Very well explained Sergio. On the R44 you actually feel the throttle control by the governor, you feel it turning a little bit, especially with ground maneuvers. To make it more complex, and this counts for at least the 269C as well, is that it has a correlator. This is a mechanical linkage, more collective pitch equals more throttle input. The 269C I flew had no governor, you had to do the fine tuning by hand, which is not that bad actually. But on the R44, the correlator input is usually too much (on purpose), so when turning the governor off, you have to close the throttle a bit in most situations.
Thanks for that explanation, Ralph. That's cool knowledge. Unfortunately, we do not have that kind of feedback on our home systems (which would make them even more complex and expensive as well!).
@@ralphrietveld Exactly. It's all about compromising and taking advantages of the positive things you can take from simming. I have been trying to get pilots and flight schools to understand that. Unfortunately, flight sims such as the one we use are still seen as "toys". Very few people in the industry are taking a good look at them and trying to find out how these low-cost solutions could help them and the industry itself. It's not like we should be naive and think these sims will replace other solutions, but they certainly have a space in the industry if people open their minds.
That's a great but tough question! There are a lot of variables that doesn't make it linear. One of them is the fact that there aren't that many HTR profiles and they all depend on who creates them, for example. I'll need to think hard about this one.
@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo It's always tricky. It's possible to talk about the flight dynamics in general but it will always depend on a lot of factors. Still, that's a great subject!
Great explanation, Sergio! I'll be looking forward to more! Great to see a rise in interest in rotary wing in simming. Runways are for the hover impaired!
I learned the same thing playing kerbal program, I take off by first throttling the engine at zero pitch and gently change the pitch until it takes off and when the helicopter is off the ground I adjust the two to get the greatest possible efficiency. Now I know what's it actually called
Hey Stephan! Thank you very much for watching. That could very much be one of our future videos! I have been receiving some other questions by email so it may take me some time to cover everything. It will also depend on the materials I can get to explain the subjects.
So does having a controllable throttle offer any kind of inherent benefit opposed to it being automated/governed? And by that I mean, does it offer more control to make small adjustments that you otherwise wouldn't be able to make in a fully-governed system? Imagine the Trim Control on an airplane for instance, it allows you to make small adjustments to the way the plane flies without having to make those adjustments using the more powerful yoke/joystick controls. I guess what I'm asking is, does a manual throttle control make it easier to hover, land, takeoff, and perform more precise movements opposed to a governed system? Or is it simply just a case of an aircraft manufacture being cheap and not installing a governor.
It doesn't. Most modern helicopters have a governor system in them that take that burden away from you and the throttle is most commonly used for startup/shutdown. Everything else is controlled via the governor. Older helicopters, such as the Bell 47, though, still rely on manually controllet throttles, though. And honestly, it's a blast to try and not crash a helicopter PLUS keep the engine running. You can actually get away without a throttle in your sim, though.
@@HeliSimmer Would you say generally that the plus version of the Virpil collective probably isn’t worth the extra if you only use it for a few seconds? Primarily in DCS. Thanks.
@@doifeellucky if that's the use case for you it's probably not worth it and you can put the money into some mounts or an extension or something like that. If you practice autorotations with recovery (meaning you don't go all the way to the ground) I would probably invest in the Plus since it will allow you to do it easier. On the other hand, you can also simulate the throttle by using any other axis from any other joystick.
That was I'm waiting for, just simply AND clearly said , just a pitty I don't so well the englisch language, especially the aviation terms, but nevertheless I gratulate you with this eposal !
Hi Sergio. Would love to see a video on trim, and force trim? How it can be mapped to pft puma? Why use it? Is it useful? How can we simulate it correctly? Thanks.
That is a great suggestion! I do need to resume this series (it's not been easy to make the time to do it) and that's a great topic to cover. Thanks for suggesting it!
@@HeliSimmer me desculpe, o teclado "quebrou o elogio"! Meus avós são portugueses, me chamo Paulo Cunha, "quase nada" português. Nasci no Brasil e piloto helicópteros aqui desde os anos 80. Na verdade, "former helicopter pilot". Já conhecia o teu site em função do excelente HTR. Teus canais estão entre os melhores repositórios sobre simulação para helicópteros. I apologize for the other members for writing this comment in Portuguese, but now it's possible to translate it "on the fly" (no pun intended). Bom fim de semana, Sérgio! Sucesso sempre!
@@pccunha (sorry, folks, we're just exchanging pleasantries). Muito obrigado, Vuk! Suas palavras são muito amáveis e um grande incentivo para eu continuar! Me deixa sem palavras :) Aquele abraço. Muito, muito obrigado por fazer parte da nossa comunidade.
@@HeliSimmer my kid and I are assembling a new PC, we have now an AMD Ryzen 7 5700x, 16GB of DDR4 3200 16CL and the RX 6600, plus a 2TB SSD NVME and an 1TB HD. It's an amazing machine, but we want to have the DCS and the MSFS 2020 running on VR. I'll check your site and UA-cam channel for hints on what to purchase.
@@pccunha I don't know the AMD stuff, to be honest. I've always used Intel and Nvidia myself. It was just personal preference, though. I know a lot of folks going with AMD and they are super-happy about it.
Check out our reviews on collectives: www.helisimmer.com/tag/review,collective I'm partial to the VIRPIL but do check these out as you may find something interesting on the other 2 as well (like the price).
You don't need to assign the throttle unless you are flying an aircraft where it is strictly necessary (like the FlyInside Bell 47 with the governor off). If that's not the case you can get away with it by just clicking on the throttle.
I just hope when the new simulator got helicopters they have new correct axis’s just for helicopters. In other word listening to developers like you that know how Should work in the sim.
You will find specific throttle axes on the settings, BUT, they don't work properly yet. The only helicopters where it works well are the FlyInside Bell 206 and Bell 47. It's a blast flying the 47 with the governor off!
Do you have a step by step setup of the Puma Pro-flight trainer heli controls for MSFS2020 please? I calibrated it, however, not an an easy fix and no image (of Puma or Puma X) even after downloading the config file. Thanks 🙂
Just follow the tutorial we have on the website. It's the exact same principle for any controls. You just need to find the correct command for the correct axis: www.helisimmer.com/tutorials/configure-joystick-helicopters-msfs
I'm confused as to what's just happened in MSFS 2020 Update 12. It now has 'governor support' - what does that mean for a casual heli simmer? I'm used to just flying them with one axis; my throttle. Any advice would be appreciated.
@@AdminVortex762 then it will benefit you but the governor still has issues. Cowan Simulations has been struggling with it still. The FlyInside B206 does have a custom implementation so you can use it. But here's the thing: in modern helicopters, like the B206, the governor will do all the work. You will only need the throttle on startup and shutdown. Which aircraft do you fly with?
MSFS has a dedicated collective axis in assignments. Take a look at it and make sure you are assigning it to the axis, since there are 2 other entries.
Developers are creating lots of great aircraft, and a variety are coming our way, however, why arent they doing Helicopters, as we are biting at the bit, as they say, for the release for some Helihead flying! A nice Guimbal Cabri or R44 would be a good start to train us
I think the hardest part is not the electrical one but the mechanical one. With a Leo Bodnar Board (www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=94) and some potentiometers / hall sensors, you can create your own stuff "easily".
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This was an excellent explanation on the collective
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
It was the best video I found on the subject. Congratulations!
Thank you very much. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
It was an awesome explanation for me on the collective and throttle effects
Hello Edwin! I am glad you enjoyed it and that it helped you. Thank you very much for watching!
Very well explained Sergio. On the R44 you actually feel the throttle control by the governor, you feel it turning a little bit, especially with ground maneuvers. To make it more complex, and this counts for at least the 269C as well, is that it has a correlator. This is a mechanical linkage, more collective pitch equals more throttle input. The 269C I flew had no governor, you had to do the fine tuning by hand, which is not that bad actually. But on the R44, the correlator input is usually too much (on purpose), so when turning the governor off, you have to close the throttle a bit in most situations.
Thanks for that explanation, Ralph. That's cool knowledge. Unfortunately, we do not have that kind of feedback on our home systems (which would make them even more complex and expensive as well!).
@@HeliSimmer That's indeed one of the disadvantages of simulator flying, but luckily it also comes with a lot of advantages over real flying.
@@ralphrietveld Exactly. It's all about compromising and taking advantages of the positive things you can take from simming. I have been trying to get pilots and flight schools to understand that. Unfortunately, flight sims such as the one we use are still seen as "toys". Very few people in the industry are taking a good look at them and trying to find out how these low-cost solutions could help them and the industry itself.
It's not like we should be naive and think these sims will replace other solutions, but they certainly have a space in the industry if people open their minds.
This was an amazing video and the HOTAS suggestion at the end was very much appreciated.
Instant sub once the video ended!
Thank you very much! I am super glad it helped you!
"That's how it would go in a perfect world..."
Me- ooooh here he goes now!! This is gonna be good.
Right? That's when you realize something will not go well!
@@HeliSimmer That is kind of par for the course with helicopters though. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
@@belgeode Yep! that's the mindset all right.
Would like to hear a comparision of flight models: XPlane, Aerofly FS2, P3D+HTR, DCS, Arma 3.
That's a great but tough question! There are a lot of variables that doesn't make it linear. One of them is the fact that there aren't that many HTR profiles and they all depend on who creates them, for example.
I'll need to think hard about this one.
@@HeliSimmer There aren't many helicopters in DCS and Aerofly either
@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo It's always tricky. It's possible to talk about the flight dynamics in general but it will always depend on a lot of factors. Still, that's a great subject!
Great explanation, Sergio! I'll be looking forward to more!
Great to see a rise in interest in rotary wing in simming.
Runways are for the hover impaired!
Thank you very much for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I learned the same thing playing kerbal program, I take off by first throttling the engine at zero pitch and gently change the pitch until it takes off and when the helicopter is off the ground I adjust the two to get the greatest possible efficiency. Now I know what's it actually called
Glad I could be of help. Kerbal is a ton of fun!
Hi Sergio,
Thanks for that perfect demonstration. Well done.
How about "what is a hot start" next?
Hey Stephan! Thank you very much for watching. That could very much be one of our future videos! I have been receiving some other questions by email so it may take me some time to cover everything. It will also depend on the materials I can get to explain the subjects.
@@HeliSimmer no problem.Take your time and any other stuff is even also welcome. Beeing thankful for what you do :)
Thanks, helped a lot !
I'm glad it helped you! Thank you very much for watching!
So does having a controllable throttle offer any kind of inherent benefit opposed to it being automated/governed? And by that I mean, does it offer more control to make small adjustments that you otherwise wouldn't be able to make in a fully-governed system? Imagine the Trim Control on an airplane for instance, it allows you to make small adjustments to the way the plane flies without having to make those adjustments using the more powerful yoke/joystick controls. I guess what I'm asking is, does a manual throttle control make it easier to hover, land, takeoff, and perform more precise movements opposed to a governed system? Or is it simply just a case of an aircraft manufacture being cheap and not installing a governor.
It doesn't. Most modern helicopters have a governor system in them that take that burden away from you and the throttle is most commonly used for startup/shutdown. Everything else is controlled via the governor.
Older helicopters, such as the Bell 47, though, still rely on manually controllet throttles, though. And honestly, it's a blast to try and not crash a helicopter PLUS keep the engine running.
You can actually get away without a throttle in your sim, though.
@@HeliSimmer Would you say generally that the plus version of the Virpil collective probably isn’t worth the extra if you only use it for a few seconds? Primarily in DCS. Thanks.
@@doifeellucky if that's the use case for you it's probably not worth it and you can put the money into some mounts or an extension or something like that.
If you practice autorotations with recovery (meaning you don't go all the way to the ground) I would probably invest in the Plus since it will allow you to do it easier.
On the other hand, you can also simulate the throttle by using any other axis from any other joystick.
That was I'm waiting for, just simply AND clearly said , just a pitty I don't so well the englisch language, especially the aviation terms, but nevertheless I gratulate you with this eposal !
Thank you very much, Alain. Feel free to ask about anything it may not be that clear to you. My accent does not help either, right? :)
Hi Sergio. Would love to see a video on trim, and force trim? How it can be mapped to pft puma? Why use it? Is it useful? How can we simulate it correctly? Thanks.
That is a great suggestion! I do need to resume this series (it's not been easy to make the time to do it) and that's a great topic to cover. Thanks for suggesting it!
Hi, Sérgio! Are you Brazilian? Kinda off topic, I know!
Thanks for the amazing content!
Hey Vuk. Thank you! I am Portuguese :)
@@HeliSimmer me desculpe, o teclado "quebrou o elogio"! Meus avós são portugueses, me chamo Paulo Cunha, "quase nada" português. Nasci no Brasil e piloto helicópteros aqui desde os anos 80. Na verdade, "former helicopter pilot".
Já conhecia o teu site em função do excelente HTR. Teus canais estão entre os melhores repositórios sobre simulação para helicópteros.
I apologize for the other members for writing this comment in Portuguese, but now it's possible to translate it "on the fly" (no pun intended).
Bom fim de semana, Sérgio! Sucesso sempre!
@@pccunha (sorry, folks, we're just exchanging pleasantries). Muito obrigado, Vuk! Suas palavras são muito amáveis e um grande incentivo para eu continuar! Me deixa sem palavras :)
Aquele abraço. Muito, muito obrigado por fazer parte da nossa comunidade.
@@HeliSimmer my kid and I are assembling a new PC, we have now an AMD Ryzen 7 5700x, 16GB of DDR4 3200 16CL and the RX 6600, plus a 2TB SSD NVME and an 1TB HD. It's an amazing machine, but we want to have the DCS and the MSFS 2020 running on VR.
I'll check your site and UA-cam channel for hints on what to purchase.
@@pccunha I don't know the AMD stuff, to be honest. I've always used Intel and Nvidia myself. It was just personal preference, though. I know a lot of folks going with AMD and they are super-happy about it.
New to flight sim- is there a in game tutorial on learning about flight panel controls in the helicopter?
Hey Alex. There is not but if you have any questions please let me know.
There are constant speed prop planes which work on pretty much the same principle.
Do you have any suggestions for buying a collective for home use?
Check out our reviews on collectives: www.helisimmer.com/tag/review,collective
I'm partial to the VIRPIL but do check these out as you may find something interesting on the other 2 as well (like the price).
The whole explanation is good, but you missed one thing. To show where is the throttle for the collective shown in the thumbnail
Here in 2023. Flying MSFS with a Logitech 3D pro, thinking I will only assign the collective to the throttle switch and use the governor otherwise.
You don't need to assign the throttle unless you are flying an aircraft where it is strictly necessary (like the FlyInside Bell 47 with the governor off). If that's not the case you can get away with it by just clicking on the throttle.
I just hope when the new simulator got helicopters they have new correct axis’s just for helicopters. In other word listening to developers like you that know how Should work in the sim.
Microsoft did promise they would reach out to us to help them out. We're patiently waiting for that to happen.
@@HeliSimmer thank for the reply, just like i hope other simmer cannot wait to a helicopter in VR
@@airbluex79certainly. We are all waiting for some (good) helicopters in MSFS. The sim and the scenery screams for helicopters, doesn't it???
Umm..... How I can mapping the throttle on MSFS? Collective works, but no luch with throttle
You will find specific throttle axes on the settings, BUT, they don't work properly yet.
The only helicopters where it works well are the FlyInside Bell 206 and Bell 47. It's a blast flying the 47 with the governor off!
Do you have a step by step setup of the Puma Pro-flight trainer heli controls for MSFS2020 please? I calibrated it, however, not an an easy fix and no image (of Puma or Puma X) even after downloading the config file. Thanks 🙂
Just follow the tutorial we have on the website. It's the exact same principle for any controls. You just need to find the correct command for the correct axis: www.helisimmer.com/tutorials/configure-joystick-helicopters-msfs
I'm confused as to what's just happened in MSFS 2020 Update 12. It now has 'governor support' - what does that mean for a casual heli simmer? I'm used to just flying them with one axis; my throttle. Any advice would be appreciated.
If you don't worry about the throttle, just ignore it! It won't make a difference to you :)
@@HeliSimmer I’d like to fly manually - full control as possible?
@@AdminVortex762 then it will benefit you but the governor still has issues. Cowan Simulations has been struggling with it still. The FlyInside B206 does have a custom implementation so you can use it.
But here's the thing: in modern helicopters, like the B206, the governor will do all the work. You will only need the throttle on startup and shutdown.
Which aircraft do you fly with?
@@HeliSimmer Currently the H146
@@HeliSimmer sorry the H145
How do I configue the collective on MSFS ?
MSFS has a dedicated collective axis in assignments. Take a look at it and make sure you are assigning it to the axis, since there are 2 other entries.
Developers are creating lots of great aircraft, and a variety are coming our way, however, why arent they doing Helicopters, as we are biting at the bit, as they say, for the release for some Helihead flying! A nice Guimbal Cabri or R44 would be a good start to train us
On MSFS? The sim does not support helicopters. Watch this video I made about it: ua-cam.com/video/4mpks4nv5Y4/v-deo.html
Where can we build a real good collective without the high tech electrical abilities?
I think the hardest part is not the electrical one but the mechanical one. With a Leo Bodnar Board (www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=94) and some potentiometers / hall sensors, you can create your own stuff "easily".