Ben, great video 1- regarding the top rail. When you're drilling the base rail, clamp the top rail down the center of the base. So when you make a drill plunge you make a duplicate. Use a drill stop in the cap, not to drill through the top cap. Boar out larger size hole into spindles and bottom of cap rail, to use wood dowels and glue to secure top rail. Finished product is strong as using hardware. 2- another method to secure top rail. Make a dual section cap. A plate that's rectangular in shape and the width of the spindle, line up cap like above screw all the way through. Adhere from the top down into the spindles with screws. Place a "U" shape cap rail over the base rail. Glue the mounted cap, shoot finished brads into the sides. Now you have the strength of the screw and a finished hand rail cap no securing method showing 🙂
I started scrolling through the comments to see if anyone suggested dowels or a two piece cap, and you beat me to both! Two piece caps without even trying to hide the (thin, 0.25-0.75") lower layer are common near me, especially on decks.
When installing, start in the middle so that you can do your little fudge on each ends. Second, when checking your dimensions with your pencil and block, you can cut the time it takes in half by only doing half, and then confirming it to be halfway with the tape measure. This is true of any divided, segmented material layout.
Great content, love your videos! I think the reason your layout didn't ad up is simple, you measured your empty space with all the spindles pushed together which is great, that accounts for all the variences the spindles may have.. when you did your lay out you used the same block repeatedly... Which doesn't account for the variences between 20 pieces.. I guess one way your method would have worked out is if you had used a thickness planer prior to doing the layout.. it only takes 8 spindles to be short by 1/32 to equate that 1/4" gap. Hope this makes sense! Cheers :)
For attaching the top to spindles you can use a 1x board on top and screws straight down just as you did not want to do. Then place that nice 2x rail. Then you can screw through the 1x from underside and secure it to 2x cap. You can dress the seam between the 2 boards with small molding.
When I worked for a stair builder, we would use a pair of dividers set to the distance between the ballisters on center. Then starting from the center point of the first ballister, walk them down to the location of the center of the last ballister. If you were off, adjust the dividers more or less to compensate for the difference, then walk them down again from start to finish. At each point, we drilled holes in the floor and the railing for the ballister dowel pins, which we glued in place. This method was fast and accurate and works for curves as well as straight lines. We once built and put in an elliptical staircase where the curve of the balcony followed the ellipse curve of the stairs and this method worked perfectly.
I measure what inside is. divide in half make center mark. nail spindle at top centered on mark. level spindle nail off then use 2x4. spacer hold spindles on edge 2x4 and check level ever so often usually comes out even sometime have cut one in half..looks very nice! love your work!
I love the multiply the (decimal part of the number) by 16 to get back to fractions. It makes our stubborn way tolerable. So many times I could have used that math.
Start marking from middle and you halve marking error and both ends would be similar. Make top rail from 2 piece lower part you screw just way you did bottom then glue upper part to it little bit sanding on both side when glue is dry no need to fill any screw hole.
Thoroughly enjoyed the video. Simple tip on most jobs requiring equal spacing I do the math then simply start in the middle and work outwards, thereby equally spacing the minor inevitable difference between the two ends.
Or even contrasting wood dowels, but definitely a client discussion required for that one! I've also seen a ⅛" deep track routed under the handrail to align the spindles, which are then screw fixed inline, so the putty is in shadow. It gave the rail additional purchase in the hand, but I wished that the carpenter had sanded the finest bevel, as the edge was a little sharp in places where the polyurethane had formed drip edges.
I think he's suggesting that the dowels not be visible at all. You can make the dowels whatever color or wood species you want if they're jammed into two blind holes.
Spacing is actually supposed to be four inches ON CENTER. This way, skinny wrought iron spindles and beefy wooden spindles are spaced safely with a space that can't possibly be more than 4 inches
Wes Buckley that makes sure there is not an issue, but so does a 1” gap. The requirement is 4” spacing between. Balusters must be installed close enough that the space between them is no greater than 4 inches. A 4-inch ball might be used by the inspector to verify the spacing. Once installed, I think there is also a requirement for the balusters to hold up under 50 lbs. of pressure exerted over a 1-square-foot area
Perhaps it is just the manufacturer's install instructions on using 4 inch center to center, and not the building code book. One could assume they would be the same, but knowing that the maximum open space is 4 inches could help even out layout and save the cost of one extra spindle.
I use the elastic band truck as seen on " how to build a porch rail,, this old house". There is no measuring ,other than to confirm you're under 4" and it is super fast.
I start in the center and then work to the left and right. Cuts layout deviations in half. Your job looks great. A deviation of a half inch no one will notice, or care about if you point it out to them.
First I have to say that I just love, love, love your videos! Now I think I would've used your spacer and laid all of your spindles out in order to get a good feel for how they would line up in the run. Then make your adjustments and marks as needed. After putting the single screw in the bottom of each one I would go back with a small nail towards the corner of each in order to keep them from ever twisting. On the top after getting your marks made use wooden dowels in the center of each and you can still use a small nail to the side of each just drive it a little more than halfway into each spindle and then cut the head off at an angle. I hope this helps in the future for projects that won't be painted. :-)
As far as the handrail either use dowels and glue or use screw in between pickets and cover screw holes by cutting fillet pieces and pin nail them through the fillet. Hope that helps.
I am a 66 yr old handyman in Northern California wine country - Sonoma County - NOT Napa. I have been handy manning for 27 years - before that I was a mechanical engineer in Silicon Valley. Regarding your spacing -- that is exactly how i do it. There is ALWAYS a little fudge factor at the end that you distribute among the last 3-6 pieces. Well done! Human perception is NOT THAT accurate!
13.5/16" is also 27/32" which one can find on an imperial tape measure. This is a great argument for the metric system, and I'm american. Imperial system is cumbersome and archaic.
Here in England the top rail has a rebate all the way along it. So you don't fix the spindles at all. Instead we make spacer pieces and fix from the underside. Great vids mate!
Being in the process of renovating my mother's old apartment I really need to stop watching your videos, as everytime I see a new topic, I want to try renovating or changing out something more in her house 😅 Thank you for the great videos!!
Thanks for the overview, I learned a couple of tricks I can use and appreciate it. And you do know that you can buy Imperial measuring tape that has markings in decimal .. right?? That being said, It's not 'easier' in metric if one has the skills and practices. No matter what measuring system is used, one can still end up with an odd fraction depending on the number of spindles one has. Using an 'odd' number of spindles means an even number of spaces which can make the math easier. The reality is that anything less than 1/8 isn't noticeable by most people, and 1/16th by most of the rest. Adjusting at the ends works. In this case, you could have done one at 3 13/16s and the next and 3 14/16ths (7/8s). Then the adjustments at the end would have been even less. I find that starting in the middle can be better as one has two ends to make the micro-adjustments. It can require a little more precision at first, but I've done it successfully. Regardless, thank you for taking the time to make the video. I always learn something new watching your videos.
That is pure nonsense, you're not going to end up with a fraction using the metric system, if you do, you're doing it wrong. That's the point of the metric system. Meters, centimeters, millimeters, micrometers, nanometers, picometers... so on. Need more precision, go down the scale.
also dowels and glue is best for setting hand rail. no holes, no nails stronger connection. We will use a piece of flat mdd baseboard or something nice and straight at the base plate clamped parallel to the base plate against the first and last post which will keep all the posts parallel as it dries. if the rail is bowed in the centre you can toe screw the middle spindle top and bottom or you can use a clamp between ceiling and rail to push down over night
Nice to come across this. Any videos on the other components of this hand rail construction? The attachment of the posts to the base(shoe rail) for example.
Baluster Formula with fillets or spacing without shoe molding: I usually take the TS(total span) and divide it by 5.5 to get an approximate BN(baluster number) then plug it into the following formula. Other variables are BW(baluster width) and the result your aiming for which is FL(fillet length) So say 100” for TS divided by 5.5” = about 18 balusters EXAMPLE- TS-(BNxBW)/BN+1=FL 100-(18x1.5)/18+1=FL 100-27/19=FL 73/19=FL 3.84=FL So FL=about 3 13/16” spacing or fillet length I then Check it just like you, marking off the spacing and adjust the last 3 balusters(on a run this long) for pretty much consistent looking spacing. This works best for square balusters. For balusters that have been turned with deep grooves I usually divide the TS by “5” to bring the balusters a bit closer to try to hit the 4 inch mark. Learned this from my Uncle years ago.
Fml we did a whole ass week on baluster spacing/equal spaces in 4th year and I completely forgot all of it, this was the formula I was trying to remember!
I was with you at 112.25" being divided by 21 which gives a spacing or 5.34". Your first spacing from either post would be 5.34" less 3/4" (half the with of a baluster) and then 5.34" for each baluster center after that. I use divider calipers and walk off the spacing to the next newel. If the spacing is slightly off I make a minor adjustment in the caliper and start from the other end until the spacing is correct. You can also use a calculator and keep adding 5.34" to get the next center.
Find center on runners walk out left and right of center mark 2 inches then 4 inches the rest of the way if the picket are to close to post. Start with pickits center to center on runner and walk out left and right 4 inch of your center. Perfectly spaces and done
Great method on the layout. Re:top screws I would have used a 1/4” x 1.5” sub-rail strip and top screwed/glued into that. Then either let that form a 1/4” shadow line on the underside of the cap, or plowed a 1.5” wide dado the length of the cap rail, either full 1/4” depth for a flush look, or maybe 1/8” to leave a 1/8” shadow line. Either way, then you glue and screw UP into the cap rail. You still have a few fasteners to conceal but it’s much less noticeable, and can add a lot of strength if glued/clamped.
Good video - If viewing in the UK the 4" GAP would not be suitable as it comes to almost 102mm metric. You would have to do the same as above but allow for 99mm max gap as Building Control states that "Construction should be such that a 100mm sphere CANNOT pass through any opening in the guarding" - hence 99mm max. (Possibly allow for even tighter spacing if not straight but curved spindles and or newels)
(Total length + width of one post) devided by number of spaces. That should give you the spacing between each post, except start and end is minus half the width of a post. This only works if all posts are the same size. I would also predrill top and bottom at the same time, but not all the way through the top. Then make the predrilled holes in the top larger to fit a dowel, and use that to hold the posts. Gluing that is just as strong, if not stronger, than a screw.
Get yourself a set of gage blocks! Find the distance between each spindle, ring the gage blocks together. Perfect placement down the the ten thousandth of an inch!
Thanks Ben for ALL your great tips and teachings. Just want to add a tip to your method of laying out the spindles. As shown in the video at 5:06, there was about a 1/4" extra in last space. What I've done in the past in cases like that, is wrap 1 or 2 or 3, etc... layers of masking tape around the end of the spacer block to add fractions of length to the block. Do the "double check" again, and you should see a reduction in the extra space at the end. If your block doesn't fit in the end space, either go with it, or just remove one layer of tape, or if you only had one layer, use thinner tape. Hope this helps some of you.
Get a measuring tape that has both decimals and fractions, hard to find but when you do buy two. Tip one make a list, down lode it from the web save in your note book or your phone.1/32=.03125, 1/16=.0625, 3/32=.09375, 1/8=.125, 5/32=.15625, 3/16=.1875, 7/32=.21875, 1/4=.25 etc. No toe screws, it's going to be painted. pre- driil counter sink fill the top with a dowel and gorilla glue (whatever that expansion foam stuff is called) sand and paint.
The incremental error introduced by rounding and then using a cut off & a spacer block is the problem with this method. I'd add 1.5" to the overall length (half of a baluster width at each end, so 110.75 + 1.5 = 112.25), divide that by the number of spaces (112.25 / 21= 5.345") which rounds to 3 5 3/8"") which gives you your 'centres' dimension. Then, starting from one newel I'd lay out off a tape butting into the face of the newel, the centres dimension giving you the 'far' face of the baluster from the newel. A ConstructionMaster calculator or phone app (or other similar) will give you the overall rounded 'centres' dimensions, one by one, without any incremental error. No fudging needed. Also, the spacing is so babies can't get their heads THRU the gap not so they don't get stuck - if baby can get head thru the gap then baby can go downstairs quicker than baby should.
Go to a hobby store and get an elastic band. Lay it out unstretched and mark every inch. Then you can stretch it out between your posts and get perfect spacing.
I would start laying out the short side. First with minimum number of spindles (closest to max 4") and then with one extra. After that I calculate the long side, given the two spaces, to see wich one of theese would be the best match. From there I would either move the post slightly or use the space that is the best match and adjust it. This way I get the smallest difference on short and long side.
Once you know the spindle count is 20, use your framing square to set a perpendicular to the far post (inside edge). Then draw your tape out to 120" from the inside edge of the near post to the perpendicular. Mark off every 4" and using a framing square. Then drop a perpendicular line to the actual work piece. Each mark will be exactly spaced with no math. Of course this won't work in every situation as you might not have room. Just select a workable number of spindles...perhaps 5 in this case. Do the same thing to get your spacing. Then use dividers to mark out the other locations or make a story stick for five spindles and just move it down the line.
I saw Tom Silva of This Old House fame do that trick measuring with a tape measure. Stated another way, put your tape measure on one end and then stretch it out to the other end and then raise it to a nice easily divisible number (you'll be creating a triangle kinda sorta...tape measure is the hypontenuse) and mark down to the long leg. I use this all the time in my cabinetry work now.
Looks great... But I'd go with screws on top. But the way I would of done it, I would of made the newel post taller, then used an additional handrail/Gaurd rail above the screws making it a two piece system. That would of covered the screws making the handrail more robust. Then attach that additional handrail from below, screw it from in between a few of the spindles. But it's all getting painted... :) Plus your math is spot on.
Scrolled by an add on FB today of your California Patch video. I was like, hey, I recognize that 4 inch blade! ha. It was linked to you and I am sure it is on the up and up and not stolen. Been following you for a year or so and just thought you would like to know.
measure by inch is good, but is a bit easier here with use mm instead. 110.75" = 2813.05mm, 80.75" = 2051.05mm, so 2813.05mm - 2051.05mm = 762mm. Then divided it by 21 = 36.2857mm per each gap. It is still a long decimal number, but this decimal number is slightly easier on mm than on inch measurement, agree?
I do alot of rail and here is my way 110.75 + 1.5 " 1 picket " =112.25 ÷ 5.5 = 20.409 round up to 21 . So 112.25 ÷ 21 spaces = 5.342 centers 20 pickets then using calculator store 5.342 in memory function then add memory recall and continue thru entire length. For example 5.342+ memory recall = 10.684 + memory recall = 16.026 ... this is basic math and with a little practice your pickets will be perfect every time and layout top and bottom at same time with square
Metric in NZ too, a lot easier. Been a while since I did a hand rail but last time I divided all the gaps in half until I got down to the last size which happened to be just smaller than what was regulation , in that case halving worked okay. So say your total length was 1.6 meters half that is 800 millimeters then half that is 400 millimeters then half that is 200 mm then finally half that is 100 mm (or 4 inches ) to the center. If it works out close it's a quick easy way as you can just quickly work it out on a piece of paper or the good old block of wood.
First issue, not double screwing the bottom rail balusters which can now twist over time. Dowels would have been a better option than screws, but again the balusters can twist...even after being glued. Ideally, you could have dado'ed the top and bottom rail and ripped some biscuits to fit between the balusters inside the dado. Glue and double brad each baluster, brads hidden inside dado/biscuits.
Instead of marking the top rail on the bottom of the spindles you can make a template piece the same length and put those marks on it, then put it on top of the spindles and attach it to both the newel posts so it doesn't move, line up and drill all the dowel holes. Take that template and drill the top rail, then cut the template in half and use it to clamp the spindles in alignment. Simpler than explaining it.
@@nathanmitchell4839 The only way i know if you are using hardwood to be stained and clear sealed, you may need to weight the top rail down while the glue sets. I used nice brass 90 corners under the rail on each end to provide end to end strength, ( Lee Valley ). Some guys use a ledger under the rail on both side of the spindle to hide the screws, if toe-nailing as our man did in the video. My preference is to use glass panels in between posts along the rail, a more modern look that would not suit everyone, but the clear view and light transfer is great.
For the top rail, particularly since this will be painted - could you thickness the rail to be ~3/16" oversized then rip it 3/4's up from the bottom. Use the 3/4''s piece to attach it directly into your spindles from the top. Than glue your remaining 1/4" piece to the in place top and plane the sides flush of any variation? Basically, just veenering a top on to hide all the screw heads?
you should always mark centres of each post not edges. especially when dealing with an irregular material like wood. There I also a far simpler way to do this. Find centre of the space then if you want a 4" spacing simply take the spindle with plus space (as he did) so 5.5" and lay your tape at an interval of 5.5 so say 44 or 49.5 etc to get yourself as close as you can to your end. If that space is greater than half of 5.5" you will set the centre of a space at your over all centre mark instead of the centre of a spindle. Its always one or the other. once you've decided which it is simple make a mark every 5.5"
I go about it the same way. Test the spacer block by skipping down the run as you did. If the last one ends up gapped put a layer of masking tape on the spacer block and recheck. Of course not all railings need that type of attention 🍻
What do they teach you at school in woodwork classes, in America? I thought all this type of DIY is like 1st year woodwork at high schools same with metalwork?
1 - Math will never fail you its constant. 2 - the block method will fail you first. 3 - you never measure post to post. You measure post to where your last spindle will b. 4 - just fudge the last 7 or 8 spindles
I like the simple look of the railing and posts. What was the name of that wood again? Clear Hemlock? Is it expensive? Can you give the dimensions of the lumber used. Thanks
Great video Ben, But there's a much easier way of laying out ballusters.... Take overall run, add the thickness of 1 balluster. (Known as a ghost balluster).Divide this new run by desired space and balluster. Ex. 48" of run + 1/12" balluster -491/2". Divide by desired space + 1 balluster. 49 1/2" ÷ 5= 9.8 rounded up to 10. 49 1/2" ÷10= 4.95" . Or, 4 15/16". Now, pull your tape and mark 4 15/16". This is the leading edge of the balluster. Continue adding this measurement and marking each leading edge.
Always measure from the same point. Using blocks and moving them will give you a fraction off all the time creating a larger error the further you go. If you measurement (space + spindle) is for example 9,55 inches. Your next would be 19,10. Etc.. one point of measure. Minimum error.
Ok, simply use a top plate full length. Screw straight down for structural strength. Place a u shaped cap rail over top. Then glue & tack cap rail with braids from the sides
1. Take overall inside measurement. 2. Add width of (1) spindle to overall inside measurement. 3. Determine desired spacing between spindles and add width of one spindle. 4. Divide sum of ( # .1) by ( # .3 ) 5. Round quotient of ( # .4) to closest whole #. 6. Divide ( #.1) by whole # from ( #.5 ) . If there is a remainder, convert it from tenths to 16ths of an inch by multiplying by 16. THIS IS THE ON CENTER SPACING OF SPINDLES. 7. EXAMPLE... if ( #.6) is [ 4.5 inches ] then [ .5 × 16 ] = 8. Which is 8/16. Which is reduced to 1/2". SO...4.5 " is 4-1/2". REMEMBER... there is a life safety code that restricts maximum spacing on railings. 8. Finally, begin layout by burning thickness of one spindle, then layout using your acquired measurement from ( #.5). AGAIN...YOU MUST LOOK @ LAYOUT FROM CENTER TO CENTER OF SPINDLES. TO RECAP... beginning @ inside, overall measurement...burn thickness of one spindle and then put mark @ measurement you got from ( #.5 ) Put an X behind or. " set back " from your layout marks. The spindles go on the side of mark where the X is. Simple Arithmetic... If you don't know what it means to " burn " just ask any carpenter. Or just get him to do it for you.
I definitely would not toe screw or pocket screw those spindles. I think my choice would be to remove the top rail, drill small holes in the spindles and top plate and insert dowels, glue it. If you're concerned about clamping it while the glue sets you could use a split dowel with a wedge which tightens it in the hole when it is fully inserted.
Ben, great video
1- regarding the top rail. When you're drilling the base rail, clamp the top rail down the center of the base. So when you make a drill plunge you make a duplicate. Use a drill stop in the cap, not to drill through the top cap. Boar out larger size hole into spindles and bottom of cap rail, to use wood dowels and glue to secure top rail. Finished product is strong as using hardware.
2- another method to secure top rail. Make a dual section cap. A plate that's rectangular in shape and the width of the spindle, line up cap like above screw all the way through. Adhere from the top down into the spindles with screws. Place a "U" shape cap rail over the base rail. Glue the mounted cap, shoot finished brads into the sides.
Now you have the strength of the screw and a finished hand rail cap no securing method showing 🙂
that first method sounds like a winner
I started scrolling through the comments to see if anyone suggested dowels or a two piece cap, and you beat me to both! Two piece caps without even trying to hide the (thin, 0.25-0.75") lower layer are common near me, especially on decks.
@@halfplushalfsqrt5 😆 Great minds think alike.
I would use hanger bolts on the top. Seems that would be the quick and secure method, then do your bottom rail.
@@halfplushalfsqrt5 I just did the same thing. One thing though, Mansard Manor went into a lot more detail. I bet he's done it before!
You got no idea how much I’ve learned from watching your videos man! I love your work ethics and ideas thanks!!!
When installing, start in the middle so that you can do your little fudge on each ends. Second, when checking your dimensions with your pencil and block, you can cut the time it takes in half by only doing half, and then confirming it to be halfway with the tape measure. This is true of any divided, segmented material layout.
Starting in the middle doesn't give you equal spacing all the way through, that's the only issue.
Great content, love your videos!
I think the reason your layout didn't ad up is simple, you measured your empty space with all the spindles pushed together which is great, that accounts for all the variences the spindles may have.. when you did your lay out you used the same block repeatedly... Which doesn't account for the variences between 20 pieces.. I guess one way your method would have worked out is if you had used a thickness planer prior to doing the layout.. it only takes 8 spindles to be short by 1/32 to equate that 1/4" gap. Hope this makes sense! Cheers :)
For attaching the top to spindles you can use a 1x board on top and screws straight down just as you did not want to do. Then place that nice 2x rail. Then you can screw through the 1x from underside and secure it to 2x cap. You can dress the seam between the 2 boards with small molding.
It’s good to see someone who really cares about quality work.Great video and some very teachable moments.
When I worked for a stair builder, we would use a pair of dividers set to the distance between the ballisters on center. Then starting from the center point of the first ballister, walk them down to the location of the center of the last ballister. If you were off, adjust the dividers more or less to compensate for the difference, then walk them down again from start to finish. At each point, we drilled holes in the floor and the railing for the ballister dowel pins, which we glued in place. This method was fast and accurate and works for curves as well as straight lines. We once built and put in an elliptical staircase where the curve of the balcony followed the ellipse curve of the stairs and this method worked perfectly.
I measure what inside is. divide in half make center mark. nail spindle at top centered on mark. level spindle nail off then use 2x4. spacer hold spindles on edge 2x4 and check level ever so often usually comes out even sometime have cut one in half..looks very nice! love your work!
I love the multiply the (decimal part of the number) by 16 to get back to fractions. It makes our stubborn way tolerable. So many times I could have used that math.
Start marking from middle and you halve marking error and both ends would be similar.
Make top rail from 2 piece lower part you screw just way you did bottom then glue upper part to it little bit sanding on both side when glue is dry no need to fill any screw hole.
Yup! 2 piece would have been the way to go. I can visualize that.
Thoroughly enjoyed the video. Simple tip on most jobs requiring equal spacing I do the math then simply start in the middle and work outwards, thereby equally spacing the minor inevitable difference between the two ends.
wood dowels top and bottom, nice neat finish nothing showing but I've used clear varnish
Or even contrasting wood dowels, but definitely a client discussion required for that one!
I've also seen a ⅛" deep track routed under the handrail to align the spindles, which are then screw fixed inline, so the putty is in shadow. It gave the rail additional purchase in the hand, but I wished that the carpenter had sanded the finest bevel, as the edge was a little sharp in places where the polyurethane had formed drip edges.
I think he's suggesting that the dowels not be visible at all. You can make the dowels whatever color or wood species you want if they're jammed into two blind holes.
Try plowed rails and fillets between your ballusters.. Everything llocks together and only needs bradd. Or a secondary hand rail on top to hide screws
Oh yeah, I was thinking the same thing!
You are very good at ciphering. thank you.
The metric system is so much better. Listening to all those conversions left me needing a pint :-)
I would've screwed the top and installed a top plate.
THANK YOU! You said it before I did but didn't see yours till after I posted the same thing. hahaha
Remember if your spindles have a skinny part you have to make them
Spacing is actually supposed to be four inches ON CENTER.
This way, skinny wrought iron spindles and beefy wooden spindles are spaced safely with a space that can't possibly be more than 4 inches
Wes Buckley that makes sure there is not an issue, but so does a 1” gap. The requirement is 4” spacing between. Balusters must be installed close enough that the space between them is no greater than 4 inches. A 4-inch ball might be used by the inspector to verify the spacing. Once installed, I think there is also a requirement for the balusters to hold up under 50 lbs. of pressure exerted over a 1-square-foot area
Perhaps it is just the manufacturer's install instructions on using 4 inch center to center, and not the building code book. One could assume they would be the same, but knowing that the maximum open space is 4 inches could help even out layout and save the cost of one extra spindle.
That dividing by 16 trick is really handy to know. Great tip!!!
I use the elastic band truck as seen on " how to build a porch rail,, this old house". There is no measuring ,other than to confirm you're under 4" and it is super fast.
I love your videos! I've been told multiple times that nails are usually stronger than screws.
You are a mathematician too. Good observation multiplying by 16 is the same as dividing by 1/16. Very cool and a good one. Thanks for this video.
I start in the center and then work to the left and right. Cuts layout deviations in half. Your job looks great. A deviation of a half inch no one will notice, or care about if you point it out to them.
First I have to say that I just love, love, love your videos! Now I think I would've used your spacer and laid all of your spindles out in order to get a good feel for how they would line up in the run. Then make your adjustments and marks as needed. After putting the single screw in the bottom of each one I would go back with a small nail towards the corner of each in order to keep them from ever twisting. On the top after getting your marks made use wooden dowels in the center of each and you can still use a small nail to the side of each just drive it a little more than halfway into each spindle and then cut the head off at an angle. I hope this helps in the future for projects that won't be painted. :-)
As far as the handrail either use dowels and glue or use screw in between pickets and cover screw holes by cutting fillet pieces and pin nail them through the fillet. Hope that helps.
You've made this sound way more complicated than it needed to be.
Yeah very great way of explaining how to break down the calculations. He knows his stuff.
That tone towards the end of the video is a very good way to remind everyone that it's only Monday.
8:14 extremely clever! And it’s nice someone knows about the “plus” technique when talking 16th of an inch.
I am a 66 yr old handyman in Northern California wine country - Sonoma County - NOT Napa. I have been handy manning for 27 years - before that I was a mechanical engineer in Silicon Valley. Regarding your spacing -- that is exactly how i do it. There is ALWAYS a little fudge factor at the end that you distribute among the last 3-6 pieces. Well done! Human perception is NOT THAT accurate!
Good to see the Vancouver Carpenter doing carpentry! Thank you for your channel man!
I was really going to suggest he change the name of the channel to Vancouver Drywaller! Nice job, Ben. That's a nice clean railing.
🙂
13.5/16" is also 27/32" which one can find on an imperial tape measure. This is a great argument for the metric system, and I'm american. Imperial system is cumbersome and archaic.
Here in England the top rail has a rebate all the way along it. So you don't fix the spindles at all. Instead we make spacer pieces and fix from the underside. Great vids mate!
Being in the process of renovating my mother's old apartment I really need to stop watching your videos, as everytime I see a new topic, I want to try renovating or changing out something more in her house 😅
Thank you for the great videos!!
😂
Thanks for the overview, I learned a couple of tricks I can use and appreciate it.
And you do know that you can buy Imperial measuring tape that has markings in decimal .. right??
That being said, It's not 'easier' in metric if one has the skills and practices. No matter what measuring system is used, one can still end up with an odd fraction depending on the number of spindles one has. Using an 'odd' number of spindles means an even number of spaces which can make the math easier.
The reality is that anything less than 1/8 isn't noticeable by most people, and 1/16th by most of the rest. Adjusting at the ends works. In this case, you could have done one at 3 13/16s and the next and 3 14/16ths (7/8s). Then the adjustments at the end would have been even less.
I find that starting in the middle can be better as one has two ends to make the micro-adjustments. It can require a little more precision at first, but I've done it successfully.
Regardless, thank you for taking the time to make the video. I always learn something new watching your videos.
That is pure nonsense, you're not going to end up with a fraction using the metric system, if you do, you're doing it wrong.
That's the point of the metric system. Meters, centimeters, millimeters, micrometers, nanometers, picometers... so on.
Need more precision, go down the scale.
also dowels and glue is best for setting hand rail. no holes, no nails stronger connection. We will use a piece of flat mdd baseboard or something nice and straight at the base plate clamped parallel to the base plate against the first and last post which will keep all the posts parallel as it dries. if the rail is bowed in the centre you can toe screw the middle spindle top and bottom or you can use a clamp between ceiling and rail to push down over night
If you use a pocket hole jig and dowels to fill holes, you get easy toe screwing and a clean finish
Love your videos Bro, You Rock!! Tip: Download a construction calculator which provides feet and inches. Makes life simple!!
Nice to come across this. Any videos on the other components of this hand rail construction? The attachment of the posts to the base(shoe rail) for example.
Baluster Formula with fillets or spacing without shoe molding:
I usually take the TS(total span) and divide it by 5.5 to get an approximate BN(baluster number) then plug it into the following formula. Other variables are BW(baluster width) and the result your aiming for which is FL(fillet length) So say 100” for TS divided by 5.5” = about 18 balusters
EXAMPLE-
TS-(BNxBW)/BN+1=FL
100-(18x1.5)/18+1=FL
100-27/19=FL
73/19=FL
3.84=FL
So FL=about 3 13/16” spacing or fillet length
I then Check it just like you, marking off the spacing and adjust the last 3 balusters(on a run this long) for pretty much consistent looking spacing. This works best for square balusters. For balusters that have been turned with deep grooves I usually divide the TS by “5” to bring the balusters a bit closer to try to hit the 4 inch mark. Learned this from my Uncle years ago.
I like your formula just easier with a few more parentheses. (TN-(BNxBW))/(BN+1)= spacing
Fml we did a whole ass week on baluster spacing/equal spaces in 4th year and I completely forgot all of it, this was the formula I was trying to remember!
I was with you at 112.25" being divided by 21 which gives a spacing or 5.34". Your first spacing from either post would be 5.34" less 3/4" (half the with of a baluster) and then 5.34" for each baluster center after that. I use divider calipers and walk off the spacing to the next newel. If the spacing is slightly off I make a minor adjustment in the caliper and start from the other end until the spacing is correct. You can also use a calculator and keep adding 5.34" to get the next center.
Find center on runners walk out left and right of center mark 2 inches then 4 inches the rest of the way if the picket are to close to post. Start with pickits center to center on runner and walk out left and right 4 inch of your center. Perfectly spaces and done
Love the metric stubborn quote 😀😀😀😀
Great method on the layout. Re:top screws I would have used a 1/4” x 1.5” sub-rail strip and top screwed/glued into that. Then either let that form a 1/4” shadow line on the underside of the cap, or plowed a 1.5” wide dado the length of the cap rail, either full 1/4” depth for a flush look, or maybe 1/8” to leave a 1/8” shadow line. Either way, then you glue and screw UP into the cap rail. You still have a few fasteners to conceal but it’s much less noticeable, and can add a lot of strength if glued/clamped.
Good video - If viewing in the UK the 4" GAP would not be suitable as it comes to almost 102mm metric. You would have to do the same as above but allow for 99mm max gap as Building Control states that "Construction should be such that a 100mm sphere CANNOT pass through any opening in the guarding" - hence 99mm max. (Possibly allow for even tighter spacing if not straight but curved spindles and or newels)
Wow I didn’t know how the metric system is great 😅 good video 👍🏼
To answer your question, I would counter sink the screws, and use wood dowells as plugs and cut them flush
(Total length + width of one post) devided by number of spaces. That should give you the spacing between each post, except start and end is minus half the width of a post. This only works if all posts are the same size.
I would also predrill top and bottom at the same time, but not all the way through the top. Then make the predrilled holes in the top larger to fit a dowel, and use that to hold the posts. Gluing that is just as strong, if not stronger, than a screw.
Get yourself a set of gage blocks! Find the distance between each spindle, ring the gage blocks together. Perfect placement down the the ten thousandth of an inch!
Thanks Ben for ALL your great tips and teachings.
Just want to add a tip to your method of laying out the spindles.
As shown in the video at 5:06, there was about a 1/4" extra in last space.
What I've done in the past in cases like that, is wrap 1 or 2 or 3, etc... layers of masking tape around the end of the spacer block to add fractions of length to the block.
Do the "double check" again, and you should see a reduction in the extra space at the end.
If your block doesn't fit in the end space, either go with it, or just remove one layer of tape, or if you only had one layer, use thinner tape.
Hope this helps some of you.
Or make a spreadsheet with all the multiples starting from zero, and mark them all with one tape measure - gets rid of any accumulative errors.
I wish I could understand what your talking about as 5 people have liked your comment lol
Did that a week ago! Works!
AND... "Numbers" in Mac OS will break measurements down to 16ths. Not much reason to get more accurate than that.
One more thing... this can be translated to diagonals through rise:run ratios.
Tbh as he said just use.metric and you can it pretty much perfect
Beautiful job vc
Get a measuring tape that has both decimals and fractions, hard to find but when you do buy two. Tip one make a list, down lode it from the web save in your note book or your phone.1/32=.03125, 1/16=.0625, 3/32=.09375, 1/8=.125, 5/32=.15625, 3/16=.1875, 7/32=.21875, 1/4=.25 etc. No toe screws, it's going to be painted. pre- driil counter sink fill the top with a dowel and gorilla glue (whatever that expansion foam stuff is called) sand and paint.
The incremental error introduced by rounding and then using a cut off & a spacer block is the problem with this method. I'd add 1.5" to the overall length (half of a baluster width at each end, so 110.75 + 1.5 = 112.25), divide that by the number of spaces (112.25 / 21= 5.345") which rounds to 3 5 3/8"") which gives you your 'centres' dimension. Then, starting from one newel I'd lay out off a tape butting into the face of the newel, the centres dimension giving you the 'far' face of the baluster from the newel. A ConstructionMaster calculator or phone app (or other similar) will give you the overall rounded 'centres' dimensions, one by one, without any incremental error. No fudging needed.
Also, the spacing is so babies can't get their heads THRU the gap not so they don't get stuck - if baby can get head thru the gap then baby can go downstairs quicker than baby should.
Finalyyyyyyy someone explained this Islam east simple format thank youuuuuuu
You are too funny but extremely helpfull! I'm gonna use this on my deck rail.
Very easy to follow Ben ~ I would screw from the top for strength, but it's only my personal preference.
Rip it in half, screw from top then glue the other half back on. Like your work
Go to a hobby store and get an elastic band. Lay it out unstretched and mark every inch. Then you can stretch it out between your posts and get perfect spacing.
The Tom Silva method mentioned in other comments. Not sure he originated it, but you can find the video online where he explains it.
I would start laying out the short side. First with minimum number of spindles (closest to max 4") and then with one extra. After that I calculate the long side, given the two spaces, to see wich one of theese would be the best match. From there I would either move the post slightly or use the space that is the best match and adjust it.
This way I get the smallest difference on short and long side.
Once you know the spindle count is 20, use your framing square to set a perpendicular to the far post (inside edge). Then draw your tape out to 120" from the inside edge of the near post to the perpendicular. Mark off every 4" and using a framing square. Then drop a perpendicular line to the actual work piece. Each mark will be exactly spaced with no math. Of course this won't work in every situation as you might not have room. Just select a workable number of spindles...perhaps 5 in this case. Do the same thing to get your spacing. Then use dividers to mark out the other locations or make a story stick for five spindles and just move it down the line.
I saw Tom Silva of This Old House fame do that trick measuring with a tape measure. Stated another way, put your tape measure on one end and then stretch it out to the other end and then raise it to a nice easily divisible number (you'll be creating a triangle kinda sorta...tape measure is the hypontenuse) and mark down to the long leg. I use this all the time in my cabinetry work now.
Looks great... But I'd go with screws on top. But the way I would of done it, I would of made the newel post taller, then used an additional handrail/Gaurd rail above the screws making it a two piece system. That would of covered the screws making the handrail more robust. Then attach that additional handrail from below, screw it from in between a few of the spindles.
But it's all getting painted... :) Plus your math is spot on.
Scrolled by an add on FB today of your California Patch video. I was like, hey, I recognize that 4 inch blade! ha. It was linked to you and I am sure it is on the up and up and not stolen. Been following you for a year or so and just thought you would like to know.
measure by inch is good, but is a bit easier here with use mm instead. 110.75" = 2813.05mm, 80.75" = 2051.05mm, so 2813.05mm - 2051.05mm = 762mm. Then divided it by 21 = 36.2857mm per each gap. It is still a long decimal number, but this decimal number is slightly easier on mm than on inch measurement, agree?
Thanks for the help!
I do alot of rail and here is my way
110.75 + 1.5 " 1 picket " =112.25 ÷ 5.5 = 20.409 round up to 21 . So 112.25 ÷ 21 spaces = 5.342 centers 20 pickets then using calculator store 5.342 in memory function then add memory recall and continue thru entire length. For example 5.342+ memory recall = 10.684 + memory recall = 16.026 ... this is basic math and with a little practice your pickets will be perfect every time and layout top and bottom at same time with square
Metric in NZ too, a lot easier. Been a while since I did a hand rail but last time I divided all the gaps in half until I got down to the last size which happened to be just smaller than what was regulation , in that case halving worked okay. So say your total length was 1.6 meters half that is 800 millimeters then half that is 400 millimeters then half that is 200 mm then finally half that is 100 mm (or 4 inches ) to the center. If it works out close it's a quick easy way as you can just quickly work it out on a piece of paper or the good old block of wood.
Great job!
Hemlocks.... The Ferrari of trees. It's a shame all the bugs are absolutely decimating them. Beautiful trees and beautiful wood.
First issue, not double screwing the bottom rail balusters which can now twist over time. Dowels would have been a better option than screws, but again the balusters can twist...even after being glued. Ideally, you could have dado'ed the top and bottom rail and ripped some biscuits to fit between the balusters inside the dado. Glue and double brad each baluster, brads hidden inside dado/biscuits.
When it's a lot of spindles I find it better to start off in the middle
I find it better to do it the right way 🤣🤣🤣🤣 tell him to watch the next guy on the tube standing at his fence 🤭🤭🤭😳😳🤣🤣
Dowel pins. Drill a hole in both the spindle and the top rail.
That's what I was going to suggest. Kinda tricky getting all of them to line up but still quicker than screwing.
Instead of marking the top rail on the bottom of the spindles you can make a template piece the same length and put those marks on it, then put it on top of the spindles and attach it to both the newel posts so it doesn't move, line up and drill all the dowel holes. Take that template and drill the top rail, then cut the template in half and use it to clamp the spindles in alignment. Simpler than explaining it.
@@nathanmitchell4839 The only way i know if you are using hardwood to be stained and clear sealed, you may need to weight the top rail down while the glue sets. I used nice brass 90 corners under the rail on each end to provide end to end strength, ( Lee Valley ). Some guys use a ledger under the rail on both side of the spindle to hide the screws, if toe-nailing as our man did in the video. My preference is to use glass panels in between posts along the rail, a more modern look that would not suit everyone, but the clear view and light transfer is great.
Just put a cap on it.
Is there a video or explanation how you then fitted to the floor?
I noticed the newel is not anchored down into structure. How much stronger would it have been if the Newel were secured to floor joists?
For the top rail, particularly since this will be painted - could you thickness the rail to be ~3/16" oversized then rip it 3/4's up from the bottom. Use the 3/4''s piece to attach it directly into your spindles from the top. Than glue your remaining 1/4" piece to the in place top and plane the sides flush of any variation? Basically, just veenering a top on to hide all the screw heads?
Just what I was wondering. Great idea sir.
👍
great video keep up the great work
Wait! You’re a carpenter!!?? Haha. I like the video. This is one of those things I forget to do right too often.
you should always mark centres of each post not edges. especially when dealing with an irregular material like wood. There I also a far simpler way to do this. Find centre of the space then if you want a 4" spacing simply take the spindle with plus space (as he did) so 5.5" and lay your tape at an interval of 5.5 so say 44 or 49.5 etc to get yourself as close as you can to your end. If that space is greater than half of 5.5" you will set the centre of a space at your over all centre mark instead of the centre of a spindle. Its always one or the other. once you've decided which it is simple make a mark every 5.5"
I would have used digital calipers and marked the spindle centers that way. That was before I watched this. Your method seems easier.
I go about it the same way. Test the spacer block by skipping down the run as you did. If the last one ends up gapped put a layer of masking tape on the spacer block and recheck. Of course not all railings need that type of attention 🍻
Masking tape! Genius!
"For you metric folks....we justdon't do that here. Cuz were stubborn." So true!
Not stubborn, just smart enough to read our tape measures.
Americans...
use hardwood dowels for the top rail
What do they teach you at school in woodwork classes, in America? I thought all this type of DIY is like 1st year woodwork at high schools same with metalwork?
1 - Math will never fail you its constant.
2 - the block method will fail you first.
3 - you never measure post to post. You measure post to where your last spindle will b.
4 - just fudge the last 7 or 8 spindles
I like the simple look of the railing and posts. What was the name of that wood again? Clear Hemlock? Is it expensive? Can you give the dimensions of the lumber used. Thanks
Great video Ben,
But there's a much easier way of laying out ballusters....
Take overall run, add the thickness of 1 balluster. (Known as a ghost balluster).Divide this new run by desired space and balluster.
Ex. 48" of run + 1/12" balluster -491/2". Divide by desired space + 1 balluster. 49 1/2" ÷ 5= 9.8 rounded up to 10. 49 1/2" ÷10= 4.95" . Or, 4 15/16". Now, pull your tape and mark 4 15/16". This is the leading edge of the balluster. Continue adding this measurement and marking each leading edge.
Nathan Silver quite possibly the most confusing thing I've read today (and I've read a lot about a lot today)
Nice video, My Idea would be to screw down from the top Rail all your spindles then put a Wider Cap over the top fastened from the underside... Greg
Always measure from the same point. Using blocks and moving them will give you a fraction off all the time creating a larger error the further you go. If you measurement (space + spindle) is for example 9,55 inches. Your next would be 19,10. Etc.. one point of measure. Minimum error.
I was thinking big dowels or mortise the top & bottom rails, use longer spindle?
But I'm a plumber, not a carpenter.
How do you secure the bottom to the floorboard?
Wow, wish to see the entire stair remodel
I'd bet all that toe-screwing would be worth throwing a pocket-hole jig like a Kreg on there. Nice easy wood plugs they make too.
Ok, simply use a top plate full length. Screw straight down for structural strength. Place a u shaped cap rail over top. Then glue & tack cap rail with braids from the sides
"Math will fail you" HA! take that 10th grade teacher Mrs. Kline!!!! lol
3:47. yup, ur quite right. metric is.....well....ALOT easier
Thanks man really helped
I use the construction calculator pro app. I find it easy to use
Leaning over the stairwell while drilling has my vertigo spinning like a hurricane. You gotta stop doing that!! 🙏🏼👂🏼🧠👀🤬🧻
Exactly, that is not the best way to do it. I hopped he would comment that we should do it like him
Man, I just did such an exact same job down here in Portland. Different style finish, same exact scenario. Check out the video!
1. Take overall inside measurement.
2. Add width of (1) spindle to overall inside measurement.
3. Determine desired spacing between spindles and add width of one spindle.
4. Divide sum of ( # .1) by ( # .3 )
5. Round quotient of ( # .4) to closest whole #.
6. Divide ( #.1) by whole # from
( #.5 ) . If there is a remainder, convert it from tenths to 16ths of an inch by multiplying by 16. THIS IS THE ON CENTER SPACING OF SPINDLES.
7. EXAMPLE... if ( #.6) is [ 4.5 inches ] then [ .5 × 16 ] = 8. Which is 8/16. Which is reduced to 1/2". SO...4.5 " is 4-1/2".
REMEMBER... there is a life safety code that restricts maximum spacing on railings.
8. Finally, begin layout by burning thickness of one spindle, then layout using your acquired measurement from ( #.5).
AGAIN...YOU MUST LOOK @ LAYOUT FROM CENTER TO CENTER OF SPINDLES.
TO RECAP... beginning @ inside, overall measurement...burn thickness of one spindle and then put mark @ measurement you got from ( #.5 ) Put an X behind or. " set back " from your layout marks. The spindles go on the side of mark where the X is.
Simple Arithmetic...
If you don't know what it means to " burn " just ask any carpenter. Or just get him to do it for you.
I definitely would not toe screw or pocket screw those spindles.
I think my choice would be to remove the top rail, drill small holes in the spindles and top plate and insert dowels, glue it.
If you're concerned about clamping it while the glue sets you could use a split dowel with a wedge which tightens it in the hole when it is fully inserted.