Does the Bible Support Women in Ministry?

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  • Опубліковано 25 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 54

  • @imanii4u
    @imanii4u Рік тому +3

    I thank God for you and others who have studied and are studying deeply to make plain the value and reality of women leaders in the early church. To God be the glory!

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for your kind words and for watching and commenting :)

  • @bmcb3664
    @bmcb3664 Рік тому +4

    Thank you for the knowledge and scriptural backing for this often misunderstood and divisive spiritual hurdle.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching. You would probably like the video that came out today on this topic, “Can Women Lead Churches?”

  • @c.g.j.h7265
    @c.g.j.h7265 Рік тому +3

    Another clear and compelling presentation for women in ministry. Hats off to you, Bible Geek!

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching and for commenting :)

    • @DrDoerk
      @DrDoerk Рік тому

      The Bible never says that a woman can't be in ministry..... however, it is clear that a woman should not be the head of a church or marriage.

  • @redxhabanero
    @redxhabanero Рік тому +4

    Regarding 1 Timothy 2:8-15, I would like to hear your interpretation as to what Paul was arguing if it wasn't a clear instruction that women are not to teach or have authority in the context of congregational worship (ie. they are not to be "church leaders" in the capacity of being elders/pastors/overseers and preaching/teaching over the church congregation gathering that includes men).
    1 Timothy 2:8-15 (NRSV translation):
    8 I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument, 9 also that the women should dress themselves in moderate clothing with reverence and self-control, not with their hair braided or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, 10 but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve, 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
    My questions for you:
    1. What does Paul mean by "I desire, then, that in every place" the men... (v.8) and "also" that the women... (v.9-onward) if this is solely for the church in Ephesus? Would he not desire such applications from men and women as in verses 8-onward in every church?
    2. If the applications in verses 11-12 apply solely to the church in Ephesus, then what is to stop someone justifying that verses 9-10 apply solely to the church in Ephesus?
    3. Paul gives the two reasons for the prohibition in verses 13-14 with the conjunction γάρ: first, γάρ God's ordained order of creation (that man is ordained to have headship right from the beginning because man was made first); and second, γάρ the Fall (that the role reversal - where the man abrogated his responsibility while the woman, his complementary partner/helper, superseded hers - resulted in destruction). How can one possibly argue that these reasons are not universal for the whole Church?
    4. What is Paul saying in verse 15 if he is not applying a contrast: that women ought not usurp the God-intended authority from certain men in the church, but women can find blessedness and preservation from straying in the God-ordained role of motherhood?
    Of course, Scripture encourages women to be in ministry in many places, such as teaching other women (Titus 2:3-5), children (Proverbs 1:8), and correcting male leaders privately (Acts 18:24-26)... But never is Biblical "women's ministry" synonymous with being "church leaders". Paul never "sends women to preach in front of churches" and "function as church leaders". You twist the passages which you claim support this.
    - Acts 18: Priscilla and her husband are tentmakers and work together with Paul, being of the same trade as him - ie. making tents (v.3). Paul alone argues in the synagogue (v.4). They travel with Paul up until Ephesus (v.18-21). Again, Paul alone argues in the synagogue: "he left them there, but first he himself went into the synagogue..." (v.19). In Ephesus they take Apollos aside and privately correct him: "they took him aside and explained the Way of God to him more accurately" (v.26). That is all.
    Priscilla and her husband have a church in their house (1 Cor. 16:19). Nowhere are we told Priscilla preaches/teaches over the church. A more obvious conclusion would be that she shows hospitality in having the church in her home.
    Priscilla and Aquila are συνεργούς of Paul (Romans 16:3). Yes, Paul uses this term for fellow apostles. But it doesn't mean that every time the term is used that it refers to apostles. 3 John 1:18 uses it for fellow believers in general.
    I could go on. But I believe a proper read of Acts 18 already proves you are conflating two different things into one. Such eisegesis is dangerous. I pray that you would be more careful and let the Scriptures speak. It is easy to take words and verses out of context, and to read our own modern beliefs into the text, and unfortunately, feminism among other worldly beliefs has strong influence in the contemporary Church.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому +2

      Thanks for watching and for your comment. To your final point about feminism and the church. One of the reasons I cite early church interpreters in this video is to show people that people believed women could be church leaders long before feminism, and women were in ministry long before feminism. And, people were interpreting these verses to support women in ministry, almost 2 millennia before feminism.
      If you want to see how I interpret Acts 18 and Priscilla, my next video will be discussing her in detail, so subscribe to be notified when that video comes out.
      When it comes to a detailed explanation of 1 Tim 2, I don’t have the time to write up a response. I may make a video on that, but I may not have time, there are a couple more I need to make before that. That said, I think Dr. Gupta’s explanation in his book is well done, so check that out, if you can’t wait. You would also benefit from reading the chapter on Priscilla in his book as well. To put it simply, 1 Tim 2, when read in their historical, social, and canonical context, is not a blanket rejection of women speaking and teaching in church. Thanks again for watching :)

    • @Godisgood373
      @Godisgood373 Рік тому +2

      With 1 Tim 2, the complementarian interpretation is quite a dangerous one. It takes this one verse and creates new rules that drastically affect how the church functions and how we view women (bad hermeneutics). It's best to take a step back into safer territory and consider that Paul was actually not talking about an ordained hierarchy hidden in Genesis. We should take a look at the context of the letter. 1 Tim was written specifically to address the false teachings spreading in Ephesus. This woman was likely one of the people who were "desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm." (1 Tim 1:7). There might have been a heresy being taught that Eve was created first, so Paul corrects it (1 Tim 2:13). Then clever Paul, using the same passage in Genesis, takes a jab at this heresy and writes, "And Adam was not deceived, but the *woman* being deceived, fell into transgression." (v 14). I think Paul says "woman" here instead of "Eve" like before because he is referring to the woman at Ephesus. She's a deceived woman. People who are deceived should not teach. They need to learn (v 11).
      Answering all of your questions would take long time, so I'll point you to Marg Mowczko's blog. She has many posts on 1 Tim 2 and she addresses what "saved through childbearing" (v 15) might mean. Women are not saved by "accepting their role as mothers" (NLT footnote). They are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8). God bless. :)

    • @DrDoerk
      @DrDoerk Рік тому +1

      Exactly! I have not heard a good argument against the passage in Timothy.
      Paul ties it back to creation, not to culture.

    • @DrDoerk
      @DrDoerk Рік тому +1

      ​@@Godisgood373you have quite a bit of exegesis in your arguments.

    • @xAaeiynx
      @xAaeiynx 8 місяців тому +1

      ​@DrDoerk 1 Tim 2:13-14 talks about Adam's authority over Eve but puts it in a "men rule over women" sort of way. If we go back to Gen 3:16 God tells Eve that Adam's authority over her is that of a "husband over wife" and not "men over women". So, when 1 Tim 2:12 says "women usurping authority over men" is really about wives, and that the husband is above the wife and not "all men over all women". As other verses and books of the bible repeats the "wives submit to your husbands" commandment (Gen 3:16, Eph 5:22, Col 3:18, etc.). Makes sense as women will not be submitting themselves to men that aren't their husbands.

  • @ringthembells143
    @ringthembells143 Рік тому +1

    YES YES and three more servings of YES🥳🥳🥳
    Great Work ✅
    Would love to chat About this sometime with You🙋🏻‍♂️

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks so much for your comment and for watching. :)

  • @476429
    @476429 Рік тому +2

    I did not know anyone had a problem with women in ministry. Now there is some controversy about women holding the position of lead pastor (and therefore leader) of a church but not "ministry". I even grew up in a KJV-only, young-earth creationist, independent Baptist church and they had no problem with women in the ministry. The Catholic church has no problem with women in the ministry. I don't know that I've ever met a Christian, no matter how conservative, who said women should not be in the ministry. But being the lead pastor of a church is a different story.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому +4

      There are churches who won’t let women preach or teach or even pray in their church communities on Sunday in any capacity. That said, I am glad you have not encountered them. I should clarify though, when I talk about women in ministry, I am assuming ministry is synonymous with church leadership in all capacities. I can’t imagine someone being a person who is “prominent among the apostles” not being allowed to offer the sacraments or preach a sermon or pray publicly in a church. So, if Junia is an apostle, I think that means she is qualified to lead in all capacities in church life.
      I have one more video planned on the subject expanding this topic in the NT and one more planned in church history, so if you are subscribed, you’re welcome to watch those when they come out. The next NT one is coming out probably in about a week. Almost finished with it.
      Thanks for watching and commenting. :)

  • @donj2222
    @donj2222 Рік тому +2

    Very nice, thanks!

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching and your kind comment :)

    • @donj2222
      @donj2222 Рік тому

      @@biblegeekPhD One minor comment that I think would be an improvement. When you quote a debated NT verse(s) show it in the Greek. What you showed is one possible way to translate the Greek and it may not be the best way to translate the Greek; that is what I think, for instance.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      @@donj2222 yeah, each of these verses are my own translation, but my choices are mostly standard and common. Additionally, I tried to retain the Greek word order when possible so people could discern how I was translating, if they did pull out their GNT. One of the main reasons I don't have the Greek on screen is because it will crowd the screen, and I want the images to be nice and clean.
      About the only translation choice that is a little more unique that I don't overtly mention the Greek term in my translation of συλλαμβάνου in Phil 4:3, "Support." That said, BDAG lists "support" alongside the typical choice "help." If my audience knew Greek, I would likely include those details, but I realize that only a few viewers would actually know the Greek on the screen, so I largely omit it. In fact, if you watch my earlier videos, I often did put the Greek next to the verse. Also, you may have noticed, but likely not, the manuscript images behind the translated text actually corresponds with the English text I have translated. So, when Philippians 4 in on screen, the MSS is Philippians 4, etc. It may not all be completely visible for various reasons, but technically, the Greek is right there, haha. (this is actually usually the case for my videos, but not every backdrop corresponds exactly, and one Hebrew text I was unable to find a good image to match in another video)
      In the next video, I will discuss some technical things in the Greek because it matters significantly for how I am interpreting something, so be sure to check that out. :)

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Oh, and thanks for the suggestion :)

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      @@donj2222 Also, I have another channel where I made videos for my Greek students. So, if you want to see how I read and interpret Greek, check that out. www.youtube.com/@dainalexandersmith

  • @staceycameron4285
    @staceycameron4285 Рік тому

    Learning so much here. Thank you brother. 🙏

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching and for commenting! :)

  • @svenknutsen8937
    @svenknutsen8937 9 місяців тому +1

    Super interesting! New subcriber here! 👍

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  9 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for watching and subscribing! :)

  • @casey1167
    @casey1167 Рік тому

    What Bible version are you using on this? (for Romans 16:1-2)

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      I believe that is my own translation. I did this video a while ago though, so I am not positive. I am a NT Greek professor, so I read the NT in Greek regularly. I do think it is influenced by Gupta’s work though (the book mentioned in the video), so his translation “ministry provider” was adopted in my translation.

    • @casey1167
      @casey1167 Рік тому

      @@biblegeekPhD Gupta is currently on the NLT Translation committee for Letters and Revelation, so I would assume your translation will be close to the next revision of the NLT.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      @@casey1167 that's great to hear. Yeah I would imagine that there will be some similarity. Though, the syntax of my sentence is likely a little more complicated then the NLT will end up being, I was trying to follow the Greek closely. That said, I am sure what the NLT comes up with will be great. :)

  • @Keitenrenbu
    @Keitenrenbu 7 місяців тому +1

    You would like another translation I use Now, I recommend to you, Phoebe, our sister, who is a deaconess of the assembly which is at Cenchrea.
    Kenneth S. Wuest, The New Testament: An Expanded Translation (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1961), Ro 16:1-5.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  7 місяців тому

      Indeed, deaconess works well too.

  • @micahmatthew7104
    @micahmatthew7104 Рік тому +1

    It’s interesting to say the least that some people argue that junia was a man. Isn’t there plenty of ancient inscriptions/references to Junias that clearly refer to a woman?

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому +1

      Yeah, Junia was definitely a woman’s name in the era the NT was written. If you want examples in texts and inscriptions, Eldon J Epp’s book discusses it thoroughly. Thanks for watching and commenting. :)

  • @Circleupfl
    @Circleupfl 10 місяців тому +2

    Here’s my problem with your videos. Maybe I’m overlooking somethings. And I’ve always felt woman should be allowed to have roles in church. But the Bible’s I use (several) clearly say otherwise at least as far as being a pastor goes. So the hill I stand on is woman can not be pastors. The main leader of a church. So where do you stand on that. Are woman allowed to be pastors? I’m not asking about deacons or elders or anything like that. I’m referring to pastors of a congregation

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  10 місяців тому

      You can see by other video on, Can Women Lead Churches? ua-cam.com/video/WD55gncPgLo/v-deo.htmlsi=wNerjeZoYNyBHrL1
      I have been to churches where women are pastors, my time there was very spiritually formative, and some of the best sermons I have ever heard were from women, and, I currently work in ministry alongside a man and a woman minister. I can from churches who did not ordained women, so I was taught that and believed it, then I studied the NT, and changed my mind. You can too, if you want :) if not, I hope you still keep watching my videos. Thanks for watching and commenting. :)

    • @Circleupfl
      @Circleupfl 10 місяців тому

      @@biblegeekPhD I’ve heard many lessons by woman gifted with teaching. I’ve heard amazing solid sermons by woman. I am not against that. I did learn Greek and Hebrew, but not on a super fluent level. It takes me a bit to translate. And I agree with much of what you’re saying, but it doesn’t matter what Bible version you have, they all say that a woman can’t be the sole pastor over a congregation. And that’s the trouble I’m having here. And I’ll continue to look into it. Cause clearly you can’t read it at a surface level. This all comes down to being able to translate it yourself, and from multiple manuscripts at that. So that’s what I’ll do. And I wish woman could be pastors! I truly do, but I cannot go against what God says. If it’s not his design, I cannot support it. Because the Bible specifically says a woman cannot be a pastor/leader of a congregation( a building) that it’s a man who has to have thy specific role. But I’ll look into it. I don’t think you are trying to deceive people. I believe you are teaching what you think is right.
      I personally believe that the Bible is perfect and how it’s supposed to be. That there are no contradictions in it. But this is clearly a contradiction.
      It is not like other verses where it says don’t judge, but then there’s another verse that says judge righteously. This isn’t the same thing. And what you’re saying is contradicting what the Bible says

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  10 місяців тому

      If you do want to learn more about this topic, I would recommend “Tell Her Story” by Nijay Gupta, and “The Making of Biblical Womanhood” by Beth Allison Barr. They are referenced in my videos.

    • @BrianSapp945
      @BrianSapp945 2 місяці тому

      @@biblegeekPhDYou are misleading a lot of people. It’s obvious that you may not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

  • @beethebasilthebee
    @beethebasilthebee Рік тому +1

    *chef’s kiss*

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  Рік тому

      Thanks for watching! :)

    • @beethebasilthebee
      @beethebasilthebee Рік тому +1

      @@biblegeekPhD no problem! you are an amazing brother and your work deserves to be seen 🩷

  • @drewscotti4124
    @drewscotti4124 9 місяців тому

    Women Preachers
    This one is a can of worms, but it really centers on preaching and teaching in the congregation. This is a place where women learn the way of the lord. but this doesn’t mean they are not equal partners in the great commission. they can prophecy and proclaim the gospel to the world, serve in the congregation, be good stewards of the way. Fast and pray earnestly for all to come to the knowledge of the Lord. Its just this sticky point Paul makes where he does not permit women “thing” which looks to our modern eyes as sexism. We have many examples of faithful women, and their commitment to that Hope in the gospel. It doesn’t look like Paul’s teaching here slowed them down in any way. In the end everyone must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  9 місяців тому

      I made another video that follows this one, you may be interested in it, “Can Women Lead Churches.”

  • @BrianSapp945
    @BrianSapp945 2 місяці тому

    The Bible supports women in ministry, BUT regardless of what you say women are not Apostles, Bishops, Deacons, or Elders. Period

    • @biblegeekPhD
      @biblegeekPhD  2 місяці тому +1

      “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae,” Rom 16.1
      There is literally a woman deacon in the Bible. The Greek is explicitly διάκονον.