What’s the Criteria to be a GOAT Rapper? | AskDEHH w/ Sophie
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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In this new Ask DEHH episode we were asked: Do we think GOAT conversations exclude underground rappers? That turned into a convo regarding what’s the criteria for greatest of all time emcees. Let us know what you think in the comment section.
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About Dead End Hip Hop:
No scripts. It's pure unfiltered hip hop conversations and album reviews. No politics. No BS. We Are The People.
Criteria: Make a 1 or 2 solid albums and then die. It's a very risky marketing strategy, but it takes real balls to pull it off
Seems to work though
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 this had me weak
X tried this one but he forgot to make the "solid" albums.
I mean if Kendrick died right now there'd be no question about who's the greatest.
@@Slesaint17 he made a solid album but he forgot to make it about street life so he's not a goat
Everyone wants to be me smh
LOL!
😂
The Goat I can't with you lol
He ain’t the goat no more 😢
Creativity, Substance, Cultural impact, ability to evolve,
Ex Kendrick Lamar
MF DOOM as well
Aesop rock
Andre 3000 is another good example of that
has DOOM evolved that much tho
MrKing8050 I honestly don't even like Kanye that much, but he fits all that criteria without a doubt.
Consistency and creativity.
That's all. that's why Andre 3000 and Kendrick Lamar are in my top 3.
Rakim or Kanye
Who is Andre 3000?
Nikhil Bhagat Kanye is definitely in my top 5.
Outkast member
Nikhil Bhagat He a goat but nothing consistent about 3 stacks
I believe that Aesop Rock absolutely deserves a spot in the conversation, to me one of the greatest lyricists of all time!
Raven Storm rocky yea if he lock in completely to rapping rocky can actually spit
Caius Rose Aesop Rock not A$ap Rocky
But this is about overall rapping, not lyricism alone. So no, Aesop Rock doesn't qualify.
He's in my top 5. He's incredible.
I don't believe I'm capable of making objective "best" lists. But I can do favorites. And as far as favorites go for me, there's Aesop Rock and then there's everyone else. I connect to his unique sounds far more deeply than any other form of music I've ever heard.
GOAT rapper isn't ever going to be a logical debate. People will just name their favorite rappers. It has to be more specific than that. Greatest lyricist of all time, greatest hip-hop ARTIST, greatest underground rapper, greatest mainstream rapper, etc.
Myles Squared Beats That's a fair way to put it, then if I was to make a list it would be
Greatest lyricist- Nas or Eminem(could had been Big Pun but not long enough discography)
Greatest Hip-hop artist- 2pac
Greatest Underground rapper- MF Doom
Greatest Mainstream Rapper- Drake,Kanye or Wayne
Myles Squared Beats dumbest shit I ever read. Yes it can be an objective debate as long as someone knows how to separate their personal bias from facts
Myles Squared Beats only real answer
Degenerett what facts? how much an artist sold? what other "facts" are there in music? Lmao foh, it's subjective
Degenerett Troll recognize troll. Salute!
Tupac may not have the kind of verses that would make you say "rewind that son," but he had great bars. His lyrics are being taught in elite universities. For me, the criteria needed to be considered a goat is 1. Did you write your lyrics? and were those lyrics thought out? 2. Did you change the game in some way? "Damn, I want to rap like Rakim" 3. Did you have a cultural impact? "Harvard University offers courses using Tupac Shakur's Lyrics". 4. Do you have at least one classic album? 5. Did you have longevity? Longevity in the rap game meaning did you stay relevant for over five years? That is my personal criteria.
I mean music has to come into it. For me it’s great if you can rap. That’s a big part of it. But if your beats or your music isn’t good. Then I don’t want to know.
@@tawermeister99 that's understandable, although I personally put less of a premium on production. Nas is one of my top five favorite rappers of all time, and he's notorious for being a bad beat picker. Even he addressed that in a song
@@sjw4life546 I dunno. Stillmatic has some fire in there.
idk if anybody will see it, but I wanted to share my opinion
Pac made me make that nasty face and say “rewind that shit son” so many times, ppl just don’t dig deep or listen clearly. English is not my native language, but I understand this man so well, even ppl in our country that don’t speak English or do not know it that well love & respect him so much. Pac is very very underrated lyricist and MC in general, ppl discredit his ability as a technical mc very much.
a couple of song I wanna mention that make me rewind ‘em again and again with that nasty face on 😂 One Love.
As the World Turns
outlaw,
all out (OG version),
Made Ni##az
High Speed
Tha Lunatic
Runnin’ on E
Can't be a GOAT without a classic and that's a fact.
jonathan munoz no goat should be skill but also good music simply
Good thing Cole got 2 (and I ain't talkin about mixtapes or 2014 FHD).
@@iansmart4158 which ones are those?
@@NuisenceTV Me Personally, I think 4YEO is a perfect Hip Hop Record. Legitimately perfect from top to bottom; emotional; heartfelt; and a lot more nuanced and thematically dense than ppl tend to give it credit for. Plus the music on that album is simply beautiful.
And BORN SINNER. it's not nearly as perfect, but I think it defined a type of J Cole music that we didn't get before and I don't think we'll ever get again from him. For me, at least, I think he did on that album what Kanye attempted to do with Yeezus.
Born Sinner and Yeezus feel very similar to me. Both are about ego, and sadness, and fragility, and both use dynamic voluminous sounds to get that point across; I think Cole's experiment with that is just more aesthetically pleasing.
literally everyone sleeping on Black Thought. my top 3 in no particular order are Black Thought, MF DOOM, and Kendrick
1. You can't have ghost-writers
2. Gotta have more than one classic.
3. Have to have impacted the genre (underground or mainstream)
Kanye has done 2 and 3 multiple times. He just also happens to have writers help him sometimes as well. Does that disqualify him even though he's probably the most influential rapper of the 2000s?
Ian Smart This mentality will change 20 years from now, I'm sure. Once Drake's career is over, people will look back, accept that ghostwriting is OK and all that jazz. And I also feel 20 years from now, Kanye would be in that top 10 for most people.
I think both him and Drake should be in the convo now. DRAKE AND KANYE are probably the most influential Hip Hop ARtists since Pac. Regardless of taste, that's justs the truth.
Ian Smart Is Drake more influential than Jay or Em?
Ian Smart Kanye steals ideas and songs from other artists bruh he’s great I can’t lie but all he do is take other artists ideas and make people think that he creates his shit out of the blue
That’s a surprise intro - haven’t seen Rod on camera in a while on DEHH haha. Thanks for the upload.
For me, the best rapper is the one who makes the best rap music. It's all about discography. Who makes the best rap albums.
Lyricism, Integrity (no ghostwriting), Influence and Commercial Success. These are the qualities I hold rappers to when considering whether or not to put them in the GOAT conversation.
For me you obviously have to write all of your own lyrics, you have to be lyrically proficient, have classic albums. My Top 5 would be... 2Pac, Nas, Rakim, Lupe Fiasco, Kendrick Lamar
DAMN Lupe 🐐🐐🐐🐐
Lupe? Really?
Lupe ain't gone be appreciated for another 20 years
DAMN lupe..nope.
DAMN Alotta ppl look over Lupe but he’s lyrically in another world
Tupac resonated with the culture. He didn't need the technical ability to get his content across. I really think pac is underated as a lyricist.
Bassit Abdul-Rahman His voice was so powerful.
Acahuana Qori yep that passion from the pit of his stomach. Legendary
"They say Moses split the Red Sea
I split the blunt and rolled a fat one up, deadly"
It's not that Tupac couldn't be lyrical he just didn't want to, it didn't serve his purpose.
King Kunta people don't know bout that blasphemy
Voice, flow, lyrical dexterity, career longevity, classic albums (PLURAL!), respect of their peers and (especially at this point in time) the ability to appeal across several generations of rap fans.
dude there's a difference between being the best and being Great. People have to know who you are to be great and that's with everything. You can't just say a guy down the street is the greatest basketball of all time because he's the best in the hood
I don't know about GOATS but I definitely think that Pac and Scarface are bigger than Hip Hop.
scarface definitely is not. most casual fans dont even know scarface
I consider scarface and nas on the same level. Either one could be the GOAT.
Antonio Sneed Nas doesn't have the discography Scarface has. Scarface, just like Pac doesn't have a single bad album.
Organized Konnection I can debate this. Nas has just as many great albums as Face. I'll start with Face. His first 4 solo projects are great, my homies is a miss, last of a dying breed and the fix are great, so was MADE. Emeritus went under the radar, and Deeply Rooted was great.
Nas first three are great, skip nastradaumus, Stillmatic and God's Son are great, Streets Disciple was a good project, HipHop is Dead was good, Untitled was slept on but it was still good, and Life is Good was great. Kinda even.
Eminem bigger than both
Means he's so mainstream, he's even bigger than pop genres stars
-Album sales
-Lyrics/Content
-Rhymes
-Flow
-Cultural impact
-Consistency/Duration
-At least 2 Classics
-Creativity
My top 10:
1. Tupac (Almost every album is a classic, lyrical genius when he made Makaveli, the most legendary rapper of all time, he destroyed Biggie)
2. Biggie (2 classics, best/coldest flow ever, he had those m'fucking skills, etc.)
3. Nas (Best lyricist of all time, he made the greatest album of all time with age 17-19, he destroyed Jay Z)
4. Rakim (Lyrical genius, 2 classics, he completely changed Hip Hop)
5. Eminem (3 classics, crazy flow, technical god, crazy lyrics and wordplay)
6. Big L (2 classics, punchline king, freestyle king, flow monster)
7. Andre 3000 (Lyrical genius, flow genius, 3 classics)
8. MF DOOM (2 classics, LYRICAL MASTERMIND, the villain of Hip Hop)
9. Lupe Fiasco (Second best lyricist, a genius at everything)
10. Kendrick Lamar/Mos Def
(Kendrick: Great lyricist, crazy flow, 3 classics)
(Mos Def: GENIUS!)
King Kunta No pun?
Love This list
Maurice Roberts He's in my top 13.
This is most casual list ever
This is the list of rappers I consider GOATS
Nas
Pac
Big
3 Stacks
Rakim
Black Thought
Kanye
Em
Hov
Ghostface
Lauryn Hill
Wayne
Kendrick
DOOM
GZA
AZ
There’s plenty more too, but these are my personal GOAT’s. Lyrics, flow, storytelling, creativity, ear for beats/production, sales (can be a factor), rhyme complexities, etc.
honestly hard to create a GOAT rubric lmfao
Tupac was very technical when he started. Go listen to songs like Something Wicked and Young Black Male off of 2pacalypse Now. He simply changed his style later on so that it could fit the way he delivers his message in his music. I'd also like to add that A LOT of those so called "technical rappers" are only technical on a surface level. When you really break down their lyrics, you'll see lots of gibberish. I'm talking about the Bone Thugs, Fushnikens, early Jay-Z etc.
When I speak for Jay, a lot of people didn’t like Jay . People had there eye on him but he wasn’t known to be THAT great of a rapper . He’s clever, but he grew into that the more his career moved on & he wasn’t properly recognized until Encore with Linkin Park . Then given GOAT status when he went platinum for the first time in ‘08
Organized Konnection i say the same about cole, cole started off really rapping proving he was the best "rapper" with his tapes but when he got his audience he realized its not about fitting the most syllables in bar and rhyming 500 words in a song its about the message hes still rapping above average in his class but its more emotion and message like Pac
EneMEEEEZ
Yeah, Eminem has started to suffer from the gibberish problem a bit since he adapted that rapbot flow, which makes me worry about his new album.
Lol what???jay went platinum every album he released after reasonable doubt.all his albums are platinum and he has a record for most no.1 albums in a row.
Top Emcees DOA (not in any particular order):
Canibus
Nas
Eminem
Mos Def
Black Thought
Biggie
Tupac
Big Pun
Talib Kweli
Rakim
Kool G Rap
thisisanewusername good list, how about Big L?
Damn Sophie still fine
"still" lol are you 12?
And you still simpin
gotem
STILL
I’m 3 years late and you ain’t lying she look like bae 😌
To be consider a GOAT you Need classic albums (at least 1) and:
30% Lyrics(bars)
25% Content
25% Songs(flow, voice,sound etc)
5% Consistancy(years in the game making good music)
15% Cultural impact
People come at J Cole's neck because of his fans that overhype him. And it's not even most of his fans that do that just a very vocal minority. This guy makes good songs and while he's not the most lyrical person in the world he can still be very lyrical when the time calls for it he doesn't sacrifice his art for mainstream appeal he produces most of his own beats and Engineers them his self for the most part. plus he can make songs accessible and relatable without them being too dumbed-down down. Dude deserves more credit but he's always compared to Kendrick which has become a curse for him tbh. If he wasn't as famous critics would like him more.
You guys are old heads not because you're of an older generation, but because you guys continue to paint a broad image of all the younger generation consumers. Granted there are a lot of us that will point to 'mumble rap' 'turn-up rap' and say those artists are amazing, but there are still many of us that genuinely like you're opinions and are searching for new music to listen to.
yolochengbeast it’s oddly scary
yolochengbeast lmfao no, this era is garbage. Stop crying
+Degenerett The definition of over generalization. People like you are the reason people in this generation start to look down on past generations, all y'all do is judge instead of trying to influence and inform.
Ultimate Manhunter lmfaoo no, you kids started bashing the past the minute these mumble rappers told y’all to. And there’s no “informing” an era who’s kids swear up and down they know everything lmfao
is absoul a mumble rapper? is kendrick a mumble rapper? we calling vince staples, freddie gibbs, and dave east mumble rappers? son you sound ridiculous
I SEE THAT HARRY POTTER IN THE BACK B I ALWAYS KNEW YOU WAS A REAL ONE MODEST MEDIA
Omar Zahid lol yeah man, The Cursed Child script.
Kendrick is on the his way, if he keeps the same or more momentum, impact, level of lyricism, and mainstream success, he WILL be the best rapper ever
1) Cultural Impact/Influence
2) Quality of Music
3) Body of Work
4) Longevity/Consistency
5) Lyricism/Flow/Versatility/Vocal Presence
Me Against the World is the best Pac album though
Musa Chaudhry big facts his technical lyrics is amazing and production is at its best
Yeah
I have been saying this for years now.
I agree with Ken, it’s awesome to be the only one on a certain artist, and then put other people on that artist and they find out just what they’re missing out on.
And yes, Lil Wayne is one of the GOATS. He was a very good lyricist in his prime. Lil Wayne has quotables for days.
MrVIP1993 no he’s never been a good lyricist. STOP IT.
Rick Sanchez In the mid-2000s. I would say from 2005-2008 in particular, he was killing the game. And he was putting out so much material as well, which is what made it even more impressive, from the features to mixtapes, as well as albums.
Lyrics, beat selection, influence, consistency, and a style and personality and flavor that is entirely your own
My top five; Andre 3000, El P, Pusha T, Big, DOOM
Probably the most unique Top 5 I've seen in a long while. Good on you.
@@refusingtoconform what’s funny is that my list has totally changed by this point, to something a little less original alas
Aesop Rock, Jay Z, Andre 3000, DOOM, Ghostface
But it’s good to know I had good taste once upon a time!
Jcole is put into the goat list by other people other than his fans like nas complex shit even most def and cassidy have said hes great but i think hes put in for some of the reasons tupac is. Cole is one of the most relatable artist thats why his fanbase is so strong. The connection he builds with his fans is crazy in a sense they feel like they are him.
faxxx
I AGREE WITH THIS 110 PERCENT. But to say that is to undermine his ability in some way. he is one of the greatest "idea" rappers of this age. 4 your eyez only alone, is enough to put him in the GOAT convo (IMO).
He is undeniably top 3 of this generation along with kendrick and drake. Anyone who disagrees is just hating.
Jay Smith J Cole is a great artist but an average rapper. In fact I would argue him for GOAT Producer waaayyyyyyyyyy before GOAT rapper.
And that's what's so silly someone like Myke gets so much in his feelings if younger fans can't relate to the artists and music he likes but then acts like no one likes Coles music Lol generalizing shit is one of the worst things to do especially when it comes to something as subjective as Hip Hop
My criteria:
1. At least 2 classic albums with a handful of classic hits which would undoubtably include numbers
2. Your presence in your PRIME/your prime in general
3. Impact (what have you done for the culture/how have you changed it, pushed it forward/affected it, and how strong was that change)
4. Lyricism (rapping ability, flow, double entendres ext.)
5. Songwriting (creativity, execution, ect.)
6. Discography (Your bodies of work/resume)
7. Originality (your sound, rap style, uniqueness)
8. Battle tested (battle rapping beforehand or battling other industry rappers)
Other info:
- You can’t have ghostwriters/or allegations of having a ghostwriter
- I value your accomplishments in your PRIME more then your consistency, simply because there are rappers who have died too early, (that belong in the top 10) to where we never got to see a decline, or maybe even a rise.
- I also don’t value content as much as the rest because its too subjective. Different rappers have gone through too many different things, and too many people have different definitions of content. Thats why I replace it with impact.
- Im not saying that consistency and content aren’t important, but these are too subjective, and would be unfair to certain rappers.
I do think you need some notoriety to be a GOAT. Rappers influencing the future generations is one criteria to me alongside technical abilities. MF DOOM for one is an indie GOAT because he has both technical abilities, creativity and influence on the current generation.
Yeah MF DOOM may not be mainstream, but he has definitely impacted the culture.
- min 2 classics (collabs count)
- Impact (both in their prime and now)
- Relevance
- NO GHOSTWRITERS
Nathan Dem every single mc of all time has been ghost written for at some point
So its official
Drake is the GOAT 💯💯💯
What if they classics are trash and only hyped because of history and sell because I think the Blueprint is BAD, but ppl seem to like it.
Ian Smart for something Top be considered a classic, there's need to be a consensus among fans that agree.
Btw the blueprint is a masterpiece
Ian Smart blueprint is overrated but is still a good album.
Creativity, substance, culture impact, character, believable, bars, inspiration, mainstream appeal, can spit at any pace, respect among other rappers. Thats what I think of in a goat rapper.
I agree
Eminem
Ralph killed me with that "Enemies!" line LMAO
I like artist that have skills on the mic and great discographies, with critically acclaimed albums and relevancy to this day, underground and mainstream included. That's why Ghostface, Redman, Pharoahe Monch, Aceyalone, Gift Of Gab, Aesop Rock, Big Boi and Andre, Quelle Chris, El-P are heavy contenders for being the 🐐
Ghostface is a natural top tier mc he don't realize how good he is.
El-P and Quelle Chris? Whuuuut?
Aesop is so underrated in these kinds of conversations
Dude, finally someone mentions Aceyalone! He doesn’t get enough credit.
i sincerely think El-P was one of the best if not the best rapper during the 2000s. His new partnership with killer mike is lit too
MF DOOM is underground and has mainstream influence
He's your favorite rapper's favourite rapper.
Gozilla facts
Shoutout to Rod. . .the man behind the camera
Every song and album you make has to be consistently dope from start to finish.
You gave DAMN a 7.
still awake M E L O N
I love this channel so much. I’m new to it and you guys make such good points about the world of rap
Make a DEHH top 10 rappers of all time list
I know the appeal of these videos is the "rawness" of it, the feel that it's just four heads talking about hip hop and not some major publication pretentious bullshit but i feel like these discussion videos could use just a little more preparation. If they knew the question before hand so they can have it in the back of their mind for a few days or something I feel like the quality would go up drastically. Still love what you guys are doing. My 2nd favorite hip hop channel after the company man. All love.
j cole fans didn't exist until 2014 FHD
lies kid
earlyman sweatshirt fucking facts
H.T JR cole went from going gold to 2x platinum over the span of 2 albums , lmao it’s not lies at all
earlyman sweatshirt nah a lot of people Been fans since 2013 when he drop that track with Miguel hell even before that
Cole been had fans off the warm up... chill
I think it's possible to clarify with an analogy; McDonalds doesn't have the best burgers on the market, but they do have the most popular. If we can understand that concept and apply it to music, then the GOAT conversation doesn't have to be about sales. Will Smith sold more albums than a lot of artists, but people don't put him in their GOAT list. People use the sales argument when it helps support their opinion.
Kanye is the GOAT to me. First 5 albums, all classic. I don't care about record sales but those are there too. Overall influence and impact on the culture is damn near unmatched. Also gives one of the greatest live shows ever (bringing up the walking out is irrelevant to me because I've seen Ye 3 times, and all 3 times he gave a full show) Not to mention, is responsible for production on SO many other artists catalog that are considered GOATs. Last but not least, he made Can't Tell Me Nothing. End of story.
I almost wrote out a long ass paragraph explaining why Pac should be in the GOAT conversation, then I remembered Justin Hunte made a great vid on it and I'd just be regurgitating everything he said. Just watch that vid if you don't think he belongs
Will you Review the upcoming Jedi Mind Tricks album? Love the channel, keep it up!
Do they have one coming. I know Heavy Metal Kings (Paz & Ill Bill) is coming really soon.
You can't be the Goat with less than 20 years under your belt first of all. So, longevity, skill, impact, critical acclaim, influence, diverse catalog among other things. I check for artists that are battle tested, have great freestyles and are creative.
Aseop Rock, K Dot, Rakim, Pac, Eminem,MF Doom, Kool Keith, Nas, Danny Brown, Lil Wayne, Del the Funky homosapien ,do groups count?
The way Ken said "Extension" instead of xxxtentacion around 10:25 was hilarious
Rakim
Nas
Ice Cube
Kane
KRS
Biggie
Pac
Eminem
Black Thought
Big Pun
Matt Sak Finally somebody said pun.
NO.
Matt Sak KENDRICK
David GNG over who
MCs that should be mentioned in the all time list -
2Pac
MF Doom
Ice Cube
The Notorious BIG (not a fan)
Jay Z (not a fan)
Eminem
Kendrick Lamar
Kanye West
Nas (not a fan)
The Game
Andre 3000
Redman (not a fan but he is extremely underated and impactful)
MCs that should be mentioned in the current generation list -
Kendrick Lamar
A$AP Rocky
Joey Bada$$
Pusha T (Solo career)
Schoolboy Q
J. Cole (NOT a goat but in this generation should be brought up)
Danny Brown
Rapsody
Vince Staples
Tyler, The Creator
Indie artist that should be mentioned -
Danny Brown
MF Doom
Joey Bada$$
PLEASE SUGGEST SOMETHING ELSE
Myke low key pissed me off acting like everybody in this comment section would just shit on his opinion. You guys build your fan base around hip hop and delving further into the genre. It's not like this is twitter or some random blog. I personally would've loved a piece of his underground expertise.
Exactly!
1st- LYRICISM is not limited to "bars". The impact of what is being said rules out. Some of the greatest were able to accomplish this through technique while others such as Pac and DMX made you relate to the emotion. Rap has always been a form of POETRY put to music. In that sense we go with what's most profound. That could be a great tightly woven set of bars or a well put sentiment, etc.
2nd- MASS APPEAL is a major aspect of being the "GOAT". You cannot expect an underground rapper to be in the same contention as a Kendrick or Eminem if no one has heard them. Part of being the GOAT is breaking through that ceiling. If for what ever reason a rapper doesn't have that appeal that is the very "reason" that rapper is not a GOAT.
3rd- CONTENT has always been a prerequisite to being a GOAT, and that is not limited to political or social views. Nas, Biggie, Ice Cube, etc were all able to provide impactful content through storytelling; painting pictures of real life; urban decay; and success. Things you can learn from, live by, or be weary of.
4th- LONGEVITY is a measure of greatness! After all of these years Jay-Z can still impact the face of Hip Hop. Eminem can stop the world with a freestyle. Not because of unrivaled talent, but because of the respect they have earned by being great for such a long time.
5th- LEGACY.. A GOAT will certainly leave it's mark! When you invite the nerd to the cool table things will change, even if only aesthetically. Drake's run has been the greatest rap has ever seen, and not because of any one thing. He has proven that landscapes can change as a direct response to his output.
DEHH this list can serve as criterion for the next time you decide to waste people's time.
Eminem freestyle on hip hop awards?
FIRE
It’s great as usual it’s eminem on a freestyle wtf you expect? That’s runs on his blood
Wayne is GOAT
He evolved as a artist
Made mixtapes hot
A game changer
Like over 20 years in the game
5 classic albums
There's certainly a difference between a good MC (rapper) and a good hip hop artist. The difference between a Big Daddy Kane vs a Fresh Prince.
The best top ten should be your opinion, for me it's:
1.) J.Cole
2.) Ice Cube
3.) Lil Wayne
4.) Schoolboy Q
5.) Rakkim
6.) Logic
7.) Snoop dogg
8.) Asap Ferg
9.) Dr.Dre
10.) Tupac
I like how these artist flow and rap, that's the only way you can come up with a top 10 of your choice
I think it should be judge on overall stats....like the nba
Lyrics
Song structure
Originally
Substance
Consistency
Influence
Impact on the listeners
Album sells
longevity....ect
Although i like underground too...putting them in the goat convo is "almost" like comparing d-league/street ball to the nba...as far as the people visibility go
EricStackzTV Bad comparison. Because there is no one in the d league even close to LeBron.
Legato true...but its hard to judge underground with mainstream because the in general plublic does really know underground rapper...the point that i was trying to make was even if there was a LeBron in the d league...The in general public wouldn't know unless he makes it to the nba
EricStackzTV
I think NBA and street ballers would make a better comparison
Eliezer Caraballo true
If we're going by that it would probably be jay-z
Criteria for being the G.O.A.T. is lyrical ability, cultural influence, album sales, and staying power.
My G.O.A.T. list is, in order:
1. 2pac
2. Jay-Z
3. Eminem
4. Wu-Tang Clan (yes, all together)
5. OutKast (both of them)
6. Kanye West
7. Rakim
8. Kendrick Lamar
9. Nas
10. Busta Rhymes
Lil Wayne, Eminem, Jay Z, Andre 3000, Biggie, Kendrick, Pac and everything after that is a blur
Lakers Nation i rate that list, if i were you i would add Rakim and Nas
Kaileidoscope Nas slipped my mind
Lakers Nation No pun?
Maurice Roberts I don't think pun is on the same level
Lakers Nation Idk man I think pun is, rappers feared pun.
Lyrical ability
Impact
Strong discography (at least 1 classic)
Originality
Sound (sonically)
Longevity
For me = Kanye West.
Come at me
Angel Ferrer you right tho
agree
To me, he is a GOAT hip hop artist but not rapper. I don't feel like he is good enough as an out-and-out rapper to be in that conversation. But if he rapped like he did on MBDTF his whole career, then it may have been different.
MrVIP1993 True, i can’t sit here and say he’s the best lyricist, but Goat all around hip hop artist
I can't come at you. That's a valid opinion.
I literally had never heard about Ka until you guys reviewed HKTS last year since then I've become an insane Stan of his. He's definitely not really know still and considered underground and he's definitely a GOAT in my opinion.
lets discuss whats the criteria to be a rapper first
The criteria is to rap.
What makes an artist goat is consistency, not changing for no man or industry, creating your own wave and having longevity. The people will gravitate towards what's real because the truth stays the same, branching out is good but the ability to sustain a fan base and be original is key, no matter what it's not who did it first yet who does it best and stays true to the people.
Having rappers that cant rap well in the list for greatest RAPPERS of all time is so crazy to me. You don't put basketball players that don't play basketball well in the greatest of all time list. You don't put the most popular players in that list. You have to have skill. But they should also have a great run, the numbers relative to their time, and accolades to back up your GOAT list argument.
You know I really appreciate y’all having this discussion. It really comes down to people talking about who the goat is and what it takes to really clear the field.
The question really becomes GOAT: what do you mean?
And the answer then becomes:
The artist that the most people can agree has really influenced RAP. Not the best rapper, not the best face of rap. It’s someone who will be remembered in time and still listened to.
Im hella hip hop fan. Im checking out for everything. Mainstream or underground or whatever but i need to say i kinda agree with that in a goat convo there cant be a El-P, Reks or Blu in a convo even though i am a fan of these artist and do think they are way better than J. Cole, Drake or idk 21 savage. I think album sales, popularity, fanbase and (also lyrics) influence are important and sometimes in underground they cant be given....so yeah
has to be popular for a long time, and has to be diverse in that time. and has to have a solid fanbase
Damn Sophie just gets more beautiful everytime she's on camera.. Jeeeeez!
My criteria is technical skill (bars), commercial success (sales), impact (culture, pioneering), and timelessness (classics, iconic status). Its a combination of ALL these elements. So that excludes alot of "lyrical miracles" and famous mumble rappers. Bars + impact = GOAT status.
Scarface,MF DOOM, Black Thought, andre 3000,Rakim. with no order.. just the best for me
ENAF very solid top 5
My personal criteria:
1. Attention to artistry. How creative are you willing to be?
2. Rhyme aesthetic, meaning their flow has to be unique and never done before (Check out Pharoahe Monch and Del The Funky Homosapien for examples)
3. Songwriting/content (falls under artistry). I don’t want to hear you rap about how you’re a better rapper than everyone. That shit gets old too quick. Give me some introspection, unpack yourself through your rhymes on a personal level. AND NO GHOSTWRITERS!
4. Musicality. You’re the visionary, and your vision determines your ear for great production. In other words, yes, beats do matter.
5. Consistency.
6. Love for the culture and what it stands for
Kendrick is the goat, the criteria is; Be Kendrick Lamar
BB slingin Naw.
Rick Sanchez he's the goat so.....
@@m.rtheone4698 Yes he is
@@jayrusso1589 No he isn't.
ITMSO is a must
I hate how Myke has such a mean, negative, and holier than thou outlook on his own audience. Ya, sure, you get loud mouths shouting in the comments but there's plenty of deeper hip hop fans that watch this show.
Like you 🙄
It's that most people haven't even heard of most underground rappers. They're called "underground" for a reason. Most people don't go searching for music, they just take what's given to them. I don't think it's an album sales kinda thing. I think it's just "staying power" in the mainstream, because it's all they know. Kanye, Jay, Kendrick, Drake, etc. all have consistent mainstream presence, so they'll generally be considered the greats. Me, personally, it goes anywhere from The CunninLynguists to Luda to Lupe to Pac, etc. I think both underground and mainstream should be acknowledged
My boy Modest Media lookin like Jay Rock
Scarface is another one of those rappers that doesn't have "bars", but is considered one of the greatest. It's his storytelling and longevity that makes him one of the greatest rapper. - Tone
Short Answer : NaS
While to me its J. Cole easy, I can't really argue with that. I listen to Illmatic every morning I wake up.
Ian Smart Sideline story and illmatic are my morning Rotation
sameee
Long answer: not nas
He got everything. He has the impact, he has the record sales, he has longevity, he is as skilled as anyone in the underground.
Myke, it's not just Pac wasn't a 100% punchline lyricist, but he was mostly a poet - the other side of lyricism that largely doesn't get incorporated into GOAT lyricist criteria. Most Black people complain about there not being substance in Rap every decade. Yet when an emcee is poetic, that's not "hood" or "street-appealing" to them, they even mistake that for "lyrical miracle" - sounding White/crossover for Rap heads when that is never the case.
That's why they make fun of their sells, not going Platinum, then turn around wondering why who's popular they bitch and complain about 24/7.
DEHH > Everyday Struggle
G.O.A.T. criteria :
1. A amazing discography ( 3 or more classics )
2. Consistent Lyricism at a astounding level throughout all albums
3. A amazing influence on rap that changed lives and the mindset of people
4. A amazing amount of album sells
5. Willing to talk about hard/ uncomfortable topics and tread into dangerous waters regardless of peoples feelings ....
6. Astounding mainstream success ....
7. Not scared to feature lyrical underground artist ......
8. Respected by underground artist and audiences .....
9. A student of hip hop and know his knowledge on hip hop
Kendrick goat without a doubt. When someone drops section 80, gkmc, and TPAB I'll listen. If we're including artistry then it's kanye without a doubt
Did you get your ktt account yet?
gross guy yes only took a fuckin year. The registration to make a new account was always closed.
True, Section 80 and GKMC back to back alone is enough. (2 of the best hip hop records of the decade). Cole still number 1, but K Dot a close second.
Ian Smart nothing Cole dropped is better than GKMC or TPAB
4 Your Eyez Only is a PERFECT HIp Hop record. Literally perfect.
And I do feel like people confuse greatest rapper with greatest rap artist. Like, I've seen Kanye in a couple top 10 lists, when he doesn't belong in the conversation for greater rapper, but he is one of the greatest hip hop artists of all time
I feel like Myke uses these videos just to moan about fans he doesn't like. A very small number of people actually say this about and definitely not enough to have mentioned. Meanwhile Lil Yacthy fans don't even have these discussions. Can we just stay on topic rather than just going on a tangent about what you don't like.
Rather than telling the comments they don't listen to you give them the choice. This us vs them mentality is so stupid.
Nathan Adeleye lmfao white mumble rap fan triggered
im watching the video right now. mykes talking to ken about bar structure and lyrics.
+Degenerett another bigot who thinks being black mean you know more about rap and gas completely ignored all of my points
Lyrical dexterity, substance, longevity, influence, consistency, and body of work.
Be Lil Pump
Modest Media is the GOAT of Dehh
Scarface a GOAT...just saying
influence, relevance, transcending the culture, praise from peers, creativity, originality, and most importantly, consistency and longevity. People also need to stop conflating 'greatest' with 'best'.
You guys should get a young person 25 or under to give an accurate description of the current generation's opinion
I think I heard myck say MF DOOM was one of the GOAT and I went to hear him and it was the best decision, i don't regret it