If this happened, then Tar-Palantir would be revered as a hero, and not as a failed king. Without him, the Faithful would not even have had what little influence they did in Númenórë's ending days.
I always thought how awesome it would have been if they had taken Sauron prisoner and then secretly arranged a surrender of him to the Valar as redemption for their people. Like "Hey we are still on your side. Oh btw we took the dark lord prisoner. He was talking shit. you might want to come pick him up. Bring Tulkas" 😂😂
@@amyb.6368 Having dealt with Morgoth and his lies, I don't think Sauron has a chance. He'd be tossed into the void alongside his former master quickly.
I loved the first part. It literally left me in tears, but I think Elendil would never have become a mad tyrant. I think the Faithful would bring him back and they would lock the ring in a vault, until such a time as the Council of Elrond was held, with the Kingdoms in exile being founded under the Sons of Isildur and Anarion, as Colonies.
@@QCMP We will indeed keep offering our constructive criticism whenever the opportunity arises. If you want to call that crying that's your trouble. Have a nice day.
@@husky0098 my man you called it the show of unnumbered tears then called it constructive criticism this is why they don't pay attention to the people who actual have constructive criticism
I'll be honest, I laughed out loud as soon as I heard your version of Elendil taking the ring for himself. Out of all of those likely to take the ring, this person is the most unlikely given his wisdom and love for Aman. Nevertheless, this version was entertaining, thanks for working on it.
Even as wise as he was, I don't think he would've fully realized the corruption of the ring. He would have been ensnared by it as most other men. Even the strongest willed man would've fallen to the ring.
@@jlm990 Highly doubtful, and indeed, he would have attempted to find a way to dispose of it or send it to the Valar knowing its malice and ability to corrupt...his son on the other hand is a different story.
I think Elendil was wise enough to know not to keep the One Ring. But Isildur was less wise; Isildur did choose to keep the One Ring in Tolkein's storyline, even though Elrond advised him not to do so. So I would revise your "what if" storyline to become closer to what actually happened: Sauron kills Elendil, breaking the Narsil, and Isildur uses the shards of the Narsil to cut the One RIng off Sauron's hand, just like he did in the Tolkein's storyline. But in this storyline, Isuldur is in Numenor, and the Ring does not have the opportunity to betray Isildur to his death in Gladden Fields. Isildur falls victim to the corruption of the One Ring, and becomes the tyrant. The Ring would like to get rid of Isildur and return to its true master, but this is unlikely to happen as long as Isildur stays in Numenor. So Isildur's tyranny would be long and brutal, and even Sauron would fear to challenge Isildur's armies.
i also don't think Elendil would take the ring. Christopher Tolkien said in unfinished tales that Aragorn was more like to Elendil then any one of his line after him that includes Isuldur and i don't think Aragorn would've taken the ring either those two dudes were just of a different moral stock then most men even Númenoreans
For what I recall, in Tolkien's writings, Isildur never actually succumbed to the corruption of the one ring nor was he told by Elrond or any other to destroy it. He studied it but did not use it's power. The orcs's ambush in wish he lost his life actually came while he was journeying toward Imladris in order to seek counsel from the three elven ring bearers (Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan) having realized the evil nature of the ring and the influence it was trying to gain upon him. Had he reached his destination, he would have given the ring to them in complete trust of their wisdom.
Thank you for the amazing video Yoystan, I had asked you multiple times in streams for you to make a video on “What if Numenor Never Fell?”, it was one of the questions that I always was curious about.
One big hole in your story , when Saroun went as a prisoner to Numenor HE LEFT THE RING IN MORDOR . That is how the Ring survived Numenors downfall in the first place and how Saroun reformed so fast in the second age
I could say a lot of things about this speculative history, but the most important is the observation that, if a "redeemed" Numenor was indeed this dangerous, then it stands to reason why it was allowed to fall instead, and why more wasn't done to dissuade the Great Armament or the cult of Morgoth. This is an important point, to my mind, since I've always thought that the Valar or the One could have done more to prevent this. If, for example, Valinor were taken out of the newly-rounded world at the outset, so that it wasn't physically possible for the Numenoreans to sail there in the first place, the story could have been very different. At the very least, it seems that Manwe could have simply sent that "west wind" that prevented the Numenoreans from landing. On a side note, I'm not sure that Tar-Miriel would have been so quick to resume the throne, rather than abdicating in Elendil's or Amandil's favor. For her long (101 years long) and abusive marriage to Ar-Pharazon, who essentially raped and enslaved her, could have left her badly traumatized and possibly unable to assume her intended role. (Indeed, this trauma may have been why she didn't have enough presence of mind to flee to Meneltarma sooner, which might have saved her life.) And so we have a potential subject for another video: "What if Tar-Miriel had lived?" What if she had survived the Downfall somehow, perhaps by getting to Meneltarma before the Fall or stowing away with Elendil? How much difference could she have made?
If only the Faithful could have had a conclave like the Council of Elrond, which included Elves from Aman, to decide the fate of the Ring. After what had happened with the near downfall of their island, they might well have had the wisdom to resign the Ring to the Elves, with the stipulation that it be conveyed to Aule, who would then unmake it in his great forge, which surely would have been more than hot enough to accomplish this. Sauron, too, they would send in chains in his diminished form, for the long-delayed judgment of Manwe, so that the rebel Maia who had wrought such destruction in Arda could be forever removed from it, and sealed within the Void to keep his onetime Master company.
After the destruction of Númenor, the Valar no longer be directly involved in Middle Earths affairs. Maybe if Númenor wasn't destroyed, this might have happened.
What a great topic, thank you for the video! I believe by the time Sauron was there, it was too late for Númenor to be saved. The only was for her to be redeemed, was lost with Tar-Palantír. What he could have done instead, is pass his scepter to his daughter before he was made feeble by old age, just like the Kings and Queens of old, then spend his last good decade or two gathering support for Tar-Míriel and help her consolidate power. She would have needed an influential Faithful husband so she doesn't have to face the King's Men alone. My first thought for Míriel's husband was Amandil, since they were about the same age, and although they are distantly related (Míriel's grandmother was granddaughter of the 14th Lord of Andúnie, Amandil's grandfather was a grandson of the 14th Lord of Andúnie, according to the family tree I found on Tolkien Gateway), I think that's enough of a generation gap to not have problems. Míriel and Amandil could have also used the Palatíri (which we know were in the possession of the Lords of Andúnie) to help convince influential people about the looming Downfall, by showing them the possible future if they keep up with their folly. It is still possible that civil war would have broken out in Númenor, just as it did during Tar-Palantír's final years as king, but Míriel and Amandil, helped by a still lucid Palantír could have done much to lessen the damage or even avoid the worst with skillful diplomacy.
Here's a question- if anyone went to the top of the Meneltarma could they have survived the great waves? I ask this because in the Silmarillion it says that in Miriel's final moments she was going towards the Meneltarma and then gave a great cry as the waves struck her. But how did any of the Faithful on the ships see this or hear this? The Faithful on those ships were being tossed around due to the violent ocean- so they wouldn't be looking at Numenor or keeping an eye out for anything else but themselves. How do they know what happened to Miriel? In lore it says that Elendil wrote the Akallabeth (I believe), so did Elendil write about Miriel's fate by taking artistic license with the tale? Or were there actual survivors from Numenor who got to the Meneltarma and were spared the wrath of Eru Illuvatar; survivors who caught a glimpse of Miriel, and she being the most beautiful woman on Numenor would not be hard to miss. The Meneltarma is a holy mountain, so you would think that would be spared- sort of like Noah's flood- all those that joined Noah were spared the flood. Perhaps the survivors were rescued either by the Faithful or by the Elves?
All of Numenor sank, not even the Holy Mountain was spared. Only those of the Faithful on the 9 Ships that were anchored off of Numenor were saved from the Downfall of Numenor.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. Even without the Ring, I think the Numenoreans, having been exposed to the King's Men's hubris and the allure of raw, violent power, would have inevitably fallen back into ways of vice. The ephemeral repentance of Tar-Palantir shows that repentance is easier said than done. Virtue is easy to talk about, but difficult to put into practice, since it's seldom the path of least resistance. Stuff like this is why I love the Akallabeth, and Tolkien's works in general, so much.
I would say that its possible that Sauron would have saw the inevitable overwhelming force coming to his dark temple and would have seceded his ring to his would be killer knowing that he would be slain, that or he plotted his own demise to insure his ring survived and would accomplish his plan in a less direct way.
Tbh, it's pretty much what this video described. Isildur would have taken the One Ring and because he was among those who had enough Strength in them, he would have become the New Lord Ring, a 3rd Dark Lord would have appeared. Arguably with how things were at the closing of the Second Age and start of the Third Age, the Dunedain were the most powerful single force in Middle-earth right before Isildur died at the Gladden Fields. The Elves were now scattered, no longer was there a High King of the Elves and the other Elvish Kingdoms had taken blows to their Leaderships & Peoples. Isildur if he hadn't died and made his way to Arnor would be in command of 2 Realms and the most united peoples especially with the 6 Palantir (7th only looked westward) as Isildur could easily see & communicate with those in his lands. With these, more than likely, Isildur as he was corrupted more could just use the Palantir as moving Communication points, likely focusing on conquering South of Gondor, then take over Mordor, push into Rhun. Then Isildur would turn his eyes to the West and attack the Elves, Dwarves and other Free Peoples who would have been in a similar situation in the Late Third Age: Islands in the sea and being attacked from all sides. It would be hard to see how any could overcome the Dunedain who would still be in a very Numenor-like state for their Prowess and Skills even with the loss of many Dunedain during the War of the Last Alliance. Maybe Arnor would have been destroyed if for example the Free Peoples led by the Elves realized that Isildur was becoming and had become a New Dark Lord. Arnor was weaker and more spread out for what few forces would have remained and an attack from multiple directions likely could have seen Arnor destroyed within a few years. If the Mountain Passes, Gap of Rohan, etc were secured than Eriador could have been a gathering point to build up the Free Peoples into a fighting force. But all this is very "What If" and all that. Elrond pretty much stated that Isildur's death averted worse that could have befallen him had he lived & kept the Ring as he clearly intended and held the One Ring for over 2 Years.
I wonder what You would have created with A BILLION DOLLARS. Decades of love for this content roots out the heart versus the corporate heartlessness. I appreciate the heart you put through in your narrations. Better than a billion bucks these days!!!
Although I broadly agree with this interpretation especially as it relates to the misgivings of Gandalf, Galadriel, and the fall of Boromir, I think there is one point which stands against it. Namely that in a very similar situation, rather than accompany Isildur and corrupt the kingdom of Arnor, the Ring betrayed and fled him. I think that the Ring would do its best to return to its master, no matter the means, rather than corrupt and use a mighty opponent.
I would rather ask what if when they sailed to Valinor to make war on the Valar if instead of rolling back the server like in a videogame, Eru had allowed Numenor to make war on the Valar. It would have been awsome, and fun to imagine because at anytime you can just, you know, do what Tolkien said Eru did and roll back the server. So there is a lot there, that you can have fun with, that doesn't break the lore. The disposition of Numenor itself is one that will always lead to its own destruction. That they should have been as greatly temperate, and wise as they were warriors and soldiers is the whole point. That's what leads to everything in the third age. Gandalf, Frodo, Aragorn. If, you know, Elendil had just convinced everybody to not literally worship the devil and Numenor just became peace loving and good again then it's a lot less interesting. The Second Age is Tolkien at his most WWE and Numenor is the epic heel turn we always knew was coming for humanity because slaying the dragons isn't the final victory it's conquering the brutality thats within ourselves.
I don't even think Sauron took the one ring with him when he went to surrender to Ar-Pharazon. Now the text may prove me wrong, but I always assumed that he remained a cautious and cunning being, and so he would have planned for the eventuality of dying at the hands of the Númenoreans. I don't think I'll end ale would have been so foolish as to take a weregild from the guy that corrupted the majority of Númenor.
For the first time I actually find issue with this fan theory, or at least, have questions against it. Would Eru not still sink Numenor for it's corruption by the ring and domination over middle Earth? If not, would the armies of the west still come to the aid of middle earth as in your video on if Sauron recovered the One? Numenor dominating middle earth through obtaining the One doesn't strike me as within theoretical reach of Middle Earth lore. There are too many other theories by yourself and cases in canon where Eru or the Valar get involved before such instances can occur.
One of my favorite What ifs? Thanks Yoystan. If only Numenor could have been saved. It was a gift from Eru and the Valar, but the Numenorians just squandered it because they had little faith in Eru plans for his Second born Children.
I’ve seen plenty of “What if?” videos for many different stories. Surprisingly rare for Tolkien’s Legendarium though. You’re serving a vastly underserved niche.
This is kind of a long shot and I don't know if this will really pan out but for another what if video idea here's one. "What if Bilbo killed Gollum"? With Gollum dead then Sauron would never know the location of the one ring and the one who carries it thus delaying his search for it even more. No nazgul would be sent to the shire and Frodo would never be stabbed by the morgul blade. Though Frodo and Sam would take even longer to reach to Mordor without a proper guide and they will face even greater challenges wether it's the dead marshes, or the black gate. I'm not sure if minas morgul or shelob would be possible because with Gollum dead then they wouldn't know about it. I wonder if Gandlaf would return to help the hobbits. Like I said this may not pan out.
This was a great "What if" video @Men of the West, I hope we see more. If you are open to it, I have two what if you might like. The first is "What if Gandalf never came back from death, but Glorfindel take his place and is given Narya. The second is one I have suggested before, what if The Three Elven Rings never lost their powers after The One Ring is destroyed. Have a nice day and can't wait for more videos.
Nice video, Yoystan! Love your "what if" videos. Keep them coming! I am looking forward to the upcoming book release The Fall of Numenor on November 15!
Great video. I thought the duel between Sauron and Elendil was awesome. But I think Elendil might be able to resist it for a while. Like at least use it as a weapon to tear down Sauron's forces first, thinking about using the ring to destroy Sauron's forces first. And then when he goes to Mt Doom, h decides to keep it. But it is said Sauron hated Aragorn or King Elessar because he resembled Elendil. Aragorn resisted the ring initialy. So I think Elendil would have resisted the ring long enough to throw it into the sea. But that can have its own fair share of consequences.
"It is in men that we must place our hope." If only :/ There would have been such a civil war on that island to rival that of the kinslaying but if they became good again they would have shook the earth so much the One Ring itself would learn fear haha. Maybe the dominion of men would have come sooner? The war of the last alliance would have been the war of the Greatest alliance. Much would have been different
An interesting take, but it seems to presuppose that Elendil was more easily corruptable than Isildur (well, book Isildur, not the character assassination that was the film version). After all, Isildur was killed taking the ring to the elves to consult what to do with it as he realised it was out of his league. Why would Elendil be less wise, or less willing to consult with the elves than his son was?
I think the described events regarding the ring falling into the faithfuls hands would be impossible because Sauron never took the ring to Numenor as he planned on bringing about the fall of the island nation. It would have been lost with his physical form when Numenor was washed away i believe Numenor would survive and thrive but Sauron with no way to directly corrupt the leadership would begin focusing his efforts on corrupting the mainland coastal settlements of Numenorians to develop their own numbers, industry and military capabilities. They would then eventually turn on the lesser men annexing land, enslaving their people and exterminating tribes that resisted. Eventually conflict with the Elves and dwarfs would see the Island of Numenor Ally with the other races to restore faithful ideology to its colonial kingdoms. In the fallout of this massive war would then see saplings of the white tree planted in Annuminas, Minas Ithil and Minas Anor as symbols that these territories still held faith with the west and that its loss was the mark that a region had fallen to darkness that the faithful would then march against to restore what was lost.
A better time to set this video would be during the reign of Tar-Palantir, who was one of The Faithful. However his younger brother was not and Tar-Palantir's nephew, who was not Faithful, took the throne and married Tar-Palantir's daughter even though it was against the law. If Tar-Palantir's daughter had succeeded him Numenor would have remained Faithful as she would make sure her children were raised as members of The Faithful.
I've had a what if that's been bugging me, so I'll share it here even though I fully expect it to not be touched upon since it would start in the Silmarillion. What if Ungoliant had successfully killed Morgoth?
OMG 😱 I was just thinking of theory like this What if numenor remained mighty and fateful but not in contact with middle earth And in the mean time Sauron has claimed one ring has the alliance of Smaug and Balrog can you please make a video like this and tell you theory?
Nice vid. I don' see Sauron having the ring in Númenor, it would have been lost (in the actual history) and I think Sauron's his fair form would have remained as it was his ethereal connection to his ring wrought of lust that dictated Sauron's form later. The ring being the thing that allowed Sauron to return to Middle Earth later. In this new history Sauron would be taken prisoner, and back to the Valar I suppose. Númenor would not be destroyed and the world not torn asunder, so no globe created, and maybe no hobbits appearing?
Aren't Sauron remove his ring and left him in Mordor when he was "captured" by Ar-Pharazon. So he event don't have ring at this point otherwise ring would be lost in Numenore fall. Cause he lost his physical form during the downfall and flee as a spirit back to the mordor.
Well imagine Arwen and Huan just showing up at the gates of Mordor during the War of the Ring. Sauron would probably get a heart attack and die (can Maiar even get heart attacks?).
Very nice! One little tweak: Miriel was about the same age as Ar-Pharazon and his first cousin so I wouldn't expect her to live all that long after his death -- maybe an extra 50 years max for being female and faithful. So Elendil could even have taken up the Sceptre legitimately since Miriel had no heir and Amandil was out of the picture.
Nice job as always these are fun to watch. Although I would have preferred that Sauron escaped with his ring... I just don't think elendil would keep it. Isildur for sure. He did in original story. And numenor could have maybe lasted longer... Although I feel that the kings men would end up somehow messing something up . Maybe one of them could have gotten the ring. But not taking anything from your version it was very good. This was a personal preference I mentioned.
Personally I don't think Elendil would have kept the ring. Keep in mind, it was out of grief for his father's and his brother's deaths that Isildor kept the ring. If however, Elendil and Anarion had fallen in this timeline like the original, and Isildor had cut the ring from Sauron, I could see him keeping it and everything you described coming to pass.
I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure Sauron did not have the one ring during his time at numenor. I think he made it after that, because when numenor sunk under the sea Sauron went down with it. Losing his physical form for a time. So if he had the ring with him he would have lost it then and wouldn’t have had it during the last Aliance which took place years later.
He did have it, it was made a long time before Ar-Pharazôn assailed him. I remember reading in some book and some passage that he "Fled back to Mordor, and took up once again his great Ring" etc.
A very interesting what if scenario. Although I think that if Amandil did warn the Valar that it was indeed Saruon corrupting the men. Then I think if the Valar would've sent forces lead by Eonwe to arrest Sauron and bring him back to Valinor.
I think it more likely that Sauron would flee the island when discovered rather than attempt to fight all the hosts of Numenor by himself. That direction surprised me. The ring is so insidious, I get strong "I win again, Lews Therin" vibes from most of this series.
I see you're assuming Sauron took the ring to Numenor. There are some interesting debates about this on The Red Book and Tolkien Lore. WRT Elendil, I believe he *may* have been powerful enough to stay Sauron's resurgence as a power if he were to have held the Ring for his own.
It would have been more effective if the returning faithful under Amandil coming from the undying lands had taken Eonwë with them to take Sauron captive. Thus making up for the error of leaving him in Middle Earth at the conclusion of the War of Wrath.
Tolkien wrote in one of the letters that he thinks Sauron did have the Ring with him in Numenor and somehow bore it back to Middle-earth by the force of his spirit
Good "What if" but I'd like to think Elendil would be at least as resistant to the ring as Isildur and would have realized what was happening. So, the story then becomes how do the Free Peoples deal with the One Ring at a time when they have defeated Sauron but have no Istari for guidance and no idea that there are Hobbits that are resistance to the power of the One Ring?
I still wonder if Numenor was actually technologically advanced like it was hinted at in Tolkien's earlier works. I know it's against the whole fantasy theme but personally I think it's such an interesting idea
From the very first time i saw this, it's struck me how you've set up a situation here that's remarkably similar to to "Star Wars." What we have here is a cruel, militaristic empire that took over what was once a free and benign government, administrated with force by a great former hero corrupted by dark powers, who in turn is held on a leash by a sorcerous being who stays in the background. All of this happened as the result of what was once a great war to hold on to the very integrity of the old regime, which was corrupted into a power grab by the forces of evil. All that remains now is for some old, mystic being with a hidden past ("Help me, Olorin Kenobi: you're my only hope!") to appear silently and begin nurturing a sort of resistance to the old sorcerer's power, perhaps by recruiting people from forgotten corners of this empire, awaiting or watching over the heir of the puppet ruler somehow, and beginning a series of secretive, heroic quests.
This video started off as ''What if Numenor had remained faithful'' and then transitioned into ''eh they wouldn't have remained faithful for long anyway no matter what'', which really isn't true to the title. An actual ''What if Numenor had remained faithful'' video would require them to REMAIN faithful the whole way through the video, i.e. not have Elendil become corrupted!
Keep up the great work Mellon! I believe that men were incapable of remaining faithful. Being faithful takes sacrifice and discipline. Men will always be jealous or corrupt. It's in our nature...The fact will remain, man sees something better than what they've got, they'll either take it by force or by cunning. "Elendil! Elendil! For the West!!" "Ecthelion!"
Why would the Númenóreans not destroy the ring as Frodo did at the end of the third age? Even if we assume for the moment the ring was not destroyed but taken and claimed by Elendil, why wouldn't the faithful once more rise up against tyranny? I do not believe Númenór was always destined to fall.
Only one thing doesn’t make sense, didn’t Sauron leave his ring behind before being taken to middle earth? His plan was to get captured and bing down numenour but he knew he’d probably lose his form in the destruction which he did. If he had e ring on him when it fell and his body died at sea how did his spirit get the ring back to Mordor? I don’t think h took the ring as he knew he could corrupt them with his words alone, but could he take the ring of? When it’s cut of his finger it destroys his form and he loses a great deal f power but could he take it of willingly and be apart from it? Doesn’t make sense if he had the ring and his body was destroyed in the fall how did he get the ring back to Mordor?
I would guess with Numenor remaining in the sea, Arnold may not exist as it does in the Third Age. Numenor is closer to the southern coast and splitting into two kingdom's may not happen in this scenario. A bigger elvish and dwarvish presence could exist in those lands.
WHAT IF the Balrog had taken the Ring in Moria? Most of the people see the Balrog as a “beast”, as if it were some animal. But we know that this Balrog even tried to undo Gandalf’s spell that locked the backdoor of the Chamber of Mazarbul. So what if the Fellowship had fallen in Moria, and the Balrog had claimed the Ring for himself?
"Bad news fellas, Sauron conquered Middle Earth ... again" "Are you kidding me? Is it his 16th attempt?" "I believe it´s his 17th ... gather the ships?" "Ye ... here we go again" "We take him prisoner again or let him flee to the east afterwards?" "... Shouldn´t we have learned by now?" "Yes Jeff, we should have ... "
The Ring was altogether evil. Any mortal who kept it would eventually succumb to its power. Unless they destroyed it right away (which they wouldn't be able to do on Numenor), I think the same would happen even to the wise of Numenor. Perhaps they would have been wise enough to quickly take it to Mt Doom and destroy it. That's what I would hope for.
I get what you're going for, but I must ask, why would Elendil claim the ring? Given how much he despised Sauron and was friendly towards the elves, it seems out of character for him to claim it at all, or not be immediately warned of it's nature by Galadriel, Gil Galad, or any of the other elves who knew of Sauron's treachery with the rings.
Too bad I haven't read the silmarillion, I bet there's an interesting story in here if I knew what was going on. Im just here to support the channel with a view!
The story of Numenor is the story parallel to the Forbidden Fruit in the Garden of Eden. The island of Numenor was always barely out of reach to Valinor, and Eru Iluvatar knew this since day 1. Eventually, whether it took a thousand or a million years, Men would grow greedy and reach for it, it was always a matter of time.
I forgot to shoutout a Valar tier patron, Alex Grimes! Thanks so much! Thank you all for watching!
The fact that you built your theory around one of Tolkien's own messages... This is the kind of respect that should've gone into RoP.
don't compare these videos to RoP, these videos actually had effort put into them and are backed by research
If this happened, then Tar-Palantir would be revered as a hero, and not as a failed king. Without him, the Faithful would not even have had what little influence they did in Númenórë's ending days.
This is a very interesting "What if?" video. It would have made for interesting reading if Númenor had redeemed itself and existed into the third age.
I always thought how awesome it would have been if they had taken Sauron prisoner and then secretly arranged a surrender of him to the Valar as redemption for their people. Like "Hey we are still on your side. Oh btw we took the dark lord prisoner. He was talking shit. you might want to come pick him up. Bring Tulkas" 😂😂
Oh my goodness, that made me laugh. That is the most hilarious comment I've ever read today. 😂😂😂
"Where do you think you're going Mairon, me fine broth of a boy!"
Tulkas (attrib.)
And Aulë. I think he might want a chat with his former Maia.
I can't help but think then you'd have the smooth-talker loose among the Valar and now some of the Valar become corrupted :D
@@amyb.6368 Having dealt with Morgoth and his lies, I don't think Sauron has a chance. He'd be tossed into the void alongside his former master quickly.
I loved the first part.
It literally left me in tears, but I think Elendil would never have become a mad tyrant.
I think the Faithful would bring him back and they would lock the ring in a vault, until such a time as the Council of Elrond was held, with the Kingdoms in exile being founded under the Sons of Isildur and Anarion, as Colonies.
I doubt it since few men understood the power of the rings to begin with even in the third age
Well amazon would do that
but remember Isildur, no one could persuade him not to take the one ring as his trophy.
So glad you are back after the Show of unnumbered tears!
"Show of unnumbered tears" I am definitely stealing this
Season 2 is on it's way... Keep crying.
@@QCMP We will indeed keep offering our constructive criticism whenever the opportunity arises. If you want to call that crying that's your trouble. Have a nice day.
@@husky0098 my man you called it the show of unnumbered tears then called it constructive criticism this is why they don't pay attention to the people who actual have constructive criticism
@@Balboainc Facts!
I'll be honest, I laughed out loud as soon as I heard your version of Elendil taking the ring for himself. Out of all of those likely to take the ring, this person is the most unlikely given his wisdom and love for Aman. Nevertheless, this version was entertaining, thanks for working on it.
Even as wise as he was, I don't think he would've fully realized the corruption of the ring. He would have been ensnared by it as most other men. Even the strongest willed man would've fallen to the ring.
@@jlm990 Highly doubtful, and indeed, he would have attempted to find a way to dispose of it or send it to the Valar knowing its malice and ability to corrupt...his son on the other hand is a different story.
I think Elendil was wise enough to know not to keep the One Ring. But Isildur was less wise; Isildur did choose to keep the One Ring in Tolkein's storyline, even though Elrond advised him not to do so. So I would revise your "what if" storyline to become closer to what actually happened: Sauron kills Elendil, breaking the Narsil, and Isildur uses the shards of the Narsil to cut the One RIng off Sauron's hand, just like he did in the Tolkein's storyline. But in this storyline, Isuldur is in Numenor, and the Ring does not have the opportunity to betray Isildur to his death in Gladden Fields. Isildur falls victim to the corruption of the One Ring, and becomes the tyrant. The Ring would like to get rid of Isildur and return to its true master, but this is unlikely to happen as long as Isildur stays in Numenor. So Isildur's tyranny would be long and brutal, and even Sauron would fear to challenge Isildur's armies.
i also don't think Elendil would take the ring. Christopher Tolkien said in unfinished tales that Aragorn was more like to Elendil then any one of his line after him that includes Isuldur and i don't think Aragorn would've taken the ring either those two dudes were just of a different moral stock then most men even Númenoreans
For what I recall, in Tolkien's writings, Isildur never actually succumbed to the corruption of the one ring nor was he told by Elrond or any other to destroy it. He studied it but did not use it's power. The orcs's ambush in wish he lost his life actually came while he was journeying toward Imladris in order to seek counsel from the three elven ring bearers (Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan) having realized the evil nature of the ring and the influence it was trying to gain upon him. Had he reached his destination, he would have given the ring to them in complete trust of their wisdom.
Thank you for the amazing video Yoystan, I had asked you multiple times in streams for you to make a video on “What if Numenor Never Fell?”, it was one of the questions that I always was curious about.
One big hole in your story , when Saroun went as a prisoner to Numenor HE LEFT THE RING IN MORDOR . That is how the Ring survived Numenors downfall in the first place and how Saroun reformed so fast in the second age
This video left me feeling incredibly sad for all that was lost in the downfall. And after this the downfall seems like the lesser of all evils.
Finally! The long awaited palate cleanser after the ROP finale. Thank you sir
Now this has got to be the most interesting What if topic ever.
A good theory. 👍
We all wish such a great civilization could be aaved. That it seems doomed is a dire tale of caution for the realms of our world.
Thank you for the video guys!
I could say a lot of things about this speculative history, but the most important is the observation that, if a "redeemed" Numenor was indeed this dangerous, then it stands to reason why it was allowed to fall instead, and why more wasn't done to dissuade the Great Armament or the cult of Morgoth.
This is an important point, to my mind, since I've always thought that the Valar or the One could have done more to prevent this. If, for example, Valinor were taken out of the newly-rounded world at the outset, so that it wasn't physically possible for the Numenoreans to sail there in the first place, the story could have been very different. At the very least, it seems that Manwe could have simply sent that "west wind" that prevented the Numenoreans from landing.
On a side note, I'm not sure that Tar-Miriel would have been so quick to resume the throne, rather than abdicating in Elendil's or Amandil's favor. For her long (101 years long) and abusive marriage to Ar-Pharazon, who essentially raped and enslaved her, could have left her badly traumatized and possibly unable to assume her intended role. (Indeed, this trauma may have been why she didn't have enough presence of mind to flee to Meneltarma sooner, which might have saved her life.)
And so we have a potential subject for another video: "What if Tar-Miriel had lived?" What if she had survived the Downfall somehow, perhaps by getting to Meneltarma before the Fall or stowing away with Elendil? How much difference could she have made?
If only the Faithful could have had a conclave like the Council of Elrond, which included Elves from Aman, to decide the fate of the Ring. After what had happened with the near downfall of their island, they might well have had the wisdom to resign the Ring to the Elves, with the stipulation that it be conveyed to Aule, who would then unmake it in his great forge, which surely would have been more than hot enough to accomplish this. Sauron, too, they would send in chains in his diminished form, for the long-delayed judgment of Manwe, so that the rebel Maia who had wrought such destruction in Arda could be forever removed from it, and sealed within the Void to keep his onetime Master company.
After the destruction of Númenor, the Valar no longer be directly involved in Middle Earths affairs. Maybe if Númenor wasn't destroyed, this might have happened.
I absolutely love your What if's videos been following them since years and you keep uploading. Great storytelling.
What a great topic, thank you for the video!
I believe by the time Sauron was there, it was too late for Númenor to be saved. The only was for her to be redeemed, was lost with Tar-Palantír. What he could have done instead, is pass his scepter to his daughter before he was made feeble by old age, just like the Kings and Queens of old, then spend his last good decade or two gathering support for Tar-Míriel and help her consolidate power. She would have needed an influential Faithful husband so she doesn't have to face the King's Men alone.
My first thought for Míriel's husband was Amandil, since they were about the same age, and although they are distantly related (Míriel's grandmother was granddaughter of the 14th Lord of Andúnie, Amandil's grandfather was a grandson of the 14th Lord of Andúnie, according to the family tree I found on Tolkien Gateway), I think that's enough of a generation gap to not have problems.
Míriel and Amandil could have also used the Palatíri (which we know were in the possession of the Lords of Andúnie) to help convince influential people about the looming Downfall, by showing them the possible future if they keep up with their folly.
It is still possible that civil war would have broken out in Númenor, just as it did during Tar-Palantír's final years as king, but Míriel and Amandil, helped by a still lucid Palantír could have done much to lessen the damage or even avoid the worst with skillful diplomacy.
Here's a question- if anyone went to the top of the Meneltarma could they have survived the great waves?
I ask this because in the Silmarillion it says that in Miriel's final moments she was going towards the Meneltarma and then gave a great cry as the waves struck her. But how did any of the Faithful on the ships see this or hear this? The Faithful on those ships were being tossed around due to the violent ocean- so they wouldn't be looking at Numenor or keeping an eye out for anything else but themselves. How do they know what happened to Miriel?
In lore it says that Elendil wrote the Akallabeth (I believe), so did Elendil write about Miriel's fate by taking artistic license with the tale? Or were there actual survivors from Numenor who got to the Meneltarma and were spared the wrath of Eru Illuvatar; survivors who caught a glimpse of Miriel, and she being the most beautiful woman on Numenor would not be hard to miss.
The Meneltarma is a holy mountain, so you would think that would be spared- sort of like Noah's flood- all those that joined Noah were spared the flood. Perhaps the survivors were rescued either by the Faithful or by the Elves?
All of Numenor sank, not even the Holy Mountain was spared. Only those of the Faithful on the 9 Ships that were anchored off of Numenor were saved from the Downfall of Numenor.
If fan fiction we must have why not such as this? Good job.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. Even without the Ring, I think the Numenoreans, having been exposed to the King's Men's hubris and the allure of raw, violent power, would have inevitably fallen back into ways of vice. The ephemeral repentance of Tar-Palantir shows that repentance is easier said than done. Virtue is easy to talk about, but difficult to put into practice, since it's seldom the path of least resistance. Stuff like this is why I love the Akallabeth, and Tolkien's works in general, so much.
Love these what ifs. Could you do one where Elendil doesn't turn evil at the end?
Awesome theory vid Yoystan sure feels better than the rings of power stuff
Yes! I have been waiting for this video for months!
I would say that its possible that Sauron would have saw the inevitable overwhelming force coming to his dark temple and would have seceded his ring to his would be killer knowing that he would be slain, that or he plotted his own demise to insure his ring survived and would accomplish his plan in a less direct way.
Great video! Another What if video you should is what if Isildur survived with the ring?
Tbh, it's pretty much what this video described. Isildur would have taken the One Ring and because he was among those who had enough Strength in them, he would have become the New Lord Ring, a 3rd Dark Lord would have appeared. Arguably with how things were at the closing of the Second Age and start of the Third Age, the Dunedain were the most powerful single force in Middle-earth right before Isildur died at the Gladden Fields. The Elves were now scattered, no longer was there a High King of the Elves and the other Elvish Kingdoms had taken blows to their Leaderships & Peoples.
Isildur if he hadn't died and made his way to Arnor would be in command of 2 Realms and the most united peoples especially with the 6 Palantir (7th only looked westward) as Isildur could easily see & communicate with those in his lands. With these, more than likely, Isildur as he was corrupted more could just use the Palantir as moving Communication points, likely focusing on conquering South of Gondor, then take over Mordor, push into Rhun. Then Isildur would turn his eyes to the West and attack the Elves, Dwarves and other Free Peoples who would have been in a similar situation in the Late Third Age: Islands in the sea and being attacked from all sides.
It would be hard to see how any could overcome the Dunedain who would still be in a very Numenor-like state for their Prowess and Skills even with the loss of many Dunedain during the War of the Last Alliance. Maybe Arnor would have been destroyed if for example the Free Peoples led by the Elves realized that Isildur was becoming and had become a New Dark Lord. Arnor was weaker and more spread out for what few forces would have remained and an attack from multiple directions likely could have seen Arnor destroyed within a few years. If the Mountain Passes, Gap of Rohan, etc were secured than Eriador could have been a gathering point to build up the Free Peoples into a fighting force. But all this is very "What If" and all that.
Elrond pretty much stated that Isildur's death averted worse that could have befallen him had he lived & kept the Ring as he clearly intended and held the One Ring for over 2 Years.
I wonder what You would have created with A BILLION DOLLARS. Decades of love for this content roots out the heart versus the corporate heartlessness. I appreciate the heart you put through in your narrations. Better than a billion bucks these days!!!
Didnt Sauron leave the ring in Mordor when he went to Numenor? It was there when he fled back there after Numenor was destroyed
If there one thing I know it’s that attacking the creator of your universe to “wrest immortality” away from him/her is not the plan I’d go with.
Although I broadly agree with this interpretation especially as it relates to the misgivings of Gandalf, Galadriel, and the fall of Boromir, I think there is one point which stands against it. Namely that in a very similar situation, rather than accompany Isildur and corrupt the kingdom of Arnor, the Ring betrayed and fled him.
I think that the Ring would do its best to return to its master, no matter the means, rather than corrupt and use a mighty opponent.
I would rather ask what if when they sailed to Valinor to make war on the Valar if instead of rolling back the server like in a videogame, Eru had allowed Numenor to make war on the Valar. It would have been awsome, and fun to imagine because at anytime you can just, you know, do what Tolkien said Eru did and roll back the server. So there is a lot there, that you can have fun with, that doesn't break the lore.
The disposition of Numenor itself is one that will always lead to its own destruction. That they should have been as greatly temperate, and wise as they were warriors and soldiers is the whole point. That's what leads to everything in the third age. Gandalf, Frodo, Aragorn. If, you know, Elendil had just convinced everybody to not literally worship the devil and Numenor just became peace loving and good again then it's a lot less interesting.
The Second Age is Tolkien at his most WWE and Numenor is the epic heel turn we always knew was coming for humanity because slaying the dragons isn't the final victory it's conquering the brutality thats within ourselves.
I don't even think Sauron took the one ring with him when he went to surrender to Ar-Pharazon. Now the text may prove me wrong, but I always assumed that he remained a cautious and cunning being, and so he would have planned for the eventuality of dying at the hands of the Númenoreans. I don't think I'll end ale would have been so foolish as to take a weregild from the guy that corrupted the majority of Númenor.
For the first time I actually find issue with this fan theory, or at least, have questions against it.
Would Eru not still sink Numenor for it's corruption by the ring and domination over middle Earth? If not, would the armies of the west still come to the aid of middle earth as in your video on if Sauron recovered the One?
Numenor dominating middle earth through obtaining the One doesn't strike me as within theoretical reach of Middle Earth lore. There are too many other theories by yourself and cases in canon where Eru or the Valar get involved before such instances can occur.
"This is a restricted area. You are tresspassing." that popped into my head and all I can hear in my head is that said through a megaphone.
One of my favorite What ifs? Thanks Yoystan. If only Numenor could have been saved. It was a gift from Eru and the Valar, but the Numenorians just squandered it because they had little faith in Eru plans for his Second born Children.
Damn, this was one superb "What if?"
I’ve seen plenty of “What if?” videos for many different stories. Surprisingly rare for Tolkien’s Legendarium though. You’re serving a vastly underserved niche.
This is kind of a long shot and I don't know if this will really pan out but for another what if video idea here's one. "What if Bilbo killed Gollum"? With Gollum dead then Sauron would never know the location of the one ring and the one who carries it thus delaying his search for it even more. No nazgul would be sent to the shire and Frodo would never be stabbed by the morgul blade. Though Frodo and Sam would take even longer to reach to Mordor without a proper guide and they will face even greater challenges wether it's the dead marshes, or the black gate. I'm not sure if minas morgul or shelob would be possible because with Gollum dead then they wouldn't know about it. I wonder if Gandlaf would return to help the hobbits. Like I said this may not pan out.
This was a great "What if" video @Men of the West, I hope we see more. If you are open to it, I have two what if you might like. The first is "What if Gandalf never came back from death, but Glorfindel take his place and is given Narya. The second is one I have suggested before, what if The Three Elven Rings never lost their powers after The One Ring is destroyed. Have a nice day and can't wait for more videos.
Nice video, Yoystan! Love your "what if" videos. Keep them coming! I am looking forward to the upcoming book release The Fall of Numenor on November 15!
This is soooooo much better than the Rings of Power reviews, which were far too improvised, negative, and unsatisfying! It's good to have you back.
Great video. I thought the duel between Sauron and Elendil was awesome.
But I think Elendil might be able to resist it for a while. Like at least use it as a weapon to tear down Sauron's forces first, thinking about using the ring to destroy Sauron's forces first. And then when he goes to Mt Doom, h decides to keep it.
But it is said Sauron hated Aragorn or King Elessar because he resembled Elendil. Aragorn resisted the ring initialy. So I think Elendil would have resisted the ring long enough to throw it into the sea. But that can have its own fair share of consequences.
"It is in men that we must place our hope."
If only :/
There would have been such a civil war on that island to rival that of the kinslaying but if they became good again they would have shook the earth so much the One Ring itself would learn fear haha. Maybe the dominion of men would have come sooner?
The war of the last alliance would have been the war of the Greatest alliance.
Much would have been different
Very interesting "what if"!! I didn't see this one coming 👌
An interesting take, but it seems to presuppose that Elendil was more easily corruptable than Isildur (well, book Isildur, not the character assassination that was the film version). After all, Isildur was killed taking the ring to the elves to consult what to do with it as he realised it was out of his league. Why would Elendil be less wise, or less willing to consult with the elves than his son was?
I think the described events regarding the ring falling into the faithfuls hands would be impossible because Sauron never took the ring to Numenor as he planned on bringing about the fall of the island nation. It would have been lost with his physical form when Numenor was washed away i believe
Numenor would survive and thrive but Sauron with no way to directly corrupt the leadership would begin focusing his efforts on corrupting the mainland coastal settlements of Numenorians to develop their own numbers, industry and military capabilities. They would then eventually turn on the lesser men annexing land, enslaving their people and exterminating tribes that resisted. Eventually conflict with the Elves and dwarfs would see the Island of Numenor Ally with the other races to restore faithful ideology to its colonial kingdoms. In the fallout of this massive war would then see saplings of the white tree planted in Annuminas, Minas Ithil and Minas Anor as symbols that these territories still held faith with the west and that its loss was the mark that a region had fallen to darkness that the faithful would then march against to restore what was lost.
A better time to set this video would be during the reign of Tar-Palantir, who was one of The Faithful. However his younger brother was not and Tar-Palantir's nephew, who was not Faithful, took the throne and married Tar-Palantir's daughter even though it was against the law. If Tar-Palantir's daughter had succeeded him Numenor would have remained Faithful as she would make sure her children were raised as members of The Faithful.
I've had a what if that's been bugging me, so I'll share it here even though I fully expect it to not be touched upon since it would start in the Silmarillion. What if Ungoliant had successfully killed Morgoth?
Excellent theory once again. I think we can draw some enjoyment from RoP if we treat it as one What If interpretation of the story.
A theory video?! It's been awhile
I think as others have said love this “what if” but more likely isildur gets the ring and dies fighting in middle earth trying to make an empire!
OMG 😱
I was just thinking of theory like this
What if numenor remained mighty and fateful but not in contact with middle earth
And in the mean time Sauron has claimed one ring has the alliance of Smaug and Balrog can you please make a video like this and tell you theory?
Nice vid. I don' see Sauron having the ring in Númenor, it would have been lost (in the actual history) and I think Sauron's his fair form would have remained as it was his ethereal connection to his ring wrought of lust that dictated Sauron's form later. The ring being the thing that allowed Sauron to return to Middle Earth later. In this new history Sauron would be taken prisoner, and back to the Valar I suppose. Númenor would not be destroyed and the world not torn asunder, so no globe created, and maybe no hobbits appearing?
Aren't Sauron remove his ring and left him in Mordor when he was "captured" by Ar-Pharazon. So he event don't have ring at this point otherwise ring would be lost in Numenore fall. Cause he lost his physical form during the downfall and flee as a spirit back to the mordor.
I want to see something like what it Fëanor lived through the Silmarillion, like imagine how the conflict would’ve panned out differently.
I loved this and the *what if * concept of it keep it up 💯
Excellent!! I loved it!
Mae govannen Yoystan 👋
I have a request for a theory video: What if Huan had not died and remained in Middle Earth? Could he have had a huge impact?
Well imagine Arwen and Huan just showing up at the gates of Mordor during the War of the Ring. Sauron would probably get a heart attack and die (can Maiar even get heart attacks?).
Yo we need you to give us some high tier fan fic, I believe you would make some absolutely bangers
Fantastic video!
Very nice! One little tweak: Miriel was about the same age as Ar-Pharazon and his first cousin so I wouldn't expect her to live all that long after his death -- maybe an extra 50 years max for being female and faithful. So Elendil could even have taken up the Sceptre legitimately since Miriel had no heir and Amandil was out of the picture.
Nice job as always these are fun to watch. Although I would have preferred that Sauron escaped with his ring... I just don't think elendil would keep it. Isildur for sure. He did in original story. And numenor could have maybe lasted longer... Although I feel that the kings men would end up somehow messing something up . Maybe one of them could have gotten the ring.
But not taking anything from your version it was very good. This was a personal preference I mentioned.
Personally I don't think Elendil would have kept the ring. Keep in mind, it was out of grief for his father's and his brother's deaths that Isildor kept the ring.
If however, Elendil and Anarion had fallen in this timeline like the original, and Isildor had cut the ring from Sauron, I could see him keeping it and everything you described coming to pass.
I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure Sauron did not have the one ring during his time at numenor.
I think he made it after that, because when numenor sunk under the sea Sauron went down with it. Losing his physical form for a time. So if he had the ring with him he would have lost it then and wouldn’t have had it during the last Aliance which took place years later.
He did have it, it was made a long time before Ar-Pharazôn assailed him. I remember reading in some book and some passage that he "Fled back to Mordor, and took up once again his great Ring" etc.
He had it, it's how he seduced the Númenoreans to worship of Morgoth.
I think the elves would have stayed a while to help deal eith Sauron, wouldn't they?
Every single "what if" you make is a thousand times better than the Rings of Power
A very interesting what if scenario. Although I think that if Amandil did warn the Valar that it was indeed Saruon corrupting the men. Then I think if the Valar would've sent forces lead by Eonwe to arrest Sauron and bring him back to Valinor.
I think it more likely that Sauron would flee the island when discovered rather than attempt to fight all the hosts of Numenor by himself.
That direction surprised me.
The ring is so insidious, I get strong "I win again, Lews Therin" vibes from most of this series.
I see you're assuming Sauron took the ring to Numenor. There are some interesting debates about this on The Red Book and Tolkien Lore.
WRT Elendil, I believe he *may* have been powerful enough to stay Sauron's resurgence as a power if he were to have held the Ring for his own.
It would have been more effective if the returning faithful under Amandil coming from the undying lands had taken Eonwë with them to take Sauron captive. Thus making up for the error of leaving him in Middle Earth at the conclusion of the War of Wrath.
Would have made sense and also gotten the ring out of the question.
6:05 "STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, STRIKE WITHOUT MERCY, SIR!"
I have goosebumps all over!
I mean, just too good😮
Didnt Sauron leave the Ring in Middle Earth?
It was written somehwere that when he returned to Middle-Earth, he put on again his Ring.
Tolkien wrote in one of the letters that he thinks Sauron did have the Ring with him in Numenor and somehow bore it back to Middle-earth by the force of his spirit
Good "What if" but I'd like to think Elendil would be at least as resistant to the ring as Isildur and would have realized what was happening. So, the story then becomes how do the Free Peoples deal with the One Ring at a time when they have defeated Sauron but have no Istari for guidance and no idea that there are Hobbits that are resistance to the power of the One Ring?
I still wonder if Numenor was actually technologically advanced like it was hinted at in Tolkien's earlier works. I know it's against the whole fantasy theme but personally I think it's such an interesting idea
I recall there being mention of flying ships and steampunk-esque technology but what do you think their technology would be like?
From the very first time i saw this, it's struck me how you've set up a situation here that's remarkably similar to to "Star Wars."
What we have here is a cruel, militaristic empire that took over what was once a free and benign government, administrated with force by a great former hero corrupted by dark powers, who in turn is held on a leash by a sorcerous being who stays in the background. All of this happened as the result of what was once a great war to hold on to the very integrity of the old regime, which was corrupted into a power grab by the forces of evil. All that remains now is for some old, mystic being with a hidden past ("Help me, Olorin Kenobi: you're my only hope!") to appear silently and begin nurturing a sort of resistance to the old sorcerer's power, perhaps by recruiting people from forgotten corners of this empire, awaiting or watching over the heir of the puppet ruler somehow, and beginning a series of secretive, heroic quests.
This video started off as ''What if Numenor had remained faithful'' and then transitioned into ''eh they wouldn't have remained faithful for long anyway no matter what'', which really isn't true to the title. An actual ''What if Numenor had remained faithful'' video would require them to REMAIN faithful the whole way through the video, i.e. not have Elendil become corrupted!
I missed your what if videos.
What if it was Elrond in the end who dealt Sauron the final blow and took the ring? Would he have the power of will to destroy it then and there?
Nicely done
Keep up the great work Mellon! I believe that men were incapable of remaining faithful. Being faithful takes sacrifice and discipline. Men will always be jealous or corrupt. It's in our nature...The fact will remain, man sees something better than what they've got, they'll either take it by force or by cunning.
"Elendil! Elendil! For the West!!" "Ecthelion!"
Why would the Númenóreans not destroy the ring as Frodo did at the end of the third age? Even if we assume for the moment the ring was not destroyed but taken and claimed by Elendil, why wouldn't the faithful once more rise up against tyranny? I do not believe Númenór was always destined to fall.
Only one thing doesn’t make sense, didn’t Sauron leave his ring behind before being taken to middle earth? His plan was to get captured and bing down numenour but he knew he’d probably lose his form in the destruction which he did. If he had e ring on him when it fell and his body died at sea how did his spirit get the ring back to Mordor? I don’t think h took the ring as he knew he could corrupt them with his words alone, but could he take the ring of? When it’s cut of his finger it destroys his form and he loses a great deal f power but could he take it of willingly and be apart from it? Doesn’t make sense if he had the ring and his body was destroyed in the fall how did he get the ring back to Mordor?
He didn't plan to die on Numenor; he didn't realize the Valar or Eru might destroy the island.
Does bear wondering, if Sauron had the One Ring on the Last Day of Numenor, how did he get it back?
This was an interesting theory. But what if the Faithful were able to resist the Ring. Maybe do a theory from that angle.
Well done well done well done!!
I would guess with Numenor remaining in the sea, Arnold may not exist as it does in the Third Age. Numenor is closer to the southern coast and splitting into two kingdom's may not happen in this scenario. A bigger elvish and dwarvish presence could exist in those lands.
WHAT IF the Balrog had taken the Ring in Moria?
Most of the people see the Balrog as a “beast”, as if it were some animal. But we know that this Balrog even tried to undo Gandalf’s spell that locked the backdoor of the Chamber of Mazarbul. So what if the Fellowship had fallen in Moria, and the Balrog had claimed the Ring for himself?
There is no way Erendil takes the ring for himself no way
wouldn't Elendil become a wraith? Or is that only an effect of the subordinate rings?
"Bad news fellas, Sauron conquered Middle Earth ... again"
"Are you kidding me? Is it his 16th attempt?"
"I believe it´s his 17th ... gather the ships?"
"Ye ... here we go again"
"We take him prisoner again or let him flee to the east afterwards?"
"... Shouldn´t we have learned by now?"
"Yes Jeff, we should have ... "
I never understand why people consider that Sauron had the One if the entire island, including Sauron himself, were submerged by Eru.
The Ring was altogether evil. Any mortal who kept it would eventually succumb to its power. Unless they destroyed it right away (which they wouldn't be able to do on Numenor), I think the same would happen even to the wise of Numenor. Perhaps they would have been wise enough to quickly take it to Mt Doom and destroy it. That's what I would hope for.
But to what extent?
Hadn't Sauron left his ring in Barad Dur before going to Numenor?
I get what you're going for, but I must ask, why would Elendil claim the ring? Given how much he despised Sauron and was friendly towards the elves, it seems out of character for him to claim it at all, or not be immediately warned of it's nature by Galadriel, Gil Galad, or any of the other elves who knew of Sauron's treachery with the rings.
Too bad I haven't read the silmarillion, I bet there's an interesting story in here if I knew what was going on. Im just here to support the channel with a view!
When I saw the title, I had hope of a timeline of renewed peace. But the power of the One Ring is insurmountable to Men...
Hey I thought of an interesting theory what if Sauron won the Battle of the last alliance
Or what if frodo became a ring wraith
The story of Numenor is the story parallel to the Forbidden Fruit in the Garden of Eden.
The island of Numenor was always barely out of reach to Valinor, and Eru Iluvatar knew this since day 1. Eventually, whether it took a thousand or a million years, Men would grow greedy and reach for it, it was always a matter of time.