12V RV Fridge Power Consumption - An Honest Discussion
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2022
- Two Bears Trekking is a travel channel with reviews and information about Camping, Locations, Technology and Adventures. Join us as we Trek around the US.
In this Two Bears Trekking “Randy’s Rant” video he rants about the true power consumption of RV 12 volt fridges.
Links:
Running time of a 12 volt fridge link:
www.renewablewise.com/how-lon...
Power consumption of a 12 volt fridge link:
nowpowertexas.com/how-much-el...
Solar panel size for charging 100 watt batteries link:
footprinthero.com/what-size-s...
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I mostly boondock and I have a 12v fridge. I can charge my 200AH battery in a couple of hours using a small generator, and that is enough charge to keep the fridge going for two or three days.
But that isn’t exactly efficient or cost effective.
@@twobearstrekking Compared to the fuel cost of pulling my camper across the country, it's cheap.
I've been looking into something like this. How is yours set up? I'm thinking about getting a battery box with a deep cycle. I'll maybe keep it charged by getting one of those solar trickle chargers. I'm going as simple asi can because it will be for my company truck that I dnt own.
I have a truck camper with 500 amp hour, 1000watt solar . ( I have to watch weights, lithium is so much lighter and smaller) camping in the heat my propane fridge cant keep cold. But trade off is no loud generator, and fuel ( weight) . Lithium batteries are super safe ( not the same as phone lithium batteries ( more danger). 12v fridges have much larger interior and lighter. Not worried about cloudy days ( can run truck dc to dc charger as power supply if need be) . Solar is permanent to roof , no dragging. Trade off for batteries is winter camping the batteries have to keep warmish, so basement is heated as well. On the fence for swapping fridges.😂
I have a 2020 Jayco 34RSBS. It's in storage 90% of the time. Gas Absorption fridge stopped working after 1.5 years. Tubes stopped up according to the Tech. Replaced on extended warranty. New G/A fridge stopped working after 6 months. Different Tech , same diagnosis. I'm done with Gas Absorption junk. I have 300AH and 400 Watts. Wish me luck.
You don’t have a clue. 12 volt refrigerators are awesome. They keep things much colder. If you buy a newer rv there is plenty of lithium batteries and solar. Randy must have an OLD rv.
Was gonna say with enough solar it shouldn't be a problem.
Just got a brand new keystone. It came with one small battery and 220w solar. I started my fridge about 5pm to get things cold before we left the following day. Its a 10 cu ft. fridge. By morning battery was down to 65% after running all night in hot weather. On a cloudy day my battery was back up to 100% within a few hours in 100 degree weather. Fridge has an off grid setting for running on solar
One thing people ignore is that you can't use 100 amps of a 100 amp battery. The more you use the more the voltage drops. Many devices like a fridge will give up at lets say 11 volts and you're done. Inverters will not run anymore and so on. I have a 4.5cf 110 volt Magic Chef that I paid $100 for 6 years ago. It uses 11DC amp when running. Very quiet. I bought it as a joke thinking it wouldn't last. It still runs perfect. It has more then enough room for me. It also brings back memories for me helping my mom defrost the fridge with a pot of hot water and a butter knife.
I have a 16'x7' cargo trailer that I converted to a camper. $30,000 later and it was done. I did it myself. I'm a wood worker so went to town on the inside. Yellow birch is real expensive! I have 1,200 watts of solar and a 3,100 watt Champion inverter. I run it every day from 4-7. I have 4 100 amp lithium batteries and they take a LONG LONG LONG time to charge even when only drained 80%. Solar is nice during the day but doesn't cut it for Lithium. They require 50 amps at 14.5 volts non stop which solar does not provide. I have a special Lithium charger. Solar charge controllers will ALL ramp down thinking you're charged. WRONG.
All you arm chair wanna be engineers can do all the math you want. I'm an engineer and living it real time. You may think you're going to get 100 amps out of your 1,200 watts of solar. Ya, fat chance. I'm retired but still analyze everything and have the meters and tools. You may get 100 amps if it's the Sumner Solstice in the Sahara desert sitting on perfect level ground between the hours of 12 noon and 12:05. That's it. It's down hill from there. The most I've seen in the dead of summer is 55amps on my 1,200 watts. Can you run a 10,000btu AC off your inverter with that? Yes, for maybe 1/2 an hour. Right off the bat my 400 ah batteries drop from fully charged to 11.8 and it's downhill from there. My batteries are new. Do all the math you want but that's the real truth. My AC only runs off my generator.
I'll be in Quartzsite for the winter,. During the day my solar gives me ALL the power I need. My MPPT controller ramps up and down as needed. For many hours it's not putting out anything. Like I said, it's not because my Lithium batteries are fully charged. It's because real Lithium charge controllers are not out there. They say they are but their not. They ALL ramp down right away. If it's not putting out 14.5v at 50amps it's not giving what the batteries want. It's written right on the side of every battery!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14.5v at 50amps non stop!!!
There's a ton of people out there with 200watts of solar making videos that their new Lithium batteries are charged in 3.5 minutes. Idiots. People are listening to them. Then if you correct them they hide your comment. How dare you say I'm wrong. I have a UA-cam channel with 132 subscribers. You must respect my authorataa. It's not too soon after that their sitting in the dark making excuses.
I run a heavy hotel load. 110 everything. 3 kitchen lights that are very bright. TV. Desktop computer with 2 21" monitors. Fridge. Real Sony stereo, the home model. That 55 amps the solar puts out does not mean it will charge a 100amp lithium battery in 2 hours. That's complete BS!!! Disconnect the solar after 2 hours, wait 1/2 an hour and see what happens. Lithium needs a LONG LONG LONG equalization time. I've gone over to 2 peoples RV with some equipment and showed them. They didn't like what I showed them and their response was, well, it works for me and they go back with a new video spewing the same wrong crap but go over their rig a day later and their sitting in the dark. Every day that's a little overcast they drop another .2 volts and so on. So much for their 8 giggawatts of power.
Yes, you can cycle a Lithium battery 2,000 times down to 0.0 but that's worth nothing. Your inverter and everything else is going to shut down well before that. 10.5 volts in a 12v system is good for nothing. Your fridge shuts off when your inverter shuts off and everything else. Most all electronics today can take 15volts but not 10.5. They all go through a voltage regulator and most can take 30volts and step down to 12. Not like the old days. Most will allow you to swap the + and - and make the adjustment.
I've seen countless people plug in their $2.99 USB voltage display and declare their batteries charged in 5 minutes!!!!! WTF? If you take a battery that's 0.0 volts dead and hook a battery charger to it, it will read 13.5 volts in 2 seconds. That USB display is NOT showing the battery voltage, it's showing the charge volts coming in. Same with solar!!! You need a shunt to measure true state of a battery. Pure and simple.......A SHUNT.....They are expensive. I have a Xantrex 3,000 inverter. It has a built in shunt. I paid $2,000 for it but I can see the true state of my batteries any time.
I could go on and on and on about these people putting out one BS video after another. GEEZUS H
Thank you for your extensive comment. All great information. I don’t think I say it in the video, but one of my assumptions is that the voltage cuts out at 20% for a lead acid based battery. One of the supposed advantages of lithium is that it will hold the voltage at a usable level longer - perhaps. One of the pitfalls of using a basic reader is that it provides false information. For example, if you are wired in series, not all batteries may hold the same charge and your charger may stop prematurely. You’re also held to the voltage of your weakest battery. Hopefully, the honest and straightforward nature of these types of videos will at least help some people to avoid costly mistakes and disappointments. The misconception is that solar and lithium are always the answer, but reality is something very different. Thank you again for your comment!
-Randy
@@twobearstrekking Yes, you are correct. Series or Parallel you may have the same problem. The batteries need to be balanced with Lithium. They need to be drained down to 0.0 then charged for 24 hours on a real Lithium charger one by one. If you don't do this one battery may think it's charged and fake out the rest. There's a computer in each battery called a BMS. That will not allow more charge to come in because it was never balanced. Being balanced is not a real big deal. You still need a generator and a real Lithium charger to truly charge your batteries. For those interested, below is a real Lithium charger. It does require shore power or a generator. Solar cannot give 14.5 volts and 50 amps continuously as stated on the side of the battery......THIS CAN
Progressive Dynamics PD9160ALV 12 Volt 60 Amp Lithium Power Center
Keep in mind, a Lithium battery may say it can give you 2,000 cycles but after lets say 1,000 cycles it just doesn't have the umph anymore. Like your car battery on a -10f cold day. It starts but it was a chore. It's getting on and just doesn't pack the punch anymore. You'll find yourself running your generator more and more.
Oh, and there is no gas from a Lithium battery. There is no gas from a lead acid battery unless you have a dumb battery charger that overcharges your battery and boils the acid. That's when gas is produced. Your car battery from the 1970's would have blown up pretty quick without the voltage regulator. lol
You are on the money 100% we have friends who can’t keep there fridge powered or very cold with 12 volt refrigerators. I just purchase a 2018 Jayco 21qb in mint condition with a gas and electric refrigerator. It stays ice cold with little gas usage. I wouldn’t touch a unit with a 12 volt refrigerator. And that includes most rvs built after 2019. I’ve camped for decades with gas refrigerators with zero problems. You summed it up correctly sir. Sure you can run these on 12 volts if you have a bank of lithium battery’s and a big solar array but that’s another thing you need to maintain and mess with. Not to mention the added cost.
TomRyan -
Welcome to Two Bears and thank you for your commitment and insight. Randy become a smiling bobble head after reading it.
Keep On Trekking
- J
This was funny! My husband and I have been looking at new trailers with many having 12-volt refrigerators. In doing our research on them we find out you need to upgrade your solar panels, batteries and controller after spending thousands already on your RV. I've seen some set ups that look like a wiring nightmare! Then you get to stress out during your camping trip watching your power consumption the whole time. We live in the PNW (lots of tree cover) and have enjoyed our old school fridge for days without ever having to fire up our generator. And that's with light and heat. No thank you. We'll stick to the old tried and true 2 way. Good thing some manufactures are still offering this as an option. Thanks for the truth....finally!
Phyllis -
Welcome to Two Bears and thanks for the comment, Randy and I both laughed when we read it.
It’s just so true. If you are honest and look at the facts it’s just logical.
I’m from the PNW and it’s just not the tree but that about of over cast days. (Less solar available)
Upgrade when you have already spent so much for what you thought was a turn key rig - crazy.
Simply learn to manage your power and that doesn’t mean you have to worry and stress either.
So glad you enjoyed the honest video. We do our best.
Keep On Trekking
- Jonathan
I have had both types and right now I have a 12v that I chose for several reasons. Your argument about efficiency is void because your propane refrigerator not only uses 12v but also uses propane which is pretty expensive for full timers. So you use two forms of fuel and without one of them you are up a creek. Another reason we chose 12v is our triple fuel refrigerator was 210 lbs. The 12v is 115 lbs. Another reason is the absorption refrigerator took up more space yet only had 6 cu ft of space inside. The 12v I had about 12inches on top and 16 beside it for extra space and it is a 11 cu ft. Another reason is they are less complex and easier to find parts for. These are just a few and I'm sure there is more educated individuals out there that could debate this but I would highly encourage anyone who will be boondocking most of the time to look at the entirety of your needs and what it will actually take to accomplish the day to day. Not a opinion based on cherry picking. Happy trails yall
Read my comment it is @larzar8421. I am a Vietnam Vet and was exposed to Agent Orange causing severe diabetes. The executives that decided to only place 12v frigs in RVs should should pay for my insulin going bad. Gas/Elec frigs is the 5:05 only secure and feasible way to go !!!!!!!
If you think that’s bad wait until you want to store ice cream. Hope you like soft serve!
Yes me too, I just wanted the plain truth, I just bought a 1977 ford Econoline that I'm doing everything plus electrical. I has the frig, and heater that run on propane, I will be testing them out as I move forward on the renovation. Once it is all set and done I plan to use it on two week outings. Your review has been really helpful thank you.
Just installed a 10 cu 12v. fridge to replace my ridiculously inefficient 2 way propane electric unit. Couldn't even open the door without jumping 10-15 degrees, then taking almost 2 hrs to come back down to 38ish. Lets not talk about pre-cooling 24 hrs in advance.
On A/C, using the inverter, the thing used around 21amps @175 watts whenever it came on.
Talk about energy hog. I have 500 watts of roof panels charging 300Ah's of LFP cells (I built it myself. much cheaper). This new fridge is consuming only 4 amps on the middle setting. 36 degrees in fridge, -5 in freezer. initial start up was 13 amps. Ambient temp here in CA has been 100+. Putting it through battery test for a second night. Started out yesterday afternoon at 80%. Currently at 38% No charging yet. Have no problem letting it go through another night.
Time will tell, but so far, I'm happy. And happy to be rid of that small, inefficient Norcold POS
Thank you for sharing your setup. The 12V fridge is indeed more efficient at cooling at higher ambient temperatures and humid conditions. The multi source units that we traditionally think of for an RV use technology that is essentially equivalent to a cooling box. It has limitations. The presumption is that someone wouldn’t be boondocking long-term in 90-100 degree weather, because they would also need AC at that point, which is difficult to run sustainably on solar, leaving a generator the main option, which then negates the power consumption issues. What I find is that most people will go blindly into converting to or purchasing a unit with a 12V fridge, not realizing the power needs of the unit. You know exactly what is required, which allows you to make the informed choice. We have few if any complaints about the performance of our 25 year old Norcold 3 way fridge. However, if we spent more time in 90 plus heat, that might change - but honestly, I melt at 89. LOL
Keep on Trekking
-Randy
@@twobearstrekking Yup, I agree. I'll be in Quartzsite in a week and it will be hot hot hot. I will run my generator for many hours but only for the AC. The charging portion will be turned off completely. My solar will keep the batteries up and the generator will pretty much just idle running the AC until the compressor kicks on and that is just a momentary big draw. The generator ramps up then down real quick and back to idle.
Here's a little tip. If your generator won't run your AC on ECO mode and goes into overload when the AC compressor kicks in run it with the ECO mode off and full throttle for 1/2 hour to an hour then switch back to ECO mode. AC compressors are like a car motor on a cold day. Once they are warmed up they start easy.
I like your tongue and cheek evaluation of the practicality of 12v fridges. For most RVers with a minimal solar/battery system, it isn't worth the upgrade. However, we're FTers who love to boondock almost all the time, so have installed a serious solar/battery system. Right now, we live with an old, 8cf Dometic absorption fridge upgraded with an Amish cooling unit. It works great, even in the 90-degree range, (those Amish make good stuff) but consumes about $1 to $1.50 a day in propane depending on the ambient temp. Plus, there's the expense and time needed to go get the propane - which if you're 100 miles from nowhere at the time, is a major inconvenience, and no small expense with an 8mpg motorhome. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often.
Our motorhome has 2 solar/battery systems. We have a 48v, 16.3 kwh LiFePo-4 battery with 4,400 watts of solar on the roof to charge it. This provides 24/7 heating and cooling using our mini split heat pump, as well as all our other 110v AC electrical needs. We can also run a 14.5k rooftop A/C during the day while still being able to charge our batteries. But we plan on upgrading to a 12v fridge powered by a 7.1 kwh (560ah) LiFePo-4 12v battery charged by a 620-watt liftable array on the side of our MH.
Right now, we use very little of our 12v system's large capacity, so we have 12v power to spare. My question is, what is the most efficient and durable 12v, 10cf fridge available, and how long would it take to payback the upgrade? If we went with a $1,300, 10cf Recpro, we're looking at a 3 yr+ break even, assuming we use about $400/yr in propane. But if we choose an $1,100, 10.7cf Contoure that Camping World sells, we're only looking at a 2yr, 9mo. break even. The question is, not only which is more efficient, but which fridge will last longer?
I can't envision propane getting any cheaper in the next few years, so it looks like a DC fridge is in my future, but I don't want to discard my perfectly good propane fridge just yet. I'm planning on just waiting till it dies before I make the leap. What do you think?
Good topic.
Thank you, Randy! We just bought a 2022 E-Pro 19BH with a 12v "Magic Chef" 4.3 cubic refrigerator.
Wow, what a challenge we are having. You are soooo right - it's an energy hog.
Still trying to figure out why it won't shut off. Dealer has been "polite" but not really getting back to us with any good details. In fact, the manual wasn't included in the actual Forest River manual packet. Looking at Lithium batteries for a solution.....
Barbara, thank you for your comment. On the upside, when working properly, your 4.3 cu ft will draw less power than in my example. That should make your power problem a bit easier to resolve. Make sure that your setup is charging the battery from your vehicle alternator while you are driving. I definitely recommend having two batteries if you don’t already. Having lithium will protect the battery from potential damage if you need to draw it below 50%. Just beware that if you do upgrade to lithium, you need to have a charger that is compatible. Let us know how you make out.
-Randy
Everyone camps differently. Like a lot of things in the RV camping world (as in life), there isn’t just ONE way to do things. Some people are very budget conscious, others have deeper pockets, some try to be more environmentally friendly, others think differently.
Some people are full hook-up only campers, some are exclusive boondockers, and some are in between somewhere (50-50, 70-30, 30-70, etc)
If a person camps remotely (like I’m the desert) and doesn’t want to use a generator, then an absorption refrigerator (2 way or 3 way) makes complete sense.
Many fifth wheels and class As come with residential refrigerators, which take even more electricity than 12v models. When I am camping without hook-ups, I run my generator for about 1.5-2hrs in the mid-morning, get my 400Ah of lithium batteries topped off, run it again for an hour or so in the evening to re-top them off, and repeat.
12v refrigerators are more efficient than residential models, but they do require a not insignificant amount of electricity to run. Any RV owner should understand that going in.
There are pros and cons to each type (12v, residential, and gas/electric). Find an RV with the type that makes the most sense for how you use your RV.
Mustang -
Welcome to Two Bears -
You said it perfectly and concisely. That is exactly what RVers should do before they purchase sadly most probably don’t put that much thought into the fridge of your rig.
Keep On Trekking
R J
Couldn't have said it better myself. Bang on! I enjoy my 3-way fridge knowing it's power is covered no matter what! Happy camping! 😊
Matt -
Welcome to Two Bears and thanks for the comment.
The key is knowing you power and I add how to adjust to make it work for you and your camping style.
Keep On Trekking
- J
Hi i liv in malta and thers lots of sun..i have motor home with a 3 way fridge.i got a 250w panle and 2 100amp batterys..if i take the 12v feed from the fridge poot it to a continuous sorc with a swich wood it work..thanks in abvanc and gr8 videos.
Very interesting video and some very helpful comments, have just fitted a solar panel to our VW T5 camper and was looking to go lithium but have my doubts now. The solar seems to manage with the 12v fridge just fine at the moment (it’s summer here) but will probably not keep up with the power draw in the winter and there’s little solar to be had, more research needed !
Thank you very helpful I've been camping For about six years We're always at a campground that has electric So that wouldn't affect me With electric source I do have a solar panel To keep the battery charged In between camping
Eric -
Welcome to Two Bears and thanks for the comment. You understand your rig and camp appropriately. We feel that many like the “idea/dream” of boondocking but most rigs right off the lot are not equipped to function in that manor. You understand and camp in a campground that allows you access to an electric power source. Randy knew that we wanted a 12 volt fridge from the get go. We have found that with light occasional generator use because of our battery bank we can boondock off grid easily for a week and have gone almost two (We ran out of food before we lost food) We wanted to have a video that was honest because many of the videos we have seen didn’t seem to look at all the aspects, we just wanted to put it out there.
Keep On Trekking
- Jonathan
Your spill so validated my questionable thought. I am converting a 2014 van. My issue is a undemount tank is 600$, and unsucessful with facebook marketplace use find. My goal is to have a 400 battery bank to knock heat edge off during sleep time. Thanks. Have a blessed, joyful, peaceful day
Smaller 12v fridges are amazing and most will run you about 20-25ah a day. And if you are running some led 12v lights and aome charging ports for phones then a 100ah lithium battery will have you all set for a weekend dry camping. Then toss on a 200w solar panel and you are set. 30ah of power being used just.running your camper seems crazy. Are you camping or living in it, are you cooking on electric while watchint movies on your big screen tv? How are you using so much.
You are awesome!!!
This is exactly what I was looking for an honest review!!!!
our eagle came with 12 volt frig nothing but a headache -get into 90* weather and it won't stay below 40 turn it all thw way on cool and in the morning when weather cooler everything freezes
Do you know what frozen fresh veggies are like and ketchup
I don't think I'm alone in saying I had a great deal of difficulty designing my power system and calculating need based on pencil and paper calculations. I spent endless hours trying to do so before I hit the road. In the end, I just made my best guess for sizing my system and then doubled it. Once I was out living full time, I was then able to evaluate my guesses and miraculously decided I was satisfied with it.
In order to provide a practical bit of advice for others looking for guidance, I'll describe what I came up with and how it works in the real world. I am a one-person expedition traveling in a large SUV, not an RV.
My power needs:
The fridge is an Alpicool APLT60 63-quart refrigerator/freezer. It runs on 12-volt or 120-volt. No propane option. This capacity easily provides for storing 3 weeks of food, some frozen and some merely cooled. If it's a travel day, the fridge can be powered from my car's 12-volt system.
Apart from the fridge, my power needs are pretty simple. I keep my laptop charged, as well as my phone and a dedicated DVD player. There are a few flashlights, a 12-volt rechargeable fan, camera batteries, a weather band radio, a bluetooth speaker and my cell signal booster. Not a ton of power need. I live a simple life.
My 'batteries' are two EcoFlow River Max portable power stations. Each is rated at 576 Wh of capacity. I'm far more comfortable using two smaller units than one large one. Batteries and power stations sometimes fail and I'd rather have 50% capability than zero while waiting to replace a worn out unit.
I charge the EcoFlows with 200 watts of solid-panel solar on my rooftop. I also have a 300-watt Dokio folding solar panel which I carry in the car and only deploy when needed. I also have a small 1000-watt gas-powered sine wave inverter generator I picked up from Tractor Supply for about $100. If I have insufficient solar for any period of time, this generator will fully charge a near-empty EcoFlow in less than 1 1/4 hours. In my first 7 months, I've used it 4 times. If all else fails, I could take the EcoFlows somewhere (maybe a laundromat? A full power pack AND clean clothes!) that would allow me to plug into a wall outlet. With their fast-charging feature, each could be full in a bit more than an hour. Never had to do that and don't anticipate I ever will, but I like back-up plans.
How does this work in real life? Well, the fridge lives behind the passenger seat. I have it thoroughly wrapped in Thinsulate (foiled bubblewrap) except for the air vents. I also employ a varying combination of methods to keep the car interior as cool as possible. I have Thinsulate on all the windows. I have screens for all the side windows and moon roof. I sometimes mount a canvas tarp sunshade over the car. Adding it all together, one of the EcoFlows supplies all the power I need for 20-24 hours. I just switch them on and off as needed during the day while one or the other is charging. Of course, they can also take a charge while supplying power. By the end of the day, both units will be fully charged, one ready to coast through the night and the other turned off for the night.
A key aspect of all this is the value of redundancy. I actually have two almost entirely independent power systems, each of which can supply very nearly 24 hours of basic energy needs. If one of the solar panels fails (as the Dokio did at one time, needing to be replaced by Amazon), I can still produce solar energy with the second unit. If they both fail or I hit a cloudy spell, I have the generator for painless back-up. If one of the power stations malfunctions (which they will someday), I can make due with the redundant unit until a replacement arrives. The weak link is the fridge itself. If and when my Alpicool dies I will likely loose whatever food is in it and I'll need a new one. Is it too much to hope that this day will come two days before I go shopping rather than two days after? I know ... that's not how life works. 🙄
WOW! Sounds like a lot of work went into it. A 12V is the best option for a small footprint. I remember the days when I had a small DC cooling box for camping. We’ve come a long way...
- Randy
Ha ha ha, yup, when the fridge fails say goodbye to your food. Nice write up. Ya gotta have a generator!!!!!!!
@@chasein7019 Yup, the fridge is not covered by my "redundancy plan". If (actually, "when") that goes, I'll probably lose some food. Depending on how full it is, a quick run to a convenience store to get a bag of ice might save it. Maybe I'll get a large ice chest as back up? I could use it for storing other stuff while waiting for the inevitable. 😂 Worst case would be if it goes right after I portion out two weeks worth of meat, chicken, fish, etc. for the freezer. I can't eat that much fast enough!
@@jeepliving1 I'm laughing. My mom lived through the blitz and bombing in England and rationing. We live in the U.S. now. I was born here. When I was maybe 12 in 1967 our fridge went out. My mother never got over rationing and even saved the labels off cans as scrap paper for notes! lol Both my parents made real good money. My mom is cooking everything before it went bad like here, everyone eat 2 steaks and 4 whole fried chickens and you don't have to eat for a week. My father is drinking Shlitz laughing the whole time. He just went down town to Grants department store and said bring us a new fridge and we bought all new food while my mother is still freaking out. One thing I miss is frost free. Not for the freezer but for the refrigerator part. I notice a lot of moisture that never goes away.
My new furrion 10 cu ft draws 2.4 amp in 70 degree weather and 3.8 in 90 degree weather on off grid setting.
I used to dry camp a lot with my 2004 Sequoia pop up camper (no AC) for 12 years and I had battery management and a recharging routine using my EU2000I. I upgraded to a 2020 2108DS and try to find sites with power when camping due to having an AC, more and better equipment in the camper. There is no way I would ever consider having a 12 volt only refrigerator without the propane option! When camp trailer makers started coming out with the 12 volt compressor fridge, I was thinking back to my dry camping days - you would be out of juice to run your lights, water pump, radio, and propane heater blower fan (which seemed to drain the battery down pretty quickly on it's own if you needed the heat for a long time). I will not buy a camper with the 12 volt compressor refrigerator!
I been repairing R Vs for 45 years. I do not like 12 volt refrigerators for all the reasons you stated. But get use to it because that is where the industry has gone to. So, the best answer is a lot of solar power, 2 - 4 batteries and you're going to have to run your generator for an hour or two when dry camping. With that is, most of my customers camp with full hook-up. It is the off road riders that do most of the dry camping and their R Vs have gas/electric refrigerators.
Good honest video here. I'm one of those who got a new trailer with a 12v fridge (transcend 247, one battery so far). Talking to a few sales reps - I don't think there is any hiding from this long term, fight it all we will. That being said we just used it for a week straight with no power hook ups and did good with it, (we do this trip once a summer) and it was hot. We had a generator we could use for 4 hours total per day which seemed to keep the battery up to par along with the solar panel it has. I didn't even use the boondocking mode the fridge came with. Even with our last trailer (propane fridge) I still had to bring the generator to charge the battery for this trip we do. So, cant really say there was much a difference for us. Thinking id just prefer to have the propane fridge though, the 12 v fridge is louder but much larger inside. The propane was was much quieter but smaller inside. Pros and cons I guess. Without the solar or generator and only one battery id probably only get 24 hours of run time which is kind of terrible. For my family this will be okay for us as we mostly do power sites and when we don't I have the generator and solar panel. Ill still probably upgraded the battery and add another though to try see how far I can stretch it.
We have an imagine 2400BH, that we have 300AH of Lithium batteries onboard. The Furrion 10cuft Fridge seems to consume about 25amp hours per day. 44 amp hours is vastly overstated in my opinion, but could be a larger fridge? or older? We have a solar panel 200watts, but don't generally count on this because many sites are shaded. In a week long trip, we had to run the generator once to restore us back to 300AH and finished out the trip. I guess if you had no way to replenish your batteries it could be an issue? There are a ton of battery manufacturers out there making great Lithium batteries as well, so gone are the days where you have to pay 1000 dollars per 100AH Battleborn batteries which is where I think a lot of the biased calculations come from.
@@zenderxt what brand of lithium batteries are you running? is your 300AH on two or one battery? just curious what everyone is doing. I may go this route too.
@@ryanstykalo4162 We are using Li Time (Formerly Amperetime). We have 3 100AH batteries in parallel. But they have larger batteries 200AH, 300AH, 400AH, with higher rated BMS's. Guess it depends if you need to run an Inverter or not. We don't so the 100AMP BMS was sufficient for our needs. Hope that helps.
Your correct with your figures...
But a modern compressor camper fridge are low as 3 amps per hr....
Ive lived off grid in Europe for 14 years running a fridge lights pumps all sorts, using 300 watt solar... Still doing it today....
Became a thing 5 years ago….. ? My 1989 Winnebago has a 12v fridge !
Quiet? Our 12-volt is pretty quiet, nothing bothersome. I remember the propane frig, in a previous MH, hearing the propane kicking on and off and the burner noise. Also, the Propane requires voltage too, or it won't run. Certainly not a much, but still. The food is kept a a safer temp than the propane. And, every MH fire I have heard about, began at the propane frig. Most of the 12-volt frig installed, on today's MH all seem to come with a minimum 200 wt solar like ours does. Yes, we have also added a portable, fold-up, additional 200-watt solar, and these are not that heavy at all, and fold-up for easy storage if you need them. Time is the question -- how long a stay, without power? I am set for a week. In the beginning, it was for only 3 days then we either had to run the Gen, or find power, or go home. Most of our extended stays are at RV parks or places with power, and then, well, you cannot beat the 12-volt frig. When it comes to shore power 12 volt, vs propane there is no contest, the 12 volt wins hands down. If you have sufficient 12-volt power for extended boon-docking, then again the 12-volt is the big winner. No more mushy Ice cream either. Ah, but the extra expense for gaining that extra 12-volt power source, like solar, is an expense you do not have with Propane. And that is true, but if you have ever replaced a Propane fridge you know that it will cost you about $1000 more than the 12 volt -- so, I see this as a trade of in cost. But, the difference in price does allow for the addition of extra solar power source. Also, the price on solar has fallen dramatically, and the price and choices among LifePo4 Lithium batteries has also dropped dramatically. Plus, lithium batteries have all kinds of advantages over the lead acid or AGM batteries. Forget about the refrigerator -- a person would be wise to think about upgrading to the LifePo4 Lithium Phosphate batteries just for all of the benefits. Half the weight, twice the amps in actual use, and they can be mounted anywhere, that is anywhere. Completely sealed and they do not leak. Just my observation. I get it. If you boon-dock in the woods and do not want to use a generator and know that you will not run out of propane, then by all means, stay with propane. But, that is the only upside to staying with propane in this day and age. Yes, I am adding another battery, and I have replaced my 3 year old lead acid with Lithium ..it is crazy how light these batteries, compared to lead acid -- good by 60+ pound single 6 volt, times 2, or 120+ pound, for two Lithium batteries at 42 pounds. No brainer, 12 refrigerator or not.
Dan -
Thanks for taking the time to comment. When you make Randy do research and learn something new that’s a huge thing! You make many good points but the two that stand out and they tie into one another is that Boondocking and RV site with hookups have totally different realities. If you can make it from one RV site/hookups with only one day in between then your golden. It your serious about Boondocking then that is another thing. (Lots of solar and a dual fridge at minimum)
That’s for being a part of the discussion.
Keep On Trekking
R & J
I love my Norcold, I would never rely on a 12v, I am also old school on refrigerator s, even though I run 4x 100 amp lithium batteries and solar
People do say lithium and they buy them but it does not help at all. You take power out, you need to put it back in.
So, you are absolutely right. It's not a good choice for people that are not plugged in or rolling. It's just a fact.
I think propane is safe if it's installed and used properly. It should not be used on the road but then you don't need it if you have an inverter powered by the engine.
It would work for me as I don't boondock more than overnight.
We converted our norcold 1210 in our houseboat to a jc refrigeration 12v dc unit. We run 1200 watts of solar and runs flawless 24 7. We run 600 amp hour lipo
Do you have absorption or compression refrigerator?
Curtis -
Welcome to Two Bears and thanks for the question. We have a gas absorption fridge.
- Jonathan
Keep On Trekking
Is he talking about the Amazon small 12v fridges cos those run on 80watt solar panels
Ok, some good information. But... many 12v fridges only draw 2.5 to 3.5 amps. Then for those of us who only at a CG for a day or two it won't be an issue as our alternator will quickly recharge the battery. You can also get a apartment size refer for less than half the cost of an RV fridge. But will have to buy an inverter and they have some losses. Probably the biggest issue for us is when we're driving though 100 degree areas and our absorption refer can't keep up. And if you plug in, your energy cost will be covered, not your propane cost - though that will be small I admit.
I know some of your comments "chiropractor"... May have been for humor... since solar panels are pretty light. Others comments such as "expensive" can be true, however, paying for campgrounds for days, weeks, months and for some years, solar becomes quite a bargain and opens so many possibilities for camping without being packed in like a can of sardines the way many campgrounds are.
Why cant you run a generator a few times a day to charge up with your solar that way your battery is full come night and your fridge will last the night
Exactly!
If you stay at the RV all day and don't go anywhere that will work.
Unless you are in a NP that will only let you run a generator a couple of hours in AM and PM, except when there is somewhere you want to go and can't run it before you leave or after you get back.
Generators are not a 'cure all' solution.
@@garywilson2 I can't say that I have been to all the National Parks, but I have been to many of them. What I have seen is quiet hours (usually between 8pm or 10pm and 6am or 8am).
I think my greater point was with a combination of a robust lithium battery bank, and some amount of solar, your generator use can fill in those gaps to top off those batteries.
Generators aren't a cure all, but they are part of an overall power plan for RV'ing without electrical hookups.
@@camustang1966 What sticks in my brain is that two weeks at GSMNP where most of the sites (almost all) are shaded.
Last trip I was having to delay or return early several times to run the generator to recharge my batteries after using the furnace during the night (a regular power hog). My flooded batteries work well, but not for two weeks with only a partial recharge. I was fortunate to be in a generator use area.
Most of my camping is out in the sticks where folks don't care if you run a generator, but once in a while (like GSMNP) adaption and a little inconvenience are necessary.
I can easily go 10 days without my batteries draining with my propane refrigerator. I usually use a space heater (or lots of blankets) instead of the trailer furnace.
I'm not ready to turn loose of a few thousand dollars to replace the converter/charger and buy a robust lithium battery bank to prevent my food from spoiling and certainly don't want to go back to using an ice chest with trips to town for ice (30 min to a couple of hour trip depending on if a car show is in Pigeon Forge).
My response was to the suggestion "run a generator a few times a day" to supplement solar. I've thought about solar, but don't believe it is quite reasonable yet. And several places don't allow unlimited generator use.
My primary concern is that when I'm ready to retire my trailer I'll have to pay a couple of thousand more for a propane 'upgrade' to the new one's standard 12V plus additional solar panels to make it work.
On my last trip I turned off my 12 volt and use my very efficient ICECO on a small folding solar panel. I was blown away by how long my RV battery lasted. My 12 volt just became a small pantry.
Gail -
Thanks for the comment and jumping in on the conversation. I read the comment to Randy and we both are bobbing our heads like two of those hula dolls on the dashboard. Randy’s quote “Exactly!”
- Jonathan
Ps. Great use idea for the fridge
Keep On Trekking
It seems like you made it seem a lot worse situation than it really is using a 12-volt. Granted, it does use a considerable amount of power, but everyone should just do their homework on how much power each fridge uses and what matches your type of camping. Lots of people are running around with residential fridge's that use a lot more power than the 12-volts do and when I'm travelling and running my absorption fridge on the power bank it uses five times the power a 12-volt does. I think for my type of camping I'll be moving over to 12-volt for the efficiency compared to an absorption fridge but if you're just a weekender and don't want to invest in more power the absorption is probably a better choice.
Finally some common sense! 12 v fridge: the big ly ! They push them just so one can spend another 25000$ in solar and lithium ! I'll refuse to buy a new rig with a 12 v fridge. I have run my Dometic 6 cf on propane for the last 5 years on propane . 20 lbs of propane for 15 days. It's automatic and it has never failed.
Paul -
Welcome to Two Bears
Great Comment with stats to back it up.
Keep On Trekking
R and J
Somebody should create a two-way compressor based fridge. The compressor would have an electric motor an internal combustion small motor.
OK, so I'm thinking about buying an all electric RV with an 11 cubic foot fridge - no propane hookup. 4 100 Watt solar panels, and 4 lithium batteries. Am I stupid?
Spy -
Welcome to twobears. No one is stupid you just need to know what you are honestly using your RV for to really plan for your needs not just your wants.
1. Be honest with yourself - where will you be camping the most? Sunny or Cloudy locations? What time of year and where in the US or your country. Are you planning on Boondocking or using campgrounds with hookups including electric? Will have a generator for backup?
2. Retailers will sell you an electric RV but you need to know what and how your going to be using it. No matter how much solar and batteries you have you must stay on top of usage. You can’t camp like you are at your house. You might have great batteries but you still drain power fast if you don’t manage it.
3. There are those that have fully drank the solar kool-Aid but in the long run it is a huge commitment and the answer will always lean towards getting more solar and more batteries over power management.
Personally it’s your choice but we have two non lithium batteries, no solar and a gas powered generator but only turn it on maybe once every 4 - 5 days for maybe 30-45 mins. We believe that propane for cooking and fridge works the best for us with most everything electric being very low draw.
No one is stupid just be honest with yourself and accept the limitations or restrictions to your choices
Keep On Trekking
- Jonathan
And no one shows what lithium minning actually does to the land or the fact that most lithium batteries are not recycled because it is not cost effective so batteries and cars just go to ground. And dont forget , you cannot put out a lithium fire.
Having used 3 way fridges for 40 years I love them. But I’m now running 12 volt and can say your wrong. A thousand percent wrong. And being a dick about it. Lol
O yes my fridge is Electrolux rm2291.
You are 100% correct about 12 volt fridges. If you don't plan on being plugged into Shore power 100%, don't even get one. It is absolutely laughable to see new RVs with a 50 watt solar panel on them, and a 12 volt fridge in them. I will admit the salesman can sell the RV like that. Just get a propane fridge use the solar panel to charge your phone.
We met a couple at one of our Harvest Host stays, which is when I began realizing that it a real issue. Their brand new TT came with a 12V fridge, one lead acid battery and no solar. They, like many unsuspecting buyers found out the hard way. I try to educate folks whenever possible so that they know exactly what to expect. I continually see comments regarding a lack of power and ultimately one of the major issues is that they have a 12V fridge that consumes way more power than they expected.
-Randy
12 Volt fridges in a camper is nothing new I had a late 60s camper that had a 12 Volt fridge in it from the factory LOL
@@4Ever4Given777 AC, DC and LP had a compressor
Figure 80ah a day minimum.
Yes there are pros and cons. Just don’t exaggerate them. I like having a 12v fridge. It works well for my situations, I never dry camp more then 24 hours. I do not like that the frig is a bit noisy. It’s nowhere as noisy as the furnace which wakes my at night
Thanks for the video!
Thank, ciunt ne out on the 12v period
It’s loud
Who sell the propane gas
We have found that Tractor Supply (they have an app) is the best place to find propane consistently.
KOT
- J
Who only has 100 amp hours?
HK -
Welcome to 2 bears. We agree with you wholeheartedly. Glad you heard our point of RV dealerships sending new owners out unprepared to really survive outside an RV park/Resort.
Keep On Trekking
- Jonathan
You are way off base. My trailer came with a 165w panel and furrion fridge. All you need is enough battery to make it through the night which has never been a problem. If I run the nonsense too much after sundown I will run a generator for a half hour to make the the batteries are up before bed. When I added Starlink to the mix I am using more than I am producing. I am adding another panel today.
The12 v fridge is deeper due to the lack of mechanical crap in the rear.
It is free to operate.
It cools on startup in 2 to 3 hours.
It is a huge upgrade.
Period.
This man is very sassy about his refrigeration 😳
You are definitely living in the past. Boondocking with propane is like heating your house with gas. It simply isn't as cheap or user friendly as electricity.
Well, if you're a caveman and haven't upgraded to Lithium yet, then a 12v fridge probably isn't for you. But when you have over 1100ah available, the draw you're talking about is inconsequential.
The Nova Kool RFU 6800 consumes 5.2A @12V = 60W, that's a light bulb. (OK, an incandescent bulb.) You really need solar and at least 200 Ah of LiFePO4 batteries to use a 12V fridge, but it replenishes with just sunshine. When we run our absorption refrigerator on propane, it runs our propane tank down FAST. Of course our propane tank is small, maybe 15 gallons.
Isn't the Nova Kool RFU 6800 a pretty small fridge?
@@bigearn8782 It's the biggest that will fit in my 25' motorhome, and 1.5 cu ft bigger than the Dometic absorption fridge I currently have. If you have a 45' with a residential size fridge, you need more than 100 Ah of battery and solar anyway.
I have 600 AHr AGM, and about to add an additional 600 AHr, with one 400W solar and adding an additional 400W solar panel. So, you pretty much sold me on converting my propane fridge to 12V.
The guy is telling the absolute truth. No more bullshiting with green (bogass) power...
you cant run your fridge how you going to run the ac LOLOL. If great time of year ac not needed might used fridge every other day and freezer freeze a bunch of ice or ice block have a cooler to transfer lol might work for a while
CLG -
Welcome to Two Bears and thanks for the enjoyable comment Randy and I both LOL.
Smart Ice idea, maybe fill a hot water bottle with water, freeze it, an put it on your head and enjoy a personal ac adventure.
- Jonathan
Keep On Trekking
Your calculations are totally off and by much. 44Ah + 6Ah = 50Ah per day, if you have 200Ah then its 4 days of use without charging. You have no idea what are you talking about. Please do correct calculations and use units correctly.
You might want to watch the video again. You can’t draw non Lithium batteries below 50% without reducing lifespan. Even lithium should not be drawn to zero. I know I talk fast in the video, but my math and assumptions are not wrong.
Thank you for your input.
Keep on Trekking
Different strokes for different folks. After 2 years, I love my 12v fridge. A lot more space that one that runs on propane, at least the ones I’ve seen.
This guy’s attitude is a bit smug on the topic but to each their own I guess.
I don't boondock. I go to a campground and plug in to ac power. My converter/charger keeps batteries charged and my 12 volt refridge works great. Everything is geared to boondocking; why not give the advantages when plugged in to 120 v ac power.
They don’t make sense using 20 year old tech… your batteries must suck.😊 🪫