I disagree, but hear me out... I think Zelda left behind medieval fantasy a *long* time ago. Granted, we don't know what year the first Legend of Zelda game was supposed to take place, and, timeline-wise, we don't know when Skyward Sword took place. But first, even the original LoZ featured a blend of magic and technology, and BotW wild specifically takes place *10,100 years* after literally every other game in the series. It would be very strange if Hyrule didn't have access to magic-based technology by that point, even if they did lose it before-hand. And time travel has been part of the series since Ocarina of Time, at least. I respect that you want Zelda to return to its roots, but I'd argue that the series just wouldn't be as successful if it did that. Nintendo wants to make money off their games. That means appealing to as wide an audience as possible. Incorporating other genres into the games (successfully... and I think it does do it successfully, personally... I have problems with BotW, but the sci-fi isn't one of them) does just that. Heck... the teaser for BotW 2 had a survival horror element to it, so who knows what that's going to mean for the game. As for the second question that you hate, it's basically just "why not", and I do actually think it's a good argument. It's because they can, and as long as they can do it well (and like I said... I personally think they have), there's really no good reason for them *not* too, and the sales of the Zelda games pretty much shows them that they were right to think that way.
You make a lot of good points! Zelda did leave it's 100% fantasy roots behind quite some time ago. I am slightly confused how you think LoZ had a blend of technology and magic, unless you are referring to the original idea for the game which featured time travel and a modern-day section. Otherwise I appears to be a purely medieval fantasy game. Even the instruction manual makes it clear that it's medieval. I would argue that the reason BotW was successful had less to do with it's Sci-Fi elements, and more to do with it's new gameplay. Look at all the commercials and ads for BotW. They emphasive the size of the world, not the inclusion of robots and ancient tech. Whenever a guardian appeared in promotional material it was for brief periods of time. Switch Presentation 2017 Trailer: ua-cam.com/video/zw47_q9wbBE/v-deo.html (Only features a brief look at the slate, guardians and towers. Shiekah tech shows up for less than 10% of the video.) Official Game Trailer: ua-cam.com/video/1rPxiXXxftE/v-deo.html (Again, the emphasis is o the open world. Not the Sci-Fi) I would like to further explain my logic for why I dislike the argument "Why not." It does not stand as an argument for including Sci-Fi because it does not give a positive reason for including Sci-Fi, and it does not give a negative reason for removing Fantasy Medieval. It is a neutral argument that can be used by both sides. (Ex. Why shouldn't Nintendo keep the Zelda series as a Medieval Fantasy.) I hope I don't come off as confrontational. It's hard to portray my voice in text. 😄 I love your comment since it offers a different view on the situation so I'm going to pin it. Thanks again for watching the video!
@@TheBreadPirate I was worried about coming off as confrontational, as well! It's certainly not my intent. You don't come across as confrontational to me. As for tech in LoZ, I'm referring to things like the Magical Shield, Boomerang, and Sword, and the Power Bracelet, which I guess I'm sort of interpreting as at least somewhat of a fusion of magic and tech rather than just pure magic. As for BotW's success, I actually agree with you to an extent, there, but at the same time, people *love* stuff like the Guardians. Those are honestly a big hit. I guess, for me, given the timeline, I don't think it makes sense for Zelda to be a pure medieval fantasy anymore. I feel like the Zelda franchise would just feel super stale if they had stuck to that formula/idea. If it was only like 3 or 4 games, sure, but we're up to... what now... 18 main games spanning a period of over... IDK... 11,000 years or more? Why shouldn't there be some kind of technological advance over that time?
Well, Twilight Princess gave quite a few examples of technological advancement that didn't include Sci-Fi elements. For instance, The Goron Mines include magnetic pullies, the Water Temple has gear inspired puzzles, there are cannons, and the City in the Sky gives off a Steampunk Bioshock Infinite Vibe. The reason I don't mind these technological advancements is because they feel like a natural progression from the Medieval aesthetic. BotW's technology seems to skip a few generations ahead since it features a tablet (which probably has a circuit board), robots that have AI/Lasers, and weapons that are essentially lightsabers. If they took the technological advances one step at a time I think I would have been more accepting. So long as the technological advances didn't make the game's aesthetic change too much. (How weird would it be if Nintendo made a Zelda game were people dressed like in modern times, and there was still magic? At that rate we created Earthbound.)
@@TheBreadPirate Actually, to be entirely honest, my own personal barely-a-hypothesis is that BotW 2 is meant to be the end of the main Zelda timeline... in other words, it'll be the game where Demise's curse is broken. I have almost no evidence to base that on... I just think it'd be interesting, plus it'd give Nintendo more freedom to play with Hyrule without having to focus specifically on Link, Zelda/Hylia, and Ganon/Demise. Plus they can still make games that fall somewhere in the timeline, so it doesn't have to be the last Zelda game... just the one where the curse is broken. Thus, them being able to play with Hyrule means we could have a *Hyrule* game set in modern times with modern clothes and such, where Link, Zelda, Ganon, etc are just legends/fairy tales told to children, but there's a new threat that needs to be dealt with that perhaps even calls to mind the old legends. So while I agree that a specific *Zelda* game featuring Zelda and Link set in 2020 with modern stuff would be strange, I'm not so sure a game set in a modern Hyrule with new characters and such would be that strange...
@@jimmyrrpage That's an interesting theory for BotW2! I'd love to see a climactic show-down like that. I've even heard a theory that BotW2 will end in tragedy, and BotW3 will be a finally (although there is no evidence for this). Nintendo has a butt load of freedom. It's going to be fun to see what they do.
Well, yes but actually no. Zelda has often featured tiny traces of Sci-Fi, but never to the extent that Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild had it.
@@TheBreadPirate I guess that's true it's still fun to see how they put it in I mean I would never guess interdimensional creatures with hop through portals looking like that in Twilight Princess and the designs while somewhat generic for the guardian they're still pretty fun the fight at least for me truth be told I never want to see link go into space but I'm fine with him having having an Adventure using sheikah technology
@@TheBreadPirate I mean Skyward Sword had a heavy focus on Robots and mechanical engineering. The entire desert area was filled to the brim with it, the silent realms had strange robot like knights, and the entire final dungeon came out of the island very mechanically. Many of the things in skyward were skyward sword were Sci-fi but with a medieval lick of paint. Sort of like a light saber with a medieval hilt.
I actually like sci-fi, and steampunk, and fantasy too, so i dont mind it in Zelda. Also i think it adds some mystery to the zelda universe and that's cool
There's a difference between scifi and steam punk. The spinner and the city in the sky from TP were steampunk. Wielding a light saber in BotW is scifi.
I never thought about the Twili/Twilight realm as sci-fi or aliens. I always saw it as people who dabbled in dark magic/the eldritch abyss and won. I was absolutely mesmerized and terrified by it all, and never once thought it seemed out of place. However, I do see how you, and others like yourself could view it as alien/futuristic looking. It has that streamlined feel to it. Like what would happen if you took all the flashiness out of magic and focused on efficiency. It all boils down to perception and preference, and what one sees or prefers the other might not. Thank you for sharing your opinion and not taking shots at those who don't share it. It's a nice bit of positive expression I wasn't expecting to see but I am glad I did :) Thanks again!
Exactly! To me, this is the ultimate basis on this series. Perspective. Twilight Princess wasn't Sci-Fi to me, almost at all, as if I remember correctly most of the dialog was even aimed more towards dark magic rather than alien beings. Using words like "sealing" and "realms" are usually tied to magic. I think the reason many people feel like it's more Sci-Fi, both in Twilight Princess and in Breath of the Wild, is because Nintendo chose to use runic designs that very easily mimic circuit boards. If anything it's kind of a genius idea, because it allows for Nintendo to sway the player base either way for future games depending on what will sell better to a mass market. They've never truly set in stone, almost anything in the series if you go back and really look at all the games. I think the biggest problem with the community right now, is that they said they changed their formula for Breath of the Wild and potentially the games after that point and they brought out something (Breath of the Wild) that was so drastically different from any other Zelda game, that it has people very concerned where they are taking the series, considering it mean so much, to so many people. I liked the older formula much better, but I also like how Breath of the Wild gave us something different, with mechanics like true merchants and choices for your character's equipment vastly beyond what Ocarina of Time did, because Nintendo could take the best aspects of a newly formulated game, and improve on the old formula so much faster. Here's hope that Breath of the Wild's sequel will blend the two together and produce something that will be to the caliber that even Ocarina of Time enthusiasts, (They're not bad, they just have tons of nostalgia and so do I) will struggle to decide what's best! I just want a Zelda game that feels unique again, and Breath of the Wild didn't do that past the first 20-25 hours after you have explored all the unique mechanics. That, is really where I felt that game fell flat.
To me, the Twili, especially Midna and Zant, came like the Fey. Members of an ancient mystical race that tried to grasp the power of the divine and had their magical mask shattered by the servants of the goddesses and then their entire species sealed away in a realm of perpetual darkness that can only be addressed through a rune-etched mirror or the very divine power they coveted. Over countless years they transformed into beings who die in sunlight but also created magical suns to turn the prison world of eternal darkness into a peaceful world of eternal twilight. When they were forced to invade the lake blessed by the goddesses once more at the behest of their usurper king's new God, they were twisted into be horrific forms and blotted out the deadly sun of the lands they conquered, which also turned the mortals trapped within into spirits by default (unless they had divine protection) and they could further turn those spirits into monstrosities like themselves. Everything about them is basically centered around straddling various traditionally mystic concepts of boundaries: the two sides of a mirror, light and dark, good and evil, sin and redemption, being imprisoned and having self-sovreignty, life and death, man and beast, gods and mortals, (don'tsaylolisandoneesansdon'tsaylolisandoneesansdon'tsaylolisandoneesans...) duty and desire, etc...
Well the Twili were just regular people who mastered the arts of dark magic. Then the higher powers cast them into the twilight realm. I could be wrong but this is how I interpreted that cutscene in twilight princess
@@MarcusTalks1 They are indeed! Or at the very least, used magic in forbidden ways, one of which were to take the Triforce for themselves. That is what they were banished to the twilight realm for, and the realm changed them into what we see in TP.
i apprciate the Sci-Fi elements because it is different than in real life, the additions are different than in real life practicalities, i dont think they would add a gun (hopefully)
It's the juxtaposition of the wild and nature taking back civilization and highly advanced technology that makes this game interesting from my experience.
I honestly think that the whole “ancient civilization that was also more technologically advanced” idea is super cool. But I’ve heard people complain that they leaned into it too much, which I can agree with. I hope in botw 2 it won’t be the same shrine aesthetic and everything. It worked for one game, it won’t for another.
from the look of the trailer I’m pretty sure that they have decided to move away from sci-fi in the sequel considering the lack of sheikah constructs around hyrule as well as the fact that vah ruta apparently stoped working
@@ultimate9057 they probably were "back in the wild" [after alot of years,nature took over them] and Vah ruta is off probably because Mipha fulfilled her wish and odk she gone
Yeah I was not a fan of the shrines. I love the temples/dungeons and how u get a special weapon in each of them, plus the different bosses. Please bring back temples
This is an opinionated issue. If you think Sci-Fi was awesome in Breath of the Wild then keep thinking that! Just understand, a lot of fans want the series to stick to its roots. 😉 I made this video to open discussion. Sci-Fi in Zelda is not something people tend to discuss, so I wanted to bring some attention to it. 🤖
I love the idea of ancient monk technology magic that was lost to time, I think it’s super creative and I loved it in BOTW. It added a lot of really awesome diversity.
A lot of people have been saying that. And although I prefer a medieval setting, the more I think about it the more I am compelled to agree with you all
@@TheBreadPirate while I do agree about overtly sci-fi things in fantasy games, like your example of Twilight Princess, I think BOTW did a great job of integrating its sci-fi The magic of the ancient shiekah monks, their guardians, and divine beasts, is one of the most compelling parts of the game to me. It also thematically doesn’t seem to separate from the medieval parts, it doesn’t seem alien, it seems spiritual and forgotten, which is something wildly interesting for Sci-fi.
Obviously, that is a matter of perspective! But that is a perspective that seems sound to me. In other words, you appreciate the magi-tech implemented in the game. (Magic-technology)
@@dynawesome The ancient patterns on the Guardians and Divine Beasts really help them fit in with the medieval world. But the laser sights kind ruin it with the overt sci-fi. Same with the Master Cycle.
I always thought one of the most admirable things about Spirit Tracks was how believable the concept of an industrial revolution occurring eventually in the zelda universe is. Upon landing at New Hyrule, descendants of Link and Zelda use the ancient Spirit Tracks as a means of transportation, basically single-handedly launching the world into a time of steampunk advancements.
@@TheBreadPirate Well you’re right, it’s fiction, so the world doesn’t need to do anything. It can do whatever best fits the story. BUT, I personally have always found universes that don’t advance to be kinda depressing. That essentially means all the people in that world are trapped in an endless loop, forever unable to make anything lastingly better. Especially if the universe comes with a looping curse, like Ganon continually being resurrected, it heightens the sense of inevitability. Of course, there’s no reason the games need to take place thousands of years apart. They could be set closer to each other in time and then it would make sense that we never see them advance to a sci-fi level of technology.
@@TheBreadPirate well does time flow? Do people learn? If so then yes it is only natural for things to change and it is inevitable that a people are going to become advanced in one area of another. Would an highly advanced tribe of shamans become sci-fi despite that they constantly travel between the two sides of eternity? The realm of the living and the dead? Fantasy has long had the staple of an ancient, highly advanced civilization that used tools that few can conceptualize. Fantasy even has their own version of robots called golems. The two genres have always been conjoined like twins and exist as a scale rather than as a pair of ridged definitions.
@@TheBreadPirate at its core. The franchise has always had every game progress slowly into the future or into the past. Its only natural to have advancements or past technologies. I dont understand why not.
I personally love the addition of technological elements. Thematically, the introduction of fresh elements like Sheikah tech really sold that sense of "It's new and modern" and when combined with the nature and open world design that harks back to the origin of Zelda it really delivers BotW core theme, i think it's a perfect way to push the series forward thematically
It's a fiction on science. It's easy to call it space wizards and laser swords. But really they fall closer to monks. That said. There is still a technological difference between the two
Guardians are just more advanced and efficient Armos and Beamos. Back in the day they were basic and clunky, nothing more than an enchanted statue. Now they have engines and mechanical parts all throughout, and magic is used more as a fuel source, rather than the entire reason they can move at all.
I would've assumed that I was going to dislike sci-fi in Zelda, but the story works out for me... and some enemies in the past have certainly been robotic/mechanical. Also BotW makes it interesting, because there was a progression in technology but then it all got lost, so there was a regression until they dug things up again. Almost Planet of the Apes like premise.
A lot of the technology that isnt robots in Zelda games feels more like technomancy to me, and even then we really never get any kind of explanation how the technology works. Its entirely possible in my mind that someone could confuse the robot guardians for magical golems, and really when it comes to your examples from Twilight Princess (the Twili and the twilight realm) I feel we have entirely different "thresholds" or standards for what is technomancy and what is sci-fi. We're told multiple times through out the story that the Twili are/were incredibly skilled in magic and the "alien" like beasts were just abominations created by shadow magic or something, with even Midna being transformed into an imp. The only example I could really think of when it comes to aliens in Zelda games are the stereotypical ones that try to abduct cows in Majora's Mask. Also, I personally kinda like that the Sheika are scientists and ninjas. We really dont see them enough in most Zelda games beyond Impa and I feel some of the better characters in BOTW are from the Sheika.
Why should we have sci-fi: I feel like it doesn’t really matter what we add it’s Zelda. Zelda isn’t about medieval fantasy. It’s about fighting monsters exploring dungeons And now to breath of the wild exploring the world. And if the developers wanted to spruce it up a little they could I don’t see why not.
But Zelda IS about medieval fantasy. The sword and shield are in most logos. Iconic elements like the castle, fairies, princess, enchanted forests, harps, flutes, knights, goblins (moblins/bokoblins/bulblins) are recurring because those are elements core to medieval fantasy. You remove those elements and its not really Zelda anymore.
@@Luxembourgish Glad that you said this, it seems as though either older, although it's mostly newcomers to the franchise, fail to just think for a moment about this.
I believe zelda is a fantasy game. Adding to much scifi would be like making lord of the ring futuridtic in my opinion. There was some basic tech elements but that's sbout as fae as I want it to go. Alot of fantasy games like ff9 and bof2 have a good mix of fantasy and tech but scifi is being pushed too far for me.@@jacobj3933
3:53 Cause the idea of having to fight robotic being that shoots lazers with nothing to defend yourself other than a sword that's made of weaker material than the robot Sounds terrifying and it keeps me on my toes.
I wouldn’t call the element in TP and BOWT you call sci-fi completely sci-fi since the roots are still from magic. even with that, both games are still way more fantasy than sci-fi.
It's more akin to the term Sci-Fantasy, where in sci-fi there is a level of realism trying to be retained through description/explanation of the fiction. In Sci-Fantasy, they don't much care to elaborate on the actual science of it all. It just is. An example of each would be Sci-fi = Star Trek, where Sci-Fantasy = Star Wars.
@@Zoroark_Master you've got your wizards in towers with black knights and legions of soldiers. The farm boy who becomes the hero and ventures out, saving the princess with his rogue friends and becoming an accomplished wizard himself before facing the battle with the black knight and the evil sorcerer. The only place it becomes sci-fi is when they attempt to explain the force through logic in the prequels. I guess I should've been more clearer or direct or possibly not even given an example at all because it seems you have missed the point. What you were describing in your original comment was Science Fantasy, a blending of Sci-fi and fantasy leaving out all the technical bits.
@@kevinvu5432 Beamos are a piece of technology that fires lasers, which is an intentional choice in a game where other similar turrets launch fireballs. It doesn't get much more scifi than that. Their advanced technology just uses magic as a component, hence the key word "flavoring". They're kinda like the inverse of Q on Star Trek - they are a fantasy flavored scifi race.
@@kevinvu5432 I don't know, maybe we just heavily differ here but laser beams always scream sci-fi to me. Like that old Clark's three laws bit about how science, once advanced enough, is indistinguishable from magic.
Guess I never really saw most of it as Sci-fi and instead saw it as a blend of technology and magic, like something more akin to golems and constructs.
@@starcoin5653 Its been mostly in movies, But big exames in games are Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, Metroid, and basiclly any post apocalyptic set hundreads of years later
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Yeah I agree with you, I've been getting more than tired of it. The awe and wonder I used to have for it went away a long time ago.
The first game was going to have time travel from the future to the past as in Ocarina, however going to the future would take you to a more technologically advanced hyrule, so the elements of sci fi have always been present since the development of the first Zelda
I can’t answer your second question actually. “Why should we have technology in the Zelda franchise?” Because that was always the intention. The original idea for legend of Zelda was for the tri-force to be computer chips. And that Link would travel through time to the past present and future. Of course they weren’t able to implement this concept in the original Zelda game but the idea of technology in a medieval Setting. Had always been a prevailing aspect that Shakira Miyamoto wanted to put in. Even the concept of being able to go wherever you want in any order, essentially the open world genre was originally conceived by him, but technology at the time would not allow the ability to program such freedom of choice. At least not to the level breath of the wild eventually became.
I remember that link to the past had elements of Sci fi they wanted to implement to explain the telepathy Zelda had to link but was scrapped. Other than that I don't remember Zelda 1 and 2 to have Sci fi as a main elelment
@@kevinvu5432 well in Zelda one it was plan to have it but it was scrapped pretty early on, but adding sci-fi to medieval fantasy had always been a desire of Nintendo
@@kevinvu5432 there is a UA-cam channel called “did you know” and they’ve had quite a few segments that focus on the legend of Zelda. The thing about the tri-force be in computer chips and the other sci-fi stuff is actually in one of those videos.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who feels this way! I fell in love with the series for its fantasy elements and don’t want to see those go away. One thing I disagree with, though, is that Zelda shouldn’t have touches of sci-fi here and there. I think places like the Palace of Twilight are cool because they stand out from the rest of the game, which makes them mysterious. But Breath of the Wild takes it way too far for me personally, and I hope the sci-fi is toned down once the BotW era is over.
Well said! My views on scifi have changed a little since I made this video, but I stand firm on the fact that Zelda is a fantasy medieval series. I'm happy to know someone else agrees. 😀
@@TheBreadPirateOh you're not alone man, I like sci-fi too, but Zelda specifically has always been appealing because it's medieval fantasy. The moment I saw (what I can only describe as something you'd see from star wars) that light touch screen tablet, I was a bit confused. Then I saw the motorcycle and thought to myself "why is this here?"
Agrey. Don't minde some basic machines. Take breath of fire two for example. Good blend of classic fantasy with basic steempunk or somthing. I just feal the scifi introduced in zelda is too much at this point.
MERCI! THANK YOU!!!!!!!! I HATE bloody Sci-fi being in Zelda, and yet the past two iterations have been sci-fi rather than fantasy which is really annoying!
I've always liked it when video games would throw things like sci-fi and fantasy together. It's really neat seeing things that would normally clash create an incredible story.
I agree. Personally, I don't understand how some want them to keep inventing new technology and expect everyone to keep using swords and shields. Shouldn't Link be using automatic lazer rifles by now? Shouldn't Ganon be attacking Hyrule with atomic bombs? Shouldn't Hyrule Castle be a high tech facility? My point is, if the tech is available, it doesn't make sense for them to keep using tools, weapons, armor, buildings, methods and culture that is clearly intended to be centered around medieval fantasy. It doesn't mean Zelda doesn't or can't turn away from it in certain aspects, like with robotics, AI etc, but it shouldn't abandon it permanently. The history of Middle Earth and the rest of that world takes place during thousands of years, whereas the real Middle Ages only lasted a few hundred. You still don't see Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas using pistols, shotguns and sniper rifles. In my opinion, sci-fi and unorthodox tech in medieval fantasies (especially in video games) works if it allows for regular swords, spears and arrows etc to remain relevant. No one would use a bow and arrow against a terminator. Keeping a medieval fantasy theme also makes sense if it's consistent with the world's elements. The people of Hyrule don't use electricity. Shiekah tech might just be powered by some sort of ancient magic. It makes sense for advanced civilizations never to invent new types of weapons, making old ones obsolete, if the elements required to create them don't exist in their world or don't work in the same way.
If the game stays in the same genre every game, then it would kind of turn into a Pokemon type-beat (thought of that first) But overall, I've never heard this argument before, so I liked it! Great work.
Thank you Ron! My real concern would be that the series completely strays from it's Medieval roots, similar to Final Fantasy, but Pokémon is a interesting example of a series that hasn't changes much over the years. Would you say that Pokemon's lack of changing genre takes away from the games?
Pokémon's problem isn't that they are all the same genre. It's that they literally remake the same game every five years with a new map. They could use that exact same genre with a formula other than "defeat gym leaders and the elite four" and it would be startlingly new.
If they put Zelda in space and made it a Mass Effect adventure then you’d have a point. However they still live in a medieval type world still with swords, shields, bows, horse riding, etc. Ancient technology provides a sense of mystery and wonder. What I appreciate is that they made this ancient technology mostly look and feel different than what we would think traditional scifi technology should look like. That makes it have that mysterious feel to it and in this respects magic and ancient technology (perhaps the same thing) serve the same purpose.
If a Zelda game is 90-95% swords and sorcery with some minor and mostly humorous anachronisms thrown in, I'm OK with it. The problem is when they lean so hard into sci-fi and make it so integral to the setting, gameplay, and plot that they end up sacrificing a core part of the series' identity. For better or worse, the "Zelda" brand brings with it a certain set of expectations and one of those expectations is medieval high fantasy (with a particular focus on Celtic and Germanic culture, but I digress). Change and evolution are not a bad thing but, after a certain point, it's just not the same series anymore.
That’s why I love Ocarina of Time so much although it’s not as medieval as twilight Princess in some parts I love all of the fantasy elements of the game.
It still doesn't seem like you've played many zelda games. Lazer-shooting bots and sentinals have been part of the franchise for decades - this is just them in 3d
Personally, I'd love a one off game that's just Link and the gang in fancy high tech future hyrule. Go way down the timeline. Just to see what happens.
Time for a new video on the topic! I think Tears of the Kingdom goes too far with the cars and tower cutscenes with the Purah Pad scanning stuff, but I want to know your thoughts!
isn't it more magical than pure scifi? there not alot of science going on and a hell of a lot of magic. like the sheikah tech, i'm sure is power by some strange magical power.
I tend to agree. I think Nintendo has done a good job at blending the two themes naturally, but I don't want to see much more than what they've done so far.
Can you imagine Zelda's 100 year anniversary, a game where Link is wearing Spartan armor, wielding a lightsaber and firing missiles from his spaceship?
The word you're looking for is sci-fan (science-fantasy), not sci-fi. I've always thought magitech-style stuff in Zelda is fine as long as it's not too out of place within the world the game presents.
Respectfully, disagree. However there has been mystical and sci-fi elements in Zelda since the beginning. Link's sword beam for example. Even in our own REAL Earth history, there are reports of things we don't understand about past civilizations. Just in the last century, unexplained advances in technology and advanced thinking. Those factors play into the idea that seemingly more powerful civilizations, because of their technology, can seem like magic or the supernatural. It also stands to reason that those would creep into our pop culture and spread across all forms of art and entertainment. What makes Zelda IMO, the best at what it does, is the story-telling. One recurring theme of those stories are that people, (humans) can learn to overcome their perceived or inherent deficiencies, and conquer a more powerful civilization be it supernatural, physical, or otherwise. Link does not do this alone, although he often starts out that way. Zelda games are a classic hero's journey where he "collects" and befriends allies and partners to help him along his way. He ventures along gathering intelligence and information, as he also finds weapons and other tools to master. Often these are the very same items used by the "all-powerful" enemy he is tasked with bringing down. The enemy also operates from a position of initial superior strength which clouds their vision and judgement. To quote Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi as he speaks to the Emperor in the Throne Room, "Your overconfidence is your weakness". Your own advice in the video is to "Play a different franchise". Well you could also heed that and do the same. However as we are merely expressing opinions while also pointing out realities of the games, I would submit that because Zelda blends two great genres in the way that it does, the brains behind it at Nintendo have created a whole new category: Gothic Futurism.
The thing is that Metroid is the different franchise to play for a Sci Fi fix. While Zelda is a hodgepodge of different elements, by far the most predominant is it's medieval fantasy vibe.
Hoo hoot! Bread Pirate.. Look down here! It appears that the time has finally come for you to start your discussion video! You will encounter many hardships ahead... That is your fate. Don't feel discouraged, even during the toughest times! Go straight this way and you will see many different points of view. You will find much knowledge there... If you are lost and don't know which way to go, go play some Legend of Zelda. The games you play will inspire you to make new videos. Press people's buttons to enter the realm of conflict or tough topics to open up new perspectives. On the journey of discussion, you will also see a lot of loyal fans showing you which way to go next. Did you get all that? Alright then, I'll see you around! Hoot Hoot Hoot Ho!
Aesthetic variety has been of paramount importance in Zelda since ALttP, or at least OoT. SF elements are a way to include a fully distinct aesthetic. It certainly shouldn't be the only thing they do, though. Using elemental magic for different aesthetics is a series staple, and between games, entirely different art/rendering styles are used. Why not incorporate these into the same game? Imagine a shadow temple that rendered everything as silhouettes, or a light temple that rendered with additional bloom or where light was inverted and you had to block shadow sources to see things. New aesthetics in Zelda lead to new puzzles. SF elements do this, but so do other, stranger possibilities. Personally, I want to see a folded-space temple. Is that inherently SF? I think it's more fantasy magic making use of modern scientific understanding of space.
The Twili are supposed to be otherworldly and feel alien to us. I also never saw it as tech just magic. Th robots in Skyward sword felt like a new species The Guardian and the Titans were pretty dope and full on magitek, but the MasterCycle did it for me it was just a Motorcross bike with paintjob and felt out of place. BOTW2 will probably double down on it
I personally love things in the style of Technomancy, which I would honestly mix Shieka tech more into technomancy than pure Sci-fi. Particularly with how Guardians and their variants are styled, it fits in with the setting Breath of the Wild portrays quite nicely, whereas if something like the Lanayru Mining Faucility were to be plopped in BotW Hyrule it would just seem rather strange. The biggest make or break for me is just if the technomancy fits reasonably within the intended setting. The ideas of the Lanayru Mining Faucility while present in Skyward Sword make sense to me as the area is fully built to accomodate them. We have more mechanical items such as the Beetle and Clawshots, so little robot guys wouldn't be too out of the picture. Guardians are loosely based on a kind of pottery, and due to that they fit in much better with the very organic world around them than they would in some form of shiny chrome plating. In fact- All of the Shiekah tech fits in with that sort of earthy design, so it still fits well in the world even if it isn't some fantastical mythological beast to the style of Lynels or Hinoxes. Sure, you can absolutely stick with full force fantasy, but I feel like the mixing in of correctly themed technology just enriches the setting and adds more possible mysteries to be dug into as the game wears on as well as the opportunity for fun ideas based on their workings for people like me who are exceptionally into that sort of thing.
Your definitions of “Sci-fi” is encompassing fantasy magic as well. Glowing walls and metal buildings? Can still be fantasy. Aliens? Still fantasy but is USUALLY sci fi. Aliens could use magic to get to earth and that’s still fantasy as long as it wasn’t tech. Star Wars is both Sci fi and fantasy (sci fi for the tech, fantasy for the force, etc). I understand there is overlap as in “ancient” tech or magical powered technology. Technology has been in zelda since a link to the past as well
If this was “I wish that this wasn’t in the game” I would be fine with it, but it’s “this SHOULDNT be in the game” it bothers me, you’re allowed to not like a game, or a part of the game, but this is just stupid, also “sci-fi” isn’t a game genre, game genres are like “Platformer” not “sci-fi”, game need to keep the same GAMEPLAY genre MUCH more than always being a “medieval fantasy game”
He says this is just his opinion in the video. And I personally agree with some of his points, just not how he lays it out. I think the problem isn't so much the presence of scifi tech, but how it's used and explained in the stories of the game. Majoras Mask has advanced tech, Wind Waker has Tower of the Gods, Twilight Princess has the City in the Sky and Temple of Time. The big difference between those games and more recent games like Skyward Sword and BoTW is how this ancient scifi tech is used in the stories they tell. In SS and BotW, these ancient technologies take the forefront, and the fairytale elements take more of a backseat. For example: Time travel in older games is achieved through playing a magic song or grabbing a magic sword. But in new games time travel is achieved by using machines and stones mined by robots, it kind of shatters the illusion of magic in the series. I like not knowing how magic and ancient tech works. I like the mysterious and dark origins of things like the Lens of Truth (a recent Zelda game would be more likely to explain away the Lens of Truth as a piece of ancient tech made by a Sheikah scientist). I love meeting mysterious beings with mysterious powers that will never be explained because this is a fantastical world where anything can happen. Ancient tech used to work in old Zelda games because it added to the mystery and wonder of the fairytale world. Newer Zelda games focus too much on the ancient tech, remove the mystery behind it, and push it to the forefront, tainting the magic in the process. This is just my opinion though
I'm going to have to hard disagree that Twilight Princess has sci-fi elements. I see nothing but magic that superficially resembles science fiction technology. Spirit tracks had trains, which are not science fiction, they're not even that modern, and they are powered by the magic in the Spirit Tracks themselves. As for the robots in Skyward Sword, they were electric life forms created by the Thunder Dragon, a literal GOD of electricity. I see them as more of divine creations than technology. I will concede that there is technology in Skyward Sword that is much sci fi, but not the robots.
Just like in the real world, the Zelda world lives within a timeline, where technology keeps improving to the point where the world becomes unrecognizable when compared to how it started. And honestly, I like that. It'll just make newer Zelda titles feel more fresh and interesting. Edit: Also, I enjoyed watching your video, and I very much respect your opinion.
I hate techno music or things like electric guitars in Zelda (you don't have to respond, because I don't want anyone else to go down with the ship because I said that)
I honestly hope they stick with the mixed hodgepodge of themes with botw, personally I just never liked the traditional fantasy genre (dnd magic the gathering lotr etc)
I personally love the mix of si-fi and fantasy/medieval in any game or other piece of media Also I don't think alien race automatically = si-fi, the genre more about highly advanced technology but not necessarily aliens
Plot wise I think it makes sense for games that take place later in the timeline to feature science since that's just how progression works over the course of hundreds/thousands of years. I actually think it would be more strange for there to be no progression at all. The only exception to what I just said being a cataclysmic event took place before the start of the game and so that's why progress had to start over from scratch. The issue with that though now becomes, how many games can start with restarting civilization before it becomes stale.
To be honest, I like Zelda adding bits and pieces of Sci-Fi to their medieval fantasy games. It adds a sense of variety I like, and it gives the designers more creative freedom in terms of lore and gameplay. The Shiekah Slate is one of the most important aspects of Breath of the Wilds gameplay, and I don’t think it could be as easily explained if it wasn’t Sci-Fi. Sure the abilities could be spells, but that would give Link the ability to cast spells. And Link has never been a spellcasty type character, giving Link that access would open the door to so many questions and requests like “Why can’t Link learn more spells, why doesn’t he just use spells?” and also compromise his identity too, making him less of a sword wielding hero of destiny who adapts to every situation by using the tools at his disposal. Technology is something that fits that identity since conceptually, it makes more sense that anyone can use it and make the most of it. Magic fits that status quo less so. It’s not impossible to do, but it’s harder for the designers to develop and can be harder for players to suspend their disbelief for
So happy to have a channel like this on UA-cam! Love your content! I definitely don't have BOTW, but I definitely DO need put about it way too much, so thanks for helping facilitate that😂
@@TheBreadPirate It was more a joke about how the Yiga formed and started trying to assassinate Zelda and Link because the Royal Family of Hyrule made the Sheikah get rid of their Sci-Fi.
As long as it adds something to the gameplay and makes the story more interesting, I like it. The time- shift stones in SS created some really interesting gameplay in most areas it was used. The Lanayru Sand Sea was fun to explore with a boat, the Pirates' Stronghold had a lot of interesting puzzles and atmosphere, and the Sand Ship was one of my favourite dungeons. In TP, I found a lot of the gameplay in the Sci- Fi portions tended to be less fun than the rest of the game, and I find the same thing is also true to an extent in BotW. The shrines got really repetitive (and so did all the loading screens), and the divine beasts, while cool, were kind of underwhelming. I don't think mixing genres is the problem, but rather that many of the places in Zelda games that have incorporated Sci-Fi are less fun than the rest of the game they are in, or don't really add anything.
Yeah, I agree. I think what makes it worse for me though, is that it feels like there's very little magic in BotW, even if technically the Sheikah tech is magic. It just doesn't feel like it, at all. I want the world to feel magical again.
Great video, but I'll still have to respectfully disagree. I thought it was pretty cool. I love pretty much every Zelda game, but BotW is my favorite. Now, that can be attributed to the great gameplay and fascinating story, and I feel the setting itself didn't a sci-fi aesthetic. But I found it to be very interesting. Let's be honest, the Divine Beasts were some of the best dungeons in any puzzle game ever. I can't really find any other way to incorporate that without the sci-fi elements. The shrines (mostly) played great, and the guardians were awesome, although very stressful. Honestly, I think it was just a way to incorporate more advanced mechanics into the series. The best example of this being the Sheikah Slate. The runes added so much depth to the world, and for the most part, I honestly enjoyed looking for memories. I totally understand where you are coming from here, but I personally am a huge fan of the mix. It's kind of like Fallout having 60s music. It doesn't really make sense to mix the two things, but they end of going together great. And it gives a similar effect in BotW. However, I will admit some of the advanced weapons like the Guardian swords felt out of place and odd to wield. Again, excellent content, I can see all the work you put into this video, but unfortunately it wasn't enough to sway my opinion. You are definitely underrated thought, dude. Your content is more watchable than 99% of the rest on this site.
I think an easy fix is saying that the shieka came from a far off land across the sea. It makes it a lot more plausible in terms of story and we still get that cool vibe the shieka stuff has. Heck, if we wanted to go farther maby we could say the shieka left his far off land because calamity Gannon was messing them up, but since he can posses shieka stuff he could have came on their boats to destroy hyrule.
See what I feel like most people miss here is that its not actually about fantasy vs scifi. Aside from a very narrow category of hard scifi the difference between the two is framing and aesthetic. Think about it this way, from a practical standpoint, what's the difference between the Bow of Light and a laser gun? Essentially nothing. The difference between them is in their physical aesthetic, one looks like a mystical and one looks like a gun. And in their framing, one is painted as a holy object that we cannot comprehend and the other is framed as a tool. Think about Twilight Princess. What's the difference between a ghost summoned up by magic to attack you and a hologram programmed to attack you? Practically speaking, not a lot. But one feels mystical, the other mundane. I mean, if they'd given the Zant holograms a ghostly texture instead of a static one no one would compare him to tech because it would feel like Astral projection instead of holograms. That's BotW's problem. It loses the medieval aesthetic and the sense of wonder to the amazing things. A guardian isn't presented as some unknowable monster, it's present as a power tool that the kingdom lost control of. Same with the divine beasts. The guidance stones have an aesthetic very much like computers and the sheikah slate behaves very much like a tablet. Consider this, Chronis, Stasis, Remote Bomb, and Magnesis. None of these powers are new to the series. The Ice Arrows provided a way to create icy platforms. The Phantom Sword presented the ability to stop things in time. Remote Bombs existed in Minish Cap. And magnetic manipulation was possible in both Four Swords and Oracle of Seasons with the magnet gloves. The reason they feel so out of place in BotW isn't the powers themselves but the fact that they stem from aps on a tablet. Because we recognize tablets from out every day lives, this takes some of the specialness out of the powers. Magnesis goes from this amazing thing you can only do with an ancient artifact to something you can do with an iPhone. It doesn't actually matter if the game disputes this. It doesn't matter if they stress that the sheikah slate is one of a kind and only works for the Hero of Hyrule. To the audience it is a common household object. You can give a common object the powers of God and to the audience it is still going to feel like a common object.
as a sci-fi lover who has only ever played a handful of Zelda games, I would argue the sci-fi presented in BotW has an distinct fantasy feel to it. Maybe its the lack of details behind the mechanisms of the tech? or the concepts themselves simply lend themselves to typical fantasy plot themes/motifs? the guardians and divine beasts were so advanced and built simply to defeat Ganon, yet we know so little about how they function or the pseudo sciences that went into their creation. hopefully we get more lore and details on this topic in the sequel
One of the things I loved about BotW wasn't primarily the sci-fi stuff but rather the contrast between the sci-fi and fantasy elements. I love when genres clash like that.
The steampunk elements weren't bad because at least the "tech" could have some magic to flow into and through. Things like the sheikah slate and the motorcycle horse in botw were awful, because these are things that we are so familiar with that it was just a lazy concept import that didn't fit Zelda at all.
Tbh tp didn't feel sci-fi to me like botw. Botw, even tho it did say it's ancient tech stuff, it felt very futuristic and I think its the sheikah slate, blue glowing aesthetic and definitely the robotic guardians. The divine beasts are so robotic too. Like the way they move. But I guess what I consider futuristic is considered ancient in the Zelda world lol
From the perspective of someone who only got into in these game because of botw and then when on to learn about previous games; scifi elements seem to be spread throughout most of the games at least a little bit, this one just seems to more heavily explore the idea. The next game seems to be focusing more on the magic side of things which will be interesting
Finally! Someone who gets it! I wholeheartedly agree. When I want to shoot laser beams and fight aliens, I'll play a different game in the Sci-Fi genre like Metroid or Halo. If I want a magical swashbuckling adventure, I'll play a fantasy game like Zelda or Elder Scrolls. And I don't like it when they start to try to cross-over. It's like choosing where to eat. When I want tacos, I'll go to Taco Bell. When I want burgers, I'll go to Burger King. I don't want Burger King to start putting my paddies in a tortilla shell any more than I want my fantasy game to start adding space-ships! If I did want that, I'd eat/play something else! Another franchise being plagued with what I call "genre-drift" (my name for it, I don't expect anyone else to call it that) is The Elder Scrolls. I know looking at it from the surface, you wouldn't see much Sci-Fi creeping into the series, except for the steam-punk nature of the Dwarves/Dwemer. That stuff gets a pass from me because it's just aesthetic, and not adding anything too dramatic to the gameplay itself, not to mention the race is extinct and no other race is following in their footsteps, and Steam Punk isn't quite the same as Sci-Fi. But if you were to delve deeper into the lore, you may see some inspirations of sci-fi nature creeping in. Again, looking at the lore-books found in game, you may never encounter this, but branch out into the community at large, and research things that were left on the cutting room floor. Things that are slowly being re-introduced into the series through expansions to ESO, and libraries of writings done by ex-developer/ex-writer Micheal Kirkbride, and you can see the definite attempts to "genre-drift" the series into a more Sci-Fi setting. From interpretations of demi-gods being robots from the future in a Terminator-esque fashion, to attempts at a space race in the past, to even a glorified fan-fic from Kirkbride himself taking place thousands of years in the future with advanced space-faring technologies. The issue I have with all this is not that it exists. After all, a lot of this stuff is either cut-content by Bethesda trying to keep the franchise a recognizable medieval fantasy setting (thankfully), or it's nothing more than glorified fan-fiction or fan-interpretations and theories. But the issue is exactly how MUCH the fan-base seems to be eating this stuff up. They love it, at least most of the online community seems to. And those like me who hate it are in the minority. And it seems like Bethesda is starting to realize this and are allowing the "genre-drifting" to occur in ongoing titles with constant updates like ESO. Pretty soon the purity of the fantasy genre will be wiped out. And I don't want that to happen. But if this trend continues, then you may never again get that Lord of the Rings fantasy fix in video games. Which is terribly sad!
I LOVE your analogy of comparing it to restaurant! I feel the same way. If I want a Sci-Fi game, I'll play a Sci-Fi game. And if I want a medieval fantasy game then I'll play Zelda. The two don't NEED to combine! I'll need to remember that term you use, "genre-drift" cause it seems to be re-occurring in media I see. Even something like Indiana Jones falls into this category! Consider the alien space ships involved in the fourth movie. (Still enjoyable to watch, but very startling.) I'm hoping that Nintendo brings Zelda back away from the Sci-Fi soon enough. But we can only hope.
@@TheBreadPirate I wish I could like a comment more than once, lol. I hope Zelda returns to its more familiar feel as well. Unfortunately it looks like BotW2 is set immediately or shortly after BotW, so the Sci-Fi aspects from the first one are likely to carry over. Maybe when the BotW saga (which includes Age of Calamity) ends, maybe then we'll see the last of things like the Guardians, iPhones, and lightsabers. But until then, it looks like that's all here to stay for now.
In my opinion The contrast of hi-fi (high medieval fantasy) and sci-fi has a really nice charm to it It shows that those things are out of place, for example: The guardians. You see them big menacing technological contraptions And it just feels off Ominous in a way; Tehnomancy. Frankly not every zelda game needs it but most of the time Atleast to me, it feels like it fits right in; The people from the twilight who's name i forgot. Just like the guardians the technology points to the fact that something is off it really makes them far more scary.
Okay, but honestly I think this development is kinda needed. It's a way to keep things fresh for the series (sure, gameplay should also improve but how often can you repeat the demons vs humans storyline without trying to put a twist on it?) but also a realistic direction considering that a magic medieval fantasy world would also probably utilize magic to power machines of some sorts.
This isn't related too much to the video, but one of my favorite moments is looking up to the citadel from terry town. It's like the different generations all combined. Terry town is the current, the citadel is 100 years ago, and the tower is 10,000 years ago.
Trains existed in medieval times you know, though it wasn’t until the industrial revolution that they became as widespread and used in more commercial aspects. Both Europe and Asia had their own respective train lines however small and relatively primitive they were, as someone who has a fascination with the history of trains and automobiles, I’m often quite surprised by how many people seem to have the misconception that such forms of travel didn’t exist before the industrial revolution. The key is in the name, “industrial” it was all about industry, and using already existing machines and tools in a more widespread and industrialized fashion. I’d highly recommend looking into it, the history is actually quite fascinating, and it shows just how important the industrial revolution was in popularizing bits and pieces of technology that existed but weren’t widespread.
I am personally fine with sci-fi in Zelda games as long as they fit in terms of lore and gameplay. Besides it doesn't take much to impress me I'm hooked with whatever genre as long as people do it right.
I actually really like the tech in BOTW. It provides a wonderful juxtaposition between the royal family using advances technology to fight a powerful magic. And it kinda adds to the world building. The royal family has access to this tech but your average farmer is either completely unaware of it or they only know about it through word of mouth. It creates a sort of in world class structure and I enjoy that
I super agree, I don't mind some mechanical traps like the laser eye thing in OoT and Twilight, but the whole robots mecha, screen tablet weilding, lightsaber weapon swinging is a bit much to my taste, I'm a avid D&D player and when I'm the DM I don't like to introduce Warforged characters (robot people) for that same reason.
I guess I always saw the series as moving in a technomancy direction, as mentioned, rather than what I would call ‘sci-fi’. The term is pretty broad, though, so everyone’s personal feelings on where the line falls between science fiction and fantasy are sure to be different. I suppose part of what makes me so open to seeing Zelda branch out in this way is that I get plenty of medieval fantasy in its pure form from the abundance of other media that sticks to the setting with no extra frills and never deviates. If one medieval fantasy franchise goes a direction I’m no longer interested in, I can always go enjoy another.
To me, the Sheikah technology in BotW never came off as Sci-Fi. It always came off to me as a sort of Steampunk-Technomancy hybrid; two things that can fit quite well in Medieval Fantasy if implemented correctly. In my opinion, BotW did exactly this; everything flowed well despite the stark contrast between the untamed wilds and the sophisticated magic of the long-dead Sheikah.
Video idea: who made the different unnatural terrain in botw? For example: the swirly sand thing south of akkala ancient tech lab and the big tree in the middle if the circular lake that has the great thunderblade. Another video idea: why is there a big ravine around hyrule? Is hyrule like a big version of the great platoe
Actually, the original Zelda was planned to have time travel and futuristic elements, but these got cut due to time and hardware limitations... So really, sci-fi has always been part of the heart of the series. Also, the game takes some inspirations from ancient Japanese mythologies occasionally. Some of the themes of these ancient mythologies cross the line over to sci-fi already, so context of the games' creation can be important here as well. Zelda isn't really a sci-fi series, but it's not really a medieval fantasy series either, and it never has been. Zelda has its own thing going on that other fictions haven't really replicated (as far as I've ever seen). It has a lot of elements from what feel like a lot of different time periods because the land of Hyrule isn't on Earth, and as such hasn't evolved in the same exact way. Things are out of order and jumbled from a human advancement perspective... But Hyrule doesn't have any humans, or any of the races commonly found in traditional fantasy media, like dwarves, elves, or hobbits. It has its own species... The gorons, zora, hylians, etc... They're neither fantasy beings nor sci-fi beings. They're Zelda beings. Well, there's the fairies, but that's basically it, and they don't act like traditional fantasy fairies. They don't kidnap kids or play tricks on people. There are a lot of elements from everything, as the devs don't limit where they pull inspiration from, but there are a lot of elements that are simply uniquely Zelda at their core as well. The uniqueness of this series is one of its biggest strengths.
I find that the technological sci-fi aspects works well lore wise with Zelda because it gives the series a sense of progression over the centuries a la real life history. I wouldn't be too surprised if the series slowly evolved towards an industrial era and we start to see more machinery.
Again that just proves his point, it removes the idea of it being based around a medieval fantasy world. I used to like sci-fi, to some degree still do, but it's appeal is solely on gizmos and bright flashing lights or reflective metals. And it does little to enhance the narrative of forces outside of the physical realm, which Star Wars is a prime example how that despite all of the futuristic machinery, all of the more spiritual aspects take place when characters are surrounded by nature, almost/practically never when they're in some bland, generic, illuminated room with a door that either swoops open/closed or is just some sort of energy based door.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I disagree, but hear me out...
I think Zelda left behind medieval fantasy a *long* time ago. Granted, we don't know what year the first Legend of Zelda game was supposed to take place, and, timeline-wise, we don't know when Skyward Sword took place. But first, even the original LoZ featured a blend of magic and technology, and BotW wild specifically takes place *10,100 years* after literally every other game in the series. It would be very strange if Hyrule didn't have access to magic-based technology by that point, even if they did lose it before-hand. And time travel has been part of the series since Ocarina of Time, at least.
I respect that you want Zelda to return to its roots, but I'd argue that the series just wouldn't be as successful if it did that. Nintendo wants to make money off their games. That means appealing to as wide an audience as possible. Incorporating other genres into the games (successfully... and I think it does do it successfully, personally... I have problems with BotW, but the sci-fi isn't one of them) does just that. Heck... the teaser for BotW 2 had a survival horror element to it, so who knows what that's going to mean for the game.
As for the second question that you hate, it's basically just "why not", and I do actually think it's a good argument. It's because they can, and as long as they can do it well (and like I said... I personally think they have), there's really no good reason for them *not* too, and the sales of the Zelda games pretty much shows them that they were right to think that way.
You make a lot of good points!
Zelda did leave it's 100% fantasy roots behind quite some time ago. I am slightly confused how you think LoZ had a blend of technology and magic, unless you are referring to the original idea for the game which featured time travel and a modern-day section. Otherwise I appears to be a purely medieval fantasy game. Even the instruction manual makes it clear that it's medieval.
I would argue that the reason BotW was successful had less to do with it's Sci-Fi elements, and more to do with it's new gameplay. Look at all the commercials and ads for BotW. They emphasive the size of the world, not the inclusion of robots and ancient tech. Whenever a guardian appeared in promotional material it was for brief periods of time.
Switch Presentation 2017 Trailer: ua-cam.com/video/zw47_q9wbBE/v-deo.html (Only features a brief look at the slate, guardians and towers. Shiekah tech shows up for less than 10% of the video.)
Official Game Trailer: ua-cam.com/video/1rPxiXXxftE/v-deo.html (Again, the emphasis is o the open world. Not the Sci-Fi)
I would like to further explain my logic for why I dislike the argument "Why not." It does not stand as an argument for including Sci-Fi because it does not give a positive reason for including Sci-Fi, and it does not give a negative reason for removing Fantasy Medieval. It is a neutral argument that can be used by both sides. (Ex. Why shouldn't Nintendo keep the Zelda series as a Medieval Fantasy.)
I hope I don't come off as confrontational. It's hard to portray my voice in text. 😄 I love your comment since it offers a different view on the situation so I'm going to pin it.
Thanks again for watching the video!
@@TheBreadPirate I was worried about coming off as confrontational, as well! It's certainly not my intent. You don't come across as confrontational to me.
As for tech in LoZ, I'm referring to things like the Magical Shield, Boomerang, and Sword, and the Power Bracelet, which I guess I'm sort of interpreting as at least somewhat of a fusion of magic and tech rather than just pure magic.
As for BotW's success, I actually agree with you to an extent, there, but at the same time, people *love* stuff like the Guardians. Those are honestly a big hit.
I guess, for me, given the timeline, I don't think it makes sense for Zelda to be a pure medieval fantasy anymore. I feel like the Zelda franchise would just feel super stale if they had stuck to that formula/idea. If it was only like 3 or 4 games, sure, but we're up to... what now... 18 main games spanning a period of over... IDK... 11,000 years or more? Why shouldn't there be some kind of technological advance over that time?
Well, Twilight Princess gave quite a few examples of technological advancement that didn't include Sci-Fi elements.
For instance, The Goron Mines include magnetic pullies, the Water Temple has gear inspired puzzles, there are cannons, and the City in the Sky gives off a Steampunk Bioshock Infinite Vibe. The reason I don't mind these technological advancements is because they feel like a natural progression from the Medieval aesthetic. BotW's technology seems to skip a few generations ahead since it features a tablet (which probably has a circuit board), robots that have AI/Lasers, and weapons that are essentially lightsabers.
If they took the technological advances one step at a time I think I would have been more accepting. So long as the technological advances didn't make the game's aesthetic change too much. (How weird would it be if Nintendo made a Zelda game were people dressed like in modern times, and there was still magic? At that rate we created Earthbound.)
@@TheBreadPirate Actually, to be entirely honest, my own personal barely-a-hypothesis is that BotW 2 is meant to be the end of the main Zelda timeline... in other words, it'll be the game where Demise's curse is broken. I have almost no evidence to base that on... I just think it'd be interesting, plus it'd give Nintendo more freedom to play with Hyrule without having to focus specifically on Link, Zelda/Hylia, and Ganon/Demise.
Plus they can still make games that fall somewhere in the timeline, so it doesn't have to be the last Zelda game... just the one where the curse is broken.
Thus, them being able to play with Hyrule means we could have a *Hyrule* game set in modern times with modern clothes and such, where Link, Zelda, Ganon, etc are just legends/fairy tales told to children, but there's a new threat that needs to be dealt with that perhaps even calls to mind the old legends. So while I agree that a specific *Zelda* game featuring Zelda and Link set in 2020 with modern stuff would be strange, I'm not so sure a game set in a modern Hyrule with new characters and such would be that strange...
@@jimmyrrpage That's an interesting theory for BotW2! I'd love to see a climactic show-down like that.
I've even heard a theory that BotW2 will end in tragedy, and BotW3 will be a finally (although there is no evidence for this).
Nintendo has a butt load of freedom. It's going to be fun to see what they do.
I never realized sheikah technology was sci-fi and looking back hasn't it always been a mixture of magic and Technology?
Well, yes but actually no.
Zelda has often featured tiny traces of Sci-Fi, but never to the extent that Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild had it.
@@TheBreadPirate I guess that's true it's still fun to see how they put it in I mean I would never guess interdimensional creatures with hop through portals looking like that in Twilight Princess and the designs while somewhat generic for the guardian they're still pretty fun the fight at least for me truth be told I never want to see link go into space but I'm fine with him having having an Adventure using sheikah technology
I'm fine with it for this once! But I hope in future games we go back to Medieval Fantasy.
@@TheBreadPirate I mean Skyward Sword had a heavy focus on Robots and mechanical engineering. The entire desert area was filled to the brim with it, the silent realms had strange robot like knights, and the entire final dungeon came out of the island very mechanically. Many of the things in skyward were skyward sword were Sci-fi but with a medieval lick of paint. Sort of like a light saber with a medieval hilt.
Techromancy
I actually like sci-fi, and steampunk, and fantasy too, so i dont mind it in Zelda. Also i think it adds some mystery to the zelda universe and that's cool
I'll give you that! It sure does add mystery.
There's a difference between scifi and steam punk. The spinner and the city in the sky from TP were steampunk. Wielding a light saber in BotW is scifi.
@@quinnsinclair7028 i know that, and as i said i like both sci-fi and steampunk so i dont mind it in zelda
@WAFFLE MUNCH What?
Steam Punk is just gross.
I never thought about the Twili/Twilight realm as sci-fi or aliens. I always saw it as people who dabbled in dark magic/the eldritch abyss and won. I was absolutely mesmerized and terrified by it all, and never once thought it seemed out of place.
However, I do see how you, and others like yourself could view it as alien/futuristic looking. It has that streamlined feel to it. Like what would happen if you took all the flashiness out of magic and focused on efficiency.
It all boils down to perception and preference, and what one sees or prefers the other might not. Thank you for sharing your opinion and not taking shots at those who don't share it. It's a nice bit of positive expression I wasn't expecting to see but I am glad I did :)
Thanks again!
Ayy! Thanks for the comment. You have a good point. It all perspective.
Exactly! To me, this is the ultimate basis on this series. Perspective. Twilight Princess wasn't Sci-Fi to me, almost at all, as if I remember correctly most of the dialog was even aimed more towards dark magic rather than alien beings. Using words like "sealing" and "realms" are usually tied to magic. I think the reason many people feel like it's more Sci-Fi, both in Twilight Princess and in Breath of the Wild, is because Nintendo chose to use runic designs that very easily mimic circuit boards. If anything it's kind of a genius idea, because it allows for Nintendo to sway the player base either way for future games depending on what will sell better to a mass market. They've never truly set in stone, almost anything in the series if you go back and really look at all the games.
I think the biggest problem with the community right now, is that they said they changed their formula for Breath of the Wild and potentially the games after that point and they brought out something (Breath of the Wild) that was so drastically different from any other Zelda game, that it has people very concerned where they are taking the series, considering it mean so much, to so many people. I liked the older formula much better, but I also like how Breath of the Wild gave us something different, with mechanics like true merchants and choices for your character's equipment vastly beyond what Ocarina of Time did, because Nintendo could take the best aspects of a newly formulated game, and improve on the old formula so much faster.
Here's hope that Breath of the Wild's sequel will blend the two together and produce something that will be to the caliber that even Ocarina of Time enthusiasts, (They're not bad, they just have tons of nostalgia and so do I) will struggle to decide what's best! I just want a Zelda game that feels unique again, and Breath of the Wild didn't do that past the first 20-25 hours after you have explored all the unique mechanics. That, is really where I felt that game fell flat.
To me, the Twili, especially Midna and Zant, came like the Fey. Members of an ancient mystical race that tried to grasp the power of the divine and had their magical mask shattered by the servants of the goddesses and then their entire species sealed away in a realm of perpetual darkness that can only be addressed through a rune-etched mirror or the very divine power they coveted.
Over countless years they transformed into beings who die in sunlight but also created magical suns to turn the prison world of eternal darkness into a peaceful world of eternal twilight. When they were forced to invade the lake blessed by the goddesses once more at the behest of their usurper king's new God, they were twisted into be horrific forms and blotted out the deadly sun of the lands they conquered, which also turned the mortals trapped within into spirits by default (unless they had divine protection) and they could further turn those spirits into monstrosities like themselves. Everything about them is basically centered around straddling various traditionally mystic concepts of boundaries: the two sides of a mirror, light and dark, good and evil, sin and redemption, being imprisoned and having self-sovreignty, life and death, man and beast, gods and mortals, (don'tsaylolisandoneesansdon'tsaylolisandoneesansdon'tsaylolisandoneesans...) duty and desire, etc...
Well the Twili were just regular people who mastered the arts of dark magic. Then the higher powers cast them into the twilight realm. I could be wrong but this is how I interpreted that cutscene in twilight princess
@@MarcusTalks1 They are indeed! Or at the very least, used magic in forbidden ways, one of which were to take the Triforce for themselves. That is what they were banished to the twilight realm for, and the realm changed them into what we see in TP.
"Why shouldn't we?"
Because Link with a gun is a terrifying thought.
i apprciate the Sci-Fi elements because it is different than in real life, the additions are different than in real life practicalities, i dont think they would add a gun (hopefully)
I literally about smacked a friend back in the day for this idea.
I’m gonna say it...
BOWS ARE JUST CLASSIC GUNS
@@Wappl26 sure…. If ya take away ballistics… and concealment…..quicker firing….better penetration……………………faster trajectory………………….
Yes
The irony of Breath of the “Wild” having the most tech stuff in the entire series.
Wait a minute... YOU'RE RIGHT!
Oh shiiiiii
That's kinda the point. The Guardians contrast the whole nature aspect.
It's the juxtaposition of the wild and nature taking back civilization and highly advanced technology that makes this game interesting from my experience.
I think it is said that Guardians never reached Lurelin, probably because it's very far away
I honestly think that the whole “ancient civilization that was also more technologically advanced” idea is super cool. But I’ve heard people complain that they leaned into it too much, which I can agree with. I hope in botw 2 it won’t be the same shrine aesthetic and everything. It worked for one game, it won’t for another.
That's an astute observation! I am inclined to agree. Nintendo probably will lean away from shrines in the next game.
Either they have a completely new rework for shrines,or have shrines,BUT each one of them is actually memorable [quantity
from the look of the trailer I’m pretty sure that they have decided to move away from sci-fi in the sequel considering the lack of sheikah constructs around hyrule as well as the fact that vah ruta apparently stoped working
@@ultimate9057 they probably were "back in the wild" [after alot of years,nature took over them] and Vah ruta is off probably because Mipha fulfilled her wish and odk she gone
Yeah I was not a fan of the shrines. I love the temples/dungeons and how u get a special weapon in each of them, plus the different bosses. Please bring back temples
This is an opinionated issue. If you think Sci-Fi was awesome in Breath of the Wild then keep thinking that! Just understand, a lot of fans want the series to stick to its roots. 😉
I made this video to open discussion. Sci-Fi in Zelda is not something people tend to discuss, so I wanted to bring some attention to it. 🤖
eh, tower of gods gohdan did better than the stupid blights and calamity (dark beast too)
Stompy Monk Maz Koshia is cool though
Metroid is definitely not science fiction Zelda
I love the idea of ancient monk technology magic that was lost to time, I think it’s super creative and I loved it in BOTW. It added a lot of really awesome diversity.
A lot of people have been saying that. And although I prefer a medieval setting, the more I think about it the more I am compelled to agree with you all
@@TheBreadPirate while I do agree about overtly sci-fi things in fantasy games, like your example of Twilight Princess, I think BOTW did a great job of integrating its sci-fi
The magic of the ancient shiekah monks, their guardians, and divine beasts, is one of the most compelling parts of the game to me. It also thematically doesn’t seem to separate from the medieval parts, it doesn’t seem alien, it seems spiritual and forgotten, which is something wildly interesting for Sci-fi.
Obviously, that is a matter of perspective! But that is a perspective that seems sound to me.
In other words, you appreciate the magi-tech implemented in the game. (Magic-technology)
@@dynawesome The ancient patterns on the Guardians and Divine Beasts really help them fit in with the medieval world. But the laser sights kind ruin it with the overt sci-fi. Same with the Master Cycle.
@@Luxembourgish I agree that the master cycle feels out of place
Now that you've mentioned it I've realized how cool a Steampunk Zelda game would be. I would love that
Twilight Princess had some elements of steampunk. Sky City and Goron Mines for instance.
@@TheBreadPirate True, but I'm kind of thinking robotic Victorian Britain but Zelda
you just start out with Hookshot because now it's old hat
I always thought one of the most admirable things about Spirit Tracks was how believable the concept of an industrial revolution occurring eventually in the zelda universe is. Upon landing at New Hyrule, descendants of Link and Zelda use the ancient Spirit Tracks as a means of transportation, basically single-handedly launching the world into a time of steampunk advancements.
But does a fictional universe need to progress technologically? I don't think so, but many people think other wise. Rightly so.
@@TheBreadPirate Well you’re right, it’s fiction, so the world doesn’t need to do anything. It can do whatever best fits the story. BUT, I personally have always found universes that don’t advance to be kinda depressing. That essentially means all the people in that world are trapped in an endless loop, forever unable to make anything lastingly better. Especially if the universe comes with a looping curse, like Ganon continually being resurrected, it heightens the sense of inevitability.
Of course, there’s no reason the games need to take place thousands of years apart. They could be set closer to each other in time and then it would make sense that we never see them advance to a sci-fi level of technology.
@@TheBreadPirate well does time flow? Do people learn? If so then yes it is only natural for things to change and it is inevitable that a people are going to become advanced in one area of another. Would an highly advanced tribe of shamans become sci-fi despite that they constantly travel between the two sides of eternity? The realm of the living and the dead? Fantasy has long had the staple of an ancient, highly advanced civilization that used tools that few can conceptualize. Fantasy even has their own version of robots called golems. The two genres have always been conjoined like twins and exist as a scale rather than as a pair of ridged definitions.
@@andresmarrero8666 You make a good point there. Even the Elder Scrolls series has ancient tech (Dwemer if I've spelled that correctly).
@@TheBreadPirate at its core. The franchise has always had every game progress slowly into the future or into the past. Its only natural to have advancements or past technologies. I dont understand why not.
I personally love the addition of technological elements.
Thematically, the introduction of fresh elements like Sheikah tech really sold that sense of "It's new and modern" and when combined with the nature and open world design that harks back to the origin of Zelda it really delivers BotW core theme, i think it's a perfect way to push the series forward thematically
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Star Wars isn't really sci-fi though. It's a Space Opera, or space fantasy. The Star Wars stories are literally about space wizards.
It's a fiction on science.
It's easy to call it space wizards and laser swords. But really they fall closer to monks.
That said. There is still a technological difference between the two
it's also technically a western
Star Wars is high fantasy and to me is actually even MORE medievalish than even the NES Zelda games.
I mean the Beamos is basically a low tech Guardian
Guardians are just more advanced and efficient Armos and Beamos. Back in the day they were basic and clunky, nothing more than an enchanted statue. Now they have engines and mechanical parts all throughout, and magic is used more as a fuel source, rather than the entire reason they can move at all.
Still, the base assumption would be "enchanted/cursed statue," but then that loops back around to "any sufficiently-advanced technology...."
@Doodles yes.
zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Beamos
I'd say the guardians are kind of a mix of beamos and armos... if armos were more spider like.
@@dcbandit I can dig that!
I would've assumed that I was going to dislike sci-fi in Zelda, but the story works out for me... and some enemies in the past have certainly been robotic/mechanical. Also BotW makes it interesting, because there was a progression in technology but then it all got lost, so there was a regression until they dug things up again. Almost Planet of the Apes like premise.
It certainly makes sense plot wise! No arguments there.
A lot of the technology that isnt robots in Zelda games feels more like technomancy to me, and even then we really never get any kind of explanation how the technology works. Its entirely possible in my mind that someone could confuse the robot guardians for magical golems, and really when it comes to your examples from Twilight Princess (the Twili and the twilight realm) I feel we have entirely different "thresholds" or standards for what is technomancy and what is sci-fi. We're told multiple times through out the story that the Twili are/were incredibly skilled in magic and the "alien" like beasts were just abominations created by shadow magic or something, with even Midna being transformed into an imp.
The only example I could really think of when it comes to aliens in Zelda games are the stereotypical ones that try to abduct cows in Majora's Mask.
Also, I personally kinda like that the Sheika are scientists and ninjas. We really dont see them enough in most Zelda games beyond Impa and I feel some of the better characters in BOTW are from the Sheika.
Why should we have sci-fi: I feel like it doesn’t really matter what we add it’s Zelda. Zelda isn’t about medieval fantasy. It’s about fighting monsters exploring dungeons And now to breath of the wild exploring the world. And if the developers wanted to spruce it up a little they could I don’t see why not.
O
But Zelda IS about medieval fantasy. The sword and shield are in most logos. Iconic elements like the castle, fairies, princess, enchanted forests, harps, flutes, knights, goblins (moblins/bokoblins/bulblins) are recurring because those are elements core to medieval fantasy. You remove those elements and its not really Zelda anymore.
@@Luxembourgish Glad that you said this, it seems as though either older, although it's mostly newcomers to the franchise, fail to just think for a moment about this.
I believe zelda is a fantasy game. Adding to much scifi would be like making lord of the ring futuridtic in my opinion. There was some basic tech elements but that's sbout as fae as I want it to go. Alot of fantasy games like ff9 and bof2 have a good mix of fantasy and tech but scifi is being pushed too far for me.@@jacobj3933
0:28 "do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
I love that meme! You have good taste in comedy.
3:53
Cause the idea of having to fight robotic being that shoots lazers with nothing to defend yourself other than a sword that's made of weaker material than the robot
Sounds terrifying and it keeps me on my toes.
I wouldn’t call the element in TP and BOWT you call sci-fi completely sci-fi since the roots are still from magic. even with that, both games are still way more fantasy than sci-fi.
I care more about the way it looks more than the way it is justified, but you speak rationally.
It's more akin to the term Sci-Fantasy, where in sci-fi there is a level of realism trying to be retained through description/explanation of the fiction. In Sci-Fantasy, they don't much care to elaborate on the actual science of it all. It just is. An example of each would be Sci-fi = Star Trek, where Sci-Fantasy = Star Wars.
@@michaelnello9459 Star Wars is still way more sci-fi
@@Zoroark_Master you've got your wizards in towers with black knights and legions of soldiers. The farm boy who becomes the hero and ventures out, saving the princess with his rogue friends and becoming an accomplished wizard himself before facing the battle with the black knight and the evil sorcerer.
The only place it becomes sci-fi is when they attempt to explain the force through logic in the prequels.
I guess I should've been more clearer or direct or possibly not even given an example at all because it seems you have missed the point. What you were describing in your original comment was Science Fantasy, a blending of Sci-fi and fantasy leaving out all the technical bits.
@@michaelnello9459 not because something is sci-fi that it can’t have fantasy elements
Right, but sci-fi flavoring has always been a part of Zelda games.
Always? Even ocarina of time? Majors mask? Windwaker? Link to the Past? Link's Awakening?
@@kevinvu5432 Yes, always. Go ahead and google Beamos before you get incredulous. 😘
@@OperationFreeSoul beamos never really seemed like sci-fi. Ancient magic? Ancient fantasy tech?
But Sci fi I believe is actual advance technology.
@@kevinvu5432 Beamos are a piece of technology that fires lasers, which is an intentional choice in a game where other similar turrets launch fireballs. It doesn't get much more scifi than that. Their advanced technology just uses magic as a component, hence the key word "flavoring".
They're kinda like the inverse of Q on Star Trek - they are a fantasy flavored scifi race.
@@kevinvu5432 I don't know, maybe we just heavily differ here but laser beams always scream sci-fi to me. Like that old Clark's three laws bit about how science, once advanced enough, is indistinguishable from magic.
Guess I never really saw most of it as Sci-fi and instead saw it as a blend of technology and magic, like something more akin to golems and constructs.
I think it’s really neat how all the advanced technology is described as “ancient”, usually the opposite of how it’s normally portrayed
Ancient technology is a huuuuuuge overdone trope
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Not from any games *I've* personally played have I encountered this trope
@@starcoin5653 Its been mostly in movies, But big exames in games are Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, Metroid, and basiclly any post apocalyptic set hundreads of years later
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Yeah I agree with you, I've been getting more than tired of it. The awe and wonder I used to have for it went away a long time ago.
The first game was going to have time travel from the future to the past as in Ocarina, however going to the future would take you to a more technologically advanced hyrule, so the elements of sci fi have always been present since the development of the first Zelda
I can’t answer your second question actually.
“Why should we have technology in the Zelda franchise?”
Because that was always the intention.
The original idea for legend of Zelda was for the tri-force to be computer chips.
And that Link would travel through time to the past present and future.
Of course they weren’t able to implement this concept in the original Zelda game but the idea of technology in a medieval Setting. Had always been a prevailing aspect that Shakira Miyamoto wanted to put in.
Even the concept of being able to go wherever you want in any order, essentially the open world genre was originally conceived by him, but technology at the time would not allow the ability to program such freedom of choice.
At least not to the level breath of the wild eventually became.
I remember that link to the past had elements of Sci fi they wanted to implement to explain the telepathy Zelda had to link but was scrapped.
Other than that I don't remember Zelda 1 and 2 to have Sci fi as a main elelment
@@kevinvu5432 well in Zelda one it was plan to have it but it was scrapped pretty early on, but adding sci-fi to medieval fantasy had always been a desire of Nintendo
@@Nazo-kage can you verify? I remember link to the past had those ideas but not Zelda 1.
@@kevinvu5432 there is a UA-cam channel called “did you know” and they’ve had quite a few segments that focus on the legend of Zelda.
The thing about the tri-force be in computer chips and the other sci-fi stuff is actually in one of those videos.
@@Nazo-kage I wonder why you can't just provide a link.
I always thought the sci-fi in Zelda was pretty good until BotW. They could have toned it down a bit.
Eh still like sci-fi in Zelda. Always regarded sheikah tech to be magical, and not really scientific.
I wouldn’t like straight-up Sci-Fi in Zelda, but I think BotW nailed the Technomancy pretty well.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who feels this way! I fell in love with the series for its fantasy elements and don’t want to see those go away.
One thing I disagree with, though, is that Zelda shouldn’t have touches of sci-fi here and there. I think places like the Palace of Twilight are cool because they stand out from the rest of the game, which makes them mysterious. But Breath of the Wild takes it way too far for me personally, and I hope the sci-fi is toned down once the BotW era is over.
Well said!
My views on scifi have changed a little since I made this video, but I stand firm on the fact that Zelda is a fantasy medieval series. I'm happy to know someone else agrees. 😀
@@TheBreadPirateOh you're not alone man, I like sci-fi too, but Zelda specifically has always been appealing because it's medieval fantasy. The moment I saw (what I can only describe as something you'd see from star wars) that light touch screen tablet, I was a bit confused. Then I saw the motorcycle and thought to myself "why is this here?"
Agrey. Don't minde some basic machines. Take breath of fire two for example. Good blend of classic fantasy with basic steempunk or somthing. I just feal the scifi introduced in zelda is too much at this point.
MERCI! THANK YOU!!!!!!!! I HATE bloody Sci-fi being in Zelda, and yet the past two iterations have been sci-fi rather than fantasy which is really annoying!
I've always liked it when video games would throw things like sci-fi and fantasy together. It's really neat seeing things that would normally clash create an incredible story.
It didn't in Breath of the Wild though.
I agree. Personally, I don't understand how some want them to keep inventing new technology and expect everyone to keep using swords and shields. Shouldn't Link be using automatic lazer rifles by now? Shouldn't Ganon be attacking Hyrule with atomic bombs? Shouldn't Hyrule Castle be a high tech facility?
My point is, if the tech is available, it doesn't make sense for them to keep using tools, weapons, armor, buildings, methods and culture that is clearly intended to be centered around medieval fantasy. It doesn't mean Zelda doesn't or can't turn away from it in certain aspects, like with robotics, AI etc, but it shouldn't abandon it permanently. The history of Middle Earth and the rest of that world takes place during thousands of years, whereas the real Middle Ages only lasted a few hundred. You still don't see Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas using pistols, shotguns and sniper rifles.
In my opinion, sci-fi and unorthodox tech in medieval fantasies (especially in video games) works if it allows for regular swords, spears and arrows etc to remain relevant. No one would use a bow and arrow against a terminator. Keeping a medieval fantasy theme also makes sense if it's consistent with the world's elements. The people of Hyrule don't use electricity. Shiekah tech might just be powered by some sort of ancient magic. It makes sense for advanced civilizations never to invent new types of weapons, making old ones obsolete, if the elements required to create them don't exist in their world or don't work in the same way.
If the game stays in the same genre every game, then it would kind of turn into a Pokemon type-beat (thought of that first) But overall, I've never heard this argument before, so I liked it! Great work.
Thank you Ron!
My real concern would be that the series completely strays from it's Medieval roots, similar to Final Fantasy, but Pokémon is a interesting example of a series that hasn't changes much over the years.
Would you say that Pokemon's lack of changing genre takes away from the games?
@@TheBreadPirate Yeah I'd say that, considering it's the same thing repeating every game, with only a few new things added each game.
@@RonitoBurrito Sounds like a gameplay issue. But I haven't played a Pokemon game yet so I don't know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Pokémon's problem isn't that they are all the same genre. It's that they literally remake the same game every five years with a new map. They could use that exact same genre with a formula other than "defeat gym leaders and the elite four" and it would be startlingly new.
@@quinnsinclair7028 Except, they did that, and people wanted the gyms back
If they put Zelda in space and made it a Mass Effect adventure then you’d have a point. However they still live in a medieval type world still with swords, shields, bows, horse riding, etc. Ancient technology provides a sense of mystery and wonder. What I appreciate is that they made this ancient technology mostly look and feel different than what we would think traditional scifi technology should look like. That makes it have that mysterious feel to it and in this respects magic and ancient technology (perhaps the same thing) serve the same purpose.
I've always loved when the ancient tech elements show up. It makes the idea that Hyrule's history is cyclical seem very real to me
I highly agree. Medieval Zelda things really get an adventure dark feeling which I personally love.
If a Zelda game is 90-95% swords and sorcery with some minor and mostly humorous anachronisms thrown in, I'm OK with it. The problem is when they lean so hard into sci-fi and make it so integral to the setting, gameplay, and plot that they end up sacrificing a core part of the series' identity. For better or worse, the "Zelda" brand brings with it a certain set of expectations and one of those expectations is medieval high fantasy (with a particular focus on Celtic and Germanic culture, but I digress). Change and evolution are not a bad thing but, after a certain point, it's just not the same series anymore.
That’s why I love Ocarina of Time so much although it’s not as medieval as twilight Princess in some parts I love all of the fantasy elements of the game.
It still doesn't seem like you've played many zelda games. Lazer-shooting bots and sentinals have been part of the franchise for decades - this is just them in 3d
Personally, I'd love a one off game that's just Link and the gang in fancy high tech future hyrule. Go way down the timeline. Just to see what happens.
It would be Xenoblade Chronicles by then lol. Skells included.
@@Darkstar2630 or final fantasy Vii
Time for a new video on the topic! I think Tears of the Kingdom goes too far with the cars and tower cutscenes with the Purah Pad scanning stuff, but I want to know your thoughts!
isn't it more magical than pure scifi? there not alot of science going on and a hell of a lot of magic. like the sheikah tech, i'm sure is power by some strange magical power.
Oh yeah
I tend to agree. I think Nintendo has done a good job at blending the two themes naturally, but I don't want to see much more than what they've done so far.
Can you imagine Zelda's 100 year anniversary, a game where Link is wearing Spartan armor, wielding a lightsaber and firing missiles from his spaceship?
I like Sci-Fi things in botw and how u Made this video, you don’t want others to change yheir opinion. And that is just great keep doing this stuff.
Thanks Gian!
The word you're looking for is sci-fan (science-fantasy), not sci-fi. I've always thought magitech-style stuff in Zelda is fine as long as it's not too out of place within the world the game presents.
Respectfully, disagree. However there has been mystical and sci-fi elements in Zelda since the beginning. Link's sword beam for example. Even in our own REAL Earth history, there are reports of things we don't understand about past civilizations. Just in the last century, unexplained advances in technology and advanced thinking. Those factors play into the idea that seemingly more powerful civilizations, because of their technology, can seem like magic or the supernatural. It also stands to reason that those would creep into our pop culture and spread across all forms of art and entertainment. What makes Zelda IMO, the best at what it does, is the story-telling. One recurring theme of those stories are that people, (humans) can learn to overcome their perceived or inherent deficiencies, and conquer a more powerful civilization be it supernatural, physical, or otherwise.
Link does not do this alone, although he often starts out that way. Zelda games are a classic hero's journey where he "collects" and befriends allies and partners to help him along his way. He ventures along gathering intelligence and information, as he also finds weapons and other tools to master. Often these are the very same items used by the "all-powerful" enemy he is tasked with bringing down. The enemy also operates from a position of initial superior strength which clouds their vision and judgement. To quote Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi as he speaks to the Emperor in the Throne Room, "Your overconfidence is your weakness".
Your own advice in the video is to "Play a different franchise". Well you could also heed that and do the same. However as we are merely expressing opinions while also pointing out realities of the games, I would submit that because Zelda blends two great genres in the way that it does, the brains behind it at Nintendo have created a whole new category: Gothic Futurism.
The thing is that Metroid is the different franchise to play for a Sci Fi fix. While Zelda is a hodgepodge of different elements, by far the most predominant is it's medieval fantasy vibe.
I've been thinking these exact same thoughts for a few years now .. so glad to have found someone else on the same page!
We are the rare and few it seems. XD
A lot of people really like the Sci-Fi.
Hoo hoot! Bread Pirate.. Look down here! It appears that the time has finally come for you to start your discussion video! You will encounter many hardships ahead... That is your fate. Don't feel discouraged, even during the toughest times! Go straight this way and you will see many different points of view. You will find much knowledge there... If you are lost and don't know which way to go, go play some Legend of Zelda. The games you play will inspire you to make new videos. Press people's buttons to enter the realm of conflict or tough topics to open up new perspectives. On the journey of discussion, you will also see a lot of loyal fans showing you which way to go next. Did you get all that? Alright then, I'll see you around! Hoot Hoot Hoot Ho!
Hm, that ended up a lot longer than I thought it would 😅
Crap, I keep clicking the "No" option and I keep having to hear the message. 🦉🤣
Thanks for the encouragement Zone!
@@TheBreadPirate Gotta be careful with those button spams, lol! No problemo!
Aesthetic variety has been of paramount importance in Zelda since ALttP, or at least OoT. SF elements are a way to include a fully distinct aesthetic. It certainly shouldn't be the only thing they do, though. Using elemental magic for different aesthetics is a series staple, and between games, entirely different art/rendering styles are used.
Why not incorporate these into the same game? Imagine a shadow temple that rendered everything as silhouettes, or a light temple that rendered with additional bloom or where light was inverted and you had to block shadow sources to see things. New aesthetics in Zelda lead to new puzzles. SF elements do this, but so do other, stranger possibilities.
Personally, I want to see a folded-space temple. Is that inherently SF? I think it's more fantasy magic making use of modern scientific understanding of space.
I'd be down fo a full on sci-fi Zelda game actually 😂
I like sci fi, but Zelda is more fantasy. I miss the magic in Zelda series.
We want magic!
I like the aspect of the slate and towers but all the glowing robot weapons and divine beasts are weird
I agree! The towers were a cool concept for exploration. And the slate was pretty helpful even if it was an I Phone.
The Twili are supposed to be otherworldly and feel alien to us. I also never saw it as tech just magic.
Th robots in Skyward sword felt like a new species
The Guardian and the Titans were pretty dope and full on magitek, but the MasterCycle did it for me it was just a Motorcross bike with paintjob and felt out of place.
BOTW2 will probably double down on it
Oh boy it did double down
The new zelda games are gonna make link be a robot going back in time or something like that 😂😂
A Link To the Future is gonna be a great Reboot. :D
Princess Zelda come with me if you want to live! (Says a super buff Austrian Link wielding a shotgun)
GET INTO THE CHOPPER!
like Ness
I personally love things in the style of Technomancy, which I would honestly mix Shieka tech more into technomancy than pure Sci-fi. Particularly with how Guardians and their variants are styled, it fits in with the setting Breath of the Wild portrays quite nicely, whereas if something like the Lanayru Mining Faucility were to be plopped in BotW Hyrule it would just seem rather strange.
The biggest make or break for me is just if the technomancy fits reasonably within the intended setting. The ideas of the Lanayru Mining Faucility while present in Skyward Sword make sense to me as the area is fully built to accomodate them. We have more mechanical items such as the Beetle and Clawshots, so little robot guys wouldn't be too out of the picture.
Guardians are loosely based on a kind of pottery, and due to that they fit in much better with the very organic world around them than they would in some form of shiny chrome plating. In fact- All of the Shiekah tech fits in with that sort of earthy design, so it still fits well in the world even if it isn't some fantastical mythological beast to the style of Lynels or Hinoxes.
Sure, you can absolutely stick with full force fantasy, but I feel like the mixing in of correctly themed technology just enriches the setting and adds more possible mysteries to be dug into as the game wears on as well as the opportunity for fun ideas based on their workings for people like me who are exceptionally into that sort of thing.
3:50 "Why should we add sci-fi?"
Because the people who make the games want to add sci-fi
Your definitions of “Sci-fi” is encompassing fantasy magic as well. Glowing walls and metal buildings? Can still be fantasy. Aliens? Still fantasy but is USUALLY sci fi. Aliens could use magic to get to earth and that’s still fantasy as long as it wasn’t tech. Star Wars is both Sci fi and fantasy (sci fi for the tech, fantasy for the force, etc). I understand there is overlap as in “ancient” tech or magical powered technology. Technology has been in zelda since a link to the past as well
People confuse theme with genre
If this was “I wish that this wasn’t in the game” I would be fine with it, but it’s “this SHOULDNT be in the game” it bothers me, you’re allowed to not like a game, or a part of the game, but this is just stupid, also “sci-fi” isn’t a game genre, game genres are like “Platformer” not “sci-fi”, game need to keep the same GAMEPLAY genre MUCH more than always being a “medieval fantasy game”
He says this is just his opinion in the video. And I personally agree with some of his points, just not how he lays it out.
I think the problem isn't so much the presence of scifi tech, but how it's used and explained in the stories of the game. Majoras Mask has advanced tech, Wind Waker has Tower of the Gods, Twilight Princess has the City in the Sky and Temple of Time. The big difference between those games and more recent games like Skyward Sword and BoTW is how this ancient scifi tech is used in the stories they tell. In SS and BotW, these ancient technologies take the forefront, and the fairytale elements take more of a backseat. For example: Time travel in older games is achieved through playing a magic song or grabbing a magic sword. But in new games time travel is achieved by using machines and stones mined by robots, it kind of shatters the illusion of magic in the series. I like not knowing how magic and ancient tech works. I like the mysterious and dark origins of things like the Lens of Truth (a recent Zelda game would be more likely to explain away the Lens of Truth as a piece of ancient tech made by a Sheikah scientist). I love meeting mysterious beings with mysterious powers that will never be explained because this is a fantastical world where anything can happen.
Ancient tech used to work in old Zelda games because it added to the mystery and wonder of the fairytale world. Newer Zelda games focus too much on the ancient tech, remove the mystery behind it, and push it to the forefront, tainting the magic in the process. This is just my opinion though
So should Metroid start being a cowboy western series?
I'm going to have to hard disagree that Twilight Princess has sci-fi elements. I see nothing but magic that superficially resembles science fiction technology. Spirit tracks had trains, which are not science fiction, they're not even that modern, and they are powered by the magic in the Spirit Tracks themselves. As for the robots in Skyward Sword, they were electric life forms created by the Thunder Dragon, a literal GOD of electricity. I see them as more of divine creations than technology. I will concede that there is technology in Skyward Sword that is much sci fi, but not the robots.
I kinda agree, but as long as it’s integrated well in a way that doesn’t intrude on the fantasy too hard.
I guess if you’re a kidnapping octopus with a portal gun then you’re sci-fi.
Just like in the real world, the Zelda world lives within a timeline, where technology keeps improving to the point where the world becomes unrecognizable when compared to how it started. And honestly, I like that. It'll just make newer Zelda titles feel more fresh and interesting.
Edit: Also, I enjoyed watching your video, and I very much respect your opinion.
I hate techno music or things like electric guitars in Zelda (you don't have to respond, because I don't want anyone else to go down with the ship because I said that)
Hey I doubt botw2 will completely lose the sci-fi aspect but in the trailer you can see that all the shrines and towers are gone
No guardians? No sheikah slate?
yeah, but, hear me out...
cool lights and beep boop
I honestly hope they stick with the mixed hodgepodge of themes with botw, personally I just never liked the traditional fantasy genre (dnd magic the gathering lotr etc)
Okay, but then that just makes it have no identity. That would make the franchise just some random mess of different things
I think the Twili was more advanced magic based then "technology" as you think it is
Personally, I like sci-fi being added to medieval settings because it often shows progress and development of worlds.
Since you respond to every comment, would you agree with me that Pachimari is heckin' adorable?
I personally love the mix of si-fi and fantasy/medieval in any game or other piece of media
Also I don't think alien race automatically = si-fi, the genre more about highly advanced technology but not necessarily aliens
Plot wise I think it makes sense for games that take place later in the timeline to feature science since that's just how progression works over the course of hundreds/thousands of years. I actually think it would be more strange for there to be no progression at all. The only exception to what I just said being a cataclysmic event took place before the start of the game and so that's why progress had to start over from scratch. The issue with that though now becomes, how many games can start with restarting civilization before it becomes stale.
To be honest, I like Zelda adding bits and pieces of Sci-Fi to their medieval fantasy games. It adds a sense of variety I like, and it gives the designers more creative freedom in terms of lore and gameplay. The Shiekah Slate is one of the most important aspects of Breath of the Wilds gameplay, and I don’t think it could be as easily explained if it wasn’t Sci-Fi. Sure the abilities could be spells, but that would give Link the ability to cast spells. And Link has never been a spellcasty type character, giving Link that access would open the door to so many questions and requests like “Why can’t Link learn more spells, why doesn’t he just use spells?” and also compromise his identity too, making him less of a sword wielding hero of destiny who adapts to every situation by using the tools at his disposal. Technology is something that fits that identity since conceptually, it makes more sense that anyone can use it and make the most of it. Magic fits that status quo less so. It’s not impossible to do, but it’s harder for the designers to develop and can be harder for players to suspend their disbelief for
So happy to have a channel like this on UA-cam! Love your content! I definitely don't have BOTW, but I definitely DO need put about it way too much, so thanks for helping facilitate that😂
Do you want Yiga assassins? Because that's how you get Yiga assassins.
Yiga assassins could easily exist without Sci Fi.
@@TheBreadPirate It was more a joke about how the Yiga formed and started trying to assassinate Zelda and Link because the Royal Family of Hyrule made the Sheikah get rid of their Sci-Fi.
As long as it adds something to the gameplay and makes the story more interesting, I like it. The time- shift stones in SS created some really interesting gameplay in most areas it was used. The Lanayru Sand Sea was fun to explore with a boat, the Pirates' Stronghold had a lot of interesting puzzles and atmosphere, and the Sand Ship was one of my favourite dungeons.
In TP, I found a lot of the gameplay in the Sci- Fi portions tended to be less fun than the rest of the game, and I find the same thing is also true to an extent in BotW. The shrines got really repetitive (and so did all the loading screens), and the divine beasts, while cool, were kind of underwhelming. I don't think mixing genres is the problem, but rather that many of the places in Zelda games that have incorporated Sci-Fi are less fun than the rest of the game they are in, or don't really add anything.
That's is very insightful! You have a good point with Skyward Sword's sci-fi. It adds to the gameplay.
Yeah, I agree. I think what makes it worse for me though, is that it feels like there's very little magic in BotW, even if technically the Sheikah tech is magic. It just doesn't feel like it, at all. I want the world to feel magical again.
Great video, but I'll still have to respectfully disagree. I thought it was pretty cool. I love pretty much every Zelda game, but BotW is my favorite. Now, that can be attributed to the great gameplay and fascinating story, and I feel the setting itself didn't a sci-fi aesthetic. But I found it to be very interesting. Let's be honest, the Divine Beasts were some of the best dungeons in any puzzle game ever. I can't really find any other way to incorporate that without the sci-fi elements. The shrines (mostly) played great, and the guardians were awesome, although very stressful. Honestly, I think it was just a way to incorporate more advanced mechanics into the series. The best example of this being the Sheikah Slate. The runes added so much depth to the world, and for the most part, I honestly enjoyed looking for memories. I totally understand where you are coming from here, but I personally am a huge fan of the mix. It's kind of like Fallout having 60s music. It doesn't really make sense to mix the two things, but they end of going together great. And it gives a similar effect in BotW. However, I will admit some of the advanced weapons like the Guardian swords felt out of place and odd to wield. Again, excellent content, I can see all the work you put into this video, but unfortunately it wasn't enough to sway my opinion. You are definitely underrated thought, dude. Your content is more watchable than 99% of the rest on this site.
I think an easy fix is saying that the shieka came from a far off land across the sea. It makes it a lot more plausible in terms of story and we still get that cool vibe the shieka stuff has. Heck, if we wanted to go farther maby we could say the shieka left his far off land because calamity Gannon was messing them up, but since he can posses shieka stuff he could have came on their boats to destroy hyrule.
See what I feel like most people miss here is that its not actually about fantasy vs scifi. Aside from a very narrow category of hard scifi the difference between the two is framing and aesthetic.
Think about it this way, from a practical standpoint, what's the difference between the Bow of Light and a laser gun? Essentially nothing. The difference between them is in their physical aesthetic, one looks like a mystical and one looks like a gun. And in their framing, one is painted as a holy object that we cannot comprehend and the other is framed as a tool. Think about Twilight Princess. What's the difference between a ghost summoned up by magic to attack you and a hologram programmed to attack you? Practically speaking, not a lot. But one feels mystical, the other mundane. I mean, if they'd given the Zant holograms a ghostly texture instead of a static one no one would compare him to tech because it would feel like Astral projection instead of holograms.
That's BotW's problem. It loses the medieval aesthetic and the sense of wonder to the amazing things. A guardian isn't presented as some unknowable monster, it's present as a power tool that the kingdom lost control of. Same with the divine beasts. The guidance stones have an aesthetic very much like computers and the sheikah slate behaves very much like a tablet.
Consider this, Chronis, Stasis, Remote Bomb, and Magnesis. None of these powers are new to the series. The Ice Arrows provided a way to create icy platforms. The Phantom Sword presented the ability to stop things in time. Remote Bombs existed in Minish Cap. And magnetic manipulation was possible in both Four Swords and Oracle of Seasons with the magnet gloves.
The reason they feel so out of place in BotW isn't the powers themselves but the fact that they stem from aps on a tablet. Because we recognize tablets from out every day lives, this takes some of the specialness out of the powers. Magnesis goes from this amazing thing you can only do with an ancient artifact to something you can do with an iPhone. It doesn't actually matter if the game disputes this. It doesn't matter if they stress that the sheikah slate is one of a kind and only works for the Hero of Hyrule. To the audience it is a common household object. You can give a common object the powers of God and to the audience it is still going to feel like a common object.
as a sci-fi lover who has only ever played a handful of Zelda games, I would argue the sci-fi presented in BotW has an distinct fantasy feel to it. Maybe its the lack of details behind the mechanisms of the tech? or the concepts themselves simply lend themselves to typical fantasy plot themes/motifs? the guardians and divine beasts were so advanced and built simply to defeat Ganon, yet we know so little about how they function or the pseudo sciences that went into their creation. hopefully we get more lore and details on this topic in the sequel
One of the things I loved about BotW wasn't primarily the sci-fi stuff but rather the contrast between the sci-fi and fantasy elements. I love when genres clash like that.
The steampunk elements weren't bad because at least the "tech" could have some magic to flow into and through. Things like the sheikah slate and the motorcycle horse in botw were awful, because these are things that we are so familiar with that it was just a lazy concept import that didn't fit Zelda at all.
Oh boy.. debate time, the Twili have magic, not science everything in the Twilight Realm is Magic
Tbh tp didn't feel sci-fi to me like botw. Botw, even tho it did say it's ancient tech stuff, it felt very futuristic and I think its the sheikah slate, blue glowing aesthetic and definitely the robotic guardians. The divine beasts are so robotic too. Like the way they move. But I guess what I consider futuristic is considered ancient in the Zelda world lol
From the perspective of someone who only got into in these game because of botw and then when on to learn about previous games; scifi elements seem to be spread throughout most of the games at least a little bit, this one just seems to more heavily explore the idea. The next game seems to be focusing more on the magic side of things which will be interesting
Finally! Someone who gets it! I wholeheartedly agree. When I want to shoot laser beams and fight aliens, I'll play a different game in the Sci-Fi genre like Metroid or Halo. If I want a magical swashbuckling adventure, I'll play a fantasy game like Zelda or Elder Scrolls. And I don't like it when they start to try to cross-over. It's like choosing where to eat. When I want tacos, I'll go to Taco Bell. When I want burgers, I'll go to Burger King. I don't want Burger King to start putting my paddies in a tortilla shell any more than I want my fantasy game to start adding space-ships! If I did want that, I'd eat/play something else!
Another franchise being plagued with what I call "genre-drift" (my name for it, I don't expect anyone else to call it that) is The Elder Scrolls. I know looking at it from the surface, you wouldn't see much Sci-Fi creeping into the series, except for the steam-punk nature of the Dwarves/Dwemer. That stuff gets a pass from me because it's just aesthetic, and not adding anything too dramatic to the gameplay itself, not to mention the race is extinct and no other race is following in their footsteps, and Steam Punk isn't quite the same as Sci-Fi.
But if you were to delve deeper into the lore, you may see some inspirations of sci-fi nature creeping in. Again, looking at the lore-books found in game, you may never encounter this, but branch out into the community at large, and research things that were left on the cutting room floor. Things that are slowly being re-introduced into the series through expansions to ESO, and libraries of writings done by ex-developer/ex-writer Micheal Kirkbride, and you can see the definite attempts to "genre-drift" the series into a more Sci-Fi setting. From interpretations of demi-gods being robots from the future in a Terminator-esque fashion, to attempts at a space race in the past, to even a glorified fan-fic from Kirkbride himself taking place thousands of years in the future with advanced space-faring technologies.
The issue I have with all this is not that it exists. After all, a lot of this stuff is either cut-content by Bethesda trying to keep the franchise a recognizable medieval fantasy setting (thankfully), or it's nothing more than glorified fan-fiction or fan-interpretations and theories. But the issue is exactly how MUCH the fan-base seems to be eating this stuff up. They love it, at least most of the online community seems to. And those like me who hate it are in the minority. And it seems like Bethesda is starting to realize this and are allowing the "genre-drifting" to occur in ongoing titles with constant updates like ESO.
Pretty soon the purity of the fantasy genre will be wiped out. And I don't want that to happen. But if this trend continues, then you may never again get that Lord of the Rings fantasy fix in video games. Which is terribly sad!
I LOVE your analogy of comparing it to restaurant! I feel the same way. If I want a Sci-Fi game, I'll play a Sci-Fi game. And if I want a medieval fantasy game then I'll play Zelda. The two don't NEED to combine!
I'll need to remember that term you use, "genre-drift" cause it seems to be re-occurring in media I see. Even something like Indiana Jones falls into this category! Consider the alien space ships involved in the fourth movie. (Still enjoyable to watch, but very startling.)
I'm hoping that Nintendo brings Zelda back away from the Sci-Fi soon enough. But we can only hope.
@@TheBreadPirate I wish I could like a comment more than once, lol.
I hope Zelda returns to its more familiar feel as well. Unfortunately it looks like BotW2 is set immediately or shortly after BotW, so the Sci-Fi aspects from the first one are likely to carry over. Maybe when the BotW saga (which includes Age of Calamity) ends, maybe then we'll see the last of things like the Guardians, iPhones, and lightsabers. But until then, it looks like that's all here to stay for now.
This
In my opinion
The contrast of hi-fi (high medieval fantasy) and sci-fi has a really nice charm to it
It shows that those things are out of place, for example:
The guardians. You see them big menacing technological contraptions
And it just feels off
Ominous in a way;
Tehnomancy. Frankly not every zelda game needs it but most of the time Atleast to me, it feels like it fits right in;
The people from the twilight who's name i forgot. Just like the guardians the technology points to the fact that something is off it really makes them far more scary.
Okay, but honestly I think this development is kinda needed. It's a way to keep things fresh for the series (sure, gameplay should also improve but how often can you repeat the demons vs humans storyline without trying to put a twist on it?) but also a realistic direction considering that a magic medieval fantasy world would also probably utilize magic to power machines of some sorts.
spirit tracks pulled off technology better than any other game in the Zelda series it is also the best game in the Zelda series
"Best game" is a tall compliment. XD
I still need to play it so hopefully that's true.
Oh my god dude I could talk all day about rectangles. Rectangles are the best.
Ha! You fool! Triangles are far superior!
@@TheBreadPirate are you kidding? CIRCLES are better than Triangles! Rectangles are the clear winner here.
This isn't related too much to the video, but one of my favorite moments is looking up to the citadel from terry town. It's like the different generations all combined. Terry town is the current, the citadel is 100 years ago, and the tower is 10,000 years ago.
Trains existed in medieval times you know, though it wasn’t until the industrial revolution that they became as widespread and used in more commercial aspects. Both Europe and Asia had their own respective train lines however small and relatively primitive they were, as someone who has a fascination with the history of trains and automobiles, I’m often quite surprised by how many people seem to have the misconception that such forms of travel didn’t exist before the industrial revolution. The key is in the name, “industrial” it was all about industry, and using already existing machines and tools in a more widespread and industrialized fashion.
I’d highly recommend looking into it, the history is actually quite fascinating, and it shows just how important the industrial revolution was in popularizing bits and pieces of technology that existed but weren’t widespread.
Medieval trains looked different from Victorian trains. Spirit Tracks should have gone with the medieval train aesthetic.
I am personally fine with sci-fi in Zelda games as long as they fit in terms of lore and gameplay. Besides it doesn't take much to impress me I'm hooked with whatever genre as long as people do it right.
I actually really like the tech in BOTW. It provides a wonderful juxtaposition between the royal family using advances technology to fight a powerful magic. And it kinda adds to the world building. The royal family has access to this tech but your average farmer is either completely unaware of it or they only know about it through word of mouth. It creates a sort of in world class structure and I enjoy that
I super agree, I don't mind some mechanical traps like the laser eye thing in OoT and Twilight, but the whole robots mecha, screen tablet weilding, lightsaber weapon swinging is a bit much to my taste,
I'm a avid D&D player and when I'm the DM I don't like to introduce Warforged characters (robot people) for that same reason.
I guess I always saw the series as moving in a technomancy direction, as mentioned, rather than what I would call ‘sci-fi’. The term is pretty broad, though, so everyone’s personal feelings on where the line falls between science fiction and fantasy are sure to be different.
I suppose part of what makes me so open to seeing Zelda branch out in this way is that I get plenty of medieval fantasy in its pure form from the abundance of other media that sticks to the setting with no extra frills and never deviates. If one medieval fantasy franchise goes a direction I’m no longer interested in, I can always go enjoy another.
At the same time, there's also plenty of other Sci Fi franchises as well
To me, the Sheikah technology in BotW never came off as Sci-Fi. It always came off to me as a sort of Steampunk-Technomancy hybrid; two things that can fit quite well in Medieval Fantasy if implemented correctly. In my opinion, BotW did exactly this; everything flowed well despite the stark contrast between the untamed wilds and the sophisticated magic of the long-dead Sheikah.
Video idea: who made the different unnatural terrain in botw? For example: the swirly sand thing south of akkala ancient tech lab and the big tree in the middle if the circular lake that has the great thunderblade. Another video idea: why is there a big ravine around hyrule? Is hyrule like a big version of the great platoe
Oops i spelled great plateau wrong 😂
Actually, the original Zelda was planned to have time travel and futuristic elements, but these got cut due to time and hardware limitations... So really, sci-fi has always been part of the heart of the series.
Also, the game takes some inspirations from ancient Japanese mythologies occasionally. Some of the themes of these ancient mythologies cross the line over to sci-fi already, so context of the games' creation can be important here as well.
Zelda isn't really a sci-fi series, but it's not really a medieval fantasy series either, and it never has been. Zelda has its own thing going on that other fictions haven't really replicated (as far as I've ever seen). It has a lot of elements from what feel like a lot of different time periods because the land of Hyrule isn't on Earth, and as such hasn't evolved in the same exact way. Things are out of order and jumbled from a human advancement perspective... But Hyrule doesn't have any humans, or any of the races commonly found in traditional fantasy media, like dwarves, elves, or hobbits. It has its own species... The gorons, zora, hylians, etc... They're neither fantasy beings nor sci-fi beings. They're Zelda beings. Well, there's the fairies, but that's basically it, and they don't act like traditional fantasy fairies. They don't kidnap kids or play tricks on people.
There are a lot of elements from everything, as the devs don't limit where they pull inspiration from, but there are a lot of elements that are simply uniquely Zelda at their core as well. The uniqueness of this series is one of its biggest strengths.
I find that the technological sci-fi aspects works well lore wise with Zelda because it gives the series a sense of progression over the centuries a la real life history.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the series slowly evolved towards an industrial era and we start to see more machinery.
I mean.... we have Spirit Tracks which is so close to being industrial as we've ever gotten.
Again that just proves his point, it removes the idea of it being based around a medieval fantasy world. I used to like sci-fi, to some degree still do, but it's appeal is solely on gizmos and bright flashing lights or reflective metals. And it does little to enhance the narrative of forces outside of the physical realm, which Star Wars is a prime example how that despite all of the futuristic machinery, all of the more spiritual aspects take place when characters are surrounded by nature, almost/practically never when they're in some bland, generic, illuminated room with a door that either swoops open/closed or is just some sort of energy based door.