Don't use the rear brake?
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2023
- In this video I'll explain why you should try not using the rear brake when practicing low speed tight turns.
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Hi Jerry, I've been riding motorcycles for more than 36 years now but still learn a lot from you almost every single week! Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Just about to post the same thought. 48 years of dirt bikes, crotch-rockets and now 3 Harleys. Never took a class, but I WAS an instructor in the Navy... and after listening to Jerry for the first time, I can say that he is an excellent teacher.
His ability to turn his decades of experience into clearly articulated words of wisdom is truly a gift.
I been riding. For 53 year’s and I will tell you the secret to braking. Just don’t speed or tail gate and. Never. Pass a old person without saying a Prayer. Be. Patient. Never. Ride mad or under the influence. I just had a friend of mine’s friend. Ride mad and under influence and now he has one foot. That’s right he lost his right foot. And he has a family with five kids and a wife. And he knew. Better. He was a. First Responder. So sad
Thanks for all the videos. I've been riding for 50 years, but always good to receive refresher information. Especially after recoveries from surgeries. Stay say in the Wind!
I absolutely LOVE these videos and your channel. Thanks so much for these.
Great video
Your Tip turning head and eye using clutch throttle rear brake, I can hardly wait to get off work to practice that slow maneuvers are the hardest to learn. Thank you for your ride video tips.
Very happy i subscribed a week ago. Like other have said been riding forever but hearing what I do subconsciously in words of someone I respect really reinforces the muscle memory. Got a bunch of buddies in blue, now I got a motorcycle mentor too.
Welcome aboard!
As always! Nice job explaining. You have helped me grow as a rider (HA! And I'm old). Thanks
good segment and demos as always.
Hi Motorman. As a rider from Australia, thank you for showing right hand u-turns as well.
No problem 👍
You make it look easy. Love your videos.
Thank you!
Great for clutch control. I love it!
Thanks for the tips MotorMan!
Jerry, nice information. Thank you
I remember when I decided to take a course from a retired CAHP officer in California and he’s been riding for more years and I can imagine and that’s what he told me he says I can tell you wrote dirt bikes you going to be kind of by threes but remember this every point your eyes in your head that’s with that bike is going to go and you just said it or you point your eyes in your head I never forgot that I did actually saved my life
Hey Motorman, thanks for reminding me I don't need a giant parking lot to practice
Thanks much Jerry! As always - good stuff 👍👍
Very welcome
Good practical information and practice
You are spot on Motorman
I live up north in Massachusetts. I tried some practice turns in a school parking lot. The front wheel would almost slide out from under me. I realized that there were tar snakes. When the asphalt has long cracks in them, they fill the cracks with liquid tar. When it hardens, it is slippery. Alot of parking lots are like that. I'll have to find another place to practice. Thanks for all your videos!!
Only in America.....
So this is interesting.. I think for some beginners and some very casual riders who arent very savvy or technical and work to improve, its best not to confuse with too many options. What you learn first is primacy and should be drilled into second nature so in a panic situation, theres no options or confusions. For folks who train and ride and continually learn, its an evolution that could work. I also line the slight weight transfer that I induce with light braking.
I've been riding Harleys since I was 16, panhead as a matter of fact, and always used rear brake. Now in my 60s, But now I have nerve damage in my right leg, and it doesn't work as well. I purchased your ride like a pro videos and manual and practiced it without rear brake. It took some time, but I mastered it. Thank you for what you do for us.
I'm happy to have helped.
I was hoping sometime you could talk about just using the back break, like I ride here and there on a lot of gravel and I know to just use the back break lightly, anyways 👍 Motorman thanks for the video and be safe everyone 🙏
I use my front brake way more than my rear brake. I use both in straight stopping or straight riding to bring the momentum down equally. I also practice picturing an imaginary bike lane in the regular car lane than I practice staying within it usually where a car driver would sit.
As a former flattrack racer, I learned to use the rear brake to set up for corners... a quick turn in with a slight rear brake application is often used to set up your slide. However, on the road racing circuits, I soon learned that rear brake is a no-no on the racetrack. And after over 50 years on motorcycles, I now only use the rear brake to drag on a bit when doing slow speed u-turns in parking lots. The sport bikes I ride are not very conducive to much clutch slipping, as sport bikes are way overgeared in first gear. My bikes all do over 100MPH in first gear...and really are a pain on the street.
HO-LEE-fkn-crap! 🙏🏼♥🙀
Why even have a transmission!? Lol
Drop a tooth or two on the front sprocket!
I don't see how that would be fun.
Try using 2nd or 3rd gear for low speed turns.
Excellent video. God bless.
Since it was posted April 1, my first reaction was that the video would be an April Fool's Day joke.
Heya Motoman, I have recently qualified for Police motorcycles and have a practice day coming up in 2 days, thanks for sharing your vids, they certainly help and I will be implementing the tips you provide in all my riding.
Good luck, let me know how you do.
Keep up the good work Jerry.
Thanks, will do!
I can do things when in a pressure situation that I can’t do well in a calm deliberate exercise. I was so mad that I took a wrong turn that I did a U-turn on a narrow street that in hindsight surprised me. Adrenaline is an amazing equalizer.
Dot 3's boiling point is around 400 degrees Fahrenheit. If you get the fluid anywhere near that, you have other serious problems to worry about...Like setting your pads on fire. This number does go lower from contamination, so service your brake fluid.
years ago my slow speed instructor demonstrated how much rear brake pressure by simply steppng on your toe. we all relized very quick we all used to much rear brake. Also, use your toes on the brake pad and not the full ball of your foot.
I use a similar demo. However, I've found that on H.D. Softtail models from 2018 and on, those bikes require twice as much rear brake pressure as H.D. touring bikes.
Depends on where you live and the time of year as to how much rear brake is needed and when, I live in an area uin Nebraskas where they use a lot sand, the sand collects at intersctions and the bottom of hills, I had to teach my wife not to use a lot of front brake when hitting these inter-sections spots. She just about found out the hard way when the front of the bike slid out from under her during a stop, luckily the front tire caught clean pavement and corrected it self. She now watches more closely and brakes accordingly.
Thank you Jerry
I need someone to cheer me up. I had a bad day yesterday. I went to my favorite practice spot and did a bunch of really nice u turns and figure 8's. Everything was great until I started overthinking one and dumped the bike. I was so upset with myself. Afterward the rear brake felt suuuuper weird. I thought I really messed it up (it fell to that side). But when I checked this morning it felt ok? So now I'm thinking maybe it got overworked like you describe. I would never have thought of that. I plan to get back out there again tomorrow but I will definitely swap that fluid first. Thank you as always for the tips. I always play back your videos in my head when I'm practicing and my goal is to "ride like Jerry's watching" 😅
It sounds like you are using way too much pressure on the rear brake. Try as I showed in this video, no rear brake.
I would only had. Don't do a U-turn on the street. Without stopping to see if someone is coming first. Do this without checking? At least on busy street. You won't have enough time if someone is driving fast as you stated. I use a lot rear and engine break to slow down I've learned from driving tractor trailer. I love how you mentioned turn your head in the turn and always keep it moving in the turn. 💪
You didn't learn to use a lot of rear brake from driving truck since trucks don't separate front and rear brakes
@donmunro144 Actually you are wrong. Most trucks have a trailer brake for people who can't hold the clutch and brake pedal on hill. And I've been riding for 3 years now. I use my rear brakes 70-80 % more whole riding. The most important and common thing you do while riding or driving trailer or riding 2. Is always keeping your head moving far down the road as possible. That alone will determine how much braking you'll be doing. And not tail gating the person in front of you. But I see a lot truckers trying to push people out of the way.
@@slayer04031974 Actually you are wrong. What you are talking about is called a trolley valve. It controls the trailer brakes. It's not meant to be a hill holder for those that aren't competent enough to use a clutch. I'm a 30 year trucker with in excess of 2 million safe miles under my belt, so I feel that I know what I'm talking about. I use very little brakes no matter if I'm driving my rig, pickup or riding my bike. I've also been riding some 40 yrs. I bought motor man's video and learned a lot from it. But if you're using 70-80% rear brake, please don't ride near me. I've seen more than enough idiots scraped of the road.
Thank you
✊🏼🏜️
Thanks for another great video. I've learned so much from you over the years. But these ride along videos like this make me dizzy.Whew!🥴
good comments on the rear brake.. makes me realize I'm overusing mine at low speeds
Yes. That's the point of this video.
All of my '60's bikes have cable-operated front drum brakes. A few of them are double-leading shoe, but most of them are single-leading shoe type. The latter of the two is pretty much good for holding the bike still after stopping, and not much else, lol! I do a lot of gear work and combination braking to slow down with any efficiency. Anticipating, prepping & gearing down to slow down well in advance is good practice, and an absolute necessity on a bike without disc brakes.
looks like you know about riding bikes... I'm a begginer. 6 months rolling.
While making a turn in the city, should I clutch and turn, or should I keep constant gas? thank you
@@positivelycurvedpikachu Learn to vary both the amount of clutch and throttle as you corner. As a beginner, you need to watch All of Jerry's videos here that you can, especially the ones regarding tight, slow turning. Anyone can ride straight and fast. Smart riders learn how to master the clutch friction and throttle speed to corner & turn smoothly at slow speeds! Do Not watch the front end of the bike in tight turns. Turn your head as far as possible in the direction you want to go & let your hands follow. It takes practice, and although I have been riding for 50+ years, I do the same exercises at the beginning of every riding season myself!
@@gravesclayton3604 Thank you Sir. I'll try it tomorrow. I'll be watching the videos too. 👋
It depends on the turn. On a 90 degree turn as in, turning from one street to another, use the rear brake and the friction zone until the turn is completed.
and you record great videos
Me and friend came to your class last year took pictures with you before your wife had surgery. Hope all is well sir.
Thanks Motorman
That is true 😎 I have been testing and practicing on a U turn , I just slow down to almost a stop and go ahead proceed with my U turn Works out pretty nice 🕶
U-turn speed should be 8 to 10MPH you must allow the bike to lean while turning. ua-cam.com/video/q9w3IAynquA/v-deo.html
I usually get 10k out of a rear tire. I also get about 10k out of a rear set of brake pads (on softail HD anyways.) The rear brake is a vital part of the machine. It’s that simple.
*Practice how you ride.... ride how you practice!* ♥ 👍🙀
Am a better writer from using your techniques, watching your videos, and doing my practicing in parking lots thank you motor man
Jerry! *** QUESTION *** have you adjusted your clutch or modified it to your liking?????????
Hey motorman good to see how you do it do easy. But I'm practicing with a Indian Roadmaster kind funny longer base not tight turn..
Watch this link ua-cam.com/video/hEdXHLiE3v4/v-deo.html
You're the guy that changes his tires and they're worn EVERYWHERE, not just the center. I wish I could say the same, but out here we have a lot of long, straight roads.
I watch a lot of your videos but the camera angle on this one in my opinion best shows how to turn the handlebars and best show the speed at which one should be at when making u turns. I would like to see this angle in more of your videos
I'm simply using a helmet camera mounted on the chin area. I have about 500 other videos using the helmet camera.
"Outstanding."
great video. I hate to admit I have not practiced like I should be. Guess what I am doing at lunch today.
I like motorcycle practice!
Hi Jerry, do you have the stock handlebars on the MC? Is it fair to assume this technique is more difficult with those higher apes?
It depends on how tall you are.
Thanks Motorman.
You bet
I just changed rear brakes on my 21 road glide at 11k. Does that sound normal? I use my rear brake for tight turns, it helps me keep the bike stable. Yes, I have geen cognizant of not over using my rear brake. Not sure if I could not use it on turns, but I'll give it a go. I have benefitted a lot from your instruction. I've been watching your videos since day 1 when I realized I didn't know as much as I thought I did! LOL Thanks Jerry!
I'd say that's fine. I use the rear a lot and had to replace at 10k miles.
I did my first slow race today. Did ok.
I didn't have anybody to walk beside me. so imagined someone there. Was going about 3 mph at 1800 rpm with rear break.
Question: So I've really gotten fixated on looking through my curbed and turns due to your consistent lesson of looking/turning your head to where you want to go.
The thing is, I am looking ahead, but I also want to look directly in front of me to avoid potholes and ruts in the road.
Do you stay fixated on that spot that you're looking ahead? How do you avoid obstacles directly in front of you while also looking far ahead?
Shawn, as you're riding down the road/street, you should be looking UP and ahead of your motorcycle, scanning the road. If you stare at a pothole you're going to go right to it. If you are scanning ahead and see the pothole, counter-steer/push steer, around it and carry on. Do not get fixated on a target you want to avoid. Get the head and eyes technique mastered, it will save your life.
How often do you change the brake fluid on these police bikes in action on the force?
Every 2 years.
I must have missed something, you said "instead of the rear brake, use your clutch and throttle". How do you reduce the bike's speed with the clutch and throttle at low speeds?
I’m curious, do you ever have people bring in a sport bike to your classes?
Of course.
I only use the backbreak in an emergency Situation.
Í d Drive since 40 years and still alive. 🤞🤞🤞
I have plenty of riders who claim to never use the rear brake as well. It takes them 40ft to make a simple u-turn on a bike that can turn in 15ft. They tend to drop their bikes a lot during the class until they start using the rear brake.
Hey Mr. Jerry Sir, I am curious do or have you ever pulled a motorcycle trailer with your Harley Davidson?
I am thinking about one of those Pop Up Tent trailer myself, I ride a '93 Harley FLHS . So I am wondering if you might have any tips on towing a trailer with a Bike?
No, would never have a trailer behind any of our bikes...not my cup of tea. Good luck to you if that's the route you take.
@jamesbarrett918 Hey thanks for your input, I greatly apricate it. As for mileage's I am sure there is someone out there that has ridden more miles than myself. But only a hand full or two, I start riding back in 1961 and I haven't miss a single year since then. I could make a list of all the Motorcycle's I had over the years, but that would be more like writing a book, especially because each Bike would need a comment to make it worth reading. So with 62 years of riding and 24 years of Log Trucking in the Great Northwest, I do know a lot about towing trailers. Just not with a Bike. So I do believe I'll just stay with being a Solitary Man. 😎
Does it matter if they are Harley Davidson linked breaking system..?
We're applying either the front or rear brake at low speeds ,both brakes get pressure automatically.?
Linked brakes have been on H.D. touring bikes for years. If you are pressing so hard on the rear brake that it affects the front brake. you are pressing way too hard on the rear brake.
Hi Gerry, I was always told the only time to use the rear brake besides slow manovers is when coming to a stop.
So use both brakes when coming to a stop but only use the rear brake for the last few feet.
Am I doing it wrong??
I do it otherwise when coming to a stop I use the front for the last feets
And wheelies... Front brakes don't work in the air😂😂😂
@@positivelycurvedpikachu You should use the rear to complete your stop. Most drops happen when using the front brake and the wheel is not straight. watch some other vids of instructors and thats what they reccommend.
@@johnk7147 thank you...
I have a difficult time using the rear break, I apply too much pressure.
Lighten up man! 🤣
When trying to describe how much rear brake pressure to apply, I like to tell students to pretend there's an egg between their foot and the brake pedal. Press just enough to slow the bike without crushing the imaginary egg.
Dont the modern Harleys apply an equal amount of front and rear no matter what lever you grab? I've heard that they are tandem
No. That's incorrect. ua-cam.com/video/avat3C3-u1c/v-deo.html
I tell ppl 2 use both because u will create habits for the bile u ride now and take them to next bike. victories (at least the 2 I own) will slow on with 1 brake but if I wanna stop ima need both
Front on any turn is deadly. Always clutch
Haveing both British and regular motorcycles I trained myself to just use the front brake.90% of your braking power is in your front brake. I conditioned myself to just grab the front brake in an emergency situation. People who drive cars are conditioned to stomp on the brake pedal in a car. When a biker stomps on the brake pedal you lock up the rear wheel. Brake pedals on motorcycles are a remnant of their bicycle past. At the very least we should have combined brakes
I am an older rider been riding many bikes over 40 years trying to improve my skills and very comfortabl at speed and cornering etc. I am trying to imporve my slow speed riding, uturns and so on and not lose balance on a heavy bike at low speeds. Ive watched a few trainers like yourself offering advice and lessons and I must say it is confusing. For example be the boss of your motorcycle, yourself and motor officer training provide differing advice about the use of the rear brake, front brake, loading the throttle etc. Be the boss ... says you must use the rear break often (at lower speeds) not using the front brake after the initial slow down and only using the rear and preloaded throttle as you approach the stop. You say not to use the rear brake or miinimise it; . I can see the logic of using the brake to moderate the power from the clutch to the rear and also to use the clutch with some preloaded throttle if you becone unsteady if the motorcycle is too slow and unbalance. I will say this you are all consistent about the eyeline being whre you want to go but as for the rest I must say I am a bit confused.
I shut off after 2:33, bc were not getting told WHY. I was taught to ride a bike back in the early 70's and was told there's a good reason for a bike having two brakes - use them BOTH. The front tyre has enough work to do maintaining grip in a corner and heavy breaking only brings the slip point (and accident) closer. Try turning on gravel with and with the rear brake, THEN you'll find the answer.
Riders who don't use the rear brake don't know squat.
I'd phrase that a little differently. ''Riders who don't know how or when to use the rear brake, don't know squat''.
@Ride Like a Pro Jerry Palladino LOL. I will say those who don't know how to use the brakes don't know squat; and if they are not careful will themselves be squat. Thanks Jerry for all the teaching skills. :)
SOMEBODY never heard of trail braking.
Motojitsu is not into dragging rear brakes. Personally I’m a big fan.
Motojitsu used the rear brake when he came to my class.
@@motorman857 I just remember him talking that down in a video a couple years ago. I was a newer rider then and it didn’t make sense to me because I found that to be a very effective technique when doing a slow speed turn/u-turn. First heard that technique on MC rider but see it all over now. Your channel and many others. This year I’m working on becoming a certified instructor here in Ohio, but at some point in the future I’d love to make it down to Florida and take your class.
Are you on a ST?
Yes.
Back pads way harder to change. Use front a ton more.
Unless you're doing a slow speed turn
Speed is key if not using rear... lean
Yes, there are still some Harley Riders that teach the new riders to NEVER touch that front brake.
do you have videon when you dont use bih harley? say something not so big...and doing u-turn, countersteering and leaning....
The techniques are the same for all 2 wheeled vehicles. ua-cam.com/video/8lx6nJCSjJI/v-deo.html
Well its there for a reason 🤷♂️
I ALWAYS USE REAR FIRST THEN FRONT...
Instructor should obey the laws. Especially an ex cop.
Rear brake is number one , use it a lot in low speed, Front brake is big No no in my brain
You use both breaks when stoping then it ware’s the same one or the other goes before the other unless you work on your bike shop’s charge way too much not many people want to get their hands dirty like these young ones
Open question: if all gymkhana riders NEVER use the clutch - why are we being told to here?
Try both ways. But before you try no clutch, change the sprockets and learn to replace your clutch and brake pads cause you're going to be replacing both on a regular basis.
Well I would be dead than.....suicide clutch and jockey shift with no front brakes.....
Those who use only rear brake in every situation, might be shocked by the title... lol
I can't tell you how many times I hear old guys going "I never use the front brakes." I'm just here wondering how they even stop.
@@Rogan_Dorn I down shift 90% of the time to slow down.
@@Rogan_Dorn I'm old, but *NEVER* heard anyone saying something like that.
But then, I got my license (and drove mostly, prior moving) in the European Alps 😁
@@Rogan_Dorn And i heared some young people say that rear brake is the main brake... And then watched a videos of their crashes, failing to stop...
@@HQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQ This is the key point, I think. If you use the rear brake almost exclusively, this is what you have in your muscle memory. If your get into an emergency situation, guess what! you will do exactly what is ingrained in your memory....hence your stopping distance will be much longer than it should be. Also, you will more likely end up in a low or high side crash...
One thing not said is what gear your in 😊
1st gear of course.
Use back front remember this not front back.
A real man just drags his feet to a stop.
I was shocked by the title of the video.
Never use your front brake because you will flip over the handlebars.
🤣
You haven't a clue.
@@motorman857 Motorcycle safety is no joke, but my comment was.
Terrible advice. Yesz most of your braking power is in the front but to teach people to ignore rear braking is just bad. There are plenty of times to use the rear brake, either alone or in conjunction with the front.
Jason, had you actually watched this video, you would have heard me say when stopping, you should always use BOTH brakes. What I explained in this video was that to improve your clutch/throttle coordination (friction zone) Try practicing tight low speed turns without the rear brake as that will make you better at the friction zone, and show you how little rear brake pressure is actually needed. If you comment prior to actually watching a video, you wind up looking stupid.
On a cruiser 70% of your braking is done on the rear. 30% from the front is to help complete the stop n hold the bike steady.
When as a kid riding a bike all you ever did was use the rear brake. You skid to a stop, you can properly maneuver a bike in hasty situations with the rear brake. Front bike in hasty situations will cause you to eat shit. Sorry sir you are incorrect in this video.
Nonsense. 80 to 90% of your braking force is in the front brake on 99% of motorcycles. What motorcycle might have more braking force in the rear? That would be on some choppers with a wide rear tire and a very skinny front tire. Now I realize that I've only had over 1200 or so hours of training on all kinds of motorcycles, and I've trained a couple thousand riders in proper braking the past 25 years, have 14 best selling motorcycle safety videos, wrote the book on this stuff, have 20 schools around the country and I'm recognized as an expert witness in every state for motorcycle crashes, your qualifications are surely much better than mine. But, and that's a BIG BUT, if you think the rear brake has more stopping force than the front brake, I have to assume you've never practiced quick braking. Because if you've practiced quick stops, you'd know your comment is well, just plain stupid.
Joseph, you're wrong. end of story
ua-cam.com/video/W-zZ1PgSkBE/v-deo.html
No.
I'll guess the drag on the drive tire could stall the engine. Ive heard 75% of the braking is on the front tire when braking hard.
I know the guy that Jerry learns from!