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1801 Winding Star (Faulhaber) Coils And Making Litz Wire
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
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in power tool motors the magnets are set at angles to coincide with the angle of the copper.
the angle magnets in electric motors to reduce the caulking effect that way there's less slowing the motor down, makes it react more like a coreless motor with higher RPM in way better and remained almost same torque
I'm seriously jealous of your huge roll of copper wire! 😮😆
An me!! Wouldn’t be cheap tho
Monthly payment’s are available
Spool envy...
@@mrnobody2873 Now we KNOW we're a crowd of geeks, what? 🤓🤓🤓
If more classroom teachers taught with the same joyous enthusiasm as you, students would learn much better than they do, Because you teach love OF the subject, not just the subject - and you do that with your sheer unbridled exuberance, demonstrating your love for what you're doing. Once someone is hooked by love for a subject, there's nothing they cannot learn About it. That is your gift.
Love the extra detail and information about how stuff works and showing it almost all the way through. ❤ keep it up!
I am extremely glad I fell upon your channel. The subjects you talk about are always interesting, and informative. Keep up the great content creation.
I'm really excited 😁 too see you covering this topic. I hope you do some on liner generator also. Thank you Robert for being such an Inspiration and explaining electric generation.. A+
Looking forward to seeing the results. Very cool Rob!
Fascinating! Looking forward to seeing how it all works out!
I LOVE this stuff, I became fascinated with axial-flux motors and litz-wire when designing one of the many thousands of abandoned robot-wars entries that litter the world lol.
I wondered why the little drone motors had that kind of coil/wrapping pattern. But never looked into it. Thanks, Rob! :)
I have been trying to figure out how to make my farm more self-sufficient and this channel has basically all the ideas I've thought of with actual testing them. I absolutely need to get a 3D printer and get started. I have plenty of room to do both wind and solar I was previously convinced wind was outside my grasp, but not anymore ❤
Appreciate taking your time to show this process Thank you
Very good, indeed! Thanks Rob. Waiting for the next fascinating videos.
Fascinating Mr. Smith! It looks cool, too!
You've always been a great whistler
Awesome build if you put 1 on each side of the magnets disk and spin the magnets turn 1 of the coils 11 degrees out of sink with the other you should have a very clean output. might be worth giving it a try . Another great video Robert cheers mate.
I really think I'd like to try and make one of these. I totally agree with what you said about the benefits being dependent on what it is you are trying to achieve rather than seeking an absolute superior design!
Correct and good explanation of where and why to wind the coil in this spacing and angle based on the magnet size and not just any angle or location of without a logical spacing.
Thanks again for the teachings, very enlightening. Cheers mate!
This brings me back to my school years. My physics teacher made me wind all kinds of coils for loosing a bet or discussion and sometimes as an alternative punishment for being a bit of a prick. Good times. He’s still my favourite teacher.
This channel is strangely addictive I love it. This one reminds me of making xmas wreaths. If only we knew the physics country women would (and do) power the world!!
Nice! Thank you Robert.
I'm finding this series fascinating. I've been toying with the idea of building and winding my own generator for a long time and I think this has finally incentivised me to do so. One project I have wanted to do for a while is to build a generator with some VERY strong HDD magnets I salvaged from very old SCSI drives many years ago. The problem (as I understand it) is that the poles are not oriented correctly. The poles are at the edges instead of at the top and bottom so they would essentially cancel each other out as they pass by the coils. I've been thinking that there must be a way to wind the coils to not only eliminate this issue but actually take advantage of it but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. Not my area of expertise.
If you heat the magnets above a certain temperature they'll loose their magnetization 'permanently'.
It is then possible to re-magnetize them by putting the magnet inside a coil and applying a large current/magnetic field - any way you'd like.
(It is not easy to do, it requires very large voltage and currents - so don't do it if you aren't sure what you're doing)
There is videos here on UA-cam on how magnet producers magnetize their magnets - it's the same process. Good luck either way!
@@EgonSorensen I think I've seen that video or at least one that shows the same principles but that goes far beyond what I could do at home. I was thinking of a dual coil setup with one on the outside and one on the inside and the magnets in the middle. The N pole of the magnet would pass the outer coil at the same time as the S pole would pass by the inner coil. The way it operates in my head tells me it should work but how they'd be wired together so that the voltages "sync up" instead of cancelling each other out is where I'm stuck. And TBH I would prefer the challenge of making it work with the parts I have as-is instead of modifying them.
@@Enjoymentboy Not sure I understand correctly but if they are in sync but opposite, just reverse the polarity of one of the coils?
@@stormatron6184 My apologies for not describing very well. The magnets are the typical radius style (ie 6 of them set side to side will form a perfect circle) with the poles at the edges instead of the top and bottom faces. I have been told on a few occasions that this is why they will not work. In my head I can see two sets of coils with one on each side of the magnets with the magnets forming a ring. The magnet ring would be mounted on a shaft and would be the only part to move and would effect both coils simultaneously. I am NOT engineer so what I see in my head is likely not possible, or at best not efficient enough to be workable. BUT...I was recently gifted a 3D printer and I'm slowly learning a CAD program so with luck I'll be able to start producing parts to see if I can get the image out of my head and onto the work bench. I am 99% certain I can build the structure and such but it's the coil winding and wiring that has me stumped. Perhaps I need to get it to the point where I actually need to wind coils so I can then see exactly how everything moves in relation to each other to tell just what I have to do.
Magnetic antennas for vehicles use a metal shield to focus the field into a tightly focused area. Maybe you could use that somehow to modify the "shape" or path of the field?
thats great, this is how ive been doing my litz wire for years. makes great matched load windings too, within limits.
Wow! Cool artistic whistling!
wow .. this man is legend .. i love his videos .. so much info ,,. and trhe enthusiasm hahaha i love it. Thank you for all your work and sharing wid us sir.
Ty!
Wow. Seems to be a great channel. There is insufficient time to satisfy all my curiosity. 3 minutes in, I'm seeing an exemplary presentation by a skilled teacher. I don't expect to be back, but I wish the best to the channel!
Educational as always, thx for sharing this, thx for uploading,
Also don't forget not to get burnout and pace yourself if truly needed!
Hi Rob Sir this came much in time I am working with a windmill project these days, will share images soon 🙏🏻🙏🏻
This is the first time I've seen your program, I've been looking at many that are producing 220 vAC power. Bur the star winging gave me an idea, the suggestion I have is if the Magnets were made in the shape of the star windings, then they would have the star windings at the correct orientation to the magnetic force 100%of the time. Then I there was another star winding on the same shaft using the other pole of the magnet there would be in opposite phase. Use one of the phases to drive the electric motor to turn the generator and the other phase to use to operate other machines and lighting. I haven't looked at how magnets are produced but they come in various shapes so how much a star winding would cost an of course demand.
This is so cool to me. I am curious how this would compare to a geared "stepper" wind generator.
Maybe after you turn this into a generator, you could:
A) grab one of the generators you made with a stepper motor.
B) gear it, so that it takes an equal amount of force to spin as the Faulhaber coil generator (so both work in low wind speed).
C) see how they perform under equal conditions.
I feel you would have to create a 2-phase Faulhaber coil (or only hook up half the stepper motor) to get accurate comparisons.. But I consider you the professional here.
Thanks again for the great content! And even more teaching us how to make Litz wire. I have been spending WAAAY too much time on my toroidal transformers..
Great info as usual. I appreciate the education kind sir.
Beautiful winding
Good stuff 👍
Thank you very mush.. that was wonderful explanation
Delightful Sir!
Very cool...Thank You !!!
Amazing! Thank you!
Spinning like billy oh huh? 🤔😅 And thank you again for another wonderful english euphemistic expression to add to my vocabulary. Lol
Thanks for the rundown.
As some others have alluded, changing the geometry of the permanent magnets can provide an excellent trade off for additional torque, both with angles and overall sizes (reduced distance between poles, more poles per cycle, lower kV [for simplicity], higher relative torque vs the opposite). One should also consider, assuming this is an academic conversation, that changes in the current geometry must also change the thrust geometry, so in instances like this demonstration (and as another user has pointed out about power tool stator geometry that use FB coils), one may potentially lose more than they gain to friction without a carefully tuned alignment. Again, this is almost purely academic, food for thought, makes hardly any (if any at all) difference in concept demonstration and learning, but it can make a fair difference in industrial or infrastructural scales. I suppose the real question... Really is whether or not a given design in the real world can maintain electrical, mechanical, and thermodynamic efficiency above the cost of copper saved. The amount of motors I've repaired, handled, I have definitely seen a fair bit of poor, low budget executions that still work, and that's sometimes frustrating because the real cost to do it right for a given application (better?) Is about the same. It just doesn't make sense to me as a reasonable corner to cut, circumstantially on a precision motor; RM-S's explanation enforces this, IMO.
Thank you again, another great video. Cheers from across the pond.
Keep up the good work mate ;)
master of excellence.
Awesome!
That makes a rather pretty winding. It will be interesting to see how it performs.
You're a STAR.
Too late for Christmas, but they would have made great halos (don't fret, just winding you up 😁)
Lol
I love your channel
Patience is a virtue😄
Im fascinated with coils and antennas and I am amazed by the sounds of my handmade AM radios as I tune the channel
Thank you. 👍👍🐝🌞
Awesome 👏
1) what about angling the magnets also, either with it opposite the copper?
2) what about making a longer axel on it and putting two coil types one to pick up the low wind and one to pick up the higher wind?
3) advantage/disadvantage of one phase vs three? Why not more than three if three is better than one?
Zigzags are the most efficient shape for UHF TV/radio antennas, too. I’ve built several designs, and I get the best gain with them.
If you make the core from a water or alcohol soluble material you could remove the center . This will make the coil thinner and that allows for thinner magnets. I have a design like this that uses three windings one for each phase.
Nice job explaining basic electrical phenomenon. Thank you.
As a master electrician for over 45 years I have been exposed to many different electrical projects.
I majored in chemistry and received my master electricians license in the 90s .
You have presented a new idea with motors and magnetism I salute you.And I will have many sleepless nights understanding what you have described.
Post script: I am working on a DC /AC motor based on similar principles . LOL like for the last 45 years.! LOL
This is an extremely common star delta been around for a century or more
@@funnycatvideos5490 Unfortunately I’ve only been around for 67 years lol
Hint by obtaining fine copper, ( Cu2So4 + Fe203) creating aluminum channels in the rotor and exciting the copper in oil in those tubes were the Centrifugal force creates a flow, etc. some luck but time is short.
"headphone lead" is a great soure of HF-Litz wire for small projects
Litz wire is used in the tone arm of record players. It's normally in higher end decks.
I am wondering how much increase in the electrical efficiency you will get with the Litz wire Robert. I am just amazed with all the amount of experimentation that is happening these days some has not found a super way of super efficiency.
Look forward to see what you will come up next Sir. Good day too. vf
That Liz wire was sold in comerce for radiotecnics named antena wire very useful for GALENA RADIOS in the pastime.
For the central piece I think I'd go with sandwiching the coil disk with two more acrylic or whatever disks. 1. protects the coils from accidental touches to the stator/rotor (and damaging the coating), 2. more stable central axis when it's threaded through 2 points further from each other, 3. easier access to the coils should they require maintenance (compared to glueing the central disk in), 4. completely rules out the need to know the inner diameter (or outer, for that matter), 5. keeps the coils compressed and in shape at all times, and prevents winding slips on the acrylic disk (which could damage the coating).
Mechanical engineer for an Aerospace company that makes generators. And designed PM and switch reluctance machines. That plastic disc significantly decreases fielded strength. Heat up the coil to melt the disc and then extrude the plastic through the coil to remove its thickness from the air gap.
A very long armature would also put more flux cutting conductors in the field, and at 90°. Putting such an armature inside of the wind spiral would also serve to multipurpose the volume.
Good, 100% agree! Thank you:o)) Try a "Star Coil" may be bifilar! Cheers, great video
Coreless motors/generators would be an interetsing topic for me as it implies I could 3D print the housing/stator assembly and have it all be just PETG, the magnets and some copper
DYI Litz caution: Damaging the insulation while twisting..
Excellent Robert Murry Smith, what great initials you have. RMS. I'll be very interested to see your Generator with the Faulhaber coil fixed and rotating magnets. And very interested in what Wire AGW and turns etc you use and what power of Magnets you use. You've given me loads of enthusiasm to DIY rather than anything bought of the shelf.
After this Great Series maybe DIY coil tester like motor shops use and I don't mean an ohm meter or Megger.
There were some other comments asking about how versatile this setup could be for places with varying wind speeds. I had an idea that I thought could make a really fun project, but I am not quite sure how it could be completed.
The basic thought is this... Construct a Faulhaber generator with 3-6 phases, then dictate a way (without electronics) to open and close the circuit to each phase depending on wind speed (turbine RPM).
In low wind speeds, only one phase would be online. As the wind got faster and the turbine sped up, it would hit an RPM threshold and close the circuit to phase 2; effectively increasing the load and slowing the turbine. Vice versa if it slowed down to a certain threshold it would open said circuit.
In theory, you should be able to scale the number of phases up or down for any amount of wind correct? Running 10 phases in 150kph winds, I GOT YOU ;p
Centrifugal switch
They are found in lots of washing machine motors
Change the springs for different speeds
The other option would be to vary the field strength.
Looks nice, super nice. Could it be made reversible i.e. spin the copper at some speeds and spin the magnets at other speeds?
With more phases you get less ripple , if you rotate the coils and your diode array the diodes can be arranged so that while spinning they get air cooling , such an arrangement can have output through sliprings with multiple brushes on each ring to minimize electrical noise that can be minimized with small capacitors and because of the low ripple smaller filters ( my favorite being a voltage follower set to a voltage below the ripple ( completely eliminating power ripple capacitor ) ) to no filters are necessary for direct utilization .
This man developed the process of whacking a gallium arsenide semiconductor with a block of wood to create the first UAP de-cloaking sensors.
I have a bunch of the Maxon DC motors. They are insane for response n servo applications. With no iron in the winding, the start, stop, and position response is really quick with good torque and very little change in torque for the current in the rotation. It is as close to a rotary voice coil drive as possible to get in a motor. Older motors unfortunately get clogged up with carbon from the brushes as most are sealed for clean applications, so the dust is trapped inside leading to the eventual failure. Similar tech is now using AC permanent magnet motors for servo application in robotics.
This is nice Rob! Can you also show how to make a radial flux coreless stator? Im fascinated by slotless/coreless winding with the faulhaber pattern!
OMG Rob you made Star Gate...😃! Is Earth going to get attached by Aliens now 😂! Plz say yes.
Very interesting RMS , I am looking forward to seeing how options in phases / pole count can affect horsepower / torque outcomes for EV use.
There are many successful pancake style axial flux motors being developed recently . :) woohoo
great!
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I may be getting hold of an old car engine soon, and I had the crazy idea to turn it into an inverter generator. I'm not sure how, but I think I'd need to come up with some sort of governor so the engine can idle low, but get some extra fuel when more power draw is placed on the generator. I'm also thinking of replacing the stock alternator with a more standard generator/motor since car alternators aren't very efficient. This would be a "just for fun" project. I wouldn't expect a machine that's as good as store-bought, but as the engine would be free, I suspect it may be slightly cheaper. Depending on the cost of the generator/motor and inverter.
Anyway, I love all this DIY stuff. I wish I had enough wind to make wind generators worth while, but it's just too calm here, except for wind storms. Good for painting outdoors though. :)
I think you may want to keep the alternator to charge your starter battery.
Dollar store earbuds are a great source for extremely fine litz wire. Just skin the cord. I was using individual strands for repairing pcb traces.
Wicked!
Cool
you need to make the spindle of ramsbreath attached to the ferroloc wound in such a way, introduce a lode stone at certain points around your spindle mounted on a shaft.
Seems like you got a cool coil design to show us every day. Are you doing research and experimentation with a specific goal in mind? You seem very fixated on axial-flux lately and that is great because I have the same need for a cheap / diy generator for VAWTs.
Cool, after you make this a generator it would be cool to see how you run it as a motor. Could you control it with off the shelf ebike components?
Fascinating! Never saw a Faulhaber winding before! How would it perform against a rewired F&P washer motor?
Now I know why Faulhaber moved their production to India. Winding coils like that must be quite costly! I can't imagine the machine that they would need to do that!
To think one of those roles of copper drums he has is thousands of dollars. And this star pattern designs which increase voltages is giving me some insights into Ancient Star Forts found around the world. Shape modulates voltage and energy flow and them Star Forts might actually have been built as some kind of giant Generator.
👍👍
A lot of people don't realize flywheel mass in a wind turbine is less desirable. Spinning a coil under a load pose a challenge in keeping it secured to the rotor when experencing back torque, but the wind turbine will be operating more efficently in varying wind.
THE SUPERETHERODINE RADIOS OR WIRELESS USED THAT TIPE OF COIL IN THE STAGES OF INTERMEDIARY FREQUENCIES in a range OF 275 Kc tô 475 Kc AND it was named "Honey Comb" coil in order tô dimmnish the counter motor electro force the Lenz Law in these frequencies.
If the copper is at an angle to he rotational direction, say at 45 deg, the usable length will be sqrt(2) times the length, so that 41% is wasted. This amount may as well be positioned in the overhang position( end windings) wit the wires straight. You cannot rally win. Thank you.
Patience and attention is required.
This may sound crazy but I thought of a copper/ ferrofluid in a flat tube as the conductor/ coolant all in one, mabe the flow would increase mag field or cancel it depending on polarity just a thought 🤔 I had this idea years ago and haven't had time to experiment with it
Can you go into how to align the magnets to the coils so that you make the best use of the magnets without working against yourself? (generation wise)
My Resmed Airsesne 10 cpap machine has a ~ 3cm diameter coil wound like this and 3phase.
Can you rotate the magnet to get closer to perpendicular to the wire?
Perhaps reshape the magnets more pie shaped parallelogram?
Spent a large part of my adult life working on electric motors, up to 6000 horsepower, they tend to dim the lights on the entire grid when starting . Have had many an adventure, survived enough to retire. I'll have to watch this over to determine a use for your motor concept. Look forward to learning new concepts . The motors I deal with now are mostly on little flying things, that are being slowly outlawed. Why they are worried about the threat of small flying things now but ignored a German saboteur, who worked just down the road, kinda confuses me. Heck as a young man I shipped many a large black airplane kit to embassies, American only, now 50 years latter they are dangerous ... and China makes all the parts , lol .
I understand that the different windings have advantages, but the common windings on the average motor are many times easier, and quicker to make, are cheaper, and the extra weight doesn't affect the power used or generated. I do find the last 2 videos interesting, and informative.
we haven't even begun to use
Superfluids.
One of the traadeoffs not mentioned is about what's needed when spinning the coil. A pair of slip rings. And a pair of brushes for said slip ring. Both parts add complexity and maintenance. Nothing at all wrong with that, but tradeoffs. Always tradeoffs.
10:51 Rob did mention it. :-)
😊