As someone who’s watched a few videos to try to figure out what my hair needs...your video was the first one that explained it in such a way that it clicked, so thank you!!! 💚💚
Thank you so much Jen! I have definitely been making this harder than it needs to be. I've just started my wavy / curly journey & I have been so confused over this.
I have low porosity hair and have noticed for balance I need at least 2 products with protein (my shampoo and conditioner)and the rest just has moisture
Well explained. I watched lot of videos to find out what my hair really needs. Even I asked some of youtubers about same. Different answers made me confused more. Now I figured out my hair is low porosity and what I need. Thankyou somuch ❤️
Wondering if I should just do a protein mask once a month and see if that helps? Moisture ones don’t seem to cut it. My whole top layer is frizzy. I dye the roots and glaze the rest once a month. I have straight ish hair. The back middle part has speed bumps type texture. Not curly or straight.
Can someone help me? so for the elasticity test when i stretched my hair strand it did stretch for some while and then it finally broke , but it was in no way sudden, so what do I need protein or moisture?
I have high porosity hair, but I also have excessive protein. What should I do? You said that high porosity hair loves protein... What should I do now?
My hair has been made dry and have some damage too from a bad hair color experience. . I used repair me and my hair appeared silky .... but after piling in the moisture i currently have thick dry hair...am again using repair me by Kevin Murphy... wnat is happening with the thick fat hair?
Hi one day i applied a hair mask and left it on for too long after washing my hair became flat no volume no bounce extremely soft no weight and mushy limpy after that i used detox shampoo n every thing but is just becomes temporarily bit silky and goes back to same condition my hair were most silky n volumous bouncy hair i want my hair bach plz tell me is its protein or moisture how can i get my hair back i miss them so much its so weird i hate it is feel like i have oil in my hair or my hair are dirty i haven’t washed my hai tey have absolutely no life
i’m struggling with some hair loss and my last shampoo was adding to that! i think i have hard water, too. i just bought volumizing sh + co with protein and the co has silicone - oops. the shampoo has a sulfonate, which i’m not sure will remove the silicone. be wavy/curly is hard sometimes 😂
The sulfate in the shampoo will absolutely remove the silicone! That’s why they are usually paired together in the shampoo and conditioner. I still use sulfate and silicone shampoo and conditioners! I personally don’t see a huge difference in my hair when I use them 😁
I've been doing the elasticity test and it always indicates I am in protein overload, but I have been using protein-free products for about a month and clarifying weekly with a sulfate shampoo and then vinegar, and it still hasn't changed, it still feels dry and less wavy than it was too. is there anything else I can do?
I’m still so confused! I used to dye my hair all the time and it had high porosity and would snap easily so I assumed that was why it was always dry. I have not dyed my hair in over a year and had all the dyed hair cut off. I now have low porosity hair but it’s STILL dry and snaps I am totally at a loss what is wrong with it. The porosity doesn’t seem to change anything in my hair? 🤷🏻♀️
Sometimes porosity doesn’t change, hair is weird and confusing sometimes 😂 your hair can still be low porosity and need moisture. I would look for videos here on UA-cam for low porosity dry hair and see what pops up. Getting a deep conditioner that you leave in for 30 mins might help. Feel free to do your own research on those, there’s so many to choose from. I personally use the deep treatment masque from Cantu. It has 2 protein ingredients down at the bottom of the ingredients list, which means there isn’t much in it, or they’re at a lower concentration. And since it’s a rinse out deep conditioner, you shouldn’t be worried about it weighing your hair down, since you won’t leave it on your hair.
My hair stretches and then breaks, it’s breaking a lot (because of heat damage) and my hair seems so easily prone to splitting at the ends! I’ve never dyed my hair but use heat regularly and my hair is frizzy and dry but my scalp is super oily so I need to wash my hair every 2 days! Can’t figure out if it’s safe to incorporate some protein into my hair via shampoos, I’m scared it will cause more breakage in the case that I actually need moisture? Do you think it’s safe to use a shampoo with some protein ?
A shampoo with protein could help, and since it’s a rinse out product you wouldn’t have to worry about the protein staying on your hair and causing more issues. You can also try incorporating a deep conditioner too only in your ends and an oil on your ends go help with the dryness.
This is my first time growing my hair out. I’m a guy so it’s a learning experience. My hair is a little above my shoulders. My hair snaps immediately when I do the elasticity test. I ordered a good leave in conditioner to help with moisture. I also have a antihumidity/anti-frizz milk product. Should I use both of these products or will the leave in conditioner be sufficient? I have fine textured hair but medium to thick density. I have high porosity. I know I will have to experiment but wanted to get your opinion. Thanks.
You can try both, the milk products are usually pretty lightweight. If you find your hair seems more oily or heavy after using both try just using the leave in conditioner!
Okay I just came across your page I am subscribing I do have a question just did the two toss you talked about my hair instantly broke and it literally absorb my water there was no droplets my hair is always been frizzy always have been curly I stopped dying my hair over 35 years ago when I started going to church I'm older but I went on a very strict weight loss program 2 years ago my hair changed I lost hair now we're pregnant and my hair's gotten sicker so I've got like five in that is just so thin and Frizzy that I can't do nothing with it it looks horrible I can't even style it when I try to straighten it it just it doesn't even want to straighten it becomes so thin and brittle and breaks please help everyone just tells me to cut it all off and start with the good hair and I can't do that I don't cut my hair why is that the first thing people say I don't get it
I had a perm in Jan 2021 but it’s defiantly grown out since Than and all it was cut off. Idk what happened to my hair but My hair is short and when I pull it it don’t break, and when i spray it with water the droplets sit there and it’s so dry and frizzy and some pieces stick out. I’m confused what to do to fix this, I have straight hair and it’s always been healthy and looking good just not now
It could very well be damaged from the perm! If you’ve have healthy hair until now, i would assume it s from the chemical damage from the perm. Chemical damage can make your hair need more protein to help fix what’s broken, and if you’ve been lacking in using oils or deep conditioners that could be the cause as well. I would start with a deep conditioner and shampoo and conditioner with protein in it and see what that does!
I have high porosity hair but I really feel my hair became bad and there are signs of protein overload because I have several products in my routine that contains protein
Hello, I recently came across your channel . I’ve been having a bit of some problems with my hair for a while all ready and idk if you can give me some advice? It’s just im recently getting better from hair shedding or telogen effluvium and I just was barely able to cut it. But it’s getting a bit better it’s getting a little thicker it’s just taking time. My other issue is that my hair always feels like damp. it wasn’t always like this but during winter it has gotten worse. When I’m drying it with low heat it just does not want to dry. And during winter it’s been getting well more frustrating. I do hair oils before I shampoo. But when it comes to drying it just stays damp. I washed it Monday and it’s still damp. It’s like it’s never completely dry and it looks well like it’s missing something. When I went to the hair salon they had trouble with my hair since they couldn’t dry it very well style it. I was doing the test you said and some strands would snap others we’re more stretchy. So I’m so confused 🫤 my hair is wavy so I miss having my well wavy bouncy hair. If you can give me a bit of advice I would really appreciate it. just been a bit of struggle. I really would appreciate it. Thank you and stay safe.
Feel Like my balance is ok, still my hair ist frizzy and breaks at the ends. I'm very careful, sleep with bonnet and don't wash it too often :( Any ideas?
my hair is still frizzy at the ends and also breaks at times! It can happen. and if you have naturally curly hair your hair will be frizzy just because it’s curly. We aren’t able to get rid of 100% of frizz. I would say just keep doing deep conditioners and adding oils into your routine! it’ll take time, but it’ll work eventually.
Just because something says "moisturizing" on the label, it doesn't mean that it 100 percent is. I've seen plenty of products that claim that, but when you look on the back, you read protein ingredients or "coconut oil" which a lot of beginners starting with hair care, should know that coconut Mimicks protein in the hair shaft. Also, everyone needs to know the type of hair that they have and not just the hair porosity. The products that work for you, may not work for someone else, so recommending a hair mask may not work for someone, of they are picking a mask with heavy ingredients that weigh their hair type down. Type straight a,b or c, wavy a, b, or c ECT... Every hair type needs something different. Heavy products may weigh down a certain type or could work for a certain type. It's pretty confusing sometimes. 🤦 I'm just figuring it all out myself. And then it gets even more confusing if you want to have sulfates in your products or not. Or go without sulfates and just stick with a clarifying shampoo that you use from time to time. Sigh. I hope it gets easier. I'm having a hard time figuring out my porosity level. I was thinking protein overload because I noticed that a lot of my products have coconut oil in basically all of them. So thought it was protein over load and after watching this, I'm even more confused at low or high porosity. I feel like it's easier to pick out protein products rather than those that are moisturizing because of the coconut oil in all products
Porosity is mainly about how damaged your hair is. If you have chemical damage (colored hair) your hair would be a higher porosity. And you’re right about products saying “moisturizing” and they do contain proteins. That’s why it is important for each person to do their own research!
Ugh I am SO dumb. But you seem to know a lot, PLEASE help. My hairs stretches then breaks so I don’t know. I throng it needs protein?? But I’m so scared because I know before I bleached it a ton it USE TO have too much protein. So I’m scared that if I put protein in it, then it’s gonna make it worse because what if it has a protein build up?? I’ve bleached my hair a ton and it is destroyed. I use olaplex all the time, have tried tons of masks. I just bought a protein and a treatment because the moisture treatments aren’t going anytbung for my hair. I’m PRAYING my hair doesn’t get worse
If the moisture treatments aren’t doing anything I think the protein will most likely help! Just do it 1 time and see what happens! Don’t forget to clarify if need be too 😄
I would split your hair down the middle, apply a deep conditioner on one side and a protein treatment on the other, and see which side turns out better in the end! that will let you know :)
You know what i ditched everything and just went back to ultra basics, here in Norway we have a product line by Sunsilk, dirt cheap stuff, we're talking as cheap as two bucks for a bottle, i love their shampoo and it's the best shampoo, my mother also use it and she has some of the most incredible hair I've seen, you don't even need a conditioner, for the simple fact that it contains none of the harmful proteins that end up fucking your hair up like high end products do, all it does is clean with sulfate which there is so much fear mongering about, when ironically high end products make a far greater mess out of your hair than sulfate alone ever will, frankly probably most drugstore products will suffice, same with skin care, i just keep it ultra basic, the more crap you put on the more problems there will be down the road. This is the uncomfortable truth for many, there really is no need for expensive shit, our hair is perfectly capable of staying healthy when left to it's own devices, unless you damage it.
straight hair doesn’t need as much maintenance as curly hair, so if your hair is naturally straight with absolutely no bend to it at all, i wouldn’t worry about this
I have low porosity hair but i need the same amount of protein/ moisture but im not sure whether thats right because you were saying if ur hair is low porisity you will need more moisture and a little protein.
Everyone’s hair is different! If you do have lower porosity but you Mr hair still likes protein, and you don’t experience protein overload…like super frizzy hair that tangles and feels like straw, then you’re giving your hair what it likes! Not everyone will fall under the same category and have the same needs
As someone who’s watched a few videos to try to figure out what my hair needs...your video was the first one that explained it in such a way that it clicked, so thank you!!! 💚💚
Thank you so much!!! I’m so happy to hear that!!
For the first time I have figured out what my hair needs. Thank you for your precise and clear explanation.
Thank you so much Jen! I have definitely been making this harder than it needs to be. I've just started my wavy / curly journey & I have been so confused over this.
Best definition of moisture vs protein balance I have heard. Thank you!
I have low porosity hair and have noticed for balance I need at least 2 products with protein (my shampoo and conditioner)and the rest just has moisture
Well explained. I watched lot of videos to find out what my hair really needs. Even I asked some of youtubers about same. Different answers made me confused more. Now I figured out my hair is low porosity and what I need. Thankyou somuch ❤️
I'm so glad!
Wondering if I should just do a protein mask once a month and see if that helps? Moisture ones don’t seem to cut it. My whole top layer is frizzy. I dye the roots and glaze the rest once a month. I have straight ish hair. The back middle part has speed bumps type texture. Not curly or straight.
I have low porosity and good elasticity, my curls just don’t pop anymore, don’t know what I’m missing or what products to use
try incorporating a product with protein in it and see if that helps!
Can someone help me? so for the elasticity test when i stretched my hair strand it did stretch for some while and then it finally broke , but it was in no way sudden, so what do I need protein or moisture?
When you pulled your strand, did you feel a bounce to it? Or were you able to just keep stretching it
I have high porosity hair, but I also have excessive protein. What should I do? You said that high porosity hair loves protein... What should I do now?
What about the adjective volumizing?
I really loved this. You have my same length and similar curl. And low porosity! Subscribed! 💜
Aquarian Alien THATS awesome!!!! ♥️♥️♥️ thanks so much for following along 😁
@@LifeWithJenn can you please do more product reviews??😁
My hair has been made dry and have some damage too from a bad hair color experience. . I used repair me and my hair appeared silky .... but after piling in the moisture i currently have thick dry hair...am again using repair me by Kevin Murphy... wnat is happening with the thick fat hair?
Ty gonna try natural shampoo for curls without protein 1st for a kid
Hi one day i applied a hair mask and left it on for too long after washing my hair became flat no volume no bounce extremely soft no weight and mushy limpy after that i used detox shampoo n every thing but is just becomes temporarily bit silky and goes back to same condition my hair were most silky n volumous bouncy hair i want my hair bach plz tell me is its protein or moisture how can i get my hair back i miss them so much its so weird i hate it is feel like i have oil in my hair or my hair are dirty i haven’t washed my hai tey have absolutely no life
i’m struggling with some hair loss and my last shampoo was adding to that! i think i have hard water, too. i just bought volumizing sh + co with protein and the co has silicone - oops. the shampoo has a sulfonate, which i’m not sure will remove the silicone. be wavy/curly is hard sometimes 😂
The sulfate in the shampoo will absolutely remove the silicone! That’s why they are usually paired together in the shampoo and conditioner. I still use sulfate and silicone shampoo and conditioners! I personally don’t see a huge difference in my hair when I use them 😁
@@LifeWithJenn ah, i thought oleic sulfonate couldn’t remove cyclopentasiloxane!! thank youuuu
I've been doing the elasticity test and it always indicates I am in protein overload, but I have been using protein-free products for about a month and clarifying weekly with a sulfate shampoo and then vinegar, and it still hasn't changed, it still feels dry and less wavy than it was too. is there anything else I can do?
Maybe not clarify so often? Even when I use silicones I only clarify every other week at the most
What if your hair strand stretches AND then breaks 😭 I feel like my hair is mushy but also dry at the ends??
I would definitely try protein products! Maybe not a super strong treatment. But maybe a curl cream with protein in it! That might help 😄
@@LifeWithJenn thank u so much!!
I have straight hair but I still find this advice helpful for my straight hair type 👍
Thank You Jenn , my like is number 100 :) , we love you :D
My hair was high porosity then I have used cold water then it turned into low porosity now
I’m still so confused! I used to dye my hair all the time and it had high porosity and would snap easily so I assumed that was why it was always dry. I have not dyed my hair in over a year and had all the dyed hair cut off. I now have low porosity hair but it’s STILL dry and snaps I am totally at a loss what is wrong with it. The porosity doesn’t seem to change anything in my hair? 🤷🏻♀️
If your hair is still dry I would try a deep conditioner!
Sometimes porosity doesn’t change, hair is weird and confusing sometimes 😂 your hair can still be low porosity and need moisture. I would look for videos here on UA-cam for low porosity dry hair and see what pops up. Getting a deep conditioner that you leave in for 30 mins might help. Feel free to do your own research on those, there’s so many to choose from. I personally use the deep treatment masque from Cantu. It has 2 protein ingredients down at the bottom of the ingredients list, which means there isn’t much in it, or they’re at a lower concentration. And since it’s a rinse out deep conditioner, you shouldn’t be worried about it weighing your hair down, since you won’t leave it on your hair.
Great I’m same as you! I’m just trying to find products for moisturizing without protein! Can you recommend me ones
My hair stretches and then breaks, it’s breaking a lot (because of heat damage) and my hair seems so easily prone to splitting at the ends! I’ve never dyed my hair but use heat regularly and my hair is frizzy and dry but my scalp is super oily so I need to wash my hair every 2 days! Can’t figure out if it’s safe to incorporate some protein into my hair via shampoos, I’m scared it will cause more breakage in the case that I actually need moisture? Do you think it’s safe to use a shampoo with some protein ?
A shampoo with protein could help, and since it’s a rinse out product you wouldn’t have to worry about the protein staying on your hair and causing more issues. You can also try incorporating a deep conditioner too only in your ends and an oil on your ends go help with the dryness.
This is my first time growing my hair out. I’m a guy so it’s a learning experience. My hair is a little above my shoulders. My hair snaps immediately when I do the elasticity test. I ordered a good leave in conditioner to help with moisture. I also have a antihumidity/anti-frizz milk product. Should I use both of these products or will the leave in conditioner be sufficient? I have fine textured hair but medium to thick density. I have high porosity. I know I will have to experiment but wanted to get your opinion. Thanks.
You can try both, the milk products are usually pretty lightweight. If you find your hair seems more oily or heavy after using both try just using the leave in conditioner!
@@LifeWithJenn yea it’s all just experimenting. It’s tough with fine hair. At least I have medium to thick density rather than low. Thank you.
You’re welcome!! Hopefully you have a good wash day!
Okay I just came across your page I am subscribing I do have a question just did the two toss you talked about my hair instantly broke and it literally absorb my water there was no droplets my hair is always been frizzy always have been curly I stopped dying my hair over 35 years ago when I started going to church I'm older but I went on a very strict weight loss program 2 years ago my hair changed I lost hair now we're pregnant and my hair's gotten sicker so I've got like five in that is just so thin and Frizzy that I can't do nothing with it it looks horrible I can't even style it when I try to straighten it it just it doesn't even want to straighten it becomes so thin and brittle and breaks please help everyone just tells me to cut it all off and start with the good hair and I can't do that I don't cut my hair why is that the first thing people say I don't get it
I would try a good deep treatment mask and do that weekly! That’ll help protect your hair and strengthen it!
I had a perm in Jan 2021 but it’s defiantly grown out since Than and all it was cut off. Idk what happened to my hair but My hair is short and when I pull it it don’t break, and when i spray it with water the droplets sit there and it’s so dry and frizzy and some pieces stick out. I’m confused what to do to fix this, I have straight hair and it’s always been healthy and looking good just not now
It could very well be damaged from the perm! If you’ve have healthy hair until now, i would assume it s from the chemical damage from the perm. Chemical damage can make your hair need more protein to help fix what’s broken, and if you’ve been lacking in using oils or deep conditioners that could be the cause as well. I would start with a deep conditioner and shampoo and conditioner with protein in it and see what that does!
I have high porosity hair but I really feel my hair became bad and there are signs of protein overload because I have several products in my routine that contains protein
It is possible to need some moisture even if your hair loves protein 😄
Thank you so much. Helped me so much!!!
Hello, I recently came across your channel . I’ve been having a bit of some problems with my hair for a while all ready and idk if you can give me some advice? It’s just im recently getting better from hair shedding or telogen effluvium and I just was barely able to cut it. But it’s getting a bit better it’s getting a little thicker it’s just taking time. My other issue is that my hair always feels like damp. it wasn’t always like this but during winter it has gotten worse. When I’m drying it with low heat it just does not want to dry. And during winter it’s been getting well more frustrating. I do hair oils before I shampoo. But when it comes to drying it just stays damp. I washed it Monday and it’s still damp. It’s like it’s never completely dry and it looks well like it’s missing something. When I went to the hair salon they had trouble with my hair since they couldn’t dry it very well style it. I was doing the test you said and some strands would snap others we’re more stretchy. So I’m so confused 🫤 my hair is wavy so I miss having my well wavy bouncy hair. If you can give me a bit of advice I would really appreciate it. just been a bit of struggle. I really would appreciate it. Thank you and stay safe.
that is really puzzling and has me stumped! I’ll have to do some research on that
My hair doesn't stretch or break, but it's a mess. I still don't know if I need more moisture or more protein. Is there another way to check?
You could to half of your hair with a deep conditioner and the other half with a protein treatment and see what happens
@@LifeWithJenn
Good idea. Thank you.
Really smart !
Feel Like my balance is ok, still my hair ist frizzy and breaks at the ends. I'm very careful, sleep with bonnet and don't wash it too often :( Any ideas?
my hair is still frizzy at the ends and also breaks at times! It can happen. and if you have naturally curly hair your hair will be frizzy just because it’s curly. We aren’t able to get rid of 100% of frizz. I would say just keep doing deep conditioners and adding oils into your routine! it’ll take time, but it’ll work eventually.
Just because something says "moisturizing" on the label, it doesn't mean that it 100 percent is. I've seen plenty of products that claim that, but when you look on the back, you read protein ingredients or "coconut oil" which a lot of beginners starting with hair care, should know that coconut Mimicks protein in the hair shaft. Also, everyone needs to know the type of hair that they have and not just the hair porosity. The products that work for you, may not work for someone else, so recommending a hair mask may not work for someone, of they are picking a mask with heavy ingredients that weigh their hair type down. Type straight a,b or c, wavy a, b, or c ECT... Every hair type needs something different. Heavy products may weigh down a certain type or could work for a certain type. It's pretty confusing sometimes. 🤦 I'm just figuring it all out myself. And then it gets even more confusing if you want to have sulfates in your products or not. Or go without sulfates and just stick with a clarifying shampoo that you use from time to time. Sigh. I hope it gets easier. I'm having a hard time figuring out my porosity level. I was thinking protein overload because I noticed that a lot of my products have coconut oil in basically all of them. So thought it was protein over load and after watching this, I'm even more confused at low or high porosity. I feel like it's easier to pick out protein products rather than those that are moisturizing because of the coconut oil in all products
Porosity is mainly about how damaged your hair is. If you have chemical damage (colored hair) your hair would be a higher porosity.
And you’re right about products saying “moisturizing” and they do contain proteins. That’s why it is important for each person to do their own research!
Yeah it’s called having a consicous
first like and comment;)
Im so confused bc my hair acts like it has too much protein but all my products say moisture on it?!!?
there can still be protein in the ingredients! check the ingredients and make sure you clarify your hair too!
Immediately low porosity using the stretch test
Great video.....
Watching water droplets falling *out* of my hair, rather than absorbing.... Me: Oh. (Not what I had expected.)
HabitusCræft 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ugh I am SO dumb. But you seem to know a lot, PLEASE help. My hairs stretches then breaks so I don’t know. I throng it needs protein?? But I’m so scared because I know before I bleached it a ton it USE TO have too much protein. So I’m scared that if I put protein in it, then it’s gonna make it worse because what if it has a protein build up?? I’ve bleached my hair a ton and it is destroyed. I use olaplex all the time, have tried tons of masks. I just bought a protein and a treatment because the moisture treatments aren’t going anytbung for my hair. I’m PRAYING my hair doesn’t get worse
If the moisture treatments aren’t doing anything I think the protein will most likely help! Just do it 1 time and see what happens! Don’t forget to clarify if need be too 😄
It helps so much
It breaks but the signs say that I need protein ☹
I would split your hair down the middle, apply a deep conditioner on one side and a protein treatment on the other, and see which side turns out better in the end! that will let you know :)
@@LifeWithJenn oh ya! Thank you 😭🖤
What about apple and lemon extracts? Are they a protein? Love the video. Thanks so much. Subscribed
I have no idea!! That's something I will have to look into :)
No, those are acids. - bio student
You know what i ditched everything and just went back to ultra basics, here in Norway we have a product line by Sunsilk, dirt cheap stuff, we're talking as cheap as two bucks for a bottle, i love their shampoo and it's the best shampoo, my mother also use it and she has some of the most incredible hair I've seen, you don't even need a conditioner, for the simple fact that it contains none of the harmful proteins that end up fucking your hair up like high end products do, all it does is clean with sulfate which there is so much fear mongering about, when ironically high end products make a far greater mess out of your hair than sulfate alone ever will, frankly probably most drugstore products will suffice, same with skin care, i just keep it ultra basic, the more crap you put on the more problems there will be down the road. This is the uncomfortable truth for many, there really is no need for expensive shit, our hair is perfectly capable of staying healthy when left to it's own devices, unless you damage it.
Yep! I love the basic things too, here in the US!
Thank you love!
you have gotten wrong what hair porositty means miss
Thank you 💕…….. is that video applies to on straight hair??? 🗯😔
straight hair doesn’t need as much maintenance as curly hair, so if your hair is naturally straight with absolutely no bend to it at all, i wouldn’t worry about this
I have low porosity hair but i need the same amount of protein/ moisture but im not sure whether thats right because you were saying if ur hair is low porisity you will need more moisture and a little protein.
Everyone’s hair is different! If you do have lower porosity but you Mr hair still likes protein, and you don’t experience protein overload…like super frizzy hair that tangles and feels like straw, then you’re giving your hair what it likes! Not everyone will fall under the same category and have the same needs