Actually according to heat geek insulating inside the thermal envelope isn’t a good idea as it heats an area that will add to the general heating inside. In my heating system which is an old boiler, my pipes inside are not insulted but the floors are very badly insulated to the outside world. The under floor area is cold and it’s something I am working on fixing but I’ve got bigger fish to fry at the moment.
Insulation on the pipe work in the loft is outside of the thermal envelope of the house.. without it he would have a warmer loft...not much use if no one lives there..
I might get the insulation around the valves to the cosy 6. Our hot water tank, water pump and filter are all within a cupboard, whereas yours is in the loft. heat losses inside of the insulated (inhabited) envelope of the house seem less important than the heat loss to the environment outside of the home. I might try get my hands on a FLIR to check the run from the heat pump to the cylinder, but it looks well lagged from visual inspection.
Insulating a pump may well cause the pump to overheat and fail prematurely or even be a fire risk. Look up the pump manufacturer installation instructions on cooling. It may well say 'operate in free air'. Insulation will effectively massively increase its thermal resistance to ambient, and as it is a source of power loss, the insulation will prevent that heat dissipating. I'd remove the insulation asap. Filter insulation.. fine.
@@indymind The thermal camera is much easier to use and more likely to pick up missed areas. It's great for seeing areas where loft insulation is maybe not working to its best. The phone attachments are not that expensive nowadays.
Heat geek does a very good video about heat loss that may be worth a watch 👀 but in short, the loft is usually a warm place anyway, by insulating the pipe you stop the heat leaving the pipe, you also prevent the heat from entering the pipe, works both ways.
I was inspired by your video to investigate Octopus Heatpumps. There were some quite tempting price points spoken about online... some as low as £150 for an install (which is ridiculously cheap). Their own website says 'from £300' Anyway, filled in the VERY basic online inquiry form on Octopus' website - it really doesnt ask for much info - and the instant quote price came back as £6,000 which im sure is reasonable but my install would be VERY straightforward - nowhere near as involved as yours was. Im perplexed at all these people getting even under £2,000 and who in fact gets these '£300' installs as per the website. I did ask Octopus that question but they havent responded.
@@NicolasRaimo I agree with Nigel. My EPC is B, I only need one radiator upgraded, I'm retaining my own tank (it 's a Mixergy tank which needs a heat exchanger fitted), there are no long pipe runs and I cam in a £2,800 even after the recent 20% discount. I am getting a Cosy 10 as opposed to a 6 though.
My initial quote was 750. After the survey they knocked that down to 250, as I didn’t need any pipes or radiators changing and I only needed a Daikin 4kw for my 4 bed detached house. Probably as easy as it gets.
Hey Nick, I had mine installed and I'm not impressed with the install quality nor the performance. My heat pump seems to be needing ~30kwh day, I suspect because my living rooms is struggling to reach the desired 21C temperature and the HP is constantly working hard. And it's not even that cold these last few days. Are you having sort of similar figures? I use 19C in the early hours, 22C as a boost during Cosy periods (I'm in the cosy tariff), 21C the rest of the time. To me it seems like Octopus failed to assess the heat loss properly for my living room during the survey, and they are blaming my conservatory doors, windows, etc. I'm speaking to them to see if they are willing to change the large radiator in my living room to a larger one, but the attitude has been "minimum effort" unless I point out stuff.
Join the cosy octopus group on Facebook and detail all this and I’ll tag over some octopus staff, what you setting heat pump to hit when not heating… should only allow fall back of line 2-3c
Interesting, heat geek elite did our install. All the joints are sealed. The pipe work gets inside the house asap and theres no buffer tank as you very rarely need it - his words.
am the rare case that needs one :) see other videos where we tried without... Worth noting heat geek quote was £7500 after grant and octopus was £1350 after grant for me also
@@NicolasRaimo yup, and they only do "simple" installs in their design criteria. They wouldnt do ours after a survey as it was too complicated. At least they are honest enough to say that.
Guess it depends how much you paid for the insulation material. I get insulation with my hello fresh deliveries which I've already used on a few pipes. Instant savings even if small. My pump and magnaclean are in more viable areas so i wont be making them look even more unsightly though
Man, the resolution on that Flir camera is junk! Thanks for sharing your work. Foil tape by itself does not insulate. It could be argued that it does the opposite and act as a conductor. Gaffa tape is what you want for most of those joints. Will you recoup the cost of your work? Probably not. Does it offer good peace of mind? Definitely. I have done the same at my place, knowing full well that it's not financially worth it but may help to eek out a few watts.
Everyone seems to mesmerised by the COP and SCOP with heat pumps, but that is only a part of the whole effeciency of a heating system. You can have a COP of 10, but if that heat produced is being wasted on heat loss from the unit, long pipe runs, uninsulated components not in the house envelope, like the loft, plus multiple defrosts every hour, you will have to use more energy to produce the same heat produced by a gas boiler in the kitchen. Thats why just comparing COP is a nonsense, there is soo much more to take into account.
In practice, my heat pump is far cheaper to run than my gas boiler, considering the difference in energy prices for gas and electricity, that shows how massively less carbon is being emitted - the cost is taken from my energy bills, which is the real measure. Very few gas boilers attain even close to their specified efficiency in real life, whereas heat-pumps are much more closely monitored.
@MentalLentil-ev9jr How do you work out that your heat pump is cheaper though? With just the COP/SCOP, did you have a system boiler before or a Combi, did you heat your house at the same temp with boiler that you do with the heat pump, have you taken the wasted heat from defrosts into consideration, or outside pipework or have you got solar/batteries that are off setting the cost. Lot more in the mix than just COP/SCOP
Our quote was £7500 via OE, so went DIY - for a daikin 6kw monoblock, albeit for a 34 F EPC - old house (I'd like to say stately home), but the Mrs says sh1t hole/show. Currently use 1600kw / month, but with a combination of oil / electric (bivalent settings) we are at £120-£150 / month for everything (Car (500)/House (320) /ASHP(680) /Oil(100 litres) *Khw) - the insulation on your cozy system (even with a EPC of B), is just noise. Love the vlogs over the years, otherswise we would have no idea. 👍👍
Good tips, we have heating and hot water pipes in our garage and there will definitely be bits that need extra insulation
Adding insulation is never a waste of time or money.... whatever anyone says...
Actually according to heat geek insulating inside the thermal envelope isn’t a good idea as it heats an area that will add to the general heating inside.
In my heating system which is an old boiler, my pipes inside are not insulted but the floors are very badly insulated to the outside world.
The under floor area is cold and it’s something I am working on fixing but I’ve got bigger fish to fry at the moment.
Insulation on the pipe work in the loft is outside of the thermal envelope of the house.. without it he would have a warmer loft...not much use if no one lives there..
Yep my loft is a "cold space" insulation is below my chipboard keeping the heat in the home and out the loft
Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.
I might get the insulation around the valves to the cosy 6. Our hot water tank, water pump and filter are all within a cupboard, whereas yours is in the loft. heat losses inside of the insulated (inhabited) envelope of the house seem less important than the heat loss to the environment outside of the home. I might try get my hands on a FLIR to check the run from the heat pump to the cylinder, but it looks well lagged from visual inspection.
Yea I wouldn’t lag anything inside the heat envelope
Insulating a pump may well cause the pump to overheat and fail prematurely or even be a fire risk. Look up the pump manufacturer installation instructions on cooling. It may well say 'operate in free air'.
Insulation will effectively massively increase its thermal resistance to ambient, and as it is a source of power loss, the insulation will prevent that heat dissipating.
I'd remove the insulation asap.
Filter insulation.. fine.
if it was designed to operate only in free air they wouldn't make a premade insulated case that covers the entire product but I take your point.
Thanks . I will use touch to check heat loss. Interesting video very informative
You do not need a thermal camera.
You can just use a cheap digital thermometer.
@@indymind The thermal camera is much easier to use and more likely to pick up missed areas. It's great for seeing areas where loft insulation is maybe not working to its best. The phone attachments are not that expensive nowadays.
indeed one of these will work amzn.to/3QbHzb6 but as others day FLIR cams better for picking out cold spots easily missed with infrared pointers
Heat geek does a very good video about heat loss that may be worth a watch 👀 but in short, the loft is usually a warm place anyway, by insulating the pipe you stop the heat leaving the pipe, you also prevent the heat from entering the pipe, works both ways.
Indeed the water heating likely would benefit in summer
You want to consider your background. It looks like you have a cone on top of your head😊
I was inspired by your video to investigate Octopus Heatpumps. There were some quite tempting price points spoken about online... some as low as £150 for an install (which is ridiculously cheap). Their own website says 'from £300'
Anyway, filled in the VERY basic online inquiry form on Octopus' website - it really doesnt ask for much info - and the instant quote price came back as £6,000 which im sure is reasonable but my install would be VERY straightforward - nowhere near as involved as yours was. Im perplexed at all these people getting even under £2,000 and who in fact gets these '£300' installs as per the website. I did ask Octopus that question but they havent responded.
It’s done via your EPC… if your EPC would improve get this done and re quote
@@NicolasRaimo I agree with Nigel. My EPC is B, I only need one radiator upgraded, I'm retaining my own tank (it 's a Mixergy tank which needs a heat exchanger fitted), there are no long pipe runs and I cam in a £2,800 even after the recent 20% discount. I am getting a Cosy 10 as opposed to a 6 though.
@ it’s based on EPC and heat loss on quote but final price may be adjusted slightly I’ve seen people with lower quoted than me
My initial quote was 750. After the survey they knocked that down to 250, as I didn’t need any pipes or radiators changing and I only needed a Daikin 4kw for my 4 bed detached house. Probably as easy as it gets.
@@MrNilOrange cough £150 if you used my referral code
Hey Nick, I had mine installed and I'm not impressed with the install quality nor the performance. My heat pump seems to be needing ~30kwh day, I suspect because my living rooms is struggling to reach the desired 21C temperature and the HP is constantly working hard. And it's not even that cold these last few days. Are you having sort of similar figures?
I use 19C in the early hours, 22C as a boost during Cosy periods (I'm in the cosy tariff), 21C the rest of the time. To me it seems like Octopus failed to assess the heat loss properly for my living room during the survey, and they are blaming my conservatory doors, windows, etc. I'm speaking to them to see if they are willing to change the large radiator in my living room to a larger one, but the attitude has been "minimum effort" unless I point out stuff.
Join the cosy octopus group on Facebook and detail all this and I’ll tag over some octopus staff, what you setting heat pump to hit when not heating… should only allow fall back of line 2-3c
@@NicolasRaimo will do, I'll speak to them first today or tomorrow
Interesting, heat geek elite did our install.
All the joints are sealed. The pipe work gets inside the house asap and theres no buffer tank as you very rarely need it - his words.
am the rare case that needs one :) see other videos where we tried without... Worth noting heat geek quote was £7500 after grant and octopus was £1350 after grant for me also
@@NicolasRaimo yup, and they only do "simple" installs in their design criteria.
They wouldnt do ours after a survey as it was too complicated. At least they are honest enough to say that.
Guess it depends how much you paid for the insulation material. I get insulation with my hello fresh deliveries which I've already used on a few pipes. Instant savings even if small. My pump and magnaclean are in more viable areas so i wont be making them look even more unsightly though
Are you reading my WhatsApp’s 😂 my mates just insulated his old water tank using hello fresh material
Man, the resolution on that Flir camera is junk!
Thanks for sharing your work.
Foil tape by itself does not insulate. It could be argued that it does the opposite and act as a conductor.
Gaffa tape is what you want for most of those joints.
Will you recoup the cost of your work? Probably not.
Does it offer good peace of mind? Definitely.
I have done the same at my place, knowing full well that it's not financially worth it but may help to eek out a few watts.
Everyone seems to mesmerised by the COP and SCOP with heat pumps, but that is only a part of the whole effeciency of a heating system. You can have a COP of 10, but if that heat produced is being wasted on heat loss from the unit, long pipe runs, uninsulated components not in the house envelope, like the loft, plus multiple defrosts every hour, you will have to use more energy to produce the same heat produced by a gas boiler in the kitchen. Thats why just comparing COP is a nonsense, there is soo much more to take into account.
I agree I did an entire video talking about how cop is only part the story you can also have a terrible cop and really cheap running costs
@NicolasRaimo or a better COP and higher costs👍
In practice, my heat pump is far cheaper to run than my gas boiler, considering the difference in energy prices for gas and electricity, that shows how massively less carbon is being emitted - the cost is taken from my energy bills, which is the real measure. Very few gas boilers attain even close to their specified efficiency in real life, whereas heat-pumps are much more closely monitored.
@MentalLentil-ev9jr How do you work out that your heat pump is cheaper though? With just the COP/SCOP, did you have a system boiler before or a Combi, did you heat your house at the same temp with boiler that you do with the heat pump, have you taken the wasted heat from defrosts into consideration, or outside pipework or have you got solar/batteries that are off setting the cost. Lot more in the mix than just COP/SCOP
Our quote was £7500 via OE, so went DIY - for a daikin 6kw monoblock, albeit for a 34 F EPC - old house (I'd like to say stately home), but the Mrs says sh1t hole/show. Currently use 1600kw / month, but with a combination of oil / electric (bivalent settings) we are at £120-£150 / month for everything (Car (500)/House (320) /ASHP(680) /Oil(100 litres) *Khw) - the insulation on your cozy system (even with a EPC of B), is just noise. Love the vlogs over the years, otherswise we would have no idea. 👍👍
Curious what it cost you to DIY