Testing Is The Key To Varroa Progress
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- Опубліковано 17 лют 2023
- With testing, we can implement IPM on each hive, and we can grade each hive to become a breeder, go to populate a drone flooding yard, or get requeened. The key is to make testing economically viable for the people who have the most bees...commercial beekeepers.
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I could listen to Bob talk about bees all day.
He’s pretty sharp!
Same!!
I listen to Bob every chance i get such valuable information 💯
He's a good one!
Some of us did it here.. Used OAV like that (usually for testing other treatments, methods...) One thing to watch for, if it's late in the season.. depending on the drop, big or small.. it's good to know their brood emergence.. was their brood mostly capped or open, did they had a big hatch a day before... their brood cycles.. you have to add that in your math. I hope i wrote it understandable. But even without it, OAV is a great tool with screen bottom boards.
Funny. Like Bob, l had a treatment free yard on an island with only one more beek with his 30. We had some mites, but no big problems. It was a great place for all kinds of experiments and queen selection... then one day some newbies arrived with a hive box trailer and set us back 5 -10 years with our breeding plans.
This one was great. Important topics. You talked about some really good stuff.. people won't even realize..
I appreciate it! This stuff is super interesting to me.
Ty Nathan, some times Bob's rabbit holes the most interesting and have the biggest nuggets of wisdom.👍
Agreed DC, I like to get him talking and see where it goes 🤣
Another fantastic video Nathan 🐝 you and Bob share with Beekeepers great information massive thank you Nathan & Bob 🐝 Sebastian
Thanks!
So enjoy you and Bob’s chats. Thanks for the videos. Take care.
I appreciate it
Another great video Nathan, your content has become a staple in videos I watch regularly. Really enjoying keeping up with everything you have been doing. This might be a bit off topic but you seem to be well read in beekeeping books, would it be possible to put together a video about Top 3/5 books you have found most helpful. Best wishes, Ben
Yeah I could do that.
Thank you so much for another great video, you have such great input and great ideas, this is what is going to make you and others great bee keepers! I'll be looking forward to the next one!
Thanks John!
There's some real ah ha moments in the video to really think about. Good points from both you and Bob that make sense. Thanks for sharing!
I appreciate it Chuck!
Now that’s a job I’d apply for, doing mite washes for Bob!!! That would be a great gig!!! Another great video Nathan!
Thanks Tim. I’d hate doing washes all day every day.
We need to get Cory Stevens and Bob together for a nice 2 hour-plus conversation!!!!
Ha!
I think you touched on this method in August. I think it's a great idea. Thanks for sharing!
This is an evolving idea, a work in progress. To be real honest I’m hoping someone smarter than me sees it and has a eureka moment and figures out something big.
Great idea!
Thanks!
I have done the screen board mite checking you talked about. It tells you if there are mites in your hive and if your OAV treatment is killing mites. That's all. It doesn't tell you the mite load percentage and therefore doesn't tell you how many mites are still in the hive (85% are under the cappings and OAV doesn't penetrate the cappings. It also doesn't tell you if an OAV treatment failed and didn't kill the mites in the hive.
Absolutely right, you can’t get a % of mites / bees. But I believe you CAN get useful, actionable information on every hive, vs better information on 10% of your hives doing washes.
Mite bombs are brutal. Happened to me several years ago three years in a row at one apiary. I didn't get there fast enough and it claimed the entire location. I eventually left that apiary and never found out where that 'bomb' was coming from.
If they are to deal with the mites, I still think a vaccine to the various viruses need to be developed. I still can't understand why a vaccine was developed for AFB when it's been less of a problem for a number of years.
Maybe a vaccine against mites. I'm not biologist in any way and don't know if it's possible, but develop a bee vaccine that attacks the mite when they vector in the exoskeleton of the bee. With today's science, it could be possible.
I believe routine testing could help find those colonies that get mite bombs and allow them to be salvaged. A lot will change in the next 10-20 years I bet.
Great video, some very interesting points and ideas there
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing 😁. Looking forward to another epic beekeeping season.
Thanks, I doubt it’ll be epic. As long as its mediocre or better I’ll be happy.
Thank you Nathan and Bob for sharing ☺️ Breeding for VSH is great but I wish we could also breed out robbing behavior as well. My urban area is plagued with collapsing colonies in the fall.
That may be a selectable trait.
Robbing would go away with strong healthy colonies... you're right Nathan it can be selected for or against
Nathan, I have some of Cory's queens, some Sue Colby VSH queens, some VSH Carnolians for another source, a feral colony that has always had low mite counts, and I have a couple of Greg Burns Appalachian Mutts ordered for spring. I want a diverse yard of bees, all with the VSH traits possible.
I use alcohol washes, the Harbo assay, and your sticky board drop with OAV to try to keep an eye on mite numbers.
Randy Oliver is right, we need all beekeepers to be researching selective breeding to find and produce bees with all types of VSH traits.
I believe UBO will be an easier, faster test for VSH. I can't wait to be able to add that to the tool kit. If you don't test in some way you are shooting in the dark I think you use different tests from time to time. I use different test methods because I think each one has value.
Agreed. My highest goal with this is to help develop a protocol that will pay out in a commercial setting. Commercial beekeepers have most of the hives, so that’s where the biggest gain is at.
This is what I do as well. Treat all colonies with OA vapor every 6 to 8 weeks except during the flow. The ones that show drops get hit again. And again and again if necessary.
It a lot of work, but has been successful for me.
Great video Nathan! I’m a pretty small outfit but I like the idea of using OAV as a way to compare my colonies to one another. You may have sold me on IPM bottom boards.
It's a lot easier to buy into equipment when you're starting than to change later.
Today's beekeepers would never believe how many mites we used to have in our hives in the 80s, and bees were still doing good... l think it's the driving around.. eventually, we spreaded so many diseases and viruses, different varroa strains. So now it's time for you young guys to find a solution
😅 that’s a big task!
Thanks for another great video Nathan! I'd really be interested in hearing more about Bobs treatment free yards even though it sounds like a semi-failure in the long run. I think there might be valuable lessons we might all take from it. I've read over and over the treatment free crowd insisting that the rest of us are breeding a super race of mites and weaker bees. After hearing what Bob experienced I wonder would we possibly be better off propagating mites like he had in his treatment free yard and purposely spreading them to other colonies with brood frames and nuc production? I know that seems backward from what most of us have been trying to do, just wonder if we should be considering it or a mechanism for that possibility?
IPM on a per hive basis will handle that issue, and efficient testing is how to make it viable.
Mr Bob is like an encyclopedia . Wish I could hook his brain to a hard drive.
🤣
There is only one thing Mr Bob said to do that I completely disagree with and that I’m not gonna do. He said join my local beekeeping club. To me their too many people in there with their mouth open and ears shut. I don’t care how long someone has been beekeeping, beekeeping and teaching is two totally different skill sets. I ask them questions about running 200 hives and they tell me start with two hives. I want to try to live my dreams and choose my destiny. Not theirs.They don’t listen very well . And secondly I want to hang out with people that share the same interests and people I want to be like. There is not one single person in any local clubs that want to do what I want to do. Guys like Ian didn’t play with 5 colonies for eight years. His second year he bought 40 nucs ?
There are good clubs and bad clubs. I’ve got a good local club. I will say that you can’t make your club better if you’re not in it. 😉
Using OA to test for mites is an interesting idea. My only concern would be that it’s not focused enough. You run the risk of removing some great genetics and promoting bad genetics, for example, what if a 100% VSH colony recently robbed out a mite bomb? They would get removed and the inverse could also be true, what if a completely non resistant colony simply got lucky? This process would undoubtedly produce results over a longer period of time and many generations. Performing a Harbo assay is a much higher resolution when selecting for VSH. Something to think about.
I agree that you're operating off imperfect information, but most beekeepers are already operating off imperfect information, because Randy Oliver is the only guy I know of that is testing every hive multiple times per year, at a sizable scale. With the methodology I'm putting out, you're operating off MORE imperfect information, where you have imperfect information on every hive. There will be a percentage success or failure as you point out, but over time I think the needle would move.
@@DuckRiverHoney Agreed, Just don't requeen all your colonies with the genetics from a single line. you could quickly find yourself with a whole operation of non resistant stock. pick several and keep track of the lines and see which one is producing results. The thing I do like about your OA approach is that it may select for resistance mechanisms other than VSH, like allogrooming for example or maybe even something we're not aware of yet.
Exactly! Drone yards populated with good performers, best performers go to a second tier harbo assay or UBO test for VSH, graft from the best and open mate them to the good.
Kirk webster has been treatment free for 25 years. He does no mite counts. Just thought I would share.
Yep, I'm aware of Kirk. I'd love to interview him sometime, wish he wasn't so far away. What he does is interesting, but though he's done it for 25 years, it isn't being adopted by other commercial beekeepers because the downside risk is to large to bear. With testing and IPM on a per hive basis, I think it could become economically feasible. If it makes money, commercial keepers will adopt.
I’ve never treated mine. My teacher stoped 6 years ago and his have been as good as ever. The key is feral genetics. They have their own grooming behaviors
Kirk has had years where he lost upwards of 90% of his colonies. Not many commercials are stubborn enough to stick with it after a hit like that. He also sells splits out of every colony each year. So there exists the argument that the brood break is a treatment. And removal of lots of mites when that nuc is sold.
@@DuckRiverHoney I trained with him. His writings are on his website.
I’ve read an article or two he wrote. Interesting stuff.
Bob’s interview of Dr Delaplane does a pretty good job of explaining why I’m cautiously pessimistic about the prospects of eventually having a baseline standard of mite resistant honey bee stock.
Maybe something like CRISPR could provide a means to modify hygienic genes and make them dominant, rather than recessive. Or make them more effective, in general.
But, as it is now, the genes are too rare/weak/recessive and there is too much genetic diversity within local drone populations. And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing! The only way to have any sort of consistency is with inseminating AI queens…but then the daughters mate locally and all bets are off.
I hope I’m proven wrong. But, short of genetic modification by way of CRISPR, I think the solution (if we ever have one) lies elsewhere. Vaccines, perhaps.
Testing and IPM on a per colony basis are my two points. Beyond that I’m open minded. How can we test for virus resistance? Could CRISPR be used to effect the mites?
@@DuckRiverHoney
Oh absolutely. Testing & IPM are absolute necessities for modern beekeeping. No disagreement there. I’m just very apprehensive about the prospect of an eventual genetic solution that doesn’t involve gene editing.
There should be a possible scientific process for testing viral resistance. But, as far as I am aware, viral resistance isn’t really “a thing” in honey bees. I could very well be wrong about that. But I think the honey bee immune system is too simple for viral resistance to naturally occur.
If vaccines are eventually developed to provide host resistance to viruses, then the efficacy of said vaccine would need to be tested somehow. Probably by comparing the viral loads of vaccinated bees with control group bees.
CRISPR *can* be used to edit the genes of mites. But there are significant biological issues with getting those edited genes to disperse amongst a population of mites. You really should listen to the most recent episode of Two Bees In A Podcast. They discuss this very thing.
Thanks Ryan!
I have. NEVER, EVER treated my bees. Over 5 years going strong. It’s all about genetics! Don’t buy packages of bees! That’s what messes it all up. You want local bees FROM YOUR AREA. FERAL BEES HAVE MADE IT WITHOUT HUMANS FOR YEARS. WE JUST NEED TO GET OUT OF NATURES WAY AND KEEP BEES ETHICALLY. MOST LARGE SCALE COMMERCIAL BEE KEEPERS DO WAY MORE HARM THAN GOOD.