-Red dots are an iron sight substitute, at distance magnification is king, but if the question is home defense then distance is minimal. -Your first AR probably shouldn't be a pin and weld, but to each their own. It comes with complications a new person should avoid, but if you really enjoy diving into the deep end of the pool go for it I guess. -55 grain NATO rounds are fine. Plenty of people have dropped plenty of other people with FMJ rounds. Are there better rounds? Sure. Are they _necessary_ ? Absolutely not. -Once you go the NFA (or crime, crime is valid) route, the 10.5/11.5 with a can becomes the sweetest little 5.56 set-up. SOCOM has used the suppressed 10.5 for years to great effect, it works just fine. -I prefer vertical grips because they can be used as a hand stop or barrier stop, _BUT_ can also just be grabbed like a beer can if the rail gets too hot to hold. Sometimes you just don't have gloves.
Yeah you definitely don’t need a LPVO for home defense, or any defense gun. The judge won’t be impressed at how far you can shoot. If you need magnification to see them, they aren’t a threat.
I might be the odd one out here but my 16-inch 300 Blk Out is my multi purpose platform. Home defense, hunting, you name it. Works exceptionally well with both supers and subs and that versatility is unbeatable.
About the ony downside is the price of ammo. Though I'll admit that's been improving. A couple years ago I would've argued an AR in 7.62x39 would've been a nice option. Then you'd have a nice home defense gun that you can also cheaply practice with. Sadly that's been less of a thing with sanctions and the whole unpleasantness in Eastern Europe.
Getting into an AR for HD can be bit of a learning experience for a new owner. I only recently decided an AR would be a good HD platform. I had a 16-inch AR15, but when I decided to go HD with an AR, I had one bult for just that. The 10.5, now an 8.2 is in 300 Blackout. Over the years of shooting the 300 I have given up on the idea of using subs for defense. opting for suppressed supers in 110 to 125 grain varmint rounds. The best may be Tac-TX, but they are more costly
Just a comment concerning subsonic 300blk and effectiveness. On a recent hog hunting trip I shot a raccoon with a 190gr Sub-x factory load. I knew the range to the target (87 yards) and dialed for elevation, perfect shoulder hit. When I went to retrieve the coon I realized he had died from blunt force trauma not penetration. I found 1/2 of the bullet was sticking out of his fur because it was stopped by the impact with the shoulder blade. It expanded well and held together just didn't make it thru to any vitals. I don't believe there was anything wrong with the round because it hit were expected, just not enough energy to pass through. Switched back to supers, 110gr Barnes, for the remainder of the hog hunt that night. Might be ok at significantly shorter distances not sure it the best choice for home defense. Just one man's experience.
This was an excellent discussion. It would have been helpful for your guest to describe what he had on each of the AR’s, their function, and their utility in an HD scenario.
Thing about a pinned and weld is they are committed to that muzzle device they need to research what they want later on and if they want to suppress or not
Use a linear compensator. It doesn’t need to be timed and you can unthread it anytime for your suppressor. Also- it directs that sound toward the target.
@@richardmcdonald4190 it won’t help much indoors. But it doesn’t need to be timed with a crush washer. So, it can be removed and placed back on with ease. You DEFINITELY don’t want a crush washer under your silencer.
@@TheSkeptic000 I was debating trying the flash can at my indoor range to see what it would sound like, but I'll take your word for it. My one for all suppressor is 300 WM rated and makes my 8.2-inch pistol have 18.2 inches of barrel. It is quiet and hearing safe, as I have shot it indoors w/o ear pro several times. It's not handy, or quick maneuvering at that length, but I don't anticipate room clearing at this point in my life.
@@richardmcdonald4190 a silencer on your rifle is a good thing indoors. I would let that silencer live on your favorite rifle. Keep it close. The same way you would keep a good blade on your side.
Good discussion. I have to say though that I'm not using a 5.56 for internal home defense. If your plan is to only have one AR then 5.56, but if you plan on having at least two, then I go with 10.5" Blackout suppressed. 5.56 suppressed in a house is still a bad idea for you and your loved ones hearing.
5.56 suppressed is significantly quieter than a 9mm handgun or 12 ga shotgun, yet no one is ever worried about blowing their famille’s ears out with those. Subsonic 300 BO is basically a .45 acp, while I wouldn’t want to be shot with one, a good 5.56x45 (aka not m855) will cause significantly more terminal damage while reducing the amount of house it will pass through should you miss a few shots. I love my 300 BO with supersonics, but it lives in my truck safe, while the suppressed 5.56 lives in the under-bed safe. The supersonic 300 BO suppressed is every bit as loud (which is about like a 22lr) as the 5.56 suppressed.
@21:40 I'm surprised it didn't get brought up when talking about 223 vs 5.56.... A barrel designed for 5.56 just means that it is rated for a higher chamber pressure. You can shoot 223 out of a 5.56 gun no problem. I wouldn't pick a regular 223 barrel, but 223 wylde if you are going that route. It gets you the slightly tighter tolerances, and the ability to shoot 5.56 since it is also rated for the extra chamber pressure. Also, some ar's can be finicky. So it's important to make sure it cycles your defence ammo well. You might have to change buffer springs. Also, it didn't get mentioned when talking about suppressors, but having a charging handle designed to minimize gas blowback into your face is a pretty good idea. Suppressors can also change how the gun runs and you'll probably have to tune the gun to cycle correctly with it. So especially if you are pin and welding a muzzle device, make sure you have a good adjustable gas block since you are committing to it. You would have to remove the welded on flash hider if you need to change it out later.
Here's lesson one. ARs are the wrong choice for most home defense. You are going to fire high power rifle rounds in a neighborhood? Get a shotgun if you have a house larger than an average 3 bedroom. 00 Buck will be your most common choice, but I like #4 buckshot at close range and in apartments. Shooting through walls is always a concern. Smaller stand-alone homes, I like a 9mm with a light. More maneuverable in tight quarters. Put a light on your shotgun, too. Anyways, my two cents.
I think what Mark was getting at with the muzzle flash (and they may still get to this later on) is the muzzle flash difference between a 556 and 300 BO out of shorter barrels like the 10.3
Quad rail weight: As I tried to tell someone the other day, MLOK being lighter than picatinny needs context. For the 10" BCM hand guards, there's a whole massive, whopping, (drum roll) 3 oz of difference between a naked MLOK vs a naked quad. For the Daniels rails it's a massive, whopping 4oz of difference between the naked MLOK vs the naked QUAD. Yes, if you're going to get a handguard that isnt a quad, get an MLOK. KeyMod sucks, Crane says so, but weight as a proper concern is kind of a moot point unless you're really doing an ultralite build imo.
3 or 4 ounces less weight at the business end of an AR is definitely notable, especially in conjunction with a few other basic weight saving measures you can take by simply buying one part versus another. Say you have a BCM Mlok rail that is 3 ounces lighter than a quad rail, PLUS you get an aimpoint T2 (3 ounces, plus a scalarworks or Unity mount, another 2.5 - 3 ounces) instead of an Eotech, which typically weigh 10 ounces? You saved another 3 or 4 ounces with your optic setup. Say you opt for an 18350 weapon light body instead of an 18650 body - that saves you another ounce and a half or so, and as a side note, you retain rechargeable batteries over cr123. Throw in forged aluminum ALG sling swivels instead of steel swivels and use an Arisaka aluminum female-end QD mount instead of a steel mount and you actually drop another couple ounces - altogether, your gun at that point is actually approaching three quarters of a pound in weight savings by being mindful of your rail, optic, light and sling QD choices. That's a big difference when you're carrying/practicing/training with it for longer periods of time. Helps to go longer before experiencing inevitable muscle fatigue.
@@rivercityracer3683 until you remember that all those parts also go on the quad rail rifle, so the end result between 2 identical setups is still only 3 oz. Until you start trying to mount things to the handguard, then one needs mlok rail adapters that the quad doesnt need, hence why the weight savings of a massive 3 oz needs context and not just saying "quad rail heavy".
I think that it is misunderstood that the small fast bullets are over-penetrating strictly because of their speed. In reality, the heavier bullets carry their energy better and have been proven to have more over-penetration through barrier like walls, windshields, etc. .223/5.56 is a great option when worried about over-penetration because the light bullet dumps so much energy so quickly.
I have one of those door stops and you can also just drop it over the one of the hinges and allows the door to never close without having to bend over to the ground
My $.02 from owning a 14.5" BCM middy: IF you're going to opt for a 14.5; build it yourself or be certain that you're satisfied with its configuration. That pin is a PITA.
Never thought about a brake really effecting my situational awareness. I know I’ve been on the side of some crazy brakes while ROing and they do really have some concussive impact
I reckon we owe a debt of gratitude to Mr. Stoner . We are all brothers in arms . Thanks for all the great info .
-Red dots are an iron sight substitute, at distance magnification is king, but if the question is home defense then distance is minimal.
-Your first AR probably shouldn't be a pin and weld, but to each their own. It comes with complications a new person should avoid, but if you really enjoy diving into the deep end of the pool go for it I guess.
-55 grain NATO rounds are fine. Plenty of people have dropped plenty of other people with FMJ rounds. Are there better rounds? Sure. Are they _necessary_ ? Absolutely not.
-Once you go the NFA (or crime, crime is valid) route, the 10.5/11.5 with a can becomes the sweetest little 5.56 set-up. SOCOM has used the suppressed 10.5 for years to great effect, it works just fine.
-I prefer vertical grips because they can be used as a hand stop or barrier stop, _BUT_ can also just be grabbed like a beer can if the rail gets too hot to hold. Sometimes you just don't have gloves.
Yeah you definitely don’t need a LPVO for home defense, or any defense gun. The judge won’t be impressed at how far you can shoot. If you need magnification to see them, they aren’t a threat.
I might be the odd one out here but my 16-inch 300 Blk Out is my multi purpose platform. Home defense, hunting, you name it. Works exceptionally well with both supers and subs and that versatility is unbeatable.
About the ony downside is the price of ammo. Though I'll admit that's been improving. A couple years ago I would've argued an AR in 7.62x39 would've been a nice option. Then you'd have a nice home defense gun that you can also cheaply practice with. Sadly that's been less of a thing with sanctions and the whole unpleasantness in Eastern Europe.
Same. And with regards to cost of ammo - you can find plinking stuff cheap enough. Or, reload for half the cost.
@@rhekman I’ve got an AK that has not seen the range in a long time for that very reason. It’s unfortunate but getting better like you said
@@pogeegitz Absolutely! I’m going to start down that rabbit hole later this year
Do you also have a short 300? If so, do a chronograph test with them both as well as accuracy.
Vortex knows their stuff. Listen to these guys
Love having someone come out and explain the options you can try out for your ease of use
So happy to hear you enjoyed the episode, Ross! Thanks for tuning in!
I really enjoy listening to them and how versatile the AR platform is
I’d love to see a discussion of AR pistols/SBRs vs NFA-free bullpups for shorter home-defense setups.
the discussion is that bullpups are superior
Yea, bullpups suck. End of discussion.
Getting into an AR for HD can be bit of a learning experience for a new owner. I only recently decided an AR would be a good HD platform. I had a 16-inch AR15, but when I decided to go HD with an AR, I had one bult for just that. The 10.5, now an 8.2 is in 300 Blackout. Over the years of shooting the 300 I have given up on the idea of using subs for defense. opting for suppressed supers in 110 to 125 grain varmint rounds. The best may be Tac-TX, but they are more costly
..VELOCITY is your friend, ESPECIALLY for home-defense..or CQ
Seems like a waste of time using super 300blk for home defence when 7.62x39 exists.
@@lucasvaughn629that’s a much bigger and heavier platform for starters because it’s not near as reliable in the ar platform
Love your channel guys , I always learn something. I loved that episode when you had the mechanical engineer on talking about AR-22’s
Thanks for the support my friend! Glad you enjoy tuning in 👊 more to come!
Learn something new every day.
One thing I found interesting they didn’t touch on is they are both the same overall length with the cans on so you might as well get more velocity
These guys are smart and I'm always learning. I'm a 300BO fan myself.
Appreciate you listening in!
300 blk has come a long way since 2010. It's a wonderful versatile cartridge
Please link to where we can get the door stops
Just a comment concerning subsonic 300blk and effectiveness. On a recent hog hunting trip I shot a raccoon with a 190gr Sub-x factory load. I knew the range to the target (87 yards) and dialed for elevation, perfect shoulder hit. When I went to retrieve the coon I realized he had died from blunt force trauma not penetration. I found 1/2 of the bullet was sticking out of his fur because it was stopped by the impact with the shoulder blade. It expanded well and held together just didn't make it thru to any vitals. I don't believe there was anything wrong with the round because it hit were expected, just not enough energy to pass through. Switched back to supers, 110gr Barnes, for the remainder of the hog hunt that night. Might be ok at significantly shorter distances not sure it the best choice for home defense. Just one man's experience.
This was an excellent discussion. It would have been helpful for your guest to describe what he had on each of the AR’s, their function, and their utility in an HD scenario.
I really appreciate the door stop discussion.
All of the information from these guy definitely helps out when try to set up a home defense weapon
The AR platform options are nearly limitless. thanks for clarifying it for this specific need.
Always enjoy different takes & listen to viewpoints from knowledgeable peoples.
I always enjoy the opinion of people in the know. I’m not new but still learning. Thanks guys!
Thank you for listening!
Never ending debate love the info “to the more you know “
Lots of good tips and pointers throughout the the video
Thing about a pinned and weld is they are committed to that muzzle device they need to research what they want later on and if they want to suppress or not
Great info on why an AR platform is so versatile!
This is years worth of good info. Something here for the beginner, all the way up to the past-master.
Appreciate that feedback, Brad! Thanks for tuning in 👊
Use a linear compensator. It doesn’t need to be timed and you can unthread it anytime for your suppressor.
Also- it directs that sound toward the target.
I have a Flash can on my 300, but I question i that's enough of a diversion of the sound to save my hearing indoors.
@@richardmcdonald4190 it won’t help much indoors. But it doesn’t need to be timed with a crush washer. So, it can be removed and placed back on with ease. You DEFINITELY don’t want a crush washer under your silencer.
@@TheSkeptic000 I was debating trying the flash can at my indoor range to see what it would sound like, but I'll take your word for it. My one for all suppressor is 300 WM rated and makes my 8.2-inch pistol have 18.2 inches of barrel. It is quiet and hearing safe, as I have shot it indoors w/o ear pro several times. It's not handy, or quick maneuvering at that length, but I don't anticipate room clearing at this point in my life.
@@richardmcdonald4190 a silencer on your rifle is a good thing indoors. I would let that silencer live on your favorite rifle. Keep it close. The same way you would keep a good blade on your side.
@@TheSkeptic000 Sometimes you have to just stick to what you know. You're right and I generally leave the CAN on
Yes
I actually really enjoy this podcast
I always learn something new on these shows.
Great points made about lights and flashes in a self defense situation. You don't want to reveal where you are tell that last second.
Good discussion. I have to say though that I'm not using a 5.56 for internal home defense. If your plan is to only have one AR then 5.56, but if you plan on having at least two, then I go with 10.5" Blackout suppressed. 5.56 suppressed in a house is still a bad idea for you and your loved ones hearing.
Hearing loss is better then using a substandard option and not being able to stop the threat fast enough
@@zack9912000 I can't imagine someone still coming at you after a blackout round at 15ft, regardless of where you hit them.
5.56 suppressed is significantly quieter than a 9mm handgun or 12 ga shotgun, yet no one is ever worried about blowing their famille’s ears out with those.
Subsonic 300 BO is basically a .45 acp, while I wouldn’t want to be shot with one, a good 5.56x45 (aka not m855) will cause significantly more terminal damage while reducing the amount of house it will pass through should you miss a few shots. I love my 300 BO with supersonics, but it lives in my truck safe, while the suppressed 5.56 lives in the under-bed safe. The supersonic 300 BO suppressed is every bit as loud (which is about like a 22lr) as the 5.56 suppressed.
Always appreciate this type of info. My AR is next to my bed and ready to go.
Very informative, inspiring, and insightful conversation.
We're glad you enjoyed it, Richard! Thanks so much for tuning in!
Great information. Gorgeous rifle setups.
Always good information from this channel.
righteous
Very informative usage on the AR platform.
Beautiful setups
@21:40 I'm surprised it didn't get brought up when talking about 223 vs 5.56.... A barrel designed for 5.56 just means that it is rated for a higher chamber pressure. You can shoot 223 out of a 5.56 gun no problem. I wouldn't pick a regular 223 barrel, but 223 wylde if you are going that route. It gets you the slightly tighter tolerances, and the ability to shoot 5.56 since it is also rated for the extra chamber pressure.
Also, some ar's can be finicky. So it's important to make sure it cycles your defence ammo well. You might have to change buffer springs.
Also, it didn't get mentioned when talking about suppressors, but having a charging handle designed to minimize gas blowback into your face is a pretty good idea. Suppressors can also change how the gun runs and you'll probably have to tune the gun to cycle correctly with it. So especially if you are pin and welding a muzzle device, make sure you have a good adjustable gas block since you are committing to it. You would have to remove the welded on flash hider if you need to change it out later.
I'm new to AR platforms and accessories so all of this information is really great for me as I still have a lot to learn!
Here's lesson one. ARs are the wrong choice for most home defense. You are going to fire high power rifle rounds in a neighborhood? Get a shotgun if you have a house larger than an average 3 bedroom. 00 Buck will be your most common choice, but I like #4 buckshot at close range and in apartments. Shooting through walls is always a concern. Smaller stand-alone homes, I like a 9mm with a light. More maneuverable in tight quarters. Put a light on your shotgun, too. Anyways, my two cents.
Top tier podcast
I think what Mark was getting at with the muzzle flash (and they may still get to this later on) is the muzzle flash difference between a 556 and 300 BO out of shorter barrels like the 10.3
Always learning something new!!
Quad rail weight:
As I tried to tell someone the other day, MLOK being lighter than picatinny needs context.
For the 10" BCM hand guards, there's a whole massive, whopping, (drum roll) 3 oz of difference between a naked MLOK vs a naked quad.
For the Daniels rails it's a massive, whopping 4oz of difference between the naked MLOK vs the naked QUAD.
Yes, if you're going to get a handguard that isnt a quad, get an MLOK. KeyMod sucks, Crane says so, but weight as a proper concern is kind of a moot point unless you're really doing an ultralite build imo.
3 or 4 ounces less weight at the business end of an AR is definitely notable, especially in conjunction with a few other basic weight saving measures you can take by simply buying one part versus another.
Say you have a BCM Mlok rail that is 3 ounces lighter than a quad rail, PLUS you get an aimpoint T2 (3 ounces, plus a scalarworks or Unity mount, another 2.5 - 3 ounces) instead of an Eotech, which typically weigh 10 ounces? You saved another 3 or 4 ounces with your optic setup.
Say you opt for an 18350 weapon light body instead of an 18650 body - that saves you another ounce and a half or so, and as a side note, you retain rechargeable batteries over cr123.
Throw in forged aluminum ALG sling swivels instead of steel swivels and use an Arisaka aluminum female-end QD mount instead of a steel mount and you actually drop another couple ounces - altogether, your gun at that point is actually approaching three quarters of a pound in weight savings by being mindful of your rail, optic, light and sling QD choices.
That's a big difference when you're carrying/practicing/training with it for longer periods of time. Helps to go longer before experiencing inevitable muscle fatigue.
@@rivercityracer3683 until you remember that all those parts also go on the quad rail rifle, so the end result between 2 identical setups is still only 3 oz.
Until you start trying to mount things to the handguard, then one needs mlok rail adapters that the quad doesnt need, hence why the weight savings of a massive 3 oz needs context and not just saying "quad rail heavy".
Love the channel guys!!!
Appreciate you tuning in!
I think that it is misunderstood that the small fast bullets are over-penetrating strictly because of their speed. In reality, the heavier bullets carry their energy better and have been proven to have more over-penetration through barrier like walls, windshields, etc. .223/5.56 is a great option when worried about over-penetration because the light bullet dumps so much energy so quickly.
This video is packed with info. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for tuning in!
Great video. Love these.
Keep it up guys! This is helping me setup my home firearms.
Right on!
I have one of those door stops and you can also just drop it over the one of the hinges and allows the door to never close without having to bend over to the ground
I currently own 3 Vortex Optics, love ‘em
Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation!
Great episode!
Always enjoy the content
Happy to hear that! Thanks for tuning in!
Great build
Great show and channel guys. I enjoy the information and have a 300 Blkout for home defense
.
You really have great knowledge of guns
My $.02 from owning a 14.5" BCM middy: IF you're going to opt for a 14.5; build it yourself or be certain that you're satisfied with its configuration. That pin is a PITA.
The versatility of this platform can be used by anyone to meet their specific needs!
Really informative guys! Always enjoy your learning from your videos!
Thanks for tuning in!
Great episode gents, lots of great info and perspectives.
Vortex makes some high quality products.
🤜 🤛
Hop just did a vortex video.
Very Informative, and a nice reference sheet to boot!
Good conversation. Lot's of good info here
Nicely done
Great work!
Awesome stuff!
Enjoyed listening to others about some builds
Always learn something new!
That looks fun!
Nice weapon and I can't wait to get one.
My POF revolution is so loud and powerful it's crazy, would never want to fire it inside especially without ears, you would be def
Nice looking rig.
Great products facing fierce competition these days.
Great discussion as always!
Chris is the man. Great topics covered.
He is the man! Thanks for tuning in!
Sweet setups
vortex has great products!
A lot of insightful and informative content.
Great discussion. Really good talking points. Would’ve liked to here more on ballistics on popular home defense cartridges.
Definitely something we can look into for future episodes!
Something we can certainly explore getting into in the future for you! Appreciate the feedback!
Very informative!!! I want those rifles!
Love the information 👍
Great episode
Great video; full of information!
Thanks for the great content! I'm always looking for new ideas or new takes on old ones.
Some great ideas here, thank you!
BOTH of those AR'S are so fine, I would love to own one outfitted this nice. I think there perfect for home defense...
Informative stuff.
Nice package!
Great information, love your channel
Always Great Info 🇺🇸
Never thought about a brake really effecting my situational awareness. I know I’ve been on the side of some crazy brakes while ROing and they do really have some concussive impact
Very helpful discussion
Love watching your videos. I learn so much.
Thanks for the information, need to get a suppressor !!!
I use to just chop my vertical grips in half. I do like the newer bcm slightly slanted vertical grips. And I still love my quad rails.
Thanks for all the great info.
Really good information
new too....very good info
Definitely interesting, and good to know.