Overall a great update to the game. Am happy to see that there is a concerted effort from GW to better include those mid range fighters that saw very little use for years. I'm a bit bummed about the increase in points to Quiv and the Son's of Velmorn (mainly because I like playing them so much), but as a Hunter's of Huanchi player I'm very happy to see that points decrease for so many units. I'm still not gonna use dart pipers (I converted them to Claws anyway), but moonclubbers and horn blower will be seeing more action now that I have some point space for them.
I'm just glad the only thing with Seraphon that moved was taking out Kroxigor for the new profiles. I have a "deleted warscroll" list using minis we had that are out of the codex now. Might not be great, but nice to have some use for the minis. Glad it isn't gone.
You missed the biggest winner of the FAQ, 245pt mutilath beasts! And also shadowy recall now works on brimstone horrors, blissbarb archers and nurglings
I have been a secret admirer of the Night Haunt minis for a long time. Super excited about there being an excuse to collect them without feeling bad having them on the table.
Out of my sample size of 1 with the new points and rules; Tomb Banshee with the blessing of strength seems good with a 5/4/4/4 profile on 2 attacks with the new triple/
I think that Vulkyn flameseekers needed to be made more expensive, and aelves as a species need some major improvements still. Otherwise pretty happy. One less skeleton now fits in my Soulblight warband... they could really have gone up in cost a bit more tbh.
It's probably going to take a few weeks to get out thanks to scheduling and this pushing back a bunch of existing content but im sure that ill get to it :)
I think it's mainly a sidestep thanks to the slippery changes but I DO think that they become a real good core warband for anyone who wants a fast moving order force
I took Demons of Nurgle to the 24th April event Warhammer World and I pretty much ended up saying to every opponent on the day that they're too cheap. Increase to 60pts for plaguebearers is a good move IMO. They're a fun faction to play but going up against a faction with toughness 4 across the board AND more wounds than average AND an ability economy based almost entirely around doubles AND they outnumber you can be fairly obnoxious. I like the balance changes for the most part but I do feel that some of the points changes have been done specifically to address units that are popular allies and this has had the unfortunate effect of hitting anyone who plays those factions stand alone a bit too hard. I'd personally like to see them make allies cost something. Currently as the game stands playing a pure faction is basically gimping yourself which doesn't sit right with me.
I think that with the increasing numbers of events that are happening (and the numbers are going up on both events and attendance) they kind of had to do a mostly matched play balance update which this totally sits in (and that means addressing allies without doing a whole hog overhaul of the ally system). I understand your pov though.
Great job putting this out so quickly. There's a lot I like here] and even the stuff that affects some of my warbands negatively I think is fair. was hoping for a points drop on Flesh Hounds, but... I DON'T think any of this is enough to solve the mid-range trap though - I think mid-range units are in no better position than they were before, though you might see an additional one taking the place of a chaff unit for players who don't use blessings when they have to reduce their warband size and have some points left unspent.
I don't think that the problem will be totally solved (because that kind of needs a BIG overhaul of alot of fighters) but even with the reduction of those lists at the top by one or two fighters, it's a pretty significant change
Great Video! I for one think they went a little too far with the Kharadron. I think we will see a huge drop in their win rate because of this as now, not only did the point nerf hurt them, but fight for profit has become a conditional buff to range, one that isint that big. This has a knock on effect that aethercanons now can have 2 attacks at best per action. This means that they are next to worthless in kill missions or any mission that isint an objective mission. Treasure missions is what they could still be used but there are multiple treasure missions that damage the model that has it. so now not only do they have to GET a treasure in a pack, with their piss poor movement on the non flyers, but they have to hold it for multiple rounds. We will see an uptick in ballon lists and an overall downgrade on kharadron win rate. All this has the knock on effect that soulblight is going to win more. Their nerfs by no means break their lists and what many would say is their hard countert (range) has taken a huge beating. Range lists are now worse off in order and soulblight have an indirect buff in the form of better nighthaunt models across the board. I think the update was overall good but as an order player who enjoys range, I think this is a bit much. Also please buff drakling convens kthxbye
Excellent stuff! Ideally though I'd like to see the Blissful One get a points reduction, after all they're very similar to the Shrike Talon but are now 85 points more expensive, and it would be nice if the non-chimera monsters got re-assessed too.
Nice to see somethings get adjusted and that the game is getting some attention. Hopefully, they take a look at Skaven moving forward. No point adjustment for the leaders and troops after the nerfs to lead from the back. Worse is that the Giant Rat didn't get a point slash with it sitting at the same point level as a clear number of better choices. The Kreep Kinwisper model having a giant net in hand without rules for it really sucks.
I totally agree on giant rats. However I'd like to see what the impact is on the changes before doing anything else; I do think that just by virtue of stuff at the top being hit, other warbands will look better in comparison. For example, I've been using stormvermin recently to great effect (coming to an event near you!) And stormfiends didn't get hit at all
If you are a beginner I wouldn't worry too much about the hits (the Brewgit was hit thanks to everyone using it and Prog because it was just cheaper then the other alternatives and way better). Gitz have the problem that their basic boys are made of paper with low toughness and only 6 wounds though they do have some very good pieces in the Bounder boss and can use trolls to good effect.
The general rule of thumb for events is to use whatever the most uptodate base is supplied with the miniature, so the big boy in this case. At Warhammer World we use the big base, but its always worth checking with your TO about it. Casually, it might not matter so much but the base size is definitely a consideration when moving the mini around the board, especially with terrain.
@@OffMetaMusings they are quite solid. Yet in this update GW forgot to include them in the Grand Alliance allegiance list. And they have two abilities - Shield Ram and Brutal Swing - that have issues (in my opinion). Both of those abilities have direct equivalents in some Compendium warbands, like Shield Ram from Slaves to Darkness or Spire Tyrants or Beheading Strike from Soulblight Gravelords and Scions of the Flame. The issue here is the fact that for all those warbands those abilities were updated for the 2nd edition, but the Chaos Legionnaires somehow got wordings from the 1st edition, making those abilities of the Legionnaires worse than essentially the same abilities in other warbands. Maybe it’s a question of balancing abilities, but the fact that they were not included in the Grand Alliance allegiance list makes me think they were in fact forgotten
@@OffMetaMusings they discontinued cities of sigmar with the usual human bowmen etc. -- but basically all of these were more expensive than these guys are now.
Thinking about building a Warcry team based on WWE wrestling. Already got gorehulk cause he literally does an overhead smash off the top rope. Thinking Lord of Hubris dressed like hulk Hogan since he begged people to hit him in the head. Goes with his new double. Already got people that pull people toward them similar to throwing against the ropes. Any ideas?
@@OffMetaMusings true and if they weren't being squatted I probably would include them. So far I've got dromm, gorehulk, and lord of hubris. Scouring abilities looking to see if there is anyone that can throw people like a body slam or something.
Still a lot of underperforming units not touched, DOK remain in a bad way. Not the big faction by faction unit by unit overhaul I was hoping for. But GW is GW best to keep expectations low.
to be fair, there are ALOT of profiles in warcry (knocking on nearly 2k fighters now) so they have to start somewhere. I think that its a good first step.
@@aspdenmark Daughters of Khaine A.K.A. Murder elves. Very squishy and overcosted with low damage output, completely not addressed in the FAQ. I am not at all salty about it btw 😠
Well was not rly, you could stuck several fighters for the whole fight if terrain allowed it and used smartly. I would say it was actually an OP ability.
Under the previous wording it basically lasts until the end of the game so you could use it turn 1 and then have it alive forever which makes for a VERY strong control piece.
Failed to fix allies, while also punishing people playing fluff lists 2/10 at best, does also feel like GW are trying to fix the abuses of the top few % of the competitive players at the cost of everyone else.
Fix allies rune mark all buffs and you fix allies. People running Brewgit in destruction soup are the issue not an all goblin list that has him in it as well.
Active planning and support for future Warcry stuff confirmed
Yeah this is probably the biggest takeaway from both the balance update and GW's article/video about it.
They did it. They put Theridons in Warcry. My work here is done.
Im so excited for NH. The Frightful Touch change is huge to open up the faction
Super stoked to start cooking with then!
Overall a great update to the game. Am happy to see that there is a concerted effort from GW to better include those mid range fighters that saw very little use for years. I'm a bit bummed about the increase in points to Quiv and the Son's of Velmorn (mainly because I like playing them so much), but as a Hunter's of Huanchi player I'm very happy to see that points decrease for so many units. I'm still not gonna use dart pipers (I converted them to Claws anyway), but moonclubbers and horn blower will be seeing more action now that I have some point space for them.
I'm just glad the only thing with Seraphon that moved was taking out Kroxigor for the new profiles. I have a "deleted warscroll" list using minis we had that are out of the codex now. Might not be great, but nice to have some use for the minis. Glad it isn't gone.
Thanks for the quick vid!
LETS GOOOO BOIS!!!!
Behold the power of templates and A.I. assisted editing! Truly the machine revolution is here!
You missed the biggest winner of the FAQ, 245pt mutilath beasts! And also shadowy recall now works on brimstone horrors, blissbarb archers and nurglings
I have been a secret admirer of the Night Haunt minis for a long time. Super excited about there being an excuse to collect them without feeling bad having them on the table.
Out of my sample size of 1 with the new points and rules; Tomb Banshee with the blessing of strength seems good with a 5/4/4/4 profile on 2 attacks with the new triple/
And Ardboyz got ignored... again... but otherwise really pleased with the update!
I think that Vulkyn flameseekers needed to be made more expensive, and aelves as a species need some major improvements still. Otherwise pretty happy. One less skeleton now fits in my Soulblight warband... they could really have gone up in cost a bit more tbh.
My Nighthaunt heart is excited to see what we can do with new Frightful Touch and some point reductions!
My mind is buzzing for them! Planning on (another) video specifically brewing with the new profiles
Great Video huge changes! are you going to do split one with the new units added and how it could impact in the meta?
Waiting your next video!
It's probably going to take a few weeks to get out thanks to scheduling and this pushing back a bunch of existing content but im sure that ill get to it :)
I’m actually surprised they left the Centurion Marshall alone
Maybe next time :) I'm hopeful that they will start doing more from John's video
Yeah! Excited my Hunter of Huanchi got a little bump! Looking forward to trying out some new list!
I think it's mainly a sidestep thanks to the slippery changes but I DO think that they become a real good core warband for anyone who wants a fast moving order force
@@OffMetaMusings That slippery change is such a big kick in the ass for Hunters and Wildercorps.
I took Demons of Nurgle to the 24th April event Warhammer World and I pretty much ended up saying to every opponent on the day that they're too cheap. Increase to 60pts for plaguebearers is a good move IMO. They're a fun faction to play but going up against a faction with toughness 4 across the board AND more wounds than average AND an ability economy based almost entirely around doubles AND they outnumber you can be fairly obnoxious.
I like the balance changes for the most part but I do feel that some of the points changes have been done specifically to address units that are popular allies and this has had the unfortunate effect of hitting anyone who plays those factions stand alone a bit too hard. I'd personally like to see them make allies cost something. Currently as the game stands playing a pure faction is basically gimping yourself which doesn't sit right with me.
I think that with the increasing numbers of events that are happening (and the numbers are going up on both events and attendance) they kind of had to do a mostly matched play balance update which this totally sits in (and that means addressing allies without doing a whole hog overhaul of the ally system). I understand your pov though.
@@OffMetaMusings Oh yeah this isn't the kind of change I expect from a PDF, it's the kind of thing I want to see in the next edition.
Great job putting this out so quickly. There's a lot I like here] and even the stuff that affects some of my warbands negatively I think is fair. was hoping for a points drop on Flesh Hounds, but... I DON'T think any of this is enough to solve the mid-range trap though - I think mid-range units are in no better position than they were before, though you might see an additional one taking the place of a chaff unit for players who don't use blessings when they have to reduce their warband size and have some points left unspent.
I don't think that the problem will be totally solved (because that kind of needs a BIG overhaul of alot of fighters) but even with the reduction of those lists at the top by one or two fighters, it's a pretty significant change
Great Video! I for one think they went a little too far with the Kharadron. I think we will see a huge drop in their win rate because of this as now, not only did the point nerf hurt them, but fight for profit has become a conditional buff to range, one that isint that big. This has a knock on effect that aethercanons now can have 2 attacks at best per action. This means that they are next to worthless in kill missions or any mission that isint an objective mission. Treasure missions is what they could still be used but there are multiple treasure missions that damage the model that has it. so now not only do they have to GET a treasure in a pack, with their piss poor movement on the non flyers, but they have to hold it for multiple rounds. We will see an uptick in ballon lists and an overall downgrade on kharadron win rate.
All this has the knock on effect that soulblight is going to win more. Their nerfs by no means break their lists and what many would say is their hard countert (range) has taken a huge beating. Range lists are now worse off in order and soulblight have an indirect buff in the form of better nighthaunt models across the board. I think the update was overall good but as an order player who enjoys range, I think this is a bit much.
Also please buff drakling convens kthxbye
Excellent stuff! Ideally though I'd like to see the Blissful One get a points reduction, after all they're very similar to the Shrike Talon but are now 85 points more expensive, and it would be nice if the non-chimera monsters got re-assessed too.
yeah after the shrike talon decreases im itching to see the blissful one get some love too!
Nice to see somethings get adjusted and that the game is getting some attention. Hopefully, they take a look at Skaven moving forward. No point adjustment for the leaders and troops after the nerfs to lead from the back. Worse is that the Giant Rat didn't get a point slash with it sitting at the same point level as a clear number of better choices. The Kreep Kinwisper model having a giant net in hand without rules for it really sucks.
I totally agree on giant rats. However I'd like to see what the impact is on the changes before doing anything else; I do think that just by virtue of stuff at the top being hit, other warbands will look better in comparison. For example, I've been using stormvermin recently to great effect (coming to an event near you!) And stormfiends didn't get hit at all
Ah... The Gorechosen got the ability that Corvus Cabal should have gotten... Nice. 😅
Apparently, a bunch of 8w 1/3 damage guys jumping off things are too strong XD
Seems like a good time to get into Warcry. Been looking into for it a while, how would you say Gitz are for a complete beginner despite their nerfs?
If you are a beginner I wouldn't worry too much about the hits (the Brewgit was hit thanks to everyone using it and Prog because it was just cheaper then the other alternatives and way better). Gitz have the problem that their basic boys are made of paper with low toughness and only 6 wounds though they do have some very good pieces in the Bounder boss and can use trolls to good effect.
arkanaut and plaguebearer needed to go up the same points
I think it depends on the context of the fighters tbh. Though I'm real positive that we might see more metawatches in the future so there is time :)
What’s going on with the Slann? Should I use the old 50mm base one or the 80mm at a big competitive tournament like GenCon
The general rule of thumb for events is to use whatever the most uptodate base is supplied with the miniature, so the big boy in this case. At Warhammer World we use the big base, but its always worth checking with your TO about it. Casually, it might not matter so much but the base size is definitely a consideration when moving the mini around the board, especially with terrain.
I think they forgot that Chaos Legionnaires exist :D Great video, thank you!
I've always seen them as a real solid warband
@@OffMetaMusings they are quite solid. Yet in this update GW forgot to include them in the Grand Alliance allegiance list. And they have two abilities - Shield Ram and Brutal Swing - that have issues (in my opinion). Both of those abilities have direct equivalents in some Compendium warbands, like Shield Ram from Slaves to Darkness or Spire Tyrants or Beheading Strike from Soulblight Gravelords and Scions of the Flame. The issue here is the fact that for all those warbands those abilities were updated for the 2nd edition, but the Chaos Legionnaires somehow got wordings from the 1st edition, making those abilities of the Legionnaires worse than essentially the same abilities in other warbands. Maybe it’s a question of balancing abilities, but the fact that they were not included in the Grand Alliance allegiance list makes me think they were in fact forgotten
with the tzeentch guys, the ungor with bow should also have gotten a points reduction, yes?
I think that Tzeentch are in a rougher spot at the moment then beastmen so i can see why they were chosen first.
@@OffMetaMusings they discontinued cities of sigmar with the usual human bowmen etc. -- but basically all of these were more expensive than these guys are now.
Thinking about building a Warcry team based on WWE wrestling. Already got gorehulk cause he literally does an overhead smash off the top rope. Thinking Lord of Hubris dressed like hulk Hogan since he begged people to hit him in the head. Goes with his new double. Already got people that pull people toward them similar to throwing against the ropes. Any ideas?
If you want to do more top rope stuff you can build them out of corvus cabal thanks to the massive points break the shrike talon got
@@OffMetaMusings true and if they weren't being squatted I probably would include them. So far I've got dromm, gorehulk, and lord of hubris. Scouring abilities looking to see if there is anyone that can throw people like a body slam or something.
Haven't played a lot of Warcry yet. Can I use the new Slann (bigger base)?
Yes! It's widely accepted that you use the most current base that the mini is supplied with; I've been using the big base slaan in all my games :)
Will you review the new fighters?
Eventually I plan to but there is ALOT of stuff to cover :)
Wow, Cypherlords support!
ngl, the ability to teleport any minion might be interesting as an ally option.
Warcry is dieing... lol, making those people look even sillier now. Great video! Thanks for putting it out so quick
Glad you enjoyed
fyreslayas
@@aspdenmark Ah right, nothing new in terms of points changes but they did get a new character.
Still a lot of underperforming units not touched, DOK remain in a bad way. Not the big faction by faction unit by unit overhaul I was hoping for. But GW is GW best to keep expectations low.
to be fair, there are ALOT of profiles in warcry (knocking on nearly 2k fighters now) so they have to start somewhere. I think that its a good first step.
what is dok?
@@aspdenmark Daughters of Khaine A.K.A. Murder elves. Very squishy and overcosted with low damage output, completely not addressed in the FAQ. I am not at all salty about it btw 😠
@@aspdenmark Disciples of Khaine
Did I miss Fyre changes?
Fyre?
@@OffMetaMusings Fyreslayers
BuT wArCy Is DeAd
WARCRY IS TURNING INTO MORDHEIM!
Face me cowards is a trash triple.
Well was not rly, you could stuck several fighters for the whole fight if terrain allowed it and used smartly. I would say it was actually an OP ability.
Under the previous wording it basically lasts until the end of the game so you could use it turn 1 and then have it alive forever which makes for a VERY strong control piece.
Failed to fix allies, while also punishing people playing fluff lists 2/10 at best, does also feel like GW are trying to fix the abuses of the top few % of the competitive players at the cost of everyone else.
I don't understand how it punishes fluff lists? Surely addressing those units that are over the top helps everyone no?
Fix allies rune mark all buffs and you fix allies. People running Brewgit in destruction soup are the issue not an all goblin list that has him in it as well.