AVRO ARROW VS MIG-31 (PART 2)
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- AVRO ARROW VS MIG-31
(Series Link - • AVRO ARROW vs F 35 & F 18 )
NOTE: This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author’s imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.
Loving the series. Although im not Canadian i feel sorry for the end of the arrow and appreciate all your effort in telling the story. By the way love the piano!
Thank you Felipe...The really good piano was my uncle who passed last year and was recored in a studio. Everything else is mine recorded on my IPAD in my living room. I write the arrangements as required and record them. regards....Virtual
I am eagerly awaiting the next installment. Appreciate all the work you have put into this.
My Dad worked on the ENGINES i saw the ARROW FLY when i was a kid SHE WAS BEAUTIFUL. WE SHOULD STOP DREAMING AND BUILD MARK FOUR NOW
I’m envious. I would have loved to see her fly.
@@Sherwoody She would look very similar to the great gift Virtual has given us!
That's not how the world works. Canada doesn't even have an aerospace industry anymore. You think Bombardier could build a Mk. 4? They can't even build a street car.
@@whiteprivilege4469 Bombardier can't be allowed within 1000 miles of any Arrow reboot
I am following the series from the beginning, and I love it!. I became fonded of the Arrow, and I have a miniature and a picture of it in my office. I am not related to the aerospace industry, but I'm a fan of flying and aircraft, and when I read about the Arrow sad story, I fell in love with it. Keep going and I share your dream of an Arrow comeback. Regards.
When I first started working at CBC Radio in 1975 I was teamed with a former Transmitter Technician who was re-assigned to the FM Radio Booth in Vancouver. Over time we became friends and over coffee and lunch breaks we would talk about our families and experiences pre-CBC. After a time he started talking about his youthful days working on the Arrow Project. The pride he felt when she took off on her test flights and the potential of the aircraft. The anger he still felt towards the cancellation and destruction of the prototypes and all the die-casting that had been completed. The Arrow was ready to be built in large numbers when the project was Diefen-cancelled and destroyed. With the cancellation penalties paid out by the government over 70 Arrows could have been completed and flight ready for use by the RCAF. "Rusty" has passed now but I know he would have loved to view this series and would probably have written to you about his remembrances of The Avro Arrow. Just as I'm sure he did with his Air Cadets of the Arrow Squadron with which he was involved for years.
Hi Chris....Thank you very much for the comment.....made my day. regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons Can you add some Dief face pics to a couple of our missiles, as a gift to the Russkies? Maybe saving some Americans. Dief was of little use to Canada. We may as well get some you out of him! Besides, I think RL 206 would like that. (I know it is only an animation, but........)
Hi PM. How are things? Is this the first time you have seen this video, it has been out for a while. I have not begun the next Episode yet, so there may be time for the Dief thing. My wife and I bought a home in the country and it is taking up all my time getting it the way we want it. I will likely start the next episode when the snow starts to fly. Thanks for the comments. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons I've been a follower since the beginning but have changed my email address so it probably appear as if I've just started watching. I felt the time was right to mention my CBC link to the Arrow. Another link is when I was young my father was in the Navy and we travelled from Victoria BC to Halifax by trailer. A fragmented memory was my dad taking me in our old Plymouth outside of an air field during the trip and the sound of a jet engine revving and taking off. He said something about that Jet was going to change everything. About half-a-year later in Halifax he came home grumbling about how incompetent Diefenbaker was and that he had sold out Canada. He never talked about the Arrow again in his life.
@@Virtualenvirons I am coping. Yes, this is the 3nd or 32rd time I watch. Who would not want to watch several times?
Paint it with anti reflective flat black paint and put a beautiful big Red Maple leaf on the trail w/ RL 206 in red. Make it a nasty MK 3! Love your work, keep it up. Can’t wait for the next episode!
Good idea, only I’d go with ghost grey.
So, can we see a fleet of Arrows in the future stories, or is this going to remain a lone wolf? A full quiver of Arrows, so to speak?
I was always hoping RL-202 made it to England as a few items turned up there.
Continues to bring tears to my boomer eyes with what might have been.
Same Here. Whne She takes off I always say, Go Baby! GO!
It’s big. It’s fast. It’s gonna kick some ass.
I like that. I might use that in one of the next episodes if you don't mind. regards.....Virtual
Virtualenvirons no problem. I love your work.
BTW, when I was growing up, I had a neighbor who worked at Orenda as a machinist. He told me when they first started testing the Iroquois they were as excited as a bunch of school kids. He was one of the many who lost their jobs and their family struggled for a while until he relocated and found another job.
@@Virtualenvirons I too would love to see that!
(Russian) General, what is your new toy?
RL It’s big. It’s fast. It’s gonna kick some ass.
(Russian) Oh, oh!
@@Sherwoody Thanks for a free line of dialogue!
HI Woody. I just released the Trailer for Ep. 9 on my channel. Watch it until the end and check the credits....regards....Virtual
Eagerly waiting for the next episode...👍
Keep up the good work, love the series! Can’t wait for the next episode!
thanks for the early drop made my weekend
That was a lot of work to create this. I appreciate your attention to details. Great job! I have a picture of me standing with what’s left of an Arrow fuselage and an Iroquois engine at the Ottawa aeronautical museum hanging in my office.
Back in the fifties my family lived in what was then New Toronto and regularly we would see these planes flying at incredibly high speeds across our skies breaking the sound barrier at regular intervals. They were a magnificent aircraft to see especially knowing that every day my dad commuted to Malton to do his little part of constructing this ground breaking creative machine. Canada has certainly regressed since those days, Malton has zero aircraft manufacturing, in fact, our country has very little manufacturing any more. The fifties was a great time to be a Canadian.
hey the 60s and 70s were pretty good too. 80s and on race to the bottom, sadly.
You always do such a fantastic job with these videos bro 👍
thank you Viper6...regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons Awesome "AF". If only the CBC had brains!
Fantastic work on the videos, I truly enjoy them. Inspirational. Ok canucks lets build a Mark 4. (or maybe we did already...?)
As a pilot that had my first flight at Trenton(I was an air cadet then 758 Argus) then carried on to get a PPL at Borden, continued training to be a test pilot in small experimental aircraft.
The AVRO ARROW has always lived in my dreams and always will. It deserves to fly the skies again with the elegance of its design and conviction of ethereal beauty.
At some point AVRO aircraft built a few aluminium boat hulls. I have a 43' boat built by AVRO aircraft in 1962. It still sails the great lakes today. Their construction techniques are a veritable work of art. Again Awesome videos @Virtualenvirons!
HI Jorge....Thanks for both your comments. The Royal Iroquois wind....that is one I have not heard and I have heard quite a few stories on this forum. I have just begun working on Ep. 9, but am also in a new home in the country and we are still getting settled, I expect I will have something ready by Christmas.......A Christmas special perhaps. Regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons Looking forward to the next video. A country setting, very nice. Congratulations.
As for the Royal Iroquois wind...I made that up today after watching the video. It was an amateur attempt at a very short storey, or just something I would make up for my kids when camping.
@@Virtualenvirons T H A N K S! I am going blind. (Long Story) I hope my eyes last long enough to see that! You relive by resulting depression wonderfully. And the music rocks as usual.
Although I don't remember who they other Cadets were I do remember 758 Argus. I loved Camp Borden. was a very good year!
A chubby kid dark hair think his name was Dennis.
Good work. Thanks for your great work. From Chihuahua Chihuahua Mexico.Can’t wait for the next episode!
Hi Javier. Thanks for the comment. Nice to hear from Chihuahua Chihuahua....regards.....Virtual
That would become an effective interdictor ... !
If you paired her with the TSR-2 they’d be unstoppable.
Great vid, Can't wait for ep 9. Thanks.
OMG!!!!.I want more please!!!!
2nd the Motion!
Loved seeing this video drop early. Have posted Episode 7 to the 'Greatest planes that never were' Facebook page so people can pick up on the new story, the reaction has been somewhat heated! Keep up the great work
I found the Facebook Page. Good stuff, but if you want to post this go ahead.. At the time, the F-4 would have been considered a contemporary of the Arrow, but not as advanced technologically, but able to perform the mission. The F-108 Rapier never left Plywood stage and would have been a very fat Arrow. Its weight would have been over a hundred thousand pounds. To sum it all up, there was nothing as Advanced as the Arrow Mark 2 in 1959. The speed specs posted for the Arrow are Based on the Mark 1 with test engines not fully opened up. The Arrow had fly-by-wire, 4000 psi Hydraulic system, and engine with twice the power of anything else, and inherent instability in the y-axis. All this not seen on American fighters until twenty years later. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons just popped your comment up there. Await the fireworks!
Hi Cliff....If you start getting a lot of questions that you can't field, feel free to ask or send them here. I will write a response. regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons just had this one. This fella has been bashing Arrow on every thread on the FB page More important is that all the "specs" for the Mk2 were /provisional/, and entirely dependent on factors completely outside Avro's control. The Iroquois, on which so much of the Mk.2's intended performance depended, was in real trouble development-wise in 1958-59. The engine was unreliable and prone to catastrophic failure, rarely running more than 40 hours without a major incident. Pilots who had flown the B-47 testbed reported serious vibration issues along with the aforementioned failures and a tremendous thirst for fuel; it's doubtful that the engine would have been ready in time for the 25206's first flight anyway, also casting doubt on the projected 1962 in-service date.
As to the Iroquois having "twice the power", well, that's just not even close to being true. The Iroquois was intended to have just over 19,000 lb thrust dry, 25,600 lb thrust in reheat. The P&W J75 engine that the Arrow Mk.1 flew with provided around 14,500 lbs of thrust dry, 26,500 lbs thrust in reheat -- more than the Iroquois in afterburner. It's very likely the "production" Mk2 would have had to fly with the J75 anyway, thus negating any supposed advantage the Iroquois would have given.
So by late 1958 the writing was on the wall as far as the RCAF was concerned, no matter how much Avro management tried to spin it. The Arrow was /going/ to be of inferior spec to other available options and vastly more expensive per plane, and this in a changing world where Sandys' White Paper was looked at with nodding agreement everywhere from the Pentagon to the Kremlin in those pre-Vietnam days. Maybe the day of the manned interceptor /had/ passed, thought RCAF general staff, and if so are we going to be saddled with a weak link?
Just to nip one other conspiracy in the bud, the idea that the US government tried to kill the Arrow is ludicrous, given the atmosphere of the time. If there had been serious American opposition to the Arrow, a replacement proposal would have been Johnny-on-the-spot after Black Friday, not taking another two years to come to fruition. In fact, ADC Command in the US was quite nervous about the whole program, as the failure of the Arrow would have left a huge gap in NORAD, which it did in the event. The RCAF gave several reasons why the Arrow was becoming unacceptable, and when the topic of price-per-airframe came up the US floated the idea of paying for a couple of wings' worth via MAP funds over and above what the RCAF required -- likely these would have been sent to the UK, since the UK government had cancelled the Thin Wing Javelin in favour of Arrow before the White Paper was tabled -- hoping to drive the price down. The US was already at production capacity for combat aircraft and really didn't have the extra room needed to fill Canadian orders until US squadrons were full. This is why it took until 1961 to get Voodoos to the RCAF; the Voodoos we got were low-time ex USAF aircraft that had been replaced by F-106s in squadrons.
Hi Cliff. I prepared a rebuttal, but when I paste it in, UA-cam will not accept it. You may have received a number of emails from this. I will enter it manually tomorrow....regards...Virtual
The film-noir touch can't wait for the Russian spy revelation, nice tunes very entertaining sequences. I'll keep following and recommend.
Hi Airtobs....Thanks for the comment.....regards....Virtual
Gentlemen , I just love this series of yours, and I happen to be a retired aerospace engineer(BS Physics) and a medical doctor and I am very impressed with your attention to "the math" or the respect for the rules of physics (I'll be the first one to admit that the Bachelors Degree in Physics was an easy 3 times as hard to learn as the Doctorate in Medicine). I would be glad to provide details when or if you need any physics help or medical factoids for that matter. I used to work at the NASA-JSC before I joined my dad in the practice of medicine (Another long story!) .............
BUT the one curiosity I have for you is a little off subject. The music is wonderfully done, and it made me search for the melodies and download them, but what has eluded me is that "Call to Battle" type theme usually when the Arrow is about to go off on a "strike-back" and it starts off quietly with a couple of good thumps from something like a kettle drum and the song builds up as the Arrow starts a powerful climb and builds up to a beautiful crescendo ........ Would you be so kind as to tell me what the name of that song is and could you play or post the FULL song so I can add it to my list of favorites ?! .....I would be more than grateful , sincerely David , living in Houston, TX but always a Toronto Canadian at heart and a fellow 'Arrow-head'
Hello David. Thank you very much for the comment. Makes my day. I need to explain the music. The piece you are looking for is part of a free program on the Macintosh computer. I-Movie comes free on a Mac. There are several pieces of music attached to what they call "Trailers". I just separated them and use them where I want. The really good piano was played by my uncle and recorded professionally He past away last year. He was a concert pianist. I write the other arrangements and play/record them on my iPad, so the quality is not that good. The piece you are looking for is simply called "Narrative" in the I-movie themes. The credits list the others.
Thank you for your offer to help, very kind, there are so many that wish this series was true, but it is only fictional. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons Thankyou for your prompt reply. It may be a little late, but my sincere condolences on the passing of your uncle. I'm sure you and your family and friends loved him very much and miss him dearly, may he rest easy. I can at least say he was a great piano player..............
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On the song or partial song , I don't own any Apple/Mac products, iPhones or Macs just 3 homemade AMD compatible "most bang for the buck" desk-top computers each running Windows 10 Pro , lots of hard disk drive space totalling about 23TB(internal and external) and about 3TB of SSD (internal and external), lots of RAM running modern but modest CPU's from 2GHz to 3GHz to 4GHz, the first 2 running with modest graphics cards and the on board graphics on the most modern one. These are not "Race computers" but I designed them to be reliable , flexible and for the purpose of storing lots of information and also for entertainment (each computer has 3 screens ranging from 24" to 26" to 27" LCD or LED at 10 cents on the dollar from Goodwill) It took me about 4 years to accumulate all my 3 computers with great used accessories. (It reminds me of how much modern electronic equipment you could fit into an old fashioned large sized modernized Arrow !)
I'll try to look for that song and see if I can download it, if not, maybe you can send it to me, sincerely , David
HI David. I don't really have a way to send it, but there apparently is a way to download UA-cam movies, I have never looked. If you can find it, then download the movie and you will have the music. regards...Virtual
Now I wait again! Awesome video as always!
These videos are adorable, but couldn't you have added a bubble canopy?
Whatever you do, don't fly this bird over the boys fishing on the lake. It will not only flip their boat over, but it will also suck it out of the water, and halfway across Canada, while opening their beer bottles as well! If you fly this over your house, slow down!
I very much enjoy your work. I am waiting for the next episode. Thus far you have followed the good vs. evil and good wins. The Arrow may have undergone many trials in its early life, but overcoming evil will be its crowning triumph.
Hi Jim, How true and well said. There is a short video on my channel explaining when the next video will appear. Briefly, my wife and I moved to the country after the last Episode was released. We bought a home on the water to get away from the plague that is ravaging the world. We have been busy making renovations, etc, so I have not yet begun the next episode, but will begin soon. Thank you so much for watching the series. regards.....Virtual
Wow! Just amazing.
you meant putting in a modern fly by wire system that needs over 90% less space, so that a rotary cannon be put in.
Your uncle was a piano genius. And, we,, you are not so bad yourself! Look fwd to the music uploads. When the deep dark clouds of my depression close in like a dozen migs, the music of RFl-206, comes to my rescue, like a flight of Arrows.
The story: Superb. Both Roddenberry ad Lucas would be jealous. Great Dialog. AWESOME graphics! Like everyone else, I can hardly wait for the next part.
With my oncoming blindness, watching this (REQUIRED viewing!) as almost an act of love. Nose stuck to the monitor. (My eyes are so bad, they rival Deif's vision of Canada in paucity!) I WILL find a way to finance a new monitor in 2021. I watched over and over. Rewinding to see the most beautiful flying machine evvvver fly and fly and fly again, even if it is sadly only in our imaginations. I listened to the music (WOW!) over an over!9 I rewound to catch the text. A couple of words at a time. Hence my apologies for taking so long to tell you how wonderful it all was.
How can we all thank you enough for your labours? B R A V O!
Please forgive typos and punctuation. I type at a few words a minute now. And I find it hard to catch the bugs.
SHARING!
Hi P.M. What a wonderful comment. I am saddened to hear this story of my most ardent follower is losing his sight. I am glad you mentioned that. Perhaps I can make things clearer on the next episode. Having said that, I have not really begun to work on it yet. My wife and I bought a new home in the country to get away from the current plague that is ravaging the world. We have only been here a few months and we are making changes that keep me busy. One things settle, I will start working on Ep. 9. regards...Virtual
Robin Sipe…nice touch.
Have to send a message from the West coast. Everyone wanted this to fly.
You are up early or....late night.....regards....Virtual
I think the impressiveness may be enough to start posting updates in your not-yet posted community.
Huge smiles from this old driver. I know a 31 Colonel - how about Russian sub titles.
Hi James....Thanks for watching, glad you liked it. I have a really tough time as it is with the english....regards...Virtual
Very nice
nice art work. wtg to the dev work.
Well done, bravo zulu
Just a question, did you take agent Jay's permission?
Yes, both Jay and Robin Sipe were in on this. regards....Virtual
Sooooo where are the other four? God I would love to see them!
Wouldn't we all. regards....Virtual
Pretty sure the arrow would not keep uo in dog fight in anything made after the 2000 but might have a chance with thrust retiring tech abd speed but would be a great inter enter abs strategic strick bomber not fight
Does JayZ know about it lol?
Hi Daniel....Yes, both him and Robin were in on it. BTW, there is a new Arrow Channel. There is a link in the video to it....regards.....Virtual
Arrow vs Death Star!
Do you have an update on the next episode drop waiting kind of patiently.
Hi Chris. There is a short post on my channel. It is called Arrow Fortress and explains a few things.. Briefly, after I released Ep. 8, my wife and I bought a new home in the country to avoid the plague that is ravaging the world; The new home has kept us very busy getting it the way we want it. So, I have not begun to work on Ep. 9 and probably won't until the snow flies. I would not expect anything until after New Years. I hate to disappoint people, but Covid affects everyone. Stay safe and thank you so very much for watching the series....regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons your series brings me great joy, but Family and safety com first above all else Stay safe.
Diefenbaker was a sell-out!
And not too bright. Easily fooled. He was no good for Canada. We could paint his face on a few missiles, and at least get some use out of him!
AT this time how many other Pollyticians have sold Canada out!!?? Disgusting!!!!!!!!! Time to take back our country!
@@edwardcarberry1095 Hear, Hear! And which ones have not???
He was an old country boy who did not really understand tech.. Jets was out side of his understanding. I think he preferred the horse and buggy days.
@@PierreaSweedieCat All of the Corrupt Pollyticians have to be exposed and taken to court! We could start with the Chipped one!
The Arrow was a good piece of kit in its time & for the role it was designed for.
But to compare the Arrow to a Mig is absurd. The Arrow was designed as a bomber interceptor. Its far too big for dogfighting
HI Gord, The Mig-31 is about the same size physically as an Arrow. Narrower wing span making it less agile than an Arrow at Altitude, where they were both designed to fight. Its G limit is slightly less than an Arrow and lower thrust to weight than an Arrow with an Iroquois engine.
The Newest version of the Mig-31 may have fly-by-wire now like the Arrow, but not the first ones. Also the Arrow was designed in Inherent instability giving it an instantaneous turn rate. Not seen until the F-16.
The Mig-31 is a good jet designed to travers Russia at high speed and knock out Bombers only. The Arrows main role was Bomber interdiction, but was capable of much more. For example, it was designed to have Ground Mapping Radar for the strike role. regards....Virtual
When is the next episode coming out?
HI Richard. thank you for asking. There is a short video on my channel Called 'Arrow Fortress". It will explain the delay in the next episodes. Briefly, my wife and I have moved. Thank you so much for watching. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons
Thanks for all you do! We look forward to the next installment!
Take care,
Rick
When is part 3 coming?
Hi LA3CLA....There is a short video on my channel explaining the delay. I have just begun to work on the next Episode. Expect mid Mar. regards......Virtual
Look@@Virtualenvirons , I knew you were hiding something. First you tell all y'all of us you started work on the ninth episode, and then you tell us you moved to a new house because of the COVID, but then you tell us you wouldn't restart (or reSUME) work until "the snow flies".
That is all true and that is what has happened. I literally started working on Ep 9 during a brief snow squall in late November. I am well into it and I really like this episode. The battle scenes are epic. Look for an mid Mar. release. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons did you RESUME? If so i will be relieved.
Duuuuuu... du-du-duuuu-duuu-duuu-duuuu---du-du-duuuu-Duuu-duuuu-, du-du-duuuu-du-du-du...du-du-du-...
nooooo whens the next episode lol
Hi Dana. Probably not until Christmas. My wife and I moved out to the country and that has taken up a lot of time. Glad you are enjoying the series regards....Virtual
there can be no doubt that this is horseshit, the Kusnetzov was there without a tug!!
Where is part Three?
Hi Rod....Part 3 is still in it's infancy. I have not worked out the storyboard yet. Probably November....thanks for watching......regards....Virtual
Virtualenvirons I got confused because there was a part 4 but no 3. Thanks for the reply.