My Fav So Far! First Time Hearing "China Cat Sunflower -- I Know You Rider" | Grateful Dead Reaction
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- #gratefuldead #thegratefuldead #chinacatsunflower #iknowyourider #reaction #firsttimereaction
Timestamps:
00:16: Introduction
02:24: Reaction
17:42: Thoughts
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I have no intent of claiming this music or video as my own, I am simply reacting to this video and transforming it by adding my own constructive feedback and commentary.
Two notes max. The toughest two songs to pick out, for me, have always been "Iko Iko" and "Man Smart, Woman Smarter", they are almost identical and you have to wait until they start singing to figure it out. One of the best songs from the "Downhill From Here" video from this run at Alpine is "Cumberland Blues". The shots from behind the band towards the crowd are amazing. 60,000 people dancing. My friends and I went to Alpine Valley in 1988. Loved it.
That's like phish's Bowie and Maze. Back in 93 they were practically the same beginning.
If you listen closely you'll eventually hear the difference between Bob starting Man Smart, and Jerry starting Iko Iko. After a while they are pretty distinct. Happy listening!
I can name that tune with one Jerry lick
Derek, it was great fun watching you react to this song. China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider was, and remains, a fan favorite! The fella in the lavender/purple shirt is Bobby Weir, a founding member of the band. He’s still out there performing and I would encourage you to go out and see a show! He still brings it!!
omg... that "china" opening is among my favorite bits of music anywhere. sublime.
That moment at 5:10 in this video when Garcia breaks into a big smile is when the crowd roared, and he glanced up to his left to realize that his face had just appeared on the Jumbotrons for the first time. I had a photo pass for this show, and spent much of it in the well between the first row and the stage. I saw 150+ shows, and this is certainly among the top rank. What insane luck that I got to be a part of this adventure. Beyond my family, there's nothing I'm more grateful for in my life.
They have step pads in front of the mics which turn the mics on and off
The transition happened about two minutes before the lyrics for I Know You Rider began.
you should check out another version of these two, 6/26/74! there’s a jam into it and then they jam on china cat for 5ish minutes before they get to the lyrics. one of the best versions they ever did.
This is a great version. Very spacey, but in a good way.
That was FIRE!🔥. Thanks
To answer your question about why Bobby and Jerry are stepping to the microphone together when singing, but back a step or so away from the microphone while jamming, is that each of them have a pad under the rug on the stage that is a switch - step forward right in front of it and the microphone turns on - step away from the microphone and it turns off. It lessens the chance of feedback and prevents the noise of the crowd from coming into the live mix.
I would often play the 'where did the song start ' game. After I got better at it I would try to see where the cue was that let them be so seamless.
At this point in their career The Dead had sensors in front of their mics that activated when they stepped on them, and it shut off the mic when they stepped away. Good call.
So that minimal extraneous noise would be picked up by the mics and come into the mix.
Good eye dude.
Yeah Kollis, I saw The Dead a bunch during this time, so I knew about the sensor pads long before this video even came out. But it is fun to clue in those who are unaware. Makes me feel smart. LOL. Even though I am not.
They got the idea for those from the old mats that you stepped on at grocery stores to open the doors.
There’s nothing better than a happy Jerry! I love how you naturally react to the power and joy and musicality of that.
ONE NOTE is all it ever took - I remember when this was 1st Set material -- that 1st note would light up the whole room -- it is tape on the drum heads - very common - yeah the transition WAS that smooth at this point in the history of the band - listen to a few from '69 and they were clunky - yes / they had sound gates under a mat in front of their mics - it kept the mics shut off when they were not singing - remember IT WAS ALWAYS about the SOUND..... here is a link to a video of the first time they performed a cover of the Bruce Hornsby song "Valley Road" in 1990 - I was one person back on the rail in front of Jerry and it was quite a breath of fresh air - 1st "breakout" since Brent had passed away - we had a lot of fun that night - enjoy ua-cam.com/video/Tu0Ho0SkyBU/v-deo.htmlsi=kwj3WJCTvzuwkJbw&t=3448
Never thought about why they step away from the mics, but it's not a technical thing for sure. Probably keepin with the flow of the song. When you see Jerry push up his glasses and smile, you know you're in for some good stuff. I wish I was a headlight on a northbound train!
It is indeed a technical thing. Sensors on the floor in front of the microphones to trigger them on and off. This was inspired by the pads in front of the doors of grocery stores that opened the doors as you approached in the '70s/'80s. Now those are infrared sensors above the doors. As a matter of fact, the earliest versions were literally those exact style of pads to trigger the mics. You can read about origins of this tech in David Gans' book Conversations With The Dead.
@@KCHanson100 Thanks. I've been educated.
It depends on how much you’ve listened to the dead but I know within a few notes, I remember watching splintered sunlight a dead tribute band in Philly and the whole set I called the song within a few seconds and after the 5th in a row someone next to me was like, we get it you’re a head haha.
sometimes before they actually started. a pre-tease will cue old-timers. and in answer to the 'frequency' question, China Cat was played at least 550 times, but was no more 'expected' than any other song on any given night. If that makes sense. Keep in mind that the song was played over almost 30 years, so it has its own unique history.a hot 1970 and a hot 1990 version can be pretty different.
if you like China Rider def check out the version on the Europe '72 double album its even better really check out that whole double album its IMO the band at their absolute peak
I also love the 73/74 versions with the feelin groovy jam (5/19/74 is my favorite) but there aren’t a lot of videos I’ve found (other than the Winterland one from The Grateful Dead Movie)
Audience video with soundboard recording of Help on the Way>Slipknot!>Franklin's Tower from 10-8-89 in Hampton, VA. I was at this show.
ua-cam.com/video/ZzlNWPVBcfk/v-deo.htmlsi=YiP852LiBVZODqBR
Yass. The Warlocks!!
It’s often said that you are either a China/Rider or a Scarlet/Fire. The most famous version is from Cornell 5/8/77. There will be much debate regarding the perfect one to listen to, but Phil’s bass intro at Cornell is worth the price of admission. Enjoy!!
And BTW, it is technically legal to be a China/Rider AND a Scarlet/Fire.
Agreed. My favorite anything is scarlet into fire Cornell 77. It's not a video Derek, but that while show will lift you high.
Too funny. For the record, I got hooked on the Dead after hearing the classic Europe '72 China/Rider with headphones while stoned. Pulled me right down the rabbit-hole. Please play it at my funeral. Somewhere in the mid-eighties I fell in love with Scarlet-Fire. So many great versions! Cornell is sublime, but 2-5-78 from Cedar Falls is still my favorite.
Check out Help on the Way>Slipknot>Franklin's Tower, Uncle John's Band, Eyes of the World, Terrapin Station, Goin Down the Road Feeling Bad, Shakedown Street, Scarlet Begonias >Fire on the Mountain, Playing in the Band, the Music Never Stopped and Estimated Prophet. All live versions of course. That should get you started. Have fun!
Fire>Scarlet??? Don't think you'll find that one.
@@JB-Deadskins I proof read that a few times. Gonna have to edit that. Thanks for reachin out.
yup one note to know it's China Cat... and if I'm really distracted for some reason and that first G note doesn't register, the next note (also G - up an octave) makes it unmistakable - esp. when they are played staccato like Jerry plays them...
Another suggestion for you - their first live release was called “Live/Dead” - a 2-LP (later one full CD worth) set recorded in 1969. It’s lightly edited but is meant to sound like a typical set from them at the time, which it does. Stone-cold classic record, including the legendary jam vehicles “Dark Star” and “The Eleven” plus “St. Stephen” if you remember that from Aoxomoxoa.
Minus 5 notes. If that makes sense. I remember 8/12/91 in Sacramento and I called China Cat probably a full 30 seconds or 1 minute before they actually went into. Not bragging, this does not make me special, many Deadheads had this same power to take the cues while they tuned up to guess what was coming. But I guess the main point would be, we all knew the songs (and the setlists, and the patterns) so well that it just became intuitive. But for me especially on 8/12, I got so excited when I knew what was coming, and I yelled about it a lot.
The video is fuzzy because it’s 1989, and 50,000 people just lit a joint, as soon as Jerry hit that first G on the sixth string, and we all knew it was China-Rider. 🤪
What you are seeing on the drum is to muffle the sound, it deadens the high end.
Jerry’s on fire during Rider! 🔥
That silent conversation between Jerry and Brent before Jerry rips the Rider solo…. I contend they were sharing a joke about Bobby’s short shorts.
They first ran China>Rider in September of 1969. Over the next 26 years they played this combo over 500 times over the course of over 2,300 shows. So, a one in five chance? And again, Jerry isn't even looking while he soars.
Aw, glad to see experience your first China/Rider. 😻
I can name that tune in one note. :)
Lol. Me too!
@@mikelind8607 It’s a gift. Calling out next song at a show just by hearing them tuning was another gift. Lol!
@fetzerf I am sure I am one of thousands who would try and predict a set list based on what was played at previous shows. My favorite was when I guessed a superfecta correctly at shoreline sometime in the 90's. I predicted china rider looks like rain into Cumberland blues to start the second set. First three no great accomplishment but it was cool when I was correct on the Cumberland.
@@mikelind8607 Now that's impressive! Closes I got was Easter Sunday Philly Spectrum in '85. Shakedown, Sampson 2nd set openers. Predicted the Morning Dew as well. :) Cheers
Usually can tell a Dead song in the first or second note.
There's always the case when the Dead (or Phish) would "tease" one song before going into another.
If you went to a 3-4 night stand you were likely to get a China>rider. Not a guarantee you’d get it on any given show though
Well done! There is a cut heading into Rider on this recording. If you want to hear the full transition, check out Chris Hazzard’s remastered version (also not fuzzy). I believe the cut only removed a few seconds.
that's Bobby!
Not necessary other than they are listening to the other players and know that they don't need to sing at the moment. And that's Bob Weir in the lavender shirt.
Anyone else think Jerry and Brent were laughing about Bobby’s shorts toward the end of Rider?
I would love to think that haha, but it could have just been their musical bromance ?
@@ehaber197 yes but I think it’s more fun this way.
Check out "Black Throated Wind"
1 note.. especially this song.
ditch earbuds for noise canceling, giant, puffy headphones for this. 🙂
4 notes
It’s easy to guess the song with one note when you know when the song is played in the set
To @fetzerf point, there's nothing mechanical about the step away. Really i'd guess it's more about band communication. Non-verbal cues to stay in sync and signal which section of the song is approaching etc
and yes it just takes one guitar pluck
Dude,no one pronounces aoxomoxoa! We just mumble and smile. Just like Jerry would do when he forgot which verse he was supposed to be singing.
immediate
Soooooooo many better versions. This one sounds like it's minutes after Jerry pushed the plunger.
2 notes
But yes, China almost always transitions into Rider and you can never really tell where one stops and the other begins. Pure magic.
If you went to a 3-show run, you’d likely hear it one of those nights.
The cat sneaks up on you and before you know it this cat is snuggling on your lap.
I believe there is a pressure sensitive mat that activates the microphone but that's speculation on my part.
You are right. Do you remember when grocery store doors opened when you stepped on a mat ? That's where they got the idea.
@@billbeliakoff5589 Thanks I thought I read that someplace! They had a couple of very tech savvy sound engineers that come up with a some pretty innovative stuff for the time, the Wall of Sound is one BIG example.
alpine 1989 hard to beat this brent era shows
Smooth??? They could steal your face right off your head.