Hello John, I am an owner of a 2021 shit box Hilux with the 2.8 diesel turbo, my question to you is can I change oil at 6 month intervals without farking up dpf performance ?
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Mr Cadogan, in my time working as a design engineer in the automotive industry (almost exclusively electronics), some of the mechanical design engineers brought to my attention some issues with short trips regarding several factors that I'm guessing you know but did not mention. 1 the engines are designed to run with clearances set to their running temperature or as close as can be done without the engine ceasing on a cold day. This of course means something stupid like 75-80% of the wear and tear occurs when the engine is getting up to temperature on runs between 2km and 30km. The other one some people do not seem to understand is that water is a combustion product. Therefore it will get into the oil. At running temperature for most cars this is got rid of (through the breather tubes) on a fairly regular basis as long as the engine is running for half an hour or more a couple of times per week. If it's all short journeys then the oil gets contaminated surprisingly quickly. So your 6 months for n oil change advice was spot on.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Can you ask your mechanical design engineers why they don't / won't design an engine that has helical drive gears instead of a timing chain, is it because of cost to design or is it better to stay the way it is now and just wait until the chain and guides wear out............after all better for the bottom line, selling spares and charging like wounded bulls for the repair..........................I think maybe the latter
Hi John. I’m a mechanic at a Hyundai dealership. But have worked at a number of other dealerships as well. I unfortunately see this all the time. People just don’t want to get their cars serviced on time. As well as oil degradation the level can drop over time. And if there isn’t enough oil in the sump for the pickup to lubricate the top end. Valves, cams etc. Then the engine will form sludge in the top end and eventually engine failure is the result. I had a six year old I30 in for its 4th service. Two services behind schedule. And another car was two years overdue for it’s service. People just don’t care until they find out an engine is anywhere from $10000 to $20000 and higher. Keep up the good work John.
Yes I once had an old Holden and my father who was an engineer suggested I check the oil and water level every morning on my touring holidays. This I did for every car I owned since then, I carry the right oil and top it up if necessary, I also carried some distilled water if the coolant level drops. I only used tap water on the iron Holden 186.
I have had 2 cars now that had 15,000km service intervals, which to me seems too long. While those cars were under warranty I got them serviced at the dealer on time according to the scheduled interval (time or distance) however once out of warranty I would perform my own oil and filter change at 7,500 then take it to a mechanic for the scheduled 15,000/12mth log book service. Reason I didn't do it while under warranty is out of concern that the warranty could be void from me, who is not a qualified mechanic, performing an additional oil and filter change. From a dealership mechanic perspective is that concern valid?
@@lukeclemo3659 yeah mate. They should. But people don’t even bother filling the washer bottle or put air in their tyres. I’m pretty sure most people wouldn’t know where the oil cap is.
@@mootazz while the vehicle is in warranty any documented work must be done by a qualified mechanic. But there is no problem doing more frequent oil changes. Better safe than sorry.
I am a retired mechanic and my observation of things mechanical, especially motor vehicles, goes back to the late 1960s. Back then services were frequent for many reasons and not just the lower standards of lubricants. Many vehicles still had to have certain joints greased to lessen wear as metals were not as advanced and clutches and brakes did not last as long as they do now either but over the course of the 1970s and into the 1980s I did notice a marked improvement in all these areas. One area did buck the trend though and that was in the drive of the overhead camshaft. Most of the product I worked on was Japanese and the ones that used duplex timing chains and robust sprockets and guides generally had no issues even when servicing was less than optimal but then the bean counters got involved and some manufacturers went from duplex to single row and bang, instant problems due to stretching. But then the rubber timing belt became the norm and I have to say that if they were maintained as per schedule they performed quite well but if they were not then it was a one-way trip to piston destruction unless you were lucky enough to have a non-interference valve train design. Belt drive was cheaper for the manufacturer and on the whole, it reduced engine weight but once twin cams became the norm belt loading went up quite a bit, and in the case of the V6 layout it was doubly bad. So some manufacturers went back to chains but because the component weight was far more important now and the bean counters were even more prevalent the chains were single row and even though they were made of better stuff they still stretched and the less robust sprockets wore more quickly and the grides did as well. So when you added overdue servicing to the equation we are back to a part that should be reliable enough for the life of the engine failing dismally. You often hear the term "that xxxxx was over-engineered and it lasts forever" and in many older vehicles there was some truth in that but in the modern vehicle that is no longer the case because "over-engineering" adds weight and cost. This all goes to making your oil changes so much more important in modern vehicles because more components operate closer to their stress-loading limits.
I'm one of the few people who prefers a timing belt over a chain because I like to keep my cars in the best condition possible at all times. On my 05 Civic with the belt driven D17, I can get a new OEM timing belt, water pump, and tensioner for about $250, change it in a couple hours, and forget about it for another 7 years. But on my K24 swapped 04 Civic, an OEM timing set with both chains, tensioners, sprockets, guides, etc is over $1000 just in parts and would be significantly more difficult and time consuming to replace than a belt. It's also much harder to decide when it's time to change it due to the significantly higher cost and amount of work required and "when it fails" definitely isn't the answer, especially on an interference engine. But as bad as people are about maintenance, I understand why timing belts went away.
As my engine has a timing chain, to replace the head gasket I have to strip the entire engine apart. That involved too many parts that had to be replaced, rendering the car uneconomic to repair. So now the entire car is scrap. Such a bad design, if it had a cambelt, I could have done the gasket for a small cost.
@@MattBrownbill Good point, that's the other reason I prefer belts over chains. I think chains are generally better for the average soccer mom/dad who doesn't know they have to change the belt every 7 years or whatever since they typically last longer than a belt when both are ignored, but chains certainly have their downsides too and it's not like they never have problems because they do. The way I see it, which is "better" depends on whether you want something you know you can plan on replacing every once in a while but is highly repairable for cheap and very reliable if maintained (a belt) or whether you prefer to have something that's expected to last longer, but roll the dice and either likely end up destroying the engine if/when it fails or spend a fortune and go through a lot of work changing the entire timing set before it fails whenever you see fit (chain).
@@averyalexander2303 unfortunately a cam-belt change is a big enough bill to impact on the value of the car. I know people who have sold cars cheap, rather than stump up the money. Car designers seemed to have been told to package everything as cheaply as possible, at the expense of ease of maintenance. Making so many jobs, that used to be trivial, uneconomical.
@@averyalexander2303 I drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla (200'000 kilometres on the odometer) and our other car is a 2010 Toyota Yaris (170'000 kilometres on the odometer). Those two engines are with the timing chain. I religiously maintain both cars. New oil and oil filter every 5'000 kilometres maximum or every three months, whichever comes first. It would be probably very expensive if I wouldn't do it myself. I'm not expecting timing chain failure any time soon and I don't even know anybody who had timing chain failure on Toyota or Lexus vehicles although I personally know many people who own one of those vehicles. The timing chain is lubricated with engine oil so it is important to do proper maintenance. Of course, plastic timing chain guides or even tensioners could fail but I believe that my engines are non-interference engines. One day I'm going to replace those parts before they even fail.
John as an independent mechanic I advise my customers to service their cars every 6 months of 10,000ks. Even if you don’t drive very far. Rubber parts breakdown & wear out with age. I do not agree with pushing intervals out to 12 months or 20,000ks as some manufacturers do. Anyone who complains about servicing intervals I always tell them services are cheap engines & transmissions are not. All modern cars post 1980 or so are very highly tuned & need regular maintenance. Keeping your oil clean & also your air filter will help in the long run. Dirty oil & air filters cause many many problems.
No harm in doing it, just going to cost you more money. Considering cars are going hundreds of thousands kilometres doing the service intervals without problems. Most problems come from electronic parts and plastic failing, no amount of oil is going to change that.
Gotta say, my 2007 200KM bomb of an Aurion got a warranty job last month from Toyota after it started pumping lines of oil onto the road. Got to love it when it has a recall on the problem (oil cooler pipe in this case). Was pretty chuffed for a 15 yo car.
My i30 is a 15000km service interval car. I do high kilometres. Pro-tip for high kilometre drivers: when the 15k car hits 10k - book the service. It’s amazing how quickly that last 5000km can tick over. Don’t wait till 14k, you’ll always go over the limit with time and the mechanic or dealer may not have the slot available.
Interestingly enough, I owned a Honda Accord (1985 or so) which I bought from new and, for a number of reasons, probably only had the oil changed at 20,000Km intervals for much of its 300,000Km lifetime. One interval would have been closer to 40,000Km. However, I did use good quality synthetic oil. When it was retired (after the wife rolled it into a paddock just down the road) I stripped the engine and was gobsmacked that there was so little wear inside. All I can draw from this is that if you have *really* good engineering and metalurgy combined with the best quality oils then you have a *lot* more lattitude when it comes to oil changes than when you use cheaper oil (as many dealers/garages do) and engines that are built "to a price". I've never had a major (engine) mechanical failure with Honda or Toyota despite them being ridden hard and put away wet on far too many occasions.
Synthetic oil never breaks down, you could change it at 100,000klm and it's still good. The problem is it gets dirty, that's the only reason for changing it
@@zagan1 oil additive packs degrade and are depleted, viscosity enhancers ( engineered tiny pieces of temperature reactive polymers) also degrade/ shear. So yes the oil does not wear out, but the protective properties alter markedly over time
@@daveroski From memory it was Mobil 1 15W50. This was a pre-VTEC engine so a higher viscosity oil didn't affect things and a lot of the Kms were commute journeys of about 80Km (50 miles) so the engine was running at optimal temperature for most of its life.
I like Hyundais and generally think they are good cars. It is well known though that the GD 1.8 and 2.0 engines were known for a design floor that produced piston slap due to bore and piston wear. There are lots of videos online of them being stripped down and I had one myself. It was Sold to us by a Hyundai dealer at 120,000kms. They quite likely knew about it because they warmed it up before they let us test drive it. By 150,000kms it had changed from a tappet type noise to sounding like the engine was full of 10c pieces and even had a slight knock. We were contacted by lawyers asking if we had had these symptoms, so obviously this is not an isolated incident.
I'm making this comment from probably the first 30 or 40 seconds in. Here's why you should get your car serviced often. Because it extends the life of your vehicle. If your vehicle and or tool or whatever you use is very well maintained and of a high build quality, even if it is rarely used, it will last a very long time. My wife (and I've made this same comment probably 4 million times now) has a 2013 diesel Santa Fe. We have it serviced 6 months /7500km or whichever comes first (always time). My wife drives 6km to, and 6km from work, every day. The handbook for this vehicle mentions frequent short trips as condition A (or B or C or D or something, and the extra requirements for this is halving the advertised service interval. It's in the book. It's in the bloody book.
Exactly! We have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe V6 . It was my wife's dad's car and has 245,000 km. We only do maybe 6,000 a year of that. I change the oil every 6 months. My old Falcon the same. 20yo. No oil or coolant losss👍
Our motor mechanics teacher at highschool in 90's, an ex race mechanic, always preached to us teens 'change your oil at half interval and you'l never have an issue, its cheap insurance'. Done this with all my cars both motor and trans, and never had any issues even with heavy footed driving and regular trips to the drag stip for fun. Seriously, look out for oil on special, reguarly goes on half price, $10 filter, twice a year, its not that costly - hold onto receipts and helps resale big time.
Always get my 2018 Kia Carnival serviced every 7500km, does average km a year, but was recommended by a trusted mechanic as it extends the longevity of the engine over the life of the car, have done it to my 09 Hyundai Imax even though I service it myself these days and is pushing 240k km with no engine issues yet.
About servicing your car it needs to be done by the book or early-ish depending on your tipe of driving. My neighbor has a ford van in UK. 4 years old and a bit over 100k miles and out of warranty. Timing belt or chain broke so catastrophic failure. The service schedule for timing belt or chain was 150k miles or 10 years. He went back to the ford garage where he was servicing the van by the manufacturer schedule. No question asked, the dealership changed the engine with a brand new engine.
All of us engineers and mechanics may have slightly different opinions on service intervals, and nuances of when to service based on driving, but we all are saying that service must be performed to prolong the life of engines, transmissions and so forth. My personal opinion is to perform and oil change service every 5-6k miles (8-10k km) or every 6-8 months, using a quality synthetic oil and OEM filter, which one could argue that I could go longer between services, but the results of my service interval and recommendation speak for themselves, my 2012 Honda Odyssey with 155k miles (250k km) has been serviced my way since I purchased it over 4 years ago, and what I found when performing the valve clearance adjustment is that the engine internals are still very clean, a small amount a varnish, absolutely no sludge, also the engine doesn’t consume oil excessively like many other modern engines do, it may use 1L in the 5000 mile interval. But this idea that modern cars don’t need service is encouraged by manufacturers in my opinion, and much of the driving public believes that these machines are magic boxes that just need fuel, so now reliability reports can be skewed to be poor, when that shouldn’t be the case, because many manufacturers have improved their product in many ways, but if their customer base doesn’t care for it as they should we all see what happens.
In 1979 my friend had a timing chain break on his 3rd series Land Rover on the gravel road between Bourke and Cobar. I waited with the vehicle whist the driver hitched to Bourke and got a tow truck. I am grateful to the gentleman who stopped and gave me half a cold bottle of coke whilst I waited. We stayed 3 days or so waiting for it to be fixed, we were lucky all it needed was just the timing chain to be replaced. I has a passbook with the Vic States Savings Bank and I wanted to withdraw more than the max limit and the bank in Bourke had to call my home branch in Melbourne and charged me something like $5 for the phone call.
I have a kia of the same age and same ks. I would say old mate's timing chain did really well to survive so long with service intervals up to and over 20 thousand ks... i get mine done every 10k and it's still ticking along like new.
My 2018 Santa Fe 2.2 D has only done 13000 ks. I have had two electrical warranty repairs done. The dealer at North Lakes QLD has serviced it from new. No dramas getting it fixed. They know me by name. 10/10 for customer service.
My Genesis GV70 2.2D diesel is hands down the best passenger car diesel engine I have experienced. I have had a few. Most passengers cannot believe how quiet and smooth it is. NO turbo lag. Joy. I change the oil myself between services at 7.5K’s . Service intervals at 15K’s is just too long for a business vehicle that is constantly on the road.
As for me... I'm nearly 62 and paying $40,000 for a new Kia, a freaking lot of money on a single wage. I will bow down to the Kia god and have my car serviced religiously. It ain't a $500 mower used and abused and expected to sing and dance on a Sunday. Will be doing what Scotty K and the Car Wizard preach and probably halve the oil change times as well, receipts kept of course. Cars like a marriage, a commitment a contract and a cancer if not maintained.
My $500 mower cost $1000 about 15 years ago. It's probably done half the hours that my cars have in that time and, I'm not joking. I change the oil annually and clean/replace the filter when I think about it. The carby has been off once for a thorough de gunking and the thing runs like new. Lawnmowers are like marriage. You don't want to get caught cutting your neighbour' s grass.
I'm 50/50 on this issue. I over service on the km metric but under-service on time metric, despite what "they" say. Modern service intervals are too long due to competition in the marketplace on this metric, and a number of known faults are simply fixed by voluntary shorter intervals. E.g. Toyota 2AZFE oil capillaries in pistons block up with long (but compliant) intervals, causing oil consumption and overheating. I do all the minor servicing myself, use mechanics for major stuff like timing belts. I try to treat my Toyota 4cyl petrol and diesels to 5,000km intervals, will stretch if it's all highway km. I use fully synthetic Penrite oils and have watched Project Farm's lubricity tests on old but unused oil. The degradation in performance was minimal, and a good quality, old, synthetic oil is still better than a new, cheap, mineral oil. So yes, with fully synthetics I will let oil and oil filter changes go long, 2 or 3 years if car is driven sparingly BUT regularly. Don't let them sit and rot. I still check and top up oil, and I still check air filters and even if they don't need it will blow them out with a compressor in the reverse direction. Some of my vehicles have/had snorkels and prefilters. I've always had good reliability and longevity out of my vehicles.
Enjoy watching Curtis, that guy does stuff bordering on magic. And Fireball tools is a site that at times has me stunned. On the issue of service and the time/distance question. I do not think that the manufacturers are explaining the need adequately. I run on a time for service rather than a distance as my garage ornament (2002 MGTF 160) really doesn't get a lot of time on the road. I worked in TAFE and some of the maths support I had to do was with automotive. The instructors there went to great lengths to explain the degradation of oils, timing, stretch factors, brake binding and tyre flat spot problems. They talked about the nasties that sat in oils and festered away at metal surfaces because the components were not moving. They had camshaft lobes with less than 20k with holes in the hard surface. Water pumps jammed with muck that looked like red mud. Out of round wheel bearings because the car just sat and compressed the bearing. The best was from a car never driven in the rain with the wiper blades welded to the glass. I am 77 years old and remember the thousand mile service, the gearbox and diff oil change at 3,000 and 5,000 miles. S= k log W.
You are a fair man John, I have been a service manager, in a non-aligned industry. In many instances (more often than not) I would bend over backwards to give my customers the benefit of the doubt. However, on occasion people would try and pull one over on me and I felt annoyed. Some folks just do not have an inner sense of responsibility, and when that occurs, I must remind them.
There is a class action lawsuit against Hyundai/Kia for poor QC with their engines. Hyundai/Kia knew about these engine issues since 2015 and still decided to sell their vehicles with said engine defects. I wouldn't but a Hyundai or Kia at the moment. The engine issues are not related to servicing.
Great video John. I have a mate who has just learnt the hard way how costly it is not to get a car serviced. He’s owned a VW Amarok for a few years and we travel to Dingo Piss Creek a couple of times a year. In August the Amarok had a catastrophic failure going over a cattle grid. It blew a hole through the engine. It cost a fortune to get towed back to the metro area. VW inspected the car and said it would not be covered under warranty as it was over it’s required service by 1000km and the service schedule hadn’t been followed. The insurance company said they wouldn’t cover the cost to repair the vehicle as the service schedule wasn’t maintained. Now he’s left paying off a car that doesn’t work and he’s taking out a $40K loan for a new engine and gear box. Lesson learnt… get your car serviced if you want any form of support from the manufacturer or your insurance company.
I'm a low mileage driver. However, I get my 2005 Lancer serviced every six months regardless. It's done well over 200,000 kays, well past the service maintenance intervals in the driver's handbook. Still has the original engine and auto trans. The timing belt got changed at 100,000 and 200,000 kays. Prevention is better than the cure!
My ‘11 Sonata spun a main bearing at 140,000 miles. Since I had it ‘detuned’ for recall service they told me it had a lifetime engine warranty. They replaced the engine for free. Good on Hyundai but I am not so sure about buying another one.
My Forester XT has 7.5k mile intervals, but I've always serviced it every 5k. Oil and filters are cheap and if you look at what is considered "extreme driving conditions" it covers almost every car. I think some of the long intervals has to do with marketing. Longer intervals means a lower cost to own.... on paper.
Same with "lifetime" components - BMW USA years ago changed their model to cover servicing, and all of a sudden, 30,000 + was a service interval. Funny how once a manufacturer says "we'll do this for you" everything becomes a "longer lasting" component... until it breaks.
Correct! Long drain service intervals 15 000km + give owners that warm, fuzzy feeling that "this car is cheap to keep until...engine fails. Many owners also believe that gearboxes "sealed for Life" means never having to carry out a transmission flush. Wrong! Manual & auto gearboxes require lubrication to be changed from time to time.
You can service a vehicle based upon time or distance. Engine operating hours are very helpful for vehicles used in fleets. Reasoning for engine operational time records can include excessive idling, sitting on the brakes during rush hour, as well as anything that requires a running engine on the vehicle in question.
In the Hyundai community I've heard of a few cases of engines blowing up with the new Elantra N. 100% of the time these cars have been modified. Let's be honest, Hyundai for the most part has always catered to a more "frugal" person. Frugal people tend to do their own work to try and save money. Some know what they're doing, most don't. They will claim their car was totally stock and just magically exploded, then you find the old posts where they had Turbo kits and tried doing their own half-a** tuning. I find it very frustrating because I have owned a couple Hyundai's as well as the new EN, they have been great cars, I also change the oil every 5000 miles myself.
I agree in this case that the owner is out of luck. On the other hand, in North America there have been many recalls for engine issues. They appear to be related to the US engine plants which have acknowledged quality control problems. I assume that Australia spec cars are sourced from Asia.
In the US, many consider Kia (especially) and Hyundai junk. I think it’s due to most owners not servicing them. A relative of mine has an ‘04 Kia and it’s still in good shape, because it’s been maintained.
I just had a customer with a knock in their Hyundai Sonata. I asked our local Hyundai dealer to have a look and the first thing they asked for was the service history. Fortunately the customer has an immaculate service history. The result is 100% coverage of a new engine despite being out of warranty on time. Well done Hyundai.
Yup, my 2011 accent tranny pooped out at 115,000 km. The dealer service guy was genuinely gobsmacked. The car was serviced on time, complete docs in the bag. Hyundai put a reman in, no argument, which I now have 105,000 km on, fingers crossed. My next car will be a Hyundai. If I live that long.
Mine is due to be replaced and they will only supply the block - I gotta pay $5500 labor...plus a new $4000 CAT - Hyundai will look for reasons to deny claims (such as less than immaculate service history), even though they are WELL AWARE this is their fault - so IMO not well done Hyundai. NEVER buying another Hyundai
They just told me they won't cover the engine for me. I have the same issue on my car and now it's junk. So so pissed off right now. They told me it would be $6,500 for a new engine. Fuck Hyundai.
@@user-jx8zw3yr1isame here. I basically got sold a car with a fked up engine. They told me it would be 6500 out of pocket for a new engine. Never EVER giving Hyundai my money ever again. What a joke of a company. Now I don't have a car.
I would ask for an itemised document of the parts they put into the vehicle; we had a warranty motor replacement done, but we've discovered that most of it was second hand parts from a wrecked car and it now runs like dogshit with all sorts of buzzing and vibration that it never used to have. We're about to take Hyundai to the ombudsman as they've been unbelievably difficult and belligerent towards us.
I remember back before we had self-service here in the U.S., the gas station attendants while filling the tank would check the oil and transmission fluid and notify you if it was low or dirty, hoping to sell fluids or maintenance. Most people nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone check these things.
Thank you for the great videos. I appreciate the fact that you approach things from an unbiased position. My family has purchased four Hyundai or Kia vehicles over the past fifteen or twenty years and the worst thing we had go wrong was a bad alternator in a 2010 Rio (replaced under warranty). We always get the services done as required. I have heard so many horror stories, but more times than not, the services were either completely ignored or not done on time. While serving in the U.S. Air Force many years ago, I did all the oil changes myself. If you can't afford to get the required services, at least change your oil and make sure you inspect the belts. Again, thank you for your great content.
You just preset it so when you weld it pulls to square. Or you can use a piece of rhs in a similar way clamping the plates to the outside faces I'm a boilermaker who was lucky enough to be taught by guys that worked on the snowy river scheme and was taught 'real oldschool'. These guys welded with electrodes they used to make themselves. Dipping a length of wire into a bucket of slip which was the flux and then letting them dry before using them, and 4111's cellulose electrodes, the real firesticks. A long 1" strip of treated paper wrapped around a piece of wire.
John - Thank you for a very well done video. I live in Saskatchewan Canada where we have winter with temperature that can drop to minus 35 celsius or lower, for 5 months of the years and then the other seasons with summer temperatures than can reach well into the plus 30 Celsius range. All vehicle brands, sold in Canada consider this to fall into the severe service end of the scale, and so have a more frequent service schedule published in their manuals, and for good reasons. Having worked for the local Honda dealer service department for 13 1/2 years, I was always astounded to hear customers decline recommended services, especially baffling when those services were coming from the dashboard display. We could explain to them how the ‘maintainence minder’ system worked and what parameters it used, yet for many, the declining of those services would still occur. This of course would be noted in their service history as well as be visible on their work order. Common issues were overfilling of fuel tanks, so that the evap canister wold eventually become contaminated with excess fuel, triggering a check engine light. Explaining to clients why not to continue doing what they were doing still fell on deaf ears. Brake servicing (pulling apart calipers to clean and lubricate sliders, or clean drum brake adjusting systems) was another common item to be declined. With the wonderful summer dust we have, and then winter salts used on the snow covered roadways, brake calipers would eventually seize on sliders and as you well know, cause brake, expensive services, to happen. It would also happen that people would come in with 60% oil life remaining and wanting to have an oil change done, as it had been a while since the last change. Our service advisors were instructed to explain to customers that they should consider following the maintainence minder recommendations, as Honda designed it, made the engine, and were not likely to set the system up so that a customer could follow it, and sustain engine damage. This bothered me a little until I realized that our service advisors were asking the customers and checking service records (if we had them) when the last time was that they had had the oil changed. If the time period was excessive then the oil change was recommended. I’d just like to re-iterate that I appreciated the approach you took when explaining your thoughts on the Hyundai customer who experienced the timing chain failure and the unwillingness of the dealer to provide assistance.
This is a really interesting post! In Australia we don't get snow or such maybe swings in temperature. Our lowest here in Melbourne would be maybe 2c and our highest maybe 43 or so.
Here in the USA, I've serviced my direct fuel injected 2012 Mazda 3 every 5,000 miles. Car now has 316,000 miles (nearly 510,000 km) on the odometer. Only engine issue occurred near 75,000 miles when the intake valves carboned up. Dealer removed the carbon ($900), and updated the ECM. No other engine issues since. You're right on, regular service pays!
In 2017 Hyundai Australia told me each dealership decides if it wants to honour warranty and look into disputes involving said dealership. HA said they only paid the bill and could pull warranty claims and refuse them. I hope that this method has changed, it clearly did not work for Holden.
A friend has a 2012 Boss 302. He told me last weekend while we were teaching Automotive Maintenance merit badge that he only changes his oil every two years (!!!!) because he drives it so little. I told him that I change the oil in the ST every 6 months when I change out the winter tires. His notion is that the high grade synthetic oil additive package he uses will last 24 months. I would never try that on mine.
This happened to me. I had difficulty getting my Hyundai IX35 serviced during the pandemic, I was pretty good with annual services prior to that, but a year out of warranty the timing chain failed, and the exact issue you describe happened with the valves being destroyed. The mechanic I happened to break down next to, couldn't source a new engine and managed to rebuild it. I've already traded it in. Now I need to convince my wife to get her Prius C serviced...
I'm in agreement that 12 month intervals are about as long as you would ever go, and even then only for ideal running conditions (which let's face it, almost no cars operate under). Most new car buyers just have no clue about the impact their driving style and conditions have.
Your telling me a vehicle with 6000mile intervals and synthetic oil that burns no oil between changes driven 5000 miles per year, needs an oil change. It will get one but no way that oil has lost its protection.
@@graywind4326 it's not just about the ability of the oil to lubricate, it's also about the ability to keep the generation of sludge down, keep the levels of fuel dilution oil down, getting the chance to keep valves clean from carbon (especially for direct injection motors), getting the chance to keep fuel injection systems clean, keeping carbon buildup in crankcase ventilation systems in check, getting the chance to change wiper blades, checking the condition of consumables like filters and brakes, checking tyre wear and alignment, looking for suspension wear etc.
@@virangaabeywickrema3901 agreed, I am just saying the car sitting and not being driven more than the recommended interval in a year, means once a year oil change is fine. Not every 6 months if you don’t hit the 6000 miles interval.
John, who would be responsible if an expensive problem arose that would normally be covered by warranty because the dealer was not able to fit a car in for service? Recently, I rang the dealer to book my 2019 Nline in for a 50k km service and was told that I would have to wait for three weeks due to lack of staff. Would I be expected to park the car up when it reaches the service kilometres or do I keep driving?
Another long-term mechanic here, yes Iv'e seen my fair share of catastrophic failures due to interference fit engines. What had always stymied me from a design aspect was the belt/chain/gear methods of valve actuation. In my opinion valve actuation should have long since been driven solely by gears. I think it's a purposeful choice of cheaper systems fully known to "not lasting", a case of "planned" failure.
In the US many Hyundai and Kia engines are failing prematurely,some being recalled. Maybe this is because the engines are different to Aussie vehicles or maybe Oz vehicles have Korean built engines that might be better quality.
I would not be surprised at all if your statement is true. Some people in the US would actually prefer their truck made in Mexico versus here. The factory workers here are notorious.
John, I enjoy your videos from the US. As a semi-retired engineer, who performs all the basic maintenance on my car and my wife's car myself, you are spot on. I never let my service intervals for oil changes go past 5,000 miles, 8000km. Oil, gear lube & transmission fluid is cheap to extend the life of your vehicles. Keep up the great work. My wife & I hope to visit your beautiful country soon.
For most of my life I drove second hand cars that I spent less than £2000 on in todays money, so servicing was self-done and somewhat ad-hoc. Generally I was lucky, and cars back then being simpler affairs and being mechanically enclined I didn't really have too many problems. Some of my cars ended their relationship with me on a trip to the scrap yard but those I had for 5-10 years and the rest I sold on when I got bored or it proved to be a lemon from the outset. The more decent cars I had in my latter years (when I grew tired of lying on the ground replacing things!) I got serviced according to the schedule, and often I would put in an extra oil change service and inspection before winter and those cars I never had any problems with. The extra oil change wasn't expensive, and knowing that someone's had a good look at everything when you go into the shitty part of the year was reassuring. And when it came to selling on the cars I they sold easily for a good price, so I gained there without significantly increasing my servicing cots, and on a few occasions faults were detected that probably would have seen me standing in the snow waiting for recovery, or having a failure that would be far more expensive to fix. I'm not boasting here, I definitely could have treated my cars better than I did, but I did (eventually) learn that preventative maintenance is worth it both in a cost and time basis, because your car never goes wrong when you're not going to be needing it for a few weeks....
Agree with your analysis on this occasion but Kia and Hyundai have had a recall for their vehicles fitted with the 2.4 theta engine.Sons Optima with this engine was recalled back to the dealer where they listened for knocking coming from the engine that indicates a failing big end bearing that has been deprived of oil by swarf left in the engine during manufacture blocking the oil gallery supplying the bearing with engine oil.
I couldn't count the litres of oil and multitude of filters I've bought for vehicles, both 2 and 4 wheeled, over the years. But I do still vividly remember the two engines I catastrophically seized. One down to the slippery stuff not being slippery enough, the second being it's absence in the required quantity. Ah, the days of youth, with both engines martyred in pursuit of a very different kind of "servicing "...
If you do the sums, old mate was one full service behind when the timing chain went. No wonder Hyundai weren't in a position to help him. Somehow I don't think he'll be repeating that mistake.
I had a friend with a mitsubishi - 4G63 engine - it had an oil and compression problem on number 3 - he fitted a hotter spark-plug to keep it burnt-clean of oil. But even so - he theorised - that keeping the oil level low helped it to Not-misfire. He wasn't happy unless the oil-pressure warning-light was occasionally flashing. Drove it like that for 14 months. On the very day he headed out to put in a 4G64 . . . all that camshaft drag finally 'won': the timing belt gave up.
Working in mining, I have taken the habit of doing pre start check with my car , once a week in normal times, daily when in the bush (on board TPMS help with pressure ). Too many car users don’t seem to bother to look at their cars in between services : lights, tyre pressure, fluids (not only windscreen fluid) , dirty air vents or radiators …. Seem that users expect nothing to happen between services , that next visit will sort everything out …
Who is responsible if you book a service 2000km out from your scheduled interval but by the time the dealer can get you in you are 1500km over? I get oil and filter changes at half the service interval anyway and run around 25-30,000km.yr for work so oil and time are within spec but trying to get booked in in any reliable way is pretty hit and miss.
If you keep records of when you made the booking, that should help. These days most makes/dealers have online bookings, thus making it very easy to retain evidence. If you make a booking via phone, make a diary note and cross-reference it with the dealer's phone number on your mobile bill/call history. A bit trickier than online booking, but it's still something that can confirm when the booking was made.
My good old WJ Jeep 4.7 V8, I change the oil and filter at 5000km or 6 months without fail. The engine is still perfect and does not use oil at 210,000km on the clock.
Get our "main" cars serviced every 6 months (2016 I30 SR, 2017 Santa Fe). The I30 goes to my mates shop, the Santa Fe is still with dealer (main services are free while in warranty). Once warranty is over though, it will be going to the same place as my I30.
1. I have also purchased my i30 after a long time of documentation, including your videos and one line I still remember was "I know what poverty pack is and this isn't it" when talking about the base model. I now have an I30 "Highway" 1.5 T-GDI 160ps with a manual. The Highway trim level is right in the middle. 2. I read the terms and conditions of the warranty and you are allowed to go over the km and time by 1000KM of 1 month so, even the 15000 km and a bit I would say are ok. At least this is the case in EU, where I'm from.
This is all a matter of chemistry. What manufacturers have done is increase the oil volume. A 202 Holden had an oil volume of about 4 litres and a chance requirement of 2,500 km. Everything fitted together like a boot in a bucket. Moving forward 50 years with CNC, the tolerances have become finer over the old cam-operated machining used for mass production. Oil chemistry has improved so service intervals have increased because of the aforementioned improvements. I had someone come to me with a 2009 V6 MPI petrol Rodeo who believes that servicing his ute involved waiting till the dipstick becomes too short (the oil is no longer apparent) and then adding oil. The vehicle blows smoke at 176530 km (on the odometer). He has the heads done about 18 months ago and it now has a knock louder than a mad judge and his gavel. A bore scope inspection of the pistons shows enough carbon to open a coal mine. The whole engine requires either replacing or rebuilding. Hence John's really good advice. On a side note, I read a few months ago that Captain Number 1 mediocrity allegedlyvincreased it's service interval in the USA from 10,000 miles to 15,000 miles a couple of years ago and now all the vehicles reaching 100,000 miles are blowing smoke because the engines are stuffed. If I remember correctly, there a class action brewing..
Time in my case with an annual service. Always quick and painless with Subaru even during Covid times. Wear a mask at the dealership and the car was washed down before the service people worked on it. Cutting corners with servicing is just such a false economy.
My car is serviced every year, even though 22 year's old and 150,000 Kim, it's expensive but it requires a warrant of certificate as well which is extremely strict here in sheepshsgastan.
I agree with you John, Hyundai are not at fault here. Remnants of the combusted diesel fuel turn to soot and when it moves past the piston rings it ends up in the engine's crankcase sump oil pan area, where the engine oil is stored, Not getting your service done on or before your time could prove to be catastrophic.
Hyundai gdi engines honestly should have their oil changed every 3000 to 3500 because they produce so much soot in oil..do this ant they seem to do just fine .if you don't do regular maintenance on these little engines you'll be sorry .the reason for the soot in the oil is because of the low tension piston rings also if you short trip them every day gasoline dilutes the oil..
how is it that a 530hp BMW service interval is 2 years 30,000ks? in New Zealand all the BMW cars are service interval 2 years 30,000kms! planned obsolescence?
Do I enjoy paying for 4 services in the less than 2 years I’ve owned my car? No. But I suspect I’d enjoy paying for a new engine in my Stinger even less!
Just found this video after our KIA Sorento engine has failed and dealing with KIA. It is being refused a repair / new engine as the dealer did a minor service 3000 miles before the oil needed changing. We were not told to get the oil changed. A year later the engine failed 18 miles after its major service but 10000 miles after the oil should have been changed. Might need to take KIA and dealerships to court.
Hmmm, we have had 7 cars in total, all 6 VAG diesel engine, 1 petrol and doing only one oil change per 25.000-30.000km (longlife) service in Europe. All cars are doing now up to 300.000km, without ANY issues and I know a lot of people which have even more, like 500.000km driving 1000-2000km per week and have no problems. Thats why I never know why does Hyundai want me to change the oil every 10.000km. People say, because of warranty, but yes thats one way to look at it, the other way is, what if Hyundai is "not sure" that the engine can last long without such a high frequency oil changes. Because of that I am scared, that hyundai engines are very sensitive and sometimes I change the oil even after 5000km, just to be sure. On the other hand, I was changing the spark plugs on my VAG every 25.000km, but Hyundai is saying that every 75.000km is enough. Hmmm.
Agree with you on the long-life intervals. There are a lot of internet mechanics who "feel that" 25 or 30 k is too long and that ow20 oil is too thin, but I'll trust the manufacturer's knowledge over their data-free instincts. Likewise Volvo have 30 k / 1 year intervals, and no problems whatsoever - obviously it's essential to use top quality oil rather than cheaping out, but despite the internet mechanics' predictions, amazingly there isn't an epidemic of VW, Volvo etc. engines breaking down due to those intervals. If Hyundai specifies 10,000 km oil changes, that seems very short indeed - makes you wonder about the durability of those engines.
I serviced my 1.0 liter Fiesta up until 5 years. Did mostly my own oil changes in between and at 146k ( Ford says 240k i might add) i did a timingbelt and 15% of the teeth we're gone and 1 tooth from disaster and clogged oil pickup.. So hmm i did a lot of extra oilchanges and non of it really helped. But one should keep up on atleast oilchanges because of dilution, as a common issue with Di engines - and if you have a wet belt like mine be even more carefull..
The problem is that most people think that because it is a brand new vehicle that the engine will not use any oil but that is far from the truth. Check all the fluids at least once a week, oil, coolant and brake fluid levels. Then tyre pressure and condition and get the service done before it is due. 500 bucks is a lot less than 25000 bucks.
Both myself and the wife have a couple of Hyundai cars, the wife car is a 2014 i30 with now 76,000Kms and is sutch a good little car that when iwas looking for a replacement for my own AU ford ( with 115,000 Kms ) on the clock and was written off after i had a argument with the retaining wires on the highway out of Launcestion. This car was written off due to cost of the repairs. But looking for a replacement car and after another reliable car for my self, i chose on a 2017 Hyundai Elantra with 31,500 Kms. This uses the same drive train as the i30. I have only had that car for a few months. Both cars are quiet, cheap to run and my Elantra averages around 6.0 Ltr/100 Kms . I'm over the moon with the fuel consumption with both cars. As for servicing and over the years all of our cars ( we also have a 1995 Pajero diesel with 280,000 Kms and is mainly used to pull our caravan around Tasmania with ) have have a full service, oil, filter and a safty inspection every 12 months. Yes, it costs a little bit, BUT, cheaper than replacing a engine or buying another car. The Pajero just had a injector pump and injectors replaced, alone with the harmonic balancer at the same time, cost for that was north of $4100.00. My wife and myself are now both on the aged pension and checking the wife's car that we have had for now now on 19 months, so not high mileage !!. My own car the Elantra and that was bought in August 2022 and only now have chalked up a further 2000 Kms.
thank you for explaining that I will be sure to get my car serviced on time it will be time as I don't drive the km but will keep up with the services thanks john
My 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer coupled with a CVT gearbox. I now have 460,000, still original engine and CVT, original timing chain, original starter motor. Only Radiator and Alternator has been replaced along with the usual wear and tear parts. Why has it lasted so long? Servicing, and yes a lot of freeway driving helps and not thrashing it all the time. And the 4B11 motor is well balanced.
Drivers who do high kms is not always a bad thing, Most engine damage is done on cold start up because it takes say a second for oil to reach the top of the engine. Long HOT running means that the engine is being lubricated ALL the time it is running!! With ANY modern vehicle NOT servicing it correctly is the WORST thing you can do to it!!!! I have heard the Late model Mazda Sky Active engines are very sensitive to being NOT serviced properly ( i could be wrong ). As for Brendon blown up Hyundai engine, i think personally i would for a Good used 2nd hand engine a rebuild of the original will COST BIG!!!!!!!!!
I’ve done the full scientific engine oil sample analysis with a Shell Engineer with a customer wanting to move from 250 hour engine oil changes to 500 hour intervals on large mining trucks. Result? Oil has come a long long long way But everything important in oil was disappearing at around the 350-400 hour mark. And contaminants were increasing. Would u believe an accountant if they walked up you and told you your oil viscosity is wrong? No So don’t take service schedules as the very best treatment or even acceptable for your car coz they are manipulated by the same “professionals”
Hi John, I 100% agree with you on servicing as a mechanic myself. I remember my grandfather who was a mechanic himself saying oil and filters are cheap engines ain't! As regards warranty I wonder how I would fair against a car manufacturer seeing as I service my car myself. I have a 2014 Renault Fluence 1.5 diesel with an auto gearbox as my daily driver. I have a 1998 Toyota Landcruiser 3.0 Turbo diesel which I use at the weekend. Regards, Barry.
Also filters are made with a paper element & brake and clutch fluid absorbers water causing rust and low heat stability, coolants degrade causing alloys to corrode and head gaskets to fail etc etc.
It's incredibly satisfying to weld something up and have it distort just perfectly the right amount to get it dead nuts square (without the use of fixturing).
My 2017 Megane petrol has a 18000 mile or 24 months service schedule from Renault, i service it every 6 months or 4000 miles. I don't care what the manufacturer says is ok, oil is cheap and engines are not. One other thought to hang on to, being a garage owner and repairing cars for a living i wish i got £1 for every car that an owner comes in with and says can you top up the oil as the light has come on. It's hard to remain calm and explain that's not advising to top up oil, it's saying that the oil pressure is f*cking too low because there's no oil in it.
ex hyundai/kia mechanic. while there were some problems that arose, with the 2012-16ish i30 engine block, and the i40 fuel pump leaking into the engine. (poor fuel pump not engine) and some newer one suffering cam faults. there were really good, especially the diesels. most total failures were due to poor servicing, or lack of use and the engines getting full of sludge. the worse being a petrol v6 carnival that the mums use to putt around for the school run. never got worked hard or serviced enough. the turbo i30 1.6 were really good. my advice to people is do not be afraid to rev the car out at times, and go for long drives if you mainly do short drives. watch all the water and black smoke come out the exhaust when you rev. rotten egg smell is a clue you are building up crap in the exhaust and it need to get hot.
I drive a WRX and my wife drives an Impreza. I change the oil every 3,000 miles on both, full synthetic, in spite of the 5,000 mile recommendation. I’ll pay a little more for oil in the long run, but well maintained, unmodified Subies can last a long time.
Loved your metalworking segment John. Not sure about the good enough maxim. I always taught my students never to settle for second best but only ever you best, whatever that may be. In other words if you strive for perfection you are more likely to improve. My wife recently drove a brand new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid for a public agency in regional Australia which covered around 500ks per day from day 1. By the time the local service agent was able to book it in for it's first service it had done nearly 20000ks. In Australia, and I believe many countries overseas, there is a major shortage of qualified service techs. We are waiting around 6 weeks to get cars booked in so it makes it a real balancing act to keep within the stipulated limits. Makes purchasing second hand and obtaining accurate service history really critical.
I guess I am old, but I use time or mileage (USA), which ever comes first. My wife drives 1.2 miles to work. I have to assume her oil is full of water! So she gets an oil change every Spring and Fall. My car hits the mileage limit first. I always use the Severe Service guidelines since I don't think I have ever met a person who drives "Normal." For the record, my 2011 Genesis Coupe 2.0T was the best car I ever owned. I traded it with over 134k miles and at 11 years. The engine still ran like a top with no significant oil use. My wife had an Elantra for over 7 years. Another good car. In both cases I was the mechanic. She now owns a Genesis and I have a Veloster N which I drive like a spoiled teenager. Our daughter owns a new Tucson hybrid. We have had very good luck and service from our Hyundai cars...but I am very aggressive with servicing. We traded a Honda with over 175k miles and it ran like a jewel too.
Well first guy with i30 , only things that are KLM or time are brake fluid, coolant an engine oil, all the rest are KLms IE -air filters, spark plugs etc Plugs are good for 40 000klms anyday for normal drive conditions
In the 45 years I spent in the automotive repair, almost every vehicle that had a engine failure, outside of warrant, had not changed the oil on time. One that comes to mind seized the camshaft it the cylinder head twice. The second time he hadn't changed the oil since I did it when I repaired it the last time. He had traveled over 20thousand miles on dyno oil.
The dealers should have switched the 5w30 to 15w40 Rotel the day they hit the lot. The 5w30 was mandated to meet the emissions requirements. I was given that tip by a seasoned Hyundai shop tech, I followed his device, turbo charged engines don't need 5w oil, I could be wrong tho.
It's interesting that this video comes up in my feed at this time, and raises a question re the servicing schedule. We own 2x 2017 Ford Escapes. One is a Trend, and the more (very) recent is a Titanium. After the purchase of the latter, we found out it was imported (don't get me started on that) from over the ditch by it's original owner when they chose sunshine over long white clouds. The scheduled service interval for our Aussie badged Trend is 12/15000, whereas it's kiwi cousin is 12/20000. Mechanically, these are the same vehicle (2.0DT + AWD), so why the difference in the log books? Another fun fact, when Ford Austraya started servicing the Titanium, they started noting next services at the 12/15000 interval.
Hay got a good idea for the dude put a Holden 186 red motor in the hundi. Then you'll never have to service it , just put a bit of oil in it when the oil pressure light comes on when going around a corner and it will still do 350000 thousand miles like my old ht .
John, I’d one day love to hear your thoughts on the Jordan Shanks’s home fires. I understand it’s probably a bit too early in the peace now, and this has a long way to go, but one day.
I am wondering about EV servicing. If you look at the report all they have done is look at the car. If a service is missed how can it affect warranty given that nothing has been replaced or adjusted. Meaning that not having someone look at the car would not cause a failure.
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Hello John, I am an owner of a 2021 shit box Hilux with the 2.8 diesel turbo, my question to you is can I change oil at 6 month intervals without farking up dpf performance ?
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Mr Cadogan, in my time working as a design engineer in the automotive industry (almost exclusively electronics), some of the mechanical design engineers brought to my attention some issues with short trips regarding several factors that I'm guessing you know but did not mention. 1 the engines are designed to run with clearances set to their running temperature or as close as can be done without the engine ceasing on a cold day. This of course means something stupid like 75-80% of the wear and tear occurs when the engine is getting up to temperature on runs between 2km and 30km. The other one some people do not seem to understand is that water is a combustion product. Therefore it will get into the oil. At running temperature for most cars this is got rid of (through the breather tubes) on a fairly regular basis as long as the engine is running for half an hour or more a couple of times per week. If it's all short journeys then the oil gets contaminated surprisingly quickly. So your 6 months for n oil change advice was spot on.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Can you ask your mechanical design engineers why they don't / won't design an engine that has helical drive gears instead of a timing chain, is it because of cost to design or is it better to stay the way it is now and just wait until the chain and guides wear out............after all better for the bottom line, selling spares and charging like wounded bulls for the repair..........................I think maybe the latter
Hi John. I’m a mechanic at a Hyundai dealership. But have worked at a number of other dealerships as well. I unfortunately see this all the time. People just don’t want to get their cars serviced on time. As well as oil degradation the level can drop over time. And if there isn’t enough oil in the sump for the pickup to lubricate the top end. Valves, cams etc. Then the engine will form sludge in the top end and eventually engine failure is the result. I had a six year old I30 in for its 4th service. Two services behind schedule. And another car was two years overdue for it’s service. People just don’t care until they find out an engine is anywhere from $10000 to $20000 and higher. Keep up the good work John.
Yes I once had an old Holden and my father who was an engineer suggested I check the oil and water level every morning on my touring holidays. This I did for every car I owned since then, I carry the right oil and top it up if necessary, I also carried some distilled water if the coolant level drops. I only used tap water on the iron Holden 186.
Shouldn’t folks be checking their oil levels between services too? Doesn’t that help if they top it off to required levels? Cheers.
I have had 2 cars now that had 15,000km service intervals, which to me seems too long. While those cars were under warranty I got them serviced at the dealer on time according to the scheduled interval (time or distance) however once out of warranty I would perform my own oil and filter change at 7,500 then take it to a mechanic for the scheduled 15,000/12mth log book service. Reason I didn't do it while under warranty is out of concern that the warranty could be void from me, who is not a qualified mechanic, performing an additional oil and filter change. From a dealership mechanic perspective is that concern valid?
@@lukeclemo3659 yeah mate. They should. But people don’t even bother filling the washer bottle or put air in their tyres. I’m pretty sure most people wouldn’t know where the oil cap is.
@@mootazz while the vehicle is in warranty any documented work must be done by a qualified mechanic. But there is no problem doing more frequent oil changes. Better safe than sorry.
I am a retired mechanic and my observation of things mechanical, especially motor vehicles, goes back to the late 1960s. Back then services were frequent for many reasons and not just the lower standards of lubricants. Many vehicles still had to have certain joints greased to lessen wear as metals were not as advanced and clutches and brakes did not last as long as they do now either but over the course of the 1970s and into the 1980s I did notice a marked improvement in all these areas. One area did buck the trend though and that was in the drive of the overhead camshaft. Most of the product I worked on was Japanese and the ones that used duplex timing chains and robust sprockets and guides generally had no issues even when servicing was less than optimal but then the bean counters got involved and some manufacturers went from duplex to single row and bang, instant problems due to stretching. But then the rubber timing belt became the norm and I have to say that if they were maintained as per schedule they performed quite well but if they were not then it was a one-way trip to piston destruction unless you were lucky enough to have a non-interference valve train design. Belt drive was cheaper for the manufacturer and on the whole, it reduced engine weight but once twin cams became the norm belt loading went up quite a bit, and in the case of the V6 layout it was doubly bad. So some manufacturers went back to chains but because the component weight was far more important now and the bean counters were even more prevalent the chains were single row and even though they were made of better stuff they still stretched and the less robust sprockets wore more quickly and the grides did as well. So when you added overdue servicing to the equation we are back to a part that should be reliable enough for the life of the engine failing dismally. You often hear the term "that xxxxx was over-engineered and it lasts forever" and in many older vehicles there was some truth in that but in the modern vehicle that is no longer the case because "over-engineering" adds weight and cost. This all goes to making your oil changes so much more important in modern vehicles because more components operate closer to their stress-loading limits.
I'm one of the few people who prefers a timing belt over a chain because I like to keep my cars in the best condition possible at all times. On my 05 Civic with the belt driven D17, I can get a new OEM timing belt, water pump, and tensioner for about $250, change it in a couple hours, and forget about it for another 7 years. But on my K24 swapped 04 Civic, an OEM timing set with both chains, tensioners, sprockets, guides, etc is over $1000 just in parts and would be significantly more difficult and time consuming to replace than a belt. It's also much harder to decide when it's time to change it due to the significantly higher cost and amount of work required and "when it fails" definitely isn't the answer, especially on an interference engine. But as bad as people are about maintenance, I understand why timing belts went away.
As my engine has a timing chain, to replace the head gasket I have to strip the entire engine apart. That involved too many parts that had to be replaced, rendering the car uneconomic to repair. So now the entire car is scrap. Such a bad design, if it had a cambelt, I could have done the gasket for a small cost.
@@MattBrownbill Good point, that's the other reason I prefer belts over chains. I think chains are generally better for the average soccer mom/dad who doesn't know they have to change the belt every 7 years or whatever since they typically last longer than a belt when both are ignored, but chains certainly have their downsides too and it's not like they never have problems because they do. The way I see it, which is "better" depends on whether you want something you know you can plan on replacing every once in a while but is highly repairable for cheap and very reliable if maintained (a belt) or whether you prefer to have something that's expected to last longer, but roll the dice and either likely end up destroying the engine if/when it fails or spend a fortune and go through a lot of work changing the entire timing set before it fails whenever you see fit (chain).
@@averyalexander2303 unfortunately a cam-belt change is a big enough bill to impact on the value of the car. I know people who have sold cars cheap, rather than stump up the money. Car designers seemed to have been told to package everything as cheaply as possible, at the expense of ease of maintenance. Making so many jobs, that used to be trivial, uneconomical.
@@averyalexander2303 I drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla (200'000 kilometres on the odometer) and our other car is a 2010 Toyota Yaris (170'000 kilometres on the odometer). Those two engines are with the timing chain. I religiously maintain both cars. New oil and oil filter every 5'000 kilometres maximum or every three months, whichever comes first. It would be probably very expensive if I wouldn't do it myself. I'm not expecting timing chain failure any time soon and I don't even know anybody who had timing chain failure on Toyota or Lexus vehicles although I personally know many people who own one of those vehicles. The timing chain is lubricated with engine oil so it is important to do proper maintenance. Of course, plastic timing chain guides or even tensioners could fail but I believe that my engines are non-interference engines. One day I'm going to replace those parts before they even fail.
John as an independent mechanic I advise my customers to service their cars every 6 months of 10,000ks. Even if you don’t drive very far. Rubber parts breakdown & wear out with age. I do not agree with pushing intervals out to 12 months or 20,000ks as some manufacturers do. Anyone who complains about servicing intervals I always tell them services are cheap engines & transmissions are not. All modern cars post 1980 or so are very highly tuned & need regular maintenance. Keeping your oil clean & also your air filter will help in the long run. Dirty oil & air filters cause many many problems.
Totally agreed mate. Minimum standard of maintenance is: What the manufacturer requires...
No harm in doing it, just going to cost you more money.
Considering cars are going hundreds of thousands kilometres doing the service intervals without problems.
Most problems come from electronic parts and plastic failing, no amount of oil is going to change that.
💯 %Oil and filter every 5000k. Oil and filter changes are cheaper than an engine replacement. 👍😎🇦🇺🍻
@@AutoExpertJC especially given they have requirements for extra servicing under lots of conditions, yes follow the manufacturer fine print.
@@AutoExpertJC Go beyond what they require, if your transmission is "sealed for life" change its oil, it'll prolong the life of the tranny.
Gotta say, my 2007 200KM bomb of an Aurion got a warranty job last month from Toyota after it started pumping lines of oil onto the road.
Got to love it when it has a recall on the problem (oil cooler pipe in this case).
Was pretty chuffed for a 15 yo car.
That's something that doesn't happen much for a car that age.
My i30 is a 15000km service interval car. I do high kilometres. Pro-tip for high kilometre drivers: when the 15k car hits 10k - book the service. It’s amazing how quickly that last 5000km can tick over. Don’t wait till 14k, you’ll always go over the limit with time and the mechanic or dealer may not have the slot available.
Interestingly enough, I owned a Honda Accord (1985 or so) which I bought from new and, for a number of reasons, probably only had the oil changed at 20,000Km intervals for much of its 300,000Km lifetime. One interval would have been closer to 40,000Km. However, I did use good quality synthetic oil. When it was retired (after the wife rolled it into a paddock just down the road) I stripped the engine and was gobsmacked that there was so little wear inside.
All I can draw from this is that if you have *really* good engineering and metalurgy combined with the best quality oils then you have a *lot* more lattitude when it comes to oil changes than when you use cheaper oil (as many dealers/garages do) and engines that are built "to a price".
I've never had a major (engine) mechanical failure with Honda or Toyota despite them being ridden hard and put away wet on far too many occasions.
Petrol engines vs diesel with dpf make's a difference to oil qaulity too.
Synthetic oil never breaks down, you could change it at 100,000klm and it's still good.
The problem is it gets dirty, that's the only reason for changing it
@@zagan1 oil additive packs degrade and are depleted, viscosity enhancers ( engineered tiny pieces of temperature reactive polymers) also degrade/ shear. So yes the oil does not wear out, but the protective properties alter markedly over time
What viscosity oil did you use in the accord?
@@daveroski From memory it was Mobil 1 15W50. This was a pre-VTEC engine so a higher viscosity oil didn't affect things and a lot of the Kms were commute journeys of about 80Km (50 miles) so the engine was running at optimal temperature for most of its life.
I like Hyundais and generally think they are good cars. It is well known though that the GD 1.8 and 2.0 engines were known for a design floor that produced piston slap due to bore and piston wear. There are lots of videos online of them being stripped down and I had one myself. It was Sold to us by a Hyundai dealer at 120,000kms. They quite likely knew about it because they warmed it up before they let us test drive it. By 150,000kms it had changed from a tappet type noise to sounding like the engine was full of 10c pieces and even had a slight knock. We were contacted by lawyers asking if we had had these symptoms, so obviously this is not an isolated incident.
I'm making this comment from probably the first 30 or 40 seconds in. Here's why you should get your car serviced often. Because it extends the life of your vehicle.
If your vehicle and or tool or whatever you use is very well maintained and of a high build quality, even if it is rarely used, it will last a very long time.
My wife (and I've made this same comment probably 4 million times now) has a 2013 diesel Santa Fe. We have it serviced 6 months /7500km or whichever comes first (always time). My wife drives 6km to, and 6km from work, every day.
The handbook for this vehicle mentions frequent short trips as condition A (or B or C or D or something, and the extra requirements for this is halving the advertised service interval. It's in the book.
It's in the bloody book.
Exactly! We have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe V6 . It was my wife's dad's car and has 245,000 km. We only do maybe 6,000 a year of that. I change the oil every 6 months. My old Falcon the same. 20yo. No oil or coolant losss👍
Our motor mechanics teacher at highschool in 90's, an ex race mechanic, always preached to us teens 'change your oil at half interval and you'l never have an issue, its cheap insurance'. Done this with all my cars both motor and trans, and never had any issues even with heavy footed driving and regular trips to the drag stip for fun. Seriously, look out for oil on special, reguarly goes on half price, $10 filter, twice a year, its not that costly - hold onto receipts and helps resale big time.
Always get my 2018 Kia Carnival serviced every 7500km, does average km a year, but was recommended by a trusted mechanic as it extends the longevity of the engine over the life of the car, have done it to my 09 Hyundai Imax even though I service it myself these days and is pushing 240k km with no engine issues yet.
About servicing your car it needs to be done by the book or early-ish depending on your tipe of driving. My neighbor has a ford van in UK. 4 years old and a bit over 100k miles and out of warranty. Timing belt or chain broke so catastrophic failure. The service schedule for timing belt or chain was 150k miles or 10 years. He went back to the ford garage where he was servicing the van by the manufacturer schedule. No question asked, the dealership changed the engine with a brand new engine.
All of us engineers and mechanics may have slightly different opinions on service intervals, and nuances of when to service based on driving, but we all are saying that service must be performed to prolong the life of engines, transmissions and so forth. My personal opinion is to perform and oil change service every 5-6k miles (8-10k km) or every 6-8 months, using a quality synthetic oil and OEM filter, which one could argue that I could go longer between services, but the results of my service interval and recommendation speak for themselves, my 2012 Honda Odyssey with 155k miles (250k km) has been serviced my way since I purchased it over 4 years ago, and what I found when performing the valve clearance adjustment is that the engine internals are still very clean, a small amount a varnish, absolutely no sludge, also the engine doesn’t consume oil excessively like many other modern engines do, it may use 1L in the 5000 mile interval. But this idea that modern cars don’t need service is encouraged by manufacturers in my opinion, and much of the driving public believes that these machines are magic boxes that just need fuel, so now reliability reports can be skewed to be poor, when that shouldn’t be the case, because many manufacturers have improved their product in many ways, but if their customer base doesn’t care for it as they should we all see what happens.
My brother has a ford ranger and would get it serviced when he felt like it. One new engine later he services it religiously.
In 1979 my friend had a timing chain break on his 3rd series Land Rover on the gravel road between Bourke and Cobar. I waited with the vehicle whist the driver hitched to Bourke and got a tow truck.
I am grateful to the gentleman who stopped and gave me half a cold bottle of coke whilst I waited.
We stayed 3 days or so waiting for it to be fixed, we were lucky all it needed was just the timing chain to be replaced.
I has a passbook with the Vic States Savings Bank and I wanted to withdraw more than the max limit and the bank in Bourke had to call my home branch in Melbourne and charged me something like $5 for the phone call.
I have a kia of the same age and same ks. I would say old mate's timing chain did really well to survive so long with service intervals up to and over 20 thousand ks... i get mine done every 10k and it's still ticking along like new.
My 2018 Santa Fe 2.2 D has only done 13000 ks. I have had two electrical warranty repairs done. The dealer at North Lakes QLD has serviced it from new. No dramas getting it fixed. They know me by name. 10/10 for customer service.
I think most experiences are like that, across most brands.
My Genesis GV70 2.2D diesel is hands down the best passenger car diesel engine I have experienced. I have had a few. Most passengers cannot believe how quiet and smooth it is. NO turbo lag. Joy.
I change the oil myself between services at 7.5K’s . Service intervals at 15K’s is just too long for a business vehicle that is constantly on the road.
As for me... I'm nearly 62 and paying $40,000 for a new Kia, a freaking lot of money on a single wage.
I will bow down to the Kia god and have my car serviced religiously.
It ain't a $500 mower used and abused and expected to sing and dance on a Sunday.
Will be doing what Scotty K and the Car Wizard preach and probably halve the oil change times as well, receipts kept of course.
Cars like a marriage, a commitment a contract and a cancer if not maintained.
Intermediate change is a great idea - especially if you don't drive much.
My $500 mower cost $1000 about 15 years ago. It's probably done half the hours that my cars have in that time and, I'm not joking. I change the oil annually and clean/replace the filter when I think about it. The carby has been off once for a thorough de gunking and the thing runs like new.
Lawnmowers are like marriage. You don't want to get caught cutting your neighbour'
s grass.
I'm 50/50 on this issue. I over service on the km metric but under-service on time metric, despite what "they" say.
Modern service intervals are too long due to competition in the marketplace on this metric, and a number of known faults are simply fixed by voluntary shorter intervals. E.g. Toyota 2AZFE oil capillaries in pistons block up with long (but compliant) intervals, causing oil consumption and overheating.
I do all the minor servicing myself, use mechanics for major stuff like timing belts. I try to treat my Toyota 4cyl petrol and diesels to 5,000km intervals, will stretch if it's all highway km. I use fully synthetic Penrite oils and have watched Project Farm's lubricity tests on old but unused oil. The degradation in performance was minimal, and a good quality, old, synthetic oil is still better than a new, cheap, mineral oil. So yes, with fully synthetics I will let oil and oil filter changes go long, 2 or 3 years if car is driven sparingly BUT regularly. Don't let them sit and rot. I still check and top up oil, and I still check air filters and even if they don't need it will blow them out with a compressor in the reverse direction. Some of my vehicles have/had snorkels and prefilters.
I've always had good reliability and longevity out of my vehicles.
Enjoy watching Curtis, that guy does stuff bordering on magic. And Fireball tools is a site that at times has me stunned. On the issue of service and the time/distance question. I do not think that the manufacturers are explaining the need adequately. I run on a time for service rather than a distance as my garage ornament (2002 MGTF 160) really doesn't get a lot of time on the road. I worked in TAFE and some of the maths support I had to do was with automotive. The instructors there went to great lengths to explain the degradation of oils, timing, stretch factors, brake binding and tyre flat spot problems. They talked about the nasties that sat in oils and festered away at metal surfaces because the components were not moving. They had camshaft lobes with less than 20k with holes in the hard surface. Water pumps jammed with muck that looked like red mud. Out of round wheel bearings because the car just sat and compressed the bearing. The best was from a car never driven in the rain with the wiper blades welded to the glass. I am 77 years old and remember the thousand mile service, the gearbox and diff oil change at 3,000 and 5,000 miles. S= k log W.
You are a fair man John, I have been a service manager, in a non-aligned industry. In many instances (more often than not) I would bend over backwards to give my customers the benefit of the doubt. However, on occasion people would try and pull one over on me and I felt annoyed. Some folks just do not have an inner sense of responsibility, and when that occurs, I must remind them.
There is a class action lawsuit against Hyundai/Kia for poor QC with their engines. Hyundai/Kia knew about these engine issues since 2015 and still decided to sell their vehicles with said engine defects. I wouldn't but a Hyundai or Kia at the moment. The engine issues are not related to servicing.
Great video John. I have a mate who has just learnt the hard way how costly it is not to get a car serviced. He’s owned a VW Amarok for a few years and we travel to Dingo Piss Creek a couple of times a year. In August the Amarok had a catastrophic failure going over a cattle grid. It blew a hole through the engine. It cost a fortune to get towed back to the metro area. VW inspected the car and said it would not be covered under warranty as it was over it’s required service by 1000km and the service schedule hadn’t been followed. The insurance company said they wouldn’t cover the cost to repair the vehicle as the service schedule wasn’t maintained. Now he’s left paying off a car that doesn’t work and he’s taking out a $40K loan for a new engine and gear box. Lesson learnt… get your car serviced if you want any form of support from the manufacturer or your insurance company.
Holy shit, an Amarok. Of all the vehicles to 'risk it' and not service? Geesh.
I'm a low mileage driver. However, I get my 2005 Lancer serviced every six months regardless. It's done well over 200,000 kays, well past the service maintenance intervals in the driver's handbook. Still has the original engine and auto trans. The timing belt got changed at 100,000 and 200,000 kays. Prevention is better than the cure!
Lancers are a awesome car, rarely you will see one on a tow truck
My ‘11 Sonata spun a main bearing at 140,000 miles. Since I had it ‘detuned’ for recall service they told me it had a lifetime engine warranty.
They replaced the engine for free. Good on Hyundai but I am not so sure about buying another one.
My Forester XT has 7.5k mile intervals, but I've always serviced it every 5k. Oil and filters are cheap and if you look at what is considered "extreme driving conditions" it covers almost every car. I think some of the long intervals has to do with marketing. Longer intervals means a lower cost to own.... on paper.
Longer intervals mean a shorter ultimate engine life.
I service my 3.6 outback every 5k with Mobil1. Barely burns any oil for a Sink at 50k.
Same with "lifetime" components - BMW USA years ago changed their model to cover servicing, and all of a sudden, 30,000 + was a service interval. Funny how once a manufacturer says "we'll do this for you" everything becomes a "longer lasting" component... until it breaks.
Correct! Long drain service intervals 15 000km + give owners that warm, fuzzy feeling that "this car is cheap to keep until...engine fails. Many owners also believe that gearboxes "sealed for Life" means never having to carry out a transmission flush. Wrong! Manual & auto gearboxes require lubrication to be changed from time to time.
You can service a vehicle based upon time or distance. Engine operating hours are very helpful for vehicles used in fleets. Reasoning for engine operational time records can include excessive idling, sitting on the brakes during rush hour, as well as anything that requires a running engine on the vehicle in question.
In the Hyundai community I've heard of a few cases of engines blowing up with the new Elantra N. 100% of the time these cars have been modified. Let's be honest, Hyundai for the most part has always catered to a more "frugal" person. Frugal people tend to do their own work to try and save money. Some know what they're doing, most don't. They will claim their car was totally stock and just magically exploded, then you find the old posts where they had Turbo kits and tried doing their own half-a** tuning. I find it very frustrating because I have owned a couple Hyundai's as well as the new EN, they have been great cars, I also change the oil every 5000 miles myself.
I agree in this case that the owner is out of luck. On the other hand, in North America there have been many recalls for engine issues. They appear to be related to the US engine plants which have acknowledged quality control problems. I assume that Australia spec cars are sourced from Asia.
In the US, many consider Kia (especially) and Hyundai junk. I think it’s due to most owners not servicing them. A relative of mine has an ‘04 Kia and it’s still in good shape, because it’s been maintained.
I just had a customer with a knock in their Hyundai Sonata. I asked our local Hyundai dealer to have a look and the first thing they asked for was the service history. Fortunately the customer has an immaculate service history.
The result is 100% coverage of a new engine despite being out of warranty on time.
Well done Hyundai.
Yup, my 2011 accent tranny pooped out at 115,000 km. The dealer service guy was genuinely gobsmacked. The car was serviced on time, complete docs in the bag. Hyundai put a reman in, no argument, which I now have 105,000 km on, fingers crossed. My next car will be a Hyundai. If I live that long.
Mine is due to be replaced and they will only supply the block - I gotta pay $5500 labor...plus a new $4000 CAT - Hyundai will look for reasons to deny claims (such as less than immaculate service history), even though they are WELL AWARE this is their fault - so IMO not well done Hyundai.
NEVER buying another Hyundai
They just told me they won't cover the engine for me. I have the same issue on my car and now it's junk. So so pissed off right now. They told me it would be $6,500 for a new engine. Fuck Hyundai.
@@user-jx8zw3yr1isame here. I basically got sold a car with a fked up engine. They told me it would be 6500 out of pocket for a new engine. Never EVER giving Hyundai my money ever again. What a joke of a company. Now I don't have a car.
I would ask for an itemised document of the parts they put into the vehicle; we had a warranty motor replacement done, but we've discovered that most of it was second hand parts from a wrecked car and it now runs like dogshit with all sorts of buzzing and vibration that it never used to have.
We're about to take Hyundai to the ombudsman as they've been unbelievably difficult and belligerent towards us.
I remember back before we had self-service here in the U.S., the gas station attendants while filling the tank would check the oil and transmission fluid and notify you if it was low or dirty, hoping to sell fluids or maintenance. Most people nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone check these things.
Thank you for the great videos. I appreciate the fact that you approach things from an unbiased position. My family has purchased four Hyundai or Kia vehicles over the past fifteen or twenty years and the worst thing we had go wrong was a bad alternator in a 2010 Rio (replaced under warranty). We always get the services done as required. I have heard so many horror stories, but more times than not, the services were either completely ignored or not done on time. While serving in the U.S. Air Force many years ago, I did all the oil changes myself. If you can't afford to get the required services, at least change your oil and make sure you inspect the belts. Again, thank you for your great content.
You just preset it so when you weld it pulls to square.
Or you can use a piece of rhs in a similar way clamping the plates to the outside faces
I'm a boilermaker who was lucky enough to be taught by guys that worked on the snowy river scheme and was taught 'real oldschool'.
These guys welded with electrodes they used to make themselves. Dipping a length of wire into a bucket of slip which was the flux and then letting them dry before using them, and 4111's cellulose electrodes, the real firesticks. A long 1" strip of treated paper wrapped around a piece of wire.
This.
You can use the fancy expensive fixturing, or you can just git gud and get it right.
John - Thank you for a very well done video.
I live in Saskatchewan Canada where we have winter with temperature that can drop to minus 35 celsius or lower, for 5 months of the years and then the other seasons with summer temperatures than can reach well into the plus 30 Celsius range. All vehicle brands, sold in Canada consider this to fall into the severe service end of the scale, and so have a more frequent service schedule published in their manuals, and for good reasons.
Having worked for the local Honda dealer service department for 13 1/2 years, I was always astounded to hear customers decline recommended services, especially baffling when those services were coming from the dashboard display. We could explain to them how the ‘maintainence minder’ system worked and what parameters it used, yet for many, the declining of those services would still occur. This of course would be noted in their service history as well as be visible on their work order.
Common issues were overfilling of fuel tanks, so that the evap canister wold eventually become contaminated with excess fuel, triggering a check engine light. Explaining to clients why not to continue doing what they were doing still fell on deaf ears. Brake servicing (pulling apart calipers to clean and lubricate sliders, or clean drum brake adjusting systems) was another common item to be declined. With the wonderful summer dust we have, and then winter salts used on the snow covered roadways, brake calipers would eventually seize on sliders and as you well know, cause brake, expensive services, to happen.
It would also happen that people would come in with 60% oil life remaining and wanting to have an oil change done, as it had been a while since the last change. Our service advisors were instructed to explain to customers that they should consider following the maintainence minder recommendations, as Honda designed it, made the engine, and were not likely to set the system up so that a customer could follow it, and sustain engine damage. This bothered me a little until I realized that our service advisors were asking the customers and checking service records (if we had them) when the last time was that they had had the oil changed. If the time period was excessive then the oil change was recommended.
I’d just like to re-iterate that I appreciated the approach you took when explaining your thoughts on the Hyundai customer who experienced the timing chain failure and the unwillingness of the dealer to provide assistance.
This is a really interesting post! In Australia we don't get snow or such maybe swings in temperature. Our lowest here in Melbourne would be maybe 2c and our highest maybe 43 or so.
Here in the USA, I've serviced my direct fuel injected 2012 Mazda 3 every 5,000 miles. Car now has 316,000 miles (nearly 510,000 km) on the odometer. Only engine issue occurred near 75,000 miles when the intake valves carboned up. Dealer removed the carbon ($900), and updated the ECM. No other engine issues since.
You're right on, regular service pays!
what trans in your car?? interesting how some 'reprograming' kinda fixed that valve gunk issue....
In 2017 Hyundai Australia told me each dealership decides if it wants to honour warranty and look into disputes involving said dealership. HA said they only paid the bill and could pull warranty claims and refuse them.
I hope that this method has changed, it clearly did not work for Holden.
A friend has a 2012 Boss 302. He told me last weekend while we were teaching Automotive Maintenance merit badge that he only changes his oil every two years (!!!!) because he drives it so little. I told him that I change the oil in the ST every 6 months when I change out the winter tires. His notion is that the high grade synthetic oil additive package he uses will last 24 months. I would never try that on mine.
This happened to me. I had difficulty getting my Hyundai IX35 serviced during the pandemic, I was pretty good with annual services prior to that, but a year out of warranty the timing chain failed, and the exact issue you describe happened with the valves being destroyed. The mechanic I happened to break down next to, couldn't source a new engine and managed to rebuild it. I've already traded it in. Now I need to convince my wife to get her Prius C serviced...
I'm in agreement that 12 month intervals are about as long as you would ever go, and even then only for ideal running conditions (which let's face it, almost no cars operate under). Most new car buyers just have no clue about the impact their driving style and conditions have.
It's also counter-intuitive. Less driving is worse for your oil than more driving.
Your telling me a vehicle with 6000mile intervals and synthetic oil that burns no oil between changes driven 5000 miles per year, needs an oil change. It will get one but no way that oil has lost its protection.
@@graywind4326 it's not just about the ability of the oil to lubricate, it's also about the ability to keep the generation of sludge down, keep the levels of fuel dilution oil down, getting the chance to keep valves clean from carbon (especially for direct injection motors), getting the chance to keep fuel injection systems clean, keeping carbon buildup in crankcase ventilation systems in check, getting the chance to change wiper blades, checking the condition of consumables like filters and brakes, checking tyre wear and alignment, looking for suspension wear etc.
@@virangaabeywickrema3901 agreed, I am just saying the car sitting and not being driven more than the recommended interval in a year, means once a year oil change is fine. Not every 6 months if you don’t hit the 6000 miles interval.
He caned bejesus out of it, chain snapped and that’s that…
John, who would be responsible if an expensive problem arose that would normally be covered by warranty because the dealer was not able to fit a car in for service? Recently, I rang the dealer to book my 2019 Nline in for a 50k km service and was told that I would have to wait for three weeks due to lack of staff. Would I be expected to park the car up when it reaches the service kilometres or do I keep driving?
I think three weeks would be OK. Keep records of your diligent attempt to book the car in on time.
Been watching Curtis at CCE for a long time. He is a genius at repairing any heavy machinery.
Another long-term mechanic here, yes Iv'e seen my fair share of catastrophic failures due to interference fit engines. What had always stymied me from a design aspect was the belt/chain/gear methods of valve actuation. In my opinion valve actuation should have long since been driven solely by gears. I think it's a purposeful choice of cheaper systems fully known to "not lasting", a case of "planned" failure.
Does anybody do that? Aircraft engines?
In the US many Hyundai and Kia engines are failing prematurely,some being recalled. Maybe this is because the engines are different to Aussie vehicles or maybe Oz vehicles have Korean built engines that might be better quality.
No, they are shit, low quality as yours
I would not be surprised at all if your statement is true. Some people in the US would actually prefer their truck made in Mexico versus here. The factory workers here are notorious.
Love the CEE channel, Kurtis is a wizard and Karen is a pretty handy video productionist.
They are a formidable team. And the Safety Officer rocks. Is there a dog, anywhere, with more toys?
@@AutoExpertJC With how quickly they are dispatched by Homeless I suspect so.
John,
I enjoy your videos from the US. As a semi-retired engineer, who performs all the basic maintenance on my car and my wife's car myself, you are spot on. I never let my service intervals for oil changes go past 5,000 miles, 8000km. Oil, gear lube & transmission fluid is cheap to extend the life of your vehicles. Keep up the great work. My wife & I hope to visit your beautiful country soon.
For most of my life I drove second hand cars that I spent less than £2000 on in todays money, so servicing was self-done and somewhat ad-hoc. Generally I was lucky, and cars back then being simpler affairs and being mechanically enclined I didn't really have too many problems. Some of my cars ended their relationship with me on a trip to the scrap yard but those I had for 5-10 years and the rest I sold on when I got bored or it proved to be a lemon from the outset. The more decent cars I had in my latter years (when I grew tired of lying on the ground replacing things!) I got serviced according to the schedule, and often I would put in an extra oil change service and inspection before winter and those cars I never had any problems with. The extra oil change wasn't expensive, and knowing that someone's had a good look at everything when you go into the shitty part of the year was reassuring. And when it came to selling on the cars I they sold easily for a good price, so I gained there without significantly increasing my servicing cots, and on a few occasions faults were detected that probably would have seen me standing in the snow waiting for recovery, or having a failure that would be far more expensive to fix. I'm not boasting here, I definitely could have treated my cars better than I did, but I did (eventually) learn that preventative maintenance is worth it both in a cost and time basis, because your car never goes wrong when you're not going to be needing it for a few weeks....
My hino 300 runs about 15k km a month, and my Mazda 3, about 15k a year. Both driven exclusively by myself.
Those oil bills are ridiculous
Agree with your analysis on this occasion but Kia and Hyundai have had a recall for their vehicles fitted with the 2.4 theta engine.Sons Optima with this engine was recalled back to the dealer where they listened for knocking coming from the engine that indicates a failing big end bearing that has been deprived of oil by swarf left in the engine during manufacture blocking the oil gallery supplying the bearing with engine oil.
WTF .. What a hot messed up / Confusing post " learn to type right "
Can't you read?
Mark are you in USA? Most of the recall one have been made there ...
Oz
I couldn't count the litres of oil and multitude of filters I've bought for vehicles, both 2 and 4 wheeled, over the years.
But I do still vividly remember the two engines I catastrophically seized.
One down to the slippery stuff not being slippery enough, the second being it's absence in the required quantity.
Ah, the days of youth, with both engines martyred in pursuit of a very different kind of "servicing "...
They sell filters by the case where I come from they're cheaper that way
Ha! Ha! 🙂👍, Yup... Been there, done that & got the 'T' shirt.
Love the CEE Australia recommendation. It's been one of my favorites for a while now. One video per week, but it's always incredible.
If you do the sums, old mate was one full service behind when the timing chain went. No wonder Hyundai weren't in a position to help him. Somehow I don't think he'll be repeating that mistake.
No, I think it was a real wake-up call.
Wasn’t expecting Curtis’s channel to get a mention here. Very satisfying watching him work.
That is a crazy distance to go between oil changes. And I am willing to bet he never checked his oil level. Timing chains require oil.
They do require lube, as is the case with so many critical components.
@@AutoExpertJC yes, personally, I prefer Astro glide
I had a friend with a mitsubishi - 4G63 engine - it had an oil and compression problem on number 3 - he fitted a hotter spark-plug to keep it burnt-clean of oil.
But even so - he theorised - that keeping the oil level low helped it to Not-misfire.
He wasn't happy unless the oil-pressure warning-light was occasionally flashing.
Drove it like that for 14 months.
On the very day he headed out to put in a 4G64 . . . all that camshaft drag finally 'won': the timing belt gave up.
Working in mining, I have taken the habit of doing pre start check with my car , once a week in normal times, daily when in the bush (on board TPMS help with pressure ). Too many car users don’t seem to bother to look at their cars in between services : lights, tyre pressure, fluids (not only windscreen fluid) , dirty air vents or radiators …. Seem that users expect nothing to happen between services , that next visit will sort everything out …
Who is responsible if you book a service 2000km out from your scheduled interval but by the time the dealer can get you in you are 1500km over? I get oil and filter changes at half the service interval anyway and run around 25-30,000km.yr for work so oil and time are within spec but trying to get booked in in any reliable way is pretty hit and miss.
If you keep records of when you made the booking, that should help. These days most makes/dealers have online bookings, thus making it very easy to retain evidence. If you make a booking via phone, make a diary note and cross-reference it with the dealer's phone number on your mobile bill/call history. A bit trickier than online booking, but it's still something that can confirm when the booking was made.
Pretty much you are.
My good old WJ Jeep 4.7 V8, I change the oil and filter at 5000km or 6 months without fail. The engine is still perfect and does not use oil at 210,000km on the clock.
Get our "main" cars serviced every 6 months (2016 I30 SR, 2017 Santa Fe). The I30 goes to my mates shop, the Santa Fe is still with dealer (main services are free while in warranty). Once warranty is over though, it will be going to the same place as my I30.
1. I have also purchased my i30 after a long time of documentation, including your videos and one line I still remember was "I know what poverty pack is and this isn't it" when talking about the base model. I now have an I30 "Highway" 1.5 T-GDI 160ps with a manual. The Highway trim level is right in the middle.
2. I read the terms and conditions of the warranty and you are allowed to go over the km and time by 1000KM of 1 month so, even the 15000 km and a bit I would say are ok. At least this is the case in EU, where I'm from.
Is that a diesel ?
@@garynew9637 It's a turbo petrol. Turbo Gasoline Direct Injection. T-GDI. It moves decent enough.
This is all a matter of chemistry. What manufacturers have done is increase the oil volume. A 202 Holden had an oil volume of about 4 litres and a chance requirement of 2,500 km. Everything fitted together like a boot in a bucket. Moving forward 50 years with CNC, the tolerances have become finer over the old cam-operated machining used for mass production. Oil chemistry has improved so service intervals have increased because of the aforementioned improvements.
I had someone come to me with a 2009 V6 MPI petrol Rodeo who believes that servicing his ute involved waiting till the dipstick becomes too short (the oil is no longer apparent) and then adding oil. The vehicle blows smoke at 176530 km (on the odometer). He has the heads done about 18 months ago and it now has a knock louder than a mad judge and his gavel. A bore scope inspection of the pistons shows enough carbon to open a coal mine. The whole engine requires either replacing or rebuilding. Hence John's really good advice.
On a side note, I read a few months ago that Captain Number 1 mediocrity allegedlyvincreased it's service interval in the USA from 10,000 miles to 15,000 miles a couple of years ago and now all the vehicles reaching 100,000 miles are blowing smoke because the engines are stuffed. If I remember correctly, there a class action brewing..
Great video, and a timely plug for Curtis, he has a new video every Friday. About to sit back with dinner, the dog, and start watching.
I've taken my Ranger in twice for service and the dealer has said "IT"S TOO SOON!" ... I thought that was weird
Time in my case with an annual service. Always quick and painless with Subaru even during Covid times.
Wear a mask at the dealership and the car was washed down before the service people worked on it.
Cutting corners with servicing is just such a false economy.
Absolutely agreed, Andrew.
My car is serviced every year, even though 22 year's old and 150,000 Kim, it's expensive but it requires a warrant of certificate as well which is extremely strict here in sheepshsgastan.
4:18 humidity has the same effect on my knees, and hips, following a lifetime of using body parts as bumper bars on a motorcycle.
I agree with you John, Hyundai are not at fault here. Remnants of the combusted diesel fuel turn to soot and when it moves past the piston rings it ends up in the engine's crankcase sump oil pan area, where the engine oil is stored, Not getting your service done on or before your time could prove to be catastrophic.
It certainly could. Accountability for premature failures is all in the nuance, on a case-by-case basis.
Hyundai gdi engines honestly should have their oil changed every 3000 to 3500 because they produce so much soot in oil..do this ant they seem to do just fine .if you don't do regular maintenance on these little engines you'll be sorry .the reason for the soot in the oil is because of the low tension piston rings also if you short trip them every day gasoline dilutes the oil..
how is it that a 530hp BMW service interval is 2 years 30,000ks? in New Zealand all the BMW cars are service interval 2 years 30,000kms! planned obsolescence?
I used to buy my oil direct from an oil company rep, he was always saying "oil is cheaper than metal" something that I have to agree with.
As valid today as it was a century ago.
@@krystal5887 No, Royal snowdrift Century oils
@@krystal5887 trouble is in 1992 they got taken over by Fuchs, a little off-putting knowing you have just fuchs your engine.
Do I enjoy paying for 4 services in the less than 2 years I’ve owned my car? No. But I suspect I’d enjoy paying for a new engine in my Stinger even less!
Who pays more, pays less in the end. Allways.
Just found this video after our KIA Sorento engine has failed and dealing with KIA. It is being refused a repair / new engine as the dealer did a minor service 3000 miles before the oil needed changing. We were not told to get the oil changed. A year later the engine failed 18 miles after its major service but 10000 miles after the oil should have been changed. Might need to take KIA and dealerships to court.
Hmmm, we have had 7 cars in total, all 6 VAG diesel engine, 1 petrol and doing only one oil change per 25.000-30.000km (longlife) service in Europe. All cars are doing now up to 300.000km, without ANY issues and I know a lot of people which have even more, like 500.000km driving 1000-2000km per week and have no problems.
Thats why I never know why does Hyundai want me to change the oil every 10.000km. People say, because of warranty, but yes thats one way to look at it, the other way is, what if Hyundai is "not sure" that the engine can last long without such a high frequency oil changes. Because of that I am scared, that hyundai engines are very sensitive and sometimes I change the oil even after 5000km, just to be sure.
On the other hand, I was changing the spark plugs on my VAG every 25.000km, but Hyundai is saying that every 75.000km is enough. Hmmm.
Agree with you on the long-life intervals. There are a lot of internet mechanics who "feel that" 25 or 30 k is too long and that ow20 oil is too thin, but I'll trust the manufacturer's knowledge over their data-free instincts. Likewise Volvo have 30 k / 1 year intervals, and no problems whatsoever - obviously it's essential to use top quality oil rather than cheaping out, but despite the internet mechanics' predictions, amazingly there isn't an epidemic of VW, Volvo etc. engines breaking down due to those intervals. If Hyundai specifies 10,000 km oil changes, that seems very short indeed - makes you wonder about the durability of those engines.
I serviced my 1.0 liter Fiesta up until 5 years. Did mostly my own oil changes in between and at 146k ( Ford says 240k i might add) i did a timingbelt and 15% of the teeth we're gone and 1 tooth from disaster and clogged oil pickup.. So hmm i did a lot of extra oilchanges and non of it really helped. But one should keep up on atleast oilchanges because of dilution, as a common issue with Di engines - and if you have a wet belt like mine be even more carefull..
The problem is that most people think that because it is a brand new vehicle that the engine will not use any oil but that is far from the truth. Check all the fluids at least once a week, oil, coolant and brake fluid levels. Then tyre pressure and condition and get the service done before it is due. 500 bucks is a lot less than 25000 bucks.
Both myself and the wife have a couple of Hyundai cars, the wife car is a 2014 i30 with now 76,000Kms and is sutch a good little car that when iwas looking for a replacement for my own AU ford ( with 115,000 Kms ) on the clock and was written off after i had a argument with the retaining wires on the highway out of Launcestion. This car was written off due to cost of the repairs. But looking for a replacement car and after another reliable car for my self, i chose on a 2017 Hyundai Elantra with 31,500 Kms. This uses the same drive train as the i30. I have only had that car for a few months. Both cars are quiet, cheap to run and my Elantra averages around 6.0 Ltr/100 Kms . I'm over the moon with the fuel consumption with both cars.
As for servicing and over the years all of our cars ( we also have a 1995 Pajero diesel with 280,000 Kms and is mainly used to pull our caravan around Tasmania with ) have have a full service, oil, filter and a safty inspection every 12 months. Yes, it costs a little bit, BUT, cheaper than replacing a engine or buying another car. The Pajero just had a injector pump and injectors replaced, alone with the harmonic balancer at the same time, cost for that was north of $4100.00.
My wife and myself are now both on the aged pension and checking the wife's car that we have had for now now on 19 months, so not high mileage !!. My own car the Elantra and that was bought in August 2022 and only now have chalked up a further 2000 Kms.
thank you for explaining that I will be sure to get my car serviced on time it will be time as I don't drive the km but will keep up with the services thanks john
My 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer coupled with a CVT gearbox. I now have 460,000, still original engine and CVT, original timing chain, original starter motor. Only Radiator and Alternator has been replaced along with the usual wear and tear parts. Why has it lasted so long? Servicing, and yes a lot of freeway driving helps and not thrashing it all the time. And the 4B11 motor is well balanced.
Had a Santa Fail snap chain at 200,000km, it was serviced every 10k.the driveshaft transfer box splines are a time bomb too.
Drivers who do high kms is not always a bad thing, Most engine damage is done on cold start up because it takes say a second for oil to reach the top of the engine. Long HOT running means that the engine is being lubricated ALL the time it is running!!
With ANY modern vehicle NOT servicing it correctly is the WORST thing you can do to it!!!!
I have heard the Late model Mazda Sky Active engines are very sensitive to being NOT serviced properly ( i could be wrong ). As for Brendon blown up Hyundai engine, i think personally i would for a Good used 2nd hand engine a rebuild of the original will COST BIG!!!!!!!!!
I’ve done the full scientific engine oil sample analysis with a Shell Engineer with a customer wanting to move from 250 hour engine oil changes to 500 hour intervals on large mining trucks.
Result?
Oil has come a long long long way
But everything important in oil was disappearing at around the 350-400 hour mark. And contaminants were increasing.
Would u believe an accountant if they walked up you and told you your oil viscosity is wrong? No
So don’t take service schedules as the very best treatment or even acceptable for your car coz they are manipulated by the same “professionals”
Hi John, I 100% agree with you on servicing as a mechanic myself. I remember my grandfather who was a mechanic himself saying oil and filters are cheap engines ain't!
As regards warranty I wonder how I would fair against a car manufacturer seeing as I service my car myself. I have a 2014 Renault Fluence 1.5 diesel with an auto gearbox as my daily driver. I have a 1998 Toyota Landcruiser 3.0 Turbo diesel which I use at the weekend.
Regards, Barry.
Kurtis and Karen make a kickass team, the quality of the videos is top notch
Also filters are made with a paper element & brake and clutch fluid absorbers water causing rust and low heat stability, coolants degrade causing alloys to corrode and head gaskets to fail etc etc.
"Everyday i look over the horizon and I can smell the cemetery beckoning"
....damn. Edgar Allan Cadogan.
"A Descent Into The Fat Cave"
It's incredibly satisfying to weld something up and have it distort just perfectly the right amount to get it dead nuts square (without the use of fixturing).
My 2017 Megane petrol has a 18000 mile or 24 months service schedule from Renault, i service it every 6 months or 4000 miles. I don't care what the manufacturer says is ok, oil is cheap and engines are not. One other thought to hang on to, being a garage owner and repairing cars for a living i wish i got £1 for every car that an owner comes in with and says can you top up the oil as the light has come on. It's hard to remain calm and explain that's not advising to top up oil, it's saying that the oil pressure is f*cking too low because there's no oil in it.
ex hyundai/kia mechanic.
while there were some problems that arose, with the 2012-16ish i30 engine block, and the i40 fuel pump leaking into the engine. (poor fuel pump not engine)
and some newer one suffering cam faults.
there were really good, especially the diesels. most total failures were due to poor servicing, or lack of use and the engines getting full of sludge. the worse being a petrol v6 carnival that the mums use to putt around for the school run. never got worked hard or serviced enough.
the turbo i30 1.6 were really good.
my advice to people is do not be afraid to rev the car out at times, and go for long drives if you mainly do short drives. watch all the water and black smoke come out the exhaust when you rev.
rotten egg smell is a clue you are building up crap in the exhaust and it need to get hot.
I drive a WRX and my wife drives an Impreza. I change the oil every 3,000 miles on both, full synthetic, in spite of the 5,000 mile recommendation. I’ll pay a little more for oil in the long run, but well maintained, unmodified Subies can last a long time.
Loved your metalworking segment John. Not sure about the good enough maxim. I always taught my students never to settle for second best but only ever you best, whatever that may be. In other words if you strive for perfection you are more likely to improve.
My wife recently drove a brand new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid for a public agency in regional Australia which covered around 500ks per day from day 1. By the time the local service agent was able to book it in for it's first service it had done nearly 20000ks. In Australia, and I believe many countries overseas, there is a major shortage of qualified service techs. We are waiting around 6 weeks to get cars booked in so it makes it a real balancing act to keep within the stipulated limits. Makes purchasing second hand and obtaining accurate service history really critical.
CEE and Curits. . . yesh. . that guy rocks!!!! Powerball tools guy. . .insanely skilled.
I guess I am old, but I use time or mileage (USA), which ever comes first. My wife drives 1.2 miles to work. I have to assume her oil is full of water! So she gets an oil change every Spring and Fall. My car hits the mileage limit first. I always use the Severe Service guidelines since I don't think I have ever met a person who drives "Normal." For the record, my 2011 Genesis Coupe 2.0T was the best car I ever owned. I traded it with over 134k miles and at 11 years. The engine still ran like a top with no significant oil use. My wife had an Elantra for over 7 years. Another good car. In both cases I was the mechanic. She now owns a Genesis and I have a Veloster N which I drive like a spoiled teenager. Our daughter owns a new Tucson hybrid. We have had very good luck and service from our Hyundai cars...but I am very aggressive with servicing. We traded a Honda with over 175k miles and it ran like a jewel too.
Well first guy with i30 , only things that are KLM or time are brake fluid, coolant an engine oil, all the rest are KLms IE -air filters, spark plugs etc
Plugs are good for 40 000klms anyday for normal drive conditions
In the 45 years I spent in the automotive repair, almost every vehicle that had a engine failure, outside of warrant, had not changed the oil on time. One that comes to mind seized the camshaft it the cylinder head twice. The second time he hadn't changed the oil since I did it when I repaired it the last time. He had traveled over 20thousand miles on dyno oil.
The dealers should have switched the 5w30 to 15w40 Rotel the day they hit the lot. The 5w30 was mandated to meet the emissions requirements. I was given that tip by a seasoned Hyundai shop tech, I followed his device, turbo charged engines don't need 5w oil, I could be wrong tho.
It's interesting that this video comes up in my feed at this time, and raises a question re the servicing schedule. We own 2x 2017 Ford Escapes. One is a Trend, and the more (very) recent is a Titanium. After the purchase of the latter, we found out it was imported (don't get me started on that) from over the ditch by it's original owner when they chose sunshine over long white clouds. The scheduled service interval for our Aussie badged Trend is 12/15000, whereas it's kiwi cousin is 12/20000. Mechanically, these are the same vehicle (2.0DT + AWD), so why the difference in the log books? Another fun fact, when Ford Austraya started servicing the Titanium, they started noting next services at the 12/15000 interval.
Love the Tee shirt John - don't get me started... I'll talk about that aircraft for months! - all the best 😉
Hay got a good idea for the dude put a Holden 186 red motor in the hundi. Then you'll never have to service it , just put a bit of oil in it when the oil pressure light comes on when going around a corner and it will still do 350000 thousand miles like my old ht .
John, I’d one day love to hear your thoughts on the Jordan Shanks’s home fires. I understand it’s probably a bit too early in the peace now, and this has a long way to go, but one day.
I am wondering about EV servicing. If you look at the report all they have done is look at the car. If a service is missed how can it affect warranty given that nothing has been replaced or adjusted. Meaning that not having someone look at the car would not cause a failure.