The Best Sponge Thickness for Long Pimple Rubbers
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- Опубліковано 9 лис 2024
- "How does the sponge thickness influences the game of the defensive player?" - an interesting question we did not have an answer for.
In this video we have tested Grass D.Tecs rubber with different sponge thicknesses on the defensive blade.
Here are our thoughts and impressions from the perspective of the chopper and his opponent.
We hope you like it!
Blade:
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Long pimple rubber:
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Forehand rubber:
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![Mastering Long Pimple Control: 4 Essential Training Drills | Sebastian Sauer [Table Tennis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hI5Gb4KgDCM/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi guys! I had a luck to meet you at Paris Olympics and it was a great pleasure! We need more reviews from you on a monthly or weekly basis 😀Good luck to tt11 team 🏓
This was a very informative video. I never knew that sponge thickness on long pips could cause such significant differences for both players! I also watch your videos to see what good form looks like, because to my inexperience, it looks really good.
Totally agree with Sergei, the sound of the Donic blade with OX is the best.
Amazing comparison video, excellent work to all TT11 team 👍
Great to see you guys branch out to other types of rubbers. While these are very rare at the world ranking, they are still quite common everywhere else, so it's great that devote some time to them and showcase the differences
Great video on comparison on long pimple rubbers. Lots of love from India and Indian table tennis community❤🏓!!!
Love the video, gives a very comprehensive look on sponge thickness and how it affects play. OX version is very blade dependant, the defplay is rather soft and flexible with a high throw angle.
Hi, TT11,
great comparison video, IMO the thicker the sponge layer under long pimples - it would provide more cushioning, which can make it easier to control incoming spin and add variation to your returns. However, thicker rubbers also tend to reduce the disruptive effect of the pips, as the ball sinks deeper into the sponge. Thinner sponge or no sponge at all (ox pips) increases the unpredictability and reversal of spin, which can make returns more difficult for opponents but might reduce your own control. It's a trade-off between control and spin disruption.
Very good video as usual! Just a few days ago I was talking to a defensive player and he couldn't give me a reason for the different sponge thicknesses.
Why do I get the feeling this video concept was a tough sell to Sergei hahaha
Thanks so much for selecting my comment, I've sent you an email.
This was really interesting and actually quite different findings to my initial understanding of pips.
great video! Clearly shows the difference between different sponge thicknesses. This video will be useful for both defenders and attacking style players. If I won the competition, I would give this racket to my dad, who brought me into this world of the small ball.
Hi TT11,
A great and informative video on how to play against defensive players. Will be helpful for my tournaments.
Thankyou.🎉
I am looking to switch to playing long pimples and this video was very helpful. Sponge thickness in long pimples was very confusing to me. Thank you for the effort you put into testing different types!
Sponge: thick, thin or no one belongs to the racket. If u use a stiff Balsa / Composite racket the OX variant is most disruptive and controlled; special near the table and against short pips, antitop and long pips. The 1mm sponge variant helps to save power for the long defence and supports there the " lifting ball" better. The pseudo topspin against backspin is a bit easier, too. Best price quality combinations are: Re-impact or jinhe (balsa/carbon) rackets and the jinhe Neptun long pips. For more offensive / disruptive players: try Neptun with 1.5 mm and glue it with Haifu; the sponge becomes softer and bouncier - perfect for an aggressive setup. In this case is the use of a thin (1-1,3 mm) inverted and tacky soft or medium rubber perfect deadly. Real spinny for service, shop and flick. Super control for block, counter + smash; only the topspin will be not deadly by speed. But who needs a topspin near table - early timing: block / counter or highest ball point: smash ! Lets make your opponent dance 😂. Regards from Bali to all, loving the small ball 🙏
This was very informative video. I play classical defense, so I chop with my backhand. I have tried all kinds of sponge sizes, but my favorite is 0.5 or 0.6. It's all about control for me. I feel comfortable with these than any other size and never felt comfortable with OX. So I think it all comes back to what you are comfortable with.
You guys are mind readers! I just got my 0.5mm Grass D.TecS + Hurricane 3 NEO on the Donic Defplay Senso V3 the day before this video came out and have been loving it! Perfect timing because my friend has also taken a liking to my paddle so maybe I can surprise them with a nice gift 😏
Defplay Senso is an amazing blade. I sold it to a friend who liked it but I still think about regularly
Yes Defplay Senso is awesome. Currently I use Dr Neubauer Barricade, but I have Defplay as my backup setup!
I primarily play OX long pips and have used dTecS in both OX and 0.5. It’s the one LP that I prefer to play in 0.5 on most setups because it’s easier to control, unless the blade is really slow! For Barricade and Defplay I prefer it in 0.5, only Wall and Genshu are ok in OX!
@@blueheart9873 is it not too slow if one attack from FX?
Except for Joo, most world class defenders do NOT use the thickest sponge. And the reason is simple. The most important aspect for a defender is control (i.e. putting the ball back on the table), rather than looking good or being super spinny in drills.
You only tested chopping, no blocking, from my experience OX is really good for blocking and spin reversal, 1.6 is the best for chopping but not good for blocking close to the table, I have both and I am an ox player, my style is block close to the table and attack with ox in backend and inverted rubber in forehand
agreed
Do you attack top-spin as well? I play anti-rubber and it is easy to attack underspin and flat balls. However attacking topspins is quite tricky.
Very nice comparison video. Would love to see more in-depth comparison videos in the future for more facets of LP.
That hairstyle change looks great! Thanks for the review and for the racket!
Very util information
nice to see you back on youtube , hope to see more and more reviews from the best TT store in my view , I am really interesting in comparing Neottec Voodo Classic, which you are mostly using with other popular off/off-/all+ blades
Love the in-depth review! As a newcomer to TT (started this year), I've recently switched to long pimples (Tibhar Dtecs 0X) and been experimenting on my all-round blade. I'm loving it as it's something different to majority of my opponents so I've also been curious to see how they'd perform on a defensive blade. Thanks for sharing your expertise and keep up the great content!
Great comparison! Now I’m even more convinced that my 0.5 sponge is definitely the right choice!
Hi, pls advise for a blade for 0,5 mm LP. I am attacking from FX , so it should not be too slow, yet Butterfly Innerforce is a bit fast for me
@@alexandervarna8085
Have you tried the Donic Defplay that is in the video? Koji Matsushita is also a good blade, there are a few version: normal, def, off and special - maybe one of them will suit your speed.
I love the Defplay Senso blade. It is perfect for multiple styles of defence. I tried it for one season before a friend bought it from me. With a JOOLA Dynaryz ACC on FH and Dawei 388-D1 I had so much fun. Very spinny and perfect control
Hi, is it also good for the FX attack? Not too slow?
Great video and really interesting topic. I hope you will continue with this type of content as it is really insightful for those who are new and also those who have played for a while. This is very interesting to me as an offensive player because now i will know how to play against different thicknesses of long pimples!
Thanks for the great video TT11! Something that a lot more Long Pimple players are doing lately is using them to attack close to the table as well as chop-block, rather than moving away from the table to chop. Traditionally chop-blocking has usually been done with OX to maximise the spin reversal, but it would be very interesting to see what sponge thickness is most useful for this combination of attacking play (hitting and punching!).
This video is as entertaining as it is instructive! The impressions of the attackers and the defenders combined create a clear picture. I never played with LP but I have always been fascinated by these defensive strokes and often do them with inverted rubbers. One of the reasons I was discouraged to get LP is because I don't like playing rubbers with very thin sponge, I like the sponge dampening effect a lot - this video showed that actually 1.6 is a very good option! My next TT11 purchase will be a LP rubber with thick sponge and a new world of fun an exploration await! I also love the choice of H3 as the second rubber!
Great to see you guys bring more interesting videos. Hopefully see another one soon, as promised!
Great video! Im playing long pips ox for 1,5 years now close to the table. I would like to try out pips with a sponge... Maybe a thinner one.
Thank you very much for this useful videos! I am playing OX and now think about to try out the sponge variation!
Keep it comming. I love it!
Thank you for the nice video, very informative and useful for me.
Love the fact that you are taking the time to make videos on such topics, i've always wondered the difference between sponge thickness of long pips rubbers and have never found a comprehensive video looking at it, thanks! Planning to make a defensive racket in the future to learn how to play against long pips better myself.
Thanks a lot for your trial video. You both are full of passion towards table tennis. Keep it up guys.
Thanks for sharing this video. You definitely have a way to test the rubbers that is very unique and enriching for us the viewers. I might sound crazy but the part I enjoyed the most was when Alex was able to hit the ball instead of chopping, as this usually surprises the attackers. Besides, I repeated the section of the video where he tested the OX rubber because he hit not an under spin ball, but a topspin ball! How did you do that?? Which sponge thickness did you find the easiest to hit with?
Fantastic video 👏🏼
If you still have the bats available then a second test looking at the differences for close to the table play e.g block, chop block, swipe, roll etc. would be really usefull as that is now how many LP users are playing. For example ox would give best reversal whilst 1.2 dtecs gives a lot of speed and swerve.
The indian gals like manika batra and sreeja akula use grass d.tecs OX for a close to the table blocking game. I think that is the most common way grass ox is used among amateur players, also.
So, it really comes down to some technique differences and style preferences. For instance, these giys used more traditional chopping action -- whereas ox players usually aim more for bumps and blocks.
Ox players - gustaf ericson, jian li, liu song, sun jian fei, markus grothe, min hyung jee,
Spongers: alex wu (usa, 0.9), maxim chaplygin... all the pros 😂
Very important stream. Bravo. I use 1.5 middle pips . Thanks
This is amazing well put together content. Great explanation, demonstration, and feedback. I've always wondered what the difference was and now I do. Thank you for video.
Those backhand swats from Alex were fire 🔥! I think all LP players can relate to his satisfied nod and smirk after. 😈
Great video! Definitely motivated me to start my journey from a defensive noob to Joo Sae-hyuk 😅💪
Glad to see you guys are making new review videos! Please keep them coming and thanks for all you do for the tt community ❤ I am also definitely accepting any gift paddles 😆 I’ve been giving out my old and spare rackets to friends new to the sport and I’m running out
Very nice chopping and a good comparision
Glad to see both sides of the table for the pimple testing. Very important to see how disruptive it is for the opponent as well. Never played with higher thickness sponge than 0.5mm this makes me think I should try 1.6mm sponge.
thanks for another great video. I myself use Grass DTecs in OX thickness but on an ALL+/OFF- blade as well as on Tiago Apolonia. Grass DTEcs is a very 'grateful' rubber - once you make an effort to tame it, your opponents will have a really hard time. but I should say that it is in no way a rubber for a beginner because it is quite fast and not easy to play for both the guys.
Me encanto la explicacion y proceso de las distintas gomas, soy un jugador defensivo en principio y que desde hace un par de años juego con puntos largos de los lados... uno OX y otro 0.5, y generalmente complico a los que no me conocen, no asi cuando se juega en un nivel muy alto...
Excellent topic. I'm so confused on this topic.
Thanks for sharing this great comparison video. It's really interesting topic. Greetings from Argentina.
Good video. I have been playing with long pimples for over 40 years and have tested a lot in that time. In my experience, the thicker the tail of a long pimple, the more you lose the feel for the ball and the pimple is less dangerous. Plus, the good damping for fast topspins. If you want to use OX pimples, the choice of blade is crucial. Blades with hard outer veneers ensure maximum spin reversal. The damping of the ball is influenced by the vibration of the blade. If the blade gives well, it is good for defense but bad for attack. Everyone has to find the right compromise for themselves.
Hi, pls advise for a blade for 0,5 mm LP. I am attacking from FX , so it should not be too slow, yet Butterfly Innerforce is a bit fast for me
Great video and technique. Now i know what thickness I will buy. Thanks tt11
in the Philippines, almost everyone uses OX rubber. Even our national team players use OX rubber. For some reason we aren't used to using Long pimples with Sponge. I think its because we have a history of using sand paper.
Excelente referencias, gracias por sus consejos.
Nice👍
Thanks for your Reviews 🏓
Helps alot.
I always learn a lot from you guys, thanks a lot! 👏
highly informative and useful
If chopping is the main use case, wouldn't the curl series (P1 or P4) or the Feint Longs (2 or 3) be more suitable? I see way more choppers use those 2 series than D.Tecs IF chopping is the main thing they do... and this applies to both pros and amateurs.
I always buy from table tennis 11 and as always I am very sarisfied for the good service. Fast delivery and good quality products🏓 I am also a modern defensive player🏓
Very interesting video!
Good Video, Thanks a lot!!
I would like to try that defensive racket 👌👌👌
Well I'm playing with ox long time ago but this video is really amazing and will let me think about trying the 1.6
Great Video!
I think it's a nIce and interesting topic for me, I also play defensive TT using thin 0.5 P1v on Defensive Blade. Well I think what's good about thin sponge Long Pips is that it could generate more spins, even if we get much powerful or faster attacks behind the table, because with good control and just a short movement of backswing, the ball still would comeback to the opponent with quite a lot of spins and also more tricky because of our own spins and the extra spins reversal, the ball would get slower, and not so deep but it's not so easy to be attacked back. But with thicker sponge Lp, even it has some absorption from the thick sponge, it didn't have much deception because it doesn't have much extra spins reversal, all the spins are purely come from our own backswing or generated from our racket. The drawbacks of using thin sponge Lp is only the control for the push ball on the table seems a bit not easy to control, ball tends to be not consistent on giving stable spins, sometimes tend to be not spinny (blank) but sometime also gets spins, it is much easier to use thick sponge Lp, it is just like more or less using our inverted rubber to push, so much spinny on the pushes. I happen to try from testing my friends defensive rackets using different kind of sponge thickness.Lp Well, what do you think of the best setup for playing solid defense while still be able to deliver good pushes and also could be used for attacks too? thanks
writing a comment to thank you for sharing , but if I win I would be so happy !
Very interesting Video! Thank you very much. I'm really surprised, that 1,2mm seems to have less control than 1,6mm. One note: I think, that a Curl P1 or Feint Long 3 would be a more logical choice for defensive play. Gras D.Tecs (at least in OX) is more often used for blocking near the table umnd therefore not the best reference.
I think most advanced players know to choose by feel so it would be nice if you could include which one you recommend for beginners in this style. Overall a very nice video
If there is too much Grass you might just need a lawn mower!
Thanks for the great video :) I actually have similar findings having tried OX, 0,5 and 0,9. The thinner the sponge the better it plays close to the table imo.
I'm not a long pimple player, but the topic is still interesting. I play with inverted on both sides nowadays, but i used to play with short pimple on my forehand for 5 years. Spectol Blue was my most effective short pimple rubber. I liked the one that was labeled 1.4 to 1.7. For me it was the most dangerous. Im surprised to see they discontinued that rubbber.
I'm not entirely sure which one but I believe Victas spectol series encompasses all the tsp spectol rubbers
Really interesting video. I’m a chop blocker but I do step back and chop at times and I find this hard with ox although not impossible. I was wondering if there is a good compromise with 0.5mm? Also would your findings hold true with other long pimple rubbers? Finally, would putting a different sponge under the ox deaden the pace but retain the reversal? If so which sponge? Tia
14:59 Sergey is the first person who likes the sound of ox rubber
Awesome vid
I found a subtle difference between Ox and 0.5 mm sponge and I begin to like Ox more. It is better for control and the return balls are more wobbly for the other player. The return ball is more responsive with 0.5 mm sponge and less spiny. My Ox rubber is Hell Fire X and Curl P1 has 0.5 mm sponge. Today, I just placed an order with Tabletennis11 the Grass DTecS with no sponge
I have only played with short pimples ordered from your website. I definetly have to try longer pimples after seeing this. It looked like you had a easy time to counter attack with them as well. How difficult was it to receive you active aggressive shots?
Dteks OX is deadly when you play close to the table , block and push. But you have never plaid this way ...
Since playing with pips is my “bread and butter”. I came up with an interesting analogy. The sponge under the pips is like the thickness of butter spread on bread. The thicker the layer of butter you spread on your bread, the more active you have to be during the day (game) to burn all the calories. And if you eat bread without butter (OX), then you can be more passive without fear of gaining weight.
p.s. defplay is too soft for ox dtecs
Best Chanel ❤
what about attacking ? wt thikness
great video keep it coming more like this interesring videos love to see the kids too they are great players !
hope I win
One technical comment.
Disregarding of what is being tested the best way is blind and randomised experiments.
Attach an edge tape, assign numbers and test rackets without predetermined order choosing them just by chance.
A question to the players for OX and 0,5 mm playing close to the table. What are the pros and cons of each?
Thickness of sponge is used maximum when u push the ball . when someone plays a drop shot after an attack.thicker sponge generates more backspin in pushes but thats a technique u need to master allowing the ball to stay more on the bat and brushing it and then releasing it just Like Joo sae hyuk he receives the drop shot with pips without twiddling the bat and can generate heavy backspin in pushes , many times his opponents hits that ball into the net or he has to brush the ball too much to lift it over the net due to the heavy backspin generated by the thicker sponge and also Joo gives no spin push so that the next ball will come high and he can attack that or opponents will hit it out thinking that its a heavy push ( He does it mostly at the crucial stages of the match) .While receiving the service too u can receive it with heavy backspin , it prevents your opponent to hit the 3rd ball very hard and u get enough time to go back chop. Generating a no spin push is same with any thickness. But generating backspin in pushes is only possible with thicker sponge (at least more than 1.0mm) thicker sponge also allows to vary between heavy chop Defence with lots of backspin and no spin chop . And its good when u attack with..
In short we can say thinner sponge gives more spin reversal and control so its good for close to the table blocking players and thicker sponge can give variation from heavy backspin to no spin so its good for chopper who plays away from the table.
I guess the sponge thickness debate is pretty much the same as the pizza crust thickness debate
Amuzant haha
One interesting question: Why is Grass D.Tecs the most popular defensive rubber? and are there other rubbers which deserve to be as popular?
It would be great if the price of rubber was affected by its thickness. Thinner rubber would be much more popular due to the price cut!)
You still do not have the new gewo products, if possible talk about those products for example gewo elaxxon
guys, anybody pls advise for a blade for 0,5 mm LP. I am attacking from FX , so it should not be too slow, yet Butterfly Innerforce is a bit fast for me
I wonder if the results will be the same if the loopers were unaware of the sponge thicknes?
Very good point!
great video, so I guess it's 1.6 then, because it's the most difficult to play against. Being difficult to use doesn't matter, because you'll get used to it with practice, but the opponent only has 2 games to figure it out...
It’s impossible to say what is better . Every brand produces different long pips good for def near the table or far from the table, the pips can be stiffer or more flexible, the same about the sponge and the blade…at the end is only matter of feeling very very personal.
As interesting as it is surprising. Perhaps a similar test should be carried out for players who play with long pimples on the table?
For me playing pimples with sponge is hard to control
Probably 1.6 best option for top level and 0.5 for regular defensive players. OX is usually for players at the table who like to chop block like the Indian female national players.
I think 0.9 got all the worlds far from the table and close , don’t forget that the sponge dumped from the speed of the shot if someone loop you powerful shot on thin or non sponge it will be very hard to control, must have sponge
The ox will be better on a fast blade chop blocking at the table. Grass dtecs in ox can handle very spinny loops close to the table and send back low, heavy, sliding horrible backspin. Placement is key if they have to move it becomes hard to get enough time tp reloop. Look at manika batra from India !!! Chopping off the table with ox grass dtecs on a slow blade is suicide against a good looper. One low spin loop and you can't add anything to the ball at all. 😢
Go go go chop chop love you all!
time to do video about short pimples
Thank you for the video. Cheers. First to comment. "Early bird get the worm"
I like to vary the spin, so 1.5mm sponge is best for me
The green ox version is definitely the most annoying one, I give this information based on my opponents' angry moods
Ahh this much variations in mm 😢😢
OX rules