Makita RT0701C vs. Dewalt DWP611 as a CNC Spindle
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- Опубліковано 27 лис 2024
- This is my take on which router has more desirable qualities as a CNC spindle. You may not care about things like acoustics, but I tried to cover as many aspects as I could.
Update: One point I forgot to mention is that the Makita is about 1/2" shorter than the Dewalt. You need an endmill of a suitable length if you want to cut at or below the height of the wasteboard.
Makita RT0701C - amzn.to/2h19uMr
Dewalt DWP611 - amzn.to/2fMPRrh
Makita Reduction Bushing for Shapeoko - shop.carbide3d...
Non-Contact Tachometer: amzn.to/2fRO7YT
Also, for those that are curious, my measured RPMs are as follows:
Makita
1 - 9.7k
2 - 12.1k
3 - 16.7k
4 - 22k
5 - 26.6k
6 - 29.7k
Dewalt
1 - 16.2k
2 - 17.4k
3 - 19.2k
4 - 21.3k
5 - 23.6k
6 - 26.9k
The Makita was my choice for my XL based on the speed range. It is working perfectly and the longest job has been about 6 hours. (Before I knew what I was doing with feed rates, etc.) The router did not heat up at all. For all around use I think the Makita was a good choice. Keep on producing your videos. I find them very useful. BTW, the SUCKIT looks like a great addition to the SO3.
I have the Makita RT0701C (but no CNC yet) and I love it. However, in the manual it states the following (direct quote): "If the tool is operated continuously at low speeds for a long time, the motor will get overloaded, resulting in tool malfunction."
Having only run it hand held, mostly for edging and the occasional pattern, I usually have it on for about 1-2 minutes at most before giving it a rest while I make adjustments to my work piece (noise being the main reason I turn it off) so I have no idea what "malfunction" actually means or what Makita feels is a "long time". My best guess is that running it at slow speeds does not allow the motor to cool. Other than a potentiometer there doesn't seem to be any electronics in this thing to overheat or stress.
Makita does not define specifically what they consider to be "low speeds". The manual lists the machine's 6 speeds (which are similar to what Winston quotes) as: 1=10k, 2=12k, 3=17k, 4-22k, 5=27k, 6=30k.
They don't say which of these are "low speeds"...everything but 6? Speeds 1-3? Anything under 3? Only speed 1 (10k)? Overheating an electric motor is not a good thing obviously, so I assume their warning is about burning the motor out and that the fan doesn't provide enough cooling at lower speeds. Unfortunately, the manual says nothing specific about any of this and the Makita website does not seem to provide further detail. Of course ambient temperature will play a factor as well as the loads on the motor (materials, bit type, bit sharpness, feed speed, etc) but it would have been nice for them to at least provide some rough basic numbers, something like "at 20C avoid running the motor continuously at speed 1/2/3 for longer than 20 minutes, in 30C weather reduce this to 10 minutes." On the other hand, they aren't selling this machine as a CNC router. If they were they'd probably also tell you what the diameter is and possibly other dimensions.
If anyone has experience running this Makita at "low speeds" for a "long time" I'm sure others would be interested to hear about your experience, particularly if they are planning to do long CNC runs.
I've been wondering the same thing. I saw the same warning on a different maker's router (don't remember which) and began to wonder if this "don't run it a long time on low speeds" is somewhat universal in routers with a variable speed adjustment, in which case the Dewalt might have the exact same heating issues.
Someone with experience, please chime in! I'd like to know if I can run an hour-long job (with moderate loads) at the lowest speed.
I have the Makita fitted to a Workbee CNC and have run the thing at minimum RPM for several hours with no issue at all. However, I'm only using small cutters (less than 3mm diameter) so the load is light. Perhaps the issue arises when the router is under high torque for a long time with the fan obviously not shifting as much air as it does at higher speeds. I guess a supplementary fan fitted above the router would solve that issue.
@@ColinMill1 Thanks. That's good to know.
We use the Makita routers on our machines and love them. But the collets on the Dewalt are nice. Good video keep them coming. Best Matt
I just really love your videos. They have the perfect balance of Science and real-world Shop experience. I have a Chinese water cooled spindle on my CNC router. I'm very impressed with the quality. The bearings are particularly nice. Spending it by hand, it feels smoother than just about any spindle I've ever experienced including some very expensive CNC spindles, and the price wasn't much more than buying a router at Home Depot.
Liberty4Ever hi, you and a few others have mentioned the Chinese spindles. Where are you guys buying them, and is it possible to get one that is more powerful than one of these budget routers that is about the same size and price? I’ve been using a 1hp Bosch colt and after about 2 yrs it’s failing, and has always seemed a bit under powered for my uses.
Love your vids, I was looking through my CNC that I just received from Millright earlier this year (couldn't assemble due to surgery recovery), and as soon as I saw that reduction bushing I was like YES!!! I can turf (or repurpose) the 110v Dewalt provided (USA), and replace with a 230v Makita (AUS).
Imagine my surprise when I found that they're not sold through Carbide3D any more (as per your original link)
Subscribed and look forward to more of your content (either CNC or 3D printing), and hopefully I can get hold of one of those reducing bushings in the meantime.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the info, I am pretty much already knee deep in the Dewalt since that's what I had shipped with my Shapeoko, but it's good to see that there isn't anything so different about one vs the other. No buyers remorse. Still good to know if there was a huge difference, I'd probably invest.
I think that was a very well done and comprehensive comparison from the users perspective. Especially since I don't care about the precise nor nit picking that other perfectionists may be. Thanks again!
*I absolutely love this tool!!! The first one was defective and Dewalt replaced **MyBest.Tools** More bulky than the Bosch and Makita corded palm routers I have but worth it. Nice solid base*
I recommend a Kress 1050 from Germany. It is intended for CNC use and runs very true. You can see it in action on some of my videos. It runs between 5000-28000RPM. The design and built quality is excellent.
The specs on that look really good, and 5000 RPM is even better. I'll put that on my wish list to check out...
Max Maker I don't know if that spindle would work with a stock Shapeoko 3. Looking at the drawings there is only one inch that extends beyond the mounting shoulder of the spindle which isn't long enough for this machine. The z-carriage can't get close enough in its current design. With the last version of the carriage that had the mount at the bottom of the plate it might though. Can't say for sure since I bought my SO3 after the plate was redesigned.
Yeah it might not fit, but you have a CNC to make the parts that will make it fit : ) As soon as I have some more money, I will upgrade though to a water cooled spindle which is much quieter.
wish they were available in North america and at 110v
I had to comment and say that I subbed to you a while ago. Haven't watched many uploads lately. But I remember why I subbed to you, and it was your quality in editing, attention to detail, properly written scripted, and Similar hobbies/passions (I'm a CNC Machinist)
I love watching the residential side of CNC grow to an affordable price and amazed at the different devices in the up & coming development!
Short story you have low subscription count and I believe you deserve more and will get more with time I'm sure!
Great job keep up the good work.
I'm used to larger, corded routers ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQ5_mgwq6PcudJvAH25t-I4D-3cTPz4z so this was a different experience for me. Basically, this is an incredibly sweet machine, fits well in the hand, etc. It has slightly less power than I'm used to, but that's understandable. Maneuvering freehand takes some practice. These days, it's especially nice to be able to avoid power cords. This is above the level of a hobbyist but below a pro level.
I like seeing the geekery about CNCs on your channel. Well done video!
For us european Makita is often cheaper than Dewalt and (until recently may be) way easier to get by. I went with the 1500w spindle for my SO3 (2015) and could not be happier, silence is gold as I work in a 15square meters underground 1 car garage.
You really are so very good at making these videos! Well done Winston- good job!
It might be worth mentioning that the Makita cannot reach the bed of the shpeoko without the bottom wheels of the carriage falling out of the slots. I was looking to do the threaded insert mod that you did but found that I was unable to do so without buying extended reach end mills. I wish I had gone with the Dewalt after finding this out.
to solve your collets getting stuck simple scribble all over the outside with a pencil. this provides the little bit of lubrication it needs to come out when you want it to, but not so much that it will slip.
Top Notch Winston! I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have exercised to produce informative and very well narrated videos. You are on the Brilliant side of UA-cam . I have used your 'opinion' (I'd say expertise) from previous videos to recently purchase the Shapeoko 3 XXL. You have my subscription ... looking forward to more tips and tricks! and of course Thank You!
Be careful with long jobs on the makita I had one catch on fire and the replacement wore out the bearings. Both replaced under their excellent warranty. Kept the last router for hand use and got a Chinese water called spindle and vfd and it's been perfect. And so much less noise.
I have the SO3 with the Dewalt router but I'm thinking of getting the Makita also because of the lower speed range. I'm trying to mill plastics and its melting pretty bad unless I take super shallow cuts. The bottom of the speed range of the Makita seems to be the highest I've ever seen anyone claim they've milled plastics.
Nice video. It's always good to see what's on the market. I wonder how Kress (German brand) will stand against these two.
One comment though, as an acoustic engineer I can tell that the comments and measurements on the sound levels are not completely fair.
Because the Makita is mounted, vibrations propagate trough the (CNC) frame.
In general this gives higher (and 'harsher') sound levels.
You will need to mount both on the same way to get a decent comparison.
For the same reason it wouldn't be a bad idea to insulate (with rubber or so), the router from the frame.
Unfortunately that's also not that easy because rubber isn't hard enough (more play)
There's a lot of things that weren't quite scientific about my comparison. When I did the sound amplitude measurements though, I made sure both Makita and Dewalt were mounted.
For the frequency spectrum part, I realized after the fact that some of the downdraft from the router's exhaust could be blowing at my phone. Should have picked a different position there...
Noise is an issue that I did not think was going to be an issue. Some CNC jobs can take a while to run. So the machine making all kinds of racket can get to be a bit much after a while.
Informative video as always! I'm currently using a 3 phase 1.5kw air cooled spindle on my shapeoko and in the UK it worked out cheaper buying that rather than the Dewalt! Although, it will be interesting to see how long it lasts!
Thank you for this video, exactly what I was looking for!
Where can I find info on the more expensive cnc spindles mentioned?
hello.. May I ask if Makita RT0701C could make a long-run on more than one hour? Thank you!
Chance of testing run-out on them?
I have burned out 4 Dewalt DWP611 routers in my CNC router. The second to last one lasted a few hours and the final one lasted only an hour. My understanding is that it's the variable speed controller. But I'll never buy another one. I replaced it with the Makitra RT0701C which has been great. So far.
Were you using it with dust collection? The usual failure mode is that the motor brushes get worn down and need to be replaced. That happens faster when particulates get pulled through router.
@@WinstonMakes I have a rather large dust collector nozzle within a couple of inches of the cutter and it runs continuously. I did check the brushes and they were all fine.
Thank you for your concise and well balanced review! Great video!
I'm using this makita router on my CNC and so far haven't had any problems with it and I tried milling wood, plastic and aluminum.. Very nice video btw :)
Ive seen so many knock offs of the makita lately. Would be interesting to see if the $30 clones would be any worse, have a feeling it probably wouldnt be any different. Same hp, rpm, everything.
My shapeoko shipped with the carbide spindle, where does this no brand spindle fall in relation to these 2?
What's the name of the CNC machine you are using?
Is that shim still necessary for the Makita? I noticed the Carbide Compact Router uses the same sized 65mm Sweepy as the one Carbide recommends for those who wish to use the Makita. Yet on the Carbide store page, I didn't see anything that indicates the need for the shim to adapt the Makita.
It's included by default in the design before we had the Carbide router, to give people more choice.
@@WinstonMakes I think you just talked me into the Shapeoko over the Nomad. Seem with a Makita I can get low enough speeds to work with brass sheet, yet have room to play with higher RPMs should I decide to play with other mediums. You've been a big, thanks for fielding all of my questions!
What are the diameters of these spindles? 65mm??
what is the best dept per cut and the ipm you can suggest?
Two things I like about my 611 that make using the 0701 tedious, the 611 has a auto release collet and a nice LED to see the work happening inside the dust shoe. Trying to extract a 1/4 shank, 1/16" endmill from the Makita is likely to cost $39 in a broken bit. Anyone know if there is an auto release collet for the Makita?? Without that it's worthless to me.
What about weight? Lighter weight would be better for CNC. I'm assuming Makita is lighter just because it's smaller.
What type of dust extraction bracket is that
If my budget for a spindle were up to $500, what would you recommend for a Shapeoko? I'm looking to carve aluminum.
I personally haven't looked into any alternate spindle options. I wouldn't spend $500 on a VFD or water cooled spindle, I'd spend it on a lead screw Z axis (example: www.beavercnc.co.uk/product-page/bever-cnc-heavy-duty-shapeoko-3-z-x-upgrade). Look up @vince.fab on instagram. Doing plenty with a Makita router. Rigidity is more important, if you cook a router, it's cheap to replace.
I just ordered a Shapeoko 3, coming in next week and ordered it with a Makita. I already have a Bosch Colt, but since I didn't see that as an option, I didn't think of asking if it would fit. Do you know by chance? I guess I can answer that in a week or so when I set the thing up.
I don't know what the diameter of your router is, but if it's not ~68-69mm, the answer is no.
I am planning to buy the Shapeoko 3 and have the Bosch Colt as well . . . will the Bosch fit ???? . . . or should the Makita be the way to go since it will perform at lower speeds. I went to Ed Ford's presentation at the Maker Faire last weekend in San Mateo and was really impressed.
Winston Moy hou mace
Excellent comparison, I am interested in buying the Shapeoko but I am extremely sensitive to noise. Could someone suggest a spindle that I could use instead of a router?
Look for water cooled spindles, but the price starts 3x compared to the makita.
Hi, sorry for my english, but I didn't understand this part: "tremendous racket at full tilt" - please help me to understand.. does Makita has some problems with it's collet? And thank you for the video.
That means it's loud.
"tremendous racket" is slang for "very loud", and "full tilt" is slang for "maximum"...
Can you tell us where you got the vacuum dust collector attachment from? I'm planning on machining a lot of soft ceramic & that will be extremely necessary to keep the dust from destroying everything.
Thanks!
I got mine from Banggood: www.banggood.com/High-Efficiency-Cyclone-Powder-Dust-Collector-Filter-Top-Quality-For-Vacuums-IA1-p-1028998.html
Which is a knock off of: amzn.to/2gpbLj4
It works exactly as intended, although it did take over 3 weeks to show up with standard shipping... There's also a knockoff on Amazon that's rated poorly because... well, it's a knockoff. And it was shipped from China. Shocker. But it's probably from the same mold as the Banggood one, and therefore functional, if spartan...
I like that too, but I was referring to the SuckIt. I found it not long after I asked that! Thanks!
Mike
Great video, I bought the Dust Deputy a few months ago, nice addition to my shop vac! I never thought about looking on Banggood for one!
Try the hatachi, seem more quiet than either.
I know this is a dumb question but how does the machine control the speed of these routers?
I'm late here, but: It doesn't. You adjust the RPM on your router before you start the job.
HI. i have that Makita router, and i use it on my CNC,
my question is, how long can i use it at 12,000 RPM speed, before it needs a break?
Thanks.
I have the similar question. Did you find the answer yet?
What about the RT0702C?
For PSU, how many Amps is good ?
thanks for the video, learned alot
Can anyone tell me why the new Bosch colt 1.25hp router isn't able to be used with the shapeoko 3? I emailed the manufacturer and they simply said that it wasn't able to be used.
Thingiverse has an adapter you can print off.
Very friendly UA-camr you are.
I have just received a Katsu which I plan to use. It looks like the Makita but it’s half the price- anyone tried this? ( I hope it’s not half as good 😢)
Who wouldnt one use a brushless air or water cooled cnc spindle?
Imo the DeWalt is a much better router . LED and you only need one wrench to change bits makes it a win for me .
LEDs are cheap. If you use the red button on the Makita, you only need one wrench to change bits.
+Tapajara LEDs are cheap to install in a Makita router?
Please explain to me how to do this because I see no way to 'cheaply' add led lights to the tool itself.
no need to install in the router, mount to your machine
Aside from the fact that the Makita has a similar spindle stop button I actually prefer the makita 2 wrench solution as using a spindle stop button and single wrench would transfer the torque onto your CNC machine's frame ... which is not ideal it seems. With two wrenches that is less of an issue as you can prevent that torque transfer with the second wrench.
But I think everyone also forgets 1 thing. Availability and accessories. As someone who lives in Europe the Makita is a little easier to find and even more importantly can be obtained for use outside of the CNC (as I can see a fair few wood workers using the CNC in question here) with no less (last I checked) than 4 different bases. That all make it a nice router option for those who might want to use it as a 'dual purpose' router with a maximum in versatility.
What I am trying to say is that the best choice depends very much on your situation and location.
I had a dewalt, changed 4 times the brushes and it just died after 6 months of use, that is nonsense. Also try to change the brushes, it is quite a job. I love Makita, as it holds up in the field, working all day ling for about 2 years now at least 6 hours a day and no problem, changed brushes 3 times with super easy way.
A big concern for these spindles is shaft runout. Did you do any tests there? Also does the bush you used to shim the Makita into the Shapeoko contribute to any imprecision? I know that there are several third parties who make collets for the DeWalt in 1/8 and 1/4" sizes, do they also sell collets for the Makita, or are there any aftermarket collets available? It looks like there's a significant difference in the height of the two routers that you didn't really address that might be a critical factor in making a decision as well, since the Makita seems like it might offer an extra inch of Z axis clearance if it's set up right.
I have not had a chance to properly test runout (need to break out the dial gauge and a longer endmill), but I just did an aluminum job on the Makita and came well within 10 thou of my expected dimensions without somewhat conservative tensioning of the belts... lot of variables, but I've never had any real issues with runout. I'm using a collet reduction bushing (amzn.to/2h4CFOi) since those are platform-agnostic, but there are third-parties that make 1/8" and sometimes other collets for the Dewalt and Makita.
The Dewalt is larger in every dimension, and actually has about half an inch more reach than the Makita, but the Makita's shaft extends past the motor a bit more than the Dewalt, so in my case it'll reach through a dust shoe further than the Dewalt.
Sounds like it's swings and roundabouts, but where I come from, the Makita is half the price of the DeWalt.
i didnt even know the makitia was a popular choice i just went to home depot and bought the smallest one :)
Garrett Green what size is the diameter of the makita?
great video, you answered every question I had.
I would have to say that, now, both are not about $100. The Dewalt costs $60 more then the Makita while the Makita is $99 where I live.
Any thought on loading routers with 1/2" collet?
A lot of these trim routers won't go past 1/4". Specialty collets will get you to 8mm (~5/16) maybe. You could use a 1/4" shank endmill with a flared head to 1/2". Mostly you see these on "spoilboard"/surfacing/fly cutters. It would be perfectly fine, but I suspect the limiting factor will either be motor torque or machine resonance/vibration if you're looking to do more serious material removal.
Winston Moy Thank You
What you're saying is the Makita has a better singing voice with a large vocal range. Dewalt sounds like an amateur soprano vocalist singing in the shower.
$100 6 years ago. $160 today. Cool
$100?.....where the hell did u get ur incorrect data from?....the dewalt 611 is 139.99 reg retail.....not $100....please get ur facts right before you post...thank you
To be fair, he posted this a year and a half ago, so prices may have changed.