Great write up and demonstration of the circuits. As always i appreciate your content and am honored that you and your team find value in something I made! Thankyou Dev.
Hey thanks for making if. Seriously I may be some Random Human on the internet but Deviant I would do anything for. Because for his support & care for me. And so anything that improves his life is great. Thankyou
@@Millsgold822 so it sounds silly but the implant dance, as I like to call it, is a funny dance you have to do with your implant hand to find the best position for it to read on the reader. The repeater stickers work great on readers you use often to both identify the best spot to place your implant as well as increase the range. However the best use of them is on a proxmark or a flipper. When you write to the implant it has to be held in that sweet spot for a longer time and this kinda ensures you are coupled. The example Dev used about keeping the card in your pocket is mostly for access lifting to increase the range.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st They do work, the issue is that there are a large amount of poorly designed readers that arent tuned properly, or the field isnt shaped well enough for the small x-series implants. The repeaters kind of make it agnostic to the reader construction and reshapes the field to more efficiently couple with the implant.
That's very neat! Another application could be for escape rooms who need to slightly extend the range of a reader hidden inside a prop. Just stick one of these on the outside, paint over it, and now you have an extra cm or so of range
@@zeebeezoey in some cases you can even put the repeater on the reader itself if it is mounted underneath something. They do a great job at reshaping the field of an already poorly performing reader.
I look at my YT page of subscriptions and see "RFID Tank Circuits". I think to myself, "I more or less know what RFID is. I know what tanks are. I more or less know what circuits are. But I have know idea what RFID Tank Circuits are. Oh! it's a video from DeveiantOllam. I'll watch it!"
I'm guessing its a call-back to radio jargon. A tank circuit is a state of resonance reached using a variable inductor (coil) and capacitor (i.e. breadslicer), and you use the two to avoid standing waves. Standing waves are inefficiencies that limit range. By itself a tank circuit is neither a receiver or a transmitter, its just a tuner.
@@Don__ the flex circuits are made with an adhesive backing already so it's plug and play. You could even put it on the inside of the glove to be extra inconspicuous
RFID antenna orientation also matters. You'll get the best magnetic coupling when the reader and tag antennas are oriented on the same axis, and the coupling drops to zero if the antennas are perfectly orthogonal. The orientation of the little coil in your implant vs. the coil in a badge reader isn't optimal for long read range. Those tank circuit patches are a neat hack to improve the coupling. If you happen to stumble upon the newest RFID reader from that pet microchip company (the blue one with the not-rectangular case), I designed the electronics in it. A few other engineers designed the antenna coil, firmware, and mechanical stuff, and of course my design rested on the shoulders of other engineers' work. I'm not with the company or in the RFID industry any more, but LF RFID stuff still grabs my attention.
The thing that popped into my head was either as a CTF scavenger hunt at a bsides, or an escape room where you have to get all of the tank circuits in the right position to scan the card from further away. This also assumes that tank circuits could be stacked slightly for 3 in a row to give you just enough room to make a diy style combo lock type device.
I would love a video where you talk about your implants, like pros and cons (maybe what other people that also have it think) and how u really and reliable utilize it in field work
We use these at the Library I work at since our barcode stickers have RFID tags for security and being able to check out an entire stack at once. some books shit the bed because of interference from metallic covers or just being thick as hell, so we have boosters that make them work a little bit better.
Come to think of it: Could you embed this on the close side of a wall, with the reader on the far side of a wall making it more difficult to tamper with the actual reader? Might be an implementation to increase security if you ask me.
Yes, and actually this works well. I use this method at my house to get into and out of my office. However it is only going through Drywall so your results may vary.
This is neat! I personally am too big a baby for an embedded RFID capsule. I personally have an RFID wedding ring that Is enrolled at my local hackerspace for access control.
I'm pretty sure it would eventually lose too much strength because the RFID reader is supplying all the power. A lot like how sound gets quieter over time.
Put a flex disk in a glove over the location of the implant. Like a nylon fingerless cycling glove. Even better, make the glove flesh-colored so it's not so noticeable from a distance.
If it isn't already you should make the flex print with an skin safe adhesive backside, or find a safe glue you can reapply. Make it skin tone for low profile. Just pop it on/off for the days you would be using it a lot or something
All of the flex repeaters have an aggressive backing already. And to be honest, since Dev posted this video I never considered affixing it to my skin to test it out. Once I get home I can do a test and I'll update my Tindie if I feel it's skin safe.
I’ve always wondered how to extend the read range of the RFID tag I use to enter my apartment. Currently, you have to pretty much touch the tag to the reader for it to sense it, but I want it to work from like two feet away.
@@ericcarabetta1161 two feet is a bit of a stretch with NFC. Signal degradation is pretty high. You could probably get to about 6 inches but adding a multiple repeaters will get you to around 12in however successful reads will go down.
I could see this in mobile credential gathering. It would allow you to not have to get your bad as close to the badge attached to the target while you hold a "coaster", "poker chip", or "challenge coin" that could increase the range by either a swing of the hand or going in for a handshake.
I wonder if you could put the reader behind drywall and stick one of these on the outside, might be a good way to do some preventative measures from someone doing a physical attack on the reader itself
Hmmmmm.... I'm thinking this could allow the actual reader to be recessed to make it harder to access directly to prevent against hacking or vandalization, while still ensuring a solid read.
@@douganater hey man. I have multiple subdermals including a magnet and I never have had any issues with TSA. Doesn't even show up in their scans as the amount of metal is so miniscule
The way the scanners work at the TSA is that they try and get a scan of the outlines of your body, and then check for "irregularities". The millimeter waves can't penetrate skin, so this doesn't show up. The metal content is also relatively small, depending on the model it can survive some usually weaker MRIs without causing issues.
@@eriequiet is 100% right. Now if you dont care about getting a read and have something like an Xled implant, you can daisy chain many many of them to get a super long blinky light up.
So to avoid physical tampering, could you embed the reader in a concrete wall from the inside, then place the extender on the outside of the wall? That should prevent all physical tampering with the reader, right?🤷
You could! but the repeaters need some signal to be able to passthrough it to function. Plexiglasss would work better. @deviant Ollam this is probably a great security idea to subvert the RFID Theif attacks. I have had users mound the readers on the opposite side of a wooden door with one of the repeaters on the otherside and it works perfectly. It would probably work through drywall as well. however concrete and metal doors i wouldnt think would reliably work if at all.
Oh, B-sides, perfect, I hope to see that up online somewhere, I was going to ask if you had already talked before about how these things worked or had someone else's talk that you recommend. The rfid implant is still the neatest thing ever, imo. "tech sufficiently advanced, indistinguishable from magic, etc etc" I still don't understand how exactly this stuff works, so I will just call it magic until then.
Interesting, I've actually been thinking about an implant cause I moved somewhere with rfid doors. Didn't know the range of implants is so short. Guess I'll have to look into them a lot more before I decide to get one.
The first thing I thought of was to make a sticker version of it, so you can just stick it on your hand over the implant. That has many problems, but I thought it was amusing.
Coming soon to the sequel Oceans 14 (15?) One of the team members will throw a tank circuit between a person wearing the RFID badge and the reader to gain access to a secured area. It will be disguised as a playing card and thrown from at least 30' away. It will bridge the circuit mid-flight and then land in a waste basket or between two gambling machines.
Also imagine you could embed these, especially the flex ones into a glove (like the ones used in cold weather or maybe if you are disguising as a construction worker/repairman on a building), to discretely have it available for use on reading embedded credentials just put it below the outer most layer of fabric just on top of the embedded chip🤔🤔
Kind of defeats the purpose of a subdermal, doesn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love the tech and that it solves this issue. Wouldn't it be better to integrate this with the reader? I'm probably way off on this, lol. I know very little about RF so I'd love to be educated here (not sarcasm). 🙂
I think this would be the idea. If you have a reader that's inside a sealed box, antenna just on a PCB inside the reader housing, then you can stick this to the outside or even inside of the housing to bring that antenna to the surface of that housing helping overcome the extra gap. I think in this case it would be more useful for readers you provision to work with your subdermals, rather than out in the world. Might also allow you to use cheaper readers where design permits.
@@Derfboy that is the purpose of developing the repeater. To stick it on the reader itself to reshape the field and better align with the implants coupling field. I intentionally put a link to the GitHub in the stickers so that people don't think it is a nefarious device and they can see it's there to help the signal and not intercept it
having these on the reader definitely seems like the way to go, but even if you do have to carry one of these around, the implant still has some benefits-you'd still have to try really really hard to lose your credentials, and misplacing the card can't expose or compromise anything
Could this see use for hiding SDR implementations of RFID. Have an SDR in a bag, use a card shaped tank circuit to relay it to the reader. To the outside world it looks normal, no hint of any bulky SDR.
I have to scan my prox card at work for the parking lot - some readers work from 2 feet away. Others, I have to open the window and get the card right up to the reader. Having one of these repeaters on the car glass would save me from trying to mash my tethered rfid badge so far up to the window.
They do function by themselves. The issue is that a lot of Door Readers especially those that are coming inexpensive from china have two main flaws. 1. The antenna isnt tuned properly. 2. The reader goes into a low power mode which isnt enough juice to couple with the implant. Shaping the field that is generated by the reader helps resolve both of these issues. If there was more thought between the design of the readers antenna and they were able to be mass produced and tuned properly this wouldnt be an issue.
My question is if you're going to use one of these things, why not just have like a ring or some kind of other rewritable RFID tag? Like anywhere you can fit one of these you could also fit a RFID tag that would have better range so why not just carry around a second card or whatever?
@@johnsmith8981 you make really good points. Everyone has different use cases. I have 4 subdermals. One is a magnet in my finger. And while yes I could get a magnetic ring, it wouldn't be nearly as useful and more of a hindrance with things sticking to it. The RFID based subdermals all have their use. The xsiid I have is specifically for my business card or Venmo. But I like it because it glows under my skin when it's read. While the read range for phones isn't great it's still acceptable to be able to use it consistently. The other subdermal I have is for hotel key cards when I travel. This is the one I usually have haha with when I try to read. It isn't so much the range as you have to know the best placement to present the chip and have it oriented in the best way to couple with the readers coil. Finally the last one I have is a temperature sensor. I normally do not wear any jewelry or a watch. So to have the same functionality I'd have to have 4 different rings. And for someone that really doesn't enjoy jewelry it's a bit much rather than just having something that's a part of me I can't lose, forget, have stolen, or risk ring avulsion
Not sure whats happening with the field, whether it's amplifying, focusing, bouncing or what, but can you chain them? If it's an amplification or focus I guess it's likely to be quick diminishing returns?
@@bonce The field detector Dev is using has that little window that displays the number of layers in that PCB. It actually says 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It isnt a digital display, i kinda thought it was when i bought mine too!
There's a video on the Smith chart that is the bane of EEng's schooling. It's about the rebounding of UHF frequencies in circuits. I can imagine this simple looking circuit was a task to make exactly the right length. v=pXWbdxOAuDs
You aren't wrong. However the largest development time of this particular project wasn't the length of the trace, but the capacitive plates to make the circuit passive without the need for protruding onboard capacitors. I think I went through 120 different iterations before I was able to find one that maintained proper tuning to a degree that was acceptable for mass production variances. This has been an amazing and stressful project because of these anomalies.
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting. Now if you just wanted to use it to power an LED like the DT XLED or an XSIID, yes this will absolutely light it up without fail.
Can they be chained together? While it would look suspicious in a security situation, I imagine it would make an interesting base to an escape room puzzle 🤔
exactly my thought... saw him line up the card after putting the extender in... like, put an extender there and see if the card can go that distance again! make some holder that can chain a bunch together? How far CAN it be extended?
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting.
Apart from your embedded option, I really don't see the practicality of using it as a repeater. You have to get the tank within range regardless, so what makes that different from needing to put your badge in reading range?
So I don't know anything about these circuits but could they potentially be used to break through those rfid blocking wallets? Obviously not the full metal ones, but the less robust fabricy kind.
So the embedded chips don't work that well some of the time so the answer is basically a card that goes in between. Seems almost as if just having a card would be the way to go.
I imagine if you're trying to infiltrate with a credential cloned onto an implantable, you might want a flex-print tank circuit you could hide under an extra-large band-aid (assuming the band-aid padding doesn't add too much distance).
@@TheRealWilliamWhite the flex circuits already have adhesive on them so you could also just get a circle bandiad for it if you want to be covert. Given the interest in these from this video i will look at doing a few different color runs with and without logo's. However the quick solution i can reccomend. Look at getting some circle stickers that most match your skin tone and put it over the flex circuit.
So if you have a tank circuit that looks a lot like a normal card, you can make it look like you are using a real card that would only work for you; a sleight of hand trick?
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting. it seems that after 2 repeaters you can expect around 50% failure rate, and it just gets worse beyond that.
Just an odd thought but what if you enveloped a ball with the coils would it transmit a signal from one coil to the other and out making it multi directional?
you have a finite amount of power to distribute from the repeater. the more you introduce the less power that is available from the reader. this is an interesting theory but i am not sure how functional it will be because you will be creating overlapping magnetic fields that will interefere with one another.
I'm a bit confused. If you gotta carry a physical thing to put on the reader anyways, might as well just use a card and not bother with the implant at all. Am I missing something here?
Any tips on finding someone who does subdermal implants? I'm in the St. Louis area and I've talked to a bunch of piercers and none that I've talked to so far are willing to do it.
I don't knew your fellow creator. But his death has been carried near and far to speak of his loss say of his loss to us all!!!!. The Best if British to yiu all Anna
As a tesla coiler and a deviant ollom fan i knew i had to watch this. The tesla coil actually operates by using to tank circuits. Tank circuits are a very simple resonantor by using a coil of wire(inductor) connected to a capacitor and the resonant frequency is dependent on values of the inducatance and capacitance. And here the tank circuit boosts the signal by haveing a large inductor which stores the engery recivived by the transmistor in a large magnetic and the large magnetic field from the inductor is key and the field is amplified
INFINITE RANGE! you can repeat the signal but you wont get a successful read, you can use it to power a LED but it wont couple properly with a chip after 2 or 3 repeaters
Lowkey jealous of people with implantables. I really want one (I even have a few lil bits from Dangerous Things in the RFID department) but A) I have no real need for one, B) the UK looks down on implantables now so I can't go to a body mod place and get it done (DT actually shows a local place as a certified person but they refuse to do it now due to UK law and DT have yet to update the map to remove the person, they did not seem too happy when i called to ask about it before I considered buying one way way back)
@Hamspiced i would love to, but I know I'm nowhere near competent enough xD Don't get me wrong I know all the safety and disinfecting stuff, but I'd probably get shaky hands or etc
@@pandaman144. That's completely fair. You should join the forum. There are a bunch of super knowledgeable people there, many that might be able to offer knowledge of UK installers not on the list.
Great write up and demonstration of the circuits. As always i appreciate your content and am honored that you and your team find value in something I made! Thankyou Dev.
it is so terrific and i can't wait to show these to folk at BSides this weekend!
Hey thanks for making if. Seriously I may be some Random Human on the internet but Deviant I would do anything for. Because for his support & care for me.
And so anything that improves his life is great. Thankyou
The idea of carrying a card in your pocket to boost the range of your implant is a bit ironic but that is a great concept to play with
@@Millsgold822 so it sounds silly but the implant dance, as I like to call it, is a funny dance you have to do with your implant hand to find the best position for it to read on the reader. The repeater stickers work great on readers you use often to both identify the best spot to place your implant as well as increase the range.
However the best use of them is on a proxmark or a flipper. When you write to the implant it has to be held in that sweet spot for a longer time and this kinda ensures you are coupled.
The example Dev used about keeping the card in your pocket is mostly for access lifting to increase the range.
you could put one in a glove, but yeah if these implanted tags don't just work they are really pointless and dumb
@@beowulf_of_wall_st They do work, the issue is that there are a large amount of poorly designed readers that arent tuned properly, or the field isnt shaped well enough for the small x-series implants. The repeaters kind of make it agnostic to the reader construction and reshapes the field to more efficiently couple with the implant.
@@Hamspiced "they do work but there are a lot of readers that don't work with them" is the same as "they don't work"
@@beowulf_of_wall_st 😅 yeah I suppose you're right. Matter of perspective I guess.
Think you just solved a “reader is in a housing that keeps badges too far away and scanning becomes difficult.” Problem. You rock sir, thank you!
@@TyrannicalMechanical one of the great uses for these. Also to display the best spot for presenting the badge
That's very neat! Another application could be for escape rooms who need to slightly extend the range of a reader hidden inside a prop. Just stick one of these on the outside, paint over it, and now you have an extra cm or so of range
@@zeebeezoey in some cases you can even put the repeater on the reader itself if it is mounted underneath something. They do a great job at reshaping the field of an already poorly performing reader.
I look at my YT page of subscriptions and see "RFID Tank Circuits". I think to myself, "I more or less know what RFID is. I know what tanks are. I more or less know what circuits are. But I have know idea what RFID Tank Circuits are. Oh! it's a video from DeveiantOllam. I'll watch it!"
I'm guessing its a call-back to radio jargon. A tank circuit is a state of resonance reached using a variable inductor (coil) and capacitor (i.e. breadslicer), and you use the two to avoid standing waves. Standing waves are inefficiencies that limit range. By itself a tank circuit is neither a receiver or a transmitter, its just a tuner.
I was fully expecting a video on the uses of RFID in tanks / artillery lol
For implanted RFID chips, gloves with the flex circuit could make sense.
This was my immediate thought as well. That seems like a perfect product for those who are into implants.
At that point you might as well put the chip in the glove instead. Not as cool, but more practical if you're going to wear a glove.
@@emilysmith6897 But then you could loose the gloves, have them stolen, or simply not have them with you.
@@Don__ the flex circuits are made with an adhesive backing already so it's plug and play. You could even put it on the inside of the glove to be extra inconspicuous
Didn’t see this comment before I said something, but was thinking exactly the same thing!
RFID antenna orientation also matters. You'll get the best magnetic coupling when the reader and tag antennas are oriented on the same axis, and the coupling drops to zero if the antennas are perfectly orthogonal. The orientation of the little coil in your implant vs. the coil in a badge reader isn't optimal for long read range. Those tank circuit patches are a neat hack to improve the coupling.
If you happen to stumble upon the newest RFID reader from that pet microchip company (the blue one with the not-rectangular case), I designed the electronics in it. A few other engineers designed the antenna coil, firmware, and mechanical stuff, and of course my design rested on the shoulders of other engineers' work. I'm not with the company or in the RFID industry any more, but LF RFID stuff still grabs my attention.
The thing that popped into my head was either as a CTF scavenger hunt at a bsides, or an escape room where you have to get all of the tank circuits in the right position to scan the card from further away. This also assumes that tank circuits could be stacked slightly for 3 in a row to give you just enough room to make a diy style combo lock type device.
I'm definitely going to start referring to our badges at work as "boopy cards" from now on.
I would love a video where you talk about your implants, like pros and cons (maybe what other people that also have it think) and how u really and reliable utilize it in field work
We use these at the Library I work at since our barcode stickers have RFID tags for security and being able to check out an entire stack at once. some books shit the bed because of interference from metallic covers or just being thick as hell, so we have boosters that make them work a little bit better.
Come to think of it: Could you embed this on the close side of a wall, with the reader on the far side of a wall making it more difficult to tamper with the actual reader? Might be an implementation to increase security if you ask me.
Yes, and actually this works well. I use this method at my house to get into and out of my office. However it is only going through Drywall so your results may vary.
This is neat! I personally am too big a baby for an embedded RFID capsule. I personally have an RFID wedding ring that Is enrolled at my local hackerspace for access control.
Question: Could one employ a chain / column of tank circuits and further extend the readable distance?
I'm pretty sure it would eventually lose too much strength because the RFID reader is supplying all the power. A lot like how sound gets quieter over time.
that rf field detector is really cool!!
Put a flex disk in a glove over the location of the implant. Like a nylon fingerless cycling glove. Even better, make the glove flesh-colored so it's not so noticeable from a distance.
Thank you. Flex print would be interesting for a wrist band.
If it isn't already you should make the flex print with an skin safe adhesive backside, or find a safe glue you can reapply. Make it skin tone for low profile. Just pop it on/off for the days you would be using it a lot or something
All of the flex repeaters have an aggressive backing already. And to be honest, since Dev posted this video I never considered affixing it to my skin to test it out. Once I get home I can do a test and I'll update my Tindie if I feel it's skin safe.
The flexible one mounted into or onto a glove sounds like it could be useful!
Looking forward to it. RFID stuff is always fun.
I think I need to integrate a flex tank circuit into my winter gloves! That'll solve a lot of problems at work with my subdermal!
I’ve always wondered how to extend the read range of the RFID tag I use to enter my apartment. Currently, you have to pretty much touch the tag to the reader for it to sense it, but I want it to work from like two feet away.
@@ericcarabetta1161 two feet is a bit of a stretch with NFC. Signal degradation is pretty high. You could probably get to about 6 inches but adding a multiple repeaters will get you to around 12in however successful reads will go down.
I could see this in mobile credential gathering. It would allow you to not have to get your bad as close to the badge attached to the target while you hold a "coaster", "poker chip", or "challenge coin" that could increase the range by either a swing of the hand or going in for a handshake.
The flex circuit seems like you would probably prefer to pop it into a glove for imbeds just put it directly in front of the site and good to scan.
I wonder if you could put the reader behind drywall and stick one of these on the outside, might be a good way to do some preventative measures from someone doing a physical attack on the reader itself
Hmmmmm.... I'm thinking this could allow the actual reader to be recessed to make it harder to access directly to prevent against hacking or vandalization, while still ensuring a solid read.
excellent implementation!
Do your implants get you extra delays at TSA. Obviously seen all your Guns drama you go through everytime but how do the implants go at screening?
@@douganater hey man. I have multiple subdermals including a magnet and I never have had any issues with TSA. Doesn't even show up in their scans as the amount of metal is so miniscule
The way the scanners work at the TSA is that they try and get a scan of the outlines of your body, and then check for "irregularities". The millimeter waves can't penetrate skin, so this doesn't show up. The metal content is also relatively small, depending on the model it can survive some usually weaker MRIs without causing issues.
Just a curious question, do the tank circuits stack?
They can… but the issue is you begin to introduce lag, which the readers don’t tolerate well
@@eriequiet is 100% right. Now if you dont care about getting a read and have something like an Xled implant, you can daisy chain many many of them to get a super long blinky light up.
So to avoid physical tampering, could you embed the reader in a concrete wall from the inside, then place the extender on the outside of the wall? That should prevent all physical tampering with the reader, right?🤷
You could! but the repeaters need some signal to be able to passthrough it to function. Plexiglasss would work better. @deviant Ollam this is probably a great security idea to subvert the RFID Theif attacks. I have had users mound the readers on the opposite side of a wooden door with one of the repeaters on the otherside and it works perfectly. It would probably work through drywall as well. however concrete and metal doors i wouldnt think would reliably work if at all.
Those small ones would be amazing in a pair of gloves that positions the circuit over common implant locations!
OMG...security meets radio frequency technology! This ticks a bunch of boxes in one video!
Oh, B-sides, perfect, I hope to see that up online somewhere, I was going to ask if you had already talked before about how these things worked or had someone else's talk that you recommend. The rfid implant is still the neatest thing ever, imo.
"tech sufficiently advanced, indistinguishable from magic, etc etc"
I still don't understand how exactly this stuff works, so I will just call it magic until then.
@@seven_sixtwo NFC is basically magic. I think we're just barely grazing the surface as to what it is capable of
Wish I had that at my last hotel
I wonder if this would make it possible to read through 3/8 tempered glass now
Hrm, I think it should. If you're interested in testing it feel free to reach out to me.
Needs to look like a credential card when using to boost the implant. That covers being inconspicuous and also protects from loss of real credential
Interesting, I've actually been thinking about an implant cause I moved somewhere with rfid doors. Didn't know the range of implants is so short. Guess I'll have to look into them a lot more before I decide to get one.
The first thing I thought of was to make a sticker version of it, so you can just stick it on your hand over the implant. That has many problems, but I thought it was amusing.
My flex repeaters have adhesive backing, so that was actually the same idea but rather than sticking it on your hand we just stick it on the reader.
That’s like those things old people used to buy to check for “leaks” in their microwave oven
Interesting i dont think i have seen those before.
Nice info bro thank you
Awesome!
idea! thx
I really want to get the subdermals at some point!
Coming soon to the sequel Oceans 14 (15?) One of the team members will throw a tank circuit between a person wearing the RFID badge and the reader to gain access to a secured area. It will be disguised as a playing card and thrown from at least 30' away. It will bridge the circuit mid-flight and then land in a waste basket or between two gambling machines.
Also imagine you could embed these, especially the flex ones into a glove (like the ones used in cold weather or maybe if you are disguising as a construction worker/repairman on a building), to discretely have it available for use on reading embedded credentials just put it below the outer most layer of fabric just on top of the embedded chip🤔🤔
Kind of defeats the purpose of a subdermal, doesn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love the tech and that it solves this issue. Wouldn't it be better to integrate this with the reader? I'm probably way off on this, lol. I know very little about RF so I'd love to be educated here (not sarcasm). 🙂
I think this would be the idea. If you have a reader that's inside a sealed box, antenna just on a PCB inside the reader housing, then you can stick this to the outside or even inside of the housing to bring that antenna to the surface of that housing helping overcome the extra gap.
I think in this case it would be more useful for readers you provision to work with your subdermals, rather than out in the world. Might also allow you to use cheaper readers where design permits.
@@Derfboy that is the purpose of developing the repeater. To stick it on the reader itself to reshape the field and better align with the implants coupling field. I intentionally put a link to the GitHub in the stickers so that people don't think it is a nefarious device and they can see it's there to help the signal and not intercept it
@@bazzatron9482 yeah you pretty much nailed it. That's the intended use case
having these on the reader definitely seems like the way to go, but even if you do have to carry one of these around, the implant still has some benefits-you'd still have to try really really hard to lose your credentials, and misplacing the card can't expose or compromise anything
@@bazzatron9482 Welp, that just about sums it up. Thanks! You RF people blow my mind...crazy smart. 😎🤘
Could this see use for hiding SDR implementations of RFID. Have an SDR in a bag, use a card shaped tank circuit to relay it to the reader. To the outside world it looks normal, no hint of any bulky SDR.
My first thought was, I wonder if you can string them together and if so, how many
I finally hit 1,000 subs and just wanted to thank you for helping me hit that goal and the giveaway will start this evening 9/11/2024
great one
I have to scan my prox card at work for the parking lot - some readers work from 2 feet away. Others, I have to open the window and get the card right up to the reader. Having one of these repeaters on the car glass would save me from trying to mash my tethered rfid badge so far up to the window.
I'm confused, what's the purpose of the subdermals if they don't read by themselves?
They do function by themselves. The issue is that a lot of Door Readers especially those that are coming inexpensive from china have two main flaws. 1. The antenna isnt tuned properly. 2. The reader goes into a low power mode which isnt enough juice to couple with the implant. Shaping the field that is generated by the reader helps resolve both of these issues.
If there was more thought between the design of the readers antenna and they were able to be mass produced and tuned properly this wouldnt be an issue.
My question is if you're going to use one of these things, why not just have like a ring or some kind of other rewritable RFID tag? Like anywhere you can fit one of these you could also fit a RFID tag that would have better range so why not just carry around a second card or whatever?
@@johnsmith8981 you make really good points. Everyone has different use cases.
I have 4 subdermals. One is a magnet in my finger. And while yes I could get a magnetic ring, it wouldn't be nearly as useful and more of a hindrance with things sticking to it.
The RFID based subdermals all have their use. The xsiid I have is specifically for my business card or Venmo. But I like it because it glows under my skin when it's read. While the read range for phones isn't great it's still acceptable to be able to use it consistently.
The other subdermal I have is for hotel key cards when I travel. This is the one I usually have haha with when I try to read. It isn't so much the range as you have to know the best placement to present the chip and have it oriented in the best way to couple with the readers coil.
Finally the last one I have is a temperature sensor. I normally do not wear any jewelry or a watch. So to have the same functionality I'd have to have 4 different rings. And for someone that really doesn't enjoy jewelry it's a bit much rather than just having something that's a part of me I can't lose, forget, have stolen, or risk ring avulsion
I'm a simple girl. I see a Neon White reference, I click.
Not sure whats happening with the field, whether it's amplifying, focusing, bouncing or what, but can you chain them? If it's an amplification or focus I guess it's likely to be quick diminishing returns?
...also the like counter is at 666 so I ain't touching that :D so have a an additional comment as recompense.
@@bonce The field detector Dev is using has that little window that displays the number of layers in that PCB. It actually says 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It isnt a digital display, i kinda thought it was when i bought mine too!
Its reshaping the field and broadcasting it back, and yes you can chain them, but after 2 you are going to run into read coupling issues.
There's a video on the Smith chart that is the bane of EEng's schooling. It's about the rebounding of UHF frequencies in circuits. I can imagine this simple looking circuit was a task to make exactly the right length.
v=pXWbdxOAuDs
You aren't wrong. However the largest development time of this particular project wasn't the length of the trace, but the capacitive plates to make the circuit passive without the need for protruding onboard capacitors. I think I went through 120 different iterations before I was able to find one that maintained proper tuning to a degree that was acceptable for mass production variances. This has been an amazing and stressful project because of these anomalies.
My immediate question is, can you chain them together to improve the range even further?
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting.
Now if you just wanted to use it to power an LED like the DT XLED or an XSIID, yes this will absolutely light it up without fail.
you (general "you") could probably integrate the small flexible ones into a glove to be a blanket boost of the embedded range
the flex repeaters have an adhesive backing so it would be perfect for this application
oh. from the title I thought this was going to be about some sort of driver/gunner validation RFID in a tracked tank
Can they be chained together?
While it would look suspicious in a security situation, I imagine it would make an interesting base to an escape room puzzle 🤔
I had the same idea! Didn't see your comment until after I said something. Does make me wonder if they stack.
Hello new rabbithole...
exactly my thought... saw him line up the card after putting the extender in... like, put an extender there and see if the card can go that distance again! make some holder that can chain a bunch together? How far CAN it be extended?
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting.
Can you line up multiple tank circuits to get even more distance?
Are they relays, or do they work like EM lenses? Can they be designed/arranged like a telescope?
Put the booster in a glove and you can get up to longer-range fun and be quite stealthy.
Apart from your embedded option, I really don't see the practicality of using it as a repeater. You have to get the tank within range regardless, so what makes that different from needing to put your badge in reading range?
So I don't know anything about these circuits but could they potentially be used to break through those rfid blocking wallets? Obviously not the full metal ones, but the less robust fabricy kind.
So the embedded chips don't work that well some of the time so the answer is basically a card that goes in between. Seems almost as if just having a card would be the way to go.
A phone size would be great to carry under your phone case
I imagine if you're trying to infiltrate with a credential cloned onto an implantable, you might want a flex-print tank circuit you could hide under an extra-large band-aid (assuming the band-aid padding doesn't add too much distance).
You could pull the gauze off and place the flex tank on the adhesive and put the gauze back on to reduce the distance to reader.
@@TheRealWilliamWhite the flex circuits already have adhesive on them so you could also just get a circle bandiad for it if you want to be covert.
Given the interest in these from this video i will look at doing a few different color runs with and without logo's. However the quick solution i can reccomend. Look at getting some circle stickers that most match your skin tone and put it over the flex circuit.
Nice
So if you have a tank circuit that looks a lot like a normal card, you can make it look like you are using a real card that would only work for you; a sleight of hand trick?
Are they "stackable" and if so, how many repeaters can be added to the chain until signal degradation prevent the credentials from completing?
You can.... and i say this on baited breath. In the testing i have done and others over at Dangerous Things Forum, we observed that you can daisy chain them. It will power and couple, however there is a failure rate that occurs due to lag of a response/request that the reader is expecting. it seems that after 2 repeaters you can expect around 50% failure rate, and it just gets worse beyond that.
@Deviant Blue is low frequency :P
door simulator on the RTA shop when?
Now I wonder if you used two tank circuits, could you triple the read distance?
you can but at dimenished successful read results since the latency will fail at the reader
Want one of the flex ones in a pair of gloves
What if you nedd an MRI or something, is there anything in the chips in your hands that could be dangerous?
Just an odd thought but what if you enveloped a ball with the coils would it transmit a signal from one coil to the other and out making it multi directional?
you have a finite amount of power to distribute from the repeater. the more you introduce the less power that is available from the reader. this is an interesting theory but i am not sure how functional it will be because you will be creating overlapping magnetic fields that will interefere with one another.
Wonder how effective this would be boosting through a wall to a reader.
curious. what if you put multiple in between? can it be near 3x for 2 for example?
I'm a bit confused. If you gotta carry a physical thing to put on the reader anyways, might as well just use a card and not bother with the implant at all. Am I missing something here?
Any tips on finding someone who does subdermal implants? I'm in the St. Louis area and I've talked to a bunch of piercers and none that I've talked to so far are willing to do it.
Ok I need one of those how can I get one I'd love to do a video on these with my flipper zero
Deviant was kind enough to link to my Tindie store in the description of the video. Would be happy to send you one!
@@Hamspiced awesome man thank you
the small ones would be really cool to stick in a glove potentially, at least that's my hypothesis
the flex repeaters have an adhesive backing so it would be perfect for this application
Always here for more implant stuff…
Hamspiced killed it with this project
@deviantollam, you cool with everyone knowing your implant’s ID?
I don't knew your fellow creator. But his death has been carried near and far to speak of his loss say of his loss to us all!!!!.
The Best if British to yiu all
Anna
tank glove ?
As a tesla coiler and a deviant ollom fan i knew i had to watch this.
The tesla coil actually operates by using to tank circuits. Tank circuits are a very simple resonantor by using a coil of wire(inductor) connected to a capacitor and the resonant frequency is dependent on values of the inducatance and capacitance. And here the tank circuit boosts the signal by haveing a large inductor which stores the engery recivived by the transmistor in a large magnetic and the large magnetic field from the inductor is key and the field is amplified
@@jameslucarelli7172 this guy inducts
how far away can you get if you put loads of tank circuits in between? :D
INFINITE RANGE! you can repeat the signal but you wont get a successful read, you can use it to power a LED but it wont couple properly with a chip after 2 or 3 repeaters
You could embed these into a glove or the sleeve of a shirt / jacket
Mount that flex tank on a glove.
Now line up several thousand of these and read something from a mile away. Would that even work?
lol! that would be really cool, but you get significant signal loss at around 2-3 repeaters. if you wanted to power a small led it still would though!
"...plus a blonde one..." !?!?!😄
you caught that too? Probably my second favorite part of the video
Lowkey jealous of people with implantables. I really want one (I even have a few lil bits from Dangerous Things in the RFID department) but A) I have no real need for one, B) the UK looks down on implantables now so I can't go to a body mod place and get it done (DT actually shows a local place as a certified person but they refuse to do it now due to UK law and DT have yet to update the map to remove the person, they did not seem too happy when i called to ask about it before I considered buying one way way back)
Could always do a self install!
@Hamspiced i would love to, but I know I'm nowhere near competent enough xD
Don't get me wrong I know all the safety and disinfecting stuff, but I'd probably get shaky hands or etc
@@pandaman144. That's completely fair. You should join the forum. There are a bunch of super knowledgeable people there, many that might be able to offer knowledge of UK installers not on the list.
ooh handy! Ive had issues with the nfc implant strength for some devices
This is exaclty why i developed these. I wanted to be able to read my implant and write to it through my phone case.