One of the greatest voiceactors of all time ladies and gentlemen. The subtle differences between MGS1 colonel and MGS2 colonel are masterful. Thank you for all your work.
G 50 .....in....insecure? I never mentioned anything about myself. The fuck are you talking about. I think you’ve just projected onto me. I was referring to Kojima himself. As in his position (I don’t know exactly how many hours he works, what he has for breakfast or how many times he takes a shit per day) but i assume he works longer hours then most. Got it?
@@theepowerful so you think Tomokazu Fukushima wrote all codec sequences with no input from the the writer, director and producer? You think he just made it up as he went along, contributing the main plot device to the MGS2 story with zero oversight and complete creative freedom. What?
This game anticipated the future. It's years before facebook, and everything JD/GW says is coming to reality in recent years. Fake news, useless informations, and all else. Playing through this game again in 2017 was a terrifyng experience. Not a simple game, a philosophy masterpiece.
+John Doe I think that Tomokazu Fukushima helped keep Kojima's story more relateable, realistic, and useful. This is extremely apparent considering I don't see him credited on mgs4 and mgsV.
True I wasn't implying it was absolutely terrible but I noticed the writing seemed unedited and unpolished like the writer was afraid of criticizing himself but it makes so much sense now since I never knew about this Tomokazu guy. It was much harder to get into the stories that came afterwards for me but I still enjoyed them, the first three games though are just pure art.
I said the same thing. This moment didnt hit me when I first played it.. in 2001 I was 15 years old and a freshman in high school. I had no clue whatsoever about what they were discussing. Now at 32, this all makes sense and its horrifying
@@oceano87 I play this game with 9 or 10 years old (2010 or 11) but in that time i don't have internet in my house so it was like 2000 or 2001 to me so i don't understand anything but the last time in 2017... It was like WTF!!!!!!!! So goddamitt true
Same here I was 13 in 2001 I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about but what I do remember is all the dialogue made me feel stupid as a 13 year old kid. Now fast forward 19 years I’m 32 and come to find out that’s exactly what they were saying. That humans are stupid worthless beings. Man what a great game. I might play it again. Haven’t played it since prolly 2005
I know it's not as important as the speech itself, but I adore the background ambiance played during this codec. It's wonderfully chilling. If it was the speech alone it'd be scary enough, but having a legitimately discomforting "theme" in the background just makes the proximity of the horrific issues seem even closer, even more omnipresent.
I don't get how people are subscribing the themes of this to certain political parties or groups or anything like that - I think what made MGS2 so effective thematically and what makes segments like this so chilling are that they seem less tied to any certain political climate and more to how technology has evolved and how our subjective interpretations of the world beyond us are becoming more and more tailored by outside forces. in a way we're having our food digested for us for convinience, missing out out on the details and the actual nutrition of the content. I don't see this as a left, right, etc. thing - I don't even think the game even really proposes a right answer here. The Patriots by default are antagonists here because of their extreme implementations of their ideology. Isn't that what makes everyone in the Metal Gear series an antagonist? The chilling effect of this is partially due to some of the realities of what the AI is approaching in this codec call, specifically how much more their reality is relatable in 2017 than it was in 2001. Solidus was the antithesis of what the Patriots stand for, but a villain in his own right. I think it's almost silly to put a left-right orientation onto this because it only reaffirms what the Patriots are basically going on about - digesting information and coding it into your own worldview, cutting a square cloth and sewing it neatly into a patchwork set of ideals that may be more or less tailored than the average person, but nevertheless constructed due to outside influence nonetheless. I love this codec call because it feels universally challenging and it leaves you with questions. It's disquieting in how applicable it remains and because it brings to the forefront the constant, droning cognitive dissonance we maintain consuming content in the digital age, more inclined to toss out what may be good information and consume crap because it's more comfortable or because it reaffirms our beliefs. We are all guilty and all we have as reassurance is the partially-constructed voice in our head that tells us we are right, we are logical, we are reasonable, and we do a good job sorting things ourselves.
S Scholex Max sent me here. Reading your comment I think his video explains how this relates to the current political climate. I believe it will answer your question, check it out: ua-cam.com/video/jIYBod0ge3Y/v-deo.html
Verily, thou sayest buckets, op. Check out Robert Anton Wilson/G.I. Guirdgieff (sp?) For an explanation of how everyone is in their own "reality tunnel," and how a lot of what we experience is curated content (creative context according to the GW AI of MGS2) from our ENTIRE nervous system, also now with a layer of computer algorithm selecting what we see in our fb feeds, UA-cam reccomendations, etc. Why has this video suddenly sprung up as a suggestion for multiple people? Its an old video with a small amt of views, but it has new comments- is it from the JRE discussions with Tim Pool and Jack Dorsey? That's what I think led me here. Thats an example of crearive context, although I prefer curated content.
An algorithm automatically flags what is deemed inappropriate on UA-cam. This happens without human interaction, it "watches" content and informs uploaders they have violated guidelines. Why? Because there is simply too much content to be manually reviewed, after being flagged it can be very hard to get to talk to a real human from UA-cam to solve your issue. The program has become too large for it's owners to manage. Same with tweets, Facebook posts, Instagram, etc.
i think this game is the reason i never got into reddit, twitter, and instagram; why i felt so much sorrow on facebook i happily deleted it, why i’ve been alienated from society. i’m free from the prison of group thought but have been cast into a pit of loneliness and in a sense became my own echo chamber. In the search for self i sadly find the deep i dig, the further i lose my individuality and come closer to the real truth, “i am the biproduct of the ideas of better men. my philosophy does not come from within but through the work of others. I am my own worst enemy. i should hate this game. it’s brought endless anxiety and loss of identity, but somehow, i feel i’ve lifted a chain so loosely placed around my neck. i know i have the potential to have my own thoughts. i know that i have power, and by staying away from herd consciousness, i may be able to bring something of value to society
And the truly scary thing is, we still don't understand the full extent of this concept. You couldn't in 2001, you couldn't in 2010, you couldn't in 2019, and you can't in 2021. Let's hope that we never need to know.
@@futurei0oo But what happens after that? How long does the process go on for? Until humanity fades from the face of the Earth? What can we do, if it’s possible, to stop it?
@Moto_Messiah Individualism only works for your sphere of life. To solve this issue will take a bit of man power and a lot of heads on the same problem for.
Look up strategic trends documents. They're starting to come out now, and with ChatGPT/Open AI, they have a better glimpse at the military implications, as well as the societal ones looking into the future. Look up "Strategic Landscape 2050", etc. Also, "Human Augmentation: Dawn of a New Paradigm" from the MoD (Ministry of Defence).
I agree...an individual can't stop what is coming. However, an individual can opt out temporarily...but that's only as good until the moment collectivisation of the planet begins. At that point, every individual will be consumed anyway. To avoid collectization, it's weird, it's like we need transient collectivization to combat permanent collectivization@@product_of_august
Leaving a comment in appreciation of Max Derrat's brilliant riff on your original video essay. I feel like so many people are caught up in the pseudoscience of Kojima's associated world-building to appreciate the deeply human themes he explores in his stories. You did Kojima and his writing team - translators included - an incredible justice with this video alone. I appreciate you creating it. 💛
The AI is faced with the same dilemma all ruling classes is faced by. Namely, are we in power because we know best and therefore should decide for others, or are we just in a lucky spot and therefore our truth isnt more valid than any others? And yes, AI computers are in power...
It took me many years after playing this 10 years ago as a 12 year old to fully grasp and comprehend this discussion in it's entirety. Very deep and VERY thought provoking.
@@mydadispumpingyourmom Did you know that before consoles with internet, there were no patches? If a game was buggy, the publisher had to re release the game out of their own pocket. So devs actually TRIED to thoroughly get rid of bugs and glitches. Weird right?
@@mydadispumpingyourmom probably due to time constraints, games take soooo much longer to create these days, technology hasn’t made it faster to develop! but longer! they just gotta push that sht out the door now since everything else about it is deemed more important. i wouldn’t be surprised if programming has become more complex therefore more opportunities for bugs to appear too. just a thought
I first hated Raiden and MGS2 when I was 13. Now 27 in September 2020 this game keeps me awake at night. Shoutout to Paul Eiding as well. Legendary voice actor performance. Coming back to this game his cadence of speech is “off” the entire time. What a game. What an experience.
its 2019 and I watch this every now and then to keep myself "woke" this game scared the shit out of me when I first played it when I was a child. -I do agree with the A.I. though, WE want this shit that is being fed to us and we arent doing much to change it.
Little note: most of the CODEC dialogue (and a considerable part of the main narrative arc itself) was written by Tomokazu Fukushima, not Kojima. After Fukushima left (by the end of MGS3) you can arguably spot how the writing took another direction and themes like anti-americanism, politics and introspectiveness were all but abandoned for the later games.
This actually has been brought to my attention by a previous comment, though I'd still like some kind of source for saying what specifically was written by either Fukushima or Kojima. Also I think Peace Walker makes a bit of a strong argument that not all of those themes were abandoned.
So I don't think I had actually done very much digging until now on this (maybe not even any? It's been a while) but it seems I have found the answer to this question given by Kojima in an interview (i.imgur.com/ijTFmMP.jpg) cited on this 10 month old reddit thread (www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7ixcea/tomokazu_fukushimas_contribution_on_metal_gear/). Kojima claims he writes every word of his games except that Fukushima writes "some of the codec dialogue." So, barring any other evidence I'll have to believe this for now. Since this topic has come up a couple times I'll consider doing a short video on it in the future.
Also as a side note, you seem to be referencing an argument that as far as I can tell comes from this essay (outsideyourheaven.blogspot.com/2012/04/decline-of-anti-americanism-in-metal.html) in saying the series has moved away from anti-americanism, politics and introspectiveness. I have a very interesting article I read some time ago on metagearsolid highlighting just how anti-american Peace Walker really is when it comes to its depiction and understanding of the US relationship with Latin America in particular (metagearsolid.org/2015/01/big-boss-as-che-guevara/). Strangely the essay seems to acknowledge how Peace Walker does this but it doesn't really explain how this doesn't dispel the notion that Fukushima was the reason that stuff was in Metal Gear... because as far as I see it, that's what it does. Besides, in many ways MGSV's entire plot just continues this with the Guantanamo Bay imagery, torture and plot of Ground Zeroes and so on. If anything I do understand some of the frustration the author of that essay has with how the series has changed but I think his argument misses the point, there's more nuance to it. The series has changed its focus in a lot of ways since that point and it has a lot to do with how Kojima's perception of the series, its fans and his creative leanings have changed. But I'll have to get more into that later.
That was the most original, thought provoking and well thought out response I've ever seen. I'm convinced sir, you are correct, your arguments are flawless and provide substantial reasons for me to doubt myself.
Who is here in 2020. Never has been so clear, that for any argument you have it's counter argument, or "debunked" video. No topic is safe, even the clearest ones you may think about!
Just look at the deluge of meaningless commentary on any recent games on UA-cam (I think you can guess a specific one this year) "debunking" or providing "hot takes" and realize we know exist in the desert of truth.
This game came out in 2001. The internet was still a dial up modem connected to the telephone landline during that time. This game pretty much just prophecised the digital age. He even used words like Digital age before anyone even called it that. Also the word Meme(tic) had a whole different meaning back then.
I'll never forget when I first encountered this for the first time in the middle of the night. Young innocent man maybe 11 years old at the time, just got his mind blown away. I'm pretty sure this dialog is why I can't meld with "society". I'm not even mad. No regrets.
How eerily ominous seeing it occur today.... it doesn't end with a bang for sure... everyone is whimpering. No one is right... and no one is invalidated.
I just wanted to come back and say that I appreciate the fact that you extended your analysis of this conversation beyond the realms of the reality of MGS and into the reality of modern social culture, because there seems to be no greater prophecy of the future than that of what Kojima expresses in his gameplay, and I thank you for your analysis, as it can help the common gamer further understand why MGS2 is one of the greatest games of all time, beyond the guns and bosses.
Awesome video. I never really realized how interesting this conversation is or what it really meant (probably just from being too young when I initially played the game) but I also loved your analysis. Great job!
This is why MGS 2 will be my favourite video game of all time. There is so much deepness and philosphical ideas behind this game that people talk even decades after the release about it. It's far better than MGS 3, 4 and 5. Only MGS 1 can scratch on the level of this game because of the very similiar tone. I have the impression that this game was the only oppertunity where Kojima could really expressed himself and his intelligence. Let's be honest this game was much smarter and deeper than the from everyone beloved MGS 3. This game was and still is far away it's time.
yeah the story of MGS2 was amazing. The themes and commentary were so far ahead of their time especially in the gaming medium. Sadly Kojima got backlash back in the day for the game being so story driven and out there, that he watered down the following games to appease gamers who don't care for story in their games. MGS5 being the worst offender with its shallow story and open world.
One of the best things about MGS2 is Raiden, in fact. I really liked him because I found him to be much more relatable than a Sci-Fi Project: Clone of the Big Boss, that is Solid Snake.🐍 At least the Raiden that we first meet anyways. He's just a common soldier in the military. Who has done pretty well for himself. He has a girlfriend/fiancée and a new baby on the way, to boot! A very common life for a soldier. And even though I had played the original Metal Gear games back on the NES along with MGS and VR Missions. I was freaking out right alongside Raiden! When unbelievable phenomenons like Vamp and Fortune were introduced. I love it when a videogame succeeds at creating obstacles and antagonist that make you say. When you first encounter them. "How the hell, am I ever suppose to be able to defeat something like that?! MGS2 still has the best Rogues Gallery of the serious, imo...
I haven't played MGSV. However, there's a lot of meta-commentary around the theme SENSE in MGS4. And MGS3... I don't think it's really philosophical. However, it's extremely deep and inspired in how it revisits some story building archetypes and conventions. So some people still talk about it today. Edit : not trying to be confrontational for the sake of confrontation here though. Actually, MGS2 is my favourite game of all time and the deepest game I've ever played.
In a 20-year retrospective, Christian Smith of Collider said that Metal Gear Solid 2 remains a "controversial masterpiece" that played a pivotal role in "redefining the art of making video games after the turn of the millennium". Source: The Legacy Section of the Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty Wikipedia Article.
I'm really glad i found this. When I played this game years ago I didn't understand a thing about this whole conversation. thanks for this man. This is awesome.
About the endangered species,if these animals die then that would damage the ecosystem and hence loss of habitat. Humans keep spawning and demand grows,but the extinction of these animals would have a permanent effect hence it needs to be stopped.
I remember in MGS 4, Rose said Jack kept getting flashbacks of himself when he was in the Small Boy Unit. Personally, if I were Raiden/Jack, I know I would be getting more flashbacks of this than that, as bad as I make that sound.
David Olson I have to agree with you. It's one thing to find out you did something absolutely terrible in your younger years and were taught to enjoy it, because you can take that set of 'buried' skills and memories and still learn off of them. What this game did to Raiden was destroy any faith, knowledge, or understand of anything in the world. Between the start of the game to the end, everything considered 'common' knowledge was attacked and in some cases disproven. Now that might not seem like much today, as with the internet's lack of a filter everything is questioned to some extent, we are able to deal with it piece by piece over they years. Raiden had it all shoved onto him in mere hours. It's pretty much the ultimate fear.
Maybe the mindwashing/PTSD he had with the Big Shell Incident was too violent that he couldn't think about it frontally, just like he couldn't think about his time as a child soldier until Solidus had refreshed his memory about it, near the end of MGS2? Edit: besides, it's very MGS4 to just drop proper nouns from the rest of the series, and to make every detail from the previous entries relevant. It serves the thematic approach Kojima and co had with this game.
Kojima is a genius he did predict the future in the current digital age all of the worst of humanity is shining through.no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. Parents can't be bothered for instilling virtue or common sense into their kids anymore when they get themselves into trouble or do bad things.Political correctness reigns supreme.any time I try to convince people they should be responsible for what they do I'm surrounded by so much ignorance,censorship and victimisation its suffocating.
+Shane Nolan lol, a Crisis of Values argument? People have been saying what you are saying for at least 4000 years. What makes you right now, when those others weren't right before? People were NEVER the way you think they should be. That much, will never change. Your anxiety stems from the disconnection between your ideology and your observed reality. I invite you to change one or both to address it.
So what if they have been saying it forever. He has a right to speak his mind, it was true then and it is true now! In fact, with everyone looking at their phones like halfway cyborgs this is more relevant now than ever before (assuming that Atlantis did not have screens). He also most likely cannot change the behaviour of the rest of the world as that could violate free-will, however much of that there even is.
Excellent analysis and video! The difficulty in trying to convey these types of complex discussions on society in video games (and why many consider the story of MGS2 to be a failure) is that, as a game designer, you have to ensure that your message is A) clearly explained and B) revealed gradually and/or subtly to the player via the gameplay experience. Gaming as a medium is all about the transmission of information with minimal dialogue. I feel that MGS2 nailed the former, but not the latter.
kinda weird how youtubes algorithm just decided to push all these old mgs2 videos even weirder is how much more relevant that conversation has become.....
THIS IS FUCKIN' AMAZING, BY THE WAY! Such an eye-opener... Then I realise, that almost ALL of the Metal Gear Solid games have profound wisdom and thought-provoking moments, locked away, awaiting discovery. All open to provoking self-analysis, if anything on that spectrum. Scary thinking of the probability of it all, and it's scarily high likelihood of being so in less than 20 years, by my vague calculation.
The world seems to be full of these people (or AIs) who think that they make some consequentialist proposition ("X would be good for Y, therefore doing X is good and I am going to bring about Y"), but do not propose any methodology of ethics that would be objective (obviously a nontrivial philosophical challenge, right?) first are evil. Which inevitably means "I am going to violate you becaus I know better what you want than yourself". There are several problems with this. First, what you choose for Y is based on subjective preferences, therefore you are talking aesthetics, not ethics. If you are then going to propose/employ fraudulent, murderous or other similar means, you are acting like your subjective preferences should be expressed in objectively observable ways, but those of other people should not (you are overriding them), which is hypocritical and thus cannot be ethical because having different standards for different people is not logically consistent application of any principle. Second, we cannot perfectly predict the future (which would mean we have no choice and ethics would need a different approach) and retro-causality is axiomatically impossible (from the definition, causes PRECEDE their effects; we would identify them the other way around if they in fact did not), therefore any argument "I do X in order to Y" has significant difficulties to establish any credibility, the same way you cannot PROVE that preemptive violence in 1 particular occurence actually prevents violence (and everybody is strongly motivated to falsify; only demonstrable statistically, which does not help when you have a dubious manslaughter on your hands). And because retro-causality is logically impossible you cannot accurately state the future as the cause of your present, or past, action; only your subjective opinions and preferences about the future. Everybody can threaten and lie you into doing various things if you are corrupt like this. Moral life is a relationship with yourself and others, built by certain methodology in the moment, not any particular result. Analogously to the scientific method -- it cannot be wrong, because it does not stake itself on any particular result -- it is a methodology, that over time cultivates a relationship between your mind and reality. Let me give my opinion here for a sec: there is something that people think they created to serve them, but ends up ruling them, through obviously immoral means, that many of them despite evidence nevertheless continue believing might be doing something good. But it's not the AIs. You do not choose to be born as a hostage subject to your parents, nor your government, nor your religion nor culture. But average parents threaten you with withdrawal of basic developmental needs like affection, touch, shelter, food, or beating you; your governments pretend that you signed a non-existent social contract which gives government the unilateral violence-backed means to impose its protection on you from unilateral violence-backed contracts (obvious contradction). If governments truly protected us, they should first protect us against themselves. Religions threaten you with eternal separation from parents as children, eternal torture in hell, some kill apostates, some mutilate genitals of newborns etc. To talk about the AIs is to psychologically displace anxiety and to avoid talking about our current enemies, involuntary relationships where we can be abused and cannot run away. But it feels safer to bitch about siblings, corporations and AIs than about our true abusive masters, I get it. But we will continue to be psychologically defended like this until we can truly empathize with the children we once were. People's political beliefs are most of the time just reactions to their family life as children. Then we can begin to grieve and one-by-one unravel the layers of irrationality and evil piled into our psyche.
Another important part of this is how the entire game up to this point has easily proved their point, but also shown the flaws in their plan. You DID do everything they told you to do, but at the same time you couldn’t have possibly gotten to this point without Snake, a factor outside the “simulation”.
"Outside the simulation" bingo I think, therefore I am, there will always be a real truth outside the matrix, in the real world, of the real things. Our lives now depend of holding on to that. I think an de-evolution is about to happen, we will go back to basics, back to the age of great thinkers and law givers, yes, the ones who choose to give up their freedom will do it, but we will do it all over again, with the experience of our previous growth in our memories.
Its kind of crazy to think that the AI makes sense when you put it up against our current day and age. When you look at facebook and other social media formats, we mostly fill them with those memes and funny quotes rather than share our art and thoughts. These memes in a grand scale of time will be meaningless to history.
Fuckkkkk you’re actually so right. It’s a bunch of meaningless shit. That’s why I still recall old memes from the early 2010s whereas I couldn’t tell you shit about the world outside of the US and Mexico. Damm this makes me think
I love MGS since a very long time. But as a philosopher I must say how very much I enjoyed your analysis. Even to this day I keep coming back to this game just to remind myself of it's relevance to this "modern age". It's always great to know that there's people out there who can understand the true beauty of this work of art.
The next step I suppose is extreme hygienism, extreme morality which is a synonym for mediocrity and boring society. Terrorism and violence will become the new way to rebel yourself against the system, instead of using the more refined and now lost ideas of humor and cynism. If you can't joke anout something, you need to take it to a higher level then. Just blow people head off.
Excellent analysis of Kojimas work. You broke everything down to near perfection. Kudos sir. I think I gravitate to this game series so much due to MGS2 story, in particular, this very conersation. While MGS2 wasnt my favorite to play, its one of the more inspirational and thought provoking for me and I thank you for the vid
Thanks. I mean I might talk about the MGS series in general and touch on that part sometime but it'd mostly be me talking about how much it reflected Kojima's thoughts at the time. Matthewmatosis really nails it.
The most profound moment in gaming for me was when I finally discovered that I had to switch my controller to slot two in order to beat Psycho Mantis. Mind...blown. I legit remember exactly where I was.
Right now. It started. They are taking metal gear games off online stores. For " historical inaccuracy " Save what you can. Learn while you can. Before it becomes illegal.
I disagree strongly. MGS2 is very intelligent, so much so that the majority of those who played it didn't understand it at all. MGS2 starts out with a hypothesis "The people who play this game are stupid MGS1 fans." And it proved itself right. If you didn't understand it, you simply got tricked. I'm not saying MGS1 fans are stupid, I love MGS1, it is my favourite game of all time. MGS2 plays with the idea that people just wanted more MGS1, just to turn everything upside down. The tanker mission is basically showing every person what they wanted out of a sequel, its a tease. In the plant chapter, the game indirectly tells you how stupid and predictable you are for wanting more of the same. MGS2 kicked me in the nuts, and I disliked it for years, because I was too young and stupid to understand its brilliance. Check out Super Bunnyhop's "Critical close-up: Metal Gear Solid 2", and prepare to have your mind blown.
***** I believe there is a major disconnect with people of the series. Most people don't even know the series started on the MSX, or even know there was a console at all exclusive to Japan ever for the matter.
+Turiyan Gold Considering that Metal Gear Solid touched upon a very real thing in human behaviour and predicted trends and events in the digital age as far back as 2001 is where I disagree with your statement.
Honored to speak Kojima’s frighteningly, prophetic words.
One of the greatest voiceactors of all time ladies and gentlemen.
The subtle differences between MGS1 colonel and MGS2 colonel are masterful.
Thank you for all your work.
G 50 I’m sorry and how involved are you in these projects? You work there 60 hours? Oh right. Ok. Cool story bro.
G 50 .....in....insecure? I never mentioned anything about myself. The fuck are you talking about. I think you’ve just projected onto me.
I was referring to Kojima himself. As in his position (I don’t know exactly how many hours he works, what he has for breakfast or how many times he takes a shit per day) but i assume he works longer hours then most.
Got it?
Fax
@@theepowerful so you think Tomokazu Fukushima wrote all codec sequences with no input from the the writer, director and producer? You think he just made it up as he went along, contributing the main plot device to the MGS2 story with zero oversight and complete creative freedom. What?
This game anticipated the future. It's years before facebook, and everything JD/GW says is coming to reality in recent years. Fake news, useless informations, and all else. Playing through this game again in 2017 was a terrifyng experience. Not a simple game, a philosophy masterpiece.
DarthFenix G I am about to do a replay I'm looking on the store now. Absolute must re play.
It keeps the peace, all this junk data.
a philosophical masterpiece*
Tho could it be a form of predictive programming , so we accept that there is a need for the illuminati and don't try to over throw them
@@uncannyavenger9998 I guess Jordan Peterson is right after all
The Patriots were right.
12 years after the game, and it's truer than ever.
TMZ proves nothingA
I'm with the Patriots
Simon Van Hellsing fuck it the patriots it is
I for one welcome our new A.I. overlords.
+ELCNUmorFnaMehT
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
It's funny how nobody gives Tomokazu Fukushima any credit and everyone just keeps praising Kojima
+John Doe Honestly you do make a good point.
+John Doe I think that Tomokazu Fukushima helped keep Kojima's story more relateable, realistic, and useful. This is extremely apparent considering I don't see him credited on mgs4 and mgsV.
Guts The Berserker
Has he ever been interviewed? Anything else he's written?
Honestly though I think MGS4, while clearly long-winded, still validates Kojima's writing as his own.
True I wasn't implying it was absolutely terrible but I noticed the writing seemed unedited and unpolished like the writer was afraid of criticizing himself but it makes so much sense now since I never knew about this Tomokazu guy. It was much harder to get into the stories that came afterwards for me but I still enjoyed them, the first three games though are just pure art.
Too bad I absolutely didnt understand what they were talking about when I was 13...
I said the same thing. This moment didnt hit me when I first played it.. in 2001 I was 15 years old and a freshman in high school. I had no clue whatsoever about what they were discussing. Now at 32, this all makes sense and its horrifying
@@oceano87 I play this game with 9 or 10 years old (2010 or 11) but in that time i don't have internet in my house so it was like 2000 or 2001 to me so i don't understand anything but the last time in 2017...
It was like WTF!!!!!!!! So goddamitt true
Same here I was 13 in 2001 I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about but what I do remember is all the dialogue made me feel stupid as a 13 year old kid. Now fast forward 19 years I’m 32 and come to find out that’s exactly what they were saying. That humans are stupid worthless beings. Man what a great game. I might play it again. Haven’t played it since prolly 2005
I know it's not as important as the speech itself, but I adore the background ambiance played during this codec. It's wonderfully chilling. If it was the speech alone it'd be scary enough, but having a legitimately discomforting "theme" in the background just makes the proximity of the horrific issues seem even closer, even more omnipresent.
thank you!! I wanted to say the same thing. The background ambiance evokes so much anxiety and fear with what is being discussed.
I need to know the name of the background music
Never forget that an A.I. (UA-cam's algorithms) suggested that you watch this video.
I searched for this so you're wrong
@@jayo3074 Same haha
Nope had thoughts about how Kojima was ahead of his time and wanted to see if others thought the same
Nope, took the advice of Max Derrant.
AI suggested HIS video.
As a person whose (Sadly) never played a Metal Gear game before...
I...
need to sit down
Yeah welcome to the metal gear fandom and dont forget to lock the door
Any Metal Gear game that involves Raiden will be deep and make you sad questioning free will
Play MGS1 first because the game hits way harder with that added context.
I don't get how people are subscribing the themes of this to certain political parties or groups or anything like that - I think what made MGS2 so effective thematically and what makes segments like this so chilling are that they seem less tied to any certain political climate and more to how technology has evolved and how our subjective interpretations of the world beyond us are becoming more and more tailored by outside forces. in a way we're having our food digested for us for convinience, missing out out on the details and the actual nutrition of the content.
I don't see this as a left, right, etc. thing - I don't even think the game even really proposes a right answer here. The Patriots by default are antagonists here because of their extreme implementations of their ideology. Isn't that what makes everyone in the Metal Gear series an antagonist? The chilling effect of this is partially due to some of the realities of what the AI is approaching in this codec call, specifically how much more their reality is relatable in 2017 than it was in 2001. Solidus was the antithesis of what the Patriots stand for, but a villain in his own right.
I think it's almost silly to put a left-right orientation onto this because it only reaffirms what the Patriots are basically going on about - digesting information and coding it into your own worldview, cutting a square cloth and sewing it neatly into a patchwork set of ideals that may be more or less tailored than the average person, but nevertheless constructed due to outside influence nonetheless. I love this codec call because it feels universally challenging and it leaves you with questions. It's disquieting in how applicable it remains and because it brings to the forefront the constant, droning cognitive dissonance we maintain consuming content in the digital age, more inclined to toss out what may be good information and consume crap because it's more comfortable or because it reaffirms our beliefs.
We are all guilty and all we have as reassurance is the partially-constructed voice in our head that tells us we are right, we are logical, we are reasonable, and we do a good job sorting things ourselves.
The n es who are censoring content on the iternet are big tech companies. Big tech companies are leftists. Thats why.
@@ekoms108 All of this went right over your head.
S Scholex Max sent me here. Reading your comment I think his video explains how this relates to the current political climate. I believe it will answer your question, check it out:
ua-cam.com/video/jIYBod0ge3Y/v-deo.html
ekoms108 you completely missed the point
Verily, thou sayest buckets, op. Check out Robert Anton Wilson/G.I. Guirdgieff (sp?) For an explanation of how everyone is in their own "reality tunnel," and how a lot of what we experience is curated content (creative context according to the GW AI of MGS2) from our ENTIRE nervous system, also now with a layer of computer algorithm selecting what we see in our fb feeds, UA-cam reccomendations, etc. Why has this video suddenly sprung up as a suggestion for multiple people? Its an old video with a small amt of views, but it has new comments- is it from the JRE discussions with Tim Pool and Jack Dorsey? That's what I think led me here. Thats an example of crearive context, although I prefer curated content.
Since I played this game I noticed something was up with the volume visualizer... It looked always like a gun pointing at Raiden....
Holy shit....
Throw back to original Metal Gear
@@youtubeuser7798 what?
It has always looked like that
An algorithm automatically flags what is deemed inappropriate on UA-cam. This happens without human interaction, it "watches" content and informs uploaders they have violated guidelines.
Why?
Because there is simply too much content to be manually reviewed, after being flagged it can be very hard to get to talk to a real human from UA-cam to solve your issue.
The program has become too large for it's owners to manage.
Same with tweets, Facebook posts, Instagram, etc.
I still need scissors. 61.
Thats what i recall most clearly... I NEED SCISSORS!! 61?!
i got it
I love it when the famous purple stuffed worm does a tuning fork pitch on Hari cari rock....
i think this game is the reason i never got into reddit, twitter, and instagram; why i felt so much sorrow on facebook i happily deleted it, why i’ve been alienated from society. i’m free from the prison of group thought but have been cast into a pit of loneliness and in a sense became my own echo chamber. In the search for self i sadly find the deep i dig, the further i lose my individuality and come closer to the real truth, “i am the biproduct of the ideas of better men. my philosophy does not come from within but through the work of others. I am my own worst enemy. i should hate this game. it’s brought endless anxiety and loss of identity, but somehow, i feel i’ve lifted a chain so loosely placed around my neck. i know i have the potential to have my own thoughts. i know that i have power, and by staying away from herd consciousness, i may be able to bring something of value to society
Jesse H you just wrote what I was thinking.
This is an underrated comment
Hey bro I feel the same. Ur welcome at my channel anytime in just starting to get into live streaming.so come by anytime
Stop "thinking" and start doing. Words and language are a tool for control.
@@youtubeuser7798 100% start doing something with your realisations. Enough thinking. Start writing.
kojima is 50 years ahead of mankind
lol.
Kojima is the hidden Bogdanoff triplet
yea he is eating his dinner while you are eating your breakfast
Dude Plato, a philosopher from Ancient Greece, brought up the same problem about truth as this codec call did in his "Allegory of the Cave"
BlackUnsaneDinosaurLizard cringe
This game is so post-modern. It's so good.
And the truly scary thing is, we still don't understand the full extent of this concept. You couldn't in 2001, you couldn't in 2010, you couldn't in 2019, and you can't in 2021. Let's hope that we never need to know.
@@futurei0oo But what happens after that? How long does the process go on for? Until humanity fades from the face of the Earth? What can we do, if it’s possible, to stop it?
@Shalin I don’t have any social media already
@Moto_Messiah Individualism only works for your sphere of life.
To solve this issue will take a bit of man power and a lot of heads on the same problem for.
Look up strategic trends documents. They're starting to come out now, and with ChatGPT/Open AI, they have a better glimpse at the military implications, as well as the societal ones looking into the future. Look up "Strategic Landscape 2050", etc. Also, "Human Augmentation: Dawn of a New Paradigm" from the MoD (Ministry of Defence).
I agree...an individual can't stop what is coming. However, an individual can opt out temporarily...but that's only as good until the moment collectivisation of the planet begins. At that point, every individual will be consumed anyway. To avoid collectization, it's weird, it's like we need transient collectivization to combat permanent collectivization@@product_of_august
As of this writing, it's now the year 2020. This analysis which by this time is almost 2 decades old, was frighteningly accurate.
Just one more year later... NOW how do you feel
one more later how do you feel?
And another? Feelings?
MEMES, JACK
*Nanomachines, son!*
The DNA of the sole.
Meme stonks, Jack.
It's amazing this game came out in 2001.
Leaving a comment in appreciation of Max Derrat's brilliant riff on your original video essay. I feel like so many people are caught up in the pseudoscience of Kojima's associated world-building to appreciate the deeply human themes he explores in his stories.
You did Kojima and his writing team - translators included - an incredible justice with this video alone. I appreciate you creating it. 💛
Well, checking in from 2024, this aged a little too well.
The AI is faced with the same dilemma all ruling classes is faced by. Namely, are we in power because we know best and therefore should decide for others, or are we just in a lucky spot and therefore our truth isnt more valid than any others? And yes, AI computers are in power...
It took me many years after playing this 10 years ago as a 12 year old to fully grasp and comprehend this discussion in it's entirety. Very deep and VERY thought provoking.
@@mydadispumpingyourmom Did you know that before consoles with internet, there were no patches?
If a game was buggy, the publisher had to re release the game out of their own pocket.
So devs actually TRIED to thoroughly get rid of bugs and glitches.
Weird right?
@@mydadispumpingyourmom probably due to time constraints, games take soooo much longer to create these days, technology hasn’t made it faster to develop! but longer! they just gotta push that sht out the door now since everything else about it is deemed more important. i wouldn’t be surprised if programming has become more complex therefore more opportunities for bugs to appear too. just a thought
I first hated Raiden and MGS2 when I was 13. Now 27 in September 2020 this game keeps me awake at night. Shoutout to Paul Eiding as well. Legendary voice actor performance. Coming back to this game his cadence of speech is “off” the entire time. What a game. What an experience.
Hideo Kojima is by far my favorite all-time story creator for games! So far ahead of the competition. NOTHING COMES CLOSE
iv never played the games but the more i see about them the more intrigued by this man. would love him to create some movies.
its 2019 and I watch this every now and then to keep myself "woke" this game scared the shit out of me when I first played it when I was a child.
-I do agree with the A.I. though, WE want this shit that is being fed to us and we arent doing much to change it.
It can almost boil down to the biblical, free will vs non free will.
God help us all its becoming a reality
I remember watching this when i was 14 yrs old and was I fucking scared lol
heck yeah. terrified me
Little note: most of the CODEC dialogue (and a considerable part of the main narrative arc itself) was written by Tomokazu Fukushima, not Kojima.
After Fukushima left (by the end of MGS3) you can arguably spot how the writing took another direction and themes like anti-americanism, politics and introspectiveness were all but abandoned for the later games.
This actually has been brought to my attention by a previous comment, though I'd still like some kind of source for saying what specifically was written by either Fukushima or Kojima. Also I think Peace Walker makes a bit of a strong argument that not all of those themes were abandoned.
So I don't think I had actually done very much digging until now on this (maybe not even any? It's been a while) but it seems I have found the answer to this question given by Kojima in an interview (i.imgur.com/ijTFmMP.jpg) cited on this 10 month old reddit thread (www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7ixcea/tomokazu_fukushimas_contribution_on_metal_gear/). Kojima claims he writes every word of his games except that Fukushima writes "some of the codec dialogue." So, barring any other evidence I'll have to believe this for now. Since this topic has come up a couple times I'll consider doing a short video on it in the future.
Also as a side note, you seem to be referencing an argument that as far as I can tell comes from this essay (outsideyourheaven.blogspot.com/2012/04/decline-of-anti-americanism-in-metal.html) in saying the series has moved away from anti-americanism, politics and introspectiveness. I have a very interesting article I read some time ago on metagearsolid highlighting just how anti-american Peace Walker really is when it comes to its depiction and understanding of the US relationship with Latin America in particular (metagearsolid.org/2015/01/big-boss-as-che-guevara/). Strangely the essay seems to acknowledge how Peace Walker does this but it doesn't really explain how this doesn't dispel the notion that Fukushima was the reason that stuff was in Metal Gear... because as far as I see it, that's what it does. Besides, in many ways MGSV's entire plot just continues this with the Guantanamo Bay imagery, torture and plot of Ground Zeroes and so on. If anything I do understand some of the frustration the author of that essay has with how the series has changed but I think his argument misses the point, there's more nuance to it. The series has changed its focus in a lot of ways since that point and it has a lot to do with how Kojima's perception of the series, its fans and his creative leanings have changed. But I'll have to get more into that later.
What magazine is that imgur from? @@LogosSteve
Wow
2024 anyone?
No
Your insight of this scene is truly remarkable. This was a great analysis of one of the greatest moments in gaming.
God, I need to replay this. I was so young then and it all went over my head.
"90% of everything is crap"
-Sturgeon's law
It's so sick because it is so fucking true.
I know.
glad to see this still being referenced in 2022/2023
That was the most original, thought provoking and well thought out response I've ever seen. I'm convinced sir, you are correct, your arguments are flawless and provide substantial reasons for me to doubt myself.
Who is here in 2020.
Never has been so clear, that for any argument you have it's counter argument, or "debunked" video. No topic is safe, even the clearest ones you may think about!
Just look at the deluge of meaningless commentary on any recent games on UA-cam (I think you can guess a specific one this year) "debunking" or providing "hot takes" and realize we know exist in the desert of truth.
The fact this game was released around 3 years after Google was founded is... a lot to process O_o
I may have found this video almost a decade after it's creation, but damn if it isn't as relevant as ever.
This game came out in 2001.
The internet was still a dial up modem connected to the telephone landline during that time. This game pretty much just prophecised the digital age. He even used words like Digital age before anyone even called it that.
Also the word Meme(tic) had a whole different meaning back then.
This video was posted 10 years ago. It ages like fine wine.
How does this get more relevant with time it’s absolutely interesting
Correctly predicting Tumblr since 2001
+A Big Boss alex jones show..... +alexjonesshow...
+A Big Boss alex jones show..... +alexjonesshow...
You missed the point. If you think this is saying you political beliefs are right and the what you dont believe in is wrong you missed the point
The more and more the years carry on.. the truer this all sounds.. :(
I'll never forget when I first encountered this for the first time in the middle of the night. Young innocent man maybe 11 years old at the time, just got his mind blown away. I'm pretty sure this dialog is why I can't meld with "society". I'm not even mad. No regrets.
2024 and this actually happening.
How eerily ominous seeing it occur today.... it doesn't end with a bang for sure... everyone is whimpering. No one is right... and no one is invalidated.
Kojima was ahead of his time, and so were you.
Decades ahead of it’s time
Unbelievably relevant
I just wanted to come back and say that I appreciate the fact that you extended your analysis of this conversation beyond the realms of the reality of MGS and into the reality of modern social culture, because there seems to be no greater prophecy of the future than that of what Kojima expresses in his gameplay, and I thank you for your analysis, as it can help the common gamer further understand why MGS2 is one of the greatest games of all time, beyond the guns and bosses.
21 years and its kind of here already
MGS2 is still by far my favorite of the series & this video eloquently explains why. Thank you :)
This video aged better than wine.
Awesome video. I never really realized how interesting this conversation is or what it really meant (probably just from being too young when I initially played the game) but I also loved your analysis. Great job!
4:20 "from tablets to book.....then back to tablets"
4:06 "Genes don't contain any record of human history."
Assassin's creed series: AM I A JOKE TO YOU???
This is why MGS 2 will be my favourite video game of all time. There is so much deepness and philosphical ideas behind this game that people talk even decades after the release about it. It's far better than MGS 3, 4 and 5. Only MGS 1 can scratch on the level of this game because of the very similiar tone. I have the impression that this game was the only oppertunity where Kojima could really expressed himself and his intelligence. Let's be honest this game was much smarter and deeper than the from everyone beloved MGS 3. This game was and still is far away it's time.
yeah the story of MGS2 was amazing. The themes and commentary were so far ahead of their time especially in the gaming medium. Sadly Kojima got backlash back in the day for the game being so story driven and out there, that he watered down the following games to appease gamers who don't care for story in their games. MGS5 being the worst offender with its shallow story and open world.
TristanThePest They couldve looked for a happy medium
One of the best things about MGS2 is Raiden, in fact. I really liked him because I found him to be much more relatable than a Sci-Fi Project: Clone of the Big Boss, that is Solid Snake.🐍
At least the Raiden that we first meet anyways. He's just a common soldier in the military. Who has done pretty well for himself. He has a girlfriend/fiancée and a new baby on the way, to boot! A very common life for a soldier.
And even though I had played the original Metal Gear games back on the NES along with MGS and VR Missions. I was freaking out right alongside Raiden! When unbelievable phenomenons like Vamp and Fortune were introduced.
I love it when a videogame succeeds at creating obstacles and antagonist that make you say. When you first encounter them. "How the hell, am I ever suppose to be able to defeat something like that?!
MGS2 still has the best Rogues Gallery of the serious, imo...
it wasn’t just kojima.
I haven't played MGSV. However, there's a lot of meta-commentary around the theme SENSE in MGS4. And MGS3... I don't think it's really philosophical. However, it's extremely deep and inspired in how it revisits some story building archetypes and conventions. So some people still talk about it today.
Edit : not trying to be confrontational for the sake of confrontation here though. Actually, MGS2 is my favourite game of all time and the deepest game I've ever played.
This needs to be coupled with the game's ending, where Kojima highlights the importance of subjective truths and finding something to believe in.
This happened, except the AI is dumb AF and is just feeding you what you're most likely to click
Never would have found this without Max Derrant. Cheers.
MGS2 predicted gamergate.
Kojima planned everything.
In a 20-year retrospective, Christian Smith of Collider said that Metal Gear Solid 2 remains a "controversial masterpiece" that played a pivotal role in "redefining the art of making video games after the turn of the millennium". Source: The Legacy Section of the Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty Wikipedia Article.
Much better analysis than that Max guy.
I'm really glad i found this. When I played this game years ago I didn't understand a thing about this whole conversation.
thanks for this man. This is awesome.
About the endangered species,if these animals die then that would damage the ecosystem and hence loss of habitat. Humans keep spawning and demand grows,but the extinction of these animals would have a permanent effect hence it needs to be stopped.
Still very relevant now with how things are
I remember in MGS 4, Rose said Jack kept getting flashbacks of himself when he was in the Small Boy Unit.
Personally, if I were Raiden/Jack, I know I would be getting more flashbacks of this than that, as bad as I make that sound.
David Olson
I have to agree with you. It's one thing to find out you did something absolutely terrible in your younger years and were taught to enjoy it, because you can take that set of 'buried' skills and memories and still learn off of them.
What this game did to Raiden was destroy any faith, knowledge, or understand of anything in the world. Between the start of the game to the end, everything considered 'common' knowledge was attacked and in some cases disproven. Now that might not seem like much today, as with the internet's lack of a filter everything is questioned to some extent, we are able to deal with it piece by piece over they years. Raiden had it all shoved onto him in mere hours. It's pretty much the ultimate fear.
Maybe the mindwashing/PTSD he had with the Big Shell Incident was too violent that he couldn't think about it frontally, just like he couldn't think about his time as a child soldier until Solidus had refreshed his memory about it, near the end of MGS2?
Edit: besides, it's very MGS4 to just drop proper nouns from the rest of the series, and to make every detail from the previous entries relevant. It serves the thematic approach Kojima and co had with this game.
This game was WAY ahead of it's time. Truth be told, this shit took me all the way out years ago. They were and are actually telling the truth.
Kojima is a genius he did predict the future in the current digital age all of the worst of humanity is shining through.no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. Parents can't be bothered for instilling virtue or common sense into their kids anymore when they get themselves into trouble or do bad things.Political correctness reigns supreme.any time I try to convince people they should be responsible for what they do I'm surrounded by so much ignorance,censorship and victimisation its suffocating.
+Michael Enigma But you're not the majority. It's sad but true.
Michael Enigma
yeah your not the majority
+Shane Nolan lol, a Crisis of Values argument? People have been saying what you are saying for at least 4000 years. What makes you right now, when those others weren't right before?
People were NEVER the way you think they should be. That much, will never change.
Your anxiety stems from the disconnection between your ideology and your observed reality. I invite you to change one or both to address it.
What you're saying has been said by every generation in history. Completely missing the point of the dialogue in the video.
So what if they have been saying it forever. He has a right to speak his mind, it was true then and it is true now! In fact, with everyone looking at their phones like halfway cyborgs this is more relevant now than ever before (assuming that Atlantis did not have screens). He also most likely cannot change the behaviour of the rest of the world as that could violate free-will, however much of that there even is.
LogosSteve, I sincerely adored your interpretation. Make more of these videos of any of the MGS titles, etc.
It's scary how a video game could predict the future with such accuracy.
Excellent analysis and video!
The difficulty in trying to convey these types of complex discussions on society in video games (and why many consider the story of MGS2 to be a failure) is that, as a game designer, you have to ensure that your message is A) clearly explained and B) revealed gradually and/or subtly to the player via the gameplay experience.
Gaming as a medium is all about the transmission of information with minimal dialogue. I feel that MGS2 nailed the former, but not the latter.
What would’ve happened to America if Solidus won?
Primordial soup sounds soothing right now because I'm sick at the moment
beLIEve.
kinda weird how youtubes algorithm just decided to push all these old mgs2 videos even weirder is how much more relevant that conversation has become.....
THIS IS FUCKIN' AMAZING, BY THE WAY!
Such an eye-opener... Then I realise, that almost ALL of the Metal Gear Solid games have profound wisdom and thought-provoking moments, locked away, awaiting discovery. All open to provoking self-analysis, if anything on that spectrum. Scary thinking of the probability of it all, and it's scarily high likelihood of being so in less than 20 years, by my vague calculation.
Lee Walton Nice estimate. That's a good estimate to the time AI can do what it is proposed by the Patriots.
"It is our duty to prevent that, as your rulers"
I wish we had such benevolent rulers. In reality, your rulers are the ones engineering our downfall
China is creating super solider. Yet where here talking about the Kardashians and Oprah’s interview about Meghan Merkel
The biggest thing i got out of the speech when i first played was that no one truly forms their own ideas, only half quoting what they've heard.
The world seems to be full of these people (or AIs) who think that they make some consequentialist proposition ("X would be good for Y, therefore doing X is good and I am going to bring about Y"), but do not propose any methodology of ethics that would be objective (obviously a nontrivial philosophical challenge, right?) first are evil. Which inevitably means "I am going to violate you becaus I know better what you want than yourself". There are several problems with this.
First, what you choose for Y is based on subjective preferences, therefore you are talking aesthetics, not ethics. If you are then going to propose/employ fraudulent, murderous or other similar means, you are acting like your subjective preferences should be expressed in objectively observable ways, but those of other people should not (you are overriding them), which is hypocritical and thus cannot be ethical because having different standards for different people is not logically consistent application of any principle. Second, we cannot perfectly predict the future (which would mean we have no choice and ethics would need a different approach) and retro-causality is axiomatically impossible (from the definition, causes PRECEDE their effects; we would identify them the other way around if they in fact did not), therefore any argument "I do X in order to Y" has significant difficulties to establish any credibility, the same way you cannot PROVE that preemptive violence in 1 particular occurence actually prevents violence (and everybody is strongly motivated to falsify; only demonstrable statistically, which does not help when you have a dubious manslaughter on your hands). And because retro-causality is logically impossible you cannot accurately state the future as the cause of your present, or past, action; only your subjective opinions and preferences about the future. Everybody can threaten and lie you into doing various things if you are corrupt like this. Moral life is a relationship with yourself and others, built by certain methodology in the moment, not any particular result. Analogously to the scientific method -- it cannot be wrong, because it does not stake itself on any particular result -- it is a methodology, that over time cultivates a relationship between your mind and reality.
Let me give my opinion here for a sec: there is something that people think they created to serve them, but ends up ruling them, through obviously immoral means, that many of them despite evidence nevertheless continue believing might be doing something good. But it's not the AIs. You do not choose to be born as a hostage subject to your parents, nor your government, nor your religion nor culture. But average parents threaten you with withdrawal of basic developmental needs like affection, touch, shelter, food, or beating you; your governments pretend that you signed a non-existent social contract which gives government the unilateral violence-backed means to impose its protection on you from unilateral violence-backed contracts (obvious contradction). If governments truly protected us, they should first protect us against themselves. Religions threaten you with eternal separation from parents as children, eternal torture in hell, some kill apostates, some mutilate genitals of newborns etc. To talk about the AIs is to psychologically displace anxiety and to avoid talking about our current enemies, involuntary relationships where we can be abused and cannot run away. But it feels safer to bitch about siblings, corporations and AIs than about our true abusive masters, I get it. But we will continue to be psychologically defended like this until we can truly empathize with the children we once were. People's political beliefs are most of the time just reactions to their family life as children. Then we can begin to grieve and one-by-one unravel the layers of irrationality and evil piled into our psyche.
goddamn dude!
Another important part of this is how the entire game up to this point has easily proved their point, but also shown the flaws in their plan. You DID do everything they told you to do, but at the same time you couldn’t have possibly gotten to this point without Snake, a factor outside the “simulation”.
"Outside the simulation"
bingo
I think, therefore I am, there will always be a real truth outside the matrix, in the real world, of the real things. Our lives now depend of holding on to that. I think an de-evolution is about to happen, we will go back to basics, back to the age of great thinkers and law givers, yes, the ones who choose to give up their freedom will do it, but we will do it all over again, with the experience of our previous growth in our memories.
Its kind of crazy to think that the AI makes sense when you put it up against our current day and age. When you look at facebook and other social media formats, we mostly fill them with those memes and funny quotes rather than share our art and thoughts. These memes in a grand scale of time will be meaningless to history.
Fuckkkkk you’re actually so right. It’s a bunch of meaningless shit. That’s why I still recall old memes from the early 2010s whereas I couldn’t tell you shit about the world outside of the US and Mexico. Damm this makes me think
It's weird to hear this conversation again and realize how much my ideas were affected by a video game I played when I was six.
Basically, our society lacks a Philosopher King. Justice has been perverted in the modern age. Plato feared democracy for this exact reason.
I love MGS since a very long time. But as a philosopher I must say how very much I enjoyed your analysis. Even to this day I keep coming back to this game just to remind myself of it's relevance to this "modern age". It's always great to know that there's people out there who can understand the true beauty of this work of art.
The next step I suppose is extreme hygienism, extreme morality which is a synonym for mediocrity and boring society. Terrorism and violence will become the new way to rebel yourself against the system, instead of using the more refined and now lost ideas of humor and cynism. If you can't joke anout something, you need to take it to a higher level then. Just blow people head off.
Honestly, the best solution that I can think of is that one meme: "Reject Humanity! Return to Monke."
do AIs have to poop?
Since even Arsenal Gears have a digestive apparatus, I must assume they do.
Data dump
no they just clear their cache
It’s practically 2024. Now that AI is being utilized at large scale , I think it’s safe to say that this game was clairvoyant.
you should have more subscribers...
Excellent analysis of Kojimas work. You broke everything down to near perfection. Kudos sir. I think I gravitate to this game series so much due to MGS2 story, in particular, this very conersation. While MGS2 wasnt my favorite to play, its one of the more inspirational and thought provoking for me and I thank you for the vid
First from max derret
Thanks. I mean I might talk about the MGS series in general and touch on that part sometime but it'd mostly be me talking about how much it reflected Kojima's thoughts at the time. Matthewmatosis really nails it.
#KojimaWarnedUs
#gamergate
Hah gamergate huh? I suppose the battle of the memes of people with ideological beliefs is certainly taking place.
LogosSteve Are you familiar with gamergate by now?
SWOgottaGO I have been for some time, I'm an avid watcher of Sargon and Internet Aristocrat and his new alias.
LogosSteve Check out Thunderf00t and TL;DR. You'll sub them.
Been watching TF for years, I've seen some of TL;DR's stuff.
The most profound moment in gaming for me was when I finally discovered that I had to switch my controller to slot two in order to beat Psycho Mantis. Mind...blown. I legit remember exactly where I was.
Yea, you were in front of your tv playing metal gear solid 1 duh. Lol jk
The 2045 Initiative... Damn I'm scared now. For real. Kojima predicted something that Russians are trying to make now.
Leon Parker We are living in it, you're just blind.
Jews* Israelis*
Right now. It started. They are taking metal gear games off online stores.
For " historical inaccuracy "
Save what you can. Learn while you can. Before it becomes illegal.
Intelligent and profound and Metal gear solid do not belong in the same sentence.
I disagree strongly. MGS2 is very intelligent, so much so that the majority of those who played it didn't understand it at all. MGS2 starts out with a hypothesis "The people who play this game are stupid MGS1 fans." And it proved itself right. If you didn't understand it, you simply got tricked. I'm not saying MGS1 fans are stupid, I love MGS1, it is my favourite game of all time.
MGS2 plays with the idea that people just wanted more MGS1, just to turn everything upside down. The tanker mission is basically showing every person what they wanted out of a sequel, its a tease. In the plant chapter, the game indirectly tells you how stupid and predictable you are for wanting more of the same.
MGS2 kicked me in the nuts, and I disliked it for years, because I was too young and stupid to understand its brilliance.
Check out Super Bunnyhop's "Critical close-up: Metal Gear Solid 2", and prepare to have your mind blown.
***** I believe there is a major disconnect with people of the series. Most people don't even know the series started on the MSX, or even know there was a console at all exclusive to Japan ever for the matter.
+Turiyan Gold
Considering that Metal Gear Solid touched upon a very real thing in human behaviour and predicted trends and events in the digital age as far back as 2001 is where I disagree with your statement.