Really nice video. This was played by the old rules (compared to modern catch wrestling) where submissons did not played a big part (or mostly a part at all) in the game, but it was like a very-very technical freestyle wrestling match. The two youngsters play very-very well, thumb up for them!
@Groundhawggjimenez well said, sir. That's also why you see much longer matches between two equally skilled competitors (ref. Rickson Gracie vs Machado - what an awesome match... Sakuraba vs the Gracies matches... Wallid vs Gracies matches... so on)
At 2:15 there is a slick crotch hold counter by the under man going through the legs. At 2:57 a leg scissor breaks the half Nelson and at 3:04 the under man successfully spins out of a half nelson
addressing some strings in here real quick: CACC has ALWAYS had submissions.. matches were determined by the RULES agreed upon.. best of 3 falls.. no strangleholds.. so-on. since video want around in the "early" days, you don't see legit matches that way.. just training (like this one) or kayfabe fixed matches.
anyone who has questions about CACC early matches can read the scans from Martin Burns, Frank Gotch, Hackenachmidt, etc. matches and how their "falls" aka submissions or pins victories ended.
I would have loved to have seen the greats back then. Even using more of this style today I think would work. Imagine a no submission match between 2 technical wrestlers? However add the ropes with modern day finishers & high flying moves & you've got a nice balance.
Amazing stuff. Those guys were just as athletic back in the day. I can see where it all comes from. I suppose the point of this match was to avoid the pin, rather than going for submissions?
i am a BJJ 3 stripe purple belt been trainin for 5 yearz/ pro mma fighter, those kids looked like good grapplers, when u have 2 grapplers of equal skill n equal weight ,it is not an easy task 2 submit one another, no novice in my opinion!
@ThisSentenceIsFalse Yeah... I think, also, they were not experienced enough for the submissions in this match... probably novices... but I can tell you they move a HELL of a lot better than I do LOL
I've watched many an old Catch match and have yet to see one real match end in submission. Submissions may have been a part of Catch but I've never seen any reliable proof of it. Every book this grappling nerd has studied and every tutorial film I've ever seen, although showing painful holds none of those holds were true submissions rather thy were pins that used pain compliance to insure successfully sticking the shoulders down.
Neither of your statements make any sense I've watched hundreds of old films of old wrestling matches and have NEVER seen even one submission win, if submission was an integral part of Catch as Catch Can(As some would lead us to believe.) then there's no logical explanation for my observations. Shooto has always claimed to be a hybrid style there's no debate amongst the well informed on that issue. Wrestling is a wonderful and practical aspect of fighting that has evolved to a very high level of skill sets, anyone who hasn't studied wrestling deeply is at a disadvantage against one who has, that being said some of the claims bouncing around the internet made by a few entrepreneurs regarding Catch are unfounded and even dishonest.
JudoMateo But I don't really understand your points, that Sakuraba uses a hybrid of fighting moves in his repartee when he fights in MMA? That old wrestling matches have different rule sets compared to MMA? As I understand it they went for pins rather than submissions so there was more of an emphasis on cranks. Josh Barnett and Sakuraba are considered CACC practitioners because they were taught by practitioners whose linage goes back to Billy Riely and the Snake Pit back in wigan. Also, provided I know my history, a great deal of the early Pancrase stars were versed in CACC.
Different scoring from modern day Submission wrestling. No points for back control with hooks. Win by pin. afaik submissions only came about to guarantee a win against hometown judges.
Clearly a demonstration, neither fighter made any attempt to maintain position or go for a finish. And I'm sorry, but that bridging to rollover ain't working on me, that I know for sure. Oh, and was back control with hooks illegal, or what?
Really nice video. This was played by the old rules (compared to modern catch wrestling) where submissons did not played a big part (or mostly a part at all) in the game, but it was like a very-very technical freestyle wrestling match. The two youngsters play very-very well, thumb up for them!
This is what WWE & AEW should do now to solve the empty arena problem lol
What a Savage find, I wish there were more fottage like this, Fare play👍💚🇮🇪
Awesome production job! I I've seen the original, this really adds to it
@Groundhawggjimenez well said, sir. That's also why you see much longer matches between two equally skilled competitors (ref. Rickson Gracie vs Machado - what an awesome match... Sakuraba vs the Gracies matches... Wallid vs Gracies matches... so on)
At 2:15 there is a slick crotch hold counter by the under man going through the legs. At 2:57 a leg scissor breaks the half Nelson and at 3:04 the under man successfully spins out of a half nelson
addressing some strings in here real quick: CACC has ALWAYS had submissions.. matches were determined by the RULES agreed upon.. best of 3 falls.. no strangleholds.. so-on. since video want around in the "early" days, you don't see legit matches that way.. just training (like this one) or kayfabe fixed matches.
What a tough sport; lots of respect.
anyone who has questions about CACC early matches can read the scans from Martin Burns, Frank Gotch, Hackenachmidt, etc. matches and how their "falls" aka submissions or pins victories ended.
This is when it was called wrestling, not sports entertainment, whatever that is.
"sports entertainment" is such a ridiculous term anyway. all sports is entertainment, there are no sports that don't have that aspect to them.
I would have loved to have seen the greats back then. Even using more of this style today I think would work. Imagine a no submission match between 2 technical wrestlers? However add the ropes with modern day finishers & high flying moves & you've got a nice balance.
you see why pro wrestling is how it is now
Amazing stuff. Those guys were just as athletic back in the day. I can see where it all comes from. I suppose the point of this match was to avoid the pin, rather than going for submissions?
There are some CACC instructionals videos made in the 40's. But I don't know where we can find them.
Scientific Wrestling and Snakepit USA have plenty of training DVDs
i am a BJJ 3 stripe purple belt been trainin for 5 yearz/ pro mma fighter, those kids looked like good grapplers, when u have 2 grapplers of equal skill n equal weight ,it is not an easy task 2 submit one another, no novice in my opinion!
My Uncle told me about this to help me with my MMA, I can't wait to use this on people :D
Catch-as-catch-can-catch-a-catch
@ThisSentenceIsFalse Yeah... I think, also, they were not experienced enough for the submissions in this match... probably novices... but I can tell you they move a HELL of a lot better than I do LOL
There were no submissions
fascinating. strange that they never look for a sub/hook. at times they seem wide open
from further reading this was what we would call a flow session. They are practicing getting close to a hold then allow the escape.
yall know this AINT no cacc but just plain GRECO-ROMAN...but it was a cool vid though
I've watched many an old Catch match and have yet to see one real match end in submission. Submissions may have been a part of Catch but I've never seen any reliable proof of it. Every book this grappling nerd has studied and every tutorial film I've ever seen, although showing painful holds none of those holds were true submissions rather thy were pins that used pain compliance to insure successfully sticking the shoulders down.
JudoMateo Josh Barnett (Metamoris 6)... any Sakuraba MMA match (with submissions)... any Minowaman MMA match (with submissions)...
But Shooto is derived from catch wrestling (via pro wrestling) so I don't get your point.
Also Catch matches are scored/woked differently from modern MMA so I don't think you'd see much old school matches ending by submission.
Neither of your statements make any sense I've watched hundreds of old films of old wrestling matches and have NEVER seen even one submission win, if submission was an integral part of Catch as Catch Can(As some would lead us to believe.) then there's no logical explanation for my observations. Shooto has always claimed to be a hybrid style there's no debate amongst the well informed on that issue. Wrestling is a wonderful and practical aspect of fighting that has evolved to a very high level of skill sets, anyone who hasn't studied wrestling deeply is at a disadvantage against one who has, that being said some of the claims bouncing around the internet made by a few entrepreneurs regarding Catch are unfounded and even dishonest.
JudoMateo But I don't really understand your points, that Sakuraba uses a hybrid of fighting moves in his repartee when he fights in MMA? That old wrestling matches have different rule sets compared to MMA? As I understand it they went for pins rather than submissions so there was more of an emphasis on cranks. Josh Barnett and Sakuraba are considered CACC practitioners because they were taught by practitioners whose linage goes back to Billy Riely and the Snake Pit back in wigan. Also, provided I know my history, a great deal of the early Pancrase stars were versed in CACC.
Different scoring from modern day Submission wrestling. No points for back control with hooks. Win by pin. afaik submissions only came about to guarantee a win against hometown judges.
Most folks dont realize these are kids in this video... Hmmm... If this is what the KIDS could do back then... Just sayin....
Fucking hbo logo.
Clearly a demonstration, neither fighter made any attempt to maintain position or go for a finish. And I'm sorry, but that bridging to rollover ain't working on me, that I know for sure. Oh, and was back control with hooks illegal, or what?