@@tomyhr501 Yeah, I created this channel for english videos, the other one is only for german. No, you don't have pure mechanical drive at 8km/h in first range, but the best efficiency. In a nutshell: Axial piston pumps have their highest efficiency fully swung out. They reach this swivel angle in drive range one at about 8km/h, in range two at about 12-14km/h. If you accelerate further, a larger mechanical part is added, but the efficiency of the hydraulic part decreases significantly more than that of the mechanical part increases. The hydropumps and -motors are therefore designed precisely for this speed range.. if this makes sense. You only drive purely mechanically at maximum speed.
something people don't understand: in forward the vario gearbox's hydrostatic group only act as a mean to brake the hollow gear which mean it's efficiency is pretty much irrelevant since all we want from it is to define the gear ratio of the whole gearbox by defining the hollow gear's speed. you can turn anny 4x4 with a central diff to "vario ish" cvt by removing the rear drive shaft, puting it in any gear the rear output of the transfer case will spin freely until you start puling at the handbrake putting resistance on the rear output of the transfer case forcing the power to the front wheels that's how the vario works without burning your park brake using hydraulics instead.
Effeciency is still very much important , no matter if you use the pump for powering up or braking down. Doesn' t matter. If it takes to much power to act as a brake, the transmissions effeciency will be ruined also.
@@bartdereu that's where it gets tricky, how much the engine consume more as the hydraulics are worse and dissipate more through heat, someone at fendt's R&D surely know i don't. what i know is that the gearbox is cooled at 50°C instead of 90 on most tractors and easily even without a dedicated cooling circuit on recent models, to use it daily i can tell it was day and night compared to a semi power-shift even cold. And there is the DLG institute of our pragmatic German neighbours that did an extensive study of the European middle-sized range of tractors from all the big name brand 100 to 300+hp maybe even 400. Then fendt tractors were either first or on exact equality first with cnh on one model and only the 514 or 516 was beaten by another cvt. The self proclaimed revolution that rivals with fully mechanical transmission that is the direct drive from deere was part of the studies, it would have been dead last if not for the same big promises brand's autopower that happen to be even worse. no power shifts or semi P.S. beats the leading CVTs meaning those transmissions are up there between the good old mechanical and the best powershifts. Yes there are losses like any gearbox, but we are nowhere near an hydrostatic transmission in term of losses, despite what the presence of those component might get people to think.
@flo__60 true, many people say "hydrostatic is inefficient so 4 gear CVTs are more efficient" which is true for regular CVTs but not for the Vario because the pump is coupled to the ring gear instead of the input shaft, like other CVTs
@@Sjanzo the engine drive the satellites and the hydrostatic let go just enough to obtain the desired gear ratio it could be a set of brakes... but hydrostatic gives back with the motor that it takes with the pump acting as a brake. when fendt tested the vario transmission in polland they ploughed fields with a 926 turbomatic (semi power-shift) and a 926 fitted with the prototype gearbox, the vario testbed consumed noticeably less fuel (cant remember the numbers but it was in the thousands of litter over the testing season) that's all we need is to know.
So while I do understand the benefits ov cvt/vario in field work or around the yard, I'd like to understand why do they get progressively slower when hauling load up the hill to the point where even lower powered tractors with other transmissions, and espl manuals, leave cvt/vario far behind? Also, what's vario like in downhill scenario where engine braking is important not to overheat the brakes? And why aren't hgv's using this type of transmission?
What you talk about with 'VarioDrive'. That's only possible with the 1000 series and the new 900 series. The older series 900 and 800 (ML200 and ML260) does have 2 oil engines in the vario but they are always connected. The new vario, for the newer 1000 and 900series (ML400), have the 2 oil engines independed and when wanted connected as shown in the video. How I know you probably think.. I work as a Vario rebuilder, And I've seen all the kinds of Vario there are. (ML75/ ML90/ ML130/ ML160/ ML180/ ML200 (first edition for the 900 vario favorite) the now used ML200/ ML260 and the ML400 that is used in the new 900 series and in the 1000 series. Thanks for reading 🚜
Great video! I study a lot about CVT transmission in modern tractors and compare them. Very interesting material!😊
Superb video, grats.
"Can you english please!"
Good job, Rene!
Good explanation thank you very much
Thanks for the English version 😎 👍🏼👍🏼
Super video again, great explained! On english is great ;-) Thank you!
Cheers mate!
@@wengelewski At 8 km/h in first range, I have pure mechanical drive? I didnt know that. You have two accounts here.
@@tomyhr501 Yeah, I created this channel for english videos, the other one is only for german.
No, you don't have pure mechanical drive at 8km/h in first range, but the best efficiency. In a nutshell: Axial piston pumps have their highest efficiency fully swung out. They reach this swivel angle in drive range one at about 8km/h, in range two at about 12-14km/h. If you accelerate further, a larger mechanical part is added, but the efficiency of the hydraulic part decreases significantly more than that of the mechanical part increases. The hydropumps and -motors are therefore designed precisely for this speed range.. if this makes sense. You only drive purely mechanically at maximum speed.
What is the function of oil pumps? To cancel the peripheral speed of the gearbox gears to engage a higher or lower gear?
something people don't understand: in forward the vario gearbox's hydrostatic group only act as a mean to brake the hollow gear which mean it's efficiency is pretty much irrelevant since all we want from it is to define the gear ratio of the whole gearbox by defining the hollow gear's speed.
you can turn anny 4x4 with a central diff to "vario ish" cvt by removing the rear drive shaft, puting it in any gear the rear output of the transfer case will spin freely until you start puling at the handbrake putting resistance on the rear output of the transfer case forcing the power to the front wheels that's how the vario works without burning your park brake using hydraulics instead.
Effeciency is still very much important , no matter if you use the pump for powering up or braking down. Doesn' t matter. If it takes to much power to act as a brake, the transmissions effeciency will be ruined also.
@@bartdereu that's where it gets tricky, how much the engine consume more as the hydraulics are worse and dissipate more through heat, someone at fendt's R&D surely know i don't. what i know is that the gearbox is cooled at 50°C instead of 90 on most tractors and easily even without a dedicated cooling circuit on recent models, to use it daily i can tell it was day and night compared to a semi power-shift even cold. And there is the DLG institute of our pragmatic German neighbours that did an extensive study of the European middle-sized range of tractors from all the big name brand 100 to 300+hp maybe even 400.
Then fendt tractors were either first or on exact equality first with cnh on one model and only the 514 or 516 was beaten by another cvt.
The self proclaimed revolution that rivals with fully mechanical transmission that is the direct drive from deere was part of the studies, it would have been dead last if not for the same big promises brand's autopower that happen to be even worse.
no power shifts or semi P.S. beats the leading CVTs meaning those transmissions are up there between the good old mechanical and the best powershifts. Yes there are losses like any gearbox, but we are nowhere near an hydrostatic transmission in term of losses, despite what the presence of those component might get people to think.
Key difference would be VARIO type hydro-mechanical transmissions are regenerative.
@flo__60 true, many people say "hydrostatic is inefficient so 4 gear CVTs are more efficient" which is true for regular CVTs but not for the Vario because the pump is coupled to the ring gear instead of the input shaft, like other CVTs
@@Sjanzo the engine drive the satellites and the hydrostatic let go just enough to obtain the desired gear ratio it could be a set of brakes... but hydrostatic gives back with the motor that it takes with the pump acting as a brake. when fendt tested the vario transmission in polland they ploughed fields with a 926 turbomatic (semi power-shift) and a 926 fitted with the prototype gearbox, the vario testbed consumed noticeably less fuel (cant remember the numbers but it was in the thousands of litter over the testing season) that's all we need is to know.
enhorabuena por el video desde TractorPasion
Englisch auch richtig gut! musste jetzt doch mal nachschauen aufgrund Deines subtilen Hinweises drüben ;-)
Well done :)
So while I do understand the benefits ov cvt/vario in field work or around the yard, I'd like to understand why do they get progressively slower when hauling load up the hill to the point where even lower powered tractors with other transmissions, and espl manuals, leave cvt/vario far behind?
Also, what's vario like in downhill scenario where engine braking is important not to overheat the brakes?
And why aren't hgv's using this type of transmission?
didnt understand nothing, but it looks very interesting
What you talk about with 'VarioDrive'. That's only possible with the 1000 series and the new 900 series. The older series 900 and 800 (ML200 and ML260) does have 2 oil engines in the vario but they are always connected. The new vario, for the newer 1000 and 900series (ML400), have the 2 oil engines independed and when wanted connected as shown in the video. How I know you probably think.. I work as a Vario rebuilder, And I've seen all the kinds of Vario there are. (ML75/ ML90/ ML130/ ML160/ ML180/ ML200 (first edition for the 900 vario favorite) the now used ML200/ ML260 and the ML400 that is used in the new 900 series and in the 1000 series.
Thanks for reading 🚜
Is there a real, actual video showing how the hydraulic pump and motors swinging out and in?
Dachte erst hier will wer einen fake acc von dir machen. War aber dann voll erschrocken😂 woher kannst du so gut Englisch?
👍🏻🤣 Keine Ahnung..üben🤷🏼♂️😅
@@wengelewski Ich gebe meins bestes😂
I didn't understand any of it. All I know is that I want it to work on both my tractors when I need to use them.