It's refreshing to hear articulate people debate something without being shouted down or jeered. A lot has changed in only 55 years, generally people were better educated and respectful in my opinion.
@stemartin6671… “We have highly educated kids”? The fact is, kids of the US, have the lowest ratings worldwide. This is not my opinion, this is fact, based on recent surveys and statistics. Every country around the world is turning out better educated children than we are. Just last year, one particular school had to cancel its graduation ceremonies because not even ONE student could pass a random state testing. Parents (believe it or not) demanded their kids still be allowed to graduate! We have masses of 16 & 18 year olds who are technically illiterate, yet they receive a diploma. All anyone has to do to see the truth of this, is so 10 minutes worth of research! Or, walk up to anyone under 20 years of age and ask them to read & write something for you that’s above a 3rd grade vocabulary, and also including proper punctuation, and you will be sadly disappointed. There is of course a small minority of bright kids. But they’re the few exceptions. Statistics show us general trends.
You’re correct. People in general were better educated, and people in general were most certainly better mannered. We live in a society today that teaches kids that conforming to rules is bad. We teach kids that whatever THEY think & feel about something is perfectly fine, and that they can act out and say anything they want in public, and that’s just fine. There is no longer any limits or guidelines young people adhere to, to be a proper member of society. It’s more or less a free for all. So Yes! Gone are the days of rational, intellectual debate. When someone has an opposing view these days, the conversation immediately turns into a screaming match, even with compliments of name calling like children do. Gone are the standards of respecting others. It’s all about “me me me” nowadays. Society has gone so far as to eliminating all debate, by making certain words off limits for all to say. They’ve turned words into racism, instead of true acts of racism. They’ve turned words into meaning “hate speech”, even when used to try to discuss something intellectually. Just look around, it couldn’t be more obvious! Even our elected officials now resort to name calling and out right slander when they disagree on a topic. No one respects ANYTHING anymore. Not even the office of President. The world has truly gone crazy. Right is wrong, black is white, and everything is turned upside down.
*These words are not mine.* These are the words the Ruach HaKodesh (YAHUAH's Set-Apart Spirit) uttered through me when I prayed to YAHUAH; asking him what *he wants* me to say, knowing the truth. To they with ears: "Know that YAHUAH is the name of the Most High and YAHUsha is the name of The Son. Come out of her, my people, who have fallen to the deceit of Constantine. Who know not my name and say they love me. I have made myself known. I have heard you and I am here. There are many who are yours to be saved. I am he who knows all that you are. Come to me, here are they who are mine. Make haste to come, here are we. Give in to them who speak of me, they are yours. I am here for you. Know that all is for them, here are we. Give not to them that are against me. I am he who sees all you do. Come to me out of her, all are here for me. Do what I say. Out of her, come. All are here." Exodus 3:13-15 KJV 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. John 5:43 KJV 43 *I am come in my Father's name,* and ye receive me not: *if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.* 2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and *touch not the unclean thing;* *and I will receive you.* Isaiah 52:6-7 KJV 6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! 2 Corinthians 6:1-2 KJV 1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) Romans 10:1-3 KJV 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:13-17 KJV 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 *How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?* 15 *And how shall they preach, except they be sent?* as it is written, *How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!* 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. *For Esaias saith,* Lord, *who hath believed our report?* 17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.* Nahum 1:7 KJV 7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and *he knoweth them that trust in him.* Hebrews 3:15 KJV 15 *While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.* Isaiah 52:11 KJV 11 *Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing;* go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. John 14:15 KJV 15 *If ye love me, keep my commandments.*
Sexual deviancy isn't exclusive to the religious. It's a part of our human story. What is important to know is that a lot of sexual immorality against children happens at the hands of married people. In fact more married individuals commit more sexual sins against youth than married men. Allowing priests to marry may reduce the problem but it won't eliminate the problem.
It is so interesting to me how speech patterns change throughout the decades. There are so many aspects as to why this is. I guess what I am getting at is the vocal pitch and intellectual manner of which is spoken is very mature and polite as opposed to today's conversationalist.
Could you imagine this now…. ? No way Josè.😛 The good ole days. The government wants us all uptight.. arguing..and twenty other reasons not to look at and investigate what politicians are truly up to and the truth hidden along with the corruption. Those days are long gone and it’s sad.
This video is just sad. The breakdown comes as a result of self centeredness and not Christ centeredness. Pray for the souls of those priests who led people astray.
When I was a child in Oakland in 1952, I attended St. Joseph's,Catholic School. A young priest had just arrived and the children loved him. His name was Father John Duryea. In 1962, when I was about 15 or 16, I was living in Santa Clara, CA. . I ran into Father Duryea at a Catholic hospital in Santa Clara, where my mother was after having surgery. I recognized him immediately. We talked for a while and that was that. By 1975, I was living in Los Angeles and saw Father Duryea on a PBS station being interviewed. He was stripped of his priesthood because he was preaching that a Priest should be allowed to get married and was discovered to have been secretly married. I was shocked. Years later, I read about his life and marriage and that he even had a daughter. He had written many books and now was residing in Oaxaca, Mexico. In 2006, he passed away at the age of 88. I dearly loved this man. Not just from my childhood, but because of what he stood for and because he lived his beliefs. What an impression he made on this 7 year old little boy back in 1952.
Amazing to see this. My stepfather was a priest in this time period. He left the priesthood to marry my mother. He baptized me, and my middle name is named after him.
By 1975, a decade post Vatican 2, 90,000 Nuns + 100,000 Priests left their vocations. Every one who left has a story to tell, but these important people who made this choice ? Info is very scarce.
It takes 5 years to become an ordained priests sometimes longer that plenty of time to see if it suits them no one forces them to be one , the only issue I have is very young boys wanting to be a priest before developing emotionally first , thats the reason a lot of the sexual abuse took place too many males entered who were not emotionally developed .
Much of the sexual abuse was at the hands of gay priests. Pedophilia has been a part of the gay lifestyle forever. The secular world however is so politically correct that it's considered too taboo to talk about. If the Catholics had followed the original jewish law, which states that priests MUST be married to prevent sexual sin, much of that might have been averted. Instead, they cling to the false "Apostle" Paul, who taught the law was done away with.
No, sexual abuse took place because these priests were evil freaks. Emotional maturity by foot. They were deviants who made a conscience decision to hurt and violate children...literal children.
True in a few cases,but many have more experience and knowledge about family and compatibilty and what causes the frictions --- than even you do You don't say your doctor can't empathize with your sickness X because he doesn't have sickness X
I remember my grandma said about a new priest in her parish “women will be the downfall of his vocation”. He ended off running away with a nun and got married like Luther !
Guess you didn’t see the witness of the woman at 30:20 there are plenty of good women opposing the distractions of this world which we are all so caught up in
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,: "1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap. 8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
Im Roman Catholic and I love The fact that priest dont get marry. They sacrifice themselves for our community as Christ did, Unfortunelly people dont know what is to sacrifice to the others no more.
They were allowed to and the reason it was changed was so their assets would go to the church and not to their children, it’s not about purity it’s about control.
@@reezdog If anything it doesn't. Married men commit more lewd sexual actions than unmarried men statistically. Maybe it could reduce the problem but it won't eliminate it. But it's not enough to say it's what's the sole cause of pedophile priests. The spotlight is on the priests that do this stuff because that's our society but for every 1 priest that we as good Catholics should condemn but hopefully forgive for doing this as we should there's 99 other good priests. We are quick to forget that clergy are sinners just like the laity but of course they should set the example.
RICHARD SIPE, priest, psychologist and author who discovered the sexual lives of RC Clerics reported ~ 50% of Clerics ARE sexually active at any given time. THOMAS P DOYLE, priest, lawyer and author is another trustworthy source for accurate information.
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,: "1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap. 8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
Taking away all the theological fluff the practical reason for clerical celebacy was to prevent political dynasties and accumulation of wealth on the clergy that would rival as a pole of power to the secular authorities.
Mr Hoffman, What an appropriate time to post this video. In case you’re not aware of it, the Catholic Church hierarchy, and it’s most liberal Pope ever, are currently holding a synod in Rome, where all these questions in this video are again being addressed as I write this. Your film we just watched, was filmed during the huge changes in the church that were taking place due to the Vatican 2 council. A council of liberal ideas and “modern thinking” to apply to the church in order to “bring it up to date with the world”. Well 60 years later, those of us in the church see the ramifications of Vatican 2 right now, and what many Catholics feel is still destroying the church by corrupting it’s original teachings. Anyhow, that’s a very complex subject I won’t get into here, to much to cover. My main point was this video is being acted out as of today, in the ongoing synod assembled by the Pope to answer some of these exact questions! So your timing is perfect!! Thanks!! JM.
Pope Francis has spoken several times even before the synod and afterwards that women priests will never happen and that celibacy is a charism of the Church in model after Christ and the Apostles.
Paul VI the heretic himself was the culprit who let the “smoke of Satan” enter because he confirmed Vatican II and its heresies, replaced the Latin Mass with the protestantized Novus Ordo and changed the rite of ordination. He was also not a valid pope
My grandfather would have been 97 This year, and he always used to tell me when we worked together that he did not need church. Simply because he knew he could speak with God without an establishment. I myself found those words so powerful when I was 21 years old and to this day, I still live it! I connect with more people away from the church than I do in the church...
For those of you who are Catholic if this video is from 1967 why are the Catholic celebrating the New Mass (Novus Ordo) vs. the Latin Mass. I thought that began in 1969. As for the topic, this was an amazingly enlightening video. Thanks.
From 1965-70 , there was a lot of experimentation in the Liturgy. During this time , more and more English was being used , in many parishes , the priest began facing the congregation and new altars were installed. The Novus Ordo came in 1969 but there was the so called 1965 missal with lots of supplements and changes between 1965-69
A very good friend of mine became a priest shortly after this period. He remained one for the rest of his life, but ultimately broke with the Catholic Church and joined the Anglican/Episcopal Communion. He was ordained in a time of reform and liberalizing. By the the mid 1980s he was the only one left among his original peer group as the Church turned in a steadily more reactionary direction.
The problem at the beginning was the man said they had would be priests hoping that The Catholic Chruch would change the law. It's not a law. It's a discipline. Eastern Catholic Church (e.g. Byzantine) allow someone who is married to become an ordained Catholic priest.
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,: "1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap. 8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
I mean that last priest really tried to make a point, how could the pope, who is Peter, have you ever gotten the notion that his authority came from God. I mean, that would have required Jesus to have said something like "I give you the keys to the kingdom" or something crazy like "what you bind on Earth will be bound in heaven." It's not like that happened... Oh wait, that literally happened. What's so weird about this is to suggest that the pope has never spoken to or thought about a married couple.
I'd say yes. Maybe it would have forced out the paedophiles and barbaric clergymen and nuns a little sooner. I would expect married people with children of their own would be less likely to conceal those criminals. It would have changed the institution.
This intense debate need not to happen had the Latin rite listening to Eastern Catholics who to this day still ordaining married men into priesthood. I am a subdeacon in Byzantine Catholic Church. Do you know that in US there are more married priests in Anglican Ordinariate than in all Eastern Catholics combined? I pray may St John Paul II prophecy be fulfilled. Let us breathe from both lungs. The same Holy Spirit didn't impose celibacy as mandatory in Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. What is a gift ought to be encouraged as an option not as commandment.
@danielbroache there were married bishops such as St Anastasius of Rome and his son St Innocent both popes. Pope Hadrian II exonerated St Methodius, he was not only married but his wife Stephania lived with him in the Basilica of St John Lateran. St Basil the Elder was a married bishop, he was the father of St Basil the Great. The Church has power to bind and to lose, at later time the Church decreed that no one married can be ordained into the episcopacy. Presbytery is not episcopacy. To this day Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, and Anglican Ordinariate have married priests.
I never grew up Catholic but my friend that's 65 did he's German on his side. They left the church years ago. My mother was Irish Catholic but her family left the church 1940s. My dad was a southern Baptist all his life. I grew up with my parents two different religions. The priest getting married they leave the church. Some churches the pastor gets married and stays. Thanks for sharing this with us David Hoffman film maker. 🎥🎞️🙂
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,: "1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap. 8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
I feel the man speaking at 31:25 could just as easily be speaking about a few issues that are facing us today. Thank you David for this historic peek into our past
A calling is just that a 'calling.' Problem always is, what defines that calling? if it comes from 'ego mind' or social and familial expectations then it's not a calling but a suggestion and 'want' of others on you. It's a choice rather than a real spiritual calling which is never a decision but an invitation. Get the difference? It's HUGE. Far as the celibacy debate, all Jesuits I ever sat and smoke and drank with all said of course they struggle awful depression with no sex or they ARE active with females or were gay - so what? I'll end with this - if your belief in a deity is solely based on the origin story being that of immaculate conception/virgin birth and in following, clergy must renounce all sex (which is really about NOT leaving a wife money that must return to mother church vs a spouse when a priest dies) how strong is your faith? Jesus MUST be celibate in order to be savior? Really? Again, if that is what your hero is held to account by in order to be considered divine then I dare say, your 'faith' is quite weak. The entire 'sex' issue in ALL religions is about one thing only - controlling women. Period. And of course, as I said, money. Peace to you all on you spirit paths! A'HO.
Pope Francis is probably giving this some thought is Priest and everyone else are leaving the church or the faith altogether. Things are becoming more CLEAR to people.
I am catholic as well, and they always taught me to never marry if you want to be a priest..that felt dead, fruitless, lifeless. And they say not to drink but yet they serve wine in church...
@@towerofresonance4877 They use bread and wine because that's what Jesus and his disciples consumed during the Last Supper. The drinking of wine in the Church is symbolic, you're taking a small sip, not chugging down bottles of MD 20/20! 😆
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,: "1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap. 8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
There are married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The choice to marry must be made BEFORE ordination as marriage is also a sacrament. In those situations, the seminarian or lay person takes the vow of marriage first, followed by the vows of ordination. For the most part, this practice is found in remote areas. However, the problem becomes one of the parish being able to financially support a married priest and his family. Moreover, if the assignment does not work out, it is very costly to move an entire family to another parish, assuming you can find one financially stable. To address these challenges, the church allows for married deacons. In both instances, priest and deacon, if the wife predeceases the husband, they may not remarry.
@@delvingeorge2807In the East (Catholic and Orthodox), married men who apply to seminary, and subsequently ordained, cannot remarry upon the death of the wife. This is what would happen in the West if the celibacy law is repealed. Likewise, those in the East who apply to seminary, and subsequently ordained, are bound to celibacy.
People cite historical reasons for that. I heard it could have had something to do with inheritance law, since the church did not want priests to pass things on to potential children.
I don't see any legitimate reason for mandatory celibacy. With that being said, your comment makes no sense. Humans have all kinds of desires...many of which should not be carried out. Anger, violence, pedophilia...the list goes on. God designed us to have free will, but that means we have the responsibility to control ourselves and choose what is right. Freely.
The back and forth between Sister Francetta (introduced at 16:10) and Father Daniel Lyons (17:20) I found interesting. I feel like it could have easily been an hour long debate btw those two.
The Clergy of Early Church had issues when Priests were Married. Yes, there were Married priests as St. Peter the first Pope was Married. The Priest kept Continence like St. Aquila and St. Pricila. The Bishops mostly were celibate. The priests then who were married, were not Continent in their Marriage and often were Bad examples. Bringing Concubines and having Conjugal relations and often falling to Carnal desires of the World. Thus it was put to Cannon Law in Later years that all Priests be celibate.
It’s there a causal link between being single and being attracted to children? I think the molesters were child predators before becoming priests and knew that they’d have access to kids.
It would not. But it would have stopped those with iffy sexual orientation from seeking the priesthood as an escape. Damaged or unhealthy people given a pedestal and power? is a recipe for disaster.
*These words are not mine.* These are the words the Ruach HaKodesh (YAHUAH's Set-Apart Spirit) uttered through me when I prayed to YAHUAH; asking him what *he wants* me to say, knowing the truth. He with ears, hear: "Know that YAHUAH is the name of the Most High and YAHUsha is the name of The Son. Come out of her, my people, who have fallen to the deceit of Constantine. Who know not my name and say they love me. I have made myself known. I have heard you and I am here. There are many who are yours to be saved. I am he who knows all that you are. Come to me, here are they who are mine. Make haste to come, here are we. Give in to them who speak of me, they are yours. I am here for you. Know that all is for them, here are we. Give not to them that are against me. I am he who sees all you do. Come to me out of her, all are here for me. Do what I say. Out of her, come. All are here." Exodus 3:13-15 KJV 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. John 5:43 KJV 43 *I am come in my Father's name,* and ye receive me not: *if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.* 2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and *touch not the unclean thing;* *and I will receive you.* Isaiah 52:6-7 KJV 6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! 2 Corinthians 6:1-2 KJV 1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) Romans 10:1-3 KJV 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:13-17 KJV 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 *How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?* 15 *And how shall they preach, except they be sent?* as it is written, *How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!* 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. *For Esaias saith,* Lord, *who hath believed our report?* 17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.* Nahum 1:7 KJV 7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and *he knoweth them that trust in him.* Hebrews 3:15 KJV 15 *While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.* Isaiah 52:11 KJV 11 *Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing;* go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. John 14:15 KJV 15 *If ye love me, keep my commandments.*
@Call_Upon_YAHUAH The common English rendering of the name of the Sovereign Lord of the universe is Jehovah. It is the name by which he himself chose to be identified. The Tetragrammaton (as the four Hebrew letters of God’s name are known) occurs in the Hebrew text of the Bible nearly 7,000 times-far more often than does any descriptive title for God. That name is no mere label. It distinguishes the true God from all other gods, including man-made gods. It is the name that all intelligent creatures should know, honor, and sanctify.
Only you can save your soul. The church is a social club for like minded individuals focused on biblical teachings. According to the Bible only a few will be chosen to go to heaven. A sad and hopeless situation for the majority of hopefuls.
Only the Latin Rite seeks celibacy. But even Christ said this: “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” Matthew 19:12 And St. Paul who was celibate said this: “For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:” 1 Corinthians 7:7-10
The (former?) nun stated that you can't love God until you love yourself, but Christ had two commandments: "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind and all your strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself." In that order. We must love God before all things, even ourselves.
I give credit to the priest that stood up to her, and this isn’t probably going to be popular but that’s also why women can’t be priests to much emotion and I,I,I
The dissenters within the Church in 1968 were rebels. They were concerned with self and human interest. Where is the love of God and where is God's grace. These people were self absorbed losers.
What a depressing and insular conversation. Nothing of the Catholic religion gives any of these people joy. Yes there were problems with the Church then, there are problems now. But none of them say as St Peter said, "To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life"
AS a Catholic,former Protestant I don't like to doubt it and comparing both sides.I love Catholic and accept their traditions but never rejected Protestant. I stand for Jesus❤❤
SINCE this discussion....it seems there's still the split...a war....overthrown :( Assuming this discussion went nowhere since 1960's tho ? .. Assuming it's been a "thing" since well before millennia's ago #BAHMBAHM BAHM .... excuse my immaturity on the subject ... it comes from head trauma I think ...
I’m Catholic, this video is interesting, the take away I would want to tell people about is that while these men speak passionately about this topic, it should not be assumed that the are absolutely correct. It’s not always popular, or relevant to the times, but priestly celibacy is of God. These were enemies of the Church speaking., the enemies of the church continue to speak, They blend good points, with evil ends. Evil ends.
Thank you for speaking your mind. I have been considering the Catholic Church for about two years now. Currently a Protestant and a fairly tepid one at that. But there is something captivating I find with the Latin rites, and the TLM in particular. I’ve been watching The Mass of the Ages documentary and was deeply moved by it. My beliefs have also been challenged when I watch interviews with Catholic exorcists, who speak of the authority given to them to cast out demons. Humility and authority both on display. Please keep me in your prayers.
From where do such doctrines that forbid one to marry originate? The church claims to believe the Holy Bible as being the Word of God. “Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. They will forbid marriage...” *1 Tim. 4:1-3a, The Catholic Confraternity Bible*
@@vieiradosreismariadelurdes9105 “Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” Matthew 19:6-9 m
How can one have input on marriage or any input on correcting or raising kids if they have never done any of it. I think I’d want advice with someone that’s been there done that.. otherwise they haven’t a clue…. And give wrong advice.. idk it’s just weird to me.. marriage would keep the creepers from crossing that line for the most part. Just my opinion. Interesting video for sure.✌🏼
Marriage is a divine institution, authorized and established by God in Eden. Marriage brings into being the family unit, the family circle. Its basic purpose was the reproducing of the members of the human family, to bring into existence more creatures of the humankind. Our Creator made male and female and ordained marriage as the proper arrangement for the multiplication of the human race. Gen. 1:27, 28. The first human wedding was performed by God, as described at Genesis 2:22-24.
Yes, and how very sad it is that many individuals have made a mockery of this wonderful arrangement by taking it so lightly or feeling it's not even necessary. We can clearly see the negative results of that type of attitude today.
The church is there to fellowship with one another you need to re up to help people out side of the church at church you get your courage from one another Jesus made it his business to teach in the temple you should never think that you can do it alone and that you don't need no one for in that area that's when Satan steps in good luck isolating your self that's what the devil want you to do
Yeah, I want life altering advice from religious recruiting, selling, controlling con-men, dellusionalist in a pretend God ideology people, who don't have a clue about dealing with real life, or a degree in Psycology, or family counseling....telling me what to do!😮😅
The church has always had married priests, just not Roman priests. In the Eastern rites married priests have always existed. Peter was married, as were all the Apostles except for Paul. Now we see married Roman priests who were formerly Anglicans.
It's refreshing to hear articulate people debate something without being shouted down or jeered.
A lot has changed in only 55 years, generally people were better educated and respectful in my opinion.
@stemartin6671 Good point.
Indeed, expect when men disagreed with women speaking. Then interrupting was common.
@stemartin6671… “We have highly educated kids”? The fact is, kids of the US, have the lowest ratings worldwide. This is not my opinion, this is fact, based on recent surveys and statistics. Every country around the world is turning out better educated children than we are. Just last year, one particular school had to cancel its graduation ceremonies because not even ONE student could pass a random state testing. Parents (believe it or not) demanded their kids still be allowed to graduate!
We have masses of 16 & 18 year olds who are technically illiterate, yet they receive a diploma. All anyone has to do to see the truth of this, is so 10 minutes worth of research! Or, walk up to anyone under 20 years of age and ask them to read & write something for you that’s above a 3rd grade vocabulary, and also including proper punctuation, and you will be sadly disappointed.
There is of course a small minority of bright kids. But they’re the few exceptions. Statistics show us general trends.
You’re correct. People in general were better educated, and people in general were most certainly better mannered. We live in a society today that teaches kids that conforming to rules is bad. We teach kids that whatever THEY think & feel about something is perfectly fine, and that they can act out and say anything they want in public, and that’s just fine. There is no longer any limits or guidelines young people adhere to, to be a proper member of society. It’s more or less a free for all.
So Yes! Gone are the days of rational, intellectual debate. When someone has an opposing view these days, the conversation immediately turns into a screaming match, even with compliments of name calling like children do. Gone are the standards of respecting others. It’s all about “me me me” nowadays. Society has gone so far as to eliminating all debate, by making certain words off limits for all to say. They’ve turned words into racism, instead of true acts of racism. They’ve turned words into meaning “hate speech”, even when used to try to discuss something intellectually. Just look around, it couldn’t be more obvious! Even our elected officials now resort to name calling and out right slander when they disagree on a topic. No one respects ANYTHING anymore. Not even the office of President. The world has truly gone crazy. Right is wrong, black is white, and everything is turned upside down.
*These words are not mine.* These are the words the Ruach HaKodesh (YAHUAH's Set-Apart Spirit) uttered through me when I prayed to YAHUAH; asking him what *he wants* me to say, knowing the truth. To they with ears:
"Know that YAHUAH is the name of the Most High and YAHUsha is the name of The Son.
Come out of her, my people, who have fallen to the deceit of Constantine. Who know not my name and say they love me. I have made myself known. I have heard you and I am here.
There are many who are yours to be saved. I am he who knows all that you are. Come to me, here are they who are mine. Make haste to come, here are we. Give in to them who speak of me, they are yours. I am here for you. Know that all is for them, here are we.
Give not to them that are against me. I am he who sees all you do. Come to me out of her, all are here for me. Do what I say. Out of her, come. All are here."
Exodus 3:13-15 KJV
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
John 5:43 KJV
43 *I am come in my Father's name,* and ye receive me not: *if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.*
2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and *touch not the unclean thing;* *and I will receive you.*
Isaiah 52:6-7 KJV
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
2 Corinthians 6:1-2 KJV
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Romans 10:1-3 KJV
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:13-17 KJV
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 *How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?*
15 *And how shall they preach, except they be sent?* as it is written, *How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!*
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. *For Esaias saith,* Lord, *who hath believed our report?*
17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.*
Nahum 1:7 KJV
7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and *he knoweth them that trust in him.*
Hebrews 3:15 KJV
15 *While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.*
Isaiah 52:11 KJV
11 *Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing;* go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord.
John 14:15 KJV
15 *If ye love me, keep my commandments.*
Trust me SOUTHERN BAPTISTS and METHODIST molest like hell too. I know. My cousins are those. 😢😢😢😢😢
Sexual deviancy isn't exclusive to the religious. It's a part of our human story. What is important to know is that a lot of sexual immorality against children happens at the hands of married people. In fact more married individuals commit more sexual sins against youth than married men.
Allowing priests to marry may reduce the problem but it won't eliminate the problem.
This is not about molestation. Please don't conflate the two. Married men molest children too.
It is so interesting to me how speech patterns change throughout the decades. There are so many aspects as to why this is. I guess what I am getting at is the vocal pitch and intellectual manner of which is spoken is very mature and polite as opposed to today's conversationalist.
Could you imagine this now…. ? No way Josè.😛
The good ole days.
The government wants us all uptight.. arguing..and twenty other reasons not to look at and investigate what politicians are truly up to and the truth hidden along with the corruption. Those days are long gone and it’s sad.
i think thats a big reason why i watch these older videos, they way people talked to each other was just so genuine
This video is just sad. The breakdown comes as a result of self centeredness and not Christ centeredness. Pray for the souls of those priests who led people astray.
A stellar write up in your description DavidI am just now watching your video I can see were in 1967 this televise debate would raise some eyebrows.
When I was a child in Oakland in 1952, I attended St. Joseph's,Catholic School. A young priest had just arrived and the children loved him. His name was Father John Duryea. In 1962, when I was about 15 or 16, I was living in Santa Clara, CA. . I ran into Father Duryea at a Catholic hospital in Santa Clara, where my mother was after having surgery. I recognized him immediately. We talked for a while and that was that. By 1975, I was living in Los Angeles and saw Father Duryea on a PBS station being interviewed. He was stripped of his priesthood because he was preaching that a Priest should be allowed to get married and was discovered to have been secretly married. I was shocked. Years later, I read about his life and marriage and that he even had a daughter. He had written many books and now was residing in Oaxaca, Mexico. In 2006, he passed away at the age of 88. I dearly loved this man. Not just from my childhood, but because of what he stood for and because he lived his beliefs. What an impression he made on this 7 year old little boy back in 1952.
Pray for his soul, that he died repentant of his sin in apostatizing from the faith and breaking his vows to God.
I agree with this Priest! I would 100% rather see them be able to get married!❤❤❤❤
Become Orthodox or Anglican at that point. Their Priests are allowed to Marry and their sacraments are just as valid.
@@TruLuanyes but their reception might not be. And Anglican that is debatable
The Church jn Her wisdom sees celibacy and a sacrifice and gift to God.
Thanks for this piece of history
Amazing to see this. My stepfather was a priest in this time period. He left the priesthood to marry my mother. He baptized me, and my middle name is named after him.
By 1975, a decade post Vatican 2,
90,000 Nuns + 100,000 Priests
left their vocations.
Every one who left has a story to tell, but these important people who made this choice ? Info is very scarce.
Wow, this is great! Thank you for posting this.
It takes 5 years to become an ordained priests sometimes longer that plenty of time to see if it suits them no one forces them to be one , the only issue I have is very young boys wanting to be a priest before developing emotionally first , thats the reason a lot of the sexual abuse took place too many males entered who were not emotionally developed .
Much of the sexual abuse was at the hands of gay priests. Pedophilia has been a part of the gay lifestyle forever. The secular world however is so politically correct that it's considered too taboo to talk about. If the Catholics had followed the original jewish law, which states that priests MUST be married to prevent sexual sin, much of that might have been averted. Instead, they cling to the false "Apostle" Paul, who taught the law was done away with.
No, sexual abuse took place because these priests were evil freaks. Emotional maturity by foot. They were deviants who made a conscience decision to hurt and violate children...literal children.
I often wondered how a priest could counsel a family when he himself doesn't have first hand experience having a family himself.
He is married to the Church and everyone calls them Father because they are his spiritual children. Priests are family men by nature.
Do you know the process of priestly formation?
True in a few cases,but many have more experience and knowledge about family and compatibilty and what causes the frictions --- than even you do
You don't say your doctor can't empathize with your sickness X because he doesn't have sickness X
@@TCM1231That is some major mental gymnastics from my perspective.
I remember my grandma said about a new priest in her parish “women will be the downfall of his vocation”. He ended off running away with a nun and got married like Luther !
Guess you didn’t see the witness of the woman at 30:20 there are plenty of good women opposing the distractions of this world which we are all so caught up in
I shit you not, I just made a video on exactly this!!!!!!! Thank you again, David. Thank you for all you gift us via the truth.
I love you 🤍
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,:
"1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
Mr. Hoffman thank you for sharing your work with us
Im Roman Catholic and I love The fact that priest dont get marry. They sacrifice themselves for our community as Christ did, Unfortunelly people dont know what is to sacrifice to the others no more.
They were allowed to and the reason it was changed was so their assets would go to the church and not to their children, it’s not about purity it’s about control.
@@reezdog If anything it doesn't. Married men commit more lewd sexual actions than unmarried men statistically. Maybe it could reduce the problem but it won't eliminate it. But it's not enough to say it's what's the sole cause of pedophile priests. The spotlight is on the priests that do this stuff because that's our society but for every 1 priest that we as good Catholics should condemn but hopefully forgive for doing this as we should there's 99 other good priests.
We are quick to forget that clergy are sinners just like the laity but of course they should set the example.
Celibacy is not the cause of pedophilia but of the lack of chastity@@reezdog
RICHARD SIPE, priest, psychologist and author who discovered the sexual lives of
RC Clerics reported ~
50% of Clerics ARE sexually active
at any given time.
THOMAS P DOYLE, priest, lawyer and author is another trustworthy source for accurate information.
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,:
"1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
He who finds a wife finds a good thing ❤
I'm insanely impressed by the civility of the participants. I truly am a product of my time
Taking away all the theological fluff the practical reason for clerical celebacy was to prevent political dynasties and accumulation of wealth on the clergy that would rival as a pole of power to the secular authorities.
Mr Hoffman,
What an appropriate time to post this video. In case you’re not aware of it, the Catholic Church hierarchy, and it’s most liberal Pope ever, are currently holding a synod in Rome, where all these questions in this video are again being addressed as I write this.
Your film we just watched, was filmed during the huge changes in the church that were taking place due to the Vatican 2 council. A council of liberal ideas and “modern thinking” to apply to the church in order to “bring it up to date with the world”. Well 60 years later, those of us in the church see the ramifications of Vatican 2 right now, and what many Catholics feel is still destroying the church by corrupting it’s original teachings.
Anyhow, that’s a very complex subject I won’t get into here, to much to cover. My main point was this video is being acted out as of today, in the ongoing synod assembled by the Pope to answer some of these exact questions! So your timing is perfect!!
Thanks!! JM.
Pope Francis has spoken several times even before the synod and afterwards that women priests will never happen and that celibacy is a charism of the Church in model after Christ and the Apostles.
“Through some crack the smoke of satan has entered into the Church of God.”
-Pope Paul VI
Paul VI the heretic himself was the culprit who let the “smoke of Satan” enter because he confirmed Vatican II and its heresies, replaced the Latin Mass with the protestantized Novus Ordo and changed the rite of ordination. He was also not a valid pope
Surprised at how long i watched this. Good write up in the description.
My grandfather would have been 97 This year, and he always used to tell me when we worked together that he did not need church. Simply because he knew he could speak with God without an establishment. I myself found those words so powerful when I was 21 years old and to this day, I still live it! I connect with more people away from the church than I do in the church...
For those of you who are Catholic if this video is from 1967 why are the Catholic celebrating the New Mass (Novus Ordo) vs. the Latin Mass. I thought that began in 1969. As for the topic, this was an amazingly enlightening video. Thanks.
The experimental Missal was issued in 1965. The N.O. was issued in 1969.
The mass changed over mostly to the local language around 1964.
From 1965-70 , there was a lot of experimentation in the Liturgy. During this time , more and more English was being used , in many parishes , the priest began facing the congregation and new altars were installed. The Novus Ordo came in 1969 but there was the so called 1965 missal with lots of supplements and changes between 1965-69
A very good friend of mine became a priest shortly after this period. He remained one for the rest of his life, but ultimately broke with the Catholic Church and joined the Anglican/Episcopal Communion. He was ordained in a time of reform and liberalizing. By the the mid 1980s he was the only one left among his original peer group as the Church turned in a steadily more reactionary direction.
This conversation is fascinating. Shared with fellow M.Divs.
The problem at the beginning was the man said they had would be priests hoping that The Catholic Chruch would change the law. It's not a law. It's a discipline. Eastern Catholic Church (e.g. Byzantine) allow someone who is married to become an ordained Catholic priest.
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,:
"1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
I mean that last priest really tried to make a point, how could the pope, who is Peter, have you ever gotten the notion that his authority came from God. I mean, that would have required Jesus to have said something like "I give you the keys to the kingdom" or something crazy like "what you bind on Earth will be bound in heaven." It's not like that happened... Oh wait, that literally happened. What's so weird about this is to suggest that the pope has never spoken to or thought about a married couple.
I'd say yes. Maybe it would have forced out the paedophiles and barbaric clergymen and nuns a little sooner. I would expect married people with children of their own would be less likely to conceal those criminals. It would have changed the institution.
You still get ped0s in the eastern churches whose priests are allowed to marry
most sexual assault is committed in the home by family members an overwhelming majority in fact
This intense debate need not to happen had the Latin rite listening to Eastern Catholics who to this day still ordaining married men into priesthood. I am a subdeacon in Byzantine Catholic Church. Do you know that in US there are more married priests in Anglican Ordinariate than in all Eastern Catholics combined? I pray may St John Paul II prophecy be fulfilled. Let us breathe from both lungs. The same Holy Spirit didn't impose celibacy as mandatory in Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. What is a gift ought to be encouraged as an option not as commandment.
True, but to be a bishop in the Eastern Rite you must be celibate.
@danielbroache there were married bishops such as St Anastasius of Rome and his son St Innocent both popes. Pope Hadrian II exonerated St Methodius, he was not only married but his wife Stephania lived with him in the Basilica of St John Lateran. St Basil the Elder was a married bishop, he was the father of St Basil the Great. The Church has power to bind and to lose, at later time the Church decreed that no one married can be ordained into the episcopacy. Presbytery is not episcopacy. To this day Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, and Anglican Ordinariate have married priests.
@@AdithiaKusno That’s a historical truth not a modern reality. Not disagreeing with you by the way.
@@AdithiaKusno marriage does not imply continence was not maintained by the clergy
I never grew up Catholic but my friend that's 65 did he's German on his side. They left the church years ago. My mother was Irish Catholic but her family left the church 1940s. My dad was a southern Baptist all his life. I grew up with my parents two different religions. The priest getting married they leave the church. Some churches the pastor gets married and stays. Thanks for sharing this with us David Hoffman film maker. 🎥🎞️🙂
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,:
"1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
I feel the man speaking at 31:25 could just as easily be speaking about a few issues that are facing us today.
Thank you David for this historic peek into our past
A calling is just that a 'calling.' Problem always is, what defines that calling? if it comes from 'ego mind' or social and familial expectations then it's not a calling but a suggestion and 'want' of others on you. It's a choice rather than a real spiritual calling which is never a decision but an invitation. Get the difference? It's HUGE. Far as the celibacy debate, all Jesuits I ever sat and smoke and drank with all said of course they struggle awful depression with no sex or they ARE active with females or were gay - so what? I'll end with this - if your belief in a deity is solely based on the origin story being that of immaculate conception/virgin birth and in following, clergy must renounce all sex (which is really about NOT leaving a wife money that must return to mother church vs a spouse when a priest dies) how strong is your faith? Jesus MUST be celibate in order to be savior? Really? Again, if that is what your hero is held to account by in order to be considered divine then I dare say, your 'faith' is quite weak. The entire 'sex' issue in ALL religions is about one thing only - controlling women. Period. And of course, as I said, money. Peace to you all on you spirit paths! A'HO.
Pope Francis is probably giving this some thought is Priest and everyone else are leaving the church or the faith altogether. Things are becoming more CLEAR to people.
Honestly I'm so glad that I found your channel. The videos you provide are always eye opening, and usually a quite timely look into the past.
I am catholic, and this answered so many of my past questions.
I am catholic as well, and they always taught me to never marry if you want to be a priest..that felt dead, fruitless, lifeless. And they say not to drink but yet they serve wine in church...
@@towerofresonance4877 No Church document says don’t drink. The point is to not get drunk and lose your ability to reason.
@@cs5384 Go read just about anything from St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Augustine and then get back to me.
@@towerofresonance4877 They use bread and wine because that's what Jesus and his disciples consumed during the Last Supper. The drinking of wine in the Church is symbolic, you're taking a small sip, not chugging down bottles of MD 20/20! 😆
If not for the discussion, furthermore, married priesthood is completely BIBLICAL. As written in First Timothy Chapter 3,:
"1 This saying is trustworthy:[b] whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.[c] 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
8 [d]Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, 9 holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11 Women,[e] similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything. 12 Deacons may be married only once and must manage their children and their households well. 13 Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus."
There are married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The choice to marry must be made BEFORE ordination as marriage is also a sacrament. In those situations, the seminarian or lay person takes the vow of marriage first, followed by the vows of ordination. For the most part, this practice is found in remote areas. However, the problem becomes one of the parish being able to financially support a married priest and his family. Moreover, if the assignment does not work out, it is very costly to move an entire family to another parish, assuming you can find one financially stable. To address these challenges, the church allows for married deacons. In both instances, priest and deacon, if the wife predeceases the husband, they may not remarry.
It's ridiculous that they can't get married. Marriage is considered one of the seven holy sacraments but a priest isn't allowed to do it..?
Holy Orders is what they chose
@@delvingeorge2807In the East (Catholic and Orthodox), married men who apply to seminary, and subsequently ordained, cannot remarry upon the death of the wife. This is what would happen in the West if the celibacy law is repealed. Likewise, those in the East who apply to seminary, and subsequently ordained, are bound to celibacy.
People cite historical reasons for that. I heard it could have had something to do with inheritance law, since the church did not want priests to pass things on to potential children.
@@trashaccount5106 Yes, this was part of it too.
@@CatholicTraditional Ok
Why would god give you desires and then say don’t you dare listen to your natural instincts! Silly. Why?! Man made rules
I don't see any legitimate reason for mandatory celibacy. With that being said, your comment makes no sense. Humans have all kinds of desires...many of which should not be carried out. Anger, violence, pedophilia...the list goes on. God designed us to have free will, but that means we have the responsibility to control ourselves and choose what is right. Freely.
Did anyone notice the complete lack of ums, ahs and filler words?
I did. ✅
I heard several ums throughout it
That was great. Where's the rest of it?
Is this all your footage, David??
GOD Bless All ! 🕊
Satan be with you
There's something modern looking about this video.
That last dude was making really good points
The back and forth between Sister Francetta (introduced at 16:10) and Father Daniel Lyons (17:20) I found interesting. I feel like it could have easily been an hour long debate btw those two.
Just be a Deacon.
When the Magisterium infallibly defines an article pertaining to faith or morals, your opinion becomes irrelevant…
David how can we find this in its full running time? I’m fascinated by this discussion
I have not posted the full program but most of it is here.
David Hoffman filmmaker
The Clergy of Early Church had issues when Priests were Married. Yes, there were Married priests as St. Peter the first Pope was Married. The Priest kept Continence like St. Aquila and St. Pricila. The Bishops mostly were celibate. The priests then who were married, were not Continent in their Marriage and often were Bad examples. Bringing Concubines and having Conjugal relations and often falling to Carnal desires of the World. Thus it was put to Cannon Law in Later years that all Priests be celibate.
A priest who doesnt want to be a priest.. damn :(
I think they should be allow to marry. It may have stopped the acts of molestation ..
It’s there a causal link between being single and being attracted to children?
I think the molesters were child predators before becoming priests and knew that they’d have access to kids.
It would not. But it would have stopped those with iffy sexual orientation from seeking the priesthood as an escape. Damaged or unhealthy people given a pedestal and power? is a recipe for disaster.
This starts so strong
*These words are not mine.* These are the words the Ruach HaKodesh (YAHUAH's Set-Apart Spirit) uttered through me when I prayed to YAHUAH; asking him what *he wants* me to say, knowing the truth. He with ears, hear:
"Know that YAHUAH is the name of the Most High and YAHUsha is the name of The Son.
Come out of her, my people, who have fallen to the deceit of Constantine. Who know not my name and say they love me. I have made myself known. I have heard you and I am here.
There are many who are yours to be saved. I am he who knows all that you are. Come to me, here are they who are mine. Make haste to come, here are we. Give in to them who speak of me, they are yours. I am here for you. Know that all is for them, here are we.
Give not to them that are against me. I am he who sees all you do. Come to me out of her, all are here for me. Do what I say. Out of her, come. All are here."
Exodus 3:13-15 KJV
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
John 5:43 KJV
43 *I am come in my Father's name,* and ye receive me not: *if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.*
2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and *touch not the unclean thing;* *and I will receive you.*
Isaiah 52:6-7 KJV
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
2 Corinthians 6:1-2 KJV
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Romans 10:1-3 KJV
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:13-17 KJV
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 *How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?*
15 *And how shall they preach, except they be sent?* as it is written, *How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!*
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. *For Esaias saith,* Lord, *who hath believed our report?*
17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.*
Nahum 1:7 KJV
7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and *he knoweth them that trust in him.*
Hebrews 3:15 KJV
15 *While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.*
Isaiah 52:11 KJV
11 *Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing;* go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord.
John 14:15 KJV
15 *If ye love me, keep my commandments.*
@Call_Upon_YAHUAH The common English rendering of the name of the Sovereign Lord of the universe is Jehovah. It is the name by which he himself chose to be identified. The Tetragrammaton (as the four Hebrew letters of God’s name are known) occurs in the Hebrew text of the Bible nearly 7,000 times-far more often than does any descriptive title for God. That name is no mere label. It distinguishes the true God from all other gods, including man-made gods. It is the name that all intelligent creatures should know, honor, and sanctify.
Only you can save your soul. The church is a social club for like minded individuals focused on biblical teachings. According to the Bible only a few will be chosen to go to heaven. A sad and hopeless situation for the majority of hopefuls.
@leunam3434 The Bible also teaches that the earth was meant to be inhabited and that many people will live forever on it. Psalms 37:9, 11, 29.
God can only save souls.
Only the Latin Rite seeks celibacy. But even Christ said this:
“For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”
Matthew 19:12
And St. Paul who was celibate said this:
“For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:”
1 Corinthians 7:7-10
The (former?) nun stated that you can't love God until you love yourself, but Christ had two commandments: "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind and all your strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself." In that order. We must love God before all things, even ourselves.
I give credit to the priest that stood up to her, and this isn’t probably going to be popular but that’s also why women can’t be priests to much emotion and I,I,I
@@NathanMiller-p3o I absolutely agree
Thanks. According to one of the speakers, it's 1968.
The dissenters within the Church in 1968 were rebels. They were concerned with self and human interest. Where is the love of God and where is God's grace. These people were self absorbed losers.
Krazy idea forbidding marriage for Priests
Resipe for Disaster
Hense the Child Abuse…
What a depressing and insular conversation. Nothing of the Catholic religion gives any of these people joy. Yes there were problems with the Church then, there are problems now. But none of them say as St Peter said, "To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life"
Pope Francis seems very open to allowing priests to marry. It's an idea whose time has come.
@fazbell Also, authorizing and blessing same-sex unions which is totally contrary to Biblical teachings.
@@super1mediaThere aren't blessings of same-sex unions in Catholicism. They cannot be blessed according to Pope Francis
If the argument is for celibacy and thus the priests marry the “bride” Church, well, we see how that turned out.
AS a Catholic,former Protestant I don't like to doubt it and comparing both sides.I love Catholic and accept their traditions but never rejected Protestant. I stand for Jesus❤❤
You can't stand on the fence, I was catholic now protestant, what catholic teaches most isn't biblical but unbiblical tradition.
Here we see Brent Bozell doing his very best William F. Buckley impersonation. Not bad, really.
That was he brother in law.
SINCE this discussion....it seems there's still the split...a war....overthrown :( Assuming this discussion went nowhere since 1960's tho ? .. Assuming it's been a "thing" since well before millennia's ago #BAHMBAHM BAHM ....
excuse my immaturity on the subject ... it comes from head trauma I think ...
Faithless. In my tradition priest can marry. But these people are faithless.
I’m Catholic, this video is interesting, the take away I would want to tell people about is that while these men speak passionately about this topic, it should not be assumed that the are absolutely correct. It’s not always popular, or relevant to the times, but priestly celibacy is of God. These were enemies of the Church speaking., the enemies of the church continue to speak, They blend good points, with evil ends. Evil ends.
Thank you for speaking your mind. I have been considering the Catholic Church for about two years now. Currently a Protestant and a fairly tepid one at that. But there is something captivating I find with the Latin rites, and the TLM in particular. I’ve been watching The Mass of the Ages documentary and was deeply moved by it.
My beliefs have also been challenged when I watch interviews with Catholic exorcists, who speak of the authority given to them to cast out demons. Humility and authority both on display.
Please keep me in your prayers.
From where do such doctrines that forbid one to marry originate? The church claims to believe the Holy Bible as being the Word of God. “Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. They will forbid marriage...”
*1 Tim. 4:1-3a, The Catholic Confraternity Bible*
Look at them hand signals. Very interesting.
No where in the bible does it forbid a priest or elder to marry.
Can't marry twice.
Why not?
If you are married and not happy...why should you not Divorce? And REmarry?
@@vieiradosreismariadelurdes9105
“Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
Matthew 19:6-9 m
Yes!!! then they might leave our kids alone
Unlike the schools
Kids get abused mostly in the home , stop generalising .
Couldn’t Priest marry before the 6 century. It would be a good idea but I’m not Catholic
How can one have input on marriage or any input on correcting or raising kids if they have never done any of it. I think I’d want advice with someone that’s been there done that.. otherwise they haven’t a clue…. And give wrong advice.. idk it’s just weird to me.. marriage would keep the creepers from crossing that line for the most part. Just my opinion. Interesting video for sure.✌🏼
@MikeHensley-sc3ns Jesus and the Apostle Paul never married, yet they gave some of the finest moral counsel on both marriage and singleness.
Is marriage mentioned as somerthing bad in the Bible? Ah, but then again, what is even the Biblical definition?
@Davidhoffman what if…..
Israel is a people and not a country?
Marriage is a divine institution, authorized and established by God in Eden. Marriage brings into being the family unit, the family circle. Its basic purpose was the reproducing of the members of the human family, to bring into existence more creatures of the humankind. Our Creator made male and female and ordained marriage as the proper arrangement for the multiplication of the human race. Gen. 1:27, 28. The first human wedding was performed by God, as described at Genesis 2:22-24.
😂
Yes, and how very sad it is that many individuals have made a mockery of this wonderful arrangement by taking it so lightly or feeling it's not even necessary. We can clearly see the negative results of that type of attitude today.
The church is there to fellowship with one another you need to re up to help people out side of the church at church you get your courage from one another Jesus made it his business to teach in the temple you should never think that you can do it alone and that you don't need no one for in that area that's when Satan steps in good luck isolating your self that's what the devil want you to do
🇻🇦🫡
Yeah, I want life altering advice from religious recruiting, selling, controlling con-men, dellusionalist in a pretend God ideology people, who don't have a clue about dealing with real life, or a degree in Psycology, or family counseling....telling me what to do!😮😅
😂WASHINGTON DC WELL THERES YOUR PROBLEMS RIGHT THERE THIS IS STRAIGHT UP BLASPHEMOUS
Oh get bent
The church has always had married priests, just not Roman priests. In the Eastern rites married priests have always existed. Peter was married, as were all the Apostles except for Paul. Now we see married Roman priests who were formerly Anglicans.
If Lbgt blessings are permitted I don't see why priests are prohibited from getting Married
The obvious answer is yes