Does this Bible verse say God can punish you for other people's sin?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Can God punish you for what someone else does? A question was asked: Why did God allow the ancient peoples’ children and David’s infant son to die for the sins of their ancestors despite that Scripture says that, in Deut. 24:16-“ Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin”?
This is my attempt at answering it.
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Dying as an infant isn't exactly "punishment". You get to move on automatically to Heaven without having to suffer through this life (and risk damnation). The death of an infant is a pretty big punishment for the parents of the infant, however.
Exactly
So is that why there’s often the saying “it would have been better if I/he/she weren’t born?” Because then they would bypass the temptation that led to their downfall?
Scripture for age of accountability
What scripture would you point to in order to support the claim that dying as an infant automatically puts you in heaven?
😂😂😂😂 OMG! The excuses you believers give for your all powerful god!!
When I come across a passage of Scripture I don't understand, it reminds me that God is still the teacher and I am still the student. I still have lessons to learn. (paraphrase of a Martin Luther quote)
Praise be to Gid
@@FBI_Agent_69420 Spelling error corrected.
The baby wasn’t punished, unless you consider being taken straight to God punishment.
Yes and the same is true for aborted babies. They get to go straight to God so it is actually a win for them
@@robintorassa409I don't know if you are, but I hope you're not using that to say abortion is ok. Also, there is no Scripture that says all babies who die go to heaven. We are all born in sin (original sin), and therefore all guilty from conception.
Right. Good explanation.
@@Howjadoo22they are not guilty and sent for eternal condemnation until they’re old enough and mature enough to be accountable. All children go to heaven until they’re at an age of accountability and that varies from person to person bc there are people who are not mentally capable until much older, or ever.
@@PureU0Artificial where do you find this in Scripture?
After the baby died, David knew that he would see him again. He grieved before he died but not after.
David son was in the covenant and given the sign
@@bigtobacco1098😂😂😂😂
Children are not punished for the sins of their parents but they do quite often suffer from the consequences...
If the mother drinks heavily while pregnant the child will suffer if the mother smokes heavily while pregnant the child will suffer.... If the previous generation pollutes the water the current one will suffer.
Exactly.
@@Mstorrance am I wrong ??
Thanks for the content between you and Mike Winger my Christian journey has been so SMOOTH!! Honestly, thanks Melissa 😊
Sincerely,
Brother Pasquale
God only moved the child from one place to another, he lives to this day with Him.
This is also a good explain for why Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. Greater Revelation = Greater Accountability
There are other examples of God visiting punishment on the sinners themselves *and* their children and grandchildren, albeit the punishments differ for each generation. In Numbers for example, God forbids the doubters and unfaithful from ever entering the promised lands, but allows their near descendants to enter - the catch being that they still have to wander for 40 years. I'd say the punishment seems to fit the crime and is adjusted for who it's being givwn out to, but of course that's different from the death of an infant. I think you explained it pretty concisely, well done.
Yes, but the punishment doesn't include hELL for the person or people who didn't commit the sins.
@@Ezekiel336-16 I'm still studying the Old Testament, so I can't say I know everything. But as far as I know, the punishment visited upon the descendants didn't involve damnation. Punishment in this context is more akin to consequences that children suffer because of their parents or grandparents.
Hmmmmm.... I see your point. There might be another perspective.
We view bastard children different then they did back in the day. This cold would have had a very difficult life in all aspects. It's very possible that God chose not to punish the child for David's violation.
I agree with you the way you laid it out with verses from the bible, sounds good. God bless you and your family.
The child did not suffer, but David was greatly grieved for his own sin.
At that time they did not go to heaven they went to Abraham's bosom aka paradise. Jesus took somebody there as a lesson. There was / is huge impass between paradise and torment side of hell Luke.16 [19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
God told me last year, not to fear death and to let it go, it has had a hold on my life for to long. He will decide when my time is up.
Amen sister!!! I’ve realized that fearing death has come from my flesh and is not from the Lord.
The only downside of death in my head, is for the people who love me that will remain, but I hope to be a strong example for them of what it means to love Christ and I know that the Lord will not let me die until His work through me has finished.
I have also realized that the death of people is a big inspiration and life-changing thing for people that can bring them closer to the Lord after that person is gone from this earth. So I hope that when I die, the people I was with will get closer to the Lord as a result.
I hope all this made sense and I will pray for you right now! 💞
The way I came to somewhat of a resolution on this is, it is not God directly punishing me for what my father or grandfather did, but it is the punishment of community perspective that will follow a sin to a subsequent generation. Confused? I understand.
Say, my dad murdered someone. Well, in a small to medium size community people will be reminded of that when they see me. I become guilty by association and that clouds their perspective, so I suffer because I remind them of the evil deed.
It is the same reason you will not find anyone named H****r, because others with that sir name changed theirs in the 1940s so as not to be associated with that evil creature. I've even wondered how many generations in the U.S. it took to not be reminded by the name Booth what someone did a century and more earlier. I even wondered how his action impacted his brother's career.
Bottom line, I'm with you Melissa. I don't have an absolute answer but to say God offers a reminder of how I conduct my life could impact, by association, my brother or my wife or my son. I hope someone finds this helpful. I'm sure I'll get replies from experts telling me how wrong I am.
I feel that way about a nation adopting laws that are ungodly. People often say, "Live and let live!" or "If I have an abortion it's between me and God." But don't you think it's kind of "communal?" Our society passes the laws to allow it. I hope this makes sense, and I hope I didn't get too badly off topic.
Well said, and this is just one example about how God is able to see things that we cannot. We can’t know what this child might have went through had it lived or how the nation of Israel might have viewed David benefiting from a blessing (children were seen as a great blessing) and heir via an adulterous marriage through murder.
Do you know that John Wilkes Booth’s older brother, Edwin Booth, was the leading actor in the USA, before and after JWB’s act?
Did you know that Woody Harrelson’s father was a hired killer on Death Row until the existing Death Penalty laws were all declared unconstitutional?
I understand what you are saying but don’t agree with the part about the kids being guilty by association with their father who murdered someone. My real life experience with a family whose dad was a serial killer - everyone knew his wife and kids were also innocent victims, no guilt associated with them at all. In our small town medium community, everyone supported them as best as anyone could.
The Lord wants us to have shared responsibility and to be our brother's keeper (unlike Cain who murdered Able) so we will not be permissive or dismissive about the sins of others who are supposed to be in our family with God. That is what mature people in families do, but that doesn't mean a parent will go to hELL if they do what they are supposed to do to bring up their child in the ways of the Lord but the child rejects Him, and the same goes for a child who tries to do the same with a parent.
As long as we aren't lackidaisical about the sins of others in our family and warn them like we're supposed to, see Ezekiel 3 and 33, then we are not responsible for their lack of life with the Lord.
In Christ,
Andrew
It's actually pretty simple, we just struggle because we don't fully understand what the ramifications of different words mean.
My father is an alcoholic, and by effect I was more inclined to become one myself (punishment). However, it wasn't until I made my own choices that led to me being an alcoholic myself that I was living with the prospect of being condemned to the second (eternal death) if I did not repent and turn away from that.
So, I suffered certain consequences from my father being an alcoholic (far more than just being inclined to be one myself), which is a punishment, but it wasn't until I freely made choices that led to my own alcoholism that I was faced with the prospect of death in this life and the next.
I wasn't responsible for the punishment (or consequences) received due to my father's sin of alcoholism, but I was responsible for my own sin of alcoholism once I made the choices that took me there.
In Christ,
Andrew
"Only the good die young"... makes you think... So the longer you live, the less good you are? We all die eventually, so does that mean we are all punished with death eventually? So many questions... Maybe God is waiting for you to turn to him, before he takes you? I've had a number of friends who have lost children, and every one of them tells me how wonderful of a person their child was. It is really the saddest thing here on earth, to bury your child.
I agree with your explanation, however, let me point out what I consider the elephant in the room.
This death of a completely innocent and sinless baby/person for the sins of others is pointing to what you by now should have a AHA! moment.
If you still don't get it, this is a foreshadowing of God's Son dying on the cross for your sins.
Get it now?
Aren't we all suffering because of the act first of Eve and then Adam?
We all have a responsibility of how acts may affect our children and even others not even related.
Wages of sin is death . . . . . only by grace are we saved - Rather asked why we are saved not why we die (some sooner than others)
While I've not been able to reconcile much of the OT, I appreciate your position and your good-faith approach to it. Well done.
The Mosaic Law is often misunderstood. There are 3 section (for lack of a better term) of law. One for the people, one for the Priest, and One for the King. The laws that were specifically applied to the King only applied to the King. Kings and Priest are held to a higher standard and therefore judged differently.
Excellent point about spiritual privilege and responsibility...I hadn't thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense given what we know about God's character. It reminds me of the parable of the talents from the New Testament
When Jacob mourns Joseph, he says “I will go down to Sheol mourning for my son.” (Gen 37) At that time, and the time of David, pre-incarnation of the Word, from an Israelite perspective, David would see his child in Sheol.
This is a hard passage, but it is also a very particular instance. Also, David's sin here effected his family in more ways than this. The line of David was revealed to be the means that God was working to bring the Messiah into the world, and as Melissa notes, more was expected of Israel through their covenant relationship and walk with God. How much more the line of David.
Job's children are taken because they constitute a means of support to Job, they are a blessing to Job. While often miss labeled a wager with the Accuser, it is properly understood as a testing of the Accuser's assertion, before the divine council, that God's relationship between with mankind is illegitimate, that God is nothing more than a tyrant. Again, this is a very particular instance. Job passes this first test because he recognizes that everything is on loan from God, including ourselves and our children.
what is sheol? sheol is the hebrew word for "hell" or more accurately "abode of the dead". its the hebrew version of the greeks "hades" which is commonly translated "hell".
so what is "hell"? do we think thats the lake of fire where everyone burns eternally?? did Jacob and Joseph really go to hell? they clearly went to "sheol"
@@junk3996 No, the Hebrews had Sheol long before there were Greeks to worry about. Sheol is not a lake of fire. The neighbors of the Israelites had similar versions of Sheol, to varying degrees of "life" after death. The major difference for the Hebrews was that there was no "god" ruler of Sheol. Which raise the theological question, what was Yahweh doing? Was there a plan for those souls or just eternity in darkness?
What I'm hearing is: the punishment of "killing the love child" is cruel to the child only if the child wasn't ushered immediately into Heaven, but he/she was. The punishment therefore was only effecting to the parents in the loss of their child and all that this implies of his/her absence in the here and now for years to come.
That, at least in this case, makes a lot of sense and I would have not come to that conclusion likely on my own.
Thank you.
Ive always loved your videos and been connected... 3:30 seconds you said something that really stood out to me. "The more knowledge you have of God the more responsibility you have to him." I know personally ive always felt this was true. Just in the heart that if you know more about God its your duty to share and repeat to those who havent.
Mom was a spiritual leader for our church and she had the debate of "what if the persons never heard jesus's name but lived like he did, does he not go to heaven because he doesnt call jesus the Son of God? I remember what my mom said...."jesus cannot come back to earth until the 4 corners of the earth has heard his name. But he will judge the heart of those who's not heard his name and the deeds theyve done..." (basically saying what your saying there, the more you know, the more you should bear responsibility and should teach) Still makes me shed a tear thinking about how fast she said that too.
Four corners of the earth? So the flat earth theory is true then? Square flat earth?
@@LitoGeorge It's an idiom.
There is also the issue regarding the Lord's promise of always have a king to sit on the throne through the line of David and God's redemptive plan.
I think this negates the generational sin that we inherited from Adam and Eve. (Ex 20:5) All fall short from birth to death, whether by our own doing or by our fathers.
I understand what you mean, but you need to be careful with saying "we don't really die, we just change location." Jehovah's Witnesses will jump all over that claiming that you are repeating Satan's lie in the garden. Completely different topic I know, but still. We have to be careful with our word choices. Other than that, good transparent answer.
God makes himself very clear in Ezekiel 18:2-4, where the Lord says, “Why do you quote this proverb concerning the land of Israel: ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, but their children’s mouths pucker at the taste’? As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, you will not quote this proverb anymore in Israel. For all people are mine to judge-both parents and children alike. And this is my rule: The person who sins is the one who will die." The people of Jerusalem in 586BC weren't judged for the sins of their fathers, but because they were committing the same sins as their fathers before them. God is just, not vindictive. He says in Ezekiel 18:32-34, "Therefore, I will judge each of you, O people of Israel, according to your actions, says the Sovereign Lord. Repent, and turn from your sins. Don’t let them destroy you! Put all your rebellion behind you, and find yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O people of Israel? I don’t want you to die, says the Sovereign Lord. Turn back and live!" (NLT)
Roman's 1:32 1corinthians 6:9-12 everything is based off of the fore knowledge of God Roman's 9:13- 24 Roman's 8:28-30 jack hibbs did this study should go and watch it. Plus dispensations rightly dividing the word of truth.
“Run. Do not walk to the exits!”
Respectfully, these inexplicable flaws in “divine judgement “ as taught in “God’s word” are among the many reasons I had to “run to the exit” after 64 years of glossing over these simple questions. There is no justification for this type of justice by an all knowing,” loving god.” Full stop.
It seems that the scripture in Deuteronomy is God giving law to man on how man can punish. Not how God punishes. For the way God takes lives see Ezekiel 18:1-4. I found this on the channel @Inthyword from his video God Kills David’s Son-Why Punish David Himself? What do you think?
Hmm. This is a tricky one. As to Uriah. Here are some of my thoughts. Not to say that punishment or consequence wasn't a part of David and Bathsheba--the nature of the consequence makes sense upon further reflection. This is simply some of my own conjectures: since Nathan told David that Bathsheba was Uriah's one little ewe lamb, it makes sense to me for God to claim the life of David and Bathsheba's baby because David had taken Bathsheba, Uriah's one little ewe lamb, Uriah was killed. Bathsheba and David unjustly conceived a life of one flesh that should have been Uriah's FIRSTBORN offspring. Remember, in the Bible, firstborn offspring are key and crucial in trajectory. It makes sense to me that God would collect Uriah's firstborn forfeited offspring home to eternity to be with Uriah. Plus, it would not do to have David's firstborn son born in sexual sin, specifically adultery to grow and lead Israel. Solomon was anointed king instead AND WARNED by God to keep worship and his and the nation's heart pure in fidelity to Yahweh, yet later on Solomon fell pray to foreign princesses and the gods the women all worshipped.
But there are other instances in the bible where one’s children are put to death because of their parents sin, namely Achan and Koran. Specially koran does say “little ones” or “toddlers” were with them. What about numbers 14:18, deut 5:9, exodus 20:5, exodus 34:7?
"both will die for their own sin" relates to [capital punishment sins] only, or sins punishable by death as being non-transferable. suvivorable punishments may serve to condition a group
there are two heavens "the kingdom of God" (governed by God) and "the kingdom heaven" (governed by the angels) and God finds fault even with His angels [Job 4:18]
Corporate sin requires corporate punishment, especially in cases where the family co-signs the evil by not correcting the fore-signs before judgement, like the sons of eli who were 'scoundrels.'
You can protect God from your children, and your children (and their children's children) from God, by never procreating.
When people sin, thevconsequences can fall on others. Look at Israel's suffering because David counted Israel. The lesson? Don't sin, because you never know who it will effect. There's an old saying about this phenomenon: "Noone sins alone."
I think I have a different perspective on this passage, and I am curious what people think of this idea:
I wonder if a better response would be to say that David's child just happened to have an illness just like anyone who happens to have an illness but not as a punishment.
Nathan interpreted this as being from God, but there is other evidence that Nathan was not a totally pure prophet of God. (Deuteronomy 18:20 and 2 Samuel 7:3-5). In other words, Nathan mistakenly thought that the illness was from God when really it was just happenstance.
I think the view presented in this video has the danger of accidentally justifying killing all children who are the result of adultery which sounds awful to me. (To be clear, I am not attacking Melissa; only the view presented in this video)
I think your reasoning is sound but a couple notes, 1) the Deu passage is teaching God's justice even if it's for human law. If it would be unjust for us to punish children for their parents sin, than it is God who has placed that standard and he wouldn't break his own law. 2), that passage is not the only one that speaks on this, all of Eze 18 is on this theme and it's God saying HE doesn't do this either and is angered by the accusation that he would. And clarifies that the 'soul that sins will die'.
But I think this is what you were trying to say, because God doesn't hold David's baby GUILTY. You can be affected by the sin of others, (murder, or crack-baby for instance) but you will not be held guilty.
We are too stuck in this legal paradigm when thinking about sin.
Yes, we can see sin as a crime that then gets punished - that's a prevalent description in Bible.
But we should also remember that sin is something that pulls us away from God who is the Truth, Love, Life, Meaning, Purpose and Existence - and what we call a "punishment" is just a direct consequence of us losing our connection with God.
Melissa, this makes so much sense.....Mahalo's (Thankyou) Pal....
What kind of question is that? Are you not familiar with your Bible? Book of Genesis? The Fall? Doesn't ring a bell?
In Deuteronomy God is giving earthly judges instructions on the punishments they can assign to people for certain crimes, and they cannot assign the same "generational" punishment that God Himself did couple of times in the bible.
If baptism would have remitted the full punishment for original sin, the sins of Adam and Eve. Those of us who are baptized, would be living in the garden of paradise and we would have no concupiscence. That is, we could not be tempted to sin by our own free will, we would have to be tempted by an outside source, like a snake! David was give a temporal punishment for his sins after he was forgiven of his sin. That's why we do penance not just for our own sins as members of Christ's Body, but for the sins of others also. If we are not members of Christ's Body we cannot do penance for our own sins or the sins of others!
The saints are not omnipresent.
They can't hear anybody on earth, let alone thousands or millions of people. They can't hear even one person.
On top of that they didn't die for sins, Jesus did.
Go to Jesus.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Or, alternatively, it could be understood that the baby of David and Bathsheba was not punished for David's sinning, but rather he died BECAUSE OF that sinning, and David who caused it was punished for his own transgression that way. And from symbolic perspective, is this child not a prefigure of Christ in some sense?
But in separation from that case, yes God can punish you for other people's sins. Yet not for what other people have done, but for your own participation in that act. You are not responsible for other people's actions, but you are responsible for your doings that led those people act like that. We all are connected with each other, and our words and deeds have influence on other people, and we are not seeking other people's good, we are causing them harm one way or another.
I don't see this event as punishing the baby. That baby went straight to Heaven! How is that punishment?? I wish that *I* were there! David & Bathsheba, however, were the ones punished by not being able to give love to, & raise their child. The baby was not punished for his father's (& mother's) sin.
yeah i wouldn't say God having the child die is "punishment". everyone dies because Adam sinned, but we don't die because of his sin, we die because we're all from Adam (his flesh) and he dies, so we all die.
also i disagree that we just change location, but you're right that there is an after-life, as in life after death. how? by the resurrection, believed all throughout scripture and demonstrated by Christ. nothing about us lives on after we die, or else you didn't actually die. that wouldn't be death. but we live after we die by the resurrection. God will resurrect that child into the kingdom at the return of Christ
In the Exodus God punished the sons and daughters of those whom he brought out of Egypt for worshiping a golden calf by making them walk around the desert for 40 years saying He will visit upon the iniquity of the third and fourth generations.
Those people did not enter the promised land for three and four generations because sin and iniquity, as God reveals, can be generational and Gods punishment was an act of generational refinement. The same is true with faithful families as well. When a family is, for the most part, obedient to God that family is blessed for generations.
When Job lost all his children and possession, it wasn't because of any guilt.
Rather, it was a showdown between the powers - the Creator and his rival!
Thinking about it, there's no such thing as an "innocent death"!
We are all destined to die because of what took place in Eden.
We can however be attributed with 'innocence', that is, to be justified! And yet it's still not an act of ours!
God still takes and gives, puts up and takes down at His bidding!
He is still God. The One in-charge!
God doesn't seek the justification nor approbation of no one!
Melissa, how can you allow the comment that appears as the top response to this video, to have collected at this point 106 likes, without admonishing the commenter for what is an utterly reprehensible assertion? Portraying the death of an infant as a form of punishment for the parents is not only unjust but also deeply hurtful. Parents who have lost a child often endure unimaginable anguish and heartbreak, which cannot simply be dismissed as a consequence of some supposed divine justice.
The baby isn't being punished by being taken home to God. The baby's life had it's full impact and was used by God in the life of David through the baby's absence which was the punishment for David to suffer. David had to walk the rest of his road alone w/o the baby. Some lessons can not be learned while the loved one is on this side of Heaven with the lesson learner, only after the loved one is gone away from the person to learn the lesson will the knowledge be given/achieved.
There is no worse punishment than your child dying. Both David and Bathsheba has to endure this punishment, to understand how grave their sin was. The infant was innocent, he was not being punished, as many here already have said, he went back to our Father, not having to endure flesh life. Considering that God placed each soul in the flesh body, I discern that this infant was deserving to pass by the trial of living in the flesh. The Bible tells us to lean not to our own understanding, so with this scripture in mind, I look at this through spiritual eyes instead of flesh eyes. God is always fair, executes judgment of correction for our own good, no matter how we view it with our flesh eyes. God wanted to get their attention, to bring their focus back to Him, make them see the depth of their sin. It may seem cruel, but it must have been necessary in God’s eyes. Too often we look at situations like this with the eyes of the flesh instead of our spiritual eyes. Just as the Bible says, God will leave the 99 to go after the one who is lost, how He does it is up to Him, but the end result is that one lost sheep was saved. Isn’t that who God is and what He does for us? He cared enough to go after David and Bathsheba, to bring them back to the fold. The infant was in no danger, but David and Bathsheba were.
who is "I" when referred to, and God is "It". so God disciplines "I". in other words "us". so who are the "many" of "us". better be few or one. dont think you own your sins. give them to God.
So in summary, the death of David's son was a consequence of David's sins as king, not a direct punishment of the child. And while this seems to contradict the Deuteronomy command, God as the sovereign Lord has the right to judge as he pleases, even if it involves the death of an innocent.
Also the son of David died because of David's sin, and later the Son of David died because of David's sin, our sin and the sin of all mankind.
According to the doctrine of original sin, we die because of our own sin. Even little babies are sinful and stained by Adam’s sin, according to original sin. That God allowed that baby to die as punishment to David does not minimize the fact that the baby was a sinner in its own right; the baby could only die because it is sinful itself.
Aren't we all punished for adam and eves sin. In fact all women are punished for eves deception by having to give birth and all snakes are punished for the serpents sin.
The baby wasn't punished. He is in paradise. David and Bathsheeba were punished by losing a child because of their adultery and because David had her husband killed
You have to rightly divide the word of God. We as Christian’s are to follow the apostle Paul to Jesus Christ.
At first I was thinking that a short life and being reunited with God is not a punishment to the child. Because they are eternally with God. However, to say that punishment for the sin of a parent, after Jesus’ forgiveness, is to take your child for payment of a sin doesn’t make sense either.
That is true, you must pay attention to who is being talked to. When you look at the whole counsel of God. Under the Law of Moses it they, the Jew, did good then they were blessed if they sinned then they were punished, cursed even until they repented and did the things required under the Law. David was being punsihed, he did the right thing after and became blessed. Then there is the consideration of the lineage of Christ and the promises of the kingdom.
The fathers have eaten sower grapes and the children’s teeth are set on edge. God said:”let not this saying be said in Israel. The soul that sins will die. The judgement was on David, not His Son.
Thank you for this video I was born and raised Jehovah's witness. You did a fine outstanding job.
What better way for God to punish King David for his sin than to take the life of the Son born from the sinful act of David and Bathsheba.
Stop pretending the bible is anything other than fiction. Get real, almost none of it is humanly possible. Not to mention there is no evidence for any of it. If it was real, it is so horrific that certainly doesn’t inspire worship.
The Bible talks about generational sin. Sin that is so bad. The consequences are passed on for generations.
It's more of a warning than a punishment, just as innocent people suffer and die due to a weak, ungodly and incompetent leader that many of them chose. Proverbs 29v2.
The baby was not being punished by dying. David is the one who suffered as a result of his baby’s death.
How i see it ,
David sin was great adultry was punish with death . However david baby son dying represented what Jesus was going to do david deserve to die but God gave his son to die for him . God took david son instead of Him or else he would die in sin . Bottom line He saved them both baby went to heaven
The loss of David's son also points to Jesus and His death for our sins.
I think God wasn’t saying a punishment, he was saying what the sin will do to the child. Sin kills
Did you teach them to do it, suggest it’s ok to do so, influence them to do so by doing it yourself, then yes
Different covenants in Jesus we are redeemed from curse of the law and WE are not Jobs
God's blessings from Bay City Michigan
I think your perspective and comments are pretty spot on.
To whom much is given, much is expected.
Does the death referred to not mean ETERNAL death?
Why do children die in wars or other catastrophes?
You are correct, Melissa, in your explanation. 😊
What about Achan and his family ...
This didn't answer the question at all.
David was judged, not His Son.
This explanation is good.
It's an assumption that David's son was being punished as a result of David's sin.
David's son was ill... God knew beforehand that the kid would be ill, and He gave David a heads up that the kid wouldn't recover (God never said that He would be taking the child's life, only that the child would die). Similar to how God didn't directly bring any calamity on Job's life, yet sovereignly allowed it, it's just as plausible that David's sin resulted in the blocking/removal of God's protection over David's household. God didn't actively kill anyone in that account, but informed David of the consequences of his actions.
The child died in sin. Death is the wage of sin.
The child wasn't innocent!
God is not guilty.
The depths of depravity theists will descend to in order to defend the bible never fails to take me by surprise. How you can make such an assertion that lacks such basic human empathy and then proclaim to worship a loving God is beyond me. You know what other demographic springs to the defense in the manner that you have? Battered women.
"He only gets angry because he loves me so much. I know deep down he's a good person."
"I probably deserved it. If only I had done things differently, he wouldn't have lost his temper."
"I must have provoked him without realizing it. I'll try to be more careful next time."
The Lord God is always good. Always perfect. Always loving and Always righteous. He owes no one in the universe ANYTHING since He gives life and sustenance to all. He owes us NOTHING..including an explanation for what He does. Full stop.
Correct! No debate! We need to know Scripture! This is why! ”Then I heard a voice from before the altar reply: “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty! Every judicial verdict you make is just and right.”“ Revelation 16:7 TPT
We said so! Not even the Eternal Almighty One!
To add to what Melissa said, one other thing that came to me is that the promise still had to run through David’s line. As David himself stated, the man who committed such an act should die. However, God still had to honor his promises to Abraham and the Messiah still had to be born through the line of David. Therefore, it is my belief that the ultimate justice/punishment that all would receive through Jesus the Messiah THROUGH the fulfillment of the promise superseded the justice/punishment that David should/would have received.
God allowed David to live because he still had a part to play in fulfilling God‘s promises and establishing the line to Jesus. Much like Abraham attempted to force God‘s hand through Ishmael‘s line, David would have done the same through the child born of adultery. God chose to do things His way by moving the line through Isaac and then Solomon.
I thought you gave a good explanation. This kind of put me in mind of Sarah and Abraham. Ismael was not Gods promise and nor was David’s first child with Bethsheba because they were born out of sin. In a sense Ishmael suffered because of Abraham and Sarah‘s sin and because God is holy any body that he called in the Old Testament had to exemplify his nature I thank God for Jesus!
To the point Melissa!
First it’s important to understand with David and Bathsheba that God says that children are the evidence of a matrimonial union under God. The 1st child would reward what David had done which was set up Bathsheba’s husband, covet his wife and try to cover it up to God. David is also held to a higher standard. - now concerning others. We cannot understand Gods absolute care of our lives. Some die to be soared of the future. Some are children of evil. Some are foolishly given to God as debt like jephthah. No answer will satisfy without faith first of all. Because we attempt to judge God through modern morality which is partly in conflict with the Lord.
So what you're saying is that for the baby, dying isn't a bad thing. It is for David and for Bathsheba. That does make sense. I also agree with your implication that the unpardonable sin can no longer be committed. A lot of people struiggle with that.
When I come across scripture that I don't understand, or seems to conflict with another portion of scripture, I submit myself to the Lord, tell Him, I don't get it and leave it with Him -- trusting, when I am ready (have become more mature in Him) that He will give me understanding with no confusion. I don't begin to try to figure it out. I leave it to Him to show me the truth when I am ready to receive it.
As I watched this it occured to me that the child was taken because David had literally broadcast that it was Uriah who was the father, not himself.
Any child born to David would definitely need to be known as a child of the King.
Melisa, my wife and I are watching your videos regularly. We have started watching one every morning to start our day. I really like the content and the people that you are interviewing and sharing with. This is just a praise comment to hopefully counteract any negatives you may get. Keep up the good spiritual food that you are providing.❤
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
Great response from my opinion ✅
His grace and mercy be upon you and your loved ones 🕊️🥛🍯
The punishment is on the ones who grieve. It's to hurt them. But the children who died in judgment are taken to Himself.
Fair points. I think the bottom line is in David’s case he was the one being punished not the baby. We may not like that idea but that should be a good reminder to avoid lust and other similar sins. God takes sin extremely seriously
Melissa first time I’ve come across your channel! Thank you for this content. Your reasoning theological view point is plausible. The concept of punishment of the sins of the fathers is not an exact science as some iniquities judgements may skip a generational, but the principles are true, that’s why we need to cleanse our bloodline from iniquities of our forefathers. I like your presenting well done!
It's David's punishment. The baby doesn't ever have to suffer.
by knowingly, deceiving -and willingly, your actions causes somebody to sin.