driving will make a city more livable and enjoyable. Love the humour as well!

    • @switzerlandch4986
      @switzerlandch4986 2 роки тому +2

      I totally agree with you!

    • @No-iy9cx
      @No-iy9cx Рік тому +2

      Agree! North American city need more public transit and bike lanes.

  • @daidaitastic
    @daidaitastic 7 років тому +172

    "an optional instrument of freedom rather than a prosthetic device" cool

  • @peterjones701
    @peterjones701 6 років тому +70

    I live in Salt Lake City, and something that I think is viewed as our greatest weakness could become our greatest strength: our blocks. Yes, our 660' blocks are enormous and unwalkable; but I think if we were to carve them up and let them be a mixed-use wonderland, each block could become its own little neighborhood! Living, working, shopping, and recreation could all be on one block! Salt Lake City started out, in a sense, as mixed-use. The Plot of Zion planned for people to live and farm and trade all on their block. It didn't have zoning districts of live here, work there.

    • @ruslbicycle6006
      @ruslbicycle6006 5 років тому +6

      Yeah, put in gardens. And the roads are all wide enough to take cars off half and make it usable for people (not cars). I've been in Provo also. It's all surprisingly bikeable, just needs some support to transform and be a happier place for everyone

    • @misconceptionindustries2968
      @misconceptionindustries2968 5 років тому +2

      I thought salt lake was great trains and buses everywhere there is alot worse cities trucks me!

    • @Lurch685
      @Lurch685 Рік тому +1

      See: Barcelona

  • @charmingyoutuber2408
    @charmingyoutuber2408 7 років тому +842

    I think I just found what I want to do for a living

    • @jessicahwlo
      @jessicahwlo 7 років тому +50

      stay gold read Jan Gehl's books as well if this inspires you!

    • @wen6519
      @wen6519 6 років тому +100

      that is the sweetest thing i've read in a UA-cam comment

    • @jimdevalk
      @jimdevalk 6 років тому +3

      stay gold just walking for a living? Cool.

    • @captain-sturdy
      @captain-sturdy 5 років тому

      Random Nobody who are you?

    • @captain-sturdy
      @captain-sturdy 5 років тому

      Random Nobody did you work in the field?

  • @ferjo3192
    @ferjo3192 6 років тому +51

    1:30 - Four things you need simultaneously to make a walkable city: 1. Proper reason to walk; 2. safe 3; comfortable; 4. interesting

  • @cilstr
    @cilstr 7 років тому +77

    thank you for explaining why i find those new sprawling 'Neighbourhoods" give me the creeps and make me feel ill. :)

    • @SovietReunionYT
      @SovietReunionYT 5 років тому +7

      It's unsafe for kids to play with such sharp objects. Be careful or you might cut yourself on that edge.

  • @rjh00
    @rjh00 6 років тому +32

    That commercial bridge at the end was so beautiful.

  • @LaurokaPlay
    @LaurokaPlay 6 років тому +127

    As a european currently in the Unites States, this is the main reason why I want to move back to Europe asap

    • @Josh-wq8tt
      @Josh-wq8tt 4 роки тому +6

      Just got to find the right town. As you can see in this video, it's so different depending on where you go. Myself, I prefer to stay away from the cities completely.

    • @andrewtucker94
      @andrewtucker94 4 роки тому +14

      Yeah I enjoyed my US trip but found the lack of pavement/sidewalks in some smaller towns baffling.

    • @Josh-wq8tt
      @Josh-wq8tt 4 роки тому +8

      @Northern Lights it is hideous. Not sure why anyone would want to live in suburbia to be honest. It's not for me and I'm from here. For me I want nothing more than wide open space and no close neighbors though.

    • @friedadavis5887
      @friedadavis5887 4 роки тому

      Same

    • @catnium
      @catnium 4 роки тому +1

      nah traitors get to stay in the usa

  • @nickjoeb
    @nickjoeb 7 років тому +214

    We need this planning everywhere we can have it! For bigger areas I want trains instead of grid lock!

    • @nickjoeb
      @nickjoeb 7 років тому +14

      What I'm saying is walkable cities are a good idea. Though in places like the Midwest they may be an ineffective choice due to how the community's are spread out. So there I think a train system would be preferable.

    • @ricisebastiano
      @ricisebastiano 7 років тому +12

      Rail infrastructure is incredibly expensive, just go with buses; a much cheaper option

    • @nickjoeb
      @nickjoeb 7 років тому +23

      I don't agree with that. Road maintenance is exceedingly expensive and doesn't actually solve the traffic problem as well as rails. Not to mention getting taxed for rails makes many people stop having a need for cars which is a huge drain on many American's income in the midwest.

    • @zpetar
      @zpetar 6 років тому +7

      Any good public transportation system can solve traffic problem. It doesn't matter if it is buses, trains... If one bus can transport 60 people compare space on road that one bus needs vs 15-60 cars. To move 10.000 people there is need for roads to accommodate less than 200 buses vs 2,500-10,000 cars.

    • @Mr8lacklp
      @Mr8lacklp 6 років тому +10

      Richard Zuberecz buses are just worse in every way except for price. Compare to trains they are uncomfortable and cramped. When there is construction being done on the rail and you therfore have to drive half the distance by bus your commute doubles so they are slow as well. Trains may be more expensive but they are also vastly superior. Buses are good to move people within one quarter or one township but if you want travel between towns trains beat them by miles.

  • @octaviasmith5002
    @octaviasmith5002 4 роки тому +7

    As a non-car owner transplant in Nashville, I can assure you sidewalks *do not* exist except near the gentrified areas downtown and by the universities. I literally walk 2 feet from traffic ON THE ROAD on my commute to work and back. Moving to Minneapolis later on this year and buying a bike. They have pedestrian bridges and bike lanes all over the city (^-^ so excited).

  • @johnpacheco3396
    @johnpacheco3396 5 років тому +13

    The best part of many New York buildings that you had a business on the first floor of your building to shop and eat. Same in areas like Hong Kong and others country's were large housing buildings with a Mall in the lower areas

  • @alexiswhite5419
    @alexiswhite5419 7 років тому +25

    I wish he would come to singapore
    our streets are not un-walkable but i would love for his ideas to improve our streets more

  • @woogiemonster
    @woogiemonster 7 років тому +34

    The image at 6:01 is hilarious (and sad) when you see it out of context, but that was done as a desperate, last-ditch effort to help accommodate cripple people who would use the facility for physical therapy because a standard access-ramp would be impossibly steep. But of course, where there is free convenience, there are also people who don't need it using it anyway.

    • @woogiemonster
      @woogiemonster 7 років тому +4

      I know, that's why I specified _out of context_ and said _people who don't need it will use it anyway._ That specific gym is photographed dozens of times (google *gym escalator*) and the joke is always that it's a gym that seems to be catering to the lazy, and this specific photo reinforces that by having people use it who have no visible handicap. All I was trying to say is that yes the joke is funny, but *the truth* is that they were actually just trying to help cripple people.

    • @gpwgpw555
      @gpwgpw555 4 роки тому

      One of my dislikes was when I came to a handicap parking space, I would pass it up just to have a health person park in the spot after me and sprint off to were they were going.

    • @jennyhughes4474
      @jennyhughes4474 4 роки тому +2

      Don't think you could get a wheelchair on those escalators safely or at all?

    • @xandercorp6175
      @xandercorp6175 4 роки тому +2

      @@woogiemonster The truth is that helping crippled people hurt everyone else because of human nature.

    • @blazethegryphon9990
      @blazethegryphon9990 4 роки тому

      @@xandercorp6175 Path of least resistance, such is nature....

  • @IcelanderUSer
    @IcelanderUSer 5 років тому +113

    brilliant. I'm so glad people are realizing how we destroyed our cities by accommodating automobiles. you can have the best of both worlds without leveling entire cities, like Houston or Fort Worth. All they had to do in Houston was build decent commuter rail into and out of the city. this would encourage density downtown, where the jobs would be, without having to create a parking space for every single worker.

    • @williamt.sherman9841
      @williamt.sherman9841 4 роки тому +6

      parking lots are ironically valuable real estate at that point since now the owners can develop what was previously free car storage lots.

  • @notourz7956
    @notourz7956 4 роки тому +4

    I moved from Mesa, AZ to Durango, CO for school and the walkability in each city is like night and day. I love walking in Durango because it has a great transit system, safe sidewalks, narrow streets, diversified small city blocks. In Mesa, even when the weather was great, I hated walking places because the sidewalks are scary, roads huge, and everything is a sprawl. I couldn't tell why the two places were so different, but now I do and I hope Mesa becomes more walkable.

  • @tristanmoller9498
    @tristanmoller9498 5 років тому +15

    Such a genuine guy. Really enjoyed it

  • @darkknight072
    @darkknight072 7 років тому +161

    Houston here, can confirm freeways suck.

    • @johnc6158
      @johnc6158 7 років тому +6

      darkknight072 try California

    • @simo947
      @simo947 7 років тому +5

      i've been on a road trip from washington to california, oh boy the freeways around san fransisco is a nightmare

    • @TimJSwan
      @TimJSwan 5 років тому +1

      He's not talking about freeways, which are designed to take you far distances. He's talking about roads that take you from one place to another within the same city.

    • @SovietReunionYT
      @SovietReunionYT 5 років тому +6

      In the US, there are apparently freeways INSIDE cities! I guess that's what happens when the expand road -> traffic increases -> expand road etc. cycle is taken to its logical conclusion.

    • @Sanif514
      @Sanif514 4 роки тому +4

      dude its the fucking worse, we've got fairly good places to go to all around but no sidewalks on any streets outside of suburbs as if walking was only meant for leisure to these people.

  • @GamerGurke15
    @GamerGurke15 7 років тому +84

    I am so happy living in Berlin, a European and green city where people decide to walk for an hour to get to a friend instead of taking the subway. Also mentioning that no one would ever think about getting into a car to get to a friend if it isn't absolutely necessary.

    • @acejames7718
      @acejames7718 5 років тому +3

      It's nice to hear good things about Berlin. Most of my life I only heatd horror stories. Good to hear ur getting a fair shake these days.

    • @acejames7718
      @acejames7718 5 років тому

      heard*

    • @AlexFlodder
      @AlexFlodder 5 років тому +12

      Another reason for walking/cycling compared to driving. Is alcohol.
      No drunk driving when you walk.

    • @JulieHiltbrunner
      @JulieHiltbrunner 5 років тому +7

      In Texas, you could die walking an hour mid-day in the summer. But I imagine that’s true of other places in the winter.

    • @jasperfk
      @jasperfk 4 роки тому +8

      Creating Julie Silversmyth Then why did people settle there? They must have walked in the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries, surely?

  • @boazthomassie4919
    @boazthomassie4919 7 років тому +550

    I did a short presentation on suburban sprawl in college. it's terrible for the environment and great for segregation

    • @brendarua01
      @brendarua01 7 років тому +44

      Segregation that was supported by federal mortgage programs to boot.

    • @Mario-sy4nw
      @Mario-sy4nw 7 років тому +49

      +Boaz Chicago mastered the art of segregation by Highway. And there were rumors that certain overpasses were made purposely low enough to prevent buses from going under them in order to keep neighborhoods uniform. The problem with the burbs, (one of the many problems), was that they were basically glorified military barracks that isolated people from themselves and the outside world. When governments tried to force integration by housing law people just packed up and moved to the other side of town. The solution to the problem is to create great cities and people will naturally integrate without even thinking about it (because the city will be a natural meeting point) instead of using a misguided government program.

    • @brendarua01
      @brendarua01 7 років тому +6

      Oh great! A zombie troll now. rofl Ok, you can go back to your cave. It will be light soon and I'm sure your mama will have the basement ready.

    • @MrElectricVibration
      @MrElectricVibration 7 років тому +6

      Would a zombie troll feed off dead topics ?

    • @rsmith155
      @rsmith155 7 років тому

      mrbandishbhoir Fucktards

  • @Basta11
    @Basta11 2 роки тому +12

    This man is doing God's work. We need walkability back to our streets in the US, so badly.

  • @AnthonyFrancisJones
    @AnthonyFrancisJones 5 років тому +4

    Fantastic - and all so true. Living and having a real interest in Telford (UK) it is good to see how these ideas can be used in a New Town. So much of what works is also counterintuitive and it takes passion, drive and determination to get ideas such as these implemented.

  • @barbaranevesmaia2462
    @barbaranevesmaia2462 5 років тому +60

    Hi, I'm a deaf student of architecture and urbanism. Please put closed captions in the videos. #Moreaccessibility, please.

    • @toddkes5890
      @toddkes5890 5 років тому +24

      4 ways to make a city more walkable:
      1) Proper reason to walk. This can range from making cars having to go slower, to avoiding the cluster of building types. (By cluster he means don't put a park area, then an industrial area, a housing area, etc. Put a park near homes, a few small industries scattered around, etc.
      2) walk has to be safe and feel safe. No sudden open areas where the walker feels exposed to being hit by cars, or dealing with excess rain/sun. Covered areas allow people to know that if the clouds overhead turn into rain, they can dry off. Confine cars to their lanes, and leave room for walkers. One example was putting it where you had car lanes, then car parking lanes, then bike lanes, then sidewalks. Walkers knew thy only had to watch out for bicycles, and bicycles had parked cars to protect them from cars.
      3) walk has to be comfortable. No sudden ledges to get off the road.
      4) walk has to be interesting. If people get bored walking to a location, they will turn around and not continue. Shorter blocks (200 feet vs 600 feet) mean there is more variety/storefront to see.
      Hope this helps

    • @junkjackbuildernz
      @junkjackbuildernz 4 роки тому +6

      check description.
      ted.com/translate apparently has closed captions

  • @HenryWiygul
    @HenryWiygul 6 років тому +1

    How fascinating! It seems so intuitive yet completely overlooked!

  • @MarcoSibeiEndau
    @MarcoSibeiEndau 5 років тому

    Thank you so much.
    It's really inspiring indeed.
    Thank you sir

  • @CoderShare
    @CoderShare 5 років тому +12

    This is my favorite Ted Talk ever.

  • @hbarudi
    @hbarudi 5 років тому +21

    A step in the right direction toward reducing dependence on fossil fuels and I like that bridge in Columbus Ohio which is close to where I used to live before it existed. We need more walkable and bikeable roads in the US.

  • @garciavashchino1
    @garciavashchino1 5 років тому +1

    strange how warm these ideas are... they convey such peace... i never noticed... i would love to walk every where like work, food, shopping, fun things... it is not easy when you work in an airport... but i love these ideas...

    • @elietheprof5678
      @elietheprof5678 5 років тому

      Airports are definitely an exception :)

    • @exchangAscribe
      @exchangAscribe 3 дні тому

      theyre not ideas, this exists in many other places around the world and has for a long time. the U.S. is just horrible at making cities and is obsessed with cars. and they dont care about things like beauty.

  • @voiceofreason1663
    @voiceofreason1663 7 років тому +5

    Amazing speech. Hopefully the city I live in implements this idea,

  • @ScooterinAB
    @ScooterinAB 4 роки тому +6

    It's surprising how important it is to build cities for the people who live in the city rather than the cars that live there.

  • @notourz7956
    @notourz7956 4 роки тому +18

    Cities have so much potential to be designed for the people who live and commute there but very few cities in the US are willing to make it so. It is tragic.

  • @markcarey8426
    @markcarey8426 4 роки тому +2

    Brilliant! Just what I was looking for. Reminds me of A Pattern Language.

  • @rhejamphi
    @rhejamphi 6 років тому

    What a spectacular presentation! Concise and intelligent.

  • @joshamorris
    @joshamorris 6 років тому +42

    #1 way to make city more walkable is to make housing affordable for people who need to walk to live inside city limits.

    • @elietheprof5678
      @elietheprof5678 5 років тому +10

      It's actually the other way around. There just aren't enough walkable areas. Short supply and high demand make the rent too damn high.
      (The vast majority of homes are in places where you need a car.)
      The solution is to build more downtowns. Turn boring residential neighborhoods into hot spots with lots of fun stuff happening :)

    • @mashedtomato2079
      @mashedtomato2079 3 роки тому

      @@elietheprof5678 amen!

  • @bristoled93
    @bristoled93 5 років тому +4

    I walk everywhere, I live in the middle of Bristol England which is like most old cities in Europe, very walkable.

  • @cheryldowse6055
    @cheryldowse6055 6 років тому

    Fantastic talk! So necessary!

  • @ethandenton3393
    @ethandenton3393 5 років тому

    Excellent talk. You have an amazing capacity to relate information, and ideas.

    • @zahraghafarzadeh8114
      @zahraghafarzadeh8114 4 роки тому

      من فقط ذخیره کفش بچگانه را میخواهم

  • @georgewu5
    @georgewu5 5 років тому +3

    My block contains (4) 40 stories and (12) 6 stories container housing with pocket Central Parks between them which are on top of the garages. each block is connected by footbridges over the street with traffic. All these are built along the side of high-speed railways, between Hong Kong and Beijing. George Wu, ARCHITECT, A.I.A., NCARB 2018-11-24

  • @xiloeteknowledgiesllc1973
    @xiloeteknowledgiesllc1973 6 років тому +23

    Bikes and vehicles should never be mixed. Dedicate walking and biking corridors every 2nd or 3rd block. The point is accessibility. Trucks are completely forgotten by these designers and planners. We have to think about the vehicles that bring the things we like to consume and purchase.

    • @_Diana_S
      @_Diana_S 5 років тому +3

      This is just a wishful thinking, not real life design. Unfortunately, some of these ideas are being forced on us already without much consideration and taking into account existing situation.

    • @wolf1066
      @wolf1066 5 років тому +3

      Trucks should be completely replaced by rail, especially between cities/towns. There's no justification for having large semis entering city limits.

    • @toddkes5890
      @toddkes5890 5 років тому

      @@wolf1066 You still have to get goods from the railyards to the businesses that need them. What would you recommend for this, instead of in-city trucks?

    • @wolf1066
      @wolf1066 5 років тому +10

      @@toddkes5890 Smaller vehicles - vans and *small* trucks that don't have the same dimensions or do the same damage to road infrastructure or congest traffic as much as 18-wheelers and articulated trucks.
      A decent rail infrastructure could allow for more freight yards scattered across a really large city, reducing the distance required to freight bulk goods so you don't have to fill a large truck to service numerous businesses, you can service a lesser number of businesses with smaller vehicles heading out in different directions.
      Rail can be run from the electrical grid, which gives the option of renewable energy sources, rail has its own infrastructure separate from roadways so other vehicle owners aren't subsidising the damage done to the roads by the 18-wheelers and aren't stuck in traffic behind large slow vehicles and aren't constantly being cut off by arrogant wankers who think that "18 wheels = automatic right of way".

    • @fortunefed8719
      @fortunefed8719 4 роки тому +12

      @@toddkes5890 There are many cities in Europe who's centers are completely closed to traffic except deliveries in small trucks (think UPS sized delivery trucks and smaller) and everyone walks as they have for literally hundreds of years. You can get groceries, clothes, a nice dinner, specialty items, all within 5 minutes of your home. Mail delivery systems are even on foot with a small pull-cart. By shrinking the size of shops and having more of them, each shop then only needs a small truck to keep it stocked.

  • @Slommy99
    @Slommy99 4 роки тому +1

    Fascinating stuff, I’ve always found architecture interesting so this was a treat to listen to.

  • @zkmalik
    @zkmalik 7 років тому

    beautiful talk.

  • @mickesmanymovies
    @mickesmanymovies 4 роки тому +4

    It would seem I live on the opposite side of that scale... From my apartment I could reach any shop or mall by bicycle in 15 minutes or less.
    On a couple of occasions when going on shorter airplane trips to our capital, I've even strapped my carry-on luggage to the back of my bike and pedalled to the airport (where the city has built a really nice, heated indoors garage for bikes - cars are referred to the outside lot). At a leisurly speed I can get to the airport in just about 10 minutes.

  • @IAMDIMITRI
    @IAMDIMITRI 5 років тому +3

    I don't have a drivers licence because I always lived in a city where I could walk and tram everywhere. I liked it!

  • @DNModels
    @DNModels 7 років тому

    Fantastic video! Thank you!!!

  • @ahikernamedgq
    @ahikernamedgq 4 роки тому

    This video autoplayed after another video I was watching ended. This was a great, interesting talk. Very enjoyable.

  • @robinturnbull1731
    @robinturnbull1731 4 роки тому +4

    So glad British towns and cities are built at a time where carts were the widest things

  • @abramthiessen8749
    @abramthiessen8749 5 років тому +5

    Living in Thunder Bay I see a large gap between the older city cores where I can run to three different grocery stores 15 minutes from my house with lovely sidewalks featuring benches and statues along a narrow road. And the newer parts of the city which have wide dangerous roads with zoned suburbs and shopping districts.
    I bike everywhere and so when I went to the movie theatre down the 4 lane road and found out they weren't open, I decided I wanted to go to the mall that was just 1 block away. But to get to that mall, I had to get past a 7ft fence topped with barbed wire which only opened at the vehicular entrance to the theatre parking lot. There is no sidewalk and so I had to walk briefly the driving lane to leave the theatre.
    And for what? Why do they seem to hate pedestrians so much?
    Why did I have to enter the mall by the "contractor's" entrance or else walk a quarter of the way around?
    Half of the city seems to understand and the other side just doesn't.

    • @_Diana_S
      @_Diana_S 5 років тому +2

      Why don't you write to your city council or whatever it is called?

    • @abramthiessen8749
      @abramthiessen8749 5 років тому +1

      @@_Diana_S Good idea.

  • @st105900
    @st105900 5 років тому

    I loved this talk!!

  • @TheLilboy6
    @TheLilboy6 4 роки тому

    What a great speech, thanks a lot

  • @citiesskyscrapers4561
    @citiesskyscrapers4561 5 років тому +3

    Great talk. Really interesting, educational and entertaining.

  • @JanBaars
    @JanBaars 7 років тому +56

    bike lanes in New York are still horrible compared to what we do in Holland

    • @sorrowandsufferin924
      @sorrowandsufferin924 4 роки тому +10

      I've been to Utrecht recently.. The amount of bikes is ridiculous. Never thought I'd experience bike traffic before. That is amazing

    • @greenmachine5600
      @greenmachine5600 3 роки тому

      Help us improve it then

    • @majacovic5141
      @majacovic5141 2 роки тому +1

      @@greenmachine5600 watch the channel Not Just Bikes

  • @thisisbs808
    @thisisbs808 5 років тому

    Wow, very interetsing talk! Honolulu desperately needs this guy!

  • @simyk810
    @simyk810 4 роки тому

    Thanks Jeff, this is informative indeed!

  • @angelic8632002
    @angelic8632002 7 років тому +41

    Welcome to Europe?
    Seriously though. Good talk. More like this please :)

  • @frankhooper7871
    @frankhooper7871 5 років тому +112

    "people drive faster on wider streets" - the Dutch know this well and intentionally narrow streets to slow traffic down.

    • @sorrowandsufferin924
      @sorrowandsufferin924 4 роки тому +2

      The dutch also take the danger of being run over by bikes instead, at least in smaller cities (or is this just a thing in Utrecht? or in parts of the cities?)

    • @stijn4771
      @stijn4771 4 роки тому +15

      @@sorrowandsufferin924 I'd rather live in a good quality city with the occasional dodging of a cyclist (which is actually a good thing, cause that means that people are meeting eachother and that the city is bruising), than in a low quality city such as the examples this man gave in the talk, where everyone never meets anyone in the street as everyone travels by car.

    • @sorrowandsufferin924
      @sorrowandsufferin924 4 роки тому +1

      @@stijn4771 Wasn't criticizing the occasional cyclist, I was merely remarking upon the paradox of jamming the streets with bikes so much that the only benefit is an early grave from burnout because no-one gets anywhere anymore on these filled-to-the-brim-with-bikes-streets :D

    • @stijn4771
      @stijn4771 4 роки тому +1

      @@sorrowandsufferin924 Haha, then I must have misunderstood your point. In that case, yes, (especially) Amsterdam is a crowded place considering cyclists. You'll get a burnout before you can arrive at your destination XD

    • @funnymanatwork
      @funnymanatwork 4 роки тому

      I'll still drive fast, the dutch can't tell me what to do!

  • @DaDenzelWashington
    @DaDenzelWashington 7 років тому

    Good ideas. Natural protection for sidewalks and narrowing streets to bring down speeds. I'm advising my municipal on accessibility and we are currently adjusting the city to be more friendly to people with disabilities. Surely will use this.

  • @brittanyhumphreys3250
    @brittanyhumphreys3250 3 роки тому

    So interesting! Thanks for sharing this insight.

  • @narayanbabu5323
    @narayanbabu5323 7 років тому +12

    thank you this helped me in SimCity and cities skylines

    • @Koellenburg
      @Koellenburg 6 років тому +2

      me too, it works surprisingly well :) .... just keep the industry away from the residental zone^^

  • @MrElectricVibration
    @MrElectricVibration 7 років тому +7

    If it can be done then i consider this a worthwhile investment.
    Mostly for the health benefits of walking instead of sitting and air pollution levels dropping close to homes.
    Having little shops come back to life is a pretty nice bonus 2 :).

  • @ItzJul
    @ItzJul 7 років тому

    This is like the best video. I agree on 100%

  • @ThecodbroZ11
    @ThecodbroZ11 5 років тому

    Inspirational talk !

  • @Ritaaw1
    @Ritaaw1 4 роки тому +3

    I live in Tampere, Finland. We have a small airport outside the city and there is buses and taxis that can take you there. I found it funny when I saw american tourists hire a car for such a walkable city with good transportation system. Hiring a car in Tampere is not necessary unless you are going to a national park or a small village far away, which I´m hoping they got the car for.

  • @luizaugustoprado1358
    @luizaugustoprado1358 7 років тому +48

    i discovered it playing sim city 2000.

  • @thelastoddman901
    @thelastoddman901 3 роки тому

    I would love to sit all day to listen to his lecture.

  • @ryanstanley640
    @ryanstanley640 4 роки тому

    Great speaker.

  • @oleksandraverchenko9920
    @oleksandraverchenko9920 3 роки тому +4

    Check Soviet Union block planning. Everything you need is in 5 minutes from your apartment by foot. Kindergarden, School, Store, Hospital e.t.c.

  • @Raven.flight
    @Raven.flight 5 років тому +9

    Interesting video. As an avid cyclist I'm interested in anything that increases cycle friendly cities. I have always thought that a strong 'share the road' advertising campaign would work well, but I'm seeing what he means where 'every lane is a bike lane' means 'no lane is a bike lane'. Yeah, I might brave it, but most people wont, and you have to get a critical mass effect to reduce risk of injury.
    Bike lanes are definitely the way to go, but they also have to be real bike lanes, not afterthoughts. The bike lane that is full of road refuse because it never gets swept (because, well, we didn't really mean it, we only want to clean where the cars go) or buckled due to tree roots just push cyclists back onto the road, and then the drivers are pissed off because the cyclists 'aren't using the bike lane'.

  • @saranbhatia8809
    @saranbhatia8809 2 роки тому

    Great talk !

  • @ffrreeddyy123456
    @ffrreeddyy123456 5 років тому

    I love hearing my local area referenced. I grew up outside Portland and always wondered what others meant by a city block, they bigger then my hometown blocks, but not much. NY would be a different story.

  • @durpface1087
    @durpface1087 7 років тому +624

    When you play too much cities skylines.

    • @mengyugao8050
      @mengyugao8050 6 років тому +49

      We as players never build cities for people in that game... With 12 lanes wide expressway and AI only uses 2 lanes

    • @magnushmann
      @magnushmann 6 років тому +42

      I'm danish, so I always build cities with tons of public transport options, pedestrian paths and bike lanes everywhere, mixed plot type layout, interesting street layouts and only with the road size necessary. Basically how cities in Denmark are or will be. This yields very good results in the game.

    • @mengyugao8050
      @mengyugao8050 6 років тому +21

      Yes, and the danish way is how you should build cities. People in real life and in Skyline are looking for the fastest option. If EXPRESSway is the answer, than your city will be congested. With other options being faster, there won't be congestion.

    • @Rallarberg
      @Rallarberg 6 років тому +11

      "Too much"? I don't understand.

    • @jayturner5242
      @jayturner5242 6 років тому +4

      Build 2 lanes then.

  • @GenJotsu
    @GenJotsu 7 років тому +4

    Knowledge is power. Ignorance is bliss. You choose.

  • @549231
    @549231 Рік тому

    This is fascinating.

  • @Agent99M
    @Agent99M 7 років тому

    Really enjoyed this. For me the missing element from the talk especially in the context of the dominance of the car was the importance of public transport to (or closer to) the city.

  • @liuton2005
    @liuton2005 7 років тому +48

    I guess this guy is super good at Sim City.

    • @Koellenburg
      @Koellenburg 6 років тому

      fun Fact here.. the Standard Sim City 5 road had already four lanes :D

    • @gabrieljardine
      @gabrieljardine 4 роки тому

      guess not. Sim City and most of the cities simulators don't give points to some human values, as far as i know.

    • @KrishnaSharma-nx9dy
      @KrishnaSharma-nx9dy 2 роки тому

      @@gabrieljardine city skyline does

  • @sarcasmo57
    @sarcasmo57 6 років тому +218

    I miss my time back in China, everything I needed was within walking distance. No suburbia except for the super rich, mostly empty investment homes anyway.

    • @cluengove
      @cluengove 6 років тому +1

      lol

    • @guendoff2400
      @guendoff2400 5 років тому

      shanghai is amazing

    • @grondhero
      @grondhero 5 років тому +7

      Do you miss the 50 lane highways where traffic can be backed up for days?

    • @grondhero
      @grondhero 5 років тому +1

      @@pixiepandaplush I'm certain those 50 lane highways don't keep everything in walking distance, though. ;)

    • @OBSMProductions
      @OBSMProductions 6 місяців тому

      @@grondhero Dude they got high speed rail now (although I've heard the station placements/land use isn't the best)

  • @brushfuse
    @brushfuse 4 роки тому

    Very interesting and succinct talk.

  • @cirvis240
    @cirvis240 7 років тому

    This was a surprisingly great video!

  • @thereprehensible435
    @thereprehensible435 6 років тому +3

    15:00
    "How swoopy is that curve...?"
    Whoa buddy, that blacksoot engineering garble flew a little high over muh head.

  • @a7i20ci7y
    @a7i20ci7y 5 років тому +11

    Decentralizing commercial space is difficult when Amazon and Walmart have destroyed all the small businesses.

    • @OBSMProductions
      @OBSMProductions 6 місяців тому

      Euclidean zoning really back that up also.

  • @EduArchs
    @EduArchs Рік тому

    superbe talk

  • @producertanfolyam7055
    @producertanfolyam7055 5 років тому

    Dear Jeff, your work is amazing, and I hope you come to Budapest one day too! Can you please put the bikelanes on the sidewalk? It is so much more safe to bike there. (And the air is also so much better). - I have bike experience in Amsterdam and in Budapest. Best, Barney

  • @dicksliced
    @dicksliced 6 місяців тому +2

    Finally someone who talks fast enough to keep me interested

  • @georglp3006
    @georglp3006 5 років тому +9

    I suddenly really feel like playing Cities Skylines

  • @mollyskittles4499
    @mollyskittles4499 6 років тому +4

    This is the most ted talkiest Ted talk ever

    • @sorrowandsufferin924
      @sorrowandsufferin924 4 роки тому

      Nice to hear you know what this is. I have, frankly, no idea of the concept, I simply like a couple of these. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I like Ted Talks, even though I don't know what Ted Talks are

  • @hemmel777
    @hemmel777 4 роки тому

    That last one was great

  • @nettlescats3796
    @nettlescats3796 6 років тому

    The Convention Center and Freeway Park had a similar effect for downtown in Seattle. It exists over I-5.

  • @bogbog
    @bogbog 4 роки тому +7

    Meanwhile me living in an underdeveloped country:
    *Cries in Sri Lankan*

  • @freddylubin
    @freddylubin 7 років тому +3

    It's really a shame to see what's happening to Hanoi, one of my favorite cities, as more and more people buy cars, rather than the minibikes which fit in well with a walkable city.

  • @LeonidasGGG
    @LeonidasGGG 7 років тому +2

    This was an amazing talk... It even had pictures! Great TED. #Ilikepictures #Ineedpicturestounderstandstuff

  • @lochinvar00465
    @lochinvar00465 5 років тому +1

    Speaking of narrow streets in residential zones; I'm on one and even though it is posted as "no parking" on one side people still do because they are parking two or more cars and only one will fit in their driveway. Technically they could get a ticket for that, but I have yet to see it. With a car parked on one side, traffic is narrowed to one lane width at that spot, we just live with it.