Are Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy Connected? | Templin Institute Dispatch
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- The realities of Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy are very different, but contain enough similarities to warrant the question "are they connected? and if so, how?". Today, we investigate that very question.
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If you only knew the True Power of Licensing and Trademark !!!
Could you give examples of 40k technology appearing in Fantasy? I've never heard of that and it sounds really interesting.
NO! move on
@@BenersantheBread You have to go back to the late 80's to early 90's to find them.
When GW put out it's styrofoam Warhammer Fantasy Battle Fortress in the late 80's they actually had rule suggestions for running Fantasy vs 40k battles with it. Needless to say it was akin to one to five Space Marines vs an army of Fantasy battle in the fort.
As Zoran the Bear would say,
"Yes... and No.... and *everything* in-between."
Drink the wolfin Chaos!!
Yes! My suggested name was chosen. "Noticed by Senpai" achievement gotten.
But your are running from the Battlefield!
_Shameful Display_
@@comradekenobi6908 hahahahahaha yes, shameful display
I guess that makes sense, it's the only thing that Necrons, The Imperium, Tau, Eldar, Nids, Orks, and Chaos combined can't defeat: the dreaded ™
Aaaahhh....The All-Powerful Gods of Money named Dollar and his kin (Euro, Yen, Pound, and etc.)
The GW publication "White Dwarf" explained that while Fantasy and 40K are separate universes, they are linked by The Warp, as are countless other realities.
Wonder what other realities there could be. I imagine there could be a version of Warhammer that's set on present day Earth with superheroes.
This could always be the 'Throne of Glass' Situation, where despite not interacting things from one Universe occasionally appear in the other as a result of a damaged 'magical' artefact. However the differences between universe cause the nature of said artefact to change to accommodate the new universe .
My answer: They are separate universes, but though the 4 big Chaos Gods, they are somewhat connected. That and overall both universes are owned by Games Workshop.
The Four chaos gods are derived from the will of sentient species. i.e Khorne is spawned from war, bloodlust, honor etc. So I don’t think they’re connected but they’re two different entities spawned in two universes with similar magic rules.
Like in fantasy it’s cannon that the world goes through cycles where civilization reigns until chaos inevitably ends the world. So fantasy Nurgle died when all of his followers and all life was destroyed with the world that was but he was born again when sentient beings started to feel despair or suffer from disease in AOS
This has been adressed in the lore from old rogue trader to even recent events through the story of the old ones. One of them escaped the necrons in 40k by opening a portal to a pocket dimension. When they did this, orc spores latched on to their spaceships (fantasy and aos lore both describe the vessels of the old ones as spaceships) and chaos seeped through with them. The warp of 40k birthed the warp of warhammer fantasy, which then took a life of its own. They arent naturally connected, but can be briefly through shenanigans for fun easter eggs like skaven prank calling eldrad or kaldor draigo chilling with some dwarves
Only problem with that is the elves in AoS have Slaanesh prisoner and being forced to free all the elfven souls she devoured.
@@2guys1cliplol once again, the warp of 40k birthed the warp of wfb that then took a life of its own. This is why the warhammer fantasy daemons arent a fraction of the strength that their 40k counterparts have, and why wfb and aos dont have to deal with shit like enslaver plagues. And the chaining up slaanesh shit is allegory, just like how the gods in both aos and 40k dont have physical forms slaanesh aint physically chained up somewhere, the "chains" are metaphysical spells and shit keeping slaanesh from fucking with shit while they steal all the elf souls back
Well I know that in TTS Emperor they are; their characters from the tabletop role play of it “came to life” after their game ended, and I know the Celestial Shaman Queen (The Emperor’s character) showed up in their Stellaris Special.
Fan theory time! The Pillairstodes that was straight up yeeted from existence awoke in Warhammer Fantasy. Perhaps Sigmar wasn't an unknown Primarch, but a VERY known one that the Emperor also yeeted from existence after hitting him with his Sailor Moon soul purification blast.
TTS Emperor is glorious "satirelore" :D
@@phantomwraith1984 Indeed, all claims to the contrary are heresy.
@@h4xorzist PRAISE BE TO THE MAN-EMPEROR OF MANKIND!
@@jamesbaxter5147
BANANA!
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.
Wait, wrong franchise.
Rip Robert Jordan
Trying to get my 13 year old to start that series
Or is it. . .
It has been almost explicitly stated that the fantasy and 40,000 universes are in separate universes but are linked together by the warp along with a few others; however games workshop almost never gives a clear answer to things such as these so your head-cannon for the nuances of how this works is as good as mine.
Underrated comment
incorrect, it has been stated that they are different.
On the day I just started Reading 'Hero of the Imperium' What a fun day
Ci-Ci-Ciaphas Cain! Heeero of the impeeeeriuuuum!!!!
Ci-Ci-Ciaphas Cain! Heeero of the impeeeeriuuuum!!!!
Ci-Ci-Ciaphas Cain! Heeero of the impeeeeriuuuum!!!!
What a great book. Have fun with it.
When one considers how the Warp works, I’d say yes
I agree, I like the idea that warhammer 40k and warhammer fantasy are different realities connected to the warp.
@Lorenzo Panza Back in the late 80s, when 40k was still Rogue Trader. This is blatantly misleading to say "GW stated so" when they also have stated its NOT the case for the past 20+ years. AoS doesn't count considering this is a discussion about Warhammer Fantasy, not AoS.
My head cannon is that the planet of Fantasy is in the center of the eye of terror, surviving because chaos is young and that the gods of this world was in the same power level.
Due its geography it should have only elfs if it could exists, also Eye of Terror is warp itself as such nothing could survive it.
My head cannon is that the Chaos bros get tired of playing with 40k reality and switch tables to the fantasy reality.
@@WellBattle6 slannesh really do be a bard tho
"Greetings, welcome to hell!"
-Wamuudes to Sir Wamri le Savoreux
GW confirmed in a 2016 and 2018 WDs issues that all their settings (WHFB, AoS, and 40K) are part of a multiverse all linked by the Realm of Chaos/Warp. The Chaos Gods and their daemons are one and the same in all settings. In fact, the 2016 issue said that Slaanesh was born in 40K and made his way to WHFB because he found the Elves to be delicious.
But the Horned Rat changed the balance between the great four in Fantasy did it not?
@@phreakazoith2237 Not really. The Chaos Gods don't take him seriously.
@@phreakazoith2237He is a minor chaos god, just like hashut. They dont really change the balance though
I thought that theory was actually cannon with warhammers being separated universes
It is, they outright say it in an edition of white dwarf
But it use to be years ago like 3rd edition I think. Because there where bolters and power swords from 40k in fantasy at one point.
@@parkermaisterra8532 yes, connected through the warp with the chaos gods existing in both
@@parkermaisterra8532 Back in 3rd edition, when ROGUE TRADER was what 40k was, with fucking eldar-human hybrid space marine psykers and there was an inquisitor called Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau. But it hasn't been the case for the past 20+ years.
Games Workshop has gone back and forth a lot, and seem to be in the transition of going back to "yes" again.
You know i've read a theory wich said that all of the 40K universe is encapsulated on a small wizard orb of warhammer fantasy.
Karl Franz: This does have my consent
You're right. A magazine White Dwarf, owned by Games Workshop revealed in a Q & A article in June of 2018 that the Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K are connected via the Realm of Chaos/The Warp.
Best link between worlds are the Chaos Gods' names and personality remaining consistent.
With minor differences..
Also Isha, also the ZOATS!
The thing is that crossovers occurred during the End Times: when Araloth and company meet what may have been a Grey Knight from Warhammer 40K while traveling through Nurgle’s Garden. This is just one relatively mention, but the crossover mentions have been there for quite some time.
There is only one conection:
*THE GORGER-LORD*
I always figured it was something similar to your idea. Two universes in a shared multiverse, linked by the same Chaos / Warp / Imaterium.
I have always considered both IP’s to exist somewhere along the infinite and winding network of realities and timelines that chaos/reality consist of. I think the value of having two (now three) variants of reality, all of which suffer from the same predations of chaos, mass-belief-turned-real, human weakness, and alien competition is to make a meta-level of grimdarkness. It doesn’t matter WHEN or even HOW these universes are all existing: what’s terrifying is that Chaos is the only common denominator.......
Now, are stellaris seasons 1 and 2 connected?
It will be
By the powers of the Shroud.
the warp I-I mean the shroud connects all
In time, perhaps...
Prediction:GTU will be the crisis
Here's the thing about 40k and Fantasy being linked through the Warp, its extremely possible.
The first major case for it is that in both the Warp DOES canonically connect different universes already; in WFB its always been maintained that the Polar Warp gates connected to another universe, and in 40k there are several instances of what seems to be things from alternate universes, and one concrete one. A story about Alpha Primus and a Squad of Ultramarines stumbling on an unknown artifact that let them see and to a limited extent interact with an alternate version of Alpha Primus and a squad of marines with a non-existent heraldry. Before both sides of the interaction seemed to have deemed it too dangerous and destroyed their respective mirror things.
Furthermore, the Old Ones could have well fought the Chaos Gods, because the Warp is Atemporal by its very nature. Causality only binds the Dark Gods in the sense that certain interactions with the Material Plain are necessary for their existence, and those events are still bound by the rules of Time. But outside of that, they essentially don't interact with time. To quote an old example, at the time of the Fall of the Eldar, Slaanesh had always existed, was being, and had yet to be born all at the same time. Causality only applies to Slaanesh in that the Fall HAS to have happened for it to exist, beyond that however it has no temporal restrictions beyond the amount of power it has to throw around. To the point that Slaanesh did in fact send some daemons to make sure the Fall wasn't disrupted by an attempts to take advantage of said blatant causality induced weakness.
I’m of the opinion that the Old Ones created the Warhammer Fantasy world within the a pocket Dimension of the Warp. Similarly to how they created the Webway, only this time it was both an experiment and a panic room. They, or it, wanted to study Chaos and needed an isolated place to work. So it set about shaping the world and seeding it with new and old life. With the goal of creating a new races completely resistant to the warp and to replace themselves as the new protectors of the Material Realms. With the Birth of Slaanesh, all its plans were thrown out the window and all it could do was flee and leaving the pocket realm to its fate.
Ever since i got into total war warhammer 2 and into the lore from that. i've been very confused with how it all fit together. thanks for clearing it up! 👍
Would’ve actually have been pretty neat if there was a crossover/wormhole feature that could allow for canonical transport between games/worlds in singular sessions.
Bows and arrows agaisnt a cathedral-sized space ship
I personally like the theory that the fantasy world exists somewhere deep inside the warp, where it’s only nearly impossible for the two worlds to interact.
AoS and 40k seem to have the warp as a connection. This was kind of confirmed in the White Dwarf, so your assumption is surprisingly accurate.
I agree with your head canon. The more I learn about how the Fantasy End Times turned into Age of Sigmar the less possible it is that the Fantasy world is entirely within 40k. The idea that these parallel universes share the same Immaterium/Warp is intriguing. It would explain how Chaos gods can appear to go inactive for a time, thier focus is on the other realm.
lmao i was just writing "my headcanon is that they're seperate universes connected by the warp" and then you said it before I could finish the sentence. great vid as always :)
In 2nd Edition 40k (the best edition), a Chaos player could field Daemon World armies. In addition to the usual daemons, there were also rules for Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights, Chaos Hounds, Beastmen, Minotaurs and Trolls. Cultist armies could field packs of Beastmen, armed with primitive weapons and armour. There is even reference to a cult known as the Vampire Coven of Cassandron.
I like the idea that fantasy isn’t just a world in 40k but are in someway still connected and there is a relationship
The last thing The Everchosen of Chaos heard before being banished to the Warp was:
*"DID YOU EVER EATEN... A TANGERINE?"*
I've personally often envisioned a spacegame of sorts(most recently Star Citizen) set up so that various planets or systems could be made to contain the gameworlds of other games. :P so that participation in another game is a matter of finding the system for it with your starship. :)
A very extremely awesome video Templin Institute. And I do love the concept of Warhammer being a multiverse.
Actually this was a thing in the early lifespans of both games. In fact people in the Old World could wield Lightning Claws and Laspistols. That was until they retconned it...only for it to come back in a short event in End Times when the Skaven invented their wacky version of a telephone. A wacky version that had some crazy warp tech of their production. They used it. And the first thing they heard was something Elvish but more ancient and ghostly. They freaked out and smashed their device. Yes, they phoned the Eldar by accident.
I read that at one time it was implied by the creators that Fantasy was on a plant in 40K, but in the last decade or so they have said they are separate universe.
I always thought that they were diffrent dimetions, but shared the warp. Since the warp exists outside of our understanding of Time, space, or causality, it would not be unreasonable to think that it could link to more than one universe. Prehaps the reason the Dark gods are not as active as they could be is because they are commanding the End Times of *Hundreds* of dimentions.
Some Warhammer UA-camr: WRITE THAT DOWN!!! WRITE THAT DOWN!!!
It's fun to speculate the connection between Fantasy and 40k but officially Games Workshop said that no they are not connected.
The importance of their connectedness and how now AoS can be important to 40K, depends entirely on how much the Mortal Realms impact Chaos.
In AoS, the Elven Gods managed to harness the powers of the winds of magic and this allowed to eventually assault Slaanesh in his fortress and eventually imprison him.
If at some point in 40K it appears that the powers of Slaanesh have diminished, it could allude to AoS having acted on Chaos and so having a disproportionate effect on 40K.
This also keeps within the lore of AoS and the Mortal Realms existing in some kind of sub-pocket of the warp and even the Chaos Gods cannot interfere completely with it.
Some corrections:
1. The new elf gods didn't use the Winds of Magic since they basically didn't exist anymore. It's implied that Tzeench helped them in secret tho.
2. Slaanesh wasn't in its palace when they found it. It was hiding away due to consuming too many gods and souls at once during the End Times.
3. The Chaos Gods can actually exist in the Mortal Realms without too much issue. Khorne went there almost twice (one time to punch a civilisation, the other to fight Grungi but the later just left and Khorne got bored) and Slaanesh is stuck there by force.
@@pile-o-nonsense3688 Fair, but y point is that AoS may interact with 40K and vice versa, precisely because they are connected by the warp.
Furthermore, the Mortal Realms are magic concentrations, where mortal life can exist, that exist on a semi-permanent basis within the warp itself.
These realms are connected via magical gates, the realm gates being the most stable and largest of these, but realm connections appear and disappear on a constant basis, most to some of the known realms, but many others to realms beyond.
It is thus easy to say that at some point 40K and AoS have interacted or will interact, either by some 40K faction suddenly appearing in the mortal realms or the other way with some AoS group appearing in 40K.
From there you can tell many stories if you so desired to connect these realms either on one off or in some longer stories.
But its doubtful if GW will ever even consider this possibility, despite being so obvious.
It certainly would be interesting to see how AoS deals with the insane firepower of 40K or 40K deals with the extreme levels of psykers (read magic) in AoS.
My own opinion is that were the Fantasy and 40K universe to exist in the same universe, they would have to be nigh impossible to discover under any circumstance. No Imperium Expeditions to find this planet would be undertaken cause to be honest, it would appear to the Imperium that this was just a turbulent Imperial Feudal World that also will go under the classification of War world due to the other races merely existing. So I believe that rather than exist in the same universe, they exist in different planes of the universe, alternate dimensions if you will, where one or the other by chance finds rips in the fabric of the warp and items fall through them at random.
But what if Warhammer Fantasy was in another galaxy entirely, in the same universe as W40K? Distant galaxies, even, but the same universe.
1 theory I like to entertain is that the fantasy world was a place specifically used by the Old Ones as a "testing ground" for new species that they would later seed across the galaxy for various purposes. Perhaps hidden in some pocket dimension to keep it away from first, the Necrons and later Chaos. Then after their fall a few might have used it as a refuge but then Slaanesh happened and it busted their webway gates.
I have a series idea for the templin institute, now that you have Analyzed many of the multiverse different factions, you should do analysis of what would happen if they fought, I think that would work wonders with your format.
I always assumed they were, vaguely at least, anyway specially with the idea of warp gates, the world of Warhammer supposedly collapsed when the Old Ones warp gate collapsed over the northern hemisphere causing the realm of chaos. Warp gates are mentioned in 40K too as being remnant of a lost civilisation, thus providing a link. I kind of thought that the Warhammer world was before the time of the Imperium though, but I thought that it would be fun to imagine a bunch Imperial ships landing one day and demanding men for the Imperial Guard and the whole old world being taken aback that they had been part of this giant space empire for millennia and had simply forgot
Common knowledge in the warhammer community that the warp connects numerous dimensions.
Is that knowledge or non-canon opinion?
I assume the Warp is a very convenient plot device to create literally out of this world shenanigans that GW team and their writers to play with
4:16 This... actually has like the thinnest of confirmations. The Chaos Gods as we know them exists in all realities, it's just that their outward faces and the Great Games they play meld and shift along with the eddies the warp connect to. Blood Bowl is perhaps the most hilarious example of this, as the Chaos Gods in contact with the Bloodbowlverse seem to forget their bloodthirsty desires and just want to settle their godly disputes over games of pigskin. Of course, with the Mortal Realms and it's capturing of Slaanesh, there is many a question to be raised if this idea of the warp being a great sea with many shores is an interpretation still valid or not.
In my Mind the two Universes are connected through the Realm of Chaos in some sort, but its not with any timeline or something. Trying to understand Chaos is Madness.
In Warhammer Age of Sigmar they confirmed that other Universes than the WH40k and WH Fantasy Settings exist and are linked to the Realm of Chaos. The Slaaneshi Daemon Prince 'Syll'Esske' comes from such a Place, which was explained in the White Dwarf Article about Syll'Esske. They dont go in Detail for that Universe, but it confirms Chaos has his Influence in other Worlds as well (and already destroyed some).
The Idea that sigmar is one of the lost primarchs is pretty interesting, but the real fun one is that sigmar is just one of the loyalist primarchs that's traped in the warp, him being the lion, rus (or god forbid, jagatai) is way less plausible, and thus, way better
As someone who loves Warhammer, both 40k and Fantasy, I think it'd be really cool if they were linked in some way, even if in a way in which they could never actually interact again. It would create an additional layer of detail to both universes, one you might only ever find fragments of information from, and just add to the overall mythos and mystery to Warhammer Fantasy, like how did the 2 universes come to separate from each other, why can they no longer interact, what actually happened in 40k in the origins of Fantasy, what part did Chaos and the warp have to play, and so on.
from someone who has just recently gotten into warhammer i was shocked to learn that 40k is not just warhammer 40k years later
I always hoped for crossover - detachment of Black Templars and possibly Grey Knight, Inquisitor and Techpriest thrown through warp to strange kind of Terrra :D
I wonder if like, one Black Templar Kill Team could take on the whole of WHF. I'd say probably not, but I would bet they would do some serious damage before getting taken out.
I think 40k and Fantasy are connected in a Moorcockian (fitting since GW was heavily inspired by Moorcock's works) sort of way, with the same roles (Old Ones who created much of the setting, a human empire founded by a warrior-king, now worshipped as a god, beset by internal and external enemies, a declining race of elves that split apart after a catastrophe of their own making, a race of warlike greenskins, etc) being filled by different players (with the exception of the Chaos Gods, who with some minor details are 1:1).
TLDR: They share the same multiverse, though not the same universe.
I remember a short story I read years ago that I thought was a Warhammer fantasy set that involved villagers trying their best to protect their homes from a beastman horde. They failed horribly and before the main characted was going to die at the hands of some beastmen, Space Marines in Terminator armor teleport in, mop up the horde, and then teleport back out.
They absolutly used to be connected, but the connections have partly been retconned. But, there are some things, like Kaldor Draigo meeting a character from Fantasy. They are somewhat connected.
I recall hearing that 40k exists in a jar in the university of magic in Altdorf.
I infer that due to the warp, some stuff can get out and interact with other things on fantasy/ Aos.
From what I've gathered online, the gamelines of both 7th Sea and L5R were supposed to take place in the same world, but Alderac changed their minds and so Rokugan and Theah had to exist in separate universes.
In my own headcannon, similar to what Marc says at the end, this Chaos is the same as the one Michael Moorcock created. The Gods of Chaos are just another name for the myriad of Lords of Chaos that exist. Playing their Great Game, also mentioned in Warhammer, against the Lords of Law/Order. Because in fact that's the basis of Michael Moorcock's multiverse. A multitude of universes and planets, which control Chaos and Law dispute through their champions and pawns, with an Eternal Champion of Balance in the middel of all.
Is known Games Workshop took elements from a myriad of fantasy stories to create their original Warhammer Fantasy world, with many of them moving to 40K in the process. But only Chaos has remained practically unaltered or personalized from the original iteration of the original author that envisioned it.
Well, GW kinda tried to alter it with original ideas such as Malal, representing the self-destructive nature of Chaos, and the Gods of Law ironically being Chaos Gods as well with their very own Greater Daemons called the Viydagg and such.
Are Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy Connected?
The Templin Institute: well yes, but actually no.
Well, I know for sure that personally, being more a fan of W40K than fantasy Warhammer, I would feel much more incentivized to explore fantasy Warhammer lore in farther depth if I knew for sure that the two universes were connected somehow. Even if it was just a minor connection that didn't allow for either universe to change the other in any significant way. The way I like to think they are connected is the gods in W40K and their fantasy Warhammer counterparts were actually one in the same, just with different names where applicable. So for example, the Chaos gods are one in the same, and Sigmar is actually the God Emperor of Mankind, etc.. The way I would explain them being linked is that perhaps the fantasy Warhammer planet is actually in an entirely different galaxy than the W40K galaxy but within the same universe, or one is distant past and the other is distant future, or both. Or, maybe they are two different parallel universes, or timelines, but the powers that be in each are the same entities, and able to influence each universe/timeline, however, limited to the parameters of each reality. But because they are actually the same godlike entities, they draw power from each reality, the worshipers of a particular entity from either reality strengthen that same entity when they perform their respective forms of worship. For example, bloodshed in the fantasy Warhammer universe and the W40K universe both fuel the same god (Khorne's) power, and reverence for humanity in either reality fuels Sigmar's/The God Emperor's power.
The theory that I enjoy most is that wh fantasy was a planet the old ones used for testing species (which is why orks exist but a much weaker than 40k) deep in the webway. Then after they died chaos started to leak through the poles. And when the end times happened the planet broke into the psychic bits and peices it was made from. This is a headcannon though and assumes that the old ones experimented with human or at least humanoids.
So the Warp was actually created by a sort of big bang that happened when the Warhammer Fantasy planet exploded and created the Warp as a result? Or, did I accidentally misinterpret the theory and accidentally make a new one? lol
@@NODnuke45 when fantasy boomed it became the mortal realms in aos. The warp was already a thing. This is just headcanon though. All of it
Petition for you guys to do the flood from halo, I will never stop trying to get this done
The fact that you can use some demons in both means that at the very least they are connected through the warp. Whether there are other spatial or temporal connections is the real question. It would be awesome to do some homebrew scenarios where they can exposed to each other in one way or another.
So one of the main theories that suggested the mortal realms and the 40K universe were linked via the warp was the appearance of the silver armoured warrior appearing in the garden of Nurgle during the end times and helping out Araloth, a Wood Elf noble. A lot of people believed this person to be Kaldor Draigo of the Grey knights, which isn't that great of a logical leap if you forget one thing. Grey knight armour isn't silver, the lore states that grey knight amour is unpainted ceramite, which is typically accepted to be either grey or a dull white. In the lore that was added during the early days of the Age of Sigmar, specifically in the realm gate wars books, there is a Stormcast character named Gardus. Gardus Steelsoul leads the Hallowed Knights, a stormhost who wears silver armour. What readers were actually seeing during that encounter between Araloth and a mysterious silver armored warrior wasn't a meeting of a space marine and a fantasy elf, but really the very first appearance of a stormcast eternal. Time not flowing in one direction in the warp/chaos realms is well established in both universes, so there's nothing preventing a character from the Age of Sigmar's mortal realms encountering a character from Warhammer Fantasy via the chaos realms.
In the early days of both IP there was a Warhammer Fantasy rule book title "Slaves to Darkness" which had a prophecy written down by a wizard from the Empire that mentioned things like the Great and Terrible Eye in the Sky aka the Eye of Terror. It also mentioned events that were still to happen and has happened that involved the demigod sons of a God-King who ripped an empire to be and was had been in two aka the Horus Heresy.
Of course the Empire Wizard was soon executed for heresy, but it was a nice little entry in the rule book's lore section that may have given a glimpse to the two universes being linked via the Eye of Terror and the Immaterium.
In Liber Chaotica a series of old background books about the forces of chaos the point of view character is a imperial scholar from the old world of Warhammer fantasy. As he projects his mind into the realm of chaos and explore the realms of the dark gods he's assailed by visions of another time and place where he witness the forces of the Chaos Space Marine's battle the armies of the empire of man.
In a more recent example the map of the realm of chaos in the Warhammer fantasy Chaos Deamons army book featured the eye of terror as a landmark. Although the authors of the army book went on record saying that the inclusion of the eye was more of a Easter egg than something to be considered as lore set in stone.
This video is pretty badass. I don't mind a little overlap of 40k and warhammer, and the theory that Sigmar could be a primarch is awesome too. Good lore!
Not a massive Warhammer fan to be honest, but from an outsiders view I kind of assumed it was a case of the fantasy side was 'history' and the 40k side was the 'future' and any cross over was item or people falling through time, for lack of a better term.
Uh no, 40k is actually playing in our future, while fantasys world has similarities to earth but is a clearly different planet, however in the old lore it was hinted that the fantasy world actually was a world in the 40k universe, caught in a relative safe bubble in the eye of terror.
my headcanon is that Fantasy is an experiment in a pocket dimension of the warp that went awry.
Now I am definitely interested in more videos like this
Well here we go again crossing the mines field of warhammer cannon or not cannon
I had seen one theory that was based on a piece if artwork from the old chaos daemons army book for Warhammer Fantasy. There is an art piece that shows the many areas in the realm of chaos that sits just beyond the warpgate in the north of the Old World that shows right up in the corner the familiar warp storm from 40k, the Eye of Terror and the theory goes that the warp forms dimensional barrier between the universes and that it's entirely possible for someone to cross between them if they're willing to march/run/fly/casually stroll across the realm of chaos. Its kind of neat but i can see why GW has never gone yes or no with it
To my knowledge, the "separate universes but linked by the Warp" is the closest to actual canon, with at least one article from White Dwarf Magazine (which is published by Games Workshop) written from an in-universe perspective of a character from Warhammer Fantasy outright saying that it is. Also in the article it's said that the Chaos gods in both settings are the same gods, playing their twisted machinations in both universes.
The "Sigmar is one of the lost primarchs" theory was really popular in the fandom, but to my knowledge it's not possible in the canon. The two 'lost' primarchs aren't lost in the sense that they were never found; the Emperor did in fact find them, and they joined him in the great crusade, we know that much to be true. They were 'lost' when some terrible transgression or failure happened that is purposefully left vague, making the Emperor basically erase them from history. It's also greatly implied through various sources that they were killed, possibly by the Emperor's own order and carried out by Leman Russ. I suppose _maybe_ Sigmar landing on the old world could've happened _after_ those events, but it seems highly unlikely to me. EDIT: Actually after looking up more info on Sigmar, no it couldn't have been after, but we also know what his _birth_ on the old world was like, and that it didn't involve a generator pod. So I'm more certain now that he couldn't be either of the lost primarchs.
Is it possible that Sigmar was one of these primarchs that was executed for transgressions and failures? Hence his complete disappearance. Just because he did well on the planet he landed on doesn't mean he served the Emperor well when he was finally granted a Legion to command. Just a speculation and counter for thought provoking purposes.
@@jonesdan85 I looked up a bit more about Sigmar since I'm more familiar with 40K than Fantasy, and now I'm even more certain that he couldn't be the lost primarch. There's a record of what his birth was like, and his literal birth mother and father; neither of those could be the case if he instead emerged from a generator pod like all the other primarchs. Some of them had surrogate parents, but not literal parents like Sigmar.
I was just wondering this a few days ago.
I love to anger my friends by insisting that Sigmar is one of the Lost Primarchs.
so i played 40k back in the crossover times at the start of third edition so i remember back when they were linked, one of the things i found most interesting was that the fantasy setting was actually meant to be the future of 40K.
if the fantasy setting was the future and all the races (well most of them) somehow ended up clumped onto one planet it would mean that the skaven are most likely the native population of that world as all the others link back to 40k races that ended up there while the ratmen are the only race that dosnt have a representative in 40K, the lizard men are the pregenater race that made the eldar and orcs, them two are the elfs and orcs, the humans (in all there meny forms) are imperial guard, Vampires are humans, Chaos is chaos that only really leaves the skaven.
40k is in a version of the Warhammer fantasy universe where the end times don't happen and a slightly altered version of what we know as irl history happens between the two settings timelines.
Personally, I tend to think of Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy as separate universes connected to the Warp/Realm of Chaos. And there might be others connected to the Realm of Chaos. I know that Event Horizon was one of these worlds.
imagine the continuation of Gotrek and Felix that got sucked into a wormhole into the 40k universe, tell us their adventures there then comeback to the fantasy world.
Multiverse avengers stuff there
My favourite theory is that the warhammer world was a weapons (species) development realm, like how the webway is a fast travel realm. In the warp... but not. Also craved by chaos and anyone with an eye for the Old Ones' secrets. In that way fantasy isn't just one reality among many, but a cornerstone of the war in heaven. If we're continuing with AoS then the splitting of the mortal realms was a fail-safe; to deny chaos or their like an easy victory. Sigmar being a lost primarch may no longer be canon but it damn well deserves to be.
I think the explanation that they used ot be linked makes total sense. If you look at the old designs for Sigmar's Real, its pretty much just a big space station. Obviously they've changed that over the years...
It seems in the early days, it was. I've read stories of people playing in tournaments that had them equipping chain swords and power fists from 40k and 40k battles had armies getting magical weapons and armor. Sigmar seemed like he was going to be the Emperor as well, a powerful godlike being disappearing. And when The Emperor is talked about, he was just a silent figure that waited for the right opportunity to appear. Not to mention in the Horus Heresy books, they talk about The Emperor's exploits on old Terra and it sounds like how Sigmar once fought in the past. And I believe some of the writers and game designers before newer GW staff came in did talk about how they wanted the two connected. Also, in the first edition Warhammer Fantasy RolePlay book, The Old World looked just like Earth's. So I believe at one point they where going to connect the two, but decided against it.
I've never heard the theory that Sigmar is one of the Lost Primarch's and now I'm super fascinated
That theory has been around since early 90s and its a good one. That's what I subscribe to.
@@jonesdan85 I've been looking into it and I can totally see it being canon
@@wiibrockster there’s apparently mention of the lost 2 primarchs in the Horus Heresy novels (though only slightly) so it’s sadly unlikely
> when the flow of the warp is just right
Tzeentch: *Are you sure about that?*
i would've thought that warhammer fantasy took place in the ancient past of the 40k universe, the thing that the skaven found could've been either of Necron or Eldar origin, and the being having plate armor that none of the races at the time could've made, could've been a being from the 40k time, somehow being displaced in time
This channel better be called "The Warhammer Institute" now.
It wasn't licensing issue, it was Games Workshops being Games Workshop and being greedy and anti consumer. I'm an old Warhammer fantasy player who remembers when they first came out with the 40k miniatures, they were lazy and didn't give Chaos a full army and instead told Chaos players to use mini's from Warhammer fantasy. It was all explicitly the Warhammer Fantasy universe but in the future, with Space Dwarves and all. Then as they started making more kits and realized that the 40k universe was popular, someone realized that they could make more money by making the Chaos from 40k look more distinct from the Chaos of Fantasy so that you can't really use them anymore.
tl;dr the reason GW split it up is to make more money.
I like and fight for the Idea, that the World of Warhammer Fantasy is a forgotten imperial World. It ads so much more Darkness to the whole Universe and to the World of Warhammer Fantasy. Imagine picking up distant Signals in this Medieval World from Beeings, travelling the Stars for thousand of years, that there is a human Empire out there, using weapons even the Dwarfs fear. So much Potential there. And i remember in the first Codexes of Fantasy Battles, there are Artifacts like Flamthrowers and Boltguns and stuff.
Yesss, more Warhammer/40k lore please!
For The Emperor.
It was hinted at in the Liber Chaotica. I've met loads of people who entertain the idea that Sigmar was one of the lost Primarchs; obviously not canon, but just for fun.
Think of it like as a parallel universe that's sits besides the 40k's universe. The warp then ties these two different realms together occasionally cause chaos will it.
in the simplest terms, yes.
the old ones, in both iterations are the same species.
it's mentioned in one of the lore flourishes that orcs in warhammer were never meant to exist in the warhammer world, but spores do what spores do, and they came into being on a primitive world. (though i forget which book, so can't provide citation.)
my personal belief is that the old world as we knew it, existed within a pocket of the old ones' webway, accessible through the northern and southern portals, until their collapse after the war in heaven, it was intended, and used, as a testing ground for their more sentient creations, it would seem that elves were the most successful in this regard and were made into eldar, a race meant to replace the orks as the old ones' primary defenders.
the bigger question remains this: is the emperor's real surname Unberogen.
40 theories talks about this too, aprently the canon answer is, a multiverse conected by the warp
In the Liber Chaotica Tzeentch there is a story of a man from the Empire who asks a Tzeentchi demon to show him the afterlife. He gets a tour of the realm of Chaos and is shown a vision of the the most powerful servant of Tzzentch. He then falls into despair at the cosmic joke of it, for that servant had the same name as the greatest servant of Sigmar in all history. His name was Magnus, a giant of a man with a single glowing eye.
The warp connects all things. For there is only one gate and only one realm beyond it.
The Black Pyramid of Nagash is a Necrontyr artifact, the Lizardmen's Slann are the old ones, the same four Chaos gods exist, most of the Eldar gods are the gods of the Elves and Dark Elves, Gork and Mork... bruh... the answer to the title question "are they connected" is just: "yes". The follow-up 2 questions being: "where the fuck is my space skaven army?" and then "where the fuck is my space lizardmen army?"
ya'll I want space lizardmen
My headcanon will always have the Old World as a conduit planet in the Eye of Terror, and Heldenhammer being the "Lost" 2nd Primarch. Just my headcanon, but thats really what makes Warhammer so awesome, just making it up, "forging the narrative", as it were. GW has always been supportive of fans making their own canon, its just they have their trademarks and setting already. One couldnt even say set in stone, as GW has proven time and time again that the setting is mutable, changing as the players change, as the game itself changes. Sometimes its the canon that changes for the game, other times vice versa. Either way, this sort of mentalfloss is what keeps Warhammer so interesting, and will keep it so for a very, very long time. Ave Imperator!
Old Ones, Ulthuan, Eldar, Elder. All are surprising similar name. Btw, you cannot navigate the warp stone without the guide of Chaos Gods, which means the Old Ones are a corrupted Eldar who accidentally created Slannesh