How Much Did They Change Faust In Guilty Gear Strive?
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- Опубліковано 22 жов 2024
- #guiltygear #guiltygearstrive #fightinggames
One critique that was made about Guilty Gear Strive by veterans was that characters were stripped of tools, removing the essence of the character. I decided to compare the Guilty Gear XRD and Guilty Gear Strive versions of Faust to see how they treated the character in the transition.
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Swapping out doors for scarecrow was interesting. It feels like a downgrade in neutral but an upgrade for combo purposes.
Doesn't really matter because Door is useless in neutral if you just upback FD whenever you see him doing it, it beats every option (though I assume this also does so in Strive as well)
They’ll never expect the 3rd HS Scarecrow………..but I think it’s more reliable imo but I’ll have to test Xrd again
While I understand Arcsys simplifying characters and removing a lot of specific tech, I still hope they give Faust the ability to FD cancel for the sake of it looking funny.
I have a feel that xrd faust in particular is not an item throw character. He has item throw and it's quite strong (compared to strive, but much weaker than plus r) but it's not his strongest feature. He's the strongest on offense, his combo pogo combos can easily give 200 damage in corner. In Strive he's a committed item throw archetype, he has no air movement, his ground normals are honestly not one of the strongest in the game. In Xrd, the matchups I personally hate the most are the ones where I MUST rely on items to gain advantage in neutral (eg vs axl and even millia), while the easiest matchups for me are where items can be largely ignored or is a detriment if read and punished (like chipp, johhny or ky). if he had kept his fdc in Strive I feel he would still be able to stick to this gameplan to a lesser extent, he would have less damage, no vortex, but getting up close close would actually be possible and more rewarding for him.
@Konakon izumi read again.
@Konakon izumi Did you read the comment correctly? They're talking about Xrd, where Faust was high tier and Milia was mid at worst.
Which makes it all the weirder that they put an item that's just "Faust loses neutral" into the pool in Strive(though he can get in a bit easier in recent parches)
i think strive wants players to focus on the characters unique neutral gameplay more. however the community still hasn’t completely caught on to this and judges every character on the same parameters leading to characters being misjudged as bad or lamenting how much their character has changed in a game that has basically been changed completely. I’m excited for future patches and the meta being fleshed out more.
it never seems to brought up that while Faust can throw out infinite items, what items can be on the screen at one time is limited. you can only throw a new meteor after the last one has stopped existing on the screen same with trumpet and mini faust. so the more you pull the more limited the item pool becomes. your usually winning at that point so this is more a comment on an interesting mechanic of the move.
They murdered my boy.
They drained him of all life and got rid of the butt poke! The best fighting game special of all time :(
as someone who main'd Faust in EVERY game till Strive... I had to move to Potemkin when I finally started using Faust in Strive. I REALLY miss pogo and I hate scarecrow as a replacement for the door warps. it's so slow and dangerous compared to the doors I feel. and Mix x3 ehhhhh pain... BUT, I'm really not that great at the older games and had a really basic gameplan with Faust that revolved around confusing my opponent more than anything else. even with infinite items, I can't play Faust the way I did in Rev compared to Strive, thus me moving on to Potemkin instead.
Sidenote: great video going over all this stuff btw. very informative. I didn't even know Faust lost some of this stuff (again, pretty casual player here).
An important thing to note is that the afro state given by the command grab and afro item allow for faust to do instant overheads via j.k and j.2k.
so they took away his ability for instant overheads consistently, he needs to have them set up.
Unfortunately that doesn’t work on a few characters, though
J2K isn’t a overhead in strive
@@goldblooded2007 jk is an overhead and it combos into j2k
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I love Item throw character, if they are in a game I instantly main them
Helium is a haha-funny move unless your against a Jam.
😂
now that i think about it, afro is basically there in the place of fdc j2k, instead of being able to instant overhead whenever you want, you get it as a reward for command grabbing/opponent taking the item
I feel like Mix Mix Mix is the replacement for Pogo stance and Going My Way. Since these are both basically combo tools in Xrd (although GMW has some other uses), just having MMM as the combo tool makes the movelist a lot less intimidating for newer players, even if old players do lose some swag combo opportunities.
Good video btw.
Idk, I think pogo wasn't too hard to understand, and if they removed the charged flower and just had the base flower launch up like in X2 it would be quite easy to learn. It also want just for combos but also safer offense, like not completely safe on with a blockstring but at least not getting immediately punished for using it in pressure like MMM is.
Maybe it's just me, but his teleport feels slower/more vulnerable in Strive than in previous GGs. The big visible scarecrows giving away the possible positions in advance of activation just seems to invite mashing through it vs the mystery of not knowing what's coming until he suddenly walks in through the door from nowhere/drops out of the sky.
I'm not a Faust main, though, and I know using this without some kind of setup isn't a great idea anyway. Just my impression that it feels like a less effective version of the same tool outside of PRCing it into throw.
I'm not sure if it's slower, however it's much more telegraphed for sure
Great analysis.
I don't know what Arc's version plans are with Strive, but if they eventually expanded some character move lists, I hope someone in development finds this series and considers them in the design process.
Particularly the point on the impact ease of movement has on defensive play.
The capabilities of fast characters to safely close space and counter play options could be a good way to reinvent something like the pogo stance.
They did mention they do plan on adding specials to character but we don't know when or if that will happen
Algorithm comment(Algorithm triggering babbel Algorithm triggering babbel)
God, so true
She comment on my algorithm till I SEO
@@AshGray2520 She SEO on my algorithm till she make me comment
I just don’t agree
Like for seo
“You're gliding like a bird or a swan or something”
A Raven, perhaps?
One of the biggest differences is the utility of item toss. In the old guilty gear games, he uses it as a safe way to end pressure and also get an item on screen. In strive, item throw is death on block and incredibly punishable. He has no good special cancels like in the old games, so he’s also forced to just end with the normal on block often times
I wouldn't say it's totally safe, some of the item pulls people do are just knowledge checks (like 6p). fS and 2h vary by character I would say. But for sure it is far far safer than Strive's item throw.
I think too having pogo helps with some option variance, where in Strive since you don't have to worry about tornado really unless he has meter, the counterplay to item throw is much easier.
@@LordKnightfgc 6p in xrd is VERY delayable, when you can hit\block confirm it, it becomes a deadly frametrap, ch pogo leads to easy 200+ damage midscreen on most of the cast, without meter, if you're gamer it will also give kd afterwards. in strive if you 6p there is not much choice, most 2Ks will beat mixmixmix and cancel into item throw is like -30, if they have meter they will have a guaranteed punish with overdrive.
Love your content, Lk. There a few players that have your experience and even fewer that can put turn that experience into entertaining content.
I hate how they took his Dive Kick Cancel away from him because it did help. I also hate that he doesn't have the old version of Mix, Mix, Mix. Wish he had both Version of Mix to be honest. And Spear Point Centripetal Force.
I just want my pogo and FD instant overhead back Sadge
Random items require a lot of skill to take the full advantage of. It's about instantly reacting to the random items and acting accordingly. The skill ceiling is high. It's the best kind of randomness that actually adds depth.
Going back and playing xrd Faust that felt like overwhelming power. I literally turned to my friend and said “no man should have this much power”. Keep in mind I only played Strive Faust
I know he's actually stronger in Xrd, but losing the ability to throw multiple items and to fight over bombs felt so bad.
Most of my favorite faust moments have come from weird interactions involving multiple items at the same time.
Faust has been my main since guilty gear XX, I just LOVE his move set, I love his play style and his unique role in the series. I dedicated many years to mastering his moves and making him a force to be reckoned with. One of my favorite moves is the doors. It’s a very good move to use when you get stuck in a corner and an incredible way to confuse and throw off your opponent. And because there are three different directions you can use the doors for it really is one of the best moves he has in his repertoire. I challenge ANYONE to try Faust and fully master his moves and try to say he’s just a “gimmick” character.
I only played +R and Xrd for a few months before Strive came out, and I was just learning fighting games in general at the time, so I didn't get into a lot of the advanced stuff like FD cancels. But even though he's obviously stronger in the older games, I honestly prefer Strive Faust's design. I like getting to throw tons of items at once. It makes for some really interesting situations and interactions and doing a combo with multiple items feels incredible to pull off. I also really like the command grab change. Yeah, he can't do instant overheads whenever he wants, but it makes them feel more earned, and there's a lot of fun stuff you can do with pressure when you have the lit afro on a timer leading to a guard crush or a combo starting/extending hit. Mix Mix Mix is still janky as hell, but I like that it gives you options like crossups, loops, and can sometimes be a useful movement option. He's still probably one of the weaker characters in Strive, but I think he's in a really good place right now, he's definitely competitively viable (especially if you're not trying to win EVO) and he's fun as hell to play, and that's all I really want from a main.
Dope video as always. By far the best FGC UA-camr. Do you think you could do a look at how to win with “low tier” characters? I know you played Millia who most people think are low tier.
@Lordknight random question - which headset do you use? Do you recommend it?
I remember thinking the item toss changes were very emblematic of Strive vs old GG when the game came out.
Characters get to do their signature moves and play patterns more often in exchange for making it more interactable, and that has largely remained true for Strive redesigns. I specially love how that manifests in Eddie summons.
I just wish I could press f.s 236p with no repercussions like Xrd
I'm gonna be real, the reason Faust got a lot of complaints at the beginning of Strive is because legacy Faust players literally are not used to playing a character who isn't top 5. Faust has been top 5 in literally every version of Guilty Gear pre-Strive, so when he wasn't, they started complaining like he was murdered in front of them. Same for Millia tbh, she has been meta relevant in every version pre-Strive, which is probably why a certain subset of her players are so, shall we say, "vocal" about her strength
Nah Faust was legitimately really bad at the start of Strive. He's fine now but originally he was kinda bad at everything except item toss, which on it's own couldn't really win a match unless you were spamming meteors or something. Now the rest of his kit is decent enough that he can capitalize on item throws in ways that aren't "throw another item and pray it isn't Trumpet"
@@Yinlock470 He wasn't good but if you looked at the complaints from legacy Faust players, it was quite clear that part of their upsetness was the shock of playing a char that wasn't godlike
@bone3940 he had no disjoints and was the only character in the game without a 3 frame jab. People could literally just fall out of his mmm and also he had the only super in the game that reset to the middle of the screen and couldn't break the wall. He was unreasonably awful.
@@bambadep There are only two character in Strive right now that have 3 frame moves, what are you talking about? Also, no disjoints doesn't automatically mean bad. He was the worst in the game, but he could still win.
i don't know if anyone talked about this but faust does still have an instant overhead set up. i don't remember the exact specifics of it but a sol player showed me it in training mode after kicking my ass at momocon last year ^^;
Do you mean when he applies afro to the opponent? His offense gets a lot meaner once he gets afro on the opponent.
He also has some Roman cancel shenanigans that let him do quick overheads but that's less impressive since most characters get strong offensive abilities when they have meter
LK, how do you access the closet behind your bed?
There is a warp pad off screen that gives me access, don't worry
As handy as it is, I'd trade 236S for more items. I miss drum can and black hole.
+R Items are borderline criminal with Mini Robo Ky and Mini Potemkin.
Would be cool to see Axl, since he went from high tier in the xx games to bot tier in both xrd and strive
Axl is definitely not bottom right now in Strive. He simultaneously got better at pressure and confirms in the current patch with safe confirms that lead to high damage.
Also he was definitive mid tier in Xrd. He just looked garbage because he got bullied hard by top tiers, but conversely made life living hell for the lower tiers. Technically mid tier balance, but in a very undesirable way.
Idk I can call Axl a bottom tier when he can effectively dominate a good chunk of the cast. Closest he was to being bad was at launch when he had just the shittiest defense (literally couldn't Nago's command grab at all) but then they gave him the most obnoxious 2K in the game.
After playing both games extensively I can definitely say strive faust feels more rigid in how you have to play him
Faust is not bottom tier, the brains of mere mortals are not capable of understanding his power just yet.
horn honestly should just be removed. Faust in this game isn't strong enough to justify him having an item that basically loses neutral for him.
bring back sidewinder
I’m with you but idk how it would fit within strive. But please arcsys give something fun to sol.
As a Sol player, having to choose between dustloops and sidewinder loops would be an impossible decision that I would love to make
@@Scrimbus_McBimbus the answer is +r
Sidewinder is worthless
No
As a new fighting game player strive is has been a great entry point but the old games seems too complex for me, esp as a faust main
Definitely can understand. Old GG is highly developed so it can be tough for sure, but if you start slow and take it at your own pace you can do it. Every character has some simple strong thing they do, so start there and build from that.
adored this video
The way I feel about a lot of legacy characters in Strive can best be summed up as an example of Theseus's Ship. How many changes, tweaks, adjustments, replacements, and removals can a character endure before they are no longer the character they once were? Some got it worse than others, but it's never a good thing to feel disconnected from a play-style and character you fell in love with in a series that is among your favorites, to essentially be estranged within your own home. That's how my friend put it when he dropped the game a few months back. He was a Testament main in XX and a Sin player in Xrd. His two favorite characters are completely alien to him now. I get that ArcSys and Daisuke wanted newer players to enjoy their game, but if it's at the expense of those that kept it alive for all of these years, then I don't really consider that a good trade.
Daisuke kept it alive. Guilty Gear should've been a dead franchise if it wasn't kept alive by Daisuke despite it repeatedly being a commercial failure for decades.
Blazblue alone beat it on every metric. GG fans are objectively not worth appealing to.
I can't tell you how weird it was to play Xrd and have Ram actually take execution to play. Now I know why her previous mains hated her so much in Strive.
While Strive made some good strives (pardon the pun) by simplifying some of the more obnoxious mechanics such as variable wakeup timing, YRCm etc... I will say that I found the previous games more fun to play because it felt like I had more to do. The only character in Strive that makes me want to go into the lab and master his stuff is Zato. Every other character I got bored with very quickly after trying, except Nago but he got boring after a while because I was just doing the same stuff over and over again.
@@HellecticMojo So it's the fault of my friends and me that this niche series struggled through the fighting game drought in the mid '00s and that it was overshadowed by the revival brought about by SFIV, or that Daisuke nearly tanked the series with Overture? Did you ever think that perhaps Capcom's slump allowed for ArcSys to gain ground over the years? But no, you choose to echo "it is the fans' fault for not loving it enough." That has to be one of the stupidest, laziest, and most spiteful sentiments I've seen regurgitated over the years.
@@000wolf Nah, it's Daisuke's fault for continuing to go for what GG fans wanted to be about. Definition of insanity and all that with continuous repetion of a failing project and wondering why there's no success. After all Blazblue existed in that time and consistently done better than GG in every iteration. Overture has nothing to do with tanking of the franchise. No one even played overture to the point that it left no mark on the franchise. Might as well say Dust Strikers or Petit or Isuka or whatever thing I'm forgetting sunk the franchise if you just want to point fingers endlessly. In order for a franchise to sink, it needs to be floating in the first place, and GG really wasn't that. XRD with its critically acclaimed presentation still couldn't breach the market besides keeping Arcsys alive as a mercenary development company for other IPs. Internal IP was still Blazblue and external IPs for their money makers.
@@servebotfrank4082 have you tried jack-o tho
Pls do a similar video with Bridget. My girl was robbed with her strive versión
I actually don't know much about Bridget since her last appearance was +R haha
I'm also on the camp of hating on item toss characters. Adding a factor of randomness is pretty frustrating to deal with so I'm kinda glad Faust isn't as strong as in previous titles. Thanks for the video LK!
12:08
Enough to trigger me. Just a little.
Never understood the "laust" meme.. like he isnt the strongest in strive but he's def not bottom pick either o_o
He was near Anji level for a year so it stuck and will likely stick until he swings to other side of the competitive spectrum.
He was pretty bad on release. His reversal super was the slowest in the game and literally could not break the wall. He barely had any disjoints. His items were less threatening. His blockstrings were less safe. His dive kick was extremely risky. And he did very little damage and couldn’t convert well. He’s in a much, much better place now.
Cover may next please she changed a lot
THE GOAT UPLOADED AGAIN
ABCDEF GO
Finally someone acknowledged Faust exist
This is probably a unpopular opinion but I think taking away moves and specials or changing them was a good call as most of the cast still play the same as in past games
Absolutely no shot most of the cast plays the same. That's so fucking cap lol. Chipp is fast but that's about it. The way he actually plays, feels, and what he actually is doing is very different. This goes for most of the cast. Sol is a character that actually is kinda similar. But not really in soms ways, he doesn't do midrange the same way at all. Which I wanna say is partly why Romolla doesn't play him anymore. A character as simple as Sin just lost any semblance of sauce he had. Yeah he still plays neutral and a similar range, but my God he became so lame and less interesting. All around the board things are different due to major system changes.
no riot stamp = trash game, t. boomer
@@dickkickem7067 riot stamp is cool but it’s also bad but I also hate/like it
unpopular opinion? more like factually wrong.
Different tool set but most chars definitely are doing the same stuff imo. I think the two characters that are probably the biggest departures are Ramlethal and Jack-O.
Comment
War crime ass character fr
i hate any character that has any sort of RNG on it. its bad to play as and against.