Hardware in 2022 So Passée
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
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Great article Barry.
Ever wondered why we evolved with two ears and one mouth? It’s so that we can listen twice as much as we talk 😊
Learnt so much from your channel, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your personality with us all.
Please keep going !!
Analog gear matters most in tracking, like you said. Record a vocal through a good microphone and an Avalon VT-737SP or a Manley Vox Box and it will sound way better going in and you won’t need much at mixdown. Good analog gear holds it value too.
The UA Manley Vox Box plugin with the unison technology is not bad when tracking.
I sold most of my gear and narrowed it down to my favorite microphones and preamps. Proper treatment to my room has made a bigger difference in the quality of my recordings than any piece of gear has so far in my journey. Great video
I like that Moon Dog. Proper Input and Output 👍 Most People forget about that and record poorly and don’t have a good listening environment. Then they try to compensate that mostly ITB but that’s totally the other way around how it should be. Great Post, thank you 🎉
Thank you very much for a Prize Barry, but i‘ve got no Telegram here…its not very common in Europe. (i guess 🤔) Thanks anyway 🎉 and thank you for your great Channel & your Opinions ✌️
What compressor do you used ? I wanted to get the cl1b hardware cause I want 3D sounding vocal
Workflow > Everything
If Hardware makes your workflow better don't hesitate to buy it
Love the humility in your approach to this conversation. Both analog and digital applications have their advantages and disadvantages. I work at a high-end studio where we do a lot of both. We talk about both, all day long. But the one thing we never do is argue about which one is objectively better. We just want to use what will achieve the desired result, period. And sometimes a plug-in is the obvious choice, other times it would be silly to reach for a plug in. What’s that thing that mix engineers are always saying… oh right. It just depends!!!
You rock dude. Great message. Never stop learning and putting forth your passion for creativity.
🙏
Thanks for your wisdom and experience I know I speak for a lot people on here who appreciate your videos
I havent finished this video yet, still listening- but Barry I love the tone of your vidoes. Something very refreshing and comforting about them- and you. Looking forward to hearing the rest. I have become an AccessAnalog subscription member recently, to really learn some of the nuances of hardware without having to shell out a ton of money. Interesting experience so far, definitely not what I initially expected. Thanks Barry!
Let’s play a drinking game, take a shot everytime Barry says “you know” 😉
If you only knew how many comments I get like this. Today it “you know” others it’s “ok” and a few others. Subconscious I guess, but I am who I am😂
Youre done after 10 min
It’s been 30 seconds and I’m TRASHED
@@HollerAtcherBoi you know! Drink!
I tried it, now I’m in the hospital with alcohol poisoning 😁
Barry, I’ve enjoyed your insight on many of the subjects you’ve brought to the table. Through your insight, I feel I have been able to make some better decisions moving forward on the road I’m on. I appreciate your channel and as always, look forward to the next video your making.
The truth is you don’t NEED hardware, but it sure is fun to use and sounds so sweet 😊
Well, there is that😁
Yes, that's why I bought a few real physical sythersizors after over a decade of software it was nice to get hands on with a dedicated sound making machines.
I often complain about people who make videos who have no business making them. They can't talk very well, they spend more time talking about themselves or wasting time telling us what they are about to tell us, etc. But thank you for being very intelligent, extremely well spoken, to the point, interesting and very professional. You made this video, as well as some others I have watched, very informative and pleasant to watch. Thank you. As far as plugins go; I don't own any and don't plan on using any. I use an old analog recording console, going into my PreSonus Studio One, using my DAW in place of my Ampex 24 track recorder. The price of tape is the only reason I went with a computer. So all my old analog gear is used on every mix, with none of the internal Studio One accessories ever used. I use all analog preamps to the DAW and analog compressors, equalizers, reverb units, and analog channel strips for the mix and then into a CD recorder. I am interested in the Focusrite ISA plugin but only if they make an ISA controller to go with us. I can't stand using a mouse.
Roy Thomas Baker tracked with everything balanced, compressed and EQ'ed. You could put up all the faders to 0 and it was a mix. After tracking it was just refining. Push here, pull there. maybe a little brightening or carve out more bottom, add a little more compression through a stereo bus, and dial in the mix bus. Then it was automating mute on tracks that had extra stuff that wasn't used.
Everything was already arranged.
Add verb, delay mix done.
First I want to say, love your channel. I have made my first foray into hardware recently for my second studio album and I can tell you in my experience there are LEVELS to this. There is something about the magnetism that hardware adds that is so hard to recreate. When mixing ITB I often find I need to add several processors to even get close. Density, Warmth, Space, Vibe, Depth, Punch, Separation, Sheen..... Analog :D. Still have no problems with saying that you can get great results ITB and I think its still a good way to go for many! But not me, I've been bit by the analog bug- HARD! Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
I bought a Monopoly because I wanted a good example of Analog.
I was bit hard too. I don’t record anymore withought a good mic, good preamp and a good compresor. There is a reason for the high prices, The higher you go on price the better things sound.
Analog has made my life easier when mixing and recording
Quickly becoming my favorite UA-cam show
Just bought a Prism audio interface just to go out to got back in to hit the converters. Just needed to get out of the box for that final stage of mastering and everything else is done in the box. Hybrid is the way. But how far you go can become cork sniffing. Mixing, tracking and mastering are all wildly different things that require different gear. But yeah get gear if it motivates you and gives you what you need.
What he fail to mention is that even though most tracks are mad ITB it’s all mastered using hardware plugins sounds good but no where as 3D full of life like hardware plugins still sounds flat even the ones with analog emulations .sadly not everyone can afford hardware. My
R personally has been mixing I
ITB for years and just went hybrid which is the way to go .hardware gives you that polish the plugins cannot do period .
Great video Barry! In my opinion, this video really clears the smoke and the misconceptions that people have regarding not only the differences between tracking and mixing but also when and where analog can be introduced. I believe it was Andrew Scheps who even mentioned that he tracks with analog, but tends to stay in the box afterwards. Me personally, I have found that hybrid really is the best mindset to have when considering hardware vs software. Finding those things that are useful for your workflow that are not emulated by software. or perhaps are not emulated well by software. I think also that anyone who is torn between whether to invest into hardware or not needs to consider where they are focusing in the market of engineering. Someone who is focusing on the concert hall, orchestral works and instruments, will most definitely be investing in some pieces of hardware, where as say in the EDM world a lot of that is created, produced and mixed in the box and almost always izotope Ozone is what everyone asks for on their mix or master. This was a great video Barry! Looking forward to more content from you!
Personally I find no real value to having hardware for mixing. I've mixed on vintage API and Neve consoles with some of the best outboard gear available, and no doubt ended up with fantastic results. But I have also had great results mixing fully in the box, to the point where in a blind test I (and many friends) could not pick which mix was objectively better. For me, I find that I get much better results when I use digital to its full potential, and not using it to try to emulate hardware units. Now that is not saying that hardware in 2022 is worthless to me. There is nothing better than tracking a band through a console and outboard. In fact I've found that projects I've tracked with outboard compression/EQ on input are way easier to mix. That is the real benefit of hardware to me. But for mixing I don't want to deal with recall for negligible results. Just my opinions, and everyone has their own opinions!
Also just to add that I feel no one should be investing in outboard hardware if their monitoring setup is sub par. Being able to hear what is happening in a song is way more important than an analog compresor on the mixbus.
Same
Thanks for the insight Barry. Started with fully in the box but now slowly getting into analog outboard gears. Cheers.
Spot on Barry! I think in general "most" people in this industry (pro or amateur) center their thoughts, direction and opinions around "Mixing" only, not the actual recording aspect which imo is mostly due to the fact most people can not afford the space, facility, operating expenses and resources alone that's required to record full size bands beyond 2+ artist much less the amount of analog hardware required to capture said music. Try capturing a live orchestra, church choir, Jazz band, Blue Grass band etc... with only plugins and a 2-input interface in your house. Good luck. I have personally worked with some of the top mix engineers in the world and they mix mostly in the box BUT they will be the first to tell you that most if not all of their work comes from medium to large studios who tracked all via analog and very little is needed to be done in the mixing stage when they get work to mix, in fact they are not looking to "fix problems" because that just adds more time and cost to their mixing process. There are Sooo many other resources needed to capture music from artist and bands that have to track live, such as having enough restrooms including handicap access for 10 to 30 people sometimes more. We have served upwards to 30+ artist, producers under one roof for more than a week with 8-12 hour sessions. That's a lot of food, coffee, space, chairs, toilet paper, first aid, microphones, cables, stands, preamps, Insurance premium cost, parking etc... I personally went into this field to provide a service that allow's artists to be comfortable, safe and find inspiration to give their best performance. It's a business.
Got a link to your portfolio Barry?
I've been doing film scores with cheap 80's n 90's compressors, fx and hardware. Main mixer is an old mackie. Hardware just has to be something you love to use and know the sound of. Tried in the box for years and just made nicer version of my college dorm studio setup.
The only real test is a blind test. Many plug-ins will match or beat the real thing. Obviously not all of them. Personally I like UAD plug-ins. Obviously you need a great microphone and a decent preamp for recording great vocals. But I sold my neve preamp because I prefer my Apollo x pres with my Soyuz 017 mic. No mud in the low mids.
I think hardware is still sold because it’s traditional, it impresses the clients, people like turning knobs and many hardware units sound great and have a good reputation. But I can hear what I’m making and I’m able to match or beat songs that required a team to make, imo.
15:00 says it all. Improving artistic vision matters SO MUCH MORE than even the biggest upgrade in gear.
Nice to hear advice from experienced and knowlegeable & balanced engineer, thanks for sharing 😀
nice talk, I've been running my label for 30 plus years and I can't stress this enough! grew up in the analog hybrid days! I tell people;e all the time...dont get caught up in the bells an whistles of have racks and of outboard gear!
What ? I love my hardware. It gets me to the end result faster. We also love turning the knobs. Why not go hybrid and use both.
So I use only analog hardware for processing. Tracks in my daw (pro tools) have hardware inserts on tracks I wish to process. I can get around 16 channels out to the analog world at once. I can set up a loop, turn the computer monitor off (decibel meter on ipad to check stereo mix level). All my analog gear has a volume so as well as eq and comp etc. I am levelling as well. The main reason is because I prefer to use my ears than eyes and I do not enjoy opening and closing plugins getting around the mix as well as working with a mouse. When I am finished I commit all the tracks to new tracks and with all faders at 0db you have a mix. Personally I do not think plugins cope with the top end correctly and if you do not have a decent convertor/speaker setup you will not be able to even notice the difference.
A good way to test this is to play a CD and compare to a lo res streaming platform like Spotify of amazon and see if you can notice the compression. If you can't then stick in the box with your plugins!
PTHD3 Here. Processing 👍🏽 I/O 👍🏽 a/d d/a conversion 👍🏽 different strokes for different folks. If you’re just getting started, go for in the box. As for clients (commercial) oh you will need a rig RIG 😆
I'm glad someone is saying this out loud. My setup changed from full analog with mixer & outbourd fx to Computer, plugins, Fireface UCX & Yamaha HS8's. I kept all the analog sound modules & synths. I play guitar so I kept the guitar rig but I record with virtual amps. It does not look as impressive but it sounds better and the workflow is better. Stop trying to look good & concentrate on being better creatively. A decent high spec computer is the ultimate multifunction device. It will outdo a $100,000 mixer & analog outboard setup. When you here /see people do a/b comparison online you always here the words "It's subtle". In most of those cases there is no difference.
After all that, just do what makes you feel good. 😎
Hi Barry a great video. I’m a guy who makes tracks in my shed I have uad plugins and that’s good enough for me. I’m happy with them some may not like it . But that’s how it is
It’s my hobby not my job. Keep up the good work. I’ll be still watching your videos 👍👍👍
I agree, there is certainly a place for hardware in the recording process. I started recording live performances in the early 70s using Webcor reel-to-reel decks that I scavenged. In the late 70s and into the 80s, I recorded on Ampex reel -to-reel decks from the 50s. In the 70s worked at a studio that had a Daniel Flickinger console (look it up). If I was recording a live band and budget was no object, I would book the best studio with vintage audio gear like Blackbird, The Village Recorder, or East/West.
I visited studios like The Village Recorder, The Record Plant, United Western, and others when I was LA editor for Mix Magazine and the outboard gear in those studios was mind blowing. That said, recording techniques have changed quite a bit since then. Most recording no longer takes place in studios loaded with well-maintained vintage gear. Most of it no longer is recorded on expensive consoles from Neve, API, SSL, etc. There is certainly a market for hardware gear. Mic preamps, analog EQs and compressors will always be popular for tracking.
However, I believe that the current explosion in analog gear has much more to do with image, marketing, status, and profit margin than it does with necessity. Studios want to look as impressive as possible and therefore buy an array of hardware (even if it is seldom used). And the profit margin for analog gear is huge for manufacturers and dealers. I sold electronic components for decades and if you open a lot of those pieces of pricey gear and add up the BOM component costs, you will find it is a small fraction of the retail price. And many, if not most, of the designs are copied from classic hardware gear. What would be cool is to see people building their own custom gear again. When I visited the late Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab/LA, all of his analog gear was hand built by his brother, Sherwood. And Sunset Sound used to build their own custom consoles. And Bill Putnam of United/Western designed and built his own gear (now Universal Audio/UAD).
And as you stated, unless you are a millionaire or Chris Lord-Alge, you cannot possibly afford to record and mix exclusively with outboard gear.
As for plugins sounding as good or better than analog gear, that is certainly subjective. Plugins are all over the place in terms of quality and faithfulness to analog designs and they certainly sound different as analog gear ages and components fall out of spec. Plugins sound exactly the same every time--good, bad, or indifferent. The real proof is in analyzing the waveforms produced on a scope. That tells the real story. In any case, it is up to each individual music producer or studio owner. If it sounds good to you, that is all that matters as I doubt that the average listener can tell the difference or really cares.
Loved this.
I think, as with anything, that hardware vs software depends on a few things.
Firstly, what are your goals? Most of us don't do this for a living so what the software does is provide an affordable entry point into recording. I started on a cassette 4 track when I was 14 and graduated up to the MD8 then to Pro Tools and now Logic/LUNA.
So my goal is the same as it was when I was 14: to make a good sounding record that I can share and play live. Compared to that Yamaha 4 track an Apollo, some good quality emulations and a decent microphone are affordable and are all I need to do that for both tracking and mixing. I think this is true for any hobbyist who doesn't have a day job that pays them loads of money. Prior to the advent of the DAW and the subsequent improvements in quality there simply wasn't a way for us to fulfill that dream or to help others do that. Now there is.
If I were to start a commercial studio I'd obviously invest in the requisite room treatment, outboard gear and a good mic collection because it's future proof and provides the highest audio quality possible.
You see I detest snobbery. Hardware or software, I dislike the idea that you can't make a 'real' record unless you have hardware x, interface x, plugin x etc.
Imagine if the Beatles didn't record Sgt. Pepper because they didn't have 8 tracks?? Does anybody care that their records would probably have sounded 'better' if they were done through a 24 track Neve and mixed on an SSL? Nope. The closest you'll ever get to knowing that is by listening to the remixes (which DO sound better).
Bottom line is this: Make the best art you can. Learn proper recording technique. Perform your music with as much emotion as you can. Learn proper mixing technique. Make it sound as good as you can with whatever gear you have. Your Aston Origin through a Neve emulation into your laptop might not sound 'as good 'as a vintage U47 through a real 8088 into a Studer tape machine but in 2022 it WILL be close enough that you can be proud of it if you focus on craft, performance and sound audio production techniques. This is why channels such as yours are so valuable; they teach us craft so thank you, and every pro like you, for sharing their experience.
I wish I could make my record in Abbey Road on all that vintage gear with the Hearbreakers as my band, Butch Walker or somebody of that calibre producing it and a top level mixer like Michael Brauer mixing it etc. but that's not going to happen. If I waited for that, or a close approximation, I'd never make any music at all... and isn't that why we all got into this in the first place? To make music???
This is a super interesting video. Thanks for this. I am a guitar player and have a few classic tube guitar amps in my little collection. Plexi, JCM 800, AC30, Super Reverb, Tweed Champ. I checked also the best plugins. The plugins are good nowadays and of course you can make awesome music with them. But for my taste, the amps are still the thing. When it comes to mic pres and compressors, the differences are not so huge for me. This might be, cause i am not a recording engineer. But, i would totally understand, if you say, that a physical 1073 is better than the plugin. Maybe the same as like the amp comparison.
I personally use the Apollo X4 with the 1073 Plugin to record my guitar and drums. Do i like it? Yes. Might it be better with real micpres and compressors? I don´t know yet, but i assume yes. Do i have the money for 4 1073´s and 4 1176 hardware? No. But in the future i would like to have this. Which micpres and compressors would you suggest? Budget?
Subscribed and greetz from Germany. Carsten ✌🏼
I believe the pro mixers and engineers really do squeeze all of the value out of analog gear they can. For me, my in the box mixes were better and easier to do 7 mixes corrections because the guitarist wants his solo up 1db.
I mixed hybrid for a couple of year. Spent thousands of dollars outboard, only to sell it off. The stuff does hold it's value. I kept my Distressor and Pacifica for almost a decade. For Home Studios, I think it's good to have a compressor around if you record vocals. I replaced the Distressor and Pacifica with an Apollo, which is close enough for me.
If people want to work analog that's their choice. I think it's a personal preference, great music is made both ways. For me, the juice just wasn't worth the squeeze with hardware.
The only piece of gear I owned that blew me away was a TG1. I haven't found a plugin that can come close to the hardware, but that thing was almost $3,000!
I now drive a 2006 Toyota Crapolla. I paid $2300 for it! LOL!
Thank you for you do ,I’m in atlanta I do rap music and music save my life kept me out of trouble people like you I dream of meeting and learning
For me it has been a full 360 and I now have been acquiring hardware because I realize big picture that it will hold value. Plugins behind a fraction of the value you of pay for them the minute you buy them. Also you are relying on someone else after the purchase to ensure it will remain compatible with your computer and daw going forward.
I made my final purchases earlier this year and have begun my transition to hardware and I love it but it isn't for everyone. I have got most of my gear broken and repaired it and gotten the rest used and this has driven the price for me down a lot.
I also think on the musical journey you should follow your heart and purchase things when you feel you have become limited with what you have.
I spent a decade using stock reaper plugins, then a few years with good freeware plugins, then finally took the plunge on paid plugins and to date have probably spent less than a grand on plugins waiting on deals.
Now I am going hardware to ensure for the future if something bad happens or I pass away, my loved ones can recoup most of the cost of my gear for emergencies or my death.
I like that hardware isn't always 100% repeatable, I like that the circuits don't always react the same way to stuff. I think those small things we can't control add to the character of a track, and teach us a valuable lesson on learning to let go and stop tweaking, the mix is done.
Great content, as usual. Thanks so much, Barry!
Devices are just nice, touchable and enjoyable to own and use. My preciousss...
Can you give us some links to songs that you have produced. I would love to hear them. You seem to really know your stuff.
Hey Barry! Love your channel and I love what you do brotha but, I will say (at least in Hip Hop) there are MANY producers who produce, track and mix at home. To be completely honest and it wasn't the norm when I started doing it but, in 1991 my biggest song was mixed in my former home (albeit on a full sized console) using 2 Akai Adams units that recorded 12 channels per unit. Obviously, that's not the average bedroom studio but, I'd like to push back a bit with one point. Today's technology gives the home producer weapons that we couldn't have imagined 25 to 30 years ago. Is it better to mix in a perfectly tuned room? Yes! but, I would argue it's probably just as important to replicate the end user's environment (cars, earbuds, headphones, etc.) when mixing tracks for the masses.
On your analog vs plugin point... I totally agree with you! Most tests I've seen comparing the two, are merely taking a simple riff out of context and they do A & B comparison but, when you run multiple tracks through a piece of hardware vs plugins (usually) you immediately hear the added density in the mids and lows. However, I do have a sh*tload of plugins too! LOL. Keep up the great work boss!
I use both but man oh man tweaking knobs on a computer really sucks, especially with my enormous neatherdal hands.
the only reason I don't have the hardware versions is I can't afford it yet. Oh but I will.
Started out on an Alesis HD24, Mackie 24.8 and mixing into an Alesis Masterlink with a rack full of DBX and Drawmer Comps. We are in the greatest time to be alive and into pro audio 🙌🏾. Absolutely loooove plugins. Wouldn't mix without them. However, the only way I will let go of my hardware 1176 is if someone prys it from my cold lifeless fingers 😂
Alexis Masterlink...that takes me back. True confessions: I held on to my Masterlink until just...last...year. Yep, it just sat in my rack until I finally said to myself: "it is time." I haven't used it in years, but I was so reluctant to get rid of it because when I used it, I really loved using it. It was so cool. I got virtually nothing for it 😕, but I can say that I got my money's worth out of it back in the day. Thanks for the cool memory!
Important hardware 2022: Microphone(s), Audio Interface, Pre Amp(s), Compressor(s) for recording, Speakers/Monitors, Headphones and a computer. Plugins; well, I agree, most DAW's are enough with the plugins that comes with them. What you cannot buy is still the most important thing; knowledge and experience, and the more of that you have the more you know what you do not need regarding plugins and hardware. New plugins are often just a way to make money off of those who don't understand that they don't really need them. The wheel gets invented over and over again, but it will not make it sound any better... if you know what you're doing that is... Thank you for great videos!
Well, I need to use hardware in my home studio. But I run a two inch, no DAW. I stopped dealing with computer gear and software upgrades, usually I pick up free used tape from studios cleaning up their closets. I tend to process with the hardware on the way to tape, doing much HF boost or compression during mixing brings up the hiss and bias rocks.
Decent analog gear, primarily transformer and tube preamps tend to create tracks that are "ready to mix". It's the sound we all grew up with and recognize as "radio ready". Tracks recorded straight to the interface A/D are VERY clean and very different, actually RAW is a better term. I find myself tweaking these tracks much more than "preamped" tracks to get them to sit in a mix properly. If you just grab a Warm Audio WA-412 or a couple of WA-73EQs, you haven't spent a ton of money and you have the option to get that sound at tracking time. Honestly, a couple of channels worth will work 90% of the time. The main thing to avoid is believing you need dozens, multiple racks worth of these channels, you really don't. Once you're in the box, I agree, there's very little need to jump back out.
I got my start in the analog days. Does analog hardware sound better than plugins? For the most part yes it does. Do plugins sound good enough for professional work? For the most part yes they do. But anyone starting out in recording in my opinion should start in the box with a limited list of plugins. Analog gear is just too much to learn for the newbies. In the box has a simpler signal flow and a limited list of plugins teaches how to get the most out of the least gear. A patch bay alone is daunting. Stomp boxes for guitars are similar. Learn how to get a good sound straight out of the amp. THEN start adding pedals to resolve any shortcomings in your tone.
Rowe and I think I remember you from my day is over the DUC. I’m sure you realize that when watching the video, I touched on, just about everyone of your points, and I’m sure you realize we agree on all of that.
Yes you did, I was merely agreeing with you. But what’s the DUC?
@@bridgestreetdesign I may be getting you mixed up, could it possibly be gearsluts? Both are online forums, and I remember in the past communicating quite a bit with someone with the same name as yours. Could be just a coincidence.
Thanks for watching man. I really appreciate it!
Yes it must be coincidence, but it’s nice to meet you now!
1000 % Agree !... Peoples can have a discussion about EVERYTHINGS when it was civilazed... BUT when it comes to be "personnal" or agressive... NO MATTER if the points was good or not , There is NO MORE utility OR positive things to retain about ... LIKE you`re channel ! Hello from Quebec Canada !!
I think a big component is workflow. On more digital productions with an occasional live instrument, there is probably little need for outboard gear other than vocal mic or two and an audio interface.
But for someone who records drums, bands, set monitor mixes, and what not, there is a workflow of getting a good sound on the way in. And alot of that involves hardware.
There are options for doing this digitally now but with caveats.
1. Use native plugins, (have to worry about latency, buffer size, fast computer, relearning how to work plugins to get sound you was getting in hardware).
2. UAD style interfaces. (have to invest in UAD technology and be tied down to that which can make PC upgrades trickier as UAD tend to use Thunderbolt, or formats that aren't common on typical PCs).
So alot of people choose to stick with what they are familiar with. As if you had to setup a 16 track recording of a band, many variables would be involved and engineer would want some assurance they got things right. If plugin mix sounds different, or workflow is too different, that can be a problem with recording engineer.
I think mixing is a bit different as engineer usually have time to evaluate what they have and can make slower decisions, but recording you can be more under pressure to be ready and not have musicians waiting and sound good.
That said I'm sure there are people doing it all digital with no effects, but that is still an new workflow and is not always inspiring.
Basically if just recording one audio source raw, there is probably enough patience to deal with peaky hard to hear recordings, tonality issues. And if decided to monitor with effect plugins, not that difficult to do.
but when recording multiple instruments, these problems multiplies and that's where outboard helps.
I think another component is styles such as Rap, where a good vocal is important, where producers use outboard to sculpt a great sound before recording, and just find analog easier to work with (or alot of times more familiar). But I've seen producers really work plugins to get a killer virtual vocal chain using native plugins. That said he probably would have a harder time recording a band.
I bought a warm vca bus, and now I'm blowned away by what I've been missing. Hardware makes everything sound better, just better.
If I had the money, I’d be looking to get two pairs of channel strips (Neve / API) and a summing mixer. But at this time, that’s just not feasible for me. The UAD preamps and preamp / EQ / compressor plugins sound good enough for me for tracking vocals and guitar amps - and far superior to my old in-the-box set-up from years ago.
You have a good style and presenation.
It’s going to be hard for a lot of producers to make it, because of the heavy marketing being pushed by UA-cam content creators.
The distraction is massive
I sure hope you’re not talking about me. Because if you watched this video, you wouldn’t think that about me. Frankly, if you had ever watched any of my videos, you would know that I am the complete opposite of everything you’re implying. I won’t take sponsors, I refuse to take endorsements, I simply speak my mind. I have upset more audio manufacturers than you can imagine, Telling people the truth.
Please don’t rush to judgment, why don’t you actually watch the video, I think you’ll have a completely different perception of me. Maybe, maybe not, I don’t know.
I do think you’ll find that within the first couple of minutes, I make a point that will probably hit home.
@@BarryJohns its not about you people fight about things that dont improve them and you should not pay them much attention.... your contents are valuable
I definitely want to use hardware if I can ever afford it 😅 untill then we are luck to be in a time where everything is accessible through plugins
I am a guitar player and I have to say, I think that tools that do the thing we love to do, and do them well, its worth buying hardware IF YOU USE IT. I prioritize buying plugins over hardware for home mixing and recording, where possible, because that's what my budget and interest level as an amateur are best for. Can folks who put together big analog racks of stuff outdo what I can do? I sure hope they can, because if they can't then they DID waste their money. Buying stuff ain't it. Knowing your gear and using it to its full capability; That's IT.
When it comes to playing guitar, which is what I want to put the effort in and shine at. You bet my rig is 100% hardware and it's a mix of digital hardware and analog. The compressor and distortions are 100% analog. I rarely hear a digital emulation of a FET fuzz circuit that sounds like an analog fuzz circuit. The fuzz circuit, legend tells us, is based on a glitch in a recording console that caused harsh clipping. A faulty analog console created the fuzz pedal as we know it. Isn't that cool? Will digital fuzz emulation plugins eventually exist that sound good to me? Probably.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on what microphones and preamps are a good value for home songwriting and home demo recording, when recording vocals and acoustic instruments at home (guitar, piano).
Yup!! Also what ive noticed with most these big name engineers that say they mix itb is that a majority of the time everything is still getting ran through their console which makes a huge difference! And with that they have some of the best converters with some of the best speakers as well! Everything is not being recorded on their at2020 into their focusrite solo and then mixed with all plugins not running through any hardware through their yamahas hs8’s lol. Dont get me wrong if you know what your doing you can make decent music with that but dont let these big name engineers fool you to think theyre all itb cause theyre not.
Hmmm that’s the catch people fail to realize .all those big hits are mad in the box and mixed or pre mixed in the box. You bet it’s all mastered using hardware which gives fullness depth and width which plugins still to this day. Cannot do well even the emulation sounds nothing like the real thing
Barry. Good video. The one think I would like to point out is that for most people great hardware is out of their price range. So then the temptation is to buy cheaper hardware that they can afford. The comparison then becomes plugins vs not the greatest hardware, which is probably another discussion in itself.
I know that I have been tempted to fill my 500 rack with “stuff” and when I scratch the surface, it’s really for aesthetics.
Most people who say plugins sound better than hardware, never used the hardware
Some great points. I'm not bias one way or the other but you mentioned some stuff I never considered.
Think of the difference between hardware and software as follows.
Hardware is like having your wall hang full of paintings. They're nice, they're the real thing, but they take up a lot of space, and they're expensive. Also, you cannot expose them to direct sunlight, they need careful maintenance, you need to insure them against damage or theft, etc.
Software is like having a stack of prints of those paintings on your desk. Your wall is uncluttered, and while perhaps the print is not "the real thing", whatever that means, they're good enough. If you ever lose one of these prints, they can be easily reproduced. You can have a print of a Van Gogh, and you don't need insurance either. But you do need a large desktop, because otherwise you're always leafing through the prints to look for a specific one.
For me, it's not an either/or. Both have their merits, and both have their challenges. I have a nice 1990s rack of synth modules, and I have software, too. Currently I only have plug-in processors, but I want to look at hardware in the future.
What I find saddening, though, is that every UA-camr with a certain number of subscribers at some point feel compelled to react to - shall we say - strongly expressed opinions in the comment section. There shouldn't be a need for that.
great talk!!! we have the same beliefs!!
Great video!! I am new to your channel and I love it. I would love to hear your opinion on guitar plugins more specifically (amplitube, neuraldsp, etc). Anyway, thanks for the great content!
I may never be able to afford good enough analog hardware to be worth jumping in that rabbit hole, but I'm certainly intrigued at the potential of analog to improve my music. I might have to give a service like Mixanalog a try one of these days -- might be a good way to A/B results we get out of our software emulations vs the real deal.
Maybe its bit different cus im im the hophip world but i have made things so simple high quality gear and i produce,record,mix & then master all my own projects Now sometimes it takes any where from 4 mixes to 15 mixes to get the song to where it is as best as it can be.
Love your video. I am a hybrid and do both. Analog must have more authenticity because of the changes of components and temperature, especially live. A guy said I had hum on my guitar amp. I told him its the nature of the thing. For me it’s mastering and understanding the “whatever you do”. And it takes more than one life. Voila my 2 cents:-)
I do agree with the way that you mix in the box and track using some external equipment. I just purchased a SSL Alpha Channel which I put as an upper lower level channel strip, but it is great for my voice. I am using an Apple M1 MacBook Pro, RME UCXII interface which is amazingly clean and a Focusrite Clarett+ for drums. The Alpha Channel adds more depth and the harmonics are very good for my voice and it works great with my Rode NT2a. I also have a couple of other lower level channel strips that have their place; a PreSonus Eureka and dbx 376. I am using the Eureka for acoustic guitar and then use the dbx for bass guitar or horns.
We are getting ready to start tracking my first non-release release...it is for family and friends, in 20 years. Where as I have a voice that is barely acceptable, the female vocalist who will be track has a crystal clear, beautiful voice. So her voice will work better with a better channel strip. I am thinking something along the lines of an Avalon 737s and I will probably get a good Neumann for her. So it is all about picking the best equipment for the job at hand and person doing who is doing the job.
Side note: I am heading to New York in January to track an album for the band that I tour with as a FoH Engineer. It is a 70's - 80's band that had several hits and is still touring. We will be using mostly external pre-amps for tracking. My job is simple, get a sound that the mix engineer will be able to use and be happy with when he/she takes over.
I enjoy what you are doing; keep up the good work. You and I don't always agree, but that is OK since we are both adults and can respect each other's views.
I've recently discovered your channel you are very knowledgeable I have a question for you I was just gifted and apogee ensemble and a digi 003 do you think they are still viable or should I purchase a apogee symphony desk I'm currently using a focusrite Scarlett 2i2
The ensemble is great, the 003 is a solid control surface but bad conversion. You can connect the ensemble to the 003 via ADAT and only use the ensemble’s as your conversion.
I have too many plugins, mic pre plugs via UAD included to be used in their Console app. Having said that, I have hardware but only mic pres, nothing else. I'll use them when I want to go for something a little different (like we all should be doing with our "painting" tools).
Can we get back to ripping on Avid now? lol
Plugins today sound great. But in order for them to sound as good as hardware you would need to have infinite bit rate and infinite sample rate. There for no matter how good they get hardware will always sound a little better. Acustica comes very close but the CPU usage shows what it takes to do so. Also hardware doesn't become redundant when the company folds, it actually is worth more over time. Does the last few percent make it really worth the investment, that's up to you. But there will always be a place for hardware no matter how good plugins get. There will always be people who are at a stage in their career where they want the best, even if not in mixing but at least in tracking.
A good preamp will do wonders to workflow. There is no digital plugin that matches my UA twinfinity quality. Also the retro 176 is the greatest compressor I have ever heard on vocals, strings, or an acoustic. Digital is so convenient, but hardware takes the cake. Maybe one day we will get to the point where digital is just as good!
I’ll take analog all day in most cases. I’m pretty much over buying plug-ins, BUT, I still really freaking love Fabfilter 😂
Barry, I'm sorry some folks were jerks about this subject. It's not like I did anything, but still, it's not fun. I appreciate your content and your perspective.
To me, it's kind of a balance in all things situation right. I can do the vast majority of my work in the box and be fine. So much of the work is the performance and knowing how to best use the tools you have regardless of what they are. But does that mean analog is pointless? Certainly not. I think it comes down to the economy of your particular situation. One of the best purchases I made was an affordable tube channel strip. Running a 57 through that and pairing it with an ml2 using models for a best of both worlds approach has resulted in some of my best rhythm guitar tones. My next desired outboard purchase is some sort of 2 bus processor with a variety of modules - like the ssl fusion. That way I can get analog flavor on the way in and way out (to print).
I think with the music economy changing a lot of artists and small studios are asking the question what do I really need vs what would be cool to have. If we spend lots of money on analog hardware then we either have to eat that cost or pass it down to the clients. Well, what does your clientele look like? What do your operating costs look like? What genre are you working in? There are so many different factors involved that a simple "hardware good" vs "hardware bad" answer seems I'll suited to the true purpose of the question. Which you address in your video.
There are some pieces of gear that I think would be great for the current music economy that I haven't seen. Like an affordable 8 channel mixer with ADAT i/o to work as an expansion to almost any tier interface that would let one run mics through decent preamps, EQ, and compression before hitting the DAW with all 8 channels rather than a 2 mix. Explicitly for the purpose of getting some analog flavor on the input phase without spending an arm and a leg.
So I think what a lot of people may be searching for is how do I get the best of both worlds and how do I find good analog or digital gear for the most important stages of the process at my budget level so as to get the best sound in the most cost efficient way. Which is a puzzle many of us spend years piecing together.
Anyway, just some thoughts from a nobody on the internet, lol. Hope everyone is and stays well.
I think the margin between hardware vs plugins is narrowing exponentially, we really are in a revolution with regards to plug-in emulations. Add the expense of hardware and most home recording guys like myself just make do with the ITB approach and just can't justify the potentially thousands of dollars for a piece of hardware that A most casual Listener won't ever know the difference and B likely to never recoup that money via streams or sales (that's a whole other discussion). So from that perspective it does make it hard to justify the expense. As you eluded to, a great producer who really knows his tools could make great music in the box.
Hi Barry! I've been curious about this topic for a while and I was wondering -- could you provide me with a specific example of what you mean? E.g. When it comes to [this], analog equipment is better than digital for [this] reason.
Talking about beating the dead horse… I’ve got this kind of discussion/debate about gear for 25+ years now.
There’s no need to do it again and again… and again. Hardware in 2022 is indeed so passé! Of course we can make (good) music with it, we’ve done it for decades in the past when we had no other options. But in 2022, we have other (better) options. I’ve been doing music in studios for 30+ years now, 2” tape recorder, Large Format Analog Console, Analog Outboard gear, you name it. Been there, done that! Now, I’m more than happy with plugins on my M1 Max laptop.
It’s a dead horse to you…..there is a reason I made it, due to overwhelming comments from users. The world is a big big place full of folks from all levels of experience and they will never stop occurring. In that sense, no topic is a dead horse for the masses, but rather only a select few. There are a lot of comments so far in this video that make that pretty clear….just sayin’.
We all must be careful to never assume others with our same passion are on the same plane as us, there are always be people on a higher plane of knowledge and experienced and always folks just getting started……and in-between…..
Hardware is NOT limited to analog outboard. You also have Hardware synths. I still have a collection of outboard Hardware ROMpler synths such as the EM-U Proteus Mo-Phatt Module, Roland Integra-7, Roland Fantom-XR, Yamaha Motif Rack ES. I still use sounds from those Hardware rack mount Modules today that you wouldn't in soft synths as I kept them as my legacy hardware synth collection. My Integra-7 blends old school with new school as its basically half Jupiter 80 and half XV-5080 in one box. I'm basically Hybrid as I use a combination of analog hardware/syth hardware and soft sythns/effects plug-ins for Music Production and Hybrid mixing. I have one side of my Argosy desk full of outboard hardware synths and the other side full of analog hardware of mic pres, Compressors... hardware also last for decades and you own it!
I really like the more chilled “discussion” vibe of this video versus some of your rant videos. On the topic of the video, I think you are never more right than when you mention the “pie chart” scenario. Of course there are examples of production/mixing anomalies out there (the two that I always here are Finneas/Billie Eilish for mixing and Bruce Springsteen for recording an early record all with an SM58) but the huge majority of albums are at least treacle’s with hardware if not mixed with some as well. Maybe the spot where a lot of people get confused is that pre-production on songs HAS actually become a lot more artist driven in terms of vocal treatments and sound design. But that doesn’t mean everyone just mixes their own records. A big genre where the self mixed/mastered thing bucks this trend is EDM. Loads of EDM artists self mix and self release.
Hello,
I’m building my studio and I would like to ask you for some help. I’m bouncing around trying to figure out what would be a good setup. I’m wanting a pro studio for the love of music not a business. I’m looking at api the box console/ trident/ or maybe just a rack of preamps. Thanks
foundation of your recording starts from chosing right instruments, tones and acoustics, foundation of your mix starts from the quality of recording recording chain pieces, foundation of your release ready mastered track starts from a well balanced not overwhelmed or overprocessed mix. And if you have all these elements and tools in your bedroom, ALL starts from the hope you better have also a really serious anti-theft system to keep safe your $ 50K woth bedroom 😂
Hi Barry, love your Chanel... just one thing on this one, "paseé" is spelled passé ;)
Crap, you’re right🤦♂️
Now fixed….Thanks🙏
Love the insight! Good stuff
Well said Barry!
Everything this guy says is 100% what I’ve come to learn myself through my years of experience. Hybrid is king. No doubt about it. Using nice hardware on the front end and professional plug-ins for mixing has made my productions indistinguishable from top commercial music. Not that you can’t use hardware in the mixing/mastering process also, I just don’t quite have the budget for that; and not that you can’t complete a decent project 100% ITB tracking to mastering. But I’ve found, and I’d really like to know if anyone else has felt this before, is that nice analog hardware can make a cold, lifeless, flat, thin digital source feel warm, 3-dimensional and real, and when u add that difference up across 20 to 100 tracks you end up w a HUGE difference at the 2-bus. I feel I can speak on this because I’ve been ITB exclusively up until a couple months ago and the difference is fresh in my mind and my ears and it is undeniable for me.
And to add to the point that you CAN complete a project 100% ITB, I’d say it depends on the genre. Most dubstep tracks are ITB and they make anything coming out of billion-dollar studios sound wimpy and small.
I was one of the first people in my state to buy a rackmount digital delay in the early 80s. A few years later I had a fridge full and then of course I had to lug it around. Back, then I was wondering, seeing as how it was digital when someone would take it out of the box and stick it in a computer? I don’t think I will ever go back for using hardware. Folks should spend their money on things that really matter like monitors Headphones, microphones and decent leads.
Thank you for opening up these conversations with such humility and depth! I believe the artist that works with a label, analog gear and reaches the intended listener with good music, is successful. I also believe the artist that recorded in their bedroom and shipping the mastering off to LANDR (or similar service) and reaches their intended audience is successful. Gear will not save a bad song, and it won’t make or break a great song. If you have gear, that’s awesome but I don’t see it as necessary for success
plugins won't save a bad song either. if u lack the skills, your mixes will be garbage doesn't matter if u have plugins or hardware. no one's saying hardware equals success. only people who mix itb come up with that kind of argument.
Heeeey Barry’s back!!
Just use what ever makes you happy🎉
Like the old adage goes, “there’s more than one way to skin a cat”. We will all gravitate towards accomplishing the art of what we do with infinitely different methods and hardware devices or software plugins to create something that sounds pleasing to ourselves, to our clients and hopefully to people who will like what they hear that makes them want to purchase it in some form or another and in the process, enrich all of us, making the world a more interesting and inspiring place in which to be.
Sound wise I reckon plugins are more than fine to get the job done. To me, and I realize it's just a personal preference, I just find the workflow of making music in the computer deeply tedious and uninspiring to the point where it kills my passion for music. Having my hardware around is fun and speeds up the workflow when tracking so the inspiration can be kept up. I'm only set up to mix itb and that's why I've stopped taking mixing jobs (in the studio thats is, my day job is mixing foh) , I only do tracking these days.
I like analog summing but not a fan of analog inserts, too many conversions. Get that sound you want from the get go. I enjoy a drum buss, instrument buss, a vocal buss and a bass buss, all with analog compression, eq and saturation mixed to a master buss with compression, eq and saturation then one conversion back to digital. Very quick to get that Hugh sound with little effort.
Anybody have thoughts on Daking mic pres?
I used software for mostly 15 years, and have about 40 software sythersizors in DAWs or VST plugins however, I wanted to own some good examples of real hardware. I got a Navation Peak and Bahringer Monopoly, I like having them but they dont actually feature in any finished project.
So...here's my take. If you're a pro, working with pros, then you have access to hardware. All of it you could want, especially in tracking. If you're working for a major, it's in a big, established studio. They don't have the time or the money to fool around with questions.
If, like 99% of people, that doesn't describe you...use what you like. If the quality difference was obvious, the discussion wouldn't be happening. The important thing is avoiding the trap of not doing what you love because you don't have some piece of gear you think you need. Figure out how to do without while you save up either for the gear or to work with a studio that does.
Great points as usual 🙂
a good 500 vocal chain makes sense if you want to save time.
Started with hardware, ended up in the box.
WHATEVER makes you inspired to get that next mix done!
Even if outboard gear is pointless there are a lot of things we do that's pointless but we do it anyway. So if you want it and you've got the money then go for it.
Guilty of being a keyboard warrior on your videos in the past. Apologies. I do really love your content.
Very good discussion! You are covering a VERY wide gamut of issues with a delicate and intelligent touch. Wish I could sit and discuss these topics with you. I agree that hardware is not necessary. What a person needs is a good song. Then bring that to life the best way you can with what you have. As your intellect expands (knowing how to use the plethora of cool effects and instrument plugins in your DAW), you can decide which additional things you need. That could be effects plugins, VST’s, a better mic or hardware processors. People need to understand that mixing in the box is normal, because every mic recorded track is already using hardware on the way into the box. Now you already have that analog "thing" in your mix. My advice? Go slow, do your research. Realize that sometimes, you will make the wrong choice and that is okay. Take it as a lesson learned and keep going. In the meantime, watch more videos from Barry Johns!
Thanks for your comments as well as support, it’s truly appreciated!
Barry one thing I love about your perspectives is the fact of how real, sincere and at times non bias and solid. Man I thank God for you man.