My ex thought that swords were 10 to 20 lbs before I had her pick up one of my swords she was so shocked how light they are. It was kind of funny as she was bracing her self to lift "20 lbs" worth of steel
Honestly, I also thought they were heavy as well, until I remember that the last time I attempted to hold an actual sword (an old saber my grandfather had, I believe) was when I was in elementary school... no WONDER!! 🤣
I keep trying to tell one of my friends that they're not heavy. He keeps saying, "Look how long it is!" It doesn't matter how many times I try to point out how thin it is. Things are easily 50+lbs and ain't nobody teaching him different. 😂
@@SamBrockmannTbf, 10 pounds is easier lifted holding it either in the middle, or cradling it from underneath. Whether in a bag or in hand directly. Besides, it sounds even more when it's an unknown object, which you don't know much about. Because the blade is so much longer than the grip, a novice might think it to be top-heavy... Her expectations were from the perspective of unfamiliarity, remember. Seeing things from the other person's perspective would serve you well. 😊
When I first saw that movie as a kid, I remember wondering "how could he turn a straight sword into a curve sword with just a grinding wheel?"...... movie magic
Movie ideas of how to make or modify swords has always been really painful to watch. Conan's father casting a "steel" sword has got to be the most obvious.
“Lo, there do I see my broadsword. Lo, there do I see my scimitar, and my tulwar, and my messer. Lo, there do I see the line of my bladed weapons, Back to the beginning! Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my pick among them, In the halls of Shadiversity! Where Shad may expound forever!”
Yea I love this, because for all intents and purposes, this movie could be a depiction of the story of beowulf really came to be. Antonio played a poet, scholar, ambassador. Perhaps when he returns he wrote the epic poem we know and love today.
@@sabalmal1288 The original novel (Eaters of the Dead) was written by Michael Crighton(sp?) based on the memoirs of the real Ahmed ibn La'Ahad, who really did travel to Viking lands (specifically, the Rus tribe). The first part of the book (and movie) is almost 1 for 1 with said memoirs, most notably the funeral. After that comes the retelling of Beowulf. Which, by the way, predated Ahmed and the Rus by about 5 centuries.
All Vikings are from Asgard. That's why they are able to wield such refined robust weaponry forged in the heart of Alpha Tauri. < It's a millisecond Pulsar in Section 14 of the Beta Quadrant.
I always take scenes 'I can't hold this.' As 'I can't wield this.' Telling a rapier expert to wield a bastard 2 handed sword. The rapier expert are out of their element. They will complain.
Yoikes. Talk to HEMA people who teach both rapier and longsword. The longsword person will complain about the rapier's weight, not the other way around. 2 hands is a lot of leverage, and you don't stand there holding a sword out at arm's length like a nasty shoulder raise.
This is one of my favorite films, despite its a-historical goofiness. Thank you, Shad, for giving _The 13th Warrior_ its due where it deserves it and pointing out its silliness when it’s warranted.
Despite their Hollywood esc errors, the entire 1st half of the movie before he departs with the band of warriors is entirely based on true accounts from a manuscript written by a Arab in that time period. After that the movie was entirely flipped into a Beowulf esc adventure. For reference look at Eaters of the Dead by Michael Chriton
The historical accuracy of the account is questionable. There WAS an account, yes, but whether it was accurate or not is debatable, but yes, that's where the core concept comes from here, which is a very interesting premise to take. Mixing historical accounts (debatable accuracy or not) with local myth and legend. Honestly always thought they could do the same thing with the New World where the old myths and legends of native American tribes combined with the accounts of French or Spanish explorers/traders/trappers type thing. If you've never read some of those accounts (again, very subjective and often not entirely accurate), they're very interesting.
@@MST3Killa "Indian tribes" is the correct technical term historically (and the legal term in the USA). They were never called "Native American" except by certain misanthropes trying to falsify history in the past few decades. At best, you can use "American Indian" to differentiate from "Subcontinental Indian"...incidentally, the American Indian tribes didn't have a word for their "Race" because they never had a CONCEPT of "Race"...they didn't realize that different races of people existed until they met Europeans. Whether it was the Wampanoag to the Aztecs, most famously, the only American Indian "word/concept" that resembled the term "Race" was their word for "gods/spirit" (which is the word they used initially for White people)....they themselves took on the word "Red Man" and "Indian" which has been the proper term for about 600 years (the naming convention is actually millennia old, but Columbus essentially got it right...unless you want to pretend that these Tribes are named after a White Man (after all, THAT naming convention is in lieu of another Italian named Amerigo Vespucci). People who pretend that "Native American" is supposed to be their name are FAR more ignorant than they pretend Christopher Columbus was (Columbus was actually one of the most knowledgeable and worldly people on Earth...especially compared to the ignorant tribesman he encountered who didn't even have a written language, mathematics, never invented the wheel, etc)
I think the "I can't lift it " moment is a language limitation, remember he just learned their language so i think he meant that he prefers a lighter sword not a literal i cant lift this while holding the sword. Also its possible that the vikings still didnt have a lot of trust in him and deliberately gave him an overly heavy sword to see what he would do. Not all swords are made the same and the skills of a blacksmith can vastly vary. That could have been an apprentice blade that was far too heavy.
He was most likely hyperbolic and exaggerated. The second point does not sound very likely, more likely they would give him something they viewed as a toy or for a child.
Yeah, “I listened!” only goes so far. Getting tenses right, learning to stack adjectives and using adverbs, not to mention what are called turns of speech like metaphors and similes, requires long immersion. Plus there are the “poetic” aspects of both the Norse he was learning and the Arabic he knew to confuse matters more. I don’t doubt that to the Vikings he sounded like a child just learning to speak. That he was at all able to hold sensible conversations after only a few weeks of travel with its very selective immersion in whatever they talked about on the trip is pretty darn impressive, yet believable (to me anyway).
In the book, I believe it was a plot point that either the sword was just a weighted training weapon or just a, well, crap weapon that they'd gotten at some point and none of them wanted to use, Ibn also hadn't used a sword for years before that. It was also a larger weapon if I remember right which was also out of what little instruction he'd already had. He's an exiled noble and a scholar, wasn't really trained as a warrior either... But someone with a little training with a light, one handed sword (Probably a really expensive and custom one for him) who is way out of practice getting tossed a longsword (or what most refer to as a bastard sword) that isn't weighted properly and quite trash (or designed to add more to training that way) isn't going to really know what to do with it and his lack of real athletic prowess wouldn't help either there...the early parts kind of had him getting into shape as part of it.
I mean this isn’t about not having the upper body strength to lift the sword literally into the air but of the kind of leverage forces your lower arms muscles have to deal with wielding an long and more massive sword. The difference in that regard is much more noticeable than pure bulk weight of the sword itself. A skilled swordsman like our arab protagonist would notice that immediately
Not quite, since at the time, most Middle Eastern swords were also straight-bladed. Curved blades didn't really catch on until after the arrival of the Turks at earliest, and absolutely after the Mongol conquests, so I feel he would have been rather familiar with he shape. That said, _this_ line still works better than the original. You know?
Arabian swords from that era used blades that were indistinguishable from Viking swords, but the hilts tended to be different. His problem with the sword should have been the large pommel which is uncomfortable to use except with a hammer grip.
in the book eaters of the dead, banderas character says i can't wield that it is not in my style indicating he does not know how to use a double edged sword, the movie translates that into oh it's to heavy.
To be fair, those props look at least half as big again as the swords you have there. Also as a side note, my cousin got to be an extra in this film, the little blond girl going into the bunker before the final fight at the end. Somewhat underrated, definitely has several problems, but still a charming and fun film.
How is Shad like a sword? They both "exist on a bit of a spectrum". (2:37) "Oh heck no. We are gonna need to clean this blade before I can even talk about it." 👌👍
@@skeome Yes, but while modern Norwegian evolved from old Norse, there is a reason why they are considered different languages now. Some words however, are still similar or the same, like "sverd".
@TheHornedKing I'm not trying to be pedantic about linguistics, I just wanted to say that it makes sense that "sverd" stayed the same from Old Norse to Modern Norwegian, just like how "sword" stayed the same from Olde English to Modern English
@DH-rj2kv ð is a soft d, kind of like d(th) Edit: or a very hard th, like if somebody repeatedly asked where something was (that's right in front of them) and you get fed up and shout/hiss "THERE" Or if you were to say Blade and Lathe at the same time
It is like in video games. When he was holding the sword as weapon, he does not have enough strength to use it. But he can perfectly hold 10 such sword in him inventory without any issues at all.
One of the coolest things I ever learned about 13th Warrior was about the settlement were actually built and the cast and crew actually lived In them! Definitely a favorite movie of mine!
Tread lightly, Shad, this is one of my favorite movies! XD Also, could we possible get an update on your medieval novel? Or the next volume of the Shadow of the Conqueror Graphic Novel....?
As a spaniard I'm so proud of Antonio Banderas for being one of our best actors that has made it to Hollywood. I also love 13th warrior for being one of the few fantasy medieval movies that has horror themes.
This and Desperado were my favourites from him, with a special shoutout to the training scene from Zorro. "Do you know how to use that thing?" "Sure I do, the pointy end goes into the other man!"
I think the conquistador armor wearing guy that gets left behind in the cave would deserve a video on just how out of place his armor as well as the head vikings and others are for the movie. Assuming it hasen't been done already!
The movie is just plain fun. Yes, they exaggerated the weight of the swords in several parts, but I accepted it as artistic license. Another movie that was overall fun and of a similar time period was Outlander. The disservice to representing the swords of the time were much worse, but an enjoyable watch blending historic fantasy and sci-fi.
Antonio banderas's character really was a real person The 13th warrior is based off a 1300 account of a Muslim diplomat going with North warriors to a Norse settlement fighting something supernatural that actually wasn't supernatural. Michael Crichton wrote the book and I forgot the title but they changed it to the 13th warrior that account that he wrote about was a real story. This really did happen but probably not how it's just expected in the movie.
@@Darth_Traitorous the book title is Eaters of the Dead. I remember seeing a Behind the Scenes clip for the movie where they said they wanted to change the title because it made it sound less like a horror movie.
I grew up with this movie.. out playing with sticks every time i watched it, beeing Norwegian and all..even have viking graves on my property😄 i was so ready to be offended on behalf of my childhood memory..but you had as always many good points and made a fun to watch review 😊😊 happy holidays to you 🎉
if memory serves he was still learning the language at this point entirely by ear.. so its not that much of a stretch to think he used a smiliar yet more basic word like "lift" instead of a more complicated " weild this efficently".. languages are hard.. so yeah context adds alot.. also its 1 thing to compare swords made with modern materials mass produced and find them somewhat similar in weight.. its another entirely to compare weapons made at the time ( if any still exist, other than the rare very well made ones.. ) the type an average person would have access to.. its quite likely an average sword of the time was infact heavier ( comparitively) by quite a bit.. 1 other thing is.. the weiht difference of even a few pounds on a weapon can make alot of difference, in stresses on body while weilding it .. if u train exclusively with a sword weighing 1kg and then get handed one weighing 1.2kg ( auguably not a big difference) and use it the same way you have trained.. you would in short order have sore wrist elbow shoulder etc.. hell look at tennis players for instance.. the difference of a few onces on a racket can course injury over a few matches.. just my 2c
I loved the film "The Thirteenth Warrior" when I first saw the sceens you are referring to, I didn't take it as a representation of the difference in the two swords. I took it as a representation of the difference in the strength of the two characters.
One of my favorite lines from regarding that movie is "Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing." And boy has me and some friends gotten good mileage out of the sword jokes as well over the years, good times... And as so many have pointed out it could have been a badly balanced blade that he simply wasn't used to.
It's been long since I saw The 13th Warrior. If I recall correctly, when Banderas said that he can't lift the viking sword, I think he was trying to say that he was not trained with it and may get tired in a long fught. When he altered it into a curved one, he was able to do some moves with ease just as Shad mentioned here.
@@DustinDonald-cz9ot There's also balance and how you would be moving it. Especially in a fight or more. In the book, they also give him the only extra blade they have which was a larger size as well.
Unfortunately, a lot of the fuckups are more due to the way details are handled...hard for a lot of things to be explained in a movie without a direct info-dump that doesn't really work.
Shad, I am surprised you did not mention that flail-thing the one guy used. LOL! I know you love flails...LOL! I agree 'thirteenth warrior' was a great movie. between the banter and that poem it is a classic. Great video!
The Arab sword at the time was a double edge single handed sword that pretty resembled a Viking sword they didn’t start using Tulwar till later after the Turk and mongol invasions.
It was also used during the Abbasid reign, when they started using Turkish mercenaries and Mamluks during the Amin vs Ma'mun civil war, but not as widespread as later stages especially post Seljuk takeover.
Since the vikings in several scenes try to ridicule the "Arab", they probably did not give him the best sword they had, but a rather heavy one. When it comes to fighting the depiction of the stability of viking shields in the movie is much more a concern to me. Shields broken with 2 to 4 blows to them, makes them quite obsolete.
I remember that scene and the guy the Arab's friend was fighting was a massive clumsy dude that relied on pure strength and was just trying to break things so not surprised he was able to cause enough splintering to break the shield.
@@donovanbradford8231 That would be a nice new video idea for Shad: What does it take to destroy a viking shield with a sword from the corresponding time? I bet you would be surprised how durable they are. ^^
Fun fact, Ulfbert swords were made with crucible steel that was traded from the Middle East. The Vikings didn't usually have the means to make crucible steel, so they bought it from traders who got it from the Middle East.
1. the sword that is thrown to him is a two handed sword. 2. Antonio character is made fun of for how much smaller he is throughout the film. like “only an arab would bring a dog to war” making fun of his much smaller horse. or “put your hand down little brother” when he is trying to look into the distance once they are at the village. 3. Ahmed Ebinn falahse was a POET!! so its automatically assumed he never did any sort of manual labor let alone used a large ‘heavier’ sword.
I’ve been watching a bunch of meteor hammer videos (tutorials, a bunch of people breaking ice and stuff like that) Can you PLEASE do some kind of short or anything on how practical they are as a weapon??? Like with how much power some people can get, it almost turns into a mace. Could it be useful against plate armor?
I'm not sure the line was meant literally but rather a more general objection that he was unsuited to using that sword. I believe his character was a poet kicked out of the kingdom for seducing the wife of an important noble.
Antonio is not a big man. If they threw him a broadsword just to mess with him it all makes sense. Neanderthals riding horses with saddles, well, not so much.
🤨The scene in the first GLADIATOR movie where Commodus was spinning the sword while being briefed by his counsel... i remember watching that movie and remember thinking "😧Ouch! Don't do that! You're gonna ruin the tip of the blade!"
I think you're overthinking this movie, and this scene in particular. At this point in the movie, Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan had only just learned the Scandinavian language, and would not be fluent in the nuances and intricacies of the language. This makes the exchange a translation issue, not a statement of fact. While the script might have said "I cannot lift this", that is the basic Scandinavian translation. It is possible that the Arabic translation of the intended statement is more along the lines of "This is heavier than I'm used to, I won't be able to use it for long". This would make sense in the context, because Ahmed is still only in the early stages of learning a new completely unrelated language, and it wouldn't be until later in the movie that he'd be able to understand more of the nuance of the language. Ahmed's belief that the sword was "too heavy" could have been exacerbated by differences in sword style, construction/forging, and steel quality. While there is evidence that some Vikings were buried with high carbon steel swords (Ulfburht), recent-ish investigation has suggested that the swords were not European forged blades. The sword he was given was almost certainly not a high carbon steel sword. While Scandinavians were capable of producing above average quality steel, it was not typical, and therefore a lower quality blade would have been more likely. Arabic steel on the other hand was typically of a better quality, higher carbon content, and was commonly traded across Europe. In addition, it is clear that the style of the sword was unlike any he had ever encountered before. It was a wide double edged sword intended for armored combat, of lower quality steel, as opposed to the single edge narrow sword of higher quality steel that was designed for lightly armored combat, that he was used to. The differences would easily explain the viking sword being twice the weight of Ahmed's preferred sword, and consequently his statement "This is heavier than I'm used to". Finally, while the clumsiness Ahmed displays when trying to assist building the fortifications is almost certainly just a Hollywood-ism, it can justifiably be attributed to the differences in the sword styles and quality, as it was the first time he'd tried to use the weapon. I suspect that you'd encounter similar antics from a Musketeer used to a rapier, trying to use a Zweihänder for the first time. His regrinding the sword to be more suited to his training is a tragic, but understandable response to being given a weapon that he does not have the time to train with properly before being thrust into another combat situation.
I can't believe you didn't mention the full plate, the gladiator murmillo helmet that has been out of use for half a millennia, the conquistador helmet that won't exist for another millennia, and the fact it was worn by Vikings in the 6-8 century.
Have you looked at the BBC series from the 1980s called Robin of Sherwood? Nasir, who is a Saracen, uses two swords and the general use of sword play is seen throughout of the 28 April 1984 to 28 June 1986 series.
I think he has done a video on that movie. Pretty sure it was him reviewing th accuracies and inaccuracies of the film. I could be misremembering though to.
I absolutely loved that show, at least the first two seasons with Michael Praed as Robin. Everyone involved in the making of that show clearly had a passion for what they were doing. Nasir was very cool "a killing machine from Palestine" I think they called him. Superb soundtrack by Clannad ! I own the Blu-ray set, I must rewatch it soon !
I watched this movie recently and couldn't wait for you to look at it! I'm shocked that you didn't say more about the ludicrous assumption that a grinding stone can magically transform the entire shape of a sword.
Love the film. The one-liners in it are great. Shad, I'm loving the frequent shorter videos. I know that you mentioned that you want to produce the longer form higher production value content and I agree that the platform needs that kind of content because it's awesome. There is something to be said for this content that is more 'digestible' in shorter time periods. I work from home and have yt on in the background while I am working and this shorter form content is much more compatible with how I work. Thanks!
I always assumed that him complaining about the weight was more Just him finding a reason to bitch about their different cultural weapons. Considering in the start of the movie he has such a higher opinion of his culture versus theirs.
Hello Shad (Norwegian here) , I don't know if you will read this, but i do disagree in calling the "Viking Sword" for "Sverd", You compare it to the Katana (meaning sword), the difference being that the japense used Katanas as late as WW2. while sword evolution in Norway (and the rest of scandinavia) followed the rest of europe, ecspecially germany. and still called the new, more modern swords for "sverd" as well. just some feedback from a norwegian sword enthusiast :-) Love your content and I've just re-read your book for the third time! continue the good work you're doing, it is really interessting - Erik
Totally agree with you here as a fellow scandinavian. Calling it a ”sverd” runs the risk of being confusing since it still is the word that scandinavians use as the umbrella-term for all swords. And the justification for it doesn’t hold up as you say, when most other examples are a specific descriptive name of what the swords are or how they are used, e.g. Zweihänder and langmesser. So though ”sverd” wouldn’t necessarily be incorrect, it isn’t more correct than calling it a sword. My recommendation would be to call it ”early medieval ’insert region/cultural group’ sword”.
But that's exactly Shad's point. That most cultures called their swords just "Sword" in their language for most of the time while swords where actually used, and that the naming of each different type of sword with a different name is a modern thing.
I don't know what he's even trying to do, other than put his own mark on culture. The "problem" here is that there is nothing "viking" about this broad style of sword. I would say that, when most say "viking sword", they're *at least* talking about a broadly Germanic early medieval style of sword, but we could maybe stretch it further to Europe more widely. Not to say that there weren't specific styles of sword that could be identified as Nordic, but almost nobody using "viking" cares about that level of detail. "Early medieval sword" is, most of the time, a way better term to use. There is truly no reason whatsoever to link this broad sword type to Scandyland at all - never mind a small subculture within Scandinavia ("vikings"). Did early medieval Scandinavians make a lot of these swords? No. It was one of the least productive areas of Europe - and most swords in Scandinavia weren't even made there. Did they use them more than anyone else? No. In fact there were less swords in Scandinavia than most surrounding areas. It's wild to think that we're still dealing with Nordic supremacist baggage from the 1800's - 1900's. Talk about twisting history. That grinds my gears - as you can tell.
@@Herbert_Eder While he's wholly missing the point that there's nothing "viking", or "Nordic" about a style of sword used across Europe, almost all of which weren't made in Scandinavian. Should we call every kind of sword used in England (this style of early medieval European sword amongst them) "sword"? As always it's a balance of ease of speech, and clearness. This broad style of sword is a "early medieval european sword", or "early medieval sword". Easy.
I had a more sophisticated take on the scene. While I’ve never trained in sword fighting, I have done a lot of bushcraft. I understood Ian’s “weight” claim to be more a statement as to the overall size and balance of the sword he’s given. Note that he comments even before handling the sword; about the only thing he could have been sure of was that it was too long for him. In the film Ibn is shown as substantially shorter and of a slighter build than most of the Vikings. “Grow stronger.” I suspect that the Vikings did not carry much in the way of “spare” gear. Ibn is being told to shut up and make it do. Where was Ibn’s sword? As a captive, I expect he was kept unarmed up to that point by his captors. Too heavy? I understood this to be a reference to different fighting styles. I think we’re contrasting two-handed combat with a single-arm slashing style.Thus, Ibn would expect a sword to be much lighter, with a more neutral balance. Ibn’s style stressed speed and agility over raw power. The only thing I found impossible was Ibn’s ability to turn a long, thick, heavy sword into a gracefully curved blade using only a grindstone. As for the wood chopping . . . For that you need a more forward balance (think “Kukri” or axe) rather than grace and speed. That was pure Hollywood. Indeed, these were VIKINGS. They had plenty of axes. The use of any kind of sword for the task was silly. All a swift, light blade would excel at would be in trimming pine branches off the trunk.
One error you made sorry, Ibn was at no stage a captive. He had gone to trade with the Norse and then been selected as the 13th Warrior on their quest. Was he initially treated as an outsider? Definitely, but not a captive.
Love the film. Sometimes you have to let reality go and just enjoy the entertainment. Toys don’t come alive when you leave the room but Toy Story is a good film.
When dealing with Nors people weaponry from the Viking era. You need to remember that they did a destinktion betwin the Seax and the Sveard. The former was primarily a self defense or backup weapon, and the later was a status symbol while filling the same role. A Seax were "cruder" and shorter and made with lower quality steel and in some cases essentially iron with a bit of coal in it. Axes were primarily used as tools in combat, and doubled as weapons. I say tools sins their function was to bake down or remove/hock obstakels (shields as an example). I believe one of the reasons the axe is so connected to norse raiders on a viking, is their use in breaking down doors during a raid. Thus being one of the weapons aye witnesses would talk about. Bows were quite prominent as a battle weapon as well. largely sins a lot of norse people would be proficient with them for various reasons. Also sins they were used to secure landings in hostile territory. There is an account in one of the sagas, were they landed in to a village. The bowmen made sure the melee fighter could get off the boat without getting overwhelmed by the defenders. In general they were used to soften up enemies, take out targets, and secure the advance of the melee soldiers. The primary weapon of the norse warriors were various forms of spears. Variating in length and form depending on their primary use and battle tactics. And almost always in combination with a shield. You also need to remember that shields were designed to break and trap weapons to a degree. So quite often towards an end of a battle a lot of norse warriors would be without one, and might use their backup weapon as a blocking tool. Thus creating the idea of the dual wielding viking, ve se to often in media. This is ofc generally speaking. There were exceptions to this, based on situations and personal preferences. As well as variation during the several hundred years they of the viking era. The warius stories that exist in regard to Norse Warriors, will often depict the exceptions more thuruly, sin they are exemptions. Especially the stories told by their enemies. As well as you need to remember that they Nors way of telling a battle story is more based on "rule of cool" than the actual truth. The truth is there, but if something sounds cool and could be feasible, they would include it in the story.
Sverd in Norwegian, and the D is indeed pronounced, Its also pronounrced in Icelandic and Faroese (a softer d sound) and the same in old Norse. When all the other languages that were born from Norse exept Danish still pronounce the D, including in English, where the word became sword, then all logic tells us that it's the Danish pronounsistion that's furthest away from the origin. In that hindsight, you correcting Shad, just makes you look stupid in front of your brothers in Norway, Seeden Iceland and the Farorese Islands that sll still pronounce the D.
The differences in "weapon proficiencies" and learning a language as depicted in this movie looks like it was inspired by the rules of 2nd Edition AD&D, along with the weapon weights. It's pretty hilarious, but also endearing for a certain (my) generation. And it IS a great film, besides. By the by, while it isn't fantasy so much as historical fiction, check out Richard Lester's Three Musketeers and Four Musketeers movies from the mid-70s. I haven't found anyone who has done a fight review on anybof those fights, and they are some of the best in the business. Sir Christopher Lee as Rochford? 🤘 I love this video, Shad! Keep it up, mate ⚔
Terrific video Shad. I think Ebin was really saying " I cannot wield this." Meaning he was proficient in a scimitar vs viking sword (which looked more like a 2 handed broad sword than 1 handed). His complaint was justifiable, thus made a good cultural reference of sword differences. My 2 cents.
While the sword he's tossed appears to have a 2-handed grip and so might have been a bit larger, it certainly wouldn't have been that heavy, and he catches it easily enough to give lie to the statement he can't lift it. The grinding of the blade in to a single edge is horrifying to anyone who cares. Best part of the movie though, easily the prayer/chant before the last battle. Realism was secondary to feeling in that movie, and the feels were there in spades!
My horse looked just like the main character's horse in the movie, and he also was quite the versatile fellow compared to the bigger horses we hung out with, so the movie always had those points with me. It was also my first "gritty" historical fantasy movie. We watched it in English class.
I do *LOVE-LOVE* The Thirteenth Warrior, despite its historical inaccuracies. But I do appreciate how some of those issues can be problematic for some folks.
I grew up on 13th Warrior, easily the best film adaptation of Beowulf out there (I do like the animated CGI film, it was cool and I'll honestly be so bold as to give it second place, but you just can't beat 13th Warrior as a movie). But, I always did mentally cringe a little ever since I learned of realistic sword weights. It doesn't remove overall enjoyment from the film, it's just one of the classic stereotypes that I can't help but notice now.
@@robo5013 13th Warrior is a film adaptation of the book 'Eaters of the Dead' by Michael Crichton. That book was itself indeed an adaptation of Beowulf. This is established fact and the word of Crichton himself.
@@nextcaesargaming5469 Isn't it awesome how the Nordic supremacists do their best to steal away everything broadly Germanic and slap it under the banner of "viking".
@@robo5013it very much did have to do with Beowulf. The author blended the diary of the poet (everything leading up to him being chosen as the 13th warrior) with the legend of Beowulf (everything about defeating the fire wyrm).
Very true on the difference between the swords. My original thoughts were that the viking swords used in the movie were viking greatswords (aka heavier, larger, and wider), and the other point that was mentioned very early in the movie was that Antonio Banderas's character was a poet (if i remember correctly) mentioning also "without a care in the world"which I understood that the character was very weak (physically) since he had never needed to do any physical labor in his entire life. Banderas's character growth was not just psychological maturity but also had some physical growth, while at the same time the benefit of his character joining the vikings was that he brought logic, reasoning, and intelligence to the group. I still rewatch this movie every now and then, especially for being very gritty for the year produced
It's not just modern Western media. Have you seen the ludicrous weapon weights mentioned in the Chinese literature classic, Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
This may be the first time I've actually seen a real life example of what I've always called a "Broad Sword," meaning it's like a long sword or short sword, but instead of coming to a single point, it's wide throughout the blade and only narrows at the very tip.
The Vikings did a LOT of trade with the Arabic lands via rivers that connected the both of them (the Volga River was one of the main ways, and is even the starting location for the Vikings in the movie I think). Many of those beautifully crafted swords, you mentioned, originated from there. I think a great scene for that movie would have had 'Eben' admiring the King's sword (which would have been one of the really nice ones) and saying something like, 'Yes, a truly beautiful weapon, I know the man who made it' or something.
It’s still not as bad as the way rifles are handled in 99% of pre-September 11, 2001 movies and tv shows. For an example, watch the otherwise good for its day “Stargate.” Elite soldiers shooting from the hip and other nonsense.
I suspect it's more to do with balance and geometry, wieldabilty obviously has a lot to do with where the centre of balance is on any given blade. Perhaps that's a bit of a complex subject to get across in a film so they went with something a general audience could grasp.
Despite all historic inaccuracies or weird moments - I love this film. For me it has brilliantly ideal phases of the storytelling (yes, I know its based on Crichton book, but it other topic). I'm so immersing every time I watch this!
The thing is, the sword he is using is much bigger than the one you are using or even the "period" version you are showing. The sword he is using is thick and has tapering at the tip only. If you rewatch the scenes where he tries to parry with the sword, or when he his on his way to the "metal worker" he slings it on his shoulder and you can see the size and shape isnt even the same as his companions sword its much bigger. I am not saying you're wrong that in popculture, they often depict swords being heavier than they actually are. But I feel like you are completely ignoring the very sword you are seeing in the movie that is thick and bulky. I love your content, and i know this was just to prove the point of how people see swords is silly sometimes, but let's be honest about the source itself. There are plenty of examples were they do this WAY more blatant than this movie.
The 13th Warrior still remains a vastly underrated film. By no means a masterpiece or to be treated as incredibly realistic or "historically accurate" but it is a good watch that has good pacing and an interesting plot.
The 13th warrior is a very fun film to watch. It's Beowulf with Antonio Banderas as the NPC. So having the 12 Viking warriors all equipped with swords, not out of the question, as they are all heroes. Plus it gets props for one of the best monologues in cinema history, IMHO. "Lo, there do I see my father. Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. Lo, there do I see the line of my people, Back to the beginning! Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla! Where the brave may live forever!"
One myth from a black-and-white movie of the Crusades, the name of which I do not remember, had the Muslim leader meet the Christian Kings and dare them to cut a silk scarf with their swords. They could not, but he was able to with his curved sword with a slight flick of his wrist.
The meeting was between Salah Hu Din and King Richard. Richard demonstrated the "power" of his broadsword by hacking through the metal handle of a mace. Salah u Din flung a silk scarf into the air, and bisected it as it fluttered down The movie was, I believe, King Richard and the Crusaders
This movie was filmed in my hometown. At the time they were calling it 'Eaters of the Dead'. I thought that sounded hardcore & epic, and I couldn't wait to watch it. Years later I was still waiting, and then I found out that they changed the name. Anyone else think 'The 13th Warrior' sounds kinda generic compared to 'Eaters of the Dead'?
My ex thought that swords were 10 to 20 lbs before I had her pick up one of my swords she was so shocked how light they are. It was kind of funny as she was bracing her self to lift "20 lbs" worth of steel
Honestly, I also thought they were heavy as well, until I remember that the last time I attempted to hold an actual sword (an old saber my grandfather had, I believe) was when I was in elementary school... no WONDER!! 🤣
Did your ex have noodle arms? Most people can lift 20 pounds easily.
I keep trying to tell one of my friends that they're not heavy. He keeps saying, "Look how long it is!"
It doesn't matter how many times I try to point out how thin it is. Things are easily 50+lbs and ain't nobody teaching him different. 😂
@SamBrockmann No but she had back problems so she would worry about lifing anything that might be heavy
@@SamBrockmannTbf, 10 pounds is easier lifted holding it either in the middle, or cradling it from underneath. Whether in a bag or in hand directly.
Besides, it sounds even more when it's an unknown object, which you don't know much about. Because the blade is so much longer than the grip, a novice might think it to be top-heavy...
Her expectations were from the perspective of unfamiliarity, remember.
Seeing things from the other person's perspective would serve you well. 😊
Him using the grinding wheel to turn a straight sword into a curved sabre had me in stitches
True legend...
He also turned it into a laser saber as it cut through that 8 inch stake like it was butter. The force was strong in the Viking age…
When I first saw that movie as a kid, I remember wondering "how could he turn a straight sword into a curve sword with just a grinding wheel?"...... movie magic
Pissed me off too.
Movie ideas of how to make or modify swords has always been really painful to watch. Conan's father casting a "steel" sword has got to be the most obvious.
"When you die, can I give it to my doughtier!" best quote in the movie.
Yes!😂
"It's alright little brother, there are more!"
The Dog can jump!
“The dog can jump”
“Lo, there do I see my broadsword.
Lo, there do I see my scimitar,
and my tulwar, and my messer.
Lo, there do I see the line of my bladed weapons,
Back to the beginning!
Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my pick among them,
In the halls of Shadiversity!
Where Shad may expound forever!”
That was so good, well done sir. Love that line in the movie.
@@jonathontoney2338 Thank you.
Greatness 😆 that was awesome!
@@danieledwards2149 Thank you.
@@danieledwards2149 Cheers
I LOVE this movie. It was a nice deconstruction of the Grendel saga. Before deconstructions meant sad old heroes and Mary Rey Sue girlbosses.
You gave me a new perspective. Thank you. 😊
Yea I love this, because for all intents and purposes, this movie could be a depiction of the story of beowulf really came to be. Antonio played a poet, scholar, ambassador. Perhaps when he returns he wrote the epic poem we know and love today.
@@sabalmal1288 The original novel (Eaters of the Dead) was written by Michael Crighton(sp?) based on the memoirs of the real Ahmed ibn La'Ahad, who really did travel to Viking lands (specifically, the Rus tribe). The first part of the book (and movie) is almost 1 for 1 with said memoirs, most notably the funeral. After that comes the retelling of Beowulf. Which, by the way, predated Ahmed and the Rus by about 5 centuries.
@@Myomer104 Thats so cool!
So true, if they made it today half the guys would be black and Muslim with the other half being invincible women.
Shad!
I had no idea you were so strong!
I just saw you effortlessly wield a viking sword; those are notoriously heavy!
Are they? 😂
@@SamBrockmann I heard a regular man can't even lift one. True fact.
😆
Yep, 35 kilos, with a fuller. 43 kilos without.
All Vikings are from Asgard. That's why they are able to wield such refined robust weaponry forged in the heart of Alpha Tauri. < It's a millisecond Pulsar in Section 14 of the Beta Quadrant.
I always take scenes 'I can't hold this.'
As 'I can't wield this.'
Telling a rapier expert to wield a bastard 2 handed sword. The rapier expert are out of their element. They will complain.
I always thought it was because he was a soft poet so had no muscle mass
Yoikes. Talk to HEMA people who teach both rapier and longsword. The longsword person will complain about the rapier's weight, not the other way around. 2 hands is a lot of leverage, and you don't stand there holding a sword out at arm's length like a nasty shoulder raise.
@@iainpearce6379 That was my interpretation as well. He was probably exaggerating, and the Viking called him out on it.
This is one of my favorite films, despite its a-historical goofiness. Thank you, Shad, for giving _The 13th Warrior_ its due where it deserves it and pointing out its silliness when it’s warranted.
Despite their Hollywood esc errors, the entire 1st half of the movie before he departs with the band of warriors is entirely based on true accounts from a manuscript written by a Arab in that time period. After that the movie was entirely flipped into a Beowulf esc adventure. For reference look at Eaters of the Dead by Michael Chriton
The historical accuracy of the account is questionable. There WAS an account, yes, but whether it was accurate or not is debatable, but yes, that's where the core concept comes from here, which is a very interesting premise to take. Mixing historical accounts (debatable accuracy or not) with local myth and legend.
Honestly always thought they could do the same thing with the New World where the old myths and legends of native American tribes combined with the accounts of French or Spanish explorers/traders/trappers type thing. If you've never read some of those accounts (again, very subjective and often not entirely accurate), they're very interesting.
@@MST3Killa "Indian tribes" is the correct technical term historically (and the legal term in the USA). They were never called "Native American" except by certain misanthropes trying to falsify history in the past few decades. At best, you can use "American Indian" to differentiate from "Subcontinental Indian"...incidentally, the American Indian tribes didn't have a word for their "Race" because they never had a CONCEPT of "Race"...they didn't realize that different races of people existed until they met Europeans. Whether it was the Wampanoag to the Aztecs, most famously, the only American Indian "word/concept" that resembled the term "Race" was their word for "gods/spirit" (which is the word they used initially for White people)....they themselves took on the word "Red Man" and "Indian" which has been the proper term for about 600 years (the naming convention is actually millennia old, but Columbus essentially got it right...unless you want to pretend that these Tribes are named after a White Man (after all, THAT naming convention is in lieu of another Italian named Amerigo Vespucci).
People who pretend that "Native American" is supposed to be their name are FAR more ignorant than they pretend Christopher Columbus was (Columbus was actually one of the most knowledgeable and worldly people on Earth...especially compared to the ignorant tribesman he encountered who didn't even have a written language, mathematics, never invented the wheel, etc)
I think the "I can't lift it " moment is a language limitation, remember he just learned their language so i think he meant that he prefers a lighter sword not a literal i cant lift this while holding the sword.
Also its possible that the vikings still didnt have a lot of trust in him and deliberately gave him an overly heavy sword to see what he would do.
Not all swords are made the same and the skills of a blacksmith can vastly vary. That could have been an apprentice blade that was far too heavy.
He was most likely hyperbolic and exaggerated.
The second point does not sound very likely, more likely they would give him something they viewed as a toy or for a child.
Having learned a 2nd language and studied 2 others, I can Totally agree with your linguist error theory!
Yeah, “I listened!” only goes so far. Getting tenses right, learning to stack adjectives and using adverbs, not to mention what are called turns of speech like metaphors and similes, requires long immersion. Plus there are the “poetic” aspects of both the Norse he was learning and the Arabic he knew to confuse matters more.
I don’t doubt that to the Vikings he sounded like a child just learning to speak. That he was at all able to hold sensible conversations after only a few weeks of travel with its very selective immersion in whatever they talked about on the trip is pretty darn impressive, yet believable (to me anyway).
In the book, I believe it was a plot point that either the sword was just a weighted training weapon or just a, well, crap weapon that they'd gotten at some point and none of them wanted to use, Ibn also hadn't used a sword for years before that. It was also a larger weapon if I remember right which was also out of what little instruction he'd already had.
He's an exiled noble and a scholar, wasn't really trained as a warrior either...
But someone with a little training with a light, one handed sword (Probably a really expensive and custom one for him) who is way out of practice getting tossed a longsword (or what most refer to as a bastard sword) that isn't weighted properly and quite trash (or designed to add more to training that way) isn't going to really know what to do with it and his lack of real athletic prowess wouldn't help either there...the early parts kind of had him getting into shape as part of it.
I mean this isn’t about not having the upper body strength to lift the sword literally into the air but of the kind of leverage forces your lower arms muscles have to deal with wielding an long and more massive sword. The difference in that regard is much more noticeable than pure bulk weight of the sword itself. A skilled swordsman like our arab protagonist would notice that immediately
I mean, he could have just said, "I'm not used to this shape," and the viking could have said, "Get used to it.".
Not quite, since at the time, most Middle Eastern swords were also straight-bladed. Curved blades didn't really catch on until after the arrival of the Turks at earliest, and absolutely after the Mongol conquests, so I feel he would have been rather familiar with he shape.
That said, _this_ line still works better than the original. You know?
Arabian swords from that era used blades that were indistinguishable from Viking swords, but the hilts tended to be different. His problem with the sword should have been the large pommel which is uncomfortable to use except with a hammer grip.
I came into this with my guard up ready to be offended on behalf of a great movie, but when you gave it the recognition it deserved I was put to ease.
I see you are putting in a lot more effort than usual and I just wanted to say thank you and please don’t overdo it okay? Good luck!
in the book eaters of the dead, banderas character says i can't wield that it is not in my style indicating he does not know how to use a double edged sword, the movie translates that into oh it's to heavy.
To be fair, those props look at least half as big again as the swords you have there. Also as a side note, my cousin got to be an extra in this film, the little blond girl going into the bunker before the final fight at the end. Somewhat underrated, definitely has several problems, but still a charming and fun film.
How is Shad like a sword?
They both "exist on a bit of a spectrum". (2:37)
"Oh heck no. We are gonna need to clean this blade before I can even talk about it." 👌👍
"Sverd" is also the modern Norwegian word for "sword".
I mean, vikings -were- are Nordic
@@skeome Yes, but while modern Norwegian evolved from old Norse, there is a reason why they are considered different languages now. Some words however, are still similar or the same, like "sverd".
@TheHornedKing I'm not trying to be pedantic about linguistics, I just wanted to say that it makes sense that "sverd" stayed the same from Old Norse to Modern Norwegian, just like how "sword" stayed the same from Olde English to Modern English
The old norsk word would be _sverð_ which does not really have the d-sound at the end I think
@DH-rj2kv ð is a soft d, kind of like d(th)
Edit: or a very hard th, like if somebody repeatedly asked where something was (that's right in front of them) and you get fed up and shout/hiss "THERE"
Or if you were to say Blade and Lathe at the same time
I found it quite funny that he said that he could NOT lift it, when he was holding it in his hands.
He also catches it from pretty high up lol
@@mahe7744 without staggering or falling to the ground.
@@jacktheomnithere2127Kinda makes it sound like he was using hyperbole...
Just playing it up to get his preferred weapon. Lol.
It is like in video games. When he was holding the sword as weapon, he does not have enough strength to use it. But he can perfectly hold 10 such sword in him inventory without any issues at all.
It brings a tear to my eye to see so much love for this film, despite its reputation for being such a historical bomb.
One of the coolest things I ever learned about 13th Warrior was about the settlement were actually built and the cast and crew actually lived In them! Definitely a favorite movie of mine!
Tread lightly, Shad, this is one of my favorite movies! XD
Also, could we possible get an update on your medieval novel? Or the next volume of the Shadow of the Conqueror Graphic Novel....?
As a spaniard I'm so proud of Antonio Banderas for being one of our best actors that has made it to Hollywood. I also love 13th warrior for being one of the few fantasy medieval movies that has horror themes.
This and Desperado were my favourites from him, with a special shoutout to the training scene from Zorro.
"Do you know how to use that thing?" "Sure I do, the pointy end goes into the other man!"
@@SheyD78”mhm….this is going to take a lot of work.”
I think the conquistador armor wearing guy that gets left behind in the cave would deserve a video on just how out of place his armor as well as the head vikings and others are for the movie. Assuming it hasen't been done already!
“He had the blood of a Viking.”
... all over himself.
The movie is just plain fun. Yes, they exaggerated the weight of the swords in several parts, but I accepted it as artistic license.
Another movie that was overall fun and of a similar time period was Outlander. The disservice to representing the swords of the time were much worse, but an enjoyable watch blending historic fantasy and sci-fi.
13th Warrior is easily my favourite movie adaptation of Beowulf.
Antonio banderas's character really was a real person The 13th warrior is based off a 1300 account of a Muslim diplomat going with North warriors to a Norse settlement fighting something supernatural that actually wasn't supernatural. Michael Crichton wrote the book and I forgot the title but they changed it to the 13th warrior that account that he wrote about was a real story. This really did happen but probably not how it's just expected in the movie.
@@Darth_Traitorous the book title is Eaters of the Dead. I remember seeing a Behind the Scenes clip for the movie where they said they wanted to change the title because it made it sound less like a horror movie.
@@honey-badg3r638 Good decision.
@@Darth_Traitorous 10th century. 992AD.
Wrong , it's a adaptation of a book called " eaters of the dead " from the 9th century
"Give an Arab a sword, and he makes a knife"... my 2nd favorite line in that movie.🤣
13th Warrior. Haven't watched that movie in a long time. But it will always hold a special place in my heart.
I grew up with this movie.. out playing with sticks every time i watched it, beeing Norwegian and all..even have viking graves on my property😄 i was so ready to be offended on behalf of my childhood memory..but you had as always many good points and made a fun to watch review 😊😊 happy holidays to you 🎉
This movie is great with or without the errors!
if memory serves he was still learning the language at this point entirely by ear.. so its not that much of a stretch to think he used a smiliar yet more basic word like "lift" instead of a more complicated " weild this efficently".. languages are hard.. so yeah context adds alot..
also its 1 thing to compare swords made with modern materials mass produced and find them somewhat similar in weight.. its another entirely to compare weapons made at the time ( if any still exist, other than the rare very well made ones.. ) the type an average person would have access to.. its quite likely an average sword of the time was infact heavier ( comparitively) by quite a bit..
1 other thing is.. the weiht difference of even a few pounds on a weapon can make alot of difference, in stresses on body while weilding it .. if u train exclusively with a sword weighing 1kg and then get handed one weighing 1.2kg ( auguably not a big difference) and use it the same way you have trained.. you would in short order have sore wrist elbow shoulder etc.. hell look at tennis players for instance.. the difference of a few onces on a racket can course injury over a few matches.. just my 2c
"HOW DARE YOU ASSAULT MY CHILDHO-.... oh actually thay is kind of absurd".
To this day, I still tell people to simply "grow stronger" when they complain about the weight of something.
I loved the film "The Thirteenth Warrior" when I first saw the sceens you are referring to, I didn't take it as a representation of the difference in the two swords. I took it as a representation of the difference in the strength of the two characters.
One of my favorite lines from regarding that movie is "Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing."
And boy has me and some friends gotten good mileage out of the sword jokes as well over the years, good times...
And as so many have pointed out it could have been a badly balanced blade that he simply wasn't used to.
It's been long since I saw The 13th Warrior. If I recall correctly, when Banderas said that he can't lift the viking sword, I think he was trying to say that he was not trained with it and may get tired in a long fught. When he altered it into a curved one, he was able to do some moves with ease just as Shad mentioned here.
Yeah but there is very little difference in weight between a scimitar and broadsword only about a pound or less.
@@DustinDonald-cz9ot There's also balance and how you would be moving it.
Especially in a fight or more.
In the book, they also give him the only extra blade they have which was a larger size as well.
@@DustinDonald-cz9ot a pound, even half a pound, in a weapon is a huge deal. It can vastly alter your balance, swing style, maneuverability.
They ALWAYS F up Michael Crichton's books when turning them into movies.
Unfortunately, a lot of the fuckups are more due to the way details are handled...hard for a lot of things to be explained in a movie without a direct info-dump that doesn't really work.
Next video: Shad gets in a saddle to test if the dog can jump!
Ig sverd is a good way to say sword as that is how it was and is written in norse and norwegian, however it should also be pronounced sværd
Shad, I am surprised you did not mention that flail-thing the one guy used. LOL! I know you love flails...LOL!
I agree 'thirteenth warrior' was a great movie. between the banter and that poem it is a classic. Great video!
The Arab sword at the time was a double edge single handed sword that pretty resembled a Viking sword they didn’t start using Tulwar till later after the Turk and mongol invasions.
It was also used during the Abbasid reign, when they started using Turkish mercenaries and Mamluks during the Amin vs Ma'mun civil war, but not as widespread as later stages especially post Seljuk takeover.
Since the vikings in several scenes try to ridicule the "Arab", they probably did not give him the best sword they had, but a rather heavy one.
When it comes to fighting the depiction of the stability of viking shields in the movie is much more a concern to me. Shields broken with 2 to 4 blows to them, makes them quite obsolete.
I remember that scene and the guy the Arab's friend was fighting was a massive clumsy dude that relied on pure strength and was just trying to break things so not surprised he was able to cause enough splintering to break the shield.
@@donovanbradford8231 That would be a nice new video idea for Shad: What does it take to destroy a viking shield with a sword from the corresponding time? I bet you would be surprised how durable they are. ^^
Fun fact, Ulfbert swords were made with crucible steel that was traded from the Middle East. The Vikings didn't usually have the means to make crucible steel, so they bought it from traders who got it from the Middle East.
As always, very well done and very informative! Thank you!
1. the sword that is thrown to him is a two handed sword.
2. Antonio character is made fun of for how much smaller he is throughout the film. like “only an arab would bring a dog to war” making fun of his much smaller horse. or “put your hand down little brother” when he is trying to look into the distance once they are at the village.
3. Ahmed Ebinn falahse was a POET!! so its automatically assumed he never did any sort of manual labor let alone used a large ‘heavier’ sword.
I’ve been watching a bunch of meteor hammer videos (tutorials, a bunch of people breaking ice and stuff like that)
Can you PLEASE do some kind of short or anything on how practical they are as a weapon??? Like with how much power some people can get, it almost turns into a mace. Could it be useful against plate armor?
I'm not sure the line was meant literally but rather a more general objection that he was unsuited to using that sword. I believe his character was a poet kicked out of the kingdom for seducing the wife of an important noble.
Antonio is not a big man. If they threw him a broadsword just to mess with him it all makes sense. Neanderthals riding horses with saddles, well, not so much.
🤨The scene in the first GLADIATOR movie where Commodus was spinning the sword while being briefed by his counsel... i remember watching that movie and remember thinking "😧Ouch! Don't do that! You're gonna ruin the tip of the blade!"
I bloody love this film as well. glad to see you digging up hidden gems for content
I do really love ALL Shadiversity videos!!!! ❤
I think you're overthinking this movie, and this scene in particular.
At this point in the movie, Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan had only just learned the Scandinavian language, and would not be fluent in the nuances and intricacies of the language.
This makes the exchange a translation issue, not a statement of fact. While the script might have said "I cannot lift this", that is the basic Scandinavian translation. It is possible that the Arabic translation of the intended statement is more along the lines of "This is heavier than I'm used to, I won't be able to use it for long". This would make sense in the context, because Ahmed is still only in the early stages of learning a new completely unrelated language, and it wouldn't be until later in the movie that he'd be able to understand more of the nuance of the language.
Ahmed's belief that the sword was "too heavy" could have been exacerbated by differences in sword style, construction/forging, and steel quality.
While there is evidence that some Vikings were buried with high carbon steel swords (Ulfburht), recent-ish investigation has suggested that the swords were not European forged blades. The sword he was given was almost certainly not a high carbon steel sword. While Scandinavians were capable of producing above average quality steel, it was not typical, and therefore a lower quality blade would have been more likely. Arabic steel on the other hand was typically of a better quality, higher carbon content, and was commonly traded across Europe.
In addition, it is clear that the style of the sword was unlike any he had ever encountered before. It was a wide double edged sword intended for armored combat, of lower quality steel, as opposed to the single edge narrow sword of higher quality steel that was designed for lightly armored combat, that he was used to. The differences would easily explain the viking sword being twice the weight of Ahmed's preferred sword, and consequently his statement "This is heavier than I'm used to".
Finally, while the clumsiness Ahmed displays when trying to assist building the fortifications is almost certainly just a Hollywood-ism, it can justifiably be attributed to the differences in the sword styles and quality, as it was the first time he'd tried to use the weapon. I suspect that you'd encounter similar antics from a Musketeer used to a rapier, trying to use a Zweihänder for the first time. His regrinding the sword to be more suited to his training is a tragic, but understandable response to being given a weapon that he does not have the time to train with properly before being thrust into another combat situation.
I can't believe you didn't mention the full plate, the gladiator murmillo helmet that has been out of use for half a millennia, the conquistador helmet that won't exist for another millennia, and the fact it was worn by Vikings in the 6-8 century.
Have you looked at the BBC series from the 1980s called Robin of Sherwood? Nasir, who is a Saracen, uses two swords and the general use of sword play is seen throughout of the 28 April 1984 to 28 June 1986 series.
I think he has done a video on that movie. Pretty sure it was him reviewing th accuracies and inaccuracies of the film.
I could be misremembering though to.
is that the series that had the Long bow get introduced and one robin's gang says:
"Does it shoot around corners too?"
@shawn6860 not that I can remember, can't recall the comment within the series.
Great show.
I absolutely loved that show, at least the first two seasons with Michael Praed as Robin. Everyone involved in the making of that show clearly had a passion for what they were doing. Nasir was very cool "a killing machine from Palestine" I think they called him. Superb soundtrack by Clannad ! I own the Blu-ray set, I must rewatch it soon !
I watched this movie recently and couldn't wait for you to look at it! I'm shocked that you didn't say more about the ludicrous assumption that a grinding stone can magically transform the entire shape of a sword.
10:40 Tony Curran honestly makes that movie. Few lines, but they're gold. "Now it's bout to rain!"
sorry yo hear about the channel bud ive been getting people to see your channel that enjoy swords as much as we do hopeing the channel grows
The film is fine as it is Shad...but it did give me the idea of you recreating the Viking duel .maybe a breakdown and try?
Love the film. The one-liners in it are great.
Shad, I'm loving the frequent shorter videos. I know that you mentioned that you want to produce the longer form higher production value content and I agree that the platform needs that kind of content because it's awesome. There is something to be said for this content that is more 'digestible' in shorter time periods. I work from home and have yt on in the background while I am working and this shorter form content is much more compatible with how I work. Thanks!
I always assumed that him complaining about the weight was more Just him finding a reason to bitch about their different cultural weapons. Considering in the start of the movie he has such a higher opinion of his culture versus theirs.
I love that shad is doing cold style content again!
Hello Shad (Norwegian here) , I don't know if you will read this, but i do disagree in calling the "Viking Sword" for "Sverd", You compare it to the Katana (meaning sword), the difference being that the japense used Katanas as late as WW2. while sword evolution in Norway (and the rest of scandinavia) followed the rest of europe, ecspecially germany. and still called the new, more modern swords for "sverd" as well.
just some feedback from a norwegian sword enthusiast :-) Love your content and I've just re-read your book for the third time! continue the good work you're doing, it is really interessting
- Erik
Totally agree with you here as a fellow scandinavian. Calling it a ”sverd” runs the risk of being confusing since it still is the word that scandinavians use as the umbrella-term for all swords. And the justification for it doesn’t hold up as you say, when most other examples are a specific descriptive name of what the swords are or how they are used, e.g. Zweihänder and langmesser. So though ”sverd” wouldn’t necessarily be incorrect, it isn’t more correct than calling it a sword. My recommendation would be to call it ”early medieval ’insert region/cultural group’ sword”.
Yep. To us, a Katana is also a Sverd/Svärd.
But that's exactly Shad's point. That most cultures called their swords just "Sword" in their language for most of the time while swords where actually used, and that the naming of each different type of sword with a different name is a modern thing.
I don't know what he's even trying to do, other than put his own mark on culture. The "problem" here is that there is nothing "viking" about this broad style of sword. I would say that, when most say "viking sword", they're *at least* talking about a broadly Germanic early medieval style of sword, but we could maybe stretch it further to Europe more widely. Not to say that there weren't specific styles of sword that could be identified as Nordic, but almost nobody using "viking" cares about that level of detail. "Early medieval sword" is, most of the time, a way better term to use. There is truly no reason whatsoever to link this broad sword type to Scandyland at all - never mind a small subculture within Scandinavia ("vikings"). Did early medieval Scandinavians make a lot of these swords? No. It was one of the least productive areas of Europe - and most swords in Scandinavia weren't even made there. Did they use them more than anyone else? No. In fact there were less swords in Scandinavia than most surrounding areas.
It's wild to think that we're still dealing with Nordic supremacist baggage from the 1800's - 1900's. Talk about twisting history. That grinds my gears - as you can tell.
@@Herbert_Eder While he's wholly missing the point that there's nothing "viking", or "Nordic" about a style of sword used across Europe, almost all of which weren't made in Scandinavian.
Should we call every kind of sword used in England (this style of early medieval European sword amongst them) "sword"?
As always it's a balance of ease of speech, and clearness. This broad style of sword is a "early medieval european sword", or "early medieval sword". Easy.
The 13th Warrior is such a fantastic movie. One of my all time favorites, directed by the same guy that directed Predator with Arnold.
The other day a guy threw at me shamshears,
turns out it was real shears...
I love the video. I haven’t watched this movie in decades. I’ll give it another watch. Good points.
I had a more sophisticated take on the scene. While I’ve never trained in sword fighting, I have done a lot of bushcraft.
I understood Ian’s “weight” claim to be more a statement as to the overall size and balance of the sword he’s given. Note that he comments even before handling the sword; about the only thing he could have been sure of was that it was too long for him. In the film Ibn is shown as substantially shorter and of a slighter build than most of the Vikings.
“Grow stronger.” I suspect that the Vikings did not carry much in the way of “spare” gear. Ibn is being told to shut up and make it do.
Where was Ibn’s sword? As a captive, I expect he was kept unarmed up to that point by his captors.
Too heavy? I understood this to be a reference to different fighting styles. I think we’re contrasting two-handed combat with a single-arm slashing style.Thus, Ibn would expect a sword to be much lighter, with a more neutral balance. Ibn’s style stressed speed and agility over raw power.
The only thing I found impossible was Ibn’s ability to turn a long, thick, heavy sword into a gracefully curved blade using only a grindstone.
As for the wood chopping . . . For that you need a more forward balance (think “Kukri” or axe) rather than grace and speed. That was pure Hollywood. Indeed, these were VIKINGS. They had plenty of axes. The use of any kind of sword for the task was silly. All a swift, light blade would excel at would be in trimming pine branches off the trunk.
One error you made sorry, Ibn was at no stage a captive. He had gone to trade with the Norse and then been selected as the 13th Warrior on their quest. Was he initially treated as an outsider? Definitely, but not a captive.
Love the film. Sometimes you have to let reality go and just enjoy the entertainment. Toys don’t come alive when you leave the room but Toy Story is a good film.
Wow wow woow wait!!
😱They're not?!
How would you know toys don't come alive, have you seen them not come alive?
When dealing with Nors people weaponry from the Viking era. You need to remember that they did a destinktion betwin the Seax and the Sveard. The former was primarily a self defense or backup weapon, and the later was a status symbol while filling the same role. A Seax were "cruder" and shorter and made with lower quality steel and in some cases essentially iron with a bit of coal in it.
Axes were primarily used as tools in combat, and doubled as weapons. I say tools sins their function was to bake down or remove/hock obstakels (shields as an example).
I believe one of the reasons the axe is so connected to norse raiders on a viking, is their use in breaking down doors during a raid. Thus being one of the weapons aye witnesses would talk about.
Bows were quite prominent as a battle weapon as well. largely sins a lot of norse people would be proficient with them for various reasons. Also sins they were used to secure landings in hostile territory. There is an account in one of the sagas, were they landed in to a village. The bowmen made sure the melee fighter could get off the boat without getting overwhelmed by the defenders. In general they were used to soften up enemies, take out targets, and secure the advance of the melee soldiers.
The primary weapon of the norse warriors were various forms of spears. Variating in length and form depending on their primary use and battle tactics.
And almost always in combination with a shield. You also need to remember that shields were designed to break and trap weapons to a degree. So quite often towards an end of a battle a lot of norse warriors would be without one, and might use their backup weapon as a blocking tool. Thus creating the idea of the dual wielding viking, ve se to often in media.
This is ofc generally speaking. There were exceptions to this, based on situations and personal preferences. As well as variation during the several hundred years they of the viking era.
The warius stories that exist in regard to Norse Warriors, will often depict the exceptions more thuruly, sin they are exemptions. Especially the stories told by their enemies.
As well as you need to remember that they Nors way of telling a battle story is more based on "rule of cool" than the actual truth. The truth is there, but if something sounds cool and could be feasible, they would include it in the story.
Sværd is Danish for sword :) The D is silent btw
But Svärd is Swedish for sword, and the D isn't silent here 🙂
Yeah in Danish. In Swedish it's svärd and you do pronounce the D
And now in Norwegian please
...let's not get into Danish pronunciation of anything. You guys need a new alphabet.
Sverd in Norwegian, and the D is indeed pronounced, Its also pronounrced in Icelandic and Faroese (a softer d sound) and the same in old Norse. When all the other languages that were born from Norse exept Danish still pronounce the D, including in English, where the word became sword, then all logic tells us that it's the Danish pronounsistion that's furthest away from the origin.
In that hindsight, you correcting Shad, just makes you look stupid in front of your brothers in Norway, Seeden Iceland and the Farorese Islands that sll still pronounce the D.
The differences in "weapon proficiencies" and learning a language as depicted in this movie looks like it was inspired by the rules of 2nd Edition AD&D, along with the weapon weights. It's pretty hilarious, but also endearing for a certain (my) generation. And it IS a great film, besides.
By the by, while it isn't fantasy so much as historical fiction, check out Richard Lester's Three Musketeers and Four Musketeers movies from the mid-70s. I haven't found anyone who has done a fight review on anybof those fights, and they are some of the best in the business. Sir Christopher Lee as Rochford? 🤘
I love this video, Shad! Keep it up, mate ⚔
Terrific video Shad. I think Ebin was really saying " I cannot wield this." Meaning he was proficient in a scimitar vs viking sword (which looked more like a 2 handed broad sword than 1 handed). His complaint was justifiable, thus made a good cultural reference of sword differences. My 2 cents.
While the sword he's tossed appears to have a 2-handed grip and so might have been a bit larger, it certainly wouldn't have been that heavy, and he catches it easily enough to give lie to the statement he can't lift it. The grinding of the blade in to a single edge is horrifying to anyone who cares. Best part of the movie though, easily the prayer/chant before the last battle. Realism was secondary to feeling in that movie, and the feels were there in spades!
My horse looked just like the main character's horse in the movie, and he also was quite the versatile fellow compared to the bigger horses we hung out with, so the movie always had those points with me. It was also my first "gritty" historical fantasy movie. We watched it in English class.
Fuck yea, your doing the 13th warrior content now. Thanks shad, hope there's more on this movie. Like all their mismatched armor and stuff.
Awesome video as always Shad! The word "Sverd" is actually still the Norwegian word for swords today :)
I love the film , but yes , I wouldn't use my fighting sword to cut wood with. I'd use an axe.
shad pretending his medival swords are "light" and "managable" when we all know he's just super strong
I do *LOVE-LOVE* The Thirteenth Warrior, despite its historical inaccuracies.
But I do appreciate how some of those issues can be problematic for some folks.
I was very surprise to see you talking about the 13 warrior in one of your videos Im glad you did...I love the 13 warrior!⚔️
I grew up on 13th Warrior, easily the best film adaptation of Beowulf out there (I do like the animated CGI film, it was cool and I'll honestly be so bold as to give it second place, but you just can't beat 13th Warrior as a movie). But, I always did mentally cringe a little ever since I learned of realistic sword weights. It doesn't remove overall enjoyment from the film, it's just one of the classic stereotypes that I can't help but notice now.
Nothing to do with Beowulf. It is based on an account by a Muslim who traveled with the Norse.
@@robo5013 13th Warrior is a film adaptation of the book 'Eaters of the Dead' by Michael Crichton. That book was itself indeed an adaptation of Beowulf. This is established fact and the word of Crichton himself.
@@nextcaesargaming5469 Isn't it awesome how the Nordic supremacists do their best to steal away everything broadly Germanic and slap it under the banner of "viking".
@@robo5013 His name is Ahmad ibn Fadlan btw.
@@robo5013it very much did have to do with Beowulf.
The author blended the diary of the poet (everything leading up to him being chosen as the 13th warrior) with the legend of Beowulf (everything about defeating the fire wyrm).
The bear necessities
6:25 ANTONIO MANDERAS? Never heard of that guy. i'll have to watch that movie again and see if i can spot him.
Very true on the difference between the swords. My original thoughts were that the viking swords used in the movie were viking greatswords (aka heavier, larger, and wider), and the other point that was mentioned very early in the movie was that Antonio Banderas's character was a poet (if i remember correctly) mentioning also "without a care in the world"which I understood that the character was very weak (physically) since he had never needed to do any physical labor in his entire life. Banderas's character growth was not just psychological maturity but also had some physical growth, while at the same time the benefit of his character joining the vikings was that he brought logic, reasoning, and intelligence to the group.
I still rewatch this movie every now and then, especially for being very gritty for the year produced
Did you hear that they have curved swords? Curved Swords.
It's not just modern Western media. Have you seen the ludicrous weapon weights mentioned in the Chinese literature classic, Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
You just made me want to rewatch one of my favorites movies, thanks Shad XD
This may be the first time I've actually seen a real life example of what I've always called a "Broad Sword," meaning it's like a long sword or short sword, but instead of coming to a single point, it's wide throughout the blade and only narrows at the very tip.
The Vikings did a LOT of trade with the Arabic lands via rivers that connected the both of them (the Volga River was one of the main ways, and is even the starting location for the Vikings in the movie I think). Many of those beautifully crafted swords, you mentioned, originated from there. I think a great scene for that movie would have had 'Eben' admiring the King's sword (which would have been one of the really nice ones) and saying something like, 'Yes, a truly beautiful weapon, I know the man who made it' or something.
It’s still not as bad as the way rifles are handled in 99% of pre-September 11, 2001 movies and tv shows.
For an example, watch the otherwise good for its day “Stargate.” Elite soldiers shooting from the hip and other nonsense.
I suspect it's more to do with balance and geometry, wieldabilty obviously has a lot to do with where the centre of balance is on any given blade. Perhaps that's a bit of a complex subject to get across in a film so they went with something a general audience could grasp.
Despite all historic inaccuracies or weird moments - I love this film. For me it has brilliantly ideal phases of the storytelling (yes, I know its based on Crichton book, but it other topic). I'm so immersing every time I watch this!
The thing is, the sword he is using is much bigger than the one you are using or even the "period" version you are showing. The sword he is using is thick and has tapering at the tip only. If you rewatch the scenes where he tries to parry with the sword, or when he his on his way to the "metal worker" he slings it on his shoulder and you can see the size and shape isnt even the same as his companions sword its much bigger.
I am not saying you're wrong that in popculture, they often depict swords being heavier than they actually are. But I feel like you are completely ignoring the very sword you are seeing in the movie that is thick and bulky.
I love your content, and i know this was just to prove the point of how people see swords is silly sometimes, but let's be honest about the source itself. There are plenty of examples were they do this WAY more blatant than this movie.
13th warrior is one of many of my favourite films, the line "grow stronger" is great :)
The 13th Warrior still remains a vastly underrated film. By no means a masterpiece or to be treated as incredibly realistic or "historically accurate" but it is a good watch that has good pacing and an interesting plot.
The 13th warrior is a very fun film to watch. It's Beowulf with Antonio Banderas as the NPC. So having the 12 Viking warriors all equipped with swords, not out of the question, as they are all heroes.
Plus it gets props for one of the best monologues in cinema history, IMHO.
"Lo, there do I see my father.
Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers.
Lo, there do I see the line of my people, Back to the beginning!
Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla! Where the brave may live forever!"
One myth from a black-and-white movie of the Crusades, the name of which I do not remember, had the Muslim leader meet the Christian Kings and dare them to cut a silk scarf with their swords. They could not, but he was able to with his curved sword with a slight flick of his wrist.
The meeting was between Salah Hu Din and King Richard. Richard demonstrated the "power" of his broadsword by hacking through the metal handle of a mace. Salah u Din flung a silk scarf into the air, and bisected it as it fluttered down
The movie was, I believe, King Richard and the Crusaders
That was a great line though
"I cannot lift this"
"Grow stronger"
That movie is a mess of inaccuracies and inconsistencies :-) But it is also a very good movie, definitely one of my favourites :-))
This movie was filmed in my hometown. At the time they were calling it 'Eaters of the Dead'. I thought that sounded hardcore & epic, and I couldn't wait to watch it. Years later I was still waiting, and then I found out that they changed the name. Anyone else think 'The 13th Warrior' sounds kinda generic compared to 'Eaters of the Dead'?
One of my favorite movies. I don't think many people know about it. Great points on swords.
Many of them do have great points.