All they need to do is have Riker say "Computer, end program". Troi says, "Can you imagine such a terrible eventuality Will? Thank goodness we have these alternate reality timeline programs to show us what horrors COULD have been". And just like that, the entirety of the last 16 years could be erased like a bad Barkley holodeck simulation!
@@jgood005 Star Trek Titan: T_oo I_nfirm T_o A_ct N_ormally A show about geriatric "onset of dementia" old people who think they are still in their prime! Done as a dramedy.
@@jgood005 I think they are a bit too old for that... They should work off the only thing that fans liked in the last two decades - Picard season 3. Some of the crap from season 1 and 2 can be softly retconned, I'm sure. Kinda like what they did with Q in s3.
*_Star Trek_* is one of the easiest franchises to turn around, and it doesn't even need an in-universe mechanism to do so. All that needs to be done is set a series after the events of *_Voyager_* and have it be that Romulus was never destroyed by a supernova of sorts because it never happened. Don't even reference a supernova; just have Romulus be as its always been.
Yes!!! The supernova is the biggest barrier to Star Trek going forwards, and always has been. Unless they jump another 70 years into the future past that, like they did with TNG.
@@ReelPopcornGeek I thought that was all an alternative universe anyway. It was never canon in the prime universe as far as I know. Isn't that why it was called the Kelvin timeline?
@@SW0000AThe supernova happened either way, because that was the catalyst for the time travel that created the separate timelines. However, neither "Prime" nor "Kelvin" are associated with Original-Enterprise Canon since they both spring from the alternate license agreement.
It’s been over for a long time. The fans don’t care anymore. I didn’t even know discovery and lower decks were over, that’s how little I’ve paid attention.
Same. When I was younger I used to want a collection of those Eaglemoss starships. Now I didn't even realize they went bankrupt. Really wouldn't call myself a Star Trek fan, despite loving most of classis Trek, and thats' sad.
Lower decks is worth a watch even if they over do the swearing and jokes. Past all that they hold the original series and characters in reverence and joke about past things from a place of love and respect. The characters actually grow and become better as the show goes on they regularly bring back favorite and forgotten characters to give closure and respect to them and address plot holes to almost everything especially with orions. It’s definitely deserves a chance
@@abrahamnarvaez1730 the overall aesthetic of the show was in the spirit of TNG canon, I can appreciate that. The show respects its universe that it in, but that’s all it wants to be which is a bowl of memberberries. It’s just a trick to get us to watch while the lower decks creators patronize us by giving us what we want by giving us a cartoon version of it. They didn’t take us seriously.
"Hey I have an idea that'll appeal to everyone! See we start off with a minority character, like a woman. Or a black guy. Oh no wait, a black woman! With a MAN'S NAME! Oh that's genius! And...AND...she's half vulcan! But not really, she was just raised by vulcans, see. And she's Spock's secret step-sister. Oh my god this is going to be the best thing ever...."
It's just bait designed to make people react and respond. He's been peppering the comments section with that same comment over and over. Don't feed the trolls the attention they seek.@@LordAnorak
@@TheRan-DomOnethat guy has been making the same comment about TOS and TNG over and over on this video. He's just an attention seeking troll. It's just bait designed to make people mad so they react and reply. Don't feed the trolls.
Doing 2 seasons of that starfleet academy "back to back" reeks of making one season, but splitting it into 2 seasons. like they are making 12 episodes, but actually 2 6 episode "seasons" (like Loki). I miss when you could lock into 20-30+ episodes seasons of shows
The problem with 20+ episodes is that there are usually 10 episodes of "filler" content that doesn't push the plot along (or does very slowly). Supernatural is a good example as there would be 5-6 episodes initially that pushes the main story along, then 10ish episodes that aren't super related but have some mention of the main plot and then the last 4-6 episodes of the season being about that main plot. It's why I like the way streaming shows are made is that it usually cuts out the fat. I can understand that you would want to have longer seasons, but longer seasons for the sake of it isn't the right answer.
@@BloodKaez- what you call “filler” does in the long run actually serve a purpose of filling in details, backstories, etc. That is why I think Kurtzman’s Trek hasn’t succeeded in the same way the franchise did with previous series in the past. In this case, less isn’t more
It's not an alternate time line, It is a parallel universe! Just like the TNG episode Parallels with thousands of Enterprise D's and one from the universe where the Borg won the battle of sector 001. They even showed a scene with an insane Riker that didn't want to close the giant space rift cause it would send them back and the Borg were everywhere. As far as i am concerned Star Trek canon ended when Enterprise was canceled in 2004-2005.
As established previously in Star Trek, a parallel universe would have far more in common with the main timeline. It's clearly an Alternate Universe. Far more separate, and easier to discard into the dustbin of history.
Eh, Enterprise wasn't that good either. Could've been an alternate universe as well for me. When this show wasn't doing as well as expected they came up with what? Time travel and war. Great. Where in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY had you ever heard about the Xindi war? Nowhere. Remember "Trials and Tribble-ations", THAT'S how you add time travel and keep timeline and canon intact. Everything after VOY was from people who gave a shit about Star Trek, who just wanted to build a monument to themselves in the Star Trek universe or simply wanted to change Star Trek into something they could earn more money with.
Networks have never had a say as to what is Star Trek canon or not. Canon is for the most part fan consensus, with some actor's input to assist. TOS fans initial reaction to STD was that because of glaring and deliberate inconsistencies with Roddenberry Trek nothing done by Kurtzman is considered canon, period. That attitude has never changed.
Actors don't get a say, they are hired to pretend to be someone they are not, they will put the effort in to make sure that their character is well liked, has a personality, etc. But no they do not get a say (generally) in Canon.
@@bfth121 Yes, they do. TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT actors often decide canon. You do not know what you are talking about. When Shatner said Star Trek was never political, it was considered canon. When George Takai said Sulu is straight, that's canon. Bret Spiner often contributes to Data's canon on fan panels. Roddenberry Trek actors contribute to canon all the time, just read the fan magazines.
The cleansing fire for Star Trek has come, to cleanse Kurtzman legacy and write about the dark history... or the eulogy if the fans don't come back after hearing that decanon of STD.
Technically what Lower Decks did was only showing that there is at least one alternate universe where Klingorcs exist at the time of Lower Decks (a few years after TNG and DS9). Also the crossover between Lower Decks and SNW makes it practically impossible for Lower Decks to remove SNW from the prime timeline while staying itself in the prime timeline.
Maybe Lower Decks is in the Star Trek TAS canon and that portal brought them over. Pike: Mr Boimler, I'd like to introduce you to Commodore Robert April. Boimler: ... WTF?!!!😲
Snw does enough in its own show to decanonize itself. the gorn weren't encountered until the tos episode "arena" unlike in snw where they are already the main baddie. Also in snw Kahn gets born much later than he should and the eugenics wars happen much later, this is due to time travelling romulans mucking things up. In that episode they stop the romulans from doing more damage but don't change any of that other stuff. Snw does more in its own show to make it an alternate timeline than anything an outside thing can do lol
@@Demiurge13 Retcons aside, Strange New Worlds, as far as I recall, only has two ties to Discovery that would be rather easy to fix. One is that Pike has clearly experienced something with the time crystals from Discovery, which would just need a new flashback or exposition to prop up and replace the original storyline. Then there is the one actual reference to Discovery, Spock saying something like "I miss my sister" in one episode. Just delete or redub the line. Of course, I'm in the minority that loathes Discovery but likes SNW so that may not be adequate for many.
Lower Decks is just incredible. I’m saddened how many people write it off because it’s ’a cartoon’. It has some of the most ‘starfleet’ moments of any trek series since VOY. That Cali class rally against the Alito was just *chef’s kiss*.
@@tcsnowdream9975 I loved when it went live action and crossed over to Strange New Worlds. That added a lot of weight to it for me. When they visit DS9 it’s incredible. I just rewatched DS9 and then Season 3 DS9 on Lower Decks directly afterwards. It picks the universe back up.
When I pointed this out a couple of years ago, i was accused of being a German fanatic from the 1930s! Well, as Klingons would tell those people, I hope their bird is left in the sun too long! 🍽️🦃🍗 😆😂🤣
I watched season 1 of Discovery forever ago and hated it. The other day I contemplated watching season 2 just to say that I'd watched it. I ended up watching Fellowship of the Ring for probably the 50th time instead. I just don't care about Star Trek anymore.
I loved just a few aspects of _Discovery,_ including the music score and the Power Ranger-esque Starfleet uniforms that were first seen in season four. I'll always relive _Trek_ classics, despite the franchise being among my honorable mentions.
I only watched parts of the first episode. Never watched anymore. I do like Critical Drinker critique of the series. He's the only thing that made it entertaining by exposing it.
@ That dialogue will go down in galactic history, and will be spoken and revered in millennia to come, along with other notable names and phrases like Leonard James Aka’ar, Spocko, Harcourt Fenton Mudd, it is better to rule in Hell than serve in heaven, it’s green, that unprincipled, evil-minded, lecherous, kulak, Harry Mudd programmed you?, followed by this place is even better than Leningrad . . .
I’ve personally given up on the franchise but I’m also getting rather old and have had decades to feast on more palatable fare before anyone attempted to force feed me swill so I feel more satiated. I’ll leave it up to younger and more eager fans to decide if whatever direction it takes is worth the effort.
Sadly I and the fans can’t afford to give up… because the people who ruined good IP’s are still out there, and when they cut free of one IP, they’ll drift to another and ruin that one too. This isn’t just a fight for Trek. This is a fight for the consumer having the right to have their opinion heard and acted upon to keep bad actors like Kurtzman and KK out of power so people of merit based performance can take their place.
There’s over a hundred years worth of entertainment far better than the sludge that has been oozing out of Hollywood over the last decade, and thanks to services like Pluto TV and Tubi, not to mention my own library, I need not watch one second of “current year” crap.
I think the reaction to the short, Unification is proof, fans will return if you treat thevfranchise, and by extension, the fans, with respect. So get rid of Kurtzman and his mess, and you are good
Some of Unification was built on from events in the Movie "Star Trek Beyond" and from Season 3 of "Star Trek: Picard". I will give you a few examples, Captain Kirk's body being at Daystrom Station and showing life signs and the saucer section of the Enterprise-D being retrieved from Veridian III were both from Season 3 of "Star Trek: Picard" and they were briefly shown in Unification and then when Kirk was walking up to Spock on his death bed, he passed by a small case on the table that held inside of it the photo of Kirk, Spock, and the crew (from "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier") and it was the same case that Zachary Quinto's Spock got in "Star Trek Beyond".
There are a lot of Trekkies who just got one of their best Christmas presents. The de-canonizing of STD is by far one of the best things that happened in Star Trek for a long time and a lot of Trekkies appreciate it.
I would argue the decanonization extends to even SNW, Picard, and Lower Decks as well as each of the series have references to STD as though it were still canon. It's a domino effect, effectively splitting all of Kurtzman Trek into its own separate (but parallel) timeline. It's similar to the canon timeline of ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, but excludes everything made after ENT ended production in the early 2000s. This needs to be what happens. That way, true Trekkies have the untainted core canon of Trek's golden age, while the dwindling Nu-Trek fanbase can have their slop on the side. Everyone is happy as the classics remain untouched in their own canon timeline, and the slop can do whatever it wants on its own timeline. This needs to be made official as it will please the most fans overall. A similar move needs to be made with Star Wars as everything made after the Disney purchase of Lucasfilm needs to be formally declared an alternate reality so that all the Disney Star Wars slop is removed from the True, Pre-Disney Canon. Star Trek and Paramount just proved that it can be done and the positive fan reactions to such a move should motivate more decanonizations like this. It just proves that the fandoms can be saved! All it takes is the magical phrase "It's an alternate universe" to be said by the higher ups. Just say it Paramount, just say it Disney, and listen to the rejoicing of the fans as all the slop that's been peddled gets erased from the true canons!
@@nonyabisness6306 No but they did have that crossover with SNW which did consider STD as canon. They may be trying to paint it as SNW is separate from STD but there's still been too many STD references in SNW for it not to count.
SNW is fun but also in an alt timeline, as they admit that the Eugenics Wars got shifted from 1992-1996 to around WW3. That alone means SNW is in a new timeline.
@@Boskov01 did they specify that the crossover was just time-travel? otherwise it may have been alternate reality as well. i think the guardian of forever for example is time-travel + dimension hopping.
Put James Cawley from star trek phase 2 (new voyages) in charge, he loves the Star Trek franchise and is someone who could make Star Trek great again as he has demonstrated his deep understanding of the brand and the fans
@@gcwyatt Yes it is dead, the member-berries Star Trek was Rodenberry/ Berman, the new take is Rodenberry Jr/ Kurtzman. Why people need to have a storm in a teacup about it is beyond me. 🤷♂
@@temparalflux914 a broken clock is still right twice a day... Make up a bunch of bullshit, sooner or later some of it will be true. Or at least true enough they can perform vast mental gymnastics to try and claim they were right.
Haha totally. They are fun videos to watch cause the theories and such are insane to float out but majority of this won’t pan out at all. These trek shows whether we like or not are still canon the creator of lower decks knew exactly what he was doing so gotta love him for that. Sad to see the show go of course.
Wait, so Strange New Worlds is still canon, despite having an entire episode at the start of it focussing on an alien race nearly destroying themselves because they merely saw from long-range the events at the end of Discovery season 2 with the whole control battle? Come on!
I do believe in the airlock shot we see James Bond villain Hugo Drax being sucked into space ... nice :) As for Trek, if Skydance make a clean sweep, make it a public one and don't try to hide anything and then follow that up with a series that looks and feels like Trek from the original shows then the fans will come back. However if there is a whiff of Kurtzman Trek anywhere then they won't.
In-universe retconning reeks of contrivance. They’d be better off not trying to explain anything. Just restart from a stable back-up point the way you would do with a computer and announce you are starting fresh in the trades.
It’s not exactly a retcon. No one could seriously argue that Discovery was from the same universe as classic Trek. Lower Decks has never actually touched upon the NuTrek shows, save for one episode crossing over with SNW. And the finale touched more upon the themes of the TNG finale.
I watched ST5 not too long ago, a lot of people say it's one of the crappiest of the ST films, but to see the old crew, that magic, the banter, and to be honest, a story that isn't as silly as some of the Original series were, I'd take that film 100 times over anything that's come since 2009! That's right, I went there...
ST 5 is underrated. It’s got some silly stuff, but also some of the best character moments in the entire series. Row, row, row your boat gently down the steam..
I’ll believe it when I see it, but if Skydance do decanonize STD, and hopefully everything else after ENT, they’ll also remove the Star Trek name from them too if possible.
@@mflax4331 I can still remember when everybody foolishly waved jar jar's banner when he first showed up. I told you all then that the lens flaring was a sign of incompetence , but everybody went full retard about how good he was... how good was he again?...
I hope that Paramount will come out and say that Star Trek Continues is canon. That, I think, will show that they are serious about building bridges that were burnt down by Kurtzman.
To me, all modern trek is alt u. Nothing wrong with that. The TNG episode “parallels” showed there were many nearly identical alt universes, and you can do a whole butcher trek that’s slightly AU and thus not trading the prime universe. Wisely, JJ Abrams did something like this with the movies
The damage is not too great. I am willing to give a different creative team a chance. As long as Kurtzman has nothing to do with it. If it's good, maybe I can like new new Trek as much as I love old Trek. But honestly, if it's bad, I think I might just give up on new Trek forever. Basically, this is the last chance to get it right. Either Skydance pulls it off or Trek is over.
I know for certain there is one emotional reaction; mine. And it's one of pure joy to hear that Discovery might be consigned to non-canon. Pure joy, what a christmas gift! Nature is healing.
All of this might be the Picard Season 3 effect! I read Alex Kurtman was upset over some of what Terry Matalas did in that season, especially episode 6, one of my favorite episode behind episode 9! 😆 And if im correct Kurtman had nothing to do with the Unification short film! Paramount let Ari Emanuel, Kevin Feige, the Okadas. and Terry Matalas help put that film together. Seeing Fiege attact to it doesn't surprise me. I remember reading something saying he was a Star Trek fan and did the Endgame credits like Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered County. You can definitely see the similarities in it
They didn't really have anything good from Star Trek to be exited about. You can't dish out 2 decades of trash and expect your old customers to hang around or any new to come in.
Lower Decks brought in a ton of new, younger fans. With a lot of people you failed to realize… Including the creator of this video… Is that not all content is aimed at them anymore. This is like going to Nickelodeon and being upset that they’re not catering to 30 and 40-year-olds. The genre and the shows need to adapt for each generation and each audience.
there is no such things as too much damage. If it is good, people will see it. the problem will be about the publicity. If the public see the difference, they will try it.
Remember the clever explanation for why Klingons in T.O.S. looked different than they did later? It took a few episodes to unfold but it was superbly crafted. Nobody really dies in sci-fi, and anything can be explained as well.
Can someone clarify what exactly is going on with Skydance? Are they buying Paramount? Are they just gonna be in control of Star Trek as partners? I’m confused.
@@davecue2 yes they are buying CBS and everything that is paramount global. It sold for a shockingly small amount. 8 billion for everything, most of which was purchased in stocks. They had a partial merger going back as far as 2009. Skydance co-produced everything since then. But they've decided to buy out their partner and take creative control
Hire the team that produced "Star Trek Axanar". They gained a fandom by producing a 20+ min teaser trailer and additional short videos for fun! I guarantee the show they will produce will make money and entertain trekkies everywhere!
Never considered it canon in the first place. Spock had an adopted human sister that Sarek loved better than him?? The Klingon fiascos both in action and appearance. Good grief just let it die and pull it from streaming so that we don't make a mistake and choose it to watch when wanting one of the other series. Strange New Worlds is skating on thin ice with me for what they have done with Spock, T'Pring and Chapel.
I, too, have long since given up hope that we will see the Star Trek again that had accompanied me from childhood into adulthood. The name Skydance definitely doesn't make me jump for joy when it comes to a possible reorientation of the brand, and all the ‘this is just another timeline / parallel universe’ nonsense has divided the franchise since 2009. Will we see another series that relies more on intelligent stories than on expensive sets and effects... whose characters act like professionals and officers (and not like teenagers on a school trip?) before friendships slowly develop over the seasons? Will the studios really be bold enough to let ‘The Message’ rest and show likeable characters again without putting a main focus on skin colour, gender or sexual preferences? And how will the people react who thought Discovery was the best invention since sliced bread? Would long debates about sexism and ableism await us again? I've reached the point where I'd rather see the brand fail completely than see it continue to be reshaped for a barely existent ‘modern audience’
Whoa whoa whoa, moving the timeline forward?! They haven't done that since Voyager! Nope, nope, nope, we need another 25 failed prequel/reboot type projects, because Enterprise and Discovery and all the other modern slop wasn't enough.
Problem is we already have an Enterprise G, thanks to that w⚓️ Matalas. An Enterprise F show would be met with calls for the Enterprise G/Legacy show. Matalas feathered his own nest with Picard S3, as rubbish as it was.
You hear that a lot these days, 'Star Wars is dead, Star Trek is dead', 'Marvel is dead', DC is dead'. I disagree. I think that all these brands are too big to truly die. You can hurt them, and boy are they hurt right now. But all of these brands can just as easily be revived by someone taking the lead and making good products again. Just get someone new and give them the power to make a good product, and within one season, one good movie, you will once again have fans watching and saying, 'I give them one more chance.'
I was never really a believer in Jesus Christ, but since all this woke BS nonsense from across the board over the last 9 years or so it has opened my eyes and mind, and now i pray to the one and only real King, the Lord saviour Jesus, Amen ❤🙏
I disagree as well. Yet, I agree with you. I disagree with those who were like "_Power Rangers_ is dead." I say this: _Power Rangers_ is *not* dead, but we'll always have _Super Sentai._
I have an idea. Make a new Star Trek show that focuses on maintaining the timeline. Have a ship from the future go through time and interact with the different "treks" and their respective stories. You can have episodes where they wear classic 60''s uniforms or stuff from STO. Everyone will be happy if the stories are good and instead of burning it all down, they lift it all up. That's what ST is to me.
What do you mean by "DEI poison"? Lest we forget that both Captains Sisko and Janeway might strike some closed-minded folks even today as diversity hires. Trek has, by and large, always been diverse, and celebrating diversity has often been one of its central themes. Saying they squandered a great legacy with bad writing would be more accurate :)
Both Star Trek and Star Wars can be fixed and renewed. It’s just a matter of budget, writing and actors along with will and unrelenting determination to do it.
It all comes down to good writers. Nicholas Meyer didn't know anything about Star Trek, but created the most beloved Star Trek film because he was versed in literature, and was able to bring novels like Moby Dick into the mix. The experience of the two world wars also created great writers...Lord of the Rings probably wouldn't exist without Tolkien living through WWI and Star Trek probably wouldn't exist without Roddenberry living through WWII. There are too many writers today who haven't really been though hardship, something that would bring depth to their writing.
Sorry but Strange new Worlds to me has to be not canon. Come on Jess Bush (Nurse Chapel) was supposed to be leaving to join the institute (that leads to Corby and all that jazz). But then they do the whole episode with the Gorn and rescue and .. well looks like she'll be a regular in Season 4. So how they do that and say canon boggles my mind.
As much as I find the show okay, I'm also a bit hung-up around the interior of the Enterprise. I know the "it looks too modern!" debate had been done to the point of silliness with the NX-01, but I just find the quarters far too spacious. This Enterprise looks even more luxurious than the D, which just doesn't feel right for the era.
Whether Skydance can fix this depends a lot on their expectations. If they're willing to start small, creating a show for Trek fans then they can win back trust, perhaps then consider bigger things. If instead they go big budget, trying to capture a large audience, it'll be Abrams all over again.
I enjoyed Lower Decks and I'm sad to see it gone. They could've used the budget that went into the failure that will be Section 31 for another season of Lower Decks.
Lower Decks just had one of my favorite ST series finales. While the humor in the show was iffy most of the time, the show itself was a love letter to the salad days of Trek. It also had interesting characters. The main character, Beckett Mariner was the show’s creators making fun of the modern Mary Sue/ girl boss leads. And the finale had the sort of hopeful note that you want from Trek.
It's just too bad Mariner came off at the start AS one of those Modern Mary Sue-Girl Bosses, that any 'making fun' part didn't come on rather obviously. Then again I tuned out after a few episodes. If Lower Decks got better, good for it; but burned one too many times I was out, and didn't want my views to give Secret Hideout and especially Kurtzman anything to clamor onto to keep their jobs. Too bad CBS and Paramount took too damn long to realize their damage to Trek maybe irresversiable.
@@XenoJehuty84 The literal point of Mariner is that she acts like she's good at everything, but the reason she's on the ship is because she screws everything up. That's why she's on a ship where her mom is the Captain. It's her last chance. I'd have to rewatch the first few episodes, but I'm pretty sure they made that clear early on.
@@Taj_Rahine I would watch it. Let's face it, it's too late, no company, director, makes tv shows like in the 90's. It's a thing of the past, it won't come back. Picard, at least season 3 Picard, aknowledged that Star Trek is about continuity with the characters. Discovery tried that with Burnham but she was an insufferable Mary Sue and the other characters weren't better. ST Strange New Worlds is okay. It's simple: just put Discovery in another parallel universe. Why should there be just one or two parallel universes? Go Sliders and voila, problem solved. The Disco fans are happy because their show is still out there and can have its own continuity and the non Disco fans are happy too to be rid of Burnham and co in their prime universe.
@@rosspaulsen3182 I didn’t see it. All I saw was vigorous key jangling and screams of “REMEMBER THIS????” Unfortunately, many Trek fans have been so shellshocked by so much crap and any teeny bit of reference is hailed as a triumph. Just like everyone praising the appearance of Luke Skinwalker in the second season of Grogu & Friends.
@@barmag8802 No one makes tv shows like they were made in the 90’s because they don’t make tv shows at all. Since the beginning of television, a creator would write a show bible and submit to a network. If it gets past that stage, a pitch pilot is shot. If it gets past THAT stage, a season of 20-24 episodes is ordered. If it reaches the end of the season with respectable ratings, it’s renewed for another season. Nowadays, a streaming service, starved for content, will greenlight a “season” or two or FIVE for an obscene amount of money sight unseen (looking in your direction Rings of Power) of what is essentially a movie stretched out with filler. They’re made by movie people, with movie budgets, and have movie actors and released with a movie schedule. That is, they’ll come out whenever they want, sometimes years apart, when one could set their watch on actual television, premiering in the fall and ending in the spring. So, if you ever wonder why the theaters are filled with reboots, remakes, and sequels, all the original ideas are on streaming.
I believe it can be saved. It just takes the courage to flush what hasn’t worked down the toilet and start fresh. Enough prequels or OG refreshes. Move forward from DS9 and the movies into the future. Tell authenticity ST stories like it used to be. I would love to see several series based on the different ST cultures. ST: Federation, ST : Kronos, ST: Romulus, etc and have the series follow a specific crew and flesh out the cultures
The best thing Star Trek can do is take a break for a few years, and then set a new Star Trek series a hundred years after the end of TNG era(Picard Season 3 or Voyager depending on what happens) Move away from TOS and TNG. They are done, finished. Make a clean break with the reboot series with a new crew and Enterprise that's not being weighed down by trying to cram it into existing eras of Trek
it was Midnight's Edge that pointed out, years ago, that the Prime and Kelvin Timelines were alternate realities; they were never genuinely interconnected with Roddenberry Trek. rewritten, retconned and rebooted, the Prime and Kelvin timelines can be wholly disregarded and it would have zero affect in the canon that built and sustained the franchise.
For a while now for me the "prime universe" was always different (and non cannon) from the orginal Star Trek and the follow ups (TNG, DS9 ,Voyager and Enterprise), so removing discoverey from the prime cannon makes no difference to me. Thers still has been no new Star Trek since May 2005.
@@AbsurdShark My adolescence/teens was filled with reading SW books and watching the Sci Fi network. Yeah, SG, ST, SW, are all either dead or dying a painful death. I miss fun science fiction. Everything now is just so bleak and boring.
@@codyblea3638 But not the _Power Rangers._ I'm so hyped about future projects at Hasbro and Paramount. Have faith: #PowerRangersIsNOTDead. #ItsMorphinTime! #GoGoPowerRangers4Ever!
when I was a kid I read comic books in the late 70s to the mid 90s. There's golden age, silver age, and modern age. [truncated failed attempt to explain almost a century of written material most of which is now no longer canon] Suffice to say "canon" got stupid after 1985s Crisis on Infinite Earths came and went in the DC Universe. The publishers don't make decent money off comic book collecting of the old stuff. They want people to buy the new stuff. I abandoned comics by the 21st century but more recently seeing TV and movies about my favorite Marvel and DC characters of the past have been great fun, even tho the new stuff doesn't duplicate the old stuff, it's still fun. The Star Trek Franchise has to accept the same thing. ST:TOS is not going to mesh with ST:SNW and both the fans of Star Trek and those making the new stuff are gonna have to accept that. Temporal physics and other scifi mumbo jumbo simply comes into play, rewriting Star Trek so that what once was canon is now no longer. Perhaps ST:SNW could simply replace ST:TOS in this new variant of the storytelling, since this Christopher Pike knows his death is looming, perhaps he can do something about that, which would totally rewrite the adventures of ST:TOS because in this new timeline, Pike remains captain of the Enterprise, Kirk becomes his Number One, and Spock is the Chief Science Officer. They can retell all those stories from The Corbomite Maneuver onward, and make entirely new stories as well!
No, Star Trek is not getting fixed. It’ll be the same whacked perverse vision it has been since STD began. Calling it a continuation of the 90’s era Trek brand doesn’t make it so.
I interpreted the Lower Decks gag as simply applying to the Klingons of STD rather than STD in general. SNW had already sorta done this by having more proper Klingons appear in SNW's second season and with the choice of Worf's make-up in Picard Final Season.
@@apkk5594 I don't get Americans and their "woke" and "anti-woke". All seems like an American mental aberration to me. Sort of like a specialized Tourette's where all off sudden, in the middle of a conversation, you have a convulsion and start shouting "Woke! Woke!" before recovering and going on normally.
What’s funny is the first episode of Strange New Worlds EXPLICITLY references Discovery’s wormhole to the future as the explanation for the planet developing warp bombs before warp drive. With this reference, how can SNW be canon???
I think at the moment skydance is paying very close attention to what's happening to Disney. To my knowledge skeleton crew is doing so-so in the ratings and viewership. Even though the people who have seen it in reviewed it seemed to love it. So even though it appears that Lucas film seems to be making a course correction it's not paying off just yet. If I were skydance going through with this. I would wait a few years before releasing anything to find out what the real Star Trek fans want.
I heard on another channel that Skydance has okayed 2 seasons of Academy because it would work out cheaper due, props, customs to sets etc etc but remember Kurtzman's contract is up in 2026
I don't care what the "official word is. Star trek ended in 2005. After that there are only "star crap", "we hate everything about star trek" and " we hate star trek fans" movies and series. It's not fan fiction. Its fan hate. Put it to rest for 10 years. They can't produce star trek these days.
Seeing Disco Klingons are in other timelines does not mean they are not also in ours - or in "Prime". TOS and TNG Klingons look completely different also and they are also both cannon.
STD was never the problem, Kurtzman is the problem so merely getting rid of STD is nothing more than papering over the cracks. Kurtzman needs to go and Star Trek needs its soul back telling good stories that allow the audience to make their own minds up again instead of being preached to.
Unless the SNW characters start acting like mature adults and command the original Enterprise, then it's not prime or a prequel. It simply can't be. I dont want to hear any "visual reboot" crap either.
I'm actually a fan of Lower Decks. The writers honor the legacy of Roddenberry's Star Trek. I think if they were in charge of any new Star Trek, it could be pretty good.
All they need to do is have Riker say "Computer, end program". Troi says, "Can you imagine such a terrible eventuality Will? Thank goodness we have these alternate reality timeline programs to show us what horrors COULD have been". And just like that, the entirety of the last 16 years could be erased like a bad Barkley holodeck simulation!
That is a perfect solution. The best solution.
Or they can say that anything seen after 2005 was the product of a drunken Q (not THE Q, a Q) after a centuries long bender.
then they both walk out to the bridge of the USS Titan, in their new Trek series Star Trek: Titan
@@jgood005 Star Trek Titan: T_oo I_nfirm T_o A_ct N_ormally
A show about geriatric "onset of dementia" old people who think they are still in their prime!
Done as a dramedy.
@@jgood005 I think they are a bit too old for that... They should work off the only thing that fans liked in the last two decades - Picard season 3. Some of the crap from season 1 and 2 can be softly retconned, I'm sure. Kinda like what they did with Q in s3.
*To Badly Go Where No Trek Has Gone Before!* 😂
To badly go where no Trekkie ever wants to go.
Discovery + Picard = Discard
season 3 was good
but yes rest is trash
I second that command, Captain!
@@prismaticbeetle3194 It was fine. The plot felt both stretched out and convoluted. It was only cool because we saw the D again.
No it wasn't. The story was trash. @@prismaticbeetle3194
@@prismaticbeetle3194season 3 was somewhat entertaining and had a huge amount of fan service. I enjoyed it for what it was but the story was trash.
*_Star Trek_* is one of the easiest franchises to turn around, and it doesn't even need an in-universe mechanism to do so. All that needs to be done is set a series after the events of *_Voyager_* and have it be that Romulus was never destroyed by a supernova of sorts because it never happened. Don't even reference a supernova; just have Romulus be as its always been.
Yes!!! The supernova is the biggest barrier to Star Trek going forwards, and always has been.
Unless they jump another 70 years into the future past that, like they did with TNG.
@@ReelPopcornGeek I thought that was all an alternative universe anyway. It was never canon in the prime universe as far as I know. Isn't that why it was called the Kelvin timeline?
@@SW0000AThe supernova happened either way, because that was the catalyst for the time travel that created the separate timelines. However, neither "Prime" nor "Kelvin" are associated with Original-Enterprise Canon since they both spring from the alternate license agreement.
Yep but they’ll still ruin it. It’s in their nature.
They can even keep Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Section 31, and Picard. Just turn them into bad hallow novels.
It’s been over for a long time. The fans don’t care anymore. I didn’t even know discovery and lower decks were over, that’s how little I’ve paid attention.
Same. When I was younger I used to want a collection of those Eaglemoss starships. Now I didn't even realize they went bankrupt. Really wouldn't call myself a Star Trek fan, despite loving most of classis Trek, and thats' sad.
Lower deck is worth watching - STD can go to hell
Lower decks is worth a watch even if they over do the swearing and jokes. Past all that they hold the original series and characters in reverence and joke about past things from a place of love and respect.
The characters actually grow and become better as the show goes on they regularly bring back favorite and forgotten characters to give closure and respect to them and address plot holes to almost everything especially with orions.
It’s definitely deserves a chance
@@abrahamnarvaez1730 the overall aesthetic of the show was in the spirit of TNG canon, I can appreciate that. The show respects its universe that it in, but that’s all it wants to be which is a bowl of memberberries. It’s just a trick to get us to watch while the lower decks creators patronize us by giving us what we want by giving us a cartoon version of it. They didn’t take us seriously.
@@abrahamnarvaez1730 fan service is awesome when it’s meaningful, but it wasn’t a serious attempt.
It’s all apocryphal to me, none of this shit is canon
"Hey I have an idea that'll appeal to everyone! See we start off with a minority character, like a woman. Or a black guy. Oh no wait, a black woman! With a MAN'S NAME! Oh that's genius! And...AND...she's half vulcan! But not really, she was just raised by vulcans, see. And she's Spock's secret step-sister. Oh my god this is going to be the best thing ever...."
It's all heretical
@@adamb89😂😂😂 right? Like a ADHD child wrote it
Same. For me, Star Trek ended with Enterprise
That's because you're a fascist ignorant.
Star Trek, in memoriam 1966 - 2005.
I concur
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
@@alexrobinson8029 Why are people like you the way that you are? Did you get dropped on your head too many times?
@@alexrobinson8029 why are you drekkies so hateful?
It's just bait designed to make people react and respond. He's been peppering the comments section with that same comment over and over. Don't feed the trolls the attention they seek.@@LordAnorak
Its not enough getting rid of just Discovery
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
@@alexrobinson8029 LOL get rid of what made Star Trek ? No just get rid of Discovery & everything made by Kurtzmasn & JJ
@TheRan-DomOne Kurtzman and JJ should be de-canonized from everything Star Trek related and everything they made in Star Trek universe.
@@TheRan-DomOnethat guy has been making the same comment about TOS and TNG over and over on this video. He's just an attention seeking troll. It's just bait designed to make people mad so they react and reply. Don't feed the trolls.
@@P.HATHCOX Talking 2 the wrong person here. Fuck Woke Star Trek
Doing 2 seasons of that starfleet academy "back to back" reeks of making one season, but splitting it into 2 seasons. like they are making 12 episodes, but actually 2 6 episode "seasons" (like Loki). I miss when you could lock into 20-30+ episodes seasons of shows
The problem with 20+ episodes is that there are usually 10 episodes of "filler" content that doesn't push the plot along (or does very slowly). Supernatural is a good example as there would be 5-6 episodes initially that pushes the main story along, then 10ish episodes that aren't super related but have some mention of the main plot and then the last 4-6 episodes of the season being about that main plot. It's why I like the way streaming shows are made is that it usually cuts out the fat. I can understand that you would want to have longer seasons, but longer seasons for the sake of it isn't the right answer.
Yep, that seems like it's highly possible there
The contract might be for two seasons, but it might be just one in reality.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
@@BloodKaez- what you call “filler” does in the long run actually serve a purpose of filling in details, backstories, etc.
That is why I think Kurtzman’s Trek hasn’t succeeded in the same way the franchise did with previous series in the past.
In this case, less isn’t more
It's not an alternate time line, It is a parallel universe! Just like the TNG episode Parallels with thousands of Enterprise D's and one from the universe where the Borg won the battle of sector 001. They even showed a scene with an insane Riker that didn't want to close the giant space rift cause it would send them back and the Borg were everywhere. As far as i am concerned Star Trek canon ended when Enterprise was canceled in 2004-2005.
that was the best worf centered episode of next gen.
Technically Enterprise was an altered timeline because the leftover Borg from First Contact are present.
As established previously in Star Trek, a parallel universe would have far more in common with the main timeline. It's clearly an Alternate Universe. Far more separate, and easier to discard into the dustbin of history.
Eh, Enterprise wasn't that good either. Could've been an alternate universe as well for me. When this show wasn't doing as well as expected they came up with what? Time travel and war. Great.
Where in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY had you ever heard about the Xindi war? Nowhere.
Remember "Trials and Tribble-ations", THAT'S how you add time travel and keep timeline and canon intact.
Everything after VOY was from people who gave a shit about Star Trek, who just wanted to build a monument to themselves in the Star Trek universe or simply wanted to change Star Trek into something they could earn more money with.
@@smilingbandit4975 enterprise got real stupid. quit watching before it started getting better. at least thats what people say. but i dont care.
Networks have never had a say as to what is Star Trek canon or not. Canon is for the most part fan consensus, with some actor's input to assist.
TOS fans initial reaction to STD was that because of glaring and deliberate inconsistencies with Roddenberry Trek nothing done by Kurtzman is considered canon, period. That attitude has never changed.
Actors don't get a say, they are hired to pretend to be someone they are not, they will put the effort in to make sure that their character is well liked, has a personality, etc. But no they do not get a say (generally) in Canon.
@@bfth121 Yes, they do. TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT actors often decide canon. You do not know what you are talking about.
When Shatner said Star Trek was never political, it was considered canon. When George Takai said Sulu is straight, that's canon. Bret Spiner often contributes to Data's canon on fan panels.
Roddenberry Trek actors contribute to canon all the time, just read the fan magazines.
It ain't complicated. SCREW NU TREK! That simple. Problem solved.
@MindHunger Correct. Just think about Nemoy and what he had to say about Spock.
And that attitude doesn't change Discovery is canon and prime timeline. And yes, I am a TOS fan. You aren't peaking for everyone.
The cleansing fire for Star Trek has come, to cleanse Kurtzman legacy and write about the dark history... or the eulogy if the fans don't come back after hearing that decanon of STD.
Technically what Lower Decks did was only showing that there is at least one alternate universe where Klingorcs exist at the time of Lower Decks (a few years after TNG and DS9). Also the crossover between Lower Decks and SNW makes it practically impossible for Lower Decks to remove SNW from the prime timeline while staying itself in the prime timeline.
Maybe Lower Decks is in the Star Trek TAS canon and that portal brought them over.
Pike: Mr Boimler, I'd like to introduce you to Commodore Robert April.
Boimler: ... WTF?!!!😲
Always remember, Prime =/= Classic Canon.
@@PoliceTelephoneBox Thanks, I was of course referring to the classic timeline of TNG and DS9.
Snw does enough in its own show to decanonize itself. the gorn weren't encountered until the tos episode "arena" unlike in snw where they are already the main baddie. Also in snw Kahn gets born much later than he should and the eugenics wars happen much later, this is due to time travelling romulans mucking things up. In that episode they stop the romulans from doing more damage but don't change any of that other stuff. Snw does more in its own show to make it an alternate timeline than anything an outside thing can do lol
@@Demiurge13 Retcons aside, Strange New Worlds, as far as I recall, only has two ties to Discovery that would be rather easy to fix. One is that Pike has clearly experienced something with the time crystals from Discovery, which would just need a new flashback or exposition to prop up and replace the original storyline. Then there is the one actual reference to Discovery, Spock saying something like "I miss my sister" in one episode. Just delete or redub the line. Of course, I'm in the minority that loathes Discovery but likes SNW so that may not be adequate for many.
Everyone should watch Lower Decks. It takes place right after Voyager gets home. It's everything we wanted from a live action show.
Lower Decks is just incredible. I’m saddened how many people write it off because it’s ’a cartoon’. It has some of the most ‘starfleet’ moments of any trek series since VOY.
That Cali class rally against the Alito was just *chef’s kiss*.
Lower Decks is legit one of my favourite ST shows. Prob 2nd after TNG. It's incredible.
I may finally give it a shot after all this. I have never watched a single episode yet.
@@tcsnowdream9975 I loved when it went live action and crossed over to Strange New Worlds. That added a lot of weight to it for me.
When they visit DS9 it’s incredible. I just rewatched DS9 and then Season 3 DS9 on Lower Decks directly afterwards. It picks the universe back up.
When I pointed this out a couple of years ago, i was accused of being a German fanatic from the 1930s! Well, as Klingons would tell those people, I hope their bird is left in the sun too long! 🍽️🦃🍗
😆😂🤣
This is a good start. Everything after Enterprise needs to be decanonized
100% agree. Every post-Enterprise, including the JJ movies needs to be deleted.
Well maybe some Retcons in the series like removing the temporal Cold War story arch. And focus more on the build up & during the Romulan-Earth war
Exactly.
I can possibly accept the first JJ Trek movie as an alternate universe timeline but I can't cope with Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan 🤦♂️
Even Enterprise should be the canonized because it didn't follow any of the previous lore
I watched season 1 of Discovery forever ago and hated it. The other day I contemplated watching season 2 just to say that I'd watched it. I ended up watching Fellowship of the Ring for probably the 50th time instead. I just don't care about Star Trek anymore.
But.. but the feelings! lol
Discovery is a turd sandwich 🤮
I loved just a few aspects of _Discovery,_ including the music score and the Power Ranger-esque Starfleet uniforms that were first seen in season four. I'll always relive _Trek_ classics, despite the franchise being among my honorable mentions.
I only watched parts of the first episode. Never watched anymore. I do like Critical Drinker critique of the series. He's the only thing that made it entertaining by exposing it.
Thank God Spock’s Brain remains canon. I’ll watch and re-watch that rather than the dreck that passes for Trek today.
LOL. Brain and brain! What is brain?!
@ That dialogue will go down in galactic history, and will be spoken and revered in millennia to come, along with other notable names and phrases like Leonard James Aka’ar, Spocko, Harcourt Fenton Mudd, it is better to rule in Hell than serve in heaven, it’s green, that unprincipled, evil-minded, lecherous, kulak, Harry Mudd programmed you?, followed by this place is even better than Leningrad . . .
You've been promoted. Please report to the Bridge Mr.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
@@alexrobinson8029 you see triggered drekkie lol. i can understand why.
I'm not interested in Star Trek Academy. Why would this show be different from the crap they have been peddling?
It could have been worse. Imagine Star Trek: Skeleton Crew.
Personally, I would've preferred an Academy series that was set in the Lower Decks era instead of the Discoverse.
@clangerbasher Trek has already done Skeleton Crew with Prodigy. It wasn't a bad series imo.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
I’ve personally given up on the franchise but I’m also getting rather old and have had decades to feast on more palatable fare before anyone attempted to force feed me swill so I feel more satiated. I’ll leave it up to younger and more eager fans to decide if whatever direction it takes is worth the effort.
Sadly I and the fans can’t afford to give up… because the people who ruined good IP’s are still out there, and when they cut free of one IP, they’ll drift to another and ruin that one too.
This isn’t just a fight for Trek. This is a fight for the consumer having the right to have their opinion heard and acted upon to keep bad actors like Kurtzman and KK out of power so people of merit based performance can take their place.
@@davfree9732 Yes, like it appears might be happening with LOTR.
There’s over a hundred years worth of entertainment far better than the sludge that has been oozing out of Hollywood over the last decade, and thanks to services like Pluto TV and Tubi, not to mention my own library, I need not watch one second of “current year” crap.
I'm 57 years old. Modern Star Trek doesn'r exist for me. I haven't wasted a single precious minute watching Alex Kurtman's dross.
Wasn't Spock's Brain a perfect episode. Way to Eden too. Oh and Plato's Step children. True works of art. Whom God's destroy too. Stupendous.
I think the reaction to the short, Unification is proof, fans will return if you treat thevfranchise, and by extension, the fans, with respect. So get rid of Kurtzman and his mess, and you are good
Some of Unification was built on from events in the Movie "Star Trek Beyond" and from Season 3 of "Star Trek: Picard". I will give you a few examples, Captain Kirk's body being at Daystrom Station and showing life signs and the saucer section of the Enterprise-D being retrieved from Veridian III were both from Season 3 of "Star Trek: Picard" and they were briefly shown in Unification and then when Kirk was walking up to Spock on his death bed, he passed by a small case on the table that held inside of it the photo of Kirk, Spock, and the crew (from "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier") and it was the same case that Zachary Quinto's Spock got in "Star Trek Beyond".
@ttanza4004 ..................cool
agreed.
The fans never left. Only the posers left.
@adama7774 obviously you know alot about being a poser
Problem is that I really doubt most people will care either way at this point.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
There are a lot of Trekkies who just got one of their best Christmas presents. The de-canonizing of STD is by far one of the best things that happened in Star Trek for a long time and a lot of Trekkies appreciate it.
I would argue the decanonization extends to even SNW, Picard, and Lower Decks as well as each of the series have references to STD as though it were still canon. It's a domino effect, effectively splitting all of Kurtzman Trek into its own separate (but parallel) timeline. It's similar to the canon timeline of ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, but excludes everything made after ENT ended production in the early 2000s.
This needs to be what happens. That way, true Trekkies have the untainted core canon of Trek's golden age, while the dwindling Nu-Trek fanbase can have their slop on the side. Everyone is happy as the classics remain untouched in their own canon timeline, and the slop can do whatever it wants on its own timeline. This needs to be made official as it will please the most fans overall.
A similar move needs to be made with Star Wars as everything made after the Disney purchase of Lucasfilm needs to be formally declared an alternate reality so that all the Disney Star Wars slop is removed from the True, Pre-Disney Canon. Star Trek and Paramount just proved that it can be done and the positive fan reactions to such a move should motivate more decanonizations like this. It just proves that the fandoms can be saved! All it takes is the magical phrase "It's an alternate universe" to be said by the higher ups. Just say it Paramount, just say it Disney, and listen to the rejoicing of the fans as all the slop that's been peddled gets erased from the true canons!
With the "world between worlds" thingie, maybe.
Did LD reference STD?
@@nonyabisness6306 No but they did have that crossover with SNW which did consider STD as canon. They may be trying to paint it as SNW is separate from STD but there's still been too many STD references in SNW for it not to count.
SNW is fun but also in an alt timeline, as they admit that the Eugenics Wars got shifted from 1992-1996 to around WW3. That alone means SNW is in a new timeline.
@@Boskov01 did they specify that the crossover was just time-travel? otherwise it may have been alternate reality as well.
i think the guardian of forever for example is time-travel + dimension hopping.
Put James Cawley from star trek phase 2 (new voyages) in charge, he loves the Star Trek franchise and is someone who could make Star Trek great again as he has demonstrated his deep understanding of the brand and the fans
It would at least be an indication to the fans that they're serious about revving the franchise. Question is, is the franchise already dead?
@@gcwyatt Yes it is dead, the member-berries Star Trek was Rodenberry/ Berman, the new take is Rodenberry Jr/ Kurtzman.
Why people need to have a storm in a teacup about it is beyond me. 🤷♂
Don't believe any of it until it's history. Every time we think Kurseman is out, he pops up again.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
Does anything this midnight edge guy says actually happen?
@@temparalflux914 a broken clock is still right twice a day...
Make up a bunch of bullshit, sooner or later some of it will be true. Or at least true enough they can perform vast mental gymnastics to try and claim they were right.
Haha totally. They are fun videos to watch cause the theories and such are insane to float out but majority of this won’t pan out at all. These trek shows whether we like or not are still canon the creator of lower decks knew exactly what he was doing so gotta love him for that. Sad to see the show go of course.
Wait, so Strange New Worlds is still canon, despite having an entire episode at the start of it focussing on an alien race nearly destroying themselves because they merely saw from long-range the events at the end of Discovery season 2 with the whole control battle? Come on!
I do believe in the airlock shot we see James Bond villain Hugo Drax being sucked into space ... nice :) As for Trek, if Skydance make a clean sweep, make it a public one and don't try to hide anything and then follow that up with a series that looks and feels like Trek from the original shows then the fans will come back. However if there is a whiff of Kurtzman Trek anywhere then they won't.
In-universe retconning reeks of contrivance. They’d be better off not trying to explain anything. Just restart from a stable back-up point the way you would do with a computer and announce you are starting fresh in the trades.
It’s not exactly a retcon. No one could seriously argue that Discovery was from the same universe as classic Trek. Lower Decks has never actually touched upon the NuTrek shows, save for one episode crossing over with SNW. And the finale touched more upon the themes of the TNG finale.
I watched ST5 not too long ago, a lot of people say it's one of the crappiest of the ST films, but to see the old crew, that magic, the banter, and to be honest, a story that isn't as silly as some of the Original series were, I'd take that film 100 times over anything that's come since 2009! That's right, I went there...
ST5 has great inter character moments and developments and Sybock was even an interesting villain its just a shame the overall movie was poor.
ST 5 is underrated. It’s got some silly stuff, but also some of the best character moments in the entire series. Row, row, row your boat gently down the steam..
I believe it can be saved. But it's not going to easy or fast. They burned a lot of bridges with fans. They're going to have to rebuild them.
I’ll believe it when I see it, but if Skydance do decanonize STD, and hopefully everything else after ENT, they’ll also remove the Star Trek name from them too if possible.
Yes. JJ Abrams started the deviations.
@@mflax4331 I can still remember when everybody foolishly waved jar jar's banner when he first showed up. I told you all then that the lens flaring was a sign of incompetence , but everybody went full retard about how good he was... how good was he again?...
To be honest, I don't mind a _Star Trek_ equivalent of _Star Wars Legends._
Bad Robot trek isn't fan-fiction, it's Hater-fiction.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
Everything that came after Enterprise should be removed from existence.
damn right Enterprise IMO was the last Star Trek series, kurtz trek isn't even as good as many fan films made for way less
Enterprise, too, since it broke canon a thousand times.
Enterprise because of it's 80's car commercial theme song. Only save the Mirror Universe theme song episodes.
@DarkShadowalker Enterprise is the best series. People who whine about the theme song are shallow.
@@MrSprigg That's a funny way to spell "worst".
After the live action fan film with Kirk got all that positive attention? Nah, there's still hope for Trek going forward.
I know right? I was rather good in it I thought ☺
I hope that Paramount will come out and say that Star Trek Continues is canon. That, I think, will show that they are serious about building bridges that were burnt down by Kurtzman.
To me, all modern trek is alt u. Nothing wrong with that. The TNG episode “parallels” showed there were many nearly identical alt universes, and you can do a whole butcher trek that’s slightly AU and thus not trading the prime universe. Wisely, JJ Abrams did something like this with the movies
The damage is not too great.
I am willing to give a different creative team a chance. As long as Kurtzman has nothing to do with it.
If it's good, maybe I can like new new Trek as much as I love old Trek. But honestly, if it's bad, I think I might just give up on new Trek forever.
Basically, this is the last chance to get it right. Either Skydance pulls it off or Trek is over.
I know for certain there is one emotional reaction; mine. And it's one of pure joy to hear that Discovery might be consigned to non-canon. Pure joy, what a christmas gift! Nature is healing.
All of this might be the Picard Season 3 effect! I read Alex Kurtman was upset over some of what Terry Matalas did in that season, especially episode 6, one of my favorite episode behind episode 9! 😆 And if im correct Kurtman had nothing to do with the Unification short film! Paramount let Ari Emanuel, Kevin Feige, the Okadas. and Terry Matalas help put that film together. Seeing Fiege attact to it doesn't surprise me. I remember reading something saying he was a Star Trek fan and did the Endgame credits like Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered County. You can definitely see the similarities in it
I think you’re right, it was why Matalas ‘left’
Oh, I absolutely loved Season 3 of "Star Trek: Picard".
Gen X are just too old to care anymore and millennials/gen z didn't care to begin with.
They didn't really have anything good from Star Trek to be exited about.
You can't dish out 2 decades of trash and expect your old customers to hang around or any new to come in.
Lower Decks brought in a ton of new, younger fans.
With a lot of people you failed to realize… Including the creator of this video… Is that not all content is aimed at them anymore.
This is like going to Nickelodeon and being upset that they’re not catering to 30 and 40-year-olds.
The genre and the shows need to adapt for each generation and each audience.
there is no such things as too much damage. If it is good, people will see it. the problem will be about the publicity. If the public see the difference, they will try it.
Yeah, but after so much BS they need a very long breath and lots of cash for ads and infos. But whom are fans to trust? Them shills: never.
It's dead, Jim.
Remember the clever explanation for why Klingons in T.O.S. looked different than they did later? It took a few episodes to unfold but it was superbly crafted. Nobody really dies in sci-fi, and anything can be explained as well.
Now if this could happen to the last few seasons of doctor who we would be happy
The UK would need their own version of Trump for that to happen lol
damn skippy!
Skydance is a major reason why Paramount s in the situation its in
Can someone clarify what exactly is going on with Skydance? Are they buying Paramount? Are they just gonna be in control of Star Trek as partners? I’m confused.
they bought them for 8 billion however it won't be finalized until September. Which still gives Kirkman a year to mess around.
@ so no more paramount? Sky dance will own Star Trek? What about CBS how does that work?
@@davecue2 CBS will be a Skydance business.
@@davecue2 yes they are buying CBS and everything that is paramount global. It sold for a shockingly small amount. 8 billion for everything, most of which was purchased in stocks. They had a partial merger going back as far as 2009. Skydance co-produced everything since then. But they've decided to buy out their partner and take creative control
Did they EVER explain how and why a KHAN descendent was on the Enterprise and Kirk never knew?
Let Riker do it (Johnattan Frakes)
Hire the team that produced "Star Trek Axanar". They gained a fandom by producing a 20+ min teaser trailer and additional short videos for fun!
I guarantee the show they will produce will make money and entertain trekkies everywhere!
Never considered it canon in the first place. Spock had an adopted human sister that Sarek loved better than him?? The Klingon fiascos both in action and appearance. Good grief just let it die and pull it from streaming so that we don't make a mistake and choose it to watch when wanting one of the other series. Strange New Worlds is skating on thin ice with me for what they have done with Spock, T'Pring and Chapel.
I, too, have long since given up hope that we will see the Star Trek again that had accompanied me from childhood into adulthood.
The name Skydance definitely doesn't make me jump for joy when it comes to a possible reorientation of the brand, and all the ‘this is just another timeline / parallel universe’ nonsense has divided the franchise since 2009.
Will we see another series that relies more on intelligent stories than on expensive sets and effects... whose characters act like professionals and officers (and not like teenagers on a school trip?) before friendships slowly develop over the seasons? Will the studios really be bold enough to let ‘The Message’ rest and show likeable characters again without putting a main focus on skin colour, gender or sexual preferences? And how will the people react who thought Discovery was the best invention since sliced bread? Would long debates about sexism and ableism await us again?
I've reached the point where I'd rather see the brand fail completely than see it continue to be reshaped for a barely existent ‘modern audience’
How about a New Crew for the Enterprise F?
That's a good idea, actually, put a new show after the events of Voyager and ignore all the prequel shit.
Whoa whoa whoa, moving the timeline forward?! They haven't done that since Voyager! Nope, nope, nope, we need another 25 failed prequel/reboot type projects, because Enterprise and Discovery and all the other modern slop wasn't enough.
@@jgood005 lol 😆
Imagine if the , Enterprise F had slip stream tech that Voyager had aquired, I know creative thinking is hard for these ppl 😆 🤣 😂
Problem is we already have an Enterprise G, thanks to that w⚓️ Matalas. An Enterprise F show would be met with calls for the Enterprise G/Legacy show. Matalas feathered his own nest with Picard S3, as rubbish as it was.
Two Lower Deck characters appeared in a SNW episode. So doesn’t that make SNW canon and in prime universe?
You hear that a lot these days, 'Star Wars is dead, Star Trek is dead', 'Marvel is dead', DC is dead'.
I disagree. I think that all these brands are too big to truly die. You can hurt them, and boy are they hurt right now. But all of these brands can just as easily be revived by someone taking the lead and making good products again. Just get someone new and give them the power to make a good product, and within one season, one good movie, you will once again have fans watching and saying, 'I give them one more chance.'
I was never really a believer in Jesus Christ, but since all this woke BS nonsense from across the board over the last 9 years or so it has opened my eyes and mind, and now i pray to the one and only real King, the Lord saviour Jesus, Amen ❤🙏
Thank you for not preaching doom and gloom like the rest optimism is sorely needed. Like dr. Phlox
I disagree as well. Yet, I agree with you. I disagree with those who were like "_Power Rangers_ is dead." I say this: _Power Rangers_ is *not* dead, but we'll always have _Super Sentai._
I have an idea. Make a new Star Trek show that focuses on maintaining the timeline. Have a ship from the future go through time and interact with the different "treks" and their respective stories. You can have episodes where they wear classic 60''s uniforms or stuff from STO. Everyone will be happy if the stories are good and instead of burning it all down, they lift it all up. That's what ST is to me.
Now here😮 is a man who is thinking!👍🏻🙂
DS9 is one of the best TV shows of all time, and Voyager and TNG were also very good. Paramount squandered such a great legacy with the DEI poison.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
What do you mean by "DEI poison"? Lest we forget that both Captains Sisko and Janeway might strike some closed-minded folks even today as diversity hires. Trek has, by and large, always been diverse, and celebrating diversity has often been one of its central themes.
Saying they squandered a great legacy with bad writing would be more accurate :)
Both Star Trek and Star Wars can be fixed and renewed. It’s just a matter of budget, writing and actors along with will and unrelenting determination to do it.
Can't decanonize discovery without getting rid of everything post 2009. Everything is too interconnected
I don't see a problem there.
@@solgoode1me too
Removing discovery from canon is awesome,if only it could be removed from existence.
Confused people living in alternative Universe...
Indeed, Confused people are "oppressed" by Reality.
Fans will return. But only if you show respect and bring the quality.
They need to turn it over to the people that made Unification.
Fans are ‘excited’ at the prospect of a major segment of a story being straight up retconned. That just proves how stellar the writing for it was.
Klutzman destroyed it.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
I'm more and more subscribing to the view that Nemesis killed Star Trek and nothing we've had since is actually Star Trek.
I was a Star Trek Fan but that ended with the new Shows, it seems everything new turns to SHT.
You're not a Star Trek Fan.
Star trek ended in 2005.
It all comes down to good writers. Nicholas Meyer didn't know anything about Star Trek, but created the most beloved Star Trek film because he was versed in literature, and was able to bring novels like Moby Dick into the mix. The experience of the two world wars also created great writers...Lord of the Rings probably wouldn't exist without Tolkien living through WWI and Star Trek probably wouldn't exist without Roddenberry living through WWII. There are too many writers today who haven't really been though hardship, something that would bring depth to their writing.
Sorry but Strange new Worlds to me has to be not canon. Come on Jess Bush (Nurse Chapel) was supposed to be leaving to join the institute (that leads to Corby and all that jazz). But then they do the whole episode with the Gorn and rescue and .. well looks like she'll be a regular in Season 4. So how they do that and say canon boggles my mind.
As much as I find the show okay, I'm also a bit hung-up around the interior of the Enterprise. I know the "it looks too modern!" debate had been done to the point of silliness with the NX-01, but I just find the quarters far too spacious. This Enterprise looks even more luxurious than the D, which just doesn't feel right for the era.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
Whether Skydance can fix this depends a lot on their expectations. If they're willing to start small, creating a show for Trek fans then they can win back trust, perhaps then consider bigger things. If instead they go big budget, trying to capture a large audience, it'll be Abrams all over again.
There is Zero room for a Spocks DEI half sister with a man’s name in Star Trek. This is the proof.
Jeez did you go 5 minutes without mentioning DEI or woke? Please STFU
Strange new worlds and picard s1-2 need to be removed from canon as well.
Retcon Kurtzman trek is the only way to save trek. Even then a lot of the enthusiasm is just gone and needs to be rebuilt.
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
I enjoyed Lower Decks and I'm sad to see it gone. They could've used the budget that went into the failure that will be Section 31 for another season of Lower Decks.
Lower Decks just had one of my favorite ST series finales. While the humor in the show was iffy most of the time, the show itself was a love letter to the salad days of Trek. It also had interesting characters. The main character, Beckett Mariner was the show’s creators making fun of the modern Mary Sue/ girl boss leads. And the finale had the sort of hopeful note that you want from Trek.
Good to know! I thought LD was set up as male bashing woke trash.
It's just too bad Mariner came off at the start AS one of those Modern Mary Sue-Girl Bosses, that any 'making fun' part didn't come on rather obviously. Then again I tuned out after a few episodes. If Lower Decks got better, good for it; but burned one too many times I was out, and didn't want my views to give Secret Hideout and especially Kurtzman anything to clamor onto to keep their jobs. Too bad CBS and Paramount took too damn long to realize their damage to Trek maybe irresversiable.
@@XenoJehuty84 The literal point of Mariner is that she acts like she's good at everything, but the reason she's on the ship is because she screws everything up. That's why she's on a ship where her mom is the Captain. It's her last chance. I'd have to rewatch the first few episodes, but I'm pretty sure they made that clear early on.
lower decks really grew on me and turned out to be the best of nu-trek.
Terry Matalas showed love and appreciation for what came before wirh Picard S3. If he can given his ties to SH, give him Star Trek
VERY Good idea! 👍🏽
Not sold on that idea. He did much better, but it wasn’t good Trek in reality. I don’t want to see a new era based on Picard season 3 as the bar.
@@Taj_Rahine I would watch it. Let's face it, it's too late, no company, director, makes tv shows like in the 90's. It's a thing of the past, it won't come back. Picard, at least season 3 Picard, aknowledged that Star Trek is about continuity with the characters. Discovery tried that with Burnham but she was an insufferable Mary Sue and the other characters weren't better. ST Strange New Worlds is okay.
It's simple: just put Discovery in another parallel universe. Why should there be just one or two parallel universes? Go Sliders and voila, problem solved. The Disco fans are happy because their show is still out there and can have its own continuity and the non Disco fans are happy too to be rid of Burnham and co in their prime universe.
@@rosspaulsen3182 I didn’t see it. All I saw was vigorous key jangling and screams of “REMEMBER THIS????” Unfortunately, many Trek fans have been so shellshocked by so much crap and any teeny bit of reference is hailed as a triumph. Just like everyone praising the appearance of Luke Skinwalker in the second season of Grogu & Friends.
@@barmag8802 No one makes tv shows like they were made in the 90’s because they don’t make tv shows at all. Since the beginning of television, a creator would write a show bible and submit to a network. If it gets past that stage, a pitch pilot is shot. If it gets past THAT stage, a season of 20-24 episodes is ordered. If it reaches the end of the season with respectable ratings, it’s renewed for another season. Nowadays, a streaming service, starved for content, will greenlight a “season” or two or FIVE for an obscene amount of money sight unseen (looking in your direction Rings of Power) of what is essentially a movie stretched out with filler. They’re made by movie people, with movie budgets, and have movie actors and released with a movie schedule. That is, they’ll come out whenever they want, sometimes years apart, when one could set their watch on actual television, premiering in the fall and ending in the spring. So, if you ever wonder why the theaters are filled with reboots, remakes, and sequels, all the original ideas are on streaming.
I believe it can be saved. It just takes the courage to flush what hasn’t worked down the toilet and start fresh.
Enough prequels or OG refreshes. Move forward from DS9 and the movies into the future. Tell authenticity ST stories like it used to be.
I would love to see several series based on the different ST cultures. ST: Federation, ST : Kronos, ST: Romulus, etc and have the series follow a specific crew and flesh out the cultures
The best thing Star Trek can do is take a break for a few years, and then set a new Star Trek series a hundred years after the end of TNG era(Picard Season 3 or Voyager depending on what happens)
Move away from TOS and TNG. They are done, finished.
Make a clean break with the reboot series with a new crew and Enterprise that's not being weighed down by trying to cram it into existing eras of Trek
Funny enough… Lower decks has set that up almost perfectly.
I’m too old … no time to wait!
it was Midnight's Edge that pointed out, years ago, that the Prime and Kelvin Timelines were alternate realities; they were never genuinely interconnected with Roddenberry Trek. rewritten, retconned and rebooted, the Prime and Kelvin timelines can be wholly disregarded and it would have zero affect in the canon that built and sustained the franchise.
SNW references disco, therefore should be stricken from cannon
Things are looking up. #Fix trek
What about hiring the team over at Axanar?
I hope they de-canonize The Original Series and The Next Generation!
For a while now for me the "prime universe" was always different (and non cannon) from the orginal Star Trek and the follow ups (TNG, DS9 ,Voyager and Enterprise), so removing discoverey from the prime cannon makes no difference to me. Thers still has been no new Star Trek since May 2005.
I feel bad for Star Trek fans.
Star Trek and Star Wars fans are united in pain.
@@AbsurdShark My adolescence/teens was filled with reading SW books and watching the Sci Fi network. Yeah, SG, ST, SW, are all either dead or dying a painful death.
I miss fun science fiction. Everything now is just so bleak and boring.
Because stupid idiots took a gag way out of context
STD is not decanonized. PERIOD
I love being a Trekkie, but my #1 entertainment franchise is a tie between _Power Rangers_ and _Super Sentai._
@@codyblea3638 But not the _Power Rangers._ I'm so hyped about future projects at Hasbro and Paramount. Have faith: #PowerRangersIsNOTDead. #ItsMorphinTime! #GoGoPowerRangers4Ever!
when I was a kid I read comic books in the late 70s to the mid 90s. There's golden age, silver age, and modern age. [truncated failed attempt to explain almost a century of written material most of which is now no longer canon] Suffice to say "canon" got stupid after 1985s Crisis on Infinite Earths came and went in the DC Universe. The publishers don't make decent money off comic book collecting of the old stuff. They want people to buy the new stuff. I abandoned comics by the 21st century but more recently seeing TV and movies about my favorite Marvel and DC characters of the past have been great fun, even tho the new stuff doesn't duplicate the old stuff, it's still fun. The Star Trek Franchise has to accept the same thing. ST:TOS is not going to mesh with ST:SNW and both the fans of Star Trek and those making the new stuff are gonna have to accept that. Temporal physics and other scifi mumbo jumbo simply comes into play, rewriting Star Trek so that what once was canon is now no longer. Perhaps ST:SNW could simply replace ST:TOS in this new variant of the storytelling, since this Christopher Pike knows his death is looming, perhaps he can do something about that, which would totally rewrite the adventures of ST:TOS because in this new timeline, Pike remains captain of the Enterprise, Kirk becomes his Number One, and Spock is the Chief Science Officer. They can retell all those stories from The Corbomite Maneuver onward, and make entirely new stories as well!
Interesting premise. Outstanding idea thanks for not being a hater
No, Star Trek is not getting fixed. It’ll be the same whacked perverse vision it has been since STD began. Calling it a continuation of the 90’s era Trek brand doesn’t make it so.
If they want views and merch, put Terry Matalas in charge and give us LEGACY. Easy money its what the fans want.
I'm so down for more #TerryTrek.
How the turns have tabled!
I interpreted the Lower Decks gag as simply applying to the Klingons of STD rather than STD in general. SNW had already sorta done this by having more proper Klingons appear in SNW's second season and with the choice of Worf's make-up in Picard Final Season.
lower decks was awesome and this made it even better 😄
I'm glad someone else thought it was good. I appreciate some might think it a little woke, but I thought it was quite good and worth watching.
I really enjoyed it too.
It was fun at times once you got past the high pitched hyperactivity of most of the characters but it was generally entertaining.
@@apkk5594 I don't get Americans and their "woke" and "anti-woke". All seems like an American mental aberration to me. Sort of like a specialized Tourette's where all off sudden, in the middle of a conversation, you have a convulsion and start shouting "Woke! Woke!" before recovering and going on normally.
@ and considering how non entertaining tv has been in the last decade that’s saying something.
What’s funny is the first episode of Strange New Worlds EXPLICITLY references Discovery’s wormhole to the future as the explanation for the planet developing warp bombs before warp drive. With this reference, how can SNW be canon???
I think at the moment skydance is paying very close attention to what's happening to Disney. To my knowledge skeleton crew is doing so-so in the ratings and viewership. Even though the people who have seen it in reviewed it seemed to love it. So even though it appears that Lucas film seems to be making a course correction it's not paying off just yet.
If I were skydance going through with this. I would wait a few years before releasing anything to find out what the real Star Trek fans want.
Lots of prior BS, needs lots of making good stuff to erase our memories and fears.
I heard on another channel that Skydance has okayed 2 seasons of Academy because it would work out cheaper due, props, customs to sets etc etc but remember Kurtzman's contract is up in 2026
I don't care what the "official word is.
Star trek ended in 2005.
After that there are only "star crap", "we hate everything about star trek" and " we hate star trek fans" movies and series.
It's not fan fiction. Its fan hate.
Put it to rest for 10 years. They can't produce star trek these days.
EVERY Star Trek movie and TV series produced/filmed after May 13, 2005 is NON-CANON
Happy New Year, Andre, and to the entire ME crew ❤🎉
Seeing Disco Klingons are in other timelines does not mean they are not also in ours - or in "Prime". TOS and TNG Klingons look completely different also and they are also both cannon.
STD was never the problem, Kurtzman is the problem so merely getting rid of STD is nothing more than papering over the cracks. Kurtzman needs to go and Star Trek needs its soul back telling good stories that allow the audience to make their own minds up again instead of being preached to.
I was pretty sure Strange New Worlds would remain Prime Universe if Lower Decks remained Prime as they had that crossover episode.
Unless the SNW characters start acting like mature adults and command the original Enterprise, then it's not prime or a prequel. It simply can't be.
I dont want to hear any "visual reboot" crap either.
I'm actually a fan of Lower Decks. The writers honor the legacy of Roddenberry's Star Trek. I think if they were in charge of any new Star Trek, it could be pretty good.
Agreed. _Prodigy_ honors that legacy as well.
Kudos my freind