I did a video like this about a year ago and no one watched it lol. Anyway, I agree with most of your points but I still stand on what I tell people. Don't get into this hobby thinking it's a way to invest money, get into because you love the hobby. But I also still want what i purchase to still be worth at least what I paid for it. Hard to sell a figure for the value it should be worth when you have people killing the value of that same figure looking for a quick sale. People like to blame these companies for the value of these figures dropping but people share in that blame as well.
Good video. Value word is taboo: Not really, I think it's more accurate to say it's taboo to collect mainly for the monetary value. Like you said, people collect for all sorts of reasons, and I don't think critics are referring to personal value (i.e. it reminds me of my dad/childhood etc.). I think they're pointing out that the monetary value should be kept at the bottom of the list of reasons for collecting. Value definition: You're absolutely right that the definition of value can be about money or personal reasons. One way you can know which influences a buyer more is by seeing how they respond to the collectible. If their satisfaction/desire for an item increases and decreases with what it can fetch in dollars, I think you have your answer. Market Value: I follow the idea that stimulus cheques->money to spend>more buying->increased production->money dries up->too much production->dead stock->. However, the reason people didn't buy that stock and waited for discounts was also because people want to spend the least amount of money they need to while still getting what they want. If something can be had for less, people will wait. I think it's a matter of financial efficiency. Once you move beyond dead stock, you just produce the statistically desired amount, which causes less dead stock going forward. If people know there are no more discounts, they'll start paying the asking price. I'm also not entirely sure that HT is producing less just to stir demand. They could just be producing enough to meet current market demand. Luxury items: Personally, I think this was the most problematic portion of your argument. It seems circular to say that X exists because X is perceived to be what it is. Once it ceases to be perceived as X, it will cease to exist. It seems to rely on the assumption that people will only buy the product if it's understood to be a luxury. However, earlier, you stated that people collect for all sorts of reasons. The group you're talking about seems to be the people that care more about the monetary value than the personal value. Like you said, they often liquidate their collections because it's seen to be a poor investment. I think that's what the critics are talking about in the first place. If you're the type of collector that's buying because you can turn a profit, you probably have your priorities out of order. In fact, if investment is what you're looking for, you should likely invest in something else more reliable. It's true that there are people that enjoy the scarcity, but I think it's a toxic part of the hobby because it relies on other people's misfortunes. It's basically schadenfreude... Personally, I don't care about the value of my HT. If I'm in a crisis, I'd sell them for whatever they could fetch because I'm supporting my family, paying my mortgage etc. I'm fully aware what these items cost, and that I may never get back what I paid. I didn't start collecting HT because I thought I could sell them one day, and I don't buy figures today because I might be able to make some money in the future. Frankly, I think it's a strange reason to get into a hobby. I'm also not convinced that the hobby wouldn't survive without having exclusivity. I think the market issues in collecting are the same market issues that are present in every industry. Supply should be close to what demand is to maintain price equilibrium. When you don't, you get price fluctuations etc. I don't think having artificial imbalance through scarcity is the solution to the collecting industry.
Excellent thoughts, I enjoyed reading! As to your point about luxury items, my point is simply that people have already devalued the brand and the market value of Hot Toys. As the titan of the industry, this is never a good thing. Even if they weren't in such a position, a simple evaluation of their position in the marketplace would show that the majority of collectors have embraced the notion that your product is not worth what you're asking for it. I doubt the retailers who are sitting on endless deadstock feel happy because collectors are getting discounts and are able to complete lines for cheaper than they otherwise would. Scarcity would indeed help solve this problem because it creates more of a need for people to commit via pre-order, pay attention to social pages, and stay engaged, generally. I think the notion you're referring to insofar as a collector who ONLY collects for value is a rarity. People sometimes like to debate in extremities and claim that a collector who cares about value ONLY collects for value and nothing else. The collecting process is much more complicated than that and often includes several layers of factors influencing a decision. People like to think it's X or Y influencing a purchasing decision, but usually it's X, Y, Z, A, B, C.
@@WillFoxificationlike the new Joker by Hot Toys for instance once sold out the price will rise! Yes it’s good for the person who owns it but for the person trying to buy it after it’s sold out might have to pay an extra $200-$400 dollars who knows 🤷♂️
@@WillFoxificationIt just depends on what you’re in the hobby for if it’s to make money YES exclusivity is what you want but if you’re in it to collect wonderfully crafted figures of characters you like that you can buy WITHOUT having to worry about scalpers price gauging then you want to be against exclusivity 💯
@@Onesixthhairsalon I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. It's not necessarily about making money, it's more so your purchase being an accurate reflection of what the market determines the item is actually worth
Great topic and loved the video essay format. We’ve cover topics like these many times on Scavengers, but kudos for you to have covered it very succinctly in 10 minutes. Look forward to more!
I completely understand where you're coming from, but I just don't and can't get behind the notion that these are investments. Would I want to get my money back? Absolutely. But am I aware and ok with the reality I may not? Yes. While I understand the question of what happens when a better version comes around and you can't sell...that will happen regardless of the market being saturated or not. The 2.0s always kill the value, and that therein lies the root cause that these are not and should not be considered investments. If people want to invest in something I suggest the stock market and real estate.
I think the term investment is not exactly form-fitting. Investment to me would imply the person seeks to make a profit. I think most collectors would be happy maintaining value something close to market, then the rarer figures go up in value. That way your luxury purchase feels more warranted,
For me "Hot Toys" have no real "monetary" value above $200. The ones I do get, its just to have something cool on a shelf to look at, not as an investment. I also dont think Hot Toys" are a "high end" collectable. While most of they time they look nice, they still are, for the most part made with cheap materials and mass produced. Thanks for this video and conversation.
Thanks bro! I would disagree on the high-end collectible part. I think Hot Toys and Sideshow would view these as high-end collectibles. If not, they shouldn't be charging 3-$500 for a 12 inch figure. Hot Toys has long been viewed as a name that is synonymous with quality, king of it in fact. That's nothing short of high-end.
@WillFoxification perception deception bro. Take any one of your basic hot toys figures and strip it down to the base body, and you will find that it's just the same generic mass-produced base body that you can buy for under $15 bucks on Flea-bay. Hot Toys are significantly marked up in order to fleece customers who reside outside of Asia. In fact most import action figures carry a hefty premium outside of Asia, but that doesn't make them "high end collectibles" Howard Chan has built a brand and has secured legitimate licensing agreements with mostly western IP holders. I can respect that fact, and as a consequence tolerate the additional costs that Hot Toys charges as the price of doing business with the East. But make no mistake about it, the prices Hot Toys charges are inflated significantly, and many 3rd party unlicensed companies produce an equal, if not better product for half the price. Hot Toys is a "premium" brand in the same way that Hasbro is a "premium" brand; big name, lots of overhead, inflated prices, and mediocre to average products. They aren't doing anything exceptional, but as a brand they are able to flood the market with projects and preorders and maintain a certain level of business
I totally agree . At the end of the day they are just toys. This coming from a person who loves toys of all kind and own more than 100 hot toys figure. Just get it if you like it and wanna own it. Not for an investment.
@@uncardedreviews9721 Interesting! I think they're doing something fairly exceptional if they've been able to consistently seize such a large share of the collectible market. Not only that, but many non-collectors know about them and how good they are. High-end is subjective, but I think most of the criteria are being met, generally.
If you wanna pay out of the booty hole for your figures after they sell out then keep pushing for exclusivity!!😂 But this collector here is NOT pushing for it!!😆
Wow! Couldn’t have said it better than myself, this really puts a better insight on my collection and future on what I’m adding to it. Thank you for making this video! Please create more content like this! 🙏🏻❤
I like your hot toys dissertation!! I have grown to enjoy the business side of collectibles, mostly out of curiosity and a fascination of how it reflects other markets.
Too late. I've seen behind the curtain and realized HT are not luxury items. They are mass produced highly overpriced toys and no amount of artifical scarcity cooked up by HT and sideshow will change that. I've begun purging my entire collection.
@@WillFoxification it's fine. I appreciate them for the artistic value that they have. I believe they are a great representation of characters but I just don't think they are worth the asking price. What I do appreciate the most is the community that has grown up around the figures 👍🏻
I do agree that they shouldn’t be mass purchased buy the seller but to be honest that’s the sellers fault! They should STUDY the demand for each piece and order accordingly! Such as Cad Bane ! If I have a 100 Cad Bane in stock I’m sure all will sell but 100 Team suit Tony ! Probably 20-30!💯
All companies have to order product ahead of time. They inherently have to guess what the market will be. What sideshow didnt anticipate was toys wonderland underxutti g them at every corner. They along with all other companies are now dealing with overstock because the war in Ukraine edges with all supply chains that companies had began to revise from COVID. If the Ukraine war hadn't happen , sideshow and the economy might have bounced back just fine. But Mr putan made sure to ruin It for everybody.
I think it's simply a matter of wishing to retain a moral sense of cleanliness, so to speak. When some believe they only buy these figures for the love of collecting with no other factors come into play, they may feel a sense of guilt when any other factor influences their decision making process.
Great video Will. Hopefully, this limitation will incentify me to better curate my collection. I realised, most of my collection are not necessarily the figure I desire, but they were just cheap - dead stock lingering around.
We already seen what happened with the PS5!! I couldn’t get one for store price till about 3 years! Now what if the PS5 was still selling like it’s exclusive? Do you think I would be able to get one at store price now ? NO! I would probably have to pay $1200-$1500 for one!!💯
Everything is basically exclusive now ANYWAYS now because Sideshow has FINALLY wised up and stopped ordering a million figures per character! It’s sideshow’s dumb fault for opening up the flood gates and letting all these figures flood the US market!!🤦♂️
It is my opinion (and thus I don't need to argue with anyone who disagrees; you're also entitled to your opinion) that the "problem" with ANY type of hobby collecting is the development of unhealthy habits based upon fear (FOMO), envy (why should they get it when I WANT it), greed (I WANT it all & will make MONEY off this), and arrogance (I'm BETTER than the rest of you because I HAVE this thing in my collection). If you are taking care of the things that REALLY matter (e.g. family, friends, bills, the front yard...OMG...don't talk to me about the effing yard @Ben Thomas 🤣) to maintain balance in your life and are into a hobby purely for the LOVE and FUN of it all, then there should be no "problem" - no matter what the markets do. I don't love a collectible more or less because of the perceived value others assess it over time. I love it because of what it represents/means to me. None of this stuff should be a "need" to make yourself feel at peace and happy. If being involved in this hobby is causing you emotional turmoil, stress, strife, and financial hardship, then this hobby is unhealthy for you. Time to take a hard look and make changes to improve things for yourself. Thank you for attending my "Keco Talk". 🙏🏽
@@WillFoxification Keep up the discussions Will! 👍🏾Even though we all don’t agree on the same things it’s good to get the community talking! Maybe some of these companies will read the comments and it’ll help them find that balance on selling figures that we all can agree upon!🤷♂️
We need to STOP pushing exclusivity!! The figures are ALREADY exclusive! Once they sell out that’s it unless they do a reissue and Hot Toys DOESN’T reissue everything!
Well besides the fact that I disagree with most of this, the part your not discussing is what happens when the hobby feels like an exclusive club? Meaning what happens when all of these limited figures are too difficult to get for most collectors and people start leaving the hobby in droves? A business without new and consistent customers dies. Long term value is not as important as sale volume and new customers which you lose with exclusive hard to acquire products
I think the last few years have shown that volume is not necessarily the most important predictor of success. I think the plethora of sales from Sideshow and virtually every other retailer sitting on mountains of deadstock indicate that. I'm not an expert on these realms, but realms like the sneaker game seem to be doing well with some exclusive releases, with an engaged community.
Fantastic video with valid points. This is the way collectors should perceive value in their collection. I think, at times, there is an overbearing perception of value to profit/ flip or other means. I don’t collect for value, but I sure as hell got a kick knowing my Mark 46 had a perceived high value on the secondary market & was deemed, to most, a “grail”. I feel the same about about an art print I have that is no’ 3 of 450 ! Just an essence of rarity gives such a sense of desirability & that’s the intriguing part to me. I don’t like to comment much (if at all) but love your content, Will 😁
All we are doing with pushing Exclusivity is running the price up for ourselves!! The companies are gonna make there money regardless because the IPs sell themselves!!💯
@@closviz I disagree! It’s gonna result in more scalpers RAISING the prices and make the pieces you want harder to get! The reason the market is flooded is Sideshows fault! Like I said if you order 100 Team suit Tony and there still sitting you should have tested the market first before ordering that many!💯
@@closviz some of us collectors KEEP forgetting Hot Toys IS NOT Neca! Those 1/4 Ninja Turtles would EASILY be worth $500-$1000 each but Neca keeps Reissuing them! Hot Toys does not and can not REISSUE EVERYTHING because they have too many different figures to make ! Therefore almost all figures are exclusive already unless they reissue them! If you REALLY want to push exclusivity push for Hot Toys to Stop reissuing figures but I personally don’t mind it as long as it’s improved!💯
@@closvizIts not our fault the market is flooded. Sideshow should have had shorter preorder windows years ago when they noticed stock sitting. Shorter preorder windows is good but Exclusivity is not in my opinion unless it’s on a Team Suit Tony type figure NOT a Joker or Anakin! High quality figures on these characters will ALWAYS hold value because the IP sells itself and like I said earlier all the figures have a limit anyways because Hot Toys doesn’t reissue everything like Neca does!
Prices will mostly rise alongside an increase in both quality and exclusivity. InArt already showed collectors are willing to pay more for quality, there's no going back now
@@WillFoxification I think we as collectors should keep speaking out for companies to hold up their part to provide quality! If we’re gonna be paying more! Like that rooted Anakin NEEDS to have real leather parts NOT faux leather! If we DONT call it out now there just gonna produce them with the faux leather! Actually let me message Hot Toys right now!! 🤔 Just a sec!
Unpopular take, but I think that the obsession over maintaining/increasing the "value" of "collectibles" is the most toxic aspect of this hobby, especially when it comes to buying Hot Toys products. What is the real value? What are hot toys really worth? If a company has to drive demand using tactics like forced scarcity, exclusivity and limiting quantities, then the underlying product is probably not really all that valuable. If a company produces a quality product, customers will seek them out and drive consumer demand in both the primary and secondary markets. By creating an atmosphere of FOMO, all hot toys is doing is feeding the parasites, profiteers and scalpers, while simultaneously irritating and alienating your core audience, and the people who are genuinely excited about seeing their favorite characters represented in 1/6 scale, but now they have to pay through the nose for the "privilege" of acquiring the product. Scrrew that mess 👎 I'm not going to fight the bots for an opportunity to spend money with a company whose goal should be to reach the largest number of customers in order to ensure that their business thrives. Best way to lose loyal customers is to make it so difficult to get your products that they either find another hobby or they seek out other vendors who actually want to sell their products to satisfy their customers demands
Completely agree with you. This video just sounds like a cry to hold onto the “exclusives club membership”. The market changes, so now there are more people collecting figures than there were some years ago. This is a good thing for the business because, even though the value of figures is less than previously, the demand is greater. That’s just the law of supply and demand. By creating false scarcity, while it does increased the FOMO factor, it also pisses off current and potential customers. Of course, there needs to be a balance, so I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be some exclusivity factor. However, we shouldn’t be promoting more exclusivity on an already exclusive market. You also have to factor in that, as time passes, it gets easier and easier for HT to make figures, which in turn makes it cheaper for them to make. That’s another factor that makes it possible for HT and their distributors to still make money even if they sell figures at a “discount”.
@@SonarHD I think there's reasons creating more scarcity will ultimately be more beneficial to the hobby. The most important probably being increased value to the brand, the product, and social presence. The sneaker industry and other exclusive avenues seem to be thriving with some exclusive products, not sure why Hot Toys couldn't offer both.
@@WillFoxification I’m fine with some of their products being exclusives, but too much exclusivity is only good for HT, their partners and those who collect for money, rather than for the love of collecting. Like I mentioned before, there are more people collecting these days than back 10 years ago, so the demand is greater, which increases the amount of figures being made. This is great for us collectors because, not only are we able to purchase the figures we want, but they end up being cheaper to buy. Competition is another factor that helps the consumers. When the airline industry got started, tickets were unaffordable to most people, and after becoming ubiquitous, now anyone can afford to fly pretty much anywhere they want. The same happened with cars, computers, mobile phones, etc. At some point, as long as there’s demand for it, the prices will go down. As long as the quality is maintained, I don’t see a problem with that (unless you’re just thinking about the resell value of the figures, which means you are either buying for the sake of buying, later regretting your purchase, or you’re buying to make a buck). ANYTHING you buy loses it’s original value as soon as you use it, and that’s how it should be.
How much they pay you for this infomercial? My recently deceased friend "Mike" put over ten thousad dollars into a NASCAR diecast collection, then his kids sold them all for less than a couple grand, to help pay for his burial.
@@WillFoxification Thanks guy. I kept telling him he should collect them just cause he liked them, but he was convinced they would get more valuable as time went by. Again thank you : )
@willfoxification I would like to see a video on whether “you guys” (UA-camrs) are responsible for Hot Toys price decline. A lot of collectors come to you guys for information on these figures and when N-art came out a lot of you guys would describe it as premium as if hot toys is not premium figure and compared the two . I think that drove down prices a bit because before in art myself included considered hot toys very premium . Also, frequently you give your opinions on the figures announced I think that effects the sales because some of the things you guys point out, other buyers would not notice like maybe the head sculpt for Loki. A casual buyer may not notice that as much As UA-camrs. but on the flipside, you guys also sell the hype for certain figures when they are cool like the new Spider-Man or carnage.
Certain UA-camrs feed the addiction, other speak reasonable about budgets and curation collections. I like the latter. Companies over buy because they have to make guesses about the market months ahead of product coming in. The while world did the same as sideshow. I wrstock and discounts are abound now because of low demand. But soon it will turn around. Manufactures have ordered low amounts of raw materials tk produce because of low orders. Soon there will be a shortage along with high price. (At least in some In dustries)
@@icec1628 I think this could be worth exploring. I think people will always have their favorite people to listen to, so it may interesting to speculate the impact. Likely more questions than answers, though lol!
I'm sure this will be well received and civil discussions will be had
I'm hoping so 😅
I can picture in my head all the calm, collected and well Informed comments that will be made.😂
Best comment ever!
I was hoping the spicy uncivilized inner demon of @KeCoCollects would make an appearance and make even more people mad 😂
@@SgtSalCollects that's tomorrow
**Chat GPT was used to write this entry.
Maybe I shoulda have, woulda taken less time lol
very well articulated, couldnt agree more
Thanks so much!
Sideshow jack up the price anyway from the hk price. They can stand to cut 20%.
I think this is due to importation, but not sure
You'll care about value if you ever have to sell something.
100%
Great video! Very well presented and 100% aligned
Thanks, Chris!
Very well resumed, the situation is changing and we must adapt to it.
Thanks for this valuables tips you gave.
Greetings !!!
thanks so much!
I did a video like this about a year ago and no one watched it lol. Anyway, I agree with most of your points but I still stand on what I tell people. Don't get into this hobby thinking it's a way to invest money, get into because you love the hobby. But I also still want what i purchase to still be worth at least what I paid for it. Hard to sell a figure for the value it should be worth when you have people killing the value of that same figure looking for a quick sale. People like to blame these companies for the value of these figures dropping but people share in that blame as well.
100% bro. I'm hoping people watch your vid you put work into!
Great video, loved all the footage!
Thanks bro!
Good video.
Value word is taboo: Not really, I think it's more accurate to say it's taboo to collect mainly for the monetary value. Like you said, people collect for all sorts of reasons, and I don't think critics are referring to personal value (i.e. it reminds me of my dad/childhood etc.). I think they're pointing out that the monetary value should be kept at the bottom of the list of reasons for collecting.
Value definition: You're absolutely right that the definition of value can be about money or personal reasons. One way you can know which influences a buyer more is by seeing how they respond to the collectible. If their satisfaction/desire for an item increases and decreases with what it can fetch in dollars, I think you have your answer.
Market Value: I follow the idea that stimulus cheques->money to spend>more buying->increased production->money dries up->too much production->dead stock->. However, the reason people didn't buy that stock and waited for discounts was also because people want to spend the least amount of money they need to while still getting what they want. If something can be had for less, people will wait. I think it's a matter of financial efficiency. Once you move beyond dead stock, you just produce the statistically desired amount, which causes less dead stock going forward. If people know there are no more discounts, they'll start paying the asking price. I'm also not entirely sure that HT is producing less just to stir demand. They could just be producing enough to meet current market demand.
Luxury items: Personally, I think this was the most problematic portion of your argument. It seems circular to say that X exists because X is perceived to be what it is. Once it ceases to be perceived as X, it will cease to exist. It seems to rely on the assumption that people will only buy the product if it's understood to be a luxury. However, earlier, you stated that people collect for all sorts of reasons. The group you're talking about seems to be the people that care more about the monetary value than the personal value. Like you said, they often liquidate their collections because it's seen to be a poor investment. I think that's what the critics are talking about in the first place. If you're the type of collector that's buying because you can turn a profit, you probably have your priorities out of order. In fact, if investment is what you're looking for, you should likely invest in something else more reliable. It's true that there are people that enjoy the scarcity, but I think it's a toxic part of the hobby because it relies on other people's misfortunes. It's basically schadenfreude...
Personally, I don't care about the value of my HT. If I'm in a crisis, I'd sell them for whatever they could fetch because I'm supporting my family, paying my mortgage etc. I'm fully aware what these items cost, and that I may never get back what I paid. I didn't start collecting HT because I thought I could sell them one day, and I don't buy figures today because I might be able to make some money in the future. Frankly, I think it's a strange reason to get into a hobby. I'm also not convinced that the hobby wouldn't survive without having exclusivity. I think the market issues in collecting are the same market issues that are present in every industry. Supply should be close to what demand is to maintain price equilibrium. When you don't, you get price fluctuations etc. I don't think having artificial imbalance through scarcity is the solution to the collecting industry.
Excellent thoughts, I enjoyed reading!
As to your point about luxury items, my point is simply that people have already devalued the brand and the market value of Hot Toys. As the titan of the industry, this is never a good thing. Even if they weren't in such a position, a simple evaluation of their position in the marketplace would show that the majority of collectors have embraced the notion that your product is not worth what you're asking for it. I doubt the retailers who are sitting on endless deadstock feel happy because collectors are getting discounts and are able to complete lines for cheaper than they otherwise would.
Scarcity would indeed help solve this problem because it creates more of a need for people to commit via pre-order, pay attention to social pages, and stay engaged, generally. I think the notion you're referring to insofar as a collector who ONLY collects for value is a rarity. People sometimes like to debate in extremities and claim that a collector who cares about value ONLY collects for value and nothing else. The collecting process is much more complicated than that and often includes several layers of factors influencing a decision. People like to think it's X or Y influencing a purchasing decision, but usually it's X, Y, Z, A, B, C.
Awesome segment!
Thank you, Alvin!
also we make it HARDER for our own selves to get pieces that we want when there is LIMITED pieces!!
I think your definition of limited is questionable. These pieces have not at all been exclusive for the last 2-3 years...
I’m saying once a lot of pieces go exclusive it will be.
@@WillFoxificationlike the new Joker by Hot Toys for instance once sold out the price will rise! Yes it’s good for the person who owns it but for the person trying to buy it after it’s sold out might have to pay an extra $200-$400 dollars who knows 🤷♂️
@@WillFoxificationIt just depends on what you’re in the hobby for if it’s to make money YES exclusivity is what you want but if you’re in it to collect wonderfully crafted figures of characters you like that you can buy WITHOUT having to worry about scalpers price gauging then you want to be against exclusivity 💯
@@Onesixthhairsalon I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. It's not necessarily about making money, it's more so your purchase being an accurate reflection of what the market determines the item is actually worth
Ivan Drago, if the hobby dies, it dies . 😂😂😂 I'm here just for the entertainment
lol! Classic!
Great video! Love the food for thought and forced me to reflect a little as well. Also crispy looking collection bud 🔥
Thanks, Mr. Thomas! Appreciate you as always bro.
Great topic and loved the video essay format. We’ve cover topics like these many times on Scavengers, but kudos for you to have covered it very succinctly in 10 minutes. Look forward to more!
Thanks bro! Hoping to do more!
What an outstanding and well done video, Will! Great job 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
Thanks bro! Appreciate that.
I completely understand where you're coming from, but I just don't and can't get behind the notion that these are investments. Would I want to get my money back? Absolutely. But am I aware and ok with the reality I may not? Yes. While I understand the question of what happens when a better version comes around and you can't sell...that will happen regardless of the market being saturated or not. The 2.0s always kill the value, and that therein lies the root cause that these are not and should not be considered investments. If people want to invest in something I suggest the stock market and real estate.
I think the term investment is not exactly form-fitting. Investment to me would imply the person seeks to make a profit. I think most collectors would be happy maintaining value something close to market, then the rarer figures go up in value. That way your luxury purchase feels more warranted,
For me "Hot Toys" have no real "monetary" value above $200. The ones I do get, its just to have something cool on a shelf to look at, not as an investment. I also dont think Hot Toys" are a "high end" collectable. While most of they time they look nice, they still are, for the most part made with cheap materials and mass produced. Thanks for this video and conversation.
👏👏👏💯
Thanks bro! I would disagree on the high-end collectible part. I think Hot Toys and Sideshow would view these as high-end collectibles. If not, they shouldn't be charging 3-$500 for a 12 inch figure. Hot Toys has long been viewed as a name that is synonymous with quality, king of it in fact. That's nothing short of high-end.
@WillFoxification perception deception bro. Take any one of your basic hot toys figures and strip it down to the base body, and you will find that it's just the same generic mass-produced base body that you can buy for under $15 bucks on Flea-bay. Hot Toys are significantly marked up in order to fleece customers who reside outside of Asia. In fact most import action figures carry a hefty premium outside of Asia, but that doesn't make them "high end collectibles" Howard Chan has built a brand and has secured legitimate licensing agreements with mostly western IP holders. I can respect that fact, and as a consequence tolerate the additional costs that Hot Toys charges as the price of doing business with the East. But make no mistake about it, the prices Hot Toys charges are inflated significantly, and many 3rd party unlicensed companies produce an equal, if not better product for half the price. Hot Toys is a "premium" brand in the same way that Hasbro is a "premium" brand; big name, lots of overhead, inflated prices, and mediocre to average products. They aren't doing anything exceptional, but as a brand they are able to flood the market with projects and preorders and maintain a certain level of business
I totally agree . At the end of the day they are just toys. This coming from a person who loves toys of all kind and own more than 100 hot toys figure. Just get it if you like it and wanna own it. Not for an investment.
@@uncardedreviews9721 Interesting! I think they're doing something fairly exceptional if they've been able to consistently seize such a large share of the collectible market. Not only that, but many non-collectors know about them and how good they are. High-end is subjective, but I think most of the criteria are being met, generally.
Awesome video Will keep them coming
Thanks bro!
Very well said Will, totally agree with you.
Thanks SC!
I really like this video essay format from you! Hope we get many more.
Thanks, Marco the ladies man!
If you wanna pay out of the booty hole for your figures after they sell out then keep pushing for exclusivity!!😂
But this collector here is NOT pushing for it!!😆
booty hole lol
Wow! Couldn’t have said it better than myself, this really puts a better insight on my collection and future on what I’m adding to it. Thank you for making this video! Please create more content like this! 🙏🏻❤
Thanks bro! I will if people want it!
Damn you made some excellent points Will! 👏
Thank you! I tried to be as direct as I could be!
Totally with you.
Thanks bro!
Yeah let’s not make it harder on ourselves by pushing exclusivity!!
Healthier, not harder
Brilliantly conveyed Will. More people need to see this video
Thanks bro!
I like your hot toys dissertation!! I have grown to enjoy the business side of collectibles, mostly out of curiosity and a fascination of how it reflects other markets.
Thanks, Johnny! I like it too
Too late. I've seen behind the curtain and realized HT are not luxury items. They are mass produced highly overpriced toys and no amount of artifical scarcity cooked up by HT and sideshow will change that. I've begun purging my entire collection.
damn, that's sad!
@@WillFoxification it's fine. I appreciate them for the artistic value that they have. I believe they are a great representation of characters but I just don't think they are worth the asking price. What I do appreciate the most is the community that has grown up around the figures 👍🏻
I do agree that they shouldn’t be mass purchased buy the seller but to be honest that’s the sellers fault! They should STUDY the demand for each piece and order accordingly! Such as Cad Bane ! If I have a 100 Cad Bane in stock I’m sure all will sell but 100 Team suit Tony ! Probably 20-30!💯
All companies have to order product ahead of time. They inherently have to guess what the market will be. What sideshow didnt anticipate was toys wonderland underxutti g them at every corner. They along with all other companies are now dealing with overstock because the war in Ukraine edges with all supply chains that companies had began to revise from COVID. If the Ukraine war hadn't happen , sideshow and the economy might have bounced back just fine. But Mr putan made sure to ruin It for everybody.
Team suit Tony = grail
If people believe they would still buy these toys at MSRP if they had no "value" long term, they are fooling themselves
I think it's simply a matter of wishing to retain a moral sense of cleanliness, so to speak. When some believe they only buy these figures for the love of collecting with no other factors come into play, they may feel a sense of guilt when any other factor influences their decision making process.
This is the presentation of the year! Great points, especially at the end about how value determines if this hobby survives
Thanks, bro! Glad you enjoyed it!
Cad bane is basically Exclusive !!
I had to pay about $500 for mine since he’s waitlisted in the USA
Not sure how it works overseas, but wasn't Cad Bane up for PO for like a year prior to his waitlisting?
Great video Will. Hopefully, this limitation will incentify me to better curate my collection. I realised, most of my collection are not necessarily the figure I desire, but they were just cheap - dead stock lingering around.
It happens to us all over time!
We already seen what happened with the PS5!! I couldn’t get one for store price till about 3 years! Now what if the PS5 was still selling like it’s exclusive? Do you think I would be able to get one at store price now ? NO! I would probably have to pay $1200-$1500 for one!!💯
I don't think this will be a ps5 situation as not everyone will or needs to be exclusive. Smaller batches, yes, but you'll have your chance to buy.
@@WillFoxification I definitely hope not brother! 😆
Everything is basically exclusive now ANYWAYS now because Sideshow has FINALLY wised up and stopped ordering a million figures per character!
It’s sideshow’s dumb fault for opening up the flood gates and letting all these figures flood the US market!!🤦♂️
That's not necessarily exclusive, that's just smaller volume.
It is my opinion (and thus I don't need to argue with anyone who disagrees; you're also entitled to your opinion) that the "problem" with ANY type of hobby collecting is the development of unhealthy habits based upon fear (FOMO), envy (why should they get it when I WANT it), greed (I WANT it all & will make MONEY off this), and arrogance (I'm BETTER than the rest of you because I HAVE this thing in my collection). If you are taking care of the things that REALLY matter (e.g. family, friends, bills, the front yard...OMG...don't talk to me about the effing yard @Ben Thomas 🤣) to maintain balance in your life and are into a hobby purely for the LOVE and FUN of it all, then there should be no "problem" - no matter what the markets do. I don't love a collectible more or less because of the perceived value others assess it over time. I love it because of what it represents/means to me. None of this stuff should be a "need" to make yourself feel at peace and happy. If being involved in this hobby is causing you emotional turmoil, stress, strife, and financial hardship, then this hobby is unhealthy for you. Time to take a hard look and make changes to improve things for yourself. Thank you for attending my "Keco Talk". 🙏🏽
lol! Classic Keco talk!
VERY good points. I'll collect my thoughts before I offer a proper response. Until then...🍿lol
Hahha thanks bro!
My apologies for this Super long rant Willfoxification and everyone else! All this EXCLUSIVITY talk gets my britches in an uproar!!😆
Hahha bro, it's all good! I like the passion!
@@WillFoxification Keep up the discussions Will! 👍🏾Even though we all don’t agree on the same things it’s good to get the community talking! Maybe some of these companies will read the comments and it’ll help them find that balance on selling figures that we all can agree upon!🤷♂️
Ummm, sooo, you're saying what ,again..exactly there? I should NOT have smoked before watching this one 😂🤔
stay off the weeeeeddddduh
We need to STOP pushing exclusivity!! The figures are ALREADY exclusive! Once they sell out that’s it unless they do a reissue and Hot Toys DOESN’T reissue everything!
Unfortunately, I think we need precisely the opposite of what you're suggesting to retain a healthy collecting ecosystem.
@dbg5081 Good points!
Well besides the fact that I disagree with most of this, the part your not discussing is what happens when the hobby feels like an exclusive club? Meaning what happens when all of these limited figures are too difficult to get for most collectors and people start leaving the hobby in droves? A business without new and consistent customers dies. Long term value is not as important as sale volume and new customers which you lose with exclusive hard to acquire products
I think the last few years have shown that volume is not necessarily the most important predictor of success. I think the plethora of sales from Sideshow and virtually every other retailer sitting on mountains of deadstock indicate that. I'm not an expert on these realms, but realms like the sneaker game seem to be doing well with some exclusive releases, with an engaged community.
Fantastic video with valid points. This is the way collectors should perceive value in their collection. I think, at times, there is an overbearing perception of value to profit/ flip or other means. I don’t collect for value, but I sure as hell got a kick knowing my Mark 46 had a perceived high value on the secondary market & was deemed, to most, a “grail”. I feel the same about about an art print I have that is no’ 3 of 450 ! Just an essence of rarity gives such a sense of desirability & that’s the intriguing part to me.
I don’t like to comment much (if at all) but love your content, Will 😁
Thanks, bro! Yeah, I think sometimes people mistakenly conflate caring about value with the desire to flip figures and make a profit consistently.
Exactly. Post it again for the slow kids in the back.
I just want to make sure people understand the situation!
All we are doing with pushing Exclusivity is running the price up for ourselves!! The companies are gonna make there money regardless because the IPs sell themselves!!💯
@@closviz I disagree! It’s gonna result in more scalpers RAISING the prices and make the pieces you want harder to get! The reason the market is flooded is Sideshows fault! Like I said if you order 100 Team suit Tony and there still sitting you should have tested the market first before ordering that many!💯
@@closviz some of us collectors KEEP forgetting Hot Toys IS NOT Neca! Those 1/4 Ninja Turtles would EASILY be worth $500-$1000 each but Neca keeps Reissuing them! Hot Toys does not and can not REISSUE EVERYTHING because they have too many different figures to make ! Therefore almost all figures are exclusive already unless they reissue them! If you REALLY want to push exclusivity push for Hot Toys to Stop reissuing figures but I personally don’t mind it as long as it’s improved!💯
@@closvizIts not our fault the market is flooded. Sideshow should have had shorter preorder windows years ago when they noticed stock sitting. Shorter preorder windows is good but Exclusivity is not in my opinion unless it’s on a Team Suit Tony type figure NOT a Joker or Anakin! High quality figures on these characters will ALWAYS hold value because the IP sells itself and like I said earlier all the figures have a limit anyways because Hot Toys doesn’t reissue everything like Neca does!
Prices will mostly rise alongside an increase in both quality and exclusivity. InArt already showed collectors are willing to pay more for quality, there's no going back now
@@WillFoxification I think we as collectors should keep speaking out for companies to hold up their part to provide quality! If we’re gonna be paying more! Like that rooted Anakin NEEDS to have real leather parts NOT faux leather! If we DONT call it out now there just gonna produce them with the faux leather! Actually let me message Hot Toys right now!! 🤔 Just a sec!
Unpopular take, but I think that the obsession over maintaining/increasing the "value" of "collectibles" is the most toxic aspect of this hobby, especially when it comes to buying Hot Toys products. What is the real value? What are hot toys really worth? If a company has to drive demand using tactics like forced scarcity, exclusivity and limiting quantities, then the underlying product is probably not really all that valuable. If a company produces a quality product, customers will seek them out and drive consumer demand in both the primary and secondary markets. By creating an atmosphere of FOMO, all hot toys is doing is feeding the parasites, profiteers and scalpers, while simultaneously irritating and alienating your core audience, and the people who are genuinely excited about seeing their favorite characters represented in 1/6 scale, but now they have to pay through the nose for the "privilege" of acquiring the product. Scrrew that mess 👎 I'm not going to fight the bots for an opportunity to spend money with a company whose goal should be to reach the largest number of customers in order to ensure that their business thrives. Best way to lose loyal customers is to make it so difficult to get your products that they either find another hobby or they seek out other vendors who actually want to sell their products to satisfy their customers demands
Completely agree with you. This video just sounds like a cry to hold onto the “exclusives club membership”. The market changes, so now there are more people collecting figures than there were some years ago. This is a good thing for the business because, even though the value of figures is less than previously, the demand is greater. That’s just the law of supply and demand.
By creating false scarcity, while it does increased the FOMO factor, it also pisses off current and potential customers. Of course, there needs to be a balance, so I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be some exclusivity factor. However, we shouldn’t be promoting more exclusivity on an already exclusive market. You also have to factor in that, as time passes, it gets easier and easier for HT to make figures, which in turn makes it cheaper for them to make. That’s another factor that makes it possible for HT and their distributors to still make money even if they sell figures at a “discount”.
@@SonarHD I think there's reasons creating more scarcity will ultimately be more beneficial to the hobby. The most important probably being increased value to the brand, the product, and social presence. The sneaker industry and other exclusive avenues seem to be thriving with some exclusive products, not sure why Hot Toys couldn't offer both.
@@WillFoxification I’m fine with some of their products being exclusives, but too much exclusivity is only good for HT, their partners and those who collect for money, rather than for the love of collecting. Like I mentioned before, there are more people collecting these days than back 10 years ago, so the demand is greater, which increases the amount of figures being made. This is great for us collectors because, not only are we able to purchase the figures we want, but they end up being cheaper to buy. Competition is another factor that helps the consumers.
When the airline industry got started, tickets were unaffordable to most people, and after becoming ubiquitous, now anyone can afford to fly pretty much anywhere they want. The same happened with cars, computers, mobile phones, etc. At some point, as long as there’s demand for it, the prices will go down. As long as the quality is maintained, I don’t see a problem with that (unless you’re just thinking about the resell value of the figures, which means you are either buying for the sake of buying, later regretting your purchase, or you’re buying to make a buck). ANYTHING you buy loses it’s original value as soon as you use it, and that’s how it should be.
How much they pay you for this infomercial? My recently deceased friend "Mike" put over ten thousad dollars into a NASCAR diecast collection, then his kids sold them all for less than a couple grand, to help pay for his burial.
Hmm... I think you're speculating that Hot Toys is paying me. I wish that were true, but it's not, unfortunately.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
Maybe those cars meant a lot to your friend. Stop sounding so grouchy!
@@WillFoxification Thanks guy. I kept telling him he should collect them just cause he liked them, but he was convinced they would get more valuable as time went by. Again thank you : )
@@batemanlife Nah, the dealers kept talking him into how valuable they would be someday. Also, kindly f**k off.
@@ronniepatterson2827 No problem! To each their own indeed.
@willfoxification I would like to see a video on whether “you guys” (UA-camrs) are responsible for Hot Toys price decline. A lot of collectors come to you guys for information on these figures and when N-art came out a lot of you guys would describe it as premium as if hot toys is not premium figure and compared the two . I think that drove down prices a bit because before in art myself included considered hot toys very premium . Also, frequently you give your opinions on the figures announced I think that effects the sales because some of the things you guys point out, other buyers would not notice like maybe the head sculpt for Loki. A casual buyer may not notice that as much As UA-camrs. but on the flipside, you guys also sell the hype for certain figures when they are cool like the new Spider-Man or carnage.
This is an excellent idea! I could speculate!
Certain UA-camrs feed the addiction, other speak reasonable about budgets and curation collections. I like the latter. Companies over buy because they have to make guesses about the market months ahead of product coming in. The while world did the same as sideshow. I wrstock and discounts are abound now because of low demand. But soon it will turn around. Manufactures have ordered low amounts of raw materials tk produce because of low orders. Soon there will be a shortage along with high price. (At least in some In dustries)
@@johnyrico4440 right I can see that too I’m mainly just speculating. I personally love hearing what the UA-camrs have to say about collecting
@@icec1628 I think this could be worth exploring. I think people will always have their favorite people to listen to, so it may interesting to speculate the impact. Likely more questions than answers, though lol!