Vintage Speaker Cone Renovation and Repair without Re-Coning
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Old speakers wear out and must be refurbished when restoring the vintage guitar amplifiers, radios, and jukeboxes that utilize them. Re-coning is the best and most permanent method, but it has become expensive, parts are sometimes difficult to find, and the re-coned speaker will have to be broken in before it will sound as it should. In addition, preservation of the original cone is often desirable in the restoration of very rare amps and speaker cabinets. This video covers a quick, easy, inexpensive way to refurbish old speaker cones in your own workshop in a matter of hours. PLEASE NOTE: this method is not applicable to speakers with damaged voice coils. According to a viewer, this site offers all sorts of glues associated with speaker and coil construction, including the doping material used on surrounds: www.cpmoyen.com/
Doug, good job on the repair. I have made my own "dope" with a mixture of rubber cement and lacquer thinner. Not sure the exact mixture. I have an old turntable that I center the speaker and wet my brush and spin the turntable by hand. I can get a nice, even coating of "dope". I use a 1" artist brush.
Greetings, Bbend. I definitely agree with the idea of thinning the contact cement with lacquer thinner, it makes it easier to spread an even, penetrating coat. The spinning turn table is another excellent idea. Thanks for your input :)
I have done this too- very similar concept with great results.
Thanks for the tips guys. I am in old speaker repair mode (they've piled up and now I need 2 of them) :) No old turntable, but I have a 15" artist painting turntable that sure do the trick for consistent coverage and finish. Great tips all the way around and I happen to have all the needed material on hand. Thanks again!
The speakers I primarily intended the video for are the type used in guitar amplifiers, which just about always have one-piece, rather stiffly suspended cones. Hi Fi and stereo speakers, on the other hand, often have the foam suspension, which is much more pliable, and usually reside in sealed cabinets where trapped air restrains the cone excursion. Foam-suspended cones would probably not last long (or sound good) in an open-back guitar amp. Thanks you for your input.
Now that makes sense. Thank you.
Here I am again with Uncle Doug, the man with all the answers! :) Out of all the DIY suggestions, this definitely makes the most sense addressing the needs. Thanks UD!
You're welcome, PM. Good luck.
This works, Doug, but you have to make sure and get an even penetration around the entire surround. If you miss a spot or dont get it in the valleys, it will rip there at high volumes, or over time at medium volumes. Weldwood is a great product, and I have old Jensens that have been going for decades with this fix.
Also helps to thin out the cement with acetone. Helps it cover better, and pentrates the paper, actually becoming a part of it, so the surround acts like a butle-rubber surround!
Butyl?
I agree with all you say, Duncan. Thinning the cement is a good idea, especially if it's not a fresh can, as is the necessity of an even coat. Thanks for your input.
Thanks guys
Ed, it's an automotive product and I bought my tube at Pep Boys. It's called Permatex Ultra Black RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Be sure it dries thoroughly overnight and it will create a flexible, virtually indestructible repair. Thanks for the kind words....good luck.....and stay tuned for lots more videos.
hey there, you're almost rite, but i work in auto body, we use windshield urethane , and i have been using that so seal edges of speakers, that stuff is indestructable, but it sticks to everything, i mean everything ,,and only use a little bit,, put it in a bucket of hot water so it's easier to get out of the tube ( it's like a caulking tube )so be carefull
FYI,,,, the last time i ordered it , it was $ 10.00 , U.S. i've been using it for about 15 years and have no idea who makes it , but you can get it from any auto paint supply, you don't need special lisencing, wind shield adhesive,,, i also sealed my under mount sink in my kitchen with it, no hardware, indestructable
Cant thank you enough for doing all your video work, once our generation is gone all the knowledge is lost.
You're welcome, Shane :)
Thanks for taking the time for sharing your experience. I recently acquired a sweet pair of 1957 Jensen P10R speakers for use in an 18 watt, open back, guitar amp build. 1 is the ribbed cone and the other is a smooth cone. I had been contemplating on what, if any, product would be a good choice to "revive" instead of re-cone and wondered about the contact cement due to it being strong and very pliable. The old cones do dry out, become brittle and will almost certainly crack at higher volumes even if they have had low usage and been kept in a controlled environment. After watching your video I have decided to give it a try. It will be awhile before I have the amp ready, but I will post back with my results. Again, thanks for sharing!
You're very welcome, Chip. The procedure I describe doesn't work for all cones, but it really does improve most of them. I recently heard of a method using (a thin coat of) clear silicon caulking material to paint the suspension ring. I haven't tried it yet, but the speaker I saw with silicon repair looked and sounded quite good, and the silicon would be much stronger and probably more flexible than the contact cement. Thanks for your input and keep us posted on your results.
Uncle Doug I did consider Silicone as an option, but thought it may be a bit to heavy and have a negative effect on the reflex action. I think I may experiment a bit, with a less valuable speaker, with thinning out the Silicone to see if it will penetrate better into the dry paper. Just a thought :)
Give the thinned silicon a try, Chip, and let us know how it turns out. I have not had a speaker to experiment with in a while, and I definitely concur that experimentation should be done on less valuable speakers. In my experience, silicon really sticks to surfaces, so maybe penetration might not be necessary. Maybe just a very thin, surface coating (?)
rejuvenating the suspension ring is a great way to keep you speakers running for years to come! rubber cement works pretty well! shoe goo is another one to help keep the suspension ring springy, great info here!
Thanks for the info, TK.
I've been using silicone for years to repair/prolong the life of vintage speakers.
It is the best thing I've used so far, doesn't necessarily have to be black either.
I used your contact cement method with an old 6" speaker from an old radio.
No more flatulence of the speaker.
I'm glad it worked for you, F3.
Thanks very much, Doug. I had the speaker out of a 1947 GE radio with a substantial crack. Your method was quick, simple and effective. Thanks for sharing your time and talents in yet another excellent video.
You're welcome, Andrew. I'm glad it worked for you.
I'm restoring a 1950 Wurlitzer Jukebox and your videos have been super-helpful, especially with the amp repair. I just followed you directions to fix up the speaker. I can hardly wait to hear the results! Thanks for the great posts.
You're welcome, Bob. I hope it sounds great !!
Well, I got it done and it sounds fairly good (for what it is -- a 70 year old system [Using a mono cobra pickup system]). Then it occured to me that some records which sound so bad, could be stereo 45's. And the system just can't phonically play them. Is that right? Your juke must be mono... and do you only play mono records? Thanks again!
Uncle Doug - 2 hours ago I had no idea who you were but this speaker lesson has been immense for me. I am interested in this stuf but know next to nothing. Thanks for the time you took to put this info together. Hopefully you do more "tutorial" vids. very cool.
You're welcome, Rob. I'm glad the video was helpful. I have posted about 109 other videos, so you still have a bunch more to watch :)
You are one of my favorite Uncles.
Thanks, TL. You are one of our favorite nephews :)
Thanks for this tip, i'm very broke so this was invaluable.
You're welcome, SS. It's always wise to preserve vintage speakers....and our money....whenever possible :)
You have a Zenith 49cz852. A friend of mine discovered it and it is one of the nicest sounding speakers we've ever heard. He has a $1200 homemade tube amp that's been Finley tunes. I bought three of them and have yet to use them. If you have the motivation I would highly reccomemd using it with a tweeter with a 2uf capacitor on the tweeter. This speaker truly sounds amazing. My friend spent years with his 2 sons until they finally found this gem, the Zenith 49cz852.
Thanks for the info, Nick. I will treat the speaker with greater respect, now that I know more about it :)
Thanks I repaired a paper edge speaker that was rip completely around the edge just had to center it and put the silicone on at 12-3-6-&9 o'clock allowed to dry over night then went all the way around, once that was dry I put the contact cement on the back side for added support, I did this because the contact cement will not adhere to the silicone. sounds as good as my good speaker and has been working daily for 3 weeks now.
Wow......that's a really drastic repair. I have never tried to repair a cone that had completely separated from the suspension. Good work.
This is so ironic I can't believe it. I'm a mechanic and a true believer in Ultra Black. I was told you cant do that. I did. It worked. The one thing that made sense to me to repair outer portions of a paper speaker was contact cement. That worked to. I just bought an extremely rare paper speaker with a humungous square magnet. Finding a recone for these...probably not gonna happen. So i wanted to see what i could do. Damage is minor. And i found this which confirms that what originally worked will work again with buying something I have to make 24 monthly payments on with a down payment. Thank you. Good information.
You're welcome, Steve. Glad it was helpful :)
Thanks for this video Doug. I just received a 1961 Danelectro Twin Fifteen amp and one of the two Utah speakers is beginning to separate along the speaker surround area. I will get me a tube of the black Permatex Ultra RTV silicone gasket maker stuff and carefully apply it to the tear. I dread the thought of re-coning these wonderful old speakers. The price for one but, knowing that the original tone will probably be lost forever with a new cone job. Perhaps I am wrong. Just seems to make logical sense that new paper will sound different than the vintage original cone material. Sad to say I have also got to reconstruct the mounting positions of the speakers. Even though this amp was well packaged in a 5/8" inch plywood crate with Styrofoam insulation all around it must have taken a hard slam and the speaker anchors pulled through the 1/8" Masonite mounting board. I've got some planning to do. Your channel is a great source to get tips for working on my aged trio of amps. Much appreciated.
It sounds like you have a challenging project, Kevin. I think it's always best to try to save the original cones, if possible. The silicon RTV gasket maker can bridge and repair most tears in the suspension (surround) portion of the cone, yet it maintains good flexibility. If your repairs work, then you have saved a great old speaker. If they don't, then you are no worse off than when you started. I'll bet you are successful.....best of luck :))
Thanks Doug,
Newby here. I appreciate you sharing your years of valuable experience.
You're welcome, Bob. I'm glad the videos are helpful :)
This came in very handy for me, and my own experiences echo yours as far as materials, how to use and apply, where you need flexibility etc... One thing that I find very handy when applying anything to the surrounds or elsewhere inside the cone, is to have a turntable- I actually use a round ottoman (footstool) that spins, so I can use a brush to apply while spinning at a slow to medium speed to achieve a consistent and tidy application. One just has to be sure to mark or take careful note of the center spot to ensure it rotates properly and evenly. As always , thank you sir! I respect and appreciate your knowledge!
You're welcome, Jeff. Thanks for the excellent tip.
.......and thanks for your inquiry and kind words. I really appreciate them.
Thank you! Just tried the contact cement trick on some older Fender 12" that were flubby when cranked up and this worked like a charm!
That's great news, Cody. It's an easy fix that works fairly often.
A great idea; I have used other methods, but yours is by far the better approach. The ridges of the speaker do create a challenge when it comes to restoring at a practical price.
+John Cunningham Thanks, John. This method isn't suitable for all speakers, but it does provide an quick, easy way for viewers to repair their own speakers at home. It may not work in every case, but I have found it to be quite effective, quite often. Thank you for your input.
Hi Doug,
I am lucky enough to have the former Harmon-Kardon speaker division's Lead Design-Engineer of 18 years owning and operating an electronics repair shop in my town. He told me that many companies used to use PVA for speaker assembly. This would be Elmer's glue, or even Titebond wood glue! He advised me to paint not only the surround, but the entire cone, and claimed that this was what some companies actually did "to give the speaker a perma-wet look", and I would assume to add stability over time.
I have tried this method for patching old drivers from radios and amps with great success. I am not sure about high volumes or extended periods of time, but it seems to maintain the rigidity of the paper and the tonal transfer without sacrificing anything. (For patching holes and tears with PVA, I simply use small pieces of cigarette rolling papers and paint on the glue, which is usually watered down ~5:1 - glue:water.
Great video! Thanks so much for doing what you do! I've been waiting for some time to be able to give back to you in some way after all you've taught me with your vids... Hope this helps!
Greetings, Britt, and thank you for your very helpful input. I would worry that Titebond glue may make the surround too stiff, but if this gentleman vouches for it, then I will definitely try it for my next speaker repair. I have successfully used glue of this sort with toilet paper as a matrix to bridge and reinforce tears in the cone, but must admit that cigarette paper would make a much neater repair. Thanks again for your excellent advice.
Uncle Doug
Hello, instead of Elmers PVA ,speaker reconers I know in the UK ( a rare breed here too now) use an EVA glue on surrounds, PVA is far more brittle than EVA glues with their additives of wax and resins. Looks like Elmers (OK on the cones) but is not the same and stays flexible.
Your contact stuff might well be the same stuff if its an emulsion, not spirit based.
I'd use a PVA to dope the cones or repair but use an EVA on the surrounds.
Good info, F3. Thanks so much for posting :)
festinger3 Hi! Thanks for the useful information F3. I am in the process of repairing some drivers and wanted to know if the EVA glue needs to be diluted with water before spreading it on the surrounds?
Regards.
Paul
You're welcome, Paul. I have never used EVA glue, so I'm not sure about dilution before use. Maybe you can find some info on the Internet. Good luck.
Best Tutorials about amps valves etc ever, thanks for the brilliant explanations of how things work.
Thanks, Brian.
@@UncleDoug i thank you kindly uncle.
@@briansweeney2419 You're welcome, Brian.
excellent tip I have done the same thing for 30 years with un cut
future floor wax sometimes painting the entire cone usually on equipment that was made before World War 2 thank you for sharing this tip and the RTV the silicone is excellent ...
Thank you very much, Uncle Doug! You have just helped me save one of my very rare, vintage speakers! And I am now a subscriber!
That's great to hear, Mike. Welcome aboard !!!
Awesome tip! I was going through my stuff and was going to throw out a Eminince 12" because it had a tear in it (kids love to destroy any and all speakers!).....definately gonna try this.....and also re-vamp those 39 year old scorpions as well. Thanks a bazillion!
Ron Gay You're welcome, Ron. Rusty and I hope your speaker refurbishment is a big success :)
Greetings, CD. If you can gently move the cone inward and outward (by hand) without any rubbing of voice coil against the pole piece or magnet, I would simply repair the dust cap and continue to use the speaker. Even if dust or particles have gotten inside the voice coil area, causing it to rub, you can sometimes invert the speaker and gently blow them out. I only re-cone as a last resort, since it really changes the nature of the speaker, at least until it is completely broken in.
This is just fantastic. I subscribed a while ago and have learned much from your great videos. I have been sitting on an old, Celestion black back with a small tear just like the one in your speaker here. The second black back I have sounds fantastic and I have been very leary about getting this re coned as the materials are much different these days. I will definately try this to repair the old cone. Thanx so much for your great videos.
chaka9774 You're welcome, Chaka. I hope the repair works well for you.
Thanks for this. I just gave 2 Celestion G12M's to a guy. I never noticed that one had some tiny rips around the edge in a couple of spots. I sent him this link so hopefully he can make it work/rescue it, and pays me for the speakers. :)
I have another one in a cabinet in the garage that sounds like it has a bit of a rip in it. I should take it out and see how bad it is. This might be the answer for that one as well.
Joe Foley Good luck with the repair, Joe. Let us know how it turns out.
Will do. Seems quite easy. Thanks for posting the video.
You're welcome :)
Nice job, I've had to do that a few times with older speakers, especially some of the strange Philips "Inside out" ones that have the magnet at the front.
Thanks, RH. We're glad the video was helpful.
Thats a great way to save some money and get more mileage out of old speakers. I have used nail polish to good effect on small imperfections or cracks in the past, but it has its limits.
+John Miner It will work with most speakers, John, but, of course, has its limitations. I find that repairs offering some flexibility generally work the best.
Thanks for this tip Uncle Doug! I have just damaged a '66 Heppner speaker (from a Hammond) and hope to revive it.
Good luck, Chip.
Thanks for the informative video. I also enjoy reading the comments & suggestions as a bonus. I recently purchased an old 15" Jensen to go into my magnatone project. The speaker is in dire need of TCL as well as some repair at two spots on the rim, very similar to the tears on your vid. Can't wait to try this repair technique.
You're welcome, PG. Yes, indeed, the viewer comments are a wonderful source of additional information......often extremely informative. Good luck with your speaker renovation.
I'm a 35 year master painter and I hate silicone. In fact I named my dog silicone and I kick her head in every day that it rains but lexcel (spelling) makes a clear, oil based, adhesive siliconized. sealant. It comes in a clear hand held tube. I'm repairing an old Roland Jazz Chorus 60 and the speaker is real dry but not cracked, I just figured there may be a way to restore the dry come. I have that cement that you have and I have the Lexcel. But I hate getting to to that glue on me. It use that stuff to or lamenting and glueing the rawhides for my long bows and broad bows.. it's strong stuff.U can use the Lexcel when ur boot is coming loose from the sole. U might like it.
Thanks for the tip, Nathan.
@@UncleDoug You're welcome man. I got that old Roland all cleaned up and I blew really hard on some stuff and spit and blew on all the other little doodads and it still buzzes pretty bad if I even look at the distortion knob. Oh and the brightness switch pushed in 5 minutes after I go it put back together. So I've gotta see what happened to that anyway. I'm sure it's actually busted so I'll prolly just try to make an on off switch that I have laying around not look too wonkey.
i use that contact cement on all my split speakers..and have done it a long time...it works, and it stays flexible...nice video...
It really does work, Kenny. Thanks !!
Good job Doug. I learned this on another video by Glasslinger. I've used it on many speakers & can definitely hear the difference on the worse cases.
Thanks, Eugene. Glad it was helpful.
Some years ago I had a pair of Cerwin Vega home audio speakers that needed new foam surrounds. I hunted around online and eventually found an outfit called parts-express.com and ordered new surrounds from them. Like I say it has been a while now, but I remember thinking at the time that the price was reasonable. They sent me two 12" surround kits. The kit consisted of the foam surrounds, some plastic shims to shim the voice coil with while you get the surrounds on just right, new voice coil dust caps, the correct glue or dope to use, maybe a half dozen or so little foam swabs to spread the dope with and some very detailed directions. They also had a video on how to do it on their website. I remember thinking I was going to have to shell out for a new pair of speakers and found the surround kits to be boon by comparison. At first, I was a little intimidated by the thought of doing that sort of a repair myself since I not only never did one before, but I'd never even seen it done. But I just followed the directions and my speakers were good as new and are still in service today. They also had total reconing kits, mounting gaskets and pretty much everything else you can think of.
They sound like an excellent source of re-coning materials, DE. I too have found a really nice source of speaker supplies: The Speaker Exchange reconingspeakers.com/ Thanks for sharing your successful reconing experiences with us.
If you have a tear on the cone (not near the edge) is using tissue paper a good way to reinforce the repair. I see video where they're using Elmer's glue and tissue paper (some used black tissue paper). Thanks and great video as always...
Philip
A tear in a non-flexing portion of the cone can be reinforced with glue and paper of your choice. Bear in mind this is only to prevent the tear from growing and should not be done on the flexing suspension portion of the cone.
When I find old speakers whose cone is a bit weak around the edges I will usually apply a few coats of PVA glue to them. It absorbs well into the paper and does a very good job. I have a big bottle of the stuff (it's actually Pergo floor glue).
Thanks for the tip, D20 :)
I've been doing repair work for over 50 years and your suggestions on cone repair are all valid as are many of the suggestions from readers. I've used all of them. Have you ever replaced the flex leads from the speaker terminal strip to the cone? It can be done, but is very tricky to do since the braid acts like "solder wick" and sucks solder into it making it rigid. I'd be interested in hearing suggestions you may have if you've done that. I've had some success doing it over the years, but when the braid pulls free of the cone itself that gets really difficult. I've not done one for a long time, but one of these days another one will show up and I'd like some new ideas. I'm very impressed with your videos. Wish I'd had some of the knowledge you are offering in them years back when I had to learn by doing. I still love working on old vacuum tube equipment. Not many around that know how to do it these days.
+Paul H Greetings Paul, and thanks for your comments. I'm glad you enjoy the videos. I've had good luck soldering the silver braid over the years, but if you want to prevent it from wicking up the solder, then maybe attaching a heatsink clip (like you use when soldering heat sensitive components) to the braid would prevent wicking of the solder.
+Paul H I would like to hear more about your experience involving speaker pig tails (do and donts)
If by pigtails you mean the wiring connection between the speaker and amp, my main recommendation would be to provide strain relief between the wiring and the speaker terminals, i.e. a metal clamp to secure the wire soon after leaving the terminals, to prevent a snag of the wire from tearing the terminals (and possibly the silver braid) out of the speaker basket.....a condition I have seen and repaired rather often.
+Paul H I would have to test it, but I think if I painted small bands near the ends of the flex leads with something that soaked into the lead on the spot where it was put, it could stop or at least slow the solder from soaking further into the lead. Thus only the ends of the lead get solder on them.
Perhaps a little bit of PVA diluted in water would do the job.
I find it funny when people say don't recone a vintage speaker it will change the way it sounds..
Well unless you knew what it sounded like out of the factory, you're basing your assumption on how it sounded after 40, 50 years of use.
Factory cones are stiff and need breaking in..
I just reconed a JBL D120f 12" it had a rubbing voice coil so didn't know what it sounded like before the issue came up.
All i know it sounds good now and yes it's a bit stiff but with time it will loosen up and relax.
This speaker just made my Custom Built hand wired Deluxe Reverb blessed by God sound now.
I've had at least four speakers in this amp Alnico to ceramic none of them floated my boat.
The JBL has it's own voice..
Think Duane Allman clear articulate woody tone with Humbuckers, decent punch with a strat and gain with pedals sound more open and different in a good way.
Sometimes you have no alternative but to re-cone, Pete, and let's face it, if a speaker is completely worn out or has lots of cone damage, it can only sound better with a re-coning.
i took a chance and "doped" the cloth surrounds using 100% pure silicone glue. its recommended on paper surrounds not so much on cloth. it worked fine for me
That's good to know, Miguel. Thanks.
I used to work with a lot of pure silicone caulk - same chemistry as RTV. To thin the material, and especially to get it off your fingers, denatured alcohol from the hardware store will do it. It was labeled either shellac thinner or denatured alcohol, same stuff. Once the silicone has set though, the alcohol won't do anything so get to it early!
That's a good tip, EJ. I use a Scotch Brite on my hands to remove dried silicon sealer.
Uncle Doug you also effectively "doped" the surround which will translate(depending on the amount used) reduced spikiness in upper mids and treble with having less effect on the extended treble frequencies.Result ='s net loss in upper mids/treble while retaining extended response in the "sparkle" and "air" part of the treble spectrum.Also the speaker is less likely to suffer cone cry now.
Applying contact cement to a heavily used, somewhat floppy old vintage speaker is a remedial action to extend the useful life of an otherwise irreplaceable device. No doubt some (high) frequencies are sacrificed by stiffening the weak suspension, but overall, it's the price you must pay to regain the entire lower to mid-frequency spectrum.....which caused the "floppiness" in the first place.
Yes,I did not mention those benefits as you already have.I only added what I did to let people know the other effects,which,by the way,can be used to deliberately shape the tone.The famed tone of a Celestion Greenback and G12 65 owe in part to the doping used,it smooths out the upper mid spikiness.IE it's not always a "price you pay" but can benefit the tone..depends on what you're after.Thanks for the video btw
You're welcome, ZZ. Thanks for your input :)
Another great video, thanks for these.
You're welcome, Davo. I'm glad you liked it :)
Uncle Doug, I'm a fly tyer and we use a product called softex, which is a very thin clear silicone based product. Thin enough to paint on, yet dries clear and flexible. I think it is made with chlorinated solvents cause it stinks to high heaven. But I'm going to try it on a Jensen 10" that needs to go to rehab. I'll let you know how it works out.
That product sounds perfect for cone reinforcement and repair, GA. One rule of thumb I have found is that the stinkiest and most toxic glues and repair materials always work the best. Please do let us know how it turns out.
+goanglingblues How did that go for you?
Red Corona dope and hemp rolling papers, make the papers black with Sharpie. The Corona dope is spendy though.
Also Titebond liquid hide glue or Old Brown thinned with glycerin will stay flexible and get into the fibers of the cone and the rolling papers.
Just did one with thinned Elmer's school glue (PVA,) but care must taken the cone doesnt get so wet it starts to distort or cave in. That said its my fav for revealing unseen cracks in the pleats.
Thanks for the helpful tips, OAR.
In defense of the use of cheap unconventional techniques, here's one for the record books: I obtained a pair of 1960's era Altec Santana speakers with 15" bi-flex cones for FREE (Ya' gotta love Craigslist!) One of the speakers was completely blown, and the other one had a tear in the cone, but was otherwise functional. Since I had no intention of spending a ridiculous amount of money on them (these vintage Altec speakers are VERY EXPENSIVE to repair!), I just used clear 2" packing tape--the kind that is extremely sticky. I very carefully rejoined the two edges of the tear, and sandwiched the seam between two strips of packing tape, front and back.
I disconnected the tweeter, dug out an old unused 125 watt Onkyo amplifier and connected it to the sub output of my surround system, with the crossover set at 80hz. I had no delusions that it would last more than a couple of hours, but that was two years ago and this monster still shakes the rafters with virtually no significant distortion! One thing about high quality vintage speakers is that they are built like a tank and were designed to be highly efficient -- you get a LOT of SPL's with a relatively small amount of power. It's one of the best subs I've ever owned! Ignore the naysayers and just go for it. Sometimes you'll be pleasantly surprised!
It does sound like an unconventional but very successful repair, Jeff.....and let's face it, successful is all that matters :)
on such materials as this uncle doug ,the damage limitation option
is sometimes as you said, the only one left, if its the best way of
restoring and preserving otherwise obsolete components you can
then it has to be done! and hang the purists ,,nice job that !
Thanks for your support, William :)
I've used "copydex" a latex based adhesive (solvent is water) on the fixing surrounds and even tissue paper and similar (not paper tissues!) with PVA to span tears in the cone - never used a contact adhesive though, no idea what the nearest UK equivalent to Weldwood would be.......... EVOstick?? (a nasty browny / beige solvent based adhesive)
I'll definitely try using a silicone for little repairs.
thanks again for all your work in making these great vids.
You're welcome, Mike. Your comment will now offer advice to future viewers. Thanks for your input :)
Thank you for a straight forward, knowledgeable, no nonsense video.
I swear, I've been watching toothless yokels for 2-hours, who have all obviously been huffing more of their glue than using it to fix speakers. So frustrating!
Thank you!
You're quite welcome, Tommy. I had to laugh over the image you described with the toothless huffers :):):) Best of luck with your projects.
works like a charm...thank you!
Glad to hear it, Marty :)
Thanks again, CD, and good luck !!!
thanks ! found a vintage pevey 4 12 cab in a junk pile .did all your steps ! let ya know when im done !
I hope the four "patients" all make a complete recovery, Chris. Good luck.
Much pleasure enjoyment fulfilled satisfying accomplishment from formula brought forward to great heights atop cone.......Lets turn off Babel for a sec...Uncle Doug you're my favorite, always great vids and an excellent sense of humor.Greetings from down under.
Greetings to you, George, from the Sunny Southwest, USA. Thanks so much for your very nice comments :)
Hey thanks for your reply uncle I'm so grateful you actually replied to my first ever comment.You're awesome.
You're welcome, George. Rusty and I try to respond to all comments, time permitting.
Weldwood, my head is still spinning from the last time I used that stuff. Adequate ventilation is beyond a must with this stuff.
Rusty and I experienced some vivid hallucinations, robbed a 7-11, and were hung over for 3 days, US, but other than that.....no problems :)
I would definitely use contact cement on paper, rubber, or cloth surrounds, but not on foam. I have found that solvent-based adhesives like rubber cement have toluene or ketones that react with foam and off-gas, and actually weaken it, especially if it's a urethane-based foam.
I agree completely. I only work on vintage guitar amps, which have paper surrounds. The foam surrounds are generally found in HiFi and stereo speakers, and would probably be damaged or destroyed if volatile solvents were applied. Thanks for your input.
Uncle Doug You're welcome, and thanks for a great video.
this is an awesome video im doing this on a speaker tear on an jensen 5pm 15inch which are so hard to find i have three tears so i hope it works !
I hope so too, Johnny. Best of luck !!
jensen are awesome!
I Have this Speaker it has a tall alnico magnet and IS one of my favorite Guitar speaker i used a pair in a fender Twin till i got some Jbl d120f and a jbl d131 ..which is my fav sounding but now switching due to Weight.. to Phillips traynor speakers ..In fact i have one like yours that's been re coned and sounds like crap cause they use "krapton" plastic voice coil formers then the original Paper, higher power but less highs.. thanks for the tip :) ...i always used to use clear/black silicon
Greetings, B2. Your opinion of Kapton VC forms is shared by others. Here is an excellent discussion of the issue: wgs4.com/paper-or-plastic-great-kapton-vs-paper-voice-coil-former-question I think re-coning any vintage speaker is a real gamble. Sometimes you have no choice.....i.e. the cone and/or VC are utterly destroyed.....but if you can repair the original cone or reattach a VC wire, then IMHO you are always better off sticking with the original parts.
Thanks for the interesting link ..but the 1st use of krapton was used by Jensen in '63 as was the ceramic magnets ...Your so right as I have a JBL D131 I fixed and had one that had a new recone kit ..it was like night and day the Old Org one was Way better and the new sounded like my strings were dead, but like you said have no choice some times .. i hate when people recone when all they need is a new cone while the voice coil could of been reused...Always loved Vintage speakers and to play each one on a tube amp for the guitar Altec 417 is my next Fav ..Thanks for replying
I take that back if it is a paper edge (One peace cone). However it could be done but would change the performance of the speaker. If the cone is not damaged the edge can be trimmed so it can have a foam edge replacement there are many examples of re-foaming a speaker cone on UA-cam and the net.
I wasn't rolling MY eyes. Not at all. Great tip and I am going to do it.
Carl Rudd Glad you liked it, Carl. Let us know how it turns out.
Doug.... it's an 8" Rola in the SUPRO 'Special' I mentioned in that other video. :)
Congrats on 100k Doug! Things sure have blown past being precious about talking about a farting speaker. That was certainly a better time.
Thanks, Rich :)
Thank you for the info ,the glue you are talking about is that that aleenes,s glue
I'm not familiar with the glue you named, Ron. The brush-on contact cement is made by Titebond and has the volatile (not water-based) solvent.
Brilliant technique!
Thanks, Sharky :)
Awesome work unc, as usual.
Thanks, George :)
Barge contact cement. Thirty bucks a quart. I went to a shoe repair shop and wrangled the secret from that dude about 35 years ago because I couldn't afford shoes. That stuff is a miracle and is flexible and if you add tissue between layers it's like kevlar. I'm sure Weldwood is alright, I'm sticking with the shoemakers.
I don't blame you, B. It sounds like a good product.
Hi, UD! ... Still love your videos.
Glad you still like them, David :)
Customs knocked a hole in the cone of a speaker I ordered from England. Bout the size of a nickel. About midway down the cone on the ribs.
Patch the hole. Since it's not on the flexible suspension rings, the patch can be simply glued in place with Elmer's (or similar) glue. I use black paper from an old photo album/scrap book.
What a great video and great advice! I love this sort of thing - there is so much you can do with relatively simple materials. I've never done this on a speaker before, but I've found in other projects that when spreading something like silicone with my finger, I can get a better and smoother spread with less silicone if I simply lick my fingertip before spreading it. This keeps the silicone from sticking as much and
I have a couple questions. First of all, has anyone considered warming the contact cement first? I'm wondering if this might help it to permeate the paper? Or maybe thinning it is best?
Secondly, does this change the sound characteristics of the speaker much? I'm thinking it might raise the resonant frequency. I have just recently purchased a beautiful old Philips Capella radio with 800 ohm AD3800AM speakers in it. These radios and speakers are legendary for their clarity, but it's over 50 years old. The speakers are in good shape now, but I'm thinking now might be the time to take some steps to ensure they stay good for another 50. I've read articles about people cutting the paper surround and replacing it with foam (Audiofriends sells them), but that seems a little drastic. I would much rather preserve the paper already there, but want to change the characteristics of the speaker as little as possible.
Greetings and thanks, Kurt. Heating the contact cement does indeed thin its consistency and improve its penetration into the paper. I only apply the contact cement to speakers with weakened/worn cone surrounds and it does brighten them up a bit, reducing the tendency to "flub" and noticeably improving sound clarity. Re your radio speakers, if they are functioning well, then I probably would not recommend any rejuvenation procedures. I'm a firm believer in not fixing what isn't broken. If they get a little "flubby" after a few years, maybe then......but that's just my (very conservative) opinion. Being involved only with vintage guitar tube amps, I have no use for, or experience with, foam surrounds. The only place I have encountered them is in speakers within sealed HiFi cabinets, where the enclosed-air back pressure limits their excursion. Best of luck with your Philips radio and other projects :)
i use a silicone sealer spray on the entire paper with the contact cement surround
i do this on all the speakers i retrieve on old home spinet organs... i like the old tube power amps from the hammonds and the conn organs
Thanks for the tip, Steve.
I been wondering for a while why no one uses silicone,it's cheap ,it's long lasting and it's flexable,I have a pencil size hole in my speaker i made removing a circuit board,I hope it works as well for me as it did for you ,they sell silicone at the 99 cent only store in clear and black .
I've heard that silicone will eventually harm the paper cone due to a chemical interaction, Ron, but have never personally witnessed this problem. It seems to be effective in the flexible surround area, while in the rigid portion of the cone I prefer aliphatic resin glue and a small piece of black paper to patch the hole.
Excellent tutorial and advise..
Thank you
You're welcome, AK.
Hi doug.. great videos! I have a 1965 jensen C8 in a tweed amp. I think it was an organ pull. the felt dust cap has pulled away and some of the cap is missing!
Probably need a recone :(
That’s a nice speaker. Very mild damage to the moving parts, worth a lot of money for being in good shape
You kidding?
Frederick Luther what?
Why would it be worth anything?
It's likely a low grade alnico magnet driver
Frederick Luther antique stores
Thank you sir!
You're welcome :)
Nice video, thanks for the tip.
You're welcome, BH. Regards to the handsome pup in your photo.
Thanks doug i will take a closer look!
Great channel!
So basically, you are using contact cement (different from rubber cement?) to recreate the rubber (or foam) surround of the speaker, correct? I need to repair some small poke holes from cat claws on a subwoofer with a foam surround. I have no issue with completely costing it with the product. It must remain very flexible. I have two other speakers with soft rubber surrounds that had a couple of pokes. Unfortunately, I followed bad advice and used Shoe Goo to repair those. Which, caused a bigger problem, it is very thick and clumpy. There was no way to thin it out once it was applied to the surround. I don’t know how I’m going to remove it to get back to a point of having a small repair that can easily be sealed. I think I’ll have to use a light sandpaper and very carefully sand away the Shoe Goo. The areas that have it may even have to be cut to complete remove it, leaving a gap, I don’t know. If there are tears in the surround from sanding, I’m not exactly sure what I will use to fill those tears, then seal them with the silicone, and finally covering with the contact cement.
A simple question I suppose, how can these two products be used to reconstruct small portions of a rubber or foam speaker surround?
Thanks.
Nothing can reconstruct a foam surround, Dave, and attempting to do so will result in disaster.....as you discovered. Contact cement can only reinforce a worn paper surround, and cannot patch holes. Silicon cement can patch small holes.
@@UncleDoug I did manage to get the Shoe Goo off. I used Goo Be Gone and very carefully peeled the Shoe Goo off. A three inch strip took 2 hours LOL.
Greetings, James, and thanks for your input. Do you have a video or Internet reference that explains how this is done?
Great as per usual U.D.
Thanks, Phil :)
Uncle Doug, do you have any advice or a video on the topic of replacing a voice coil while retaining the cone in place? I two 15 inch speakers to repair, both with cones that appear good; they are 15 inch Electro voice (EVM 15L) and JBL (E130) speakers which I think date back to the early 80’s.
No video on that specific topic, C, but it involves surgically removing the VC from the spider and cone, then reinstalling a new VC. It's simply a matter of careful surgery ;)
I have two old Magnavox 12" field coil speakers from 1947 and they both need to be reconed but I can not find the materials to do it. Do you know either where to get the materials or a reputable reconing company that I could send them to for a recone?
Contact the people at the Speaker Exchange to see if they can help. Good luck.
Uncle Doug, as a reminder I now own one of your rebuilt speaker cabs. Well, the cone has a crack in it, as of today. Is this still a reasonable fix, or do you have another option? Thanks and Happy New Year.
It depends on where the crack is located, Louis, but this method would be a very simply and inexpensive way to fix it, if it can be repaired.
Hi Uncle Doug, I reinforced the edge of a speaker with Titebond and black dye. Maybe it works for you as well
I will keep that in mind, CG. Thanks for the tip :)
Greetings Uncle Doug--
Happy Holidays, and thanks for the education. I'm rapidly learning a rare skill set. This episode was especially revealing. I've got a 10", 5w Marsland with an app. 1oz. alnico magnet (ca. 1950). Came from a butchered old Regal guitar amp. The amp section was a basket case, and the speaker cone cracks when it is touched. Can contact cement be used to rejuvenate the whole cone? If so, is there any way to thin the contact cement to minimize added weight to preserve the original motor resonance, and break-up characteristics?
Cheers.
Greetings, Stephen. A cone that cracks when you touch it may be too far gone for this process, but you can thin the contact cement with lacquer thinner and gently apply a couple thinned coats. Good luck.
@@UncleDoug Thanks. I'll try that. I like the speaker.
copydex and rizlas is also a long lasting but unsightly cone repair :-)
I'm not familiar with either material, FW, but will take your word for it.
Thank you for this great video!
+SiliconSet You're welcome, SS :)
Silicone didn’t quite do the job for me. I peeled the silicone off and used tissue paper and elmer’s glue that seemed to work for hole in the cone.
That's a fine solution as long as the stiff patch does not affect the flexible perimeter of the cone.
Wonderful tip. Thanks
You're welcome :)
Although this is an older thread, here goes: I have an old 2001 BMW 325i that my son drives. It has a 2 ohm sound (3 speaker-tweeter, mid, woofer system and 3 speakers per door (paper cones by HAES). I bought original replacement HAES 6 1/2 lower speakers online. they look new. I would like to "condition" the Paper cones, and the surrounds before I put them in. Can you suggest what to apply to the paper cone, and what to apply to the surrounds to keep them lasting longer? Thanks!
This more of a "HiFi" question than one relating to vintage tube guitar amp speakers, David. I am not familiar with the concept of conditioning cones. Sorry....perhaps another site or forum could help you..
Great video. I just pulled the speakers and horns out of a 1962 Magnavox console. Console has been previously gutted by others. Are these old speakers (decent shape) worth anything beyond EBay selling?
And can I assume just 8 ohms to operate? Looks just like the one in this video.
If I made a speaker box, I may just be wasting my time, I'm thinking??
Thanks
Radio/stereo speakers rarely have adequate cone strength to serve as guitar speakers. They will tend to blubber when driven.....but you're welcome to test this hypothesis for yourself. Let us know how it turns out
@@UncleDoug Wasn't referring to guitar amps. Music amp
@@TheBigfoot567 Naturally they will work for radio or phonograph music, Bill......that's what they were built to do.
@@UncleDoug you're a cornucopia of valuable information.
very good, thank you for sharing, its very much appreciated, I think its a good idea
You're welcome, David. Thanks !!!
Great video. Thank you!
You're welcome, Jorge. I'm glad you liked the video :)
Hi Doug really like your videos. Whats the black silicon stuff called and where might i buy some. Thanks Ed.
Hey UD....am I missing a trick or are you using normal tube type silicone? And are you thinning it? Cheers.... UD..
I use straight, undiluted Weldwood Contact Cement, original formula......not water-based.
Cheers for the quick responce UD....but didnt you mention silicone at the beginging for repairing the tear? Thats the same position my tear is and was hoping to do the same thing...thanks UD...
I fix small cracks and tears with a coffee filter and Elmer's glue.
Flexible fabric glue works better than the basic Elmer's. It dries clear and stays flexible.
Dear, Dr. Doug,
What if its completely cracked all the way around the perimeter. I know with newer more modern speakers its called "refoaming" but what about when this happens with an old, pre plasic, paper speaker such as yours?
Seriously Detached,
All The Way Around
I'm sorry to report, Ben, that full perimeter detachment is "the end of the hunt", as an old friend used to call totally lost causes. It's time to call the Speaker Exchange and order a re-coning kit :)
@@UncleDoug What speaker replacement would you be inclined to seek out for a worthy replacement if you had an early 60's Alamo Titan guitar amp? Thanks for the Reply! 🔥🌌
@@benwright6330 Greetings, Ben. I think the choice of speaker is based more on the needs of the player than on the amp itself. Ceramics are relatively warm and mellow, while Alnicos are much more expensive and offer clarity and definition.