Help, My Post Hole Digger Won't Go Down
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2023
- Got an e-mail from a viewer who is having trouble with his post hole digger, or post auger as they're sometimes called. He's trying to dig corner post holes and the auger goes down about 2 feet and then spins and won't go any further. He lives in the Missouri Ozarks not far from me, so there are a lot of rocks there. But, he's had previous success with the PHD, and was wondering why it wouldn't be working now.
I know of only three possibilities. The first is easy. Most tractors have an adjustible "stop" on their three point lever. It's there so when you find the perfect height for running your brush hog, you set it, and then your lever won't go below that point. So you can lift your cutter when you want to turn or go down the road, when you drop it, it's going back to the same place it was. If I have mine all the way forward to the lowest point, I still must move it past the stop to get the three point to go to the lowest possible location. Either that, or an issue between where the position and draft control levers are set (not all tractors have draft control), could mean the tractor's three point won't go all the way down.
If the auger is not the culprit, the next thing to check is a dull auger tip. a post hole auger will have a replaceable (hopefully) tip on the end of it. When those get dull, it's really hard to get an auger to go into the ground. I don't think my viewer's issue is a dull point, because he wouldn't get the first two feet if that were the issue.
The most likely issue is a clay pan or "fragipan" below the surface of the soil. Those are a packed layer of almost pure clay, bonded together and they're fairly common in the Ozarks. Most of the time, water won't go through them. If that's the issue, I don't have a good solution. Trading for a three point post hole digger with hydraulic down pressure might help, or for a front mount, hydraulically-driven auger would benefit. Either option puts down pressure on the digger, versus just the weight pushing down on a standard model. He could probably upgrade augers and maybe find something that worked better, or he could just call a fence company and tell them to come and dig out his corner posts. That might be cheaper in the long run than investing in expensive equipment. Most any fence company knows a way to dig out a hole, even if it's solid rock.
Those are the only solutions I know, short of moving to an area with more topsoil. If you have additional solutions, please put them in the comments down below.
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My Dad and I ran into this sort of problem ourselves. We added a pipe onto the auger. Dad would jump on the extension to get it to dig. We finally figured out that if we would sharpen the cutting edge it would work just fine until it got dull again. We had checked it out before and didn’t think that was the problem but we sharpened it. Lo and behold it worked.
Mike, you forgot to mention adding weight/oad on the digger. Some have a pole that allows a 2nd person to push down on the digger and add force. Or you can add suitcase weights to the digger.
I like your first suggestions. I have had that happen to me.
BTW, I don't think he meant delirium ...but dilemma
Good video Mike. Working for the Power company we use a Auger on our Derrick Digger Trucks every day, setting poles. In hard rocky ground we use a rock auger. The rock auger is slow digging but gets the job done. It basically works like a hole saw. In dry ground we add water to the hole when we can get water. It helps the soil and rock fragments stick to the auger so you can clean out the hole.
LinemanG
i use a bale spear to make a pilot hole, then auger it, works great!
We have red clay (aka red concrete) in a lot of spots.. I welded a 2 inch piece of rebar that extends about 4 inches past the auger tip. Seems to make just a big enough hole for the auger to catch.
Thanks Mike for a great channel. Lots of good info. Keep it coming.
Mike, I heard words on this video that I have never heard in my life. We're always learning................
I've just been dealing with the same problem. Two feet down and my auger wouldn't go any further. I have a second auger that is smaller in diameter and looked as if it has a better point on the end so I swapped out for the smaller diameter auger and it solved the problem.
If it’s adjusted properly, I’d say the fragipan is what it is. I’ve run into that before myself. We got the holes as deep as we could, tamped and concreted them, and went on about life.
I was wondering if concrete in the 2-ft holes would do good enough...
If you are using the 3PH, have the remotes match on the tractor and auger (m&m on one, f&f on the other) so you can easily reverse the rotation if it gets stuck on a root. Otherwise, a FEL auger is the way to go. Hydraulic flow was a major concern for me when I bought my tractor. Cross shop, and you quickly realize how much less you get for your money with John Deere.
If it’s going to a consistent depth in multiple holes, I’d also mention the way the auger is set up as a possibility. Most of them have a few holes you can pin the yoke to the boom with. The hole closest to the tractor holds the auger higher for travel, but it won’t drill as far. The hole farthest from the tractor allows the auger to travel farther into the ground.
Hi Mike, good video as usual. I'm a little late seeing it.
I had the same issue as your viewer a couple of weeks ago. I live in New Hampshire and we also have very rocky ground with a good clay layer.
I had bought a used post hole digger a couple of years ago and it never cut great but did the job for what I needed if I put some weight on it. I recently tried to install a few fence posts and the hole digger was behaving just as your viewer described. It would go down about a foot and then just sit there and spin. After trying a couple of spots with the same result, I took a closer look at the auger and realized the cutting teeth were bent backwards, opposite the direction of rotation. I was pretty surprised, as these teeth are at least 1/4 inch steel, and were bent so far back I couldn't even get the bolts out to replace them. I took the opportunity to upgrade from a 6 inch to a new 9 inch auger bit and it cuts like butter. It made the rest of the job a breeze. I'll email you some pictures of the auger.
I've seen several three point post hole diggers with heavy weights strapped to the top to help with down pressure. Probably not the best but might help if you don't break something 😀
Extend back on the post hole auger boom and hang a 50 to 150 lb weight. Give that auger sone extra bite.
Might need to go down with thw 4 inch auger, then 6. 6 should be enough for a fence post. the common 9 and 12 may not make it through with less than a power pole setting truck.
What if the hydraulic lift arms are fighting the top link after it gets so low? Maybe even lift arm sway chains are too restrictive? I would put money on a too long PTO shaft that's binding.
I had the same problem on a new 3 point auger. I ended up making longer cutting blades. Part #1 in that diagram you showed. And I welded them on to get rid of the bolts that would normally hold them on. It now cuts really well. Hope that helps someone!
"There's all kinds of ways to dig a hole where God didn't intend a hole to be." Probably the best quote I've heard on the internet this week🤣🤣🤣
Is there a possibility that there's a bind in the very long PTO shaft that's preventing the shaft from sliding back into itself as the geometry changes as the auger is going down?
Yes!
The best way I found was taking a cordless hammer drill will a 3/4” bit or bigger and drill hole in that hard pan if it’s a rock drill a bunch of holes next to each other then put a chisel bit in it and switch it to hammer only mode and across the holes until it breaks or you can just run the chisel into the dirt in a bunch of places but it likes to get stuck compared to a drill bit. After that then try your auger again. That has worked for me with hitting rocks or hard pan.
I would first take the auger off just to make sure the boom will go down far enough, and make sure the gear box swings back and forth freely in the mounts. After that, if you can get a helper, weld something on the boom to stick a 5 ft or longer metal bar in from the rear and have the helper push down. This can also help get the auger in position if you have a lot of play in your 3 pt arms. If getting a helper isn't practical find some way to add weight, it's the cheapest thing to try.
Rent a skid steer with augur and jack hammer attachments for a week. Between being able to apply a tremendous amount of down pressure and having the capability to chisel out any rocks encountered, that will be 10x as effective as a 3-pt augur on a tractor (plus you can reverse the drill if you need to!) and probably not all that expensive. Certainly less expensive than having the fencing company do it with the labor charge on top of what they will charge you for the wear and tear on their equipment (likely a skid steer with augur and a jack hammer attachments....)
If you just can't dig due to rocks, cut a cattle panel in half, make it into a circle and fill it with rocks. Makes a fine corner post, I have several on my place N/E of Mikes.
In our part of Texas we use a Belltec tm48 or a hydraulic down pressure kit on a conventional post hole digger but if you have all the toys use a front end post digger on a skid steer.
I used a second tractor and push down on top of the auger with a front end loader. Get the front wheels off the ground. Works most of the time except for tree roots.
Speaking of digging a hole in Florida with a tractor bucket. I have been watching another UA-camr (Hank Hamilton) and I had to comment to him that his ground is like powder. I live in central Maine and depending on what part of Maine you live in, we can vary from ledge to sandy soil in a short distance. My wood lot has ledge in one spot and powdery dirt two steps away. Keep videos coming.
I had the opposite problem 2 years ago when I needed to make a post hole. We have some heavy wet clay here and it had just rained quite a bit. The auger started no problem and about 2 feet down I couldn't pull it out to clear the auger. The vacuum was so strong my 60hp tractor couldn't pull it out and the auger wanted to continue drilling down for oil. 🤣 I had to put the tractor in gear and rock it forward and backward slightly to break the vacuum and hope I didn't bend the auger. It worked.
Make sure the cutting teeth do not have roots wrapped up, other than that your PTO shaft is too long and binding up.
This sounds like the same problem I have found here in Oklahoma with nasty clay. A tell tale is if you add water and it makes it worse the problem is the replaceable teeth on your auger have rounded out and will not dig. The screw in the middle of your auger is only to keep it straight not pull it down. If you hit hard clay your teeth should strip off pieces of clay and go down. I had to sharpen and replace my teeth 5 times on 20 holes but it worked for me.
What are the four holes in the top beam for ?
Thank you for the video.
Wished the ih fast hitch would have caught on. Ih wouldn't release the pattent for ther manufacturers. It two point applies downward pressure. It actually lift the back of the tractor up.
It is a little late for Dennis, but if he has third function, it does not cost that much more to get a SSQA auger for the front of the tractor. I have had great success with mine and I am glad the the sales rep where I got my tractor and attachments recommended it. I am just running it on a Kubota L2502, so you don't need a real powerful tractor for it to work.
Mike I would agree, if down pressure on the auger doesn't work he may only have the option of having it done professionally.
Even with my hand auger, if I hit clay, I have to push like crazy to get it to catch. Try adding weight on the auger and see of it will dig in. A sharp tip will help, for sure.
Welcome to the Ozarks
Possibly the cutting edges / teeth are worn down or missing. Or perhaps they are not serrated.
I use serrated teeth and a good point on my Danuser auger to go through layers of fractured shale. Plus it has down force.
If the problem is hard pan a post driver might be a good alternative.
I took my pointy bit off and made a plug out of 2" pipe, so the auger doesn't fill up. And then it drills, slowly but it drills
If it is hardpan clay and you have reach with a water hose, you could try using a pressure washer with the high pressure nozzle. I found it can cut through clay soils pretty good even if fist sized rocks are mixed in, but wear goggles if you do because the mud will fly.
Sounds like a good time. 😄
We had the same problem. We had to rent a mini excavator to dig post holes.
You can get brackets to hang weights on your quick hitch
I didn't hear what model tractor you're using. Have you ruled out draft control issues? If it doesn't want to go any deeper, it won't.
Also, you might try removing the auger bit from the gearbox, and check whether the boom and 3PH have full range of motion. This could allow you to rule out the 3PH control and PTO shaft issues.
My ground is full of football or larger stones. When I built my 60-foot round pen I was sheering at least one sheer pin per hole.
I am new to Northern Missouri so I am learning how to work the soil ( much tuffer than east of the Mississippi were I came from. You are correct A straight blade 48 inch bucket on my subcompact is no match for the undisturbed soil BUT my mini GWT stump bucket digs like butter, putting a grinder to that 3 finger 9" cutting edge made thing's even easier. My point is with these under powered machines the smaller the cutting edge the less force needed to dig. Your problem post hole digger didn't state how big a hole, size machine ect. I plan to get a PHD with a 12" and a 6" drill, my plan is to drill step holes 6 then12", material is material be it rock, steel, dirt ect. the center requires more force than the outside edge. by having a pilot hole it should in theory require less force and concentrate more pressure on the outside cutting edges. of course this method is subject to actual trying it. the other thing is controlled feed, not hogging to much ( you want to dig not screw the auger into the ground), Drill bits are not that expensive, 6" was $140 the 12" under $200,that was a 18hp CountyLine from tranny supply TSC for about $600 bits not included. One nice thing about the tuff layer is it almost like poured concrete, so you don't need a hole much bigger than your post if going deep. many shallow holes (18"x 2 1/2" I have dug didn't hold up well when the soil got wet ( this was PVC pipe for shooting targets stands) had to go better than 24" or more. Don't know if this helps I am soon to find out, good luck to your problem hole digger.
Be careful with your step plan, these augers don't work like a twist drill bit. A twist drill bit can stay centered because of the tapered tip, so stepping up works pretty well, but PHD augers stay centered by the small replaceable tip, so if you're trying to make a small hole bigger there's nothing to keep the bigger auger centered, and stepping hole sizes seems like a not so easy thing. I've never tried it, but I'm pretty sure I've read on a forum somewhere that trying to step auger holes and it not working well at all.
@@tominsc9909 I agree, as I stated I haven't done it yet, but it will be interesting to try, I would think once your larger bit got deep enough it would guide itself, at the start yes the bit might walk around, but the key is pilot hole size, the hole can't be much bigger than the web of the bit. I am not really out anything because I need both size bits anyways. I will post my findings after i attempt it.
I rememberd someone having an issue with depth due to which hole the top link is connected into. I think mine has 3 choices.
Interesting
Could it be a shear bolt broke and binds just to start using it ?
👍👍👍
If it is hard pan and he doesn’t have a lot of holes to dig maybe renting an electric jackhammer would help
May be able to get a rock auger to put on the auger motor
Here where we get only 19 inches of rainfall we use water soak. Have to wait a week till it has time to equalize moisture.
It's probably a draft control issue, but sharpen and have a blacksmith hard surface the tip. Though I caution against it we have hung a 3/4 grown teenager on each side of the auger for added weight.
If he can pound a t-post in enough to start a pilot hole the auger might go ahead and grab.
Would the PTO shaft if not cut to give a full range of motion, stop or limit the down motion of the auger?
Forgot to mention buy a belarus, they apparently have down pressure on their 3 pt hitch
My recommendation is to just rent a post driver if that's an option in your area.
Rent a Mini-X or backhoe for a day 🤔?
I agree, this may be the fastest, cheapest and easiest solution.
I got me a heavy hitter post driver with an auger for this red clay rocky soil in the mountains of VA. I am really happy with it. I sold my old post hole digger to make a down payment on it!
Before hearing your spiel would have bet a lot of money on option 1.