Fascinating video! This channel absolutely needs more of these debates. This reminds me of the conversations on the Paddlewoo podcast, although they tackle it from a surf perspective. Specifically, in regards to volume and what they refer to as "the race to the bottom". More and more athletes are using boards with such low volume that they sink to their waist or more when standing, and spend more time paddling prone than standing up. When does "stand up paddlesurfing" turn into "paddle wave catching"?
I wonder if bigger guys not necessarily out of shape but rather bigger athlete will struggle with boards like these. When you are around 210-220lb I think these narrow boards will not provide any advantage.
I agree with you. There is a tipping point whereby the volume may well be too little or the centre of gravity being higher on a taller person makes the board too inefficient or hard to use. That's just natural selection of a sport starting to take hold (a bit like basketball players being tall or rowers having proportionally long arms) - in the end, the right people of the right shape will be the ones dominating the races. However, this shouldn't stop most of us trying new boards or when racing locally.
I´m 6´0" and weigh 196-200 lbs. A lot of paddle experience. I use an Allstar 14 x 24,5 wide(2018) in all conditions and feel totally comfortable. The secondary stability of this board is superb! A friend is at 188-190 lbs and uses an Allstar 14 x 23,0, but he´s professional. 23,0 is too narrow for my Comfort level.
I did find it was like a bicycle. i.e. the faster you go, the more stable it becomes. You do feel like your starting over though - after an hours paddling it the first time, my legs were hammered !
Hi, how easy or hard, its for a beginner to intermediate paddler a race 12.6 x 26" or 27" wide inflatable sup board? I owned a '11.6 x 30 and 12.6 x 30 inflatables but i'm thinking for something more advanced? Any advice?
Hey George, Thanks for your question. It really comes down to your paddling conditions and your body weight. If you are paddling in flat water conditions most of the time then most paddlers will find the move down in board size a bit wobbly maybe for the first few goes but after that the progression is fairly quick. But heavier paddlers paddling in choppy conditions would find the transition harder. Thanks Reuben / SUPboarder
@@SUPboardermag Great video! From what you learned, is there a sweet spot for rider weight/width for newer paddlers to move from that first 29.5" touring hard board to a race board? Using the All Star as an example, as a lighter paddler (5'11", 70kg) would the overall tradeoff be better to go a little narrower - like 24'5 vs 26" - for less volume vs wider for stability and have the board be too much of a cork? Or will the reduced stability be too much of a jump even though you'd be at the bottom end of the weight range on the wider board?
@@jhull4981 a 26' wide would be an achievable jump for you, but if you are paddling very flat water, you might manage a 24.5 - it will be wobbly initially but after a bit of time on the board can get used to it and will go much quicker as a result. The all star 2017-2019 bottom profile really does a lot to help primary stability and its the most pronounced in pure race boards compared to touring shapes, so it really makes a huge difference. I wouldn't say the 'cork' effect you mention should be considered really. Width and bottom shape will be the main contributor to stability. I hope thats gone some way to clarifying things? Does that help? Are you able to demo any shapes? Thank, Will - SUPboarder Expert (67kG)
I think it comes down to who's riding it. Just last weekend at Sup11CityTour, there were predictions flying that Seychelle would have problems to win with the final time trial as she has to gain 3.30 min in the final 27km against Yuka. Seychelle on a SIC Maui 23" RS and Yuka who is on a Starboard 21.5" Sprint with the added difficulty that we would be faced with 12kn headwinds along way. The result is proof that skinny boards does not always give you an advantage. Training, determination and experience is what wins the race. Not only did she win the race, she additionally also crushed a 9 mins gain to the overall finish time. Imagine how much faster she'd be if she did have her 21.5 RS board then.
My view has always been that in many sports at an amateur or age group level, its lifestyle choices (such as fitness, training volume, stress) that are the main influences of a result. However, at an elite level, natural selection has taken place and more things are equal and maxed out so the margins can be so much tighter. With that in mind, it's the equipment choices that can often tip the balance.
Tricky. Its hard to say and not proof as such as Seychelle's result could have been in spite of the board she had, not because of it. If she'd been on a 21.5, it's plausible she could have won with a bigger or smaller margin. We'll never know. Either way, that was an awesome paddle she had.
Great video although I'd say I disagree on it being necessarily a competition of balance. I find it great that people don't have to use one board because it would put people into a disadvantage, someone lighter can go with a narrower board and balance just fine but they're smaller so they won't have as much strenght but that could be compromised by them having less resistance by using a narrow board meanwhile someone heavier will use a wider board so they won't have to be in a balancing competition but they can compensate more resistance from the board by having more strenght in their strokes. It's an exclusive sport for sure but I wouldn't say it's because of some people being able to balance better but because of the prices of the boards 😂 I mean I can go and enjoy doing it in my free time but if I wanted to race it seems like I'd have to rob a bank to just get a board and a quality carbon paddle. The board you use does a lot I could train much more than anyone else but I'll never be faster than someone that will have a hard race board made out of full carbon for like $4000, the prices are just crazy, definitely something not everyone can afford.
Hi Bernhard. Yep, I completely get your point. There is a lot to cover (and if i included the way I capture test data as well, it would be a full blown lecture). The bottom line is that boards use is so individual, showing you me wobbling around probably wouldn't help much.
Great video. Would be good to see one on race paddles as well. I've been racing for one year and still using a two piece standard paddle. Advice on race paddle selection would be great. Thanks
The spint is a terrible board. It's like paddling a log. Zero purpose for it. In fact, most Starboards are not for me. Try before you buy....every company makes a different one and everyone paddles a little different.
Its definitely worth trying as many boards as you can for you buy one. But to be fair the Starboards sprints are pretty popular with a lot of racers out there and they do seem to get a fair amount of good results too. What is your board? Thanks Reuben
@@SUPboardermag I just bought the new Gen R. Yes. You're right. I do want to be fair and give a contrasting POV because everyone praises Starboard, but I don't. I don't love the new Gen R either. I have been paddling for a decade and I still feel like I haven't found my "best board". Try before you buy...that's all.
Thanks for getting back, Yes you're right try before you buy. Sorry to hear this is not the board for you. Good luck at finding your best board, when you do I would love to know what it is also. Thanks Reuben
That's why pretty much everyone has a different board in races. It's not that there's a single one best board those people who race have to try out many boards and then decide which is the best for them. There's compromises between narrow and wider boards and just because someone is gonna have a narrow board doesn't mean they have to necessarily be the fastest someone can have a 23" board but they will be a bit lighter so they'll find it easier to balance on a narrow board but then there can be someone who is heavier and has a 25" board and it might be wider but they will have more power in their strokes wont have to worry about balance as much and they might be faster. You might call it as stable as a log but since it won competitions some people might think otherwise
Regulation is not the answer. I’m a smaller guy. It’s stupid for me to paddle a 28 inch wide board and when I’m doing really well on a 22. A race is competitive so let it be. I don’t see any amateurs beating Connor Baxter anytime soon simply because their board is narrower.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Fascinating video! This channel absolutely needs more of these debates. This reminds me of the conversations on the Paddlewoo podcast, although they tackle it from a surf perspective. Specifically, in regards to volume and what they refer to as "the race to the bottom". More and more athletes are using boards with such low volume that they sink to their waist or more when standing, and spend more time paddling prone than standing up. When does "stand up paddlesurfing" turn into "paddle wave catching"?
I wonder if bigger guys not necessarily out of shape but rather bigger athlete will struggle with boards like these. When you are around 210-220lb I think these narrow boards will not provide any advantage.
I agree with you. There is a tipping point whereby the volume may well be too little or the centre of gravity being higher on a taller person makes the board too inefficient or hard to use. That's just natural selection of a sport starting to take hold (a bit like basketball players being tall or rowers having proportionally long arms) - in the end, the right people of the right shape will be the ones dominating the races. However, this shouldn't stop most of us trying new boards or when racing locally.
I´m 6´0" and weigh 196-200 lbs. A lot of paddle experience. I use an Allstar 14 x 24,5 wide(2018) in all conditions and feel totally comfortable. The secondary stability of this board is superb! A friend is at 188-190 lbs and uses an Allstar 14 x 23,0, but he´s professional. 23,0 is too narrow for my Comfort level.
Right shape = Michael Booth :)
I did find it was like a bicycle. i.e. the faster you go, the more stable it becomes. You do feel like your starting over though - after an hours paddling it the first time, my legs were hammered !
Don’t the prices of race boards already make it an “exclusive” sport? I am of course talking about racing.
Hi,
how easy or hard, its for a beginner to
intermediate paddler a race 12.6 x 26" or 27" wide inflatable sup board?
I owned a '11.6 x 30 and 12.6 x
30 inflatables but i'm thinking for
something more advanced? Any advice?
Hey George, Thanks for your question. It really comes down to your paddling conditions and your body weight. If you are paddling in flat water conditions most of the time then most paddlers will find the move down in board size a bit wobbly maybe for the first few goes but after that the progression is fairly quick. But heavier paddlers paddling in choppy conditions would find the transition harder. Thanks Reuben / SUPboarder
@@SUPboardermag Great video! From what you learned, is there a sweet spot for rider weight/width for newer paddlers to move from that first 29.5" touring hard board to a race board? Using the All Star as an example, as a lighter paddler (5'11", 70kg) would the overall tradeoff be better to go a little narrower - like 24'5 vs 26" - for less volume vs wider for stability and have the board be too much of a cork? Or will the reduced stability be too much of a jump even though you'd be at the bottom end of the weight range on the wider board?
@@jhull4981 a 26' wide would be an achievable jump for you, but if you are paddling very flat water, you might manage a 24.5 - it will be wobbly initially but after a bit of time on the board can get used to it and will go much quicker as a result. The all star 2017-2019 bottom profile really does a lot to help primary stability and its the most pronounced in pure race boards compared to touring shapes, so it really makes a huge difference. I wouldn't say the 'cork' effect you mention should be considered really. Width and bottom shape will be the main contributor to stability. I hope thats gone some way to clarifying things? Does that help? Are you able to demo any shapes? Thank, Will - SUPboarder Expert (67kG)
I think it comes down to who's riding it. Just last weekend at Sup11CityTour, there were predictions flying that Seychelle would have problems to win with the final time trial as she has to gain 3.30 min in the final 27km against Yuka. Seychelle on a SIC Maui 23" RS and Yuka who is on a Starboard 21.5" Sprint with the added difficulty that we would be faced with 12kn headwinds along way. The result is proof that skinny boards does not always give you an advantage. Training, determination and experience is what wins the race. Not only did she win the race, she additionally also crushed a 9 mins gain to the overall finish time. Imagine how much faster she'd be if she did have her 21.5 RS board then.
good comment
My view has always been that in many sports at an amateur or age group level, its lifestyle choices (such as fitness, training volume, stress) that are the main influences of a result. However, at an elite level, natural selection has taken place and more things are equal and maxed out so the margins can be so much tighter. With that in mind, it's the equipment choices that can often tip the balance.
Tricky. Its hard to say and not proof as such as Seychelle's result could have been in spite of the board she had, not because of it. If she'd been on a 21.5, it's plausible she could have won with a bigger or smaller margin. We'll never know. Either way, that was an awesome paddle she had.
Great video although I'd say I disagree on it being necessarily a competition of balance. I find it great that people don't have to use one board because it would put people into a disadvantage, someone lighter can go with a narrower board and balance just fine but they're smaller so they won't have as much strenght but that could be compromised by them having less resistance by using a narrow board meanwhile someone heavier will use a wider board so they won't have to be in a balancing competition but they can compensate more resistance from the board by having more strenght in their strokes. It's an exclusive sport for sure but I wouldn't say it's because of some people being able to balance better but because of the prices of the boards 😂 I mean I can go and enjoy doing it in my free time but if I wanted to race it seems like I'd have to rob a bank to just get a board and a quality carbon paddle. The board you use does a lot I could train much more than anyone else but I'll never be faster than someone that will have a hard race board made out of full carbon for like $4000, the prices are just crazy, definitely something not everyone can afford.
Thanks for your comment.
There should be weight divisions
it would have been cool to show it not just talking... just talking 9 minutes is too much.
Hi Bernhard. Yep, I completely get your point. There is a lot to cover (and if i included the way I capture test data as well, it would be a full blown lecture). The bottom line is that boards use is so individual, showing you me wobbling around probably wouldn't help much.
Great video. Would be good to see one on race paddles as well. I've been racing for one year and still using a two piece standard paddle. Advice on race paddle selection would be great. Thanks
Funnily enough, I got asked the very same thing the other day so that will likely be the topic of the next one of these.
@@butterworthdecorators2916 Your wish is now granted ! - ua-cam.com/video/scWjRsy_t6A/v-deo.html
The spint is a terrible board. It's like paddling a log. Zero purpose for it. In fact, most Starboards are not for me. Try before you buy....every company makes a different one and everyone paddles a little different.
Its definitely worth trying as many boards as you can for you buy one. But to be fair the Starboards sprints are pretty popular with a lot of racers out there and they do seem to get a fair amount of good results too. What is your board? Thanks Reuben
@@SUPboardermag I just bought the new Gen R. Yes. You're right. I do want to be fair and give a contrasting POV because everyone praises Starboard, but I don't. I don't love the new Gen R either. I have been paddling for a decade and I still feel like I haven't found my "best board". Try before you buy...that's all.
Thanks for getting back, Yes you're right try before you buy. Sorry to hear this is not the board for you. Good luck at finding your best board, when you do I would love to know what it is also. Thanks Reuben
That's why pretty much everyone has a different board in races. It's not that there's a single one best board those people who race have to try out many boards and then decide which is the best for them. There's compromises between narrow and wider boards and just because someone is gonna have a narrow board doesn't mean they have to necessarily be the fastest someone can have a 23" board but they will be a bit lighter so they'll find it easier to balance on a narrow board but then there can be someone who is heavier and has a 25" board and it might be wider but they will have more power in their strokes wont have to worry about balance as much and they might be faster. You might call it as stable as a log but since it won competitions some people might think otherwise
Regulation is not the answer. I’m a smaller guy. It’s stupid for me to paddle a 28 inch wide board and when I’m doing really well on a 22. A race is competitive so let it be. I don’t see any amateurs beating Connor Baxter anytime soon simply because their board is narrower.
Thanks for sharing your comment. Great points. Thanks, Beau
Don’t the prices of race boards already make it an “exclusive” sport? I am of course talking about racing.