Despite the overhead baggage space lacking, I really like Porter's Q400 cabin compared to other airlines. Its airy, bright, seats are alright (for me), and clean. Their complimentary snack/drink service is definitely excellent too.
I fly Porter periodically and really like it. I haven't, admittedly, flown with them since the pandemic. You have to understand - people in the Toronto-centered market like Porter because it's the best, and most affordable airline that flies out of downtown Billy Bishop Airport. If your journey originates near downtown Toronto you are eliminating an hour's commute out to Pearson Airport - which in bad traffic can be horrendous. Porter also operates a bus shuttle service from near Union Station in the heart of downtown Toronto out to Billy Bishop, which is also great. It is efficient and eliminates the cost of a cab. So - factor these things in - it will help you understand the popularity of this little airline.
I can absolutely see that, and while I've never flown into Billy Bishop for that reason, my comparison with DCA and Megis in Chicago was the best I could do. But that makes me even more confused about their E190-E2s out of Pearson. I get why they can't be at Billy Bishop, but I wonder how competitive they will be there (and how connections will work).
@@Travelog Porter wanted to lengthen the runway and bring jets to Billy Bishop, and it became a huge political football. A big citizen movement grew up to fight it (these same people would like to see the airport closed, period). Lawn signs in front of houses - the whole thing! So that was no-go.
@@Travelog the competitiveness will be based on complimentary snacks/meals and drinks and no middle seats - anywhere in the cabin! Additionally, they already have codeshare agreements with transat and jet blue so those connections are a breeze.
@phil g Yep, I did read about that, decided to chalk it in with the "lawsuits I'm not going to talk about" section. As for killing it, well, you just need a mayor like Daley who bulldozed Megis Field without even notifying the FAA...
@Izabella Indeed, and the timing of my video was rather unfortunate with Porter unveiling their 195 E-2 cabins just yesterday. That's what I get for bulk filming/editing months beforehand! They do look pretty good. 30 inches in economy isn't great, but I'm curious about their more premium seats and offering, and how much more expensive it will be. I'll try it if the opportunity arises for sure. You are right about the codeshare with Jetblue, I'm just not sure how helpful that is going to be. Looking at the new US destinations that would be getting the 195-E2, most don't have a large JetBlue presence. Now if they got an interline with American, that would be a different story, and stick it to Star Alliance/United.
I have only flown on Porter pre-pandemic when Porter had the hype they deserved. Unfortunately they've seemed to have gone downhill a bit as I've seen in this video. I am exited to see what Porter brings with their E2-195s, and hope to see good things again.
The YTZ terminal is no longer under the purview of Porter, I should mention. Nieuport Aviation is the owner of the terminal now, and the lack of some amenities including free snacks etc, is a result of changes they made after acquiring the terminal from Porter. I agree the old seats were definitely more comfortable. Flying into and out of the island (with its relatively short runway) puts a pretty good performance cap on the Q400, especially on hot days. I can see why they opted for the lightest possible seats although it definitely would've been nice if they maintained the 74 seat configuration instead of the 78 (but then I guess that kind of negates the benefit of the seats). I usually tell everyone that has never flown on a Dash 8 or a turboprop aircraft before that your expectations need to be managed. They are loud, they vibrate, the seats don't recline, there is limited legroom and the overhead bins are small. In the scope of Dash 8 operators (specifically Canadian ones), flying on Porter feels like being in a semi-luxurious Uber compared to their counterpart Q400 operators (Jazz and Encore- both of which I have also flown on quite a bit) which feel like you're on a crowded schoolbus to the nearest correctional facility. I have high hopes for the E2 operation, and I think it'll do quite well considering their ONLY competition is now Air Canada (WestJet is retreating back to Western Canada to try and become Southwest again, after their identity crisis that took place over the last few years). The Canadian flying public seems to have such a deep-seated hatred for Air Canada (rightly so, there are plenty of horrific AC trip reviews plastered all over the internet) that they will flock to any alternative airline in droves. Realistically, Air Canada is not that difficult to compete against nowadays (it wasn't in 2006 either when Porter launched). Canada has been flooded with "dirt cheap" ULCCs in the last few years and even the "majors" (WJ and AC) have been slowly chipping away at their economy product. I think people are happy that you can now get a transcontinental flight for
WestJet is not retreating back to Western Canada. They are just refocusing to strengthening their dominance in Calgary. But they will still have a strong presence out of Toronto. In addition, WestJet owns Swoop and are in the process of buying Sunwing. Swoop will probably not fly into Calgary to avoid WestJet competing with itself. All those Sunwing and Swoop aircrafts will replace any so called "retreating", (refocusing), WestJet is doing. Porter might struggle competing with the ULCC's $49 flights regardless of how much free beer and wine they give out
Which airlines offer anything close to transcontinental flights for $100cad? I know to fly anywhere to the British Isles from Toronto is $700cad minimum, regardless of time of year
I'm actually flying out of Pearson on Porter to from Toronto Pearson to Vancouver at the end of February. Mostly just the right price at the right flight time kind of thing. They differentiate themselves by their jets having no middle seats, free beer, wine and snacks and free wifi.
Should be exciting! I genuinely wish them the best, and will try and fly the jets as soon as possible, I just don’t have plans to return to Canada in the near future.
I have flown with them many times from Midway to Toronto, but as you noted with worsen services I have given up on them. Initially, I was hooked. They had excellent service, cheaper fares, food onboard etc. They were really a new Pan Am to some extend. However, all went south very quickly and now they are actually worse than AC/UA.
Really? I find they have the best service by far. When they lost my baggage for a few days, they admitted fault and worked very diligently in getting my luggage back to me. WestJet or Air Canada never were that accommodating. Another flight when the plane's electrical system had problems, they had to cancel the flight but did a good job booking most people on a suitable flight that was only a couple hours or more after the original flight.
I think I huge part of Porter's advantage is that they fly out of Billy Bishop rather than Pearson in Toronto. Being able to get to the airport quickly from downtown has been massive, particularly for business travellers who dont want to waste time with Pearson, as it is objectively one of the worst airports in the world. Not very relevant for you as you were connecting, but that is always what I have viewed Porter as, though I have never flown them. Shame that some of the stuff I remember from the past isn't true anymore. Great video, keep it up!
I think you're absolutely right about the convenience factor, which makes their flying out Pearson with the E190-E2s so puzzling. But I definitely will fly to Billy Bishop if I need to go to the city!
@@Travelog My guess is, JetBlue might decide to start flying into Pearson, which will benefit both airlines and their partnership; (it will be interesting to see more Porter flights out of Vancouver for this reason). Once they establish a baseline of flights out of Pearson, they can start doing more point to point flying out of Ottawa, Montreal & Halifax and try to be the dominate airline in those cities
When I visited Toronto a week and a half ago, it was kind of neat to see all the ads for it on the Union Pearson Express. Fun fact, you can see Billy Bishop from CN Tower and a lot of the Porter fleet departing from there
Not sure, but the dash-8 remains a very useful aircraft all over the world. I know Connect is leasing 3 of them now, but perhaps even they pick up a couple.
Check in indeed is a mess, they were late to open twice in a row and the staff kept having to ask someone for help on how to run their software, hilariously enough they overbook and run out of overhead compartments which! You have to pay extra if you want to keep them from taking it down and asking you to put it under the seat, which is fine but when you got a very large bag it takes away your leg room. 😅
I always fly Porter to Toronto whenever I can for a couple of reasons. The convenience (and the view!) of landing right in the city at Billy Bishop is definitely reason enough, like you said. They also tend to have better rates than the other airlines. Much better rates - in my experience, IF you're okay with the basics and don't have a lot of luggage to worry about. You can usually save money compared to WestJet, while Air Canada rates can easily be double. I'm also guilty of thinking back to the days of better legroom and free snacks, but you're right, those things have sadly disappeared in recent years. When I read your title, I thought you were going to be tearing down Porter, but you were spot on with your conclusion. It's already not what it used to be, but it does have pretty good service overall, and if you're flying to or from Toronto, you're not going to get much better for an economy flight right now. We'll see if that changes. In the meantime, if it helps you understand a little better why this random airline has such a following, you actually alluded to it yourself at the end. When your competition is Air Canada, there's a low bar. A REALLY bad, frustrating, annoying, rip-off of a low bar. So it's all relative! :) Good review!
This review is overly negative. 30 inches is a good seat pitch even your knees had plenty of room, more seats means more revenue and therefore lower fares for everyone onboard. Also No Dash 8 economy seats that I know of have ever reclined.
I would disagree on one of your points. More seats per plane does mean more revenue. That doesn’t mean those lower costs get passed on to you. Time and time again, with bag fees, basic economy, etc. we see that that’s almost never the case. They are just a business after all.
When I was younger and not traveling on my own dime I always wanted to fly Porter for its unique proposition of Dash-8s through a unique airport. Never had the opportunity and now it appears Porter has seemingly lost the uniqueness.
flying a dash8 in and out of that airport with that avgeek experience and view definitely is unique and worth it. what are u talking about. just because they lost some legroom and have a slimmer seat now, none of what i aforementioned is in existence anymore?
Porter changed their policy for support animals. My elder support worker, at my request booked my flight to toronto for specialist care. I found out too late of the change of policy, would have had to chop my dog in half to be allowed on the flight and they had no provision to fly him in cargo because they save that space for able bodied peoples' luggage. I was not able to get a refund. Despicable imo! i had to drive the 866 miles, sleeping in the car to get to the appointment that takes two yrs. to get.
With any new competitor they start off with extra amenities to attract customers then they reduce it once they've gotten a customer base. It's just business
You skipped over Porters lawsuits and legal troubles, but notably in mid-October (2022) Porter lost a court fight with the Billy Bishop Airport terminal owner-operator, Nieuport Aviation. The dispute, settled in Nieuport's favour for $130 million Canadian, was about whether Porter was contractually obligated to continue paying Nieuport for use of the airport t during the COVID shutdown.
You're right about the lawsuits. While definitely no expert I did a little reading before realizing that I really should steer clear in the video. I do make a reference to it however.
That kind of is my shtick…I wanted to like Porter. I did like them. I said I’d fly them over AC (that I really despise). All I’m saying is that the level of fandom pre-Covid is no longer warranted. We’ll see how the E190-2s turn out…
You’re literally pissed off at the airline before you even get to the airport. This video isn’t objective. You should try looking at the good things in life instead of being negative.
Despite the overhead baggage space lacking, I really like Porter's Q400 cabin compared to other airlines. Its airy, bright, seats are alright (for me), and clean. Their complimentary snack/drink service is definitely excellent too.
I fly Porter periodically and really like it. I haven't, admittedly, flown with them since the pandemic. You have to understand - people in the Toronto-centered market like Porter because it's the best, and most affordable airline that flies out of downtown Billy Bishop Airport. If your journey originates near downtown Toronto you are eliminating an hour's commute out to Pearson Airport - which in bad traffic can be horrendous. Porter also operates a bus shuttle service from near Union Station in the heart of downtown Toronto out to Billy Bishop, which is also great. It is efficient and eliminates the cost of a cab. So - factor these things in - it will help you understand the popularity of this little airline.
I can absolutely see that, and while I've never flown into Billy Bishop for that reason, my comparison with DCA and Megis in Chicago was the best I could do. But that makes me even more confused about their E190-E2s out of Pearson. I get why they can't be at Billy Bishop, but I wonder how competitive they will be there (and how connections will work).
@@Travelog Porter wanted to lengthen the runway and bring jets to Billy Bishop, and it became a huge political football. A big citizen movement grew up to fight it (these same people would like to see the airport closed, period). Lawn signs in front of houses - the whole thing! So that was no-go.
@@Travelog the competitiveness will be based on complimentary snacks/meals and drinks and no middle seats - anywhere in the cabin! Additionally, they already have codeshare agreements with transat and jet blue so those connections are a breeze.
@phil g Yep, I did read about that, decided to chalk it in with the "lawsuits I'm not going to talk about" section. As for killing it, well, you just need a mayor like Daley who bulldozed Megis Field without even notifying the FAA...
@Izabella Indeed, and the timing of my video was rather unfortunate with Porter unveiling their 195 E-2 cabins just yesterday. That's what I get for bulk filming/editing months beforehand! They do look pretty good. 30 inches in economy isn't great, but I'm curious about their more premium seats and offering, and how much more expensive it will be. I'll try it if the opportunity arises for sure. You are right about the codeshare with Jetblue, I'm just not sure how helpful that is going to be. Looking at the new US destinations that would be getting the 195-E2, most don't have a large JetBlue presence. Now if they got an interline with American, that would be a different story, and stick it to Star Alliance/United.
I have only flown on Porter pre-pandemic when Porter had the hype they deserved. Unfortunately they've seemed to have gone downhill a bit as I've seen in this video. I am exited to see what Porter brings with their E2-195s, and hope to see good things again.
The YTZ terminal is no longer under the purview of Porter, I should mention. Nieuport Aviation is the owner of the terminal now, and the lack of some amenities including free snacks etc, is a result of changes they made after acquiring the terminal from Porter.
I agree the old seats were definitely more comfortable. Flying into and out of the island (with its relatively short runway) puts a pretty good performance cap on the Q400, especially on hot days. I can see why they opted for the lightest possible seats although it definitely would've been nice if they maintained the 74 seat configuration instead of the 78 (but then I guess that kind of negates the benefit of the seats).
I usually tell everyone that has never flown on a Dash 8 or a turboprop aircraft before that your expectations need to be managed. They are loud, they vibrate, the seats don't recline, there is limited legroom and the overhead bins are small. In the scope of Dash 8 operators (specifically Canadian ones), flying on Porter feels like being in a semi-luxurious Uber compared to their counterpart Q400 operators (Jazz and Encore- both of which I have also flown on quite a bit) which feel like you're on a crowded schoolbus to the nearest correctional facility.
I have high hopes for the E2 operation, and I think it'll do quite well considering their ONLY competition is now Air Canada (WestJet is retreating back to Western Canada to try and become Southwest again, after their identity crisis that took place over the last few years). The Canadian flying public seems to have such a deep-seated hatred for Air Canada (rightly so, there are plenty of horrific AC trip reviews plastered all over the internet) that they will flock to any alternative airline in droves. Realistically, Air Canada is not that difficult to compete against nowadays (it wasn't in 2006 either when Porter launched). Canada has been flooded with "dirt cheap" ULCCs in the last few years and even the "majors" (WJ and AC) have been slowly chipping away at their economy product. I think people are happy that you can now get a transcontinental flight for
WestJet is not retreating back to Western Canada. They are just refocusing to strengthening their dominance in Calgary. But they will still have a strong presence out of Toronto. In addition, WestJet owns Swoop and are in the process of buying Sunwing. Swoop will probably not fly into Calgary to avoid WestJet competing with itself. All those Sunwing and Swoop aircrafts will replace any so called "retreating", (refocusing), WestJet is doing. Porter might struggle competing with the ULCC's $49 flights regardless of how much free beer and wine they give out
Which airlines offer anything close to transcontinental flights for $100cad? I know to fly anywhere to the British Isles from Toronto is $700cad minimum, regardless of time of year
I'm actually flying out of Pearson on Porter to from Toronto Pearson to Vancouver at the end of February. Mostly just the right price at the right flight time kind of thing. They differentiate themselves by their jets having no middle seats, free beer, wine and snacks and free wifi.
Should be exciting! I genuinely wish them the best, and will try and fly the jets as soon as possible, I just don’t have plans to return to Canada in the near future.
@@Travelog I am always just glad whenever their is more competition to help break the Air Canada/Westjet duopoly here in Canada.
"waited in the penalty box in the hallway." LOL, I liked the cute little hockey joke.
825. I don't know of I ever met 825. I remember the good old pre-pandemic days of Porter. I had no idea what I was doing but we got er done.
I have flown with them many times from Midway to Toronto, but as you noted with worsen services I have given up on them. Initially, I was hooked. They had excellent service, cheaper fares, food onboard etc. They were really a new Pan Am to some extend. However, all went south very quickly and now they are actually worse than AC/UA.
Really? I find they have the best service by far. When they lost my baggage for a few days, they admitted fault and worked very diligently in getting my luggage back to me. WestJet or Air Canada never were that accommodating. Another flight when the plane's electrical system had problems, they had to cancel the flight but did a good job booking most people on a suitable flight that was only a couple hours or more after the original flight.
They’re the best airline in Canada, and actually an excellent airline
I think I huge part of Porter's advantage is that they fly out of Billy Bishop rather than Pearson in Toronto. Being able to get to the airport quickly from downtown has been massive, particularly for business travellers who dont want to waste time with Pearson, as it is objectively one of the worst airports in the world. Not very relevant for you as you were connecting, but that is always what I have viewed Porter as, though I have never flown them. Shame that some of the stuff I remember from the past isn't true anymore. Great video, keep it up!
I think you're absolutely right about the convenience factor, which makes their flying out Pearson with the E190-E2s so puzzling. But I definitely will fly to Billy Bishop if I need to go to the city!
@@Travelog My guess is, JetBlue might decide to start flying into Pearson, which will benefit both airlines and their partnership; (it will be interesting to see more Porter flights out of Vancouver for this reason). Once they establish a baseline of flights out of Pearson, they can start doing more point to point flying out of Ottawa, Montreal & Halifax and try to be the dominate airline in those cities
When I visited Toronto a week and a half ago, it was kind of neat to see all the ads for it on the Union Pearson Express. Fun fact, you can see Billy Bishop from CN Tower and a lot of the Porter fleet departing from there
Do you think that there will be an airline in the US that will revive turboprop use after Alaska Airlines retires theirs?
Not sure, but the dash-8 remains a very useful aircraft all over the world. I know Connect is leasing 3 of them now, but perhaps even they pick up a couple.
Remember though that Alaska and Horizon are still two separate airlines.
Check in indeed is a mess, they were late to open twice in a row and the staff kept having to ask someone for help on how to run their software, hilariously enough they overbook and run out of overhead compartments which! You have to pay extra if you want to keep them from taking it down and asking you to put it under the seat, which is fine but when you got a very large bag it takes away your leg room. 😅
I always fly Porter to Toronto whenever I can for a couple of reasons. The convenience (and the view!) of landing right in the city at Billy Bishop is definitely reason enough, like you said. They also tend to have better rates than the other airlines. Much better rates - in my experience, IF you're okay with the basics and don't have a lot of luggage to worry about. You can usually save money compared to WestJet, while Air Canada rates can easily be double. I'm also guilty of thinking back to the days of better legroom and free snacks, but you're right, those things have sadly disappeared in recent years.
When I read your title, I thought you were going to be tearing down Porter, but you were spot on with your conclusion. It's already not what it used to be, but it does have pretty good service overall, and if you're flying to or from Toronto, you're not going to get much better for an economy flight right now. We'll see if that changes.
In the meantime, if it helps you understand a little better why this random airline has such a following, you actually alluded to it yourself at the end. When your competition is Air Canada, there's a low bar. A REALLY bad, frustrating, annoying, rip-off of a low bar. So it's all relative! :)
Good review!
This review is overly negative. 30 inches is a good seat pitch even your knees had plenty of room, more seats means more revenue and therefore lower fares for everyone onboard. Also No Dash 8 economy seats that I know of have ever reclined.
I would disagree on one of your points. More seats per plane does mean more revenue. That doesn’t mean those lower costs get passed on to you. Time and time again, with bag fees, basic economy, etc. we see that that’s almost never the case. They are just a business after all.
@@Travelog I can give you an example where it does. Ryanair.
Just LOVED the style of this review, especially your take on the "massage feature". This is Canadian "value" lol
When I was younger and not traveling on my own dime I always wanted to fly Porter for its unique proposition of Dash-8s through a unique airport. Never had the opportunity and now it appears Porter has seemingly lost the uniqueness.
flying a dash8 in and out of that airport with that avgeek experience and view definitely is unique and worth it. what are u talking about. just because they lost some legroom and have a slimmer seat now, none of what i aforementioned is in existence anymore?
The terminal is run by Nieuport Aviation, not Porter.
Correct, I believe I said that there were a series of lawsuits involving Porter and the Airport. But I didn't want to get into that rabbit hole.
They're expanding their business model, which I think is great.
Very nice honest review.
I think COVID definitely changed Porter but with how terrible AC can be, I think they can still market on having actually good service
Porter changed their policy for support animals. My elder support worker, at my request booked my flight to toronto for specialist care. I found out too late of the change of policy, would have had to chop my dog in half to be allowed on the flight and they had no provision to fly him in cargo because they save that space for able bodied peoples' luggage. I was not able to get a refund. Despicable imo! i had to drive the 866 miles, sleeping in the car to get to the appointment that takes two yrs. to get.
With any new competitor they start off with extra amenities to attract customers then they reduce it once they've gotten a customer base. It's just business
HAHAHHAA "the porter jet was with the other rejects"
You skipped over Porters lawsuits and legal troubles, but notably in mid-October (2022) Porter lost a court fight with the Billy Bishop Airport terminal owner-operator, Nieuport Aviation. The dispute, settled in Nieuport's favour for $130 million Canadian, was about whether Porter was contractually obligated to continue paying Nieuport for use of the airport t during the COVID shutdown.
You're right about the lawsuits. While definitely no expert I did a little reading before realizing that I really should steer clear in the video. I do make a reference to it however.
I used to work at that convenience store at 1:20 at billy bishop
It was fun. Everyone said how cheap they got the tickets for
It’s a shame that people are so focused on the negative things. If you change your mindset, you’ll find yourself having a better experience.
Yeah, the tone from the beginning of this video felt negative. It’s like he’s trying to find the smallest things to complain about
That kind of is my shtick…I wanted to like Porter. I did like them. I said I’d fly them over AC (that I really despise). All I’m saying is that the level of fandom pre-Covid is no longer warranted. We’ll see how the E190-2s turn out…
You’re literally pissed off at the airline before you even get to the airport. This video isn’t objective. You should try looking at the good things in life instead of being negative.
6:17 you can see the CNE
Great video