Spa Electrical Basics
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Basic information on how to hookup your electrical for a spa or hot tub. Each tub may be slightly different, please consult a qualified electrician. However, this is pretty standard. The bigger wires go into the 240v double pole breaker. The smaller white and black wires go into the 120v single pole breaker.
This is for informational purposes only! I will not be held liable for your stupidity for not consulting a licensed electrician.
Wow! Wow! This is a good reason to why always to cross reference any UA-cam video for correct knowledge. You missed wire the the Gfi breaker, with the neutrals. If you are going to cut corners on your own house....just make it safe, but dont put it as a tutorial on UA-cam. God bless don't get shocked
2:25 "Has to be 5"." No, it has to be between 5' and 50' from the water surface of the hot tub N.E.C. 2018. No closer than 5, no further than 50.
dude, you wired the GFI breaker wrong. the load neutral should be on the breaker, its going to the neutral bar
If I were you I would find an electrician's video this guy has no business doing a how to video
Im a industrial electrican its a decent video few rookie mistakes but Its cleaner than a lot of home jobs i seen in my day. Good job bud
Informative video. A few observations. You mention that a gfci measures voltage difference in and out. It actually measures current difference. I'm also unclear as to why you replaced the 60 amp breaker with the 30 amp. As you mention, the breaker is sized to protect the wire. That means the 60 amp gfci protects your #6 wires, and the 20 amp protects what I'm assuming is #12 wire. If you overload (including a fault) either circuit individually the breaker will trip to protect the wire from overheating and melting the insulation or causing a fire. The 60 amp breaker in your main panel should be protecting the wire going from the main to the spa sub panel which you mention is also #6. If your combined load of your 2 circuits exceed 60 amps it will protect that wire and trip at the main. It isn't unsafe or bad to replace that gfci 60 amp with a gfci 30 amp, but it doesn't make the situation any safer. It just means that the breaker will trip 30 amps below the capacity of the wire it protects. What I would have done is leave it as is unless I wanted to add more load out at the sub panel (in the form of another circuit, or replacing the hot tub with a larger one that actually draws close to 60 amps). Then you would have to replace the 60 amp breaker in the main panel with something larger AND run larger wire from the main to the sub to handle the increased load. The breakers in the sub would still be fine and would be properly sized for the wires they protect.
You are allowed to oversize your wires per code. I used 6awg wire from the sub panel to my tub. The tub only requires a 30amp breaker. So, I could have ran smaller wires (10awg) but I had 6awg on hand. I also believe there is code about any ungrounded conductor the other conductors have to be of the same size. Basically I had 6awg on hand.
@@photokendall yep yep. That makes sense to use the wire you have on hand. Did you have the 30 amp gfci on hand as well? If so, I get why you might as well install it if you can use that 60 amp breaker somewhere else more useful. You just mention that you went out and bought the 30 amp to replace the 60 amp and I didn't understand why you spent that money when the 60 amp would protect the #6 just fine.
@@josephs7445 because the components in the hot tub also need to be protected, the components in the hot to require a 30amp breaker, if you had the 60amp breaker instead of the 30 amp and something was to go wrong with the hot tub components it wouldn't trip the breaker using a 60 amp(unless it was shorted). So basically the 220v side to the tub requires a 30 amp breaker to protect the components, this means you can use 10awg wiring because it is rated for 30 amps. I decided to upsize and use 6awg wire because it's what I had on hand.
Hopefully that makes more sense. Each hot tub manufacturer will have its own requirements of what breaker size they recommend, you then size your conductors accordingly.
S
Good explanation. Even though the wire from your sub to hot tub is oversized you definitely want the breakers amp ratings in sub panel to match what the hot tub requires, if you had stuck with the original two pull 60 amp when your tubs max is two 30 amps both hot legs ran from the sub to tub would handle it fine and trip at 60 amps but the hot tub wiring/components would burn the hell up first if they never reach 60 amps when a problem causes an overload situation. Mainly repeating this because it helps me remember these things easier. Lol
How come no one noticed that this is a new installation, so it is all his work. Second he added the 60am 2pst GFCI breaker in that panel and THEN!!! ran and connected #12 THHN to the Hot tub and wants to change it out to a 30a 2pst GFCI breaker without updating the Conductors to #10 at least. Plus run the Sealtite under the hot tub at it's closest location to the disconnect. Did anyone see any Grounding Conductors? This man needs to hire a pro and not put himself and family in danger.
Do not use drills on panels or any kind of terminating people...
SumOfIt i use the clutch on my drill sometimes haha
@SumOfIt What is the Torque value of breaker terminals? Pretty hard to Torque the screws without a Handheld Torque Screwdriver. Otherwise you are not very professional.
Oh..I been doing it wrong...I been using a welder machine to connect the neutrals and grounds to the bars..😲🏃💥⚡
Your 60a breaker from the house is feeding the 60 amp disconnect which then feeds the 20 amp gfi that goes to the hot tub. Or am I wrong
This is why I’ll have a pro do my tub
or figure out how much you love your family vs upping their life insurance and telling them all to enjoy a nice soak 👀😱🤣
The 60 Amp breaker plus de 20 Amp breaker would NOT break at 80 Amps! .- ( They are in separate circuits) In an overload, any of the 60 Amp breakers whether at the garage panel or at the spa site will trip first, while the 20 Amp breaker will trip independently with a 117 AC overload.. Do not place the box "were is convenient" follow the code!.
I thought code was in sight but no closer than 5 feet?
That is correct. I did state 5' from tub in the video but your clarification is spot on.
@@photokendall thanks for responding.
@@photokendall backpedaling champ
I thought, *No less than 5 feet or greater than 15' ". Exception: If closer than 5 feet, a mechanical barrier (Wall or likewise) is separating the sub from tub's location (Making it not physically reachable to a person seating in the tub, to play with the box and electrocute all.
Rule of thumbs is ...You should not be able to touch the Hot Tub /Spa and the Electrical Panel at the same time..
Me being a licensed electrician l could criticize this video a lot but I will limit it. First of all the 60amp breaker in your main panel is not a double throw breaker it is a double pole single throw breaker (DPST). The other thing is that #6 cu wire is not large enough for a 60amp breaker. Just remember the wire always determines the size of the circuit.
Please elaborate. You can always running a larger conductor on a smaller circuit. The conductor is sized to your breaker size. I haven't been an electrician for 10 years, but I have never ran into an issue where up sizing conductors was ever an issue. Yes it puts more resistance on the circuit etc, but for practical use cases this is a non issue in residential. When your talking motors and other things using 3 phase sure. However this video had nothing to do with that. Using a 30amp breaker and a 6 Guage is a non isssue...
In this video the breaker in his MAIN panel is a 60amp and he said that it was #6 feeding his sub panel. This breaker protects the conductors from the main to the sub which means it should be a 50amp breaker.
@@wendellmurphy5249
What state and code are you using.... 60 amp and #6 wire is the right size. #8 wire is only good for 50 amps. Current rating is per-hundred feet, per wire. If the draw isn't continuous 60amp #6 is fine. You more than likely see people use #4 going from a main panel to sub panel because they don't know how to size correctly. NEC code 310.15(B).
Are you trying to say I should be using a 50amp breaker in the main instead of the 60? Trying to understand what your trying to get across... it's not against code to use a 60amp #6 for a 50 amp sub panel...
I do apologize I spoke to quick, #6 is good for 65amps as long as you are not using types TW or UF. And what I should have said is that the wire determines the maximum size breaker for the circuit.
do not listen to this guy. he has not a clue how electricity works. coming from a red seal electrician, the 60 amp breaker and the 20 amp breaker are FINE.... 20amp plus 60amp do not not actually add up to 80 amps... its meant to interrupt a fault or combined load of 60 Amps. a normal operating tub will not draw even close to 60 amps. its purpose is to interrupt a fault above 60 Amps. and motors will have an in rush current that spikes high at start up and drops during normal operation... (Canadian electrician)
ya i was so confused by comment section until i seen your post to verify i wasnt lost. i was going thru my head like the owner didnt realize he just needed to see what the normal constant amps wld be than see what the start up rush is. ive seen this done wrong before its like
4000watt heater on a single phase wld draw 33.4 amps so 40 amp breaker vs dbl phase 240 thts 16.8 amps. so with a dble pole 30 means only half the amp usage plus start rush? sorry been so long i cant remember math (but i think something high draw like a filament bulb is %10 s0 say 2amps at start safety margine will say 20amps)or i wld just overcompensate what the info plate wld say. but the 60amp breaker at worst wld need max of what 20amps so 1/3 of its max capacity. im only a 2nd yr apprentice at best and havent done the trades professionally in 20yrs very rusty but getting more work during these times (the pros are either to busy or cost to much in these tough times where as i can safely handle these requests. (well if my math is right ) otherwise ill just stick to outlets and lights lol (N. east usa)
I appreciate it that’s cool how hot tub breakers work I’m building one from scratch with concrete blocks and figuring out how to wire it 😎👍
Do not listen to this guy. Trust a pro.
I’m still hung up on the orange painting smeared on the inside of the main panel.
Im sitting here trying to find out why this tub needs 220 and 110.....
Maybe controls use 110 and the motor and heaters may be 220
Stephen Roberson that would just be strange. Even the radio systems in some units don’t require 110v. I have to wonder if the spa box was wired to support both and they just happen to both be turned on even tho the 110v doesn’t have wires coming out.
Edward Sessum hot tubs can have only the heater on, for 110. Alternatively, if you want the heater and the jets on, it would be 220
Mad_ Max but they don’t get wired for both. One or the other.
This is actually how hot spring 110v convertibles are wired. 30amp 240 for heater, 20amp 110 for pump.
Everything mentioned in this video is incorrect , inspector would write this up in a heart beat , neutrals terminated incorrectly , whip longer than 6’ , incorrect breaker for load , and please do not use electric drills in a panel ! GFCI measures 75v through neutral from tub and they “DO NOT TIE ALL TOGETHER” .
Would they? It's been inspected and passed. Sounds like there are either a lot of poorly trained electricians out there or a bunch of keyboard warriors.
photokendall no , lol poorly trained inspectors , city inspectors are not Licensed electricians , only adopt what county / city is for current code . Look up NEC 680 and educate
@@live4545 I appreciate the code reference, however I still dont find any code reference as to what exactly is not to code. The branch circuits and bonding all meet code, the pvc meets code, etc etc. I was an electrician for many years and though it was practice not to use a drill in panels, there is zero code against such a thing. There is annidotal evidence on not using a drill, but zero facts to back that up. That's like saying you can't use a drill to install head studs in an engine. Yes it's practice not to... However, I have installed many head studs in engines using drills and then torquing to spec without any issues.
photokendall the gfci is not terminated correctly , and you can find the answer to why in NEC section 680
@@live4545 Thanks. I don't see anything there. But appreciate the input. I guess if I am doing it wrong so are a lot of others in the industry as the way this is hooked up is standard practice. I quick google search of electrical spa hookup and I found this. www.hottuboutpost.com/hot-tub-electrical-installation-hookup-gfci/ and this www.masterspas.com/documents/240v-electrical-requirements.pdf
Can't you just run the 50 amp gcfi in the main panel and the non gcfi outside?
This dude reminds me of Ricky from Trailer Park Boys.
He sounds like Jacob lmao
So if you have a gfci breaker you dont need a gfci plug? I live in canada. This might be different
I guess he just doesn't care. Be sure to hire a licensed electrical contractor, not just sn electrician. Why? For his liability insurance. He guarantees his work and his employees and he has insurance coverage if snything goes wrong. Your homeowners may not pay off if so omething burns up or someone gets hurt.
No closer than 5ft....
Yup, no closer than 5'
keep touching them bus bars buddy ull learn..
maybe he has and the zaps helped him lol 🤔🤣🤣🤣
Why is a sub panel needed?
Open to interpretation 😂😂😂
Bro , I’m curious did this last, your line wires are way to small .
Works fine. Just sold the house. I use the hot tub 3 times a week. Zero issues.
I mean, it only burst into flames a couple of times. So it's ok. 110, 220, 277, 480, 2300, 4160... whatever it takes.
Jason Allen right! Also the white neutral...
Heard the new family were on the news just days later. Something about multiple electrical fires or something.
Lock out tag out. please I had a resident turn the breaker back on once Thank god a didn't create a path or i would not be here right now.
Lost interest as soon as he started adding the 60 and 20. Common mistake but wrong none the less. Think about it. You have a 200 amp panel yet 42 slots of 20 amp breakers! Do the math.
Knows just enough to fuck shit up and burn the house down 🤣
Based on this guys math I just realized that every service panel in the world is overloaded. Wow.
I think the chance of every breaker running at full load at the same time is very slim. I’m not sure if it’s code where you are, but my load center also has a 200amp main breaker.
@@seanlindy 🔥
@@markwicklund3976 ... using the 80% load on a branch circuit that means a 100 amp panel should only have 6 breakers per side. (12 total) That would also mean a 200 amp panel should max at 24 breakers.... but they don't because code realizes you will never use everything at once.
Yea definitely don’t do anything he says a lot of wrongs here sorry but hopefully you hired someone who can help you out
Y no gfci?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
By code (You seem to like to stick to it, as all should) you must have 4 wires, out of your sub-panel to hot tube, because Neutral (White) is not equal or interchangeable with Ground (Copper) that in case of emergency wont do good, if not installed right. I see no Ground in your sub box. Anyone is invited to comment, kindly, as spread of correct information is the goal here. Stay safe.
not all some do not require neutral
Thank you, very helpful great video
Hey quick question for all you electrical guys here... So I got a 100 amp main panel and ive had a 50 amp double throw breaker running 80' to a sub panel in my garage and ive had a 3 wire #8awg going through 3/4" emt set up goin thats worked great for years. Now i got me a 230 v 5 hp single phase industrial compressor and every time that hog turns on The attic and wall that the main panels on vibrate and buzz like a sum bitch but only for a few seconds then its good. So I hear I need bigger wire so i now have #4 that came outta an industrial building and some 1" ridgid ran now but my question is HOW MANY WIRES TO PULL AND WHAT SIZE? 3 or 4 wire? Oh and sub panels got a 10' earth ground jammed into the ground within 4 ' of sub panel and also its has a wire going to the cold water pipe on the washer and dryer crap just no earth ground on my main no clue why either lol PLEASE HELP THANKS FOR YOUR TIME
So, 230v 5hp... 230v standard is a single power conductor and a nuetral wire. You normally have a ground wire by code to protect yourself. If you pulled in a 4th wire it is usually used for anything that needs to run off 120v. hopefully that helps. We would need to know the amperage of the load to know what sized conductors need to be used. However a #4 would work for a 50 amp load.
Here is a good site to calculate loads/distance and wire sizing. Wire Size Calculator - Paige Wirewww.paigewire.com/pumpWireCalc.aspx
@@photokendall Hey thanks for all your help photokendall yeah so pretty much just said screw it and im going huge and when I say huge im talking #2 awg stranded but not the flimsy crap this stuff is about the same size thats coming in from edison side to my main panel. I figured its been working there so its pretty much like an extension of that right? Now i also have 240' of #4 awg as well only thing is 1 leg of my #4 is kinda shot out from getting caught on crap so I was just gunna use 1 leg of the #2.. Any problem ya see there man I mean it should work just fine right or is it gunna do some crazy stuff like how if you run 1 single hot wire in a 1/2" emt it electrifies the shit outta that conduit kinda thing or should it be a ok? Oh forgot to mention I am not an electrician just a feller wanting to save a buck and learn some stuff thats all ...Oh and have a blast doing it as well !
@@photokendall i ENDED UP RUNNING 2 #4 AWG AND A piece of #2 about 25' long then spliced it in a box and continued running the left over #4 wire i had ...Is there any reason I shouldnt run it like that? IOts been up and running now for about a week and seems fine but if theres a problem with that please let me know buddy . Thanks again for all your help man
@@janegoodall3862 due to the wire size there is going to be a lot more resistance using that wire which means you "may" not get as much current or voltage, but in real world scenario it shouldn't matter. You should be OK. Real world your worried about under sizing conductors because they can heat up and cause a fire.
Without watching or listening to this video the first violation I noticed was the length of the sealtite. Too long, no longer than 6"
6 or 8. 50 amp breaker
Number 6 @ 60 degrees number 8 @ 75
But going from the main panel to the disconnect requires #6awg because of the 60amp breaker inside the main panel.
The breakers only protect wire downstream
Is it just me. Those wires to the breaker are way to small
Could you do a video about hooking it up on the tub side? My wiring diagram mentions blue wires, but I don't have any blue wires!! So I'm a little bit stumped on this little project.
I could, however it's 19 degrees right now, so it won't happen until it warms up s bit.
Blue just means secondary power.the color phrasing order is black red blue.
You can use any color wire, but their ends should be marked with color tape to indicate that they are different poles.
I've seen plenty of A/C installations where they used one color wire for both poles *and* didn't mark the different poles, but that's not as important as making sure the *neutral* is white or its ends are marked white.
I know code applies to the color of neutral being white, but I'm not sure if it's code to mark the different poles. Most electricians do, so just bite the bullet and buy some colored tape.
@@chrissilva5659 this is single *"phrase"* where color isn't as important. We call the two hot wires being on different *"poles"* of the same *"phase"*
2:34 so if your not worried about code. Lol
WOW. So many mistakes. Guys like this offering electrical advice should be banned from UA-cam.
I'm not that savvy with electrician work, but I have studied EE. Pretty sure a GFCI works by comparing current, NOT voltage. A fault means the electrons can escape the circuit. If the circuit doesn't have a fault, the power consumption (or load) of the circuit should drop the voltage. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm a DC guy.
Can you list the mistakes to help some of us watching?
@@MindOfVacuity newer gfi trip at 5 to. @10 milliamp differetial
Why is someone who is obviously NOT an electrician giving advise and pretending to know what he's talking about?? Someone with less skills might try learning from you and end up hurt or killed. Get proper training or teach something you have been trained in and not something dangerous.
He seems more confused than I am to begin with! What he is doing makes no sense , he should just put a disconnect outside
Did you not pull a ground wire?
Yes there is a ground.
They are called Spa Packs.
horrible
Cool stuff
Dude has his white from breaker tied back to the neutral buss bar, the white out of the breaker goes to the hot tub not back to the buss in the box.
Common in hot tub panels is to wire the pigtail to the buss bar *that is isolated from the ground* (there should be two buss bars with one insulated from the panel and one directly on the metal)
Neutral in from the main panel goes to the GFCI doyble pole breaker, neutral pigtail goes to the *neutral* buss bar, and the neutral from the hot tub goes on that same *neutral* buss bar
@@shimes424 Faulty information from an rank amateur...Dont listen to anything this guy has to say. You have one life, pay someone who knows.
breaker has a load neutral connection/white from breaker goes to neutral buss along with neutral ine
🤦🏻♂️😬👎🏼