MP-10 was waaaaay more affordable when it first released. Well the TRU version was. I got mine at barely over $100 shipped. $449+ for MP-44 is just too much.
Yes it was $100 originally but sold out fast and was being sold on the secondary market for over $300 a few months later. Makes me wonder how many they produced and how few Mp44s will get produced. Thanks
@@MurdermiesteR I don't necessarily need die cast unless its for better tolerance or material. The same goes for rubber tires. Whatever they did for MP-44 is the right way to do it.
Case in point: there's no MP Blaster. So I bought KFC Transistor. And while Titans Return Sixshot is great, it's nothing compared to FT-28 Hydra. And Fans Hobby Double Evil is the best Overlord figure on the planet, 3rd party or not
I don't mean to pick a fight but I think that is a naive way to state things. Hasbro is a company and while back in the day when the Transformers brand was new and they created character after character to extend their profits(GI Joe)..the landscape has changed. They can't just go off and create a new mold for any and all characters..even from the 84 cast..because of economics either they are Takara have determined prior. And 3rd party are IP infringing toys which probably can't be reigned in because of the logistics and cost of enforcement. I'm not anti 3rd party..I have several I eagerly pay for...but let's not pretend it's on the up and up. And lets not pretend Hasbro and Takara are somehow denying fans, look at Siege, that is all fanservice which they think can serve profits. But yet..they have to be selective with what characters they make molds for.
@@bpo1975 There WAS in 2005; IF You Mean Smaller Metal Version. There Have Actually Been 4 Official Blaster Transforming Toys & 3 Fan Made Knock-Offs With One Being Only A Prototype: "TFA; Blaster" Baced On Soundwave With FOC; Blaster Head & Yellow Buzzsaw Guitar!
I will buy whoever has the best figure for the best price. Sometimes KOs improve on the figure. 3rd party companies do a much better job of listening to what fans want
I feel it perfectly ok to buy ko’s. All of third party is illegally making products. So if that’s ok then it’s totally fine to buy ko’s. I don’t feel the slightest bit bad about it. It’s better on my pocket book and a lot of times the figures are better made. And at the end of the day I care about me and my family. I don’t care about the companies whatsoever. If it’s cheaper and just as well made I’m all in.
Exactly! So right! According to these people its okay to steal intellectual property but is not okay to knock off! Eventhough they are both the same thing. I am for KO's and third party. But I just don't get the people who think is okay to buy third party and not KO. They justify it by saying is an original design, but fail to realize that is from an Original design that they don't have the copyrights to produce. They say it's an "interpretation"..because they did not copy it. If I draw spiderman in my own way, eventhough you can obviously tell is Spiderman. Does that character become an Original Creation? The answer is Absolutely "No". I don't understand the reasoning. Some person on here was saying its okay because is a original design, if that robot was not from an "interpretation" ..he wouldn't have bought it. Which he Fail to realize.
@@2007suprasport Yeah, the way I see it I'm just like Hasbro. I'm all about my money and what's best for my shareholders(family), so I inevitably buy KO over official. Sure I could spring for the official, but it's important(and cheaper)to support KO manufacturers. I draw no imaginary lines between 3P and KO either, so I'm happy to support both. If Has/Tak wants my money they should get competitive. Because brand loyalty is not a reasonable justification for spending extra money to me.
kyllerkill knockoff is an outright violation of intellectual property, a third party kind of throws a curveball depending on whether Hasbro copyrights the character’s look.
I agree. If I thought that it is okay to buy third party products but not knock-offs I would be a hypocrite. Besides, sometimes those KO's are improvements over official figures. Take my Megatron figure, for example; a knock-off figure with stiffer joints and more tightly crammed parts, leaving less visible panel lines in the gun mode. I could not stand it if I had to settle with an official figure when there is a better alternative available.
@@hehaeugh8027 Second-Party is when a First-Party company brings in a Third-Party studio under their wing and licenses them to do their work for them! Think of RareWare back when they worked with Nintendo on the SNES and N64!(and GameCube for the short time before they were bought by Microsoft)
Speaking as an attorney of 20 years with a good understanding of IP laws, I can say that changing the figure’s names has nothing to do with skirting Trademark and Copyright laws; it’s about establishing brand identity with the third party manufacturer. If someone searches for (and buys) “Sovereign” (Fans Toys Gavaltron), they know they want the FT version. If Fans Toys sold their figure under the “Galvatron” name, then that doesn’t help reinforce their brand name recognition, reputation and customer loyalty (which is what gets those pre-order dollars in the door”). Violation of IP is all about “consumer confusion.” Would the average, reasonable consumer be confused by the infringing product? Would they think the figure they’re buying was produced by the legal owner of the IP? Changing the name is only a very small part of that. Look at the “Lepin” company that constantly KO’s Lego products. Sometimes they change the name of the set, but only slightly, and they copy the fonts and packaging design. In attempting to establish actual “consumer confusion,” the legal owner will usually prove this by showing actual customer complaints by people who bought a knock off unwittingly, or by their own survey data, which could be as simple as getting 500 average Joes to look at MP-10 standing next to Transform Element and Magic Square’s versions and asking the person to identify which one is made by the IP owner and which ones are the knock offs (your image @6:07 is a good example of that). Keep in mind that this is a “reasonable person” standard. Would the “average consumer” be confused? Not “Would hardcore collectors be confused” or even “would casual Transformers fans be confused?” All that being said, third parties mostly get away with this blatant IP infringement because of lax enforcement by China in cracking down on this. Lego has tried to get China to shutdown Lepin for YEARS and was only recently mildly successful in the Chinese courts, but their legal victory has had little practical effect in stemming the tide of Lego knockoff sets.
Thanks for the input. Mattel could not make their own Optimus Prime , name it TruckMan and sell it at Walmart. Right? Many collectors still think that would be legal but it is not. Thanks
Tydirium hanger Correct, Mattel couldn’t sell a “Truckman” that looked exactly like Optimus Prime in Walmart. However, the reasons they can’t do that are slightly different. Primarily because Mattel is incorporated in America, is a publicly traded company, and they would be opening themselves up to American legal liability (and possibly a shareholder’s lawsuit for negligently lowering their stock price). Also, Walmart probably wouldn’t even allow Mattel to sell “Truckman” in their store because it would probably be a violation of Walmart’s sales contracts with Hasbro.
I buy both, and it’s simply a time where such a thing is still possible. I believe eventually it will become more, and more difficult. As of now Hasbro China has begun a war against KO companies. I think it’s okay that this exists, although perhaps it will only be for a limited time. Third parties are getting so good it’s scary... If we the fans can see it I’m sure Takara, and Hasbro can too. Let’s collect while we can, and accept it all, let the multimillion dollar companies decide how to do business,and compete. Me as a fan, I only worry about collecting the good stuff.
The price point for the majority of these masterpiece transformers means that they are exclusive to those who can afford them, which is just wrong. Until pricing becomes more realistic, I will continue to buy KO as it is the only way I can afford to buy a series that I love.
I'm definitely in favor of third party. KO companies are more complicated. I think the oversized versions are better, for neither Hasbro or Takara will oversize their own stuff. Straight across KOs I'm not a big fan of, but they did help me get into MP collecting. I eventually bought official versions of all the figures I bought in KO form, but it was being able to buy the cheaper versions that really started my admiration and addiction to the MP scale. Thanks for the continuing conversation.
Well, some KOs and/or 3rd Parties are better in either robot or vehicle modes than what Hasbro or Takara has done to the TF character which begs the question as to "why is it so?"
Different designers, different engineers and different philosophies. Takara has often emulated the look of the vintage G1 figures rather than their cartoon show appearance (but we’ve seen that change in recent years).
Its really sad that rather than Hasbro and Takara hiring these 3rd Parties for their company, instead they just knock them down to the ground, I mean I understand why since its borderline illegal to use their IP, but some of the 3P figures are really high quality with a reasonable price, they could have them take charge of the Masterpiece line. This reminds me of Nintendo doing the same thing with parody games with with decent quality gameplay, but instead of appreciating the fans making it, they just decide to shut their game down.
Since i collect different toylines , i do not deal alot with third party stuff. I can see why a Transformers collector goes to third party in order to get specific characters in specific styles , when the official companies just refuse to make them in that quallity or style. The molds are different , the names are changed , so it is legal , even though essentialy they illegally use a licensed Character. I can not get behind full on KO though. In the lego world you had Lepin, which was a complete ripoff of lego , and even sold copies of the exact same sets cheaper. Those kind of companies should rightfully be prosecuted and eradicated. Third party Transformers is another thing entirely in my book. If they refuse to officially do it , as a collector , you don't even have the option to go official for certain characters. In that regard , i can see why those companies are hugely popular in the Niche Transformers Masterpiece market. They fill in holes in people's collections that Hasbro or Takara just won't fill in.
@@donaldjackson4456 Calling Someone A POSER; Isn't Really Name Calling! It's A CLEAR SIGN That Their Intrests Are NOT What They Want Others To Believe... It's MAINLY About Making Money & That's ALOT Of Pseudo Fans Thesedays!! BTW; Kitbashing is Combining Things To Create Another!
Legally there imitation products and counterfeits. Similar to imitation Cheetos, apple lighting connectors etc. There are counterfeits which try to pass as the original. What we call knock offs can be imitation products or counterfeits depending on if it has copyright symbols or text on the figure or package. 3rd party is really a term of endearment by fans for high quality imitation transformers.
The demand for MP 36 was high. A great Megatron was sorely needed. I was only collecting Autobots before he came. Since his ko release, I have gotten all the G1S1 Decepticon cast minus Shockwave and Reflector. I had a Skywarp from Walmart and MP5 because I had an MP1, but Takara got a bunch of my money because I could do most of the cast with the help of 3p. I think 3p helps move Takara products because they are usually good products.
One thing we can agree is that each one of these companies have got beautiful talent in making these models from the blocky days of the 80s we 80s babies had in tf toys growing up. The legs are no longer connected either more posable movement toys nowadays. Awesome talented toy companies all over this planet right now.
I personally like KO for their oversizing and down sizing. I now collect the regular Hasbro Transformers and not Masterpiece. I used to own Third party, but sold all mine in 2015. They were third party combiners, and thus I gladly replaced them with Combiner Wars figures. My only hold over was Make toys Green Giant, but now he can finally be sold, and replaced with Kubian scaled down Devastator. We waited four years since 2015 for Kubian Devastator. Now my next hope is the Dinobots. A KO company like Kubian doing POTP Dinobots in leader class sized Sludge, Slag, Snarl, Swoop and Grimlock in the new Siege Commander size like the new Jetfire/Skyfire. Since they are no longer being made by a Hasbro, Hasbro will not be losing money. While I would probably keep them in dinosaur mode, but would combine and compare with the 18 inch Combiner Wars Devastator and POTP Predaking for photo battle scenes.
Have to play this some more after dinner but what got me was the title of this video. I love KOs. I have a ton of KOs. Ya lots of them are oversize, feels like cheap plastic toys but I still love them. I can't express why. I love finding them at dollar stores or at cons cause its cute little treasure to bring home.
Wow!! My Gosh! Mike..You made the video! Your Da Mannn!!. You're so right! On every count! ..I also want them to continue and be successful forsure! Competition is Great! But collector's are always saying oh! KO is not Okay! But Third Party is!..So IP theft is okay? There logic is completely flawed! ..Yeah I agree, the price may go up on the official line because of the 3rd party. But the last thing you want is one company to monopolize an entire industry. Takara has 0 combiners! Competition drives innovation and ingenuity. I just hate when people bash KO'S and they're the same people who love Fanstoys who is stealing the Intellectual Property and doesn't have the copyrights. Which to me is insane! Like you see a guy saying if I draw Spiderman is my interpretation and is an original design! So it's okay! Getta Out Here! Like you said if that Happened here in the US to Marvel comics or Disney! They would be Shut Down Immediately!
I have no allegiance to any company, and have no respect for trade mark and copyright, so everything is ok to me! If you make a good quality toy, that is well priced and has the details I want, I will buy it, does not matter who made it.
I say both are ok when Hasbro doesnt make enough to go around. I got a round of the figures official MP figures I wanted. Now I want to get a second round to display in alt mode and tou can't find them. When it comes to getting a ko vs. SECOND HAND market (which hasbro makes zero on as well) I will go ko to stick to the scappers. I am now looking at 3rd party to get characters that have not got an official releaae. When/if Hasbro does one I will get that one too... but going forward I will pre order two...
When you have the option of a three hundred dollar+ figure or a similar $80 KO. Also the line between KO and 3rd party and odd that you brought up naming and packaging and KO does the same which mutes some of your justification for 3rd party since many KO's do the same. Also some KO's go as far as to fix the issues of some molds or make adjustments to.
MP10 is the most ive ever spent on a transformer back in the day when it was said it was never going to get a European release a small but awesome you tuber i was subbed to helped me get one . He had no idea who i was yet he bought 2 kept 1 and shipped the other to england just out of the kindness of his heart . Plus one he got was damaged , he kept that and shipped me the good 1 ! He doesnt review anymore so i feel safe to say his name T2RX6 . I always hoped his channel would grow but alas it didnt
As someone who got into MP collecting just last year KOs have been the only way to get some figures at a non eBay scalper price. When I got my KO Sideswipe officials were out of stock at legit shops and all the ones I saw on EBay were pushing $175-200. Seekers were even worse. Now that I've mostly caught up I plan to buy official and 3p/4p, especially if these companies like FT and XTB keep kicking Takaras ass in quality
Yeah. That's How I Feel As Well. Just Because Something Started Out By Licened Company, Sometimes They Forget Their Roots & Become Greedy Baced On Their Own Name! WE NEED TO KEEP Reminding Them, By ONLY Paying What We Can Afford, NOT What We Can Make Money On!!
what put me off from 3rd party figures,was the cost and over complicated transformation,but recently with trans bots version of the stunticons.they fit with my budget and the figure aren't over complicated.far as ko's go,if we talking straight up takara/Hasbro mp's then I agree. but company's like ,wejiuang,kbb,bb-7,jb,or black mamba.some are in scale with the officals,and some are improvement of the fig for a reasonable price.then I can get behind those ko's.
Reasonable my ass. They're all too expensive. Do you know how much these things cost to make? The markup is at least 10 times the cost of manufacturing. It's a bloody scam. Who cares how damn good they look, they aren't worth it. You need to stop encouraging them or else the figures will only continue to get more and more expensive. And I'm not talking about inflation, I'm talking about corporate greed.
Hoodlum is such a great name for Hot Rod 😂. I feel like “Turbo-Revvin’ Young Punk” would’ve worked too 😉. I hesitated on 3rd party, but I realize it’s the best way to get “definitive versions” of Transformers I want. NewAge FTW!
Personally I use a term 4th party of some KO companies like for example THF for not just doing a exact copy but also making some serious modifications of the figure like fixing the weak spots and making them sometimes better. There are also still some theories that KO companies are not actually KO but some QC rejects so personally I don't give a damn who accepts and who does not. I remember when the first 3rd party companies like IGear and Fansproject started and some fans call it a blasphemy. I always saw that ridiculous and funny.
I've got ko mp's in my cabinets next to real and 3rd party. Depends on cost and how it looks. And hopefully quality. There are some good ko's out there.
So Here's The Thing; Scott. Knock-Off's Were One-Tenth The Price Of Official & While The Quality Wasn't WONDERFUL, The Availability WAS!! You Could Just Goto A 5 & 10 Store & There it Was, Right On The Shelf... No Shipping Charge, No Making Weird Deals With Store Employees, No WAITING For Weeks To MONTHS OR EVEN MANY YEARS For It To Make A BRIEF Apparance On Shelves? Case in-Point With StarSaber; The Knock-Off Was $5 With Leo Sidekick & They Combined. THAT Was in 2005/06. VERY Unusual. OR Beast Wars & Beast Machines Knock-Offs Of Which The Smaller "Leader/Deluxe" Were $3-$5 & Were VERY Durable, Yet The Lifesize Ones Were $15 & VERY BREAKABLE? (THAT Was in 2001-2004). You Get What You Pay For!
I preface this by saying I obviously support Hasbro/Takara when they give me things I want, like I have been buying some of the Siege line because I really dig the designs of several of them. But a big thing for me personally with third party is being a fan of the IDW comics designs' in general which are obviously a licensed take on their IP. Hasbro/Takara HAVE given us several figures over the last few years that have drawn upon some of those designs but some of those just aren't as nice as what third parties give fans. Example, their IDW-inspired Generations Swerve is not only difficult to find now at a reasonable price for what you're getting, but it also doesn't come with a tray of drinks and the option of an add-on My First Blaster like the Make Toys' version that I have did. As you and others have said, Third party fills the gaps in collections that Hasbro/Takara don't want to fill and that's on them if you ask me.
All hail 3rd party. We all know Hastak will not give us 40% of the G1cast simply cause they don't want to take a chance on a figure that could flop, but 3rd party will push it. Secondly KO's are bad for Hastak, but I have to admit, if not for KO when I first start collecting, I would have way more gaps to fill, also KO does things in the Oversize market that I feel is much needed. Example the over sized Orion pax was a sight for sore eyes, it's not masterpeice but for a character who in other wise never would see the light of day, KO OS gave it to use and in my collection (MP), it is a beautiful piece to have. So there are a lot of negatives from KO, but they do have thier moments.
Maybe there aren't many out there, but I don't hear anyone talking about bootlegs. I've got a couple of masterpiece bootlegs. They are the official product, stolen from God knows where, then repackaged and sold at 1/4 of the price. Now that is straight up piracy.... And I love it. Something about buying illegally acquired goods from a pirate really pumps my nads. FTW.
Third-Party Companies gives us a Masterpiece style of Galvatron because Takara has not make a Masterpiece Galvatron yet. I hope that Takara's Masterpiece Galvatron will be announced in the future.
Unicron (if fully backed) will be my first official Hasbro transformer since the mid 80’s! 3rd party and a few KOs make the VAST majority of my collection. Just a shame the 3rd party scene seems to be slowing down
Third parties are unlicensed, which isn't right BUT at least they actually make their own molds, while ko's are just straight up stealing the original thing, which is kinda f'd up. I'm guilty of supporting ko's myself, but I do so only when the official product is out of reach. And even then, I would want to get the authentic piece, somewhere down the road. In case of third parties, however, I would probably mind less because, as I said they at least not steal the mold, for instance, I would love to get MP-44 but he is just out of reach and would probably just get TE-01, instead.
Third party is acceptable because while a figure is based on a character which is owned by someone else the the figures for the most have been designed and developed at the 3P companies own cost. Where as a KO is taking someone else’s design and reproducing usually to a lower (but not always) standard with none of the costs. It’s like the difference between using someone else’s essay as an example or inspiration for your own and photocopying it and sticking your name on it.
G1 transformer toys of takara put autobot sign and copy diaclone. Macross and micro change figure. So do u consider them knock off? That is why g1 jetfire got a rename and not sold in japan. Yes they did acquire the right. But changing sign and color sound like takara is doing ko. 😉
Billy Blas Hasbro bought the rights to Diaclone etc so they own those characters and designs in the western markets and Jetfire, Shockwave etc were produced under licence. So not the same thing at all. If you know of any of these figures that people have assumed are KOs but were actually produced under licence from Takara or Hasbro then please let me know because I’ll happily pay less for official products.
@@tydiriumhanger1320 Not sure how it's "wrong", tbh. Let's look at the whole "IP infringement" thing: you can't infringe on something that doesn't exist (such as figures of the DJD members from the IDW Transformers comics).
MP-44 for 449.99 USD it's huge they can tell whatever they want, they can blame third party companies, they can blame KO companies but that isn't something we can take lightly. That is just ridiculous I'm sure they are earning around 900% (maybe not that much but it feels like it and it's a lot for sure) on the production, design, engineering and distribution cost, that is the only reason I think that KO companies should keep on building KO figures as l long as they don't go crazy on the prices. Third party companies are easy to forgive because they are only copying the intellectual property but even that is bad, I rather have them creating original transforming figures. KO companies are hard to forgive and I only buy a KO when the original company goes crazy on the price point of the original figure. So for me it all depends on the amount of respect I'm given, that is exactly what I'm going to give back, if an official company is charging me with a crazy and unjustified amount of money I'm going to buy a cheaper but very good KO or a third party new figure with 10% of the money the original company is charging. To me that is what being fair is all about, respect me if you want to be respected.
As a collector and huge fan on a budget, im all for a cheaper alternative to the takara/Hasbro versions. There's no way I could afford the new megatron ( 450$ on Amazon) but the ko version was 155$ . Im extremely happy with it and I don't have to eat hamburger helper to compensate lol. When I saw the price tag on the new unicron, i hope there will be some 3rd party/ ko options for a more reasonable price.
I personally like ko and 3rd party but technically the are all ( 3rd party & ko) Ko from the perspective of using the likeness of characters you didn't get the license to. Just because takara/ Hasbro hasn't dropped say a galvatron doesn't mean it isn't ko because you are still using the likeness of intellectual property that you didn't get the license for inspite of not flat out using mp mole. The only difference is, the 3rd partys are putting there spin on it yet like 3rd party and ko, they're laws in there country is different. Regardless, I love em all( ko and 3rd party) as long as they are cartoon accurate and mp scale.
Third party is a form of KO. You wouldn't buy them if they were Original design. They're all Pretty much KO'S. I find it funny how people can justify buying 3rd party but not KOs. When is pretty much the same thing. They'll say the KOs hurt the industry..and am like So does 3P. Stealing money from the Original Design!🐮💩
@@Redstoneprime316 we'll is IP theft! Is theft of an intellectual property that doesn't belong to you. You don't have the Copyrights and therefore is a form of theft! Just like how Knock offs are! 😉hope that helps!🙃♥️
@@Redstoneprime316 creating a new figure of an Intectual Property you don't have ownership or have the copyrights to and make money from!... is called IP Theft. .."Homage"😆 lol..I like that!🤣
@@suprasport9118 Well, "homage" IS what the companies intended, is it not? Also, if replica car companies can get away with making "copies", so can third party TF companies.
I personally am not big on buying 3P or knockoffs but I will never judge anyone for it. If anything I'm grateful for them because in my assessment it forces the license holders of a product to up their game to remain relevant.
Seems like nowadays people don't remember Rabid Squirrel Productions. A short-lived third part company that actually got permission from Hasbro to sell their CyberFembots figures.
Old Koot, Transistor radio, Andras is supposedly the name of some obscure demon... Really, they can pull names from anywhere. Tyrant is a bit overused though. Not to mention that KOs of the early Masterpiece figures are still readily available for purchase. And sometimes at discounted prices from the original price.
GREAT DISCUSSION TYDIRIUM HANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D When you ask if any 3rd Party company has applied the same official Takara name to a toy, just look up Clonedroid Uberbots Greatshot, that toy has the exact same name as the official toy released by Takara. :) I joke that Clonedroid went to the edge of Copyright Infringement with their Transformers toy. :) Thank you for this amazing video, I just subscribed. :D
I wanted to replie at your first vid about KO, but didn’t realy know where to stand. After this vid i have a realy clear oppinion about this. To be blunt...all KO factories should be eliminated. That sound harsch, but let me explain. Masterpiece are the top of the line, like a Ferrari (for example). That kind of stuff isn’t for everybody. You pay big money, for a premium figure. And Yes, they are expensive, but you can save money, work overtime, etc. to buy it. It all comes down to the feeling you get when you get that kind of figure at home and Thats something like “Wow, i have something very exclusive in my hands”. I collect only MP Transformers and because of that i have to leave other things beside me. I work hard to get everything i want, but i can’t get it all, so i make choices and deal with it. MP-44 is expensive, but in my mind: its worth it, so i bought it. KO componies destroy that feeling, because i don’t want everybody to drive a Ferrari. 3rd parties are different, they are the other supercars like Lamborghini, or Bugatti. They all make supercars and Thats the same with Transformers. A tranforming figure isn’t invented by Takara, or Hasbro. So every company can make it as long as they are thrue to their selfes and keep their figure apart from the rest. The caracter might be the same, but the way they aproch it is very different. That, i can realy respect, because their figures aren’t copied, but build from scratch. Great vid (again) and your getting better with the humour ;-) Cheers
Yes I am getting the Mp44 official. And I will get KOs to compare. For that 10 months I will have an exclusive piece on my shelf and it will feel special. The KOs will kill that feeling for sure and I will probably like the KOs more. It is the sad truth but it is true. Thanks
Tydirium hanger Yep, your wright about that. But there was a sivielcourt about it in China. Lego sewd lepin for KO and all of the big directers behind Lepin got arrested, so Maybe the KO-market will be quit for some time ;-)
You don't want other people to have KOs because you won't feel special if the toy is affordable for everyone? I'm sorry you official only people are fucked up! I don't get any kind of personal validation from my toys, guess I must be broken.
Sometimes 3rd party makes figures better than Tomy. For a long time Hasbro/Takara Tomy produced some of the worse Springers out there where as Warbot Defender was a far better option for sometime. Takara/Tomy/Hasbro finially did Springer right with their Seige version.
the only KO's i care about getting are the original G1 KO's ....I'm sorry but i refuse to pay $100's of dollars or authentic G1 figures when the KO's look just as good if not better for a fraction of the price .....
the only company i know t otake the mp name was fucking toynami lol, trying to compete with takara, yet being blown away by yamato who had the official macross license, and produced amazing figures
The reason 3p doesn’t exist in Star Wars for Example is because that franchise floods the market with first party merchandise. Has/Tak starves it’s fans. This g1 MP line could’ve been finished 2-3 years ago, but they drag their feet and bring in new lines (Beast Wars) it’s left the door open for 3p to scratch the itch of the fandom.
3rd Party has turned into my mainline. I get Takara when something comes out but in the time they turn out one or two G1 style figures 3rd party gives us double to triple.
I'm not sure you quite answered the question posed by the video title - i.e. why 3P is OK but KO isn't. Or why KO should be viewed as OK. What is the point you're trying to make? Also, I'm not sure what the distinction you are making between IP infringement and creating a representation of the character. Can you explain what you see the difference is?
If Mattel made their version of Optimus Prime and sold it at Walmart as Truckman they would be breaking the law. They infringed on Hasbro's IP. KOs go a step further and copy an actual figure that was already made. 3p companies make their own designs but it is still illegal they just get away with it in China. Thanks
@@tydiriumhanger1320 You're not wrong, but you also haven't addressed my questions. You've just reiterated what you say in the video. What is the distinction you make between IP infringement and the making of the toy? Do you see any distinction? If not, why list them separately in your video? Do you think KOs are less OK than 3rd party?
@@bobagorof Yes I agree that KO is less OK than 3p but 3p is not legal either. My only fear is that one day these companies will get shut down and no more great figs. Just my fear. Thanks
My two cents worth is while a 3rd party is a representative of a character the figure is not a direct illegal copy of an official item but still close enough to know who it's supposed to be but a k.o. is a direct illegal copy usually made of shitty plastic and built down to a price.
@@arielazaria4680 perfect example why 3rd party exists...untill Porsche change their minds and give takara a license to use the alt modes we will NEVER see an official MP jazz or cliffjumper and that's where 3rd party companies save the day
did you see the mp 44 review, it looks dope, it looks a slightly shorter than MP10 based on the video i watch of them side by side, it was a chinese reviewer so i couldnt understand what was being said, the electronic voice sounds are in english, sound bites from the american cartoon
The Badcube captain Huffy was based on a GoBot character its not original either. To make the stronger case of 3P being different; then I would suggest they try different alt modes but for the same character. Then one can argue its inspired by but definitely unique. Although if one also has the same hasbro character mainline character figure in their collection, and just want something different for the different modes rather than buying duplicates of the same character then that's more understandable. Because one might not otherwise buy a duplicate since they do transform. If you're like me some transformations are too much work so having two different figures of the same character is more convenient in some case.
I came around to seeing it like this.. KO's have always been around.. always been, since been, since been... get it. there was a saying where i was growing up that stuck in my head...goes like this..down by law..it can apply to almost anything ..in short..like it or not.. KOs have been, will continue too and always be..down by law
KO's are ok for me and my limited budget. I only have a couple but will definitely buy more of the higher quality ones as I can afford. I try to stay away from the kos that are direct copies though. If the company improves the mold or does other changes I'm going to buy the better version everytime.
MAJORITY Of My Transformers ARE HASBRO/TAKARA/TOMY, But I Also Bought MOST Of Them Between 2006-2010. When The Prices Started Soaring & Availability Started Waining, Then I Went BACK To Buying Knock-Offs. I Just Recently Came Back For EARTHRISE/SIEGE/W4C, StudioSeries & Kingdom Lines! But $50 Was My LIMIT & It REALLY PISSED ME OFF That BW; Megatron (Kingdom) Was $15 MORE Then Dinobot; Who Was Bigger in BOT Mode! Oh & HotRod Being Called A Voyager When He Was CLEARLY A Deluxe Size Figure?!
3rd party company have there own design and look that they think people well like better. KO's are more base on brand names on a lower price point who are either using the CAD design or just a straight up copying the a figure itself. You as a buyer take a chance weather it's good or bad because figure s stiil may vary.
The only 3P I can recall keeping the original name was IDW centurion, the Hearts of Steel Bumblebee who get reconned to be some character named Centurion
Didn't Bobby already make the same topic a month or so ago? Also Hasbro like to keep Transformers close to their chest from the looks of it. They have no problem licensing other companies to make official products for them but when it comes to Transformers they barely give out licenses to other companies. Also I thought we already established that 3p only takes how they look like while making their own everything, pretty much just like how a doujinshi works in Japan. While KO is just lazy and just steals 100% of everything and releases it as their own. Despite that, some KO companies nowadays for some reason fix problems the original versions had and makes them of higher quality. So which is a KO now? Short answer it's still the KO, long answer...still the KO. No matter how much they fix the underlying problems of the legit, they just still stole everything 100%. 3P on the other hand just took notes.
BadCube screwed the pooch when they decided to push their passion projects instead of G1 the fandom has been screaming for. Too many holes in too many collections for MP collectors to stray away from collecting the MP bots they are missing. I hate that too, as BadCube was one of my favs.
hasbro should have bought over wei jiang.. or hasbro make a master class art division..premium tf model /figure.. high quality joints... like wei jiang.
Personally i dont think 3rd party is okay really . No matter how they try to justify it its still I.P theft . Not that im being holier than tho . Ive never bought 3rd P , but i would and will when i find the right 1 at the right price , like a MP scale G1 Jazz
Hey if it saves you money and comes at a better build quality over Takara.. go for it. Takara should be doing better. Im looking at you IT-02 Dinobot xD and Toysmage Beastwars Megatron
Basically the Inflation kills our purchasing power so in the future $100 buys WAAAYYY less than today. All governments do it to pay their way out of being extremely poor with fiscal responsibility. Inflation should not exist but is artificially created by governments. Time value of money is accepted because this fraud is accepted.
who with right mind would buy mp 44 when there is cheaper KO that is in better quality, paint is not chipping just ehen you take it out of the box. this things are happening in official version that cost over 500USD. with that price that figure shouldn't have any problems. same with mp 45 bumblebee. those toys doesn't deserve to be called masterpiece, cause you are spending A LOT OF MONEY on something that you will be affraid to take of the box. that's redicules.
“Legally I have to hate 3rd Party. I just have to. That’s my legal stance… … however…” Agent Simmons Sector 7. Okay… KO’s… we are not going there Ma’am, you and your Taco Bell doggy there.”
Takara lost the rights to Pokemon which is prolly the biggest toy, game, etc franchise in the world. I think that's why the MPs are so expensive nowadays. Theyre trying to make up the lost. Thats just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Could be part of it but they really should have given some explanation. Hasbro just came out saying they will raise the prices of their figures again soon...Sadly. Thanks
Great informative video, I don't personally buy KO but I will buy 3rd party figures, the reason being that 3rd are creating the figures from scratch like Takara and Hasbro do (working out how to get it to change from robot to alt mode, what clearance they need for parts, what joints are required where) while the KO is just purchasing an existing figure taking it apart and reproducing it. As far as I am aware Hasbro and Takara never copyrighted or trademarked the transformers characters appearances, only character names, faction symbols and names, logos so 3rd party are not doing anything illegal. Yes they are using character designed by someone else but not legally owned by the creator. 3rd Party also make it perfectly clear that they have no affiliation to the Takara or Hasbro.
![Transformers KO and 3rd Party Collection [Patreon Special Missions]](/img/n.gif)
MP-10 was waaaaay more affordable when it first released. Well the TRU version was. I got mine at barely over $100 shipped. $449+ for MP-44 is just too much.
Yes it was $100 originally but sold out fast and was being sold on the secondary market for over $300 a few months later. Makes me wonder how many they produced and how few Mp44s will get produced. Thanks
Kinda makes Unicron look like a deal at only $675!
We seem to forget that MP-10 was $299 on its first run.
@@RBrown803
If MP 44 was chockablock full of diecast like Mp1, I might look more highly upon it.
@@MurdermiesteR I don't necessarily need die cast unless its for better tolerance or material. The same goes for rubber tires. Whatever they did for MP-44 is the right way to do it.
3rd party gives us what Hasbro refuses to.
That is so true! 3p has job of filling the gaps and have done a great job! Thanks
Case in point: there's no MP Blaster. So I bought KFC Transistor. And while Titans Return Sixshot is great, it's nothing compared to FT-28 Hydra. And Fans Hobby Double Evil is the best Overlord figure on the planet, 3rd party or not
I know I'll probably get beat up for it, but MP-10 is perfect I don't like mp44
I don't mean to pick a fight but I think that is a naive way to state things. Hasbro is a company and while back in the day when the Transformers brand was new and they created character after character to extend their profits(GI Joe)..the landscape has changed. They can't just go off and create a new mold for any and all characters..even from the 84 cast..because of economics either they are Takara have determined prior. And 3rd party are IP infringing toys which probably can't be reigned in because of the logistics and cost of enforcement. I'm not anti 3rd party..I have several I eagerly pay for...but let's not pretend it's on the up and up. And lets not pretend Hasbro and Takara are somehow denying fans, look at Siege, that is all fanservice which they think can serve profits. But yet..they have to be selective with what characters they make molds for.
@@bpo1975 There WAS in
2005; IF You Mean Smaller
Metal Version. There Have
Actually Been 4 Official
Blaster Transforming Toys &
3 Fan Made Knock-Offs With
One Being Only A Prototype:
"TFA; Blaster" Baced On Soundwave With FOC; Blaster Head & Yellow Buzzsaw Guitar!
I will buy whoever has the best figure for the best price. Sometimes KOs improve on the figure. 3rd party companies do a much better job of listening to what fans want
I hear that 3p makers are largely collectors themselves and that passion does show! Thanks
I feel it perfectly ok to buy ko’s. All of third party is illegally making products. So if that’s ok then it’s totally fine to buy ko’s. I don’t feel the slightest bit bad about it. It’s better on my pocket book and a lot of times the figures are better made. And at the end of the day I care about me and my family. I don’t care about the companies whatsoever. If it’s cheaper and just as well made I’m all in.
I really feel that KOs should improve something like IT and THF do. Thanks
Exactly! So right! According to these people its okay to steal intellectual property but is not okay to knock off! Eventhough they are both the same thing. I am for KO's and third party. But I just don't get the people who think is okay to buy third party and not KO. They justify it by saying is an original design, but fail to realize that is from an Original design that they don't have the copyrights to produce. They say it's an "interpretation"..because they did not copy it. If I draw spiderman in my own way, eventhough you can obviously tell is Spiderman. Does that character become an Original Creation? The answer is Absolutely "No". I don't understand the reasoning. Some person on here was saying its okay because is a original design, if that robot was not from an "interpretation" ..he wouldn't have bought it. Which he Fail to realize.
@@2007suprasport
Yeah, the way I see it I'm just like Hasbro. I'm all about my money and what's best for my shareholders(family), so I inevitably buy KO over official. Sure I could spring for the official, but it's important(and cheaper)to support KO manufacturers. I draw no imaginary lines between 3P and KO either, so I'm happy to support both. If Has/Tak wants my money they should get competitive. Because brand loyalty is not a reasonable justification for spending extra money to me.
kyllerkill knockoff is an outright violation of intellectual property, a third party kind of throws a curveball depending on whether Hasbro copyrights the character’s look.
I agree. If I thought that it is okay to buy third party products but not knock-offs I would be a hypocrite. Besides, sometimes those KO's are improvements over official figures. Take my Megatron figure, for example; a knock-off figure with stiffer joints and more tightly crammed parts, leaving less visible panel lines in the gun mode. I could not stand it if I had to settle with an official figure when there is a better alternative available.
First party, third party, fourth party. Idc, everybody gets my money. I don’t discriminate against anyone
LOl I am there with ya! Thanks
That's right! Buy what you like.
Where the fuck is second party
@@hehaeugh8027
Second-Party is when a First-Party company brings in a Third-Party studio under their wing and licenses them to do their work for them!
Think of RareWare back when they worked with Nintendo on the SNES and N64!(and GameCube for the short time before they were bought by Microsoft)
I accept it all. More, the merrier. Not only the rich should have access to great transforming figures.
That is true. The Carbots were expensive and the KOs got me to enjoy what the carbots brought to the table. Thanks
Speaking as an attorney of 20 years with a good understanding of IP laws, I can say that changing the figure’s names has nothing to do with skirting Trademark and Copyright laws; it’s about establishing brand identity with the third party manufacturer. If someone searches for (and buys) “Sovereign” (Fans Toys Gavaltron), they know they want the FT version. If Fans Toys sold their figure under the “Galvatron” name, then that doesn’t help reinforce their brand name recognition, reputation and customer loyalty (which is what gets those pre-order dollars in the door”).
Violation of IP is all about “consumer confusion.” Would the average, reasonable consumer be confused by the infringing product? Would they think the figure they’re buying was produced by the legal owner of the IP? Changing the name is only a very small part of that. Look at the “Lepin” company that constantly KO’s Lego products. Sometimes they change the name of the set, but only slightly, and they copy the fonts and packaging design.
In attempting to establish actual “consumer confusion,” the legal owner will usually prove this by showing actual customer complaints by people who bought a knock off unwittingly, or by their own survey data, which could be as simple as getting 500 average Joes to look at MP-10 standing next to Transform Element and Magic Square’s versions and asking the person to identify which one is made by the IP owner and which ones are the knock offs (your image @6:07 is a good example of that).
Keep in mind that this is a “reasonable person” standard. Would the “average consumer” be confused? Not “Would hardcore collectors be confused” or even “would casual Transformers fans be confused?”
All that being said, third parties mostly get away with this blatant IP infringement because of lax enforcement by China in cracking down on this. Lego has tried to get China to shutdown Lepin for YEARS and was only recently mildly successful in the Chinese courts, but their legal victory has had little practical effect in stemming the tide of Lego knockoff sets.
Thanks for the input. Mattel could not make their own Optimus Prime , name it TruckMan and sell it at Walmart. Right? Many collectors still think that would be legal but it is not. Thanks
Tydirium hanger Correct, Mattel couldn’t sell a “Truckman” that looked exactly like Optimus Prime in Walmart. However, the reasons they can’t do that are slightly different. Primarily because Mattel is incorporated in America, is a publicly traded company, and they would be opening themselves up to American legal liability (and possibly a shareholder’s lawsuit for negligently lowering their stock price). Also, Walmart probably wouldn’t even allow Mattel to sell “Truckman” in their store because it would probably be a violation of Walmart’s sales contracts with Hasbro.
I buy both, and it’s simply a time where such a thing is still possible. I believe eventually it will become more, and more difficult. As of now Hasbro China has begun a war against KO companies. I think it’s okay that this exists, although perhaps it will only be for a limited time. Third parties are getting so good it’s scary... If we the fans can see it I’m sure Takara, and Hasbro can too. Let’s collect while we can, and accept it all, let the multimillion dollar companies decide how to do business,and compete. Me as a fan, I only worry about collecting the good stuff.
So true! I enjoy this hobby and Collect MP, KOs and 3p. Thanks
Tydirium hanger Absolutely!
The price point for the majority of these masterpiece transformers means that they are exclusive to those who can afford them, which is just wrong. Until pricing becomes more realistic, I will continue to buy KO as it is the only way I can afford to buy a series that I love.
I'm definitely in favor of third party. KO companies are more complicated. I think the oversized versions are better, for neither Hasbro or Takara will oversize their own stuff. Straight across KOs I'm not a big fan of, but they did help me get into MP collecting. I eventually bought official versions of all the figures I bought in KO form, but it was being able to buy the cheaper versions that really started my admiration and addiction to the MP scale. Thanks for the continuing conversation.
Yes The WJ OS figures are all great! Black Mamba is doing the Siege line soon and I will be in on that!
Legos have a lot of KOs too
Well, some KOs and/or 3rd Parties are better in either robot or vehicle modes than what Hasbro or Takara has done to the TF character which begs the question as to "why is it so?"
They have to try harder to get the sales especially smaller 3p companies have to prove themselves. Thanks
Different designers, different engineers and different philosophies. Takara has often emulated the look of the vintage G1 figures rather than their cartoon show appearance (but we’ve seen that change in recent years).
This video and explanation was exactly what I was teaching for. Thank you. Subscribed.
Its really sad that rather than Hasbro and Takara hiring these 3rd Parties for their company, instead they just knock them down to the ground, I mean I understand why since its borderline illegal to use their IP, but some of the 3P figures are really high quality with a reasonable price, they could have them take charge of the Masterpiece line. This reminds me of Nintendo doing the same thing with parody games with with decent quality gameplay, but instead of appreciating the fans making it, they just decide to shut their game down.
Since i collect different toylines , i do not deal alot with third party stuff. I can see why a Transformers collector goes to third party in order to get specific characters in specific styles , when the official companies just refuse to make them in that quallity or style. The molds are different , the names are changed , so it is legal , even though essentialy they illegally use a licensed Character. I can not get behind full on KO though. In the lego world you had Lepin, which was a complete ripoff of lego , and even sold copies of the exact same sets cheaper. Those kind of companies should rightfully be prosecuted and eradicated. Third party Transformers is another thing entirely in my book. If they refuse to officially do it , as a collector , you don't even have the option to go official for certain characters. In that regard , i can see why those companies are hugely popular in the Niche Transformers Masterpiece market. They fill in holes in people's collections that Hasbro or Takara just won't fill in.
Yes the 3p do fill a void that is left from Takara not producing the obscure figures. Thanks
It's one thing to buy a copy-its another thing to buy an interpretation
This guy gets it.
3rd party is ko. If its not approved by Hasbro its a ko period
@@donaldjackson4456
Who The Hell Cares IF
They Approve Or NOT.
Have YOU EVER Kitbashed?
If NOT; Then YOU Are A
Money Making POSER!!
@@CarlyCatharsis 😒 really? Name calling? Kinda Lame. Js
@@donaldjackson4456
Calling Someone A POSER;
Isn't Really Name Calling!
It's A CLEAR SIGN That
Their Intrests Are NOT
What They Want Others
To Believe... It's MAINLY
About Making Money &
That's ALOT Of Pseudo
Fans Thesedays!! BTW;
Kitbashing is Combining
Things To Create Another!
Legally there imitation products and counterfeits. Similar to imitation Cheetos, apple lighting connectors etc. There are counterfeits which try to pass as the original. What we call knock offs can be imitation products or counterfeits depending on if it has copyright symbols or text on the figure or package. 3rd party is really a term of endearment by fans for high quality imitation transformers.
The demand for MP 36 was high. A great Megatron was sorely needed. I was only collecting Autobots before he came. Since his ko release, I have gotten all the G1S1 Decepticon cast minus Shockwave and Reflector. I had a Skywarp from Walmart and MP5 because I had an MP1, but Takara got a bunch of my money because I could do most of the cast with the help of 3p. I think 3p helps move Takara products because they are usually good products.
Yes Takara's MP line would not have the interest it does now if 3p did not keep it going between the 2 years of no Takara releases. Thanks
One thing we can agree is that each one of these companies have got beautiful talent in making these models from the blocky days of the 80s we 80s babies had in tf toys growing up. The legs are no longer connected either more posable movement toys nowadays. Awesome talented toy companies all over this planet right now.
This is a great time to collect for sure! The limits of what can be done with these figures seems to get pushed constantly. Thanks
I personally like KO for their oversizing and down sizing. I now collect the regular Hasbro Transformers and not Masterpiece. I used to own Third party, but sold all mine in 2015. They were third party combiners, and thus I gladly replaced them with Combiner Wars figures. My only hold over was Make toys Green Giant, but now he can finally be sold, and replaced with Kubian scaled down Devastator. We waited four years since 2015 for Kubian Devastator. Now my next hope is the Dinobots. A KO company like Kubian doing POTP Dinobots in leader class sized Sludge, Slag, Snarl, Swoop and Grimlock in the new Siege Commander size like the new Jetfire/Skyfire. Since they are no longer being made by a Hasbro, Hasbro will not be losing money. While I would probably keep them in dinosaur mode, but would combine and compare with the 18 inch Combiner Wars Devastator and POTP Predaking for photo battle scenes.
Have to play this some more after dinner but what got me was the title of this video. I love KOs. I have a ton of KOs. Ya lots of them are oversize, feels like cheap plastic toys but I still love them. I can't express why. I love finding them at dollar stores or at cons cause its cute little treasure to bring home.
EXACTLY... 💯%
SAME THING HERE!!
Wow!! My Gosh! Mike..You made the video! Your Da Mannn!!. You're so right! On every count! ..I also want them to continue and be successful forsure! Competition is Great! But collector's are always saying oh! KO is not Okay! But Third Party is!..So IP theft is okay? There logic is completely flawed! ..Yeah I agree, the price may go up on the official line because of the 3rd party. But the last thing you want is one company to monopolize an entire industry. Takara has 0 combiners! Competition drives innovation and ingenuity. I just hate when people bash KO'S and they're the same people who love Fanstoys who is stealing the Intellectual Property and doesn't have the copyrights. Which to me is insane!
Like you see a guy saying if I draw Spiderman is my interpretation and is an original design! So it's okay! Getta Out Here! Like you said if that Happened here in the US to Marvel comics or Disney! They would be Shut Down Immediately!
Yep there are many Gray areas in this hobby and I accept that. Thanks
i like how Ko fixes things and make them better and the price Beats 3rd party
I have no allegiance to any company, and have no respect for trade mark and copyright, so everything is ok to me! If you make a good quality toy, that is well priced and has the details I want, I will buy it, does not matter who made it.
4th party exists too. Same molds as the official, but box art and name of characters are different. Infinite Transformation IT-01 is one example.
I say both are ok when Hasbro doesnt make enough to go around. I got a round of the figures official MP figures I wanted. Now I want to get a second round to display in alt mode and tou can't find them. When it comes to getting a ko vs. SECOND HAND market (which hasbro makes zero on as well) I will go ko to stick to the scappers. I am now looking at 3rd party to get characters that have not got an official releaae. When/if Hasbro does one I will get that one too... but going forward I will pre order two...
When you have the option of a three hundred dollar+ figure or a similar $80 KO. Also the line between KO and 3rd party and odd that you brought up naming and packaging and KO does the same which mutes some of your justification for 3rd party since many KO's do the same. Also some KO's go as far as to fix the issues of some molds or make adjustments to.
MP10 is the most ive ever spent on a transformer back in the day when it was said it was never going to get a European release a small but awesome you tuber i was subbed to helped me get one . He had no idea who i was yet he bought 2 kept 1 and shipped the other to england just out of the kindness of his heart . Plus one he got was damaged , he kept that and shipped me the good 1 ! He doesnt review anymore so i feel safe to say his name T2RX6 . I always hoped his channel would grow but alas it didnt
As someone who got into MP collecting just last year KOs have been the only way to get some figures at a non eBay scalper price. When I got my KO Sideswipe officials were out of stock at legit shops and all the ones I saw on EBay were pushing $175-200. Seekers were even worse. Now that I've mostly caught up I plan to buy official and 3p/4p, especially if these companies like FT and XTB keep kicking Takaras ass in quality
Kos do help the newer collectors the most. The prices get lower and quality has stepped up on those. Thanks
Yeah. That's How I
Feel As Well. Just Because
Something Started Out
By Licened Company,
Sometimes They Forget
Their Roots & Become
Greedy Baced On Their
Own Name! WE NEED TO
KEEP Reminding Them,
By ONLY Paying What We
Can Afford, NOT What We
Can Make Money On!!
what put me off from 3rd party figures,was the cost and over complicated transformation,but recently with trans bots version of the stunticons.they fit with my budget and the figure aren't over complicated.far as ko's go,if we talking straight up takara/Hasbro mp's then I agree. but company's like ,wejiuang,kbb,bb-7,jb,or black mamba.some are in scale with the officals,and some are improvement of the fig for a reasonable price.then I can get behind those ko's.
I do like it when the KO companies make improvements. Wonder what they will do with MP44
Reasonable my ass. They're all too expensive. Do you know how much these things cost to make? The markup is at least 10 times the cost of manufacturing. It's a bloody scam. Who cares how damn good they look, they aren't worth it. You need to stop encouraging them or else the figures will only continue to get more and more expensive.
And I'm not talking about inflation, I'm talking about corporate greed.
Hoodlum is such a great name for Hot Rod 😂. I feel like “Turbo-Revvin’ Young Punk” would’ve worked too 😉.
I hesitated on 3rd party, but I realize it’s the best way to get “definitive versions” of Transformers I want. NewAge FTW!
Unrelated, I'd love some 3P companies to tackle megazords and other mecha
I am surprised they have not already! Thanks
@@tydiriumhanger1320 i don't know if there is a market for That, also do you remember what happened when Weijiang attempted to make an ironman ko?
Looks like I just found out the difference between a KO and a 3rd party. Thanks!
I have no problem somebody buying a 6 year old ko masterpiece carbot.
Personally I use a term 4th party of some KO companies like for example THF for not just doing a exact copy but also making some serious modifications of the figure like fixing the weak spots and making them sometimes better. There are also still some theories that KO companies are not actually KO but some QC rejects so personally I don't give a damn who accepts and who does not. I remember when the first 3rd party companies like IGear and Fansproject started and some fans call it a blasphemy. I always saw that ridiculous and funny.
I've got ko mp's in my cabinets next to real and 3rd party. Depends on cost and how it looks. And hopefully quality. There are some good ko's out there.
Most Kos are so good I can not tell and I have been buying them for years now. My MP 36 and 39 are KO and I am fine! Thanks
So Here's The Thing; Scott.
Knock-Off's Were One-Tenth
The Price Of Official & While
The Quality Wasn't WONDERFUL,
The Availability WAS!! You Could
Just Goto A 5 & 10 Store & There
it Was, Right On The Shelf... No
Shipping Charge, No Making
Weird Deals With Store Employees, No WAITING For
Weeks To MONTHS OR EVEN
MANY YEARS For It To Make
A BRIEF Apparance On Shelves?
Case in-Point With StarSaber;
The Knock-Off Was $5 With
Leo Sidekick & They Combined.
THAT Was in 2005/06. VERY
Unusual. OR Beast Wars & Beast Machines Knock-Offs Of Which
The Smaller "Leader/Deluxe"
Were $3-$5 & Were VERY Durable, Yet The Lifesize Ones
Were $15 & VERY BREAKABLE?
(THAT Was in 2001-2004).
You Get What You Pay For!
I preface this by saying I obviously support Hasbro/Takara when they give me things I want, like I have been buying some of the Siege line because I really dig the designs of several of them. But a big thing for me personally with third party is being a fan of the IDW comics designs' in general which are obviously a licensed take on their IP. Hasbro/Takara HAVE given us several figures over the last few years that have drawn upon some of those designs but some of those just aren't as nice as what third parties give fans. Example, their IDW-inspired Generations Swerve is not only difficult to find now at a reasonable price for what you're getting, but it also doesn't come with a tray of drinks and the option of an add-on My First Blaster like the Make Toys' version that I have did. As you and others have said, Third party fills the gaps in collections that Hasbro/Takara don't want to fill and that's on them if you ask me.
It's a fine line between third party and KO's.
Man I love your content, thank you I'm fine with kos and 3rd party just wish ko quality was better
All hail 3rd party. We all know Hastak will not give us 40% of the G1cast simply cause they don't want to take a chance on a figure that could flop, but 3rd party will push it. Secondly KO's are bad for Hastak, but I have to admit, if not for KO when I first start collecting, I would have way more gaps to fill, also KO does things in the Oversize market that I feel is much needed. Example the over sized Orion pax was a sight for sore eyes, it's not masterpeice but for a character who in other wise never would see the light of day, KO OS gave it to use and in my collection (MP), it is a beautiful piece to have. So there are a lot of negatives from KO, but they do have thier moments.
I am there with you on the KOs. I would not be this deep in the MP collecting if not for those Kos to dip my toes. Thanks
Maybe there aren't many out there, but I don't hear anyone talking about bootlegs. I've got a couple of masterpiece bootlegs. They are the official product, stolen from God knows where, then repackaged and sold at 1/4 of the price. Now that is straight up piracy.... And I love it.
Something about buying illegally acquired goods from a pirate really pumps my nads. FTW.
Third-Party Companies gives us a Masterpiece style of Galvatron because Takara has not make a Masterpiece Galvatron yet. I hope that Takara's Masterpiece Galvatron will be announced in the future.
Unicron (if fully backed) will be my first official Hasbro transformer since the mid 80’s! 3rd party and a few KOs make the VAST majority of my collection. Just a shame the 3rd party scene seems to be slowing down
Well Fanstoys just put out the price of their upcoming minibots for $90. Wonder if they are on the way soon! Thanks
Third parties are unlicensed, which isn't right BUT at least they actually make their own molds, while ko's are just straight up stealing the original thing, which is kinda f'd up. I'm guilty of supporting ko's myself, but I do so only when the official product is out of reach. And even then, I would want to get the authentic piece, somewhere down the road. In case of third parties, however, I would probably mind less because, as I said they at least not steal the mold, for instance, I would love to get MP-44 but he is just out of reach and would probably just get TE-01, instead.
Well KOs got me into buying including mp36. I am getting Mp44 official through Amazon JP but the price is still over $300. Thanks
Third party is acceptable because while a figure is based on a character which is owned by someone else the the figures for the most have been designed and developed at the 3P companies own cost. Where as a KO is taking someone else’s design and reproducing usually to a lower (but not always) standard with none of the costs.
It’s like the difference between using someone else’s essay as an example or inspiration for your own and photocopying it and sticking your name on it.
G1 transformer toys of takara put autobot sign and copy diaclone. Macross and micro change figure. So do u consider them knock off? That is why g1 jetfire got a rename and not sold in japan. Yes they did acquire the right. But changing sign and color sound like takara is doing ko. 😉
Billy Blas Hasbro bought the rights to Diaclone etc so they own those characters and designs in the western markets and Jetfire, Shockwave etc were produced under licence. So not the same thing at all.
If you know of any of these figures that people have assumed are KOs but were actually produced under licence from Takara or Hasbro then please let me know because I’ll happily pay less for official products.
Yes but what 3p does is still wrong by our standards here in the US. Just happy laws are looser in China.
@@tydiriumhanger1320 Not sure how it's "wrong", tbh. Let's look at the whole "IP infringement" thing: you can't infringe on something that doesn't exist (such as figures of the DJD members from the IDW Transformers comics).
MP-44 for 449.99 USD it's huge they can tell whatever they want, they can blame third party companies, they can blame KO companies but that isn't something we can take lightly. That is just ridiculous I'm sure they are earning around 900% (maybe not that much but it feels like it and it's a lot for sure) on the production, design, engineering and distribution cost, that is the only reason I think that KO companies should keep on building KO figures as l long as they don't go crazy on the prices. Third party companies are easy to forgive because they are only copying the intellectual property but even that is bad, I rather have them creating original transforming figures. KO companies are hard to forgive and I only buy a KO when the original company goes crazy on the price point of the original figure. So for me it all depends on the amount of respect I'm given, that is exactly what I'm going to give back, if an official company is charging me with a crazy and unjustified amount of money I'm going to buy a cheaper but very good KO or a third party new figure with 10% of the money the original company is charging. To me that is what being fair is all about, respect me if you want to be respected.
I do find it odd that we are seeing 30% to 50% increases across the board for MP figures coming from Takara without even an explanation. Thanks
As a collector and huge fan on a budget, im all for a cheaper alternative to the takara/Hasbro versions. There's no way I could afford the new megatron ( 450$ on Amazon) but the ko version was 155$ . Im extremely happy with it and I don't have to eat hamburger helper to compensate lol. When I saw the price tag on the new unicron, i hope there will be some 3rd party/ ko options for a more reasonable price.
I personally like ko and 3rd party but technically the are all ( 3rd party & ko) Ko from the perspective of using the likeness of characters you didn't get the license to. Just because takara/ Hasbro hasn't dropped say a galvatron doesn't mean it isn't ko because you are still using the likeness of intellectual property that you didn't get the license for inspite of not flat out using mp mole. The only difference is, the 3rd partys are putting there spin on it yet like 3rd party and ko, they're laws in there country is different. Regardless, I love em all( ko and 3rd party) as long as they are cartoon accurate and mp scale.
Third party is a form of KO. You wouldn't buy them if they were Original design. They're all Pretty much KO'S. I find it funny how people can justify buying 3rd party but not KOs. When is pretty much the same thing. They'll say the KOs hurt the industry..and am like So does 3P. Stealing money from the Original Design!🐮💩
How is it KO when they aren't copying an existing product?
@@Redstoneprime316 we'll is IP theft! Is theft of an intellectual property that doesn't belong to you. You don't have the Copyrights and therefore is a form of theft! Just like how Knock offs are! 😉hope that helps!🙃♥️
@@suprasport9118 a KO would be creating an exact copy of, say MP10 Optimus Prime, not creating a whole new figure who's a direct homage to him.
@@Redstoneprime316 creating a new figure of an Intectual Property you don't have ownership or have the copyrights to and make money from!... is called IP Theft. .."Homage"😆 lol..I like that!🤣
@@suprasport9118 Well, "homage" IS what the companies intended, is it not? Also, if replica car companies can get away with making "copies", so can third party TF companies.
I personally am not big on buying 3P or knockoffs but I will never judge anyone for it. If anything I'm grateful for them because in my assessment it forces the license holders of a product to up their game to remain relevant.
Yes they do push each other to make better products! Thanks
Nice topic and video Mike! thx
Glad you enjoyed! These Third party figures make this collecting so interesting! Thanks
Seems like nowadays people don't remember Rabid Squirrel Productions. A short-lived third part company that actually got permission from Hasbro to sell their CyberFembots figures.
Actually i get excited for the ko, it even knocks the mp takara prices down, and if the price is toooo high i,ll go for the ko version it fits me!
Well I do feel like KO mp44 will have one main aspect collectors will like more than the official. KO will probably come in robot mode..LOL
Old Koot, Transistor radio, Andras is supposedly the name of some obscure demon... Really, they can pull names from anywhere. Tyrant is a bit overused though.
Not to mention that KOs of the early Masterpiece figures are still readily available for purchase. And sometimes at discounted prices from the original price.
I think they do make too large of runs on some KOs. Love those names! Thanks
GREAT DISCUSSION TYDIRIUM HANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D When you ask if any 3rd Party company has applied the same official Takara name to a toy, just look up Clonedroid Uberbots Greatshot, that toy has the exact same name as the official toy released by Takara. :) I joke that Clonedroid went to the edge of Copyright Infringement with their Transformers toy. :) Thank you for this amazing video, I just subscribed. :D
Glad you enjoyed! Thanks for the info.
@@tydiriumhanger1320 Welcome. :D
I buy KOs and third parties, there I said it!
KOs were my gateway drug to buying all these 3ps! Thanks
I wanted to replie at your first vid about KO, but didn’t realy know where to stand. After this vid i have a realy clear oppinion about this. To be blunt...all KO factories should be eliminated. That sound harsch, but let me explain. Masterpiece are the top of the line, like a Ferrari (for example). That kind of stuff isn’t for everybody. You pay big money, for a premium figure. And Yes, they are expensive, but you can save money, work overtime, etc. to buy it. It all comes down to the feeling you get when you get that kind of figure at home and Thats something like “Wow, i have something very exclusive in my hands”. I collect only MP Transformers and because of that i have to leave other things beside me. I work hard to get everything i want, but i can’t get it all, so i make choices and deal with it. MP-44 is expensive, but in my mind: its worth it, so i bought it. KO componies destroy that feeling, because i don’t want everybody to drive a Ferrari. 3rd parties are different, they are the other supercars like Lamborghini, or Bugatti. They all make supercars and Thats the same with Transformers. A tranforming figure isn’t invented by Takara, or Hasbro. So every company can make it as long as they are thrue to their selfes and keep their figure apart from the rest. The caracter might be the same, but the way they aproch it is very different. That, i can realy respect, because their figures aren’t copied, but build from scratch.
Great vid (again) and your getting better with the humour ;-)
Cheers
Yes I am getting the Mp44 official. And I will get KOs to compare. For that 10 months I will have an exclusive piece on my shelf and it will feel special. The KOs will kill that feeling for sure and I will probably like the KOs more. It is the sad truth but it is true. Thanks
Tydirium hanger Yep, your wright about that. But there was a sivielcourt about it in China. Lego sewd lepin for KO and all of the big directers behind Lepin got arrested, so Maybe the KO-market will be quit for some time ;-)
You don't want other people to have KOs because you won't feel special if the toy is affordable for everyone? I'm sorry you official only people are fucked up! I don't get any kind of personal validation from my toys, guess I must be broken.
Sometimes 3rd party makes figures better than Tomy. For a long time Hasbro/Takara Tomy produced some of the worse Springers out there where as Warbot Defender was a far better option for sometime. Takara/Tomy/Hasbro finially did Springer right with their Seige version.
Third party did make Hasbro and Takara up their game. Thanks
the only KO's i care about getting are the original G1 KO's ....I'm sorry but i refuse to pay $100's of dollars or authentic G1 figures when the KO's look just as good if not better for a fraction of the price .....
the only company i know t otake the mp name was fucking toynami lol, trying to compete with takara, yet being blown away by yamato who had the official macross license, and produced amazing figures
So is it safe to say that this type of copyright-infringement cannot be contested legally for "I.P." rights...?!?!
The reason 3p doesn’t exist in Star Wars for Example is because that franchise floods the market with first party merchandise. Has/Tak starves it’s fans. This g1 MP line could’ve been finished 2-3 years ago, but they drag their feet and bring in new lines (Beast Wars) it’s left the door open for 3p to scratch the itch of the fandom.
That is so true! Takara could have completed this line but chose not to take risks. I feel Beast wars is riskier than G1 though. Thanks
3rd Party has turned into my mainline. I get Takara when something comes out but in the time they turn out one or two G1 style figures 3rd party gives us double to triple.
That is so true! Fanstoys and XTB crank out the most of those! Thanks
I'm not sure you quite answered the question posed by the video title - i.e. why 3P is OK but KO isn't. Or why KO should be viewed as OK. What is the point you're trying to make?
Also, I'm not sure what the distinction you are making between IP infringement and creating a representation of the character. Can you explain what you see the difference is?
If Mattel made their version of Optimus Prime and sold it at Walmart as Truckman they would be breaking the law. They infringed on Hasbro's IP. KOs go a step further and copy an actual figure that was already made. 3p companies make their own designs but it is still illegal they just get away with it in China. Thanks
@@tydiriumhanger1320 You're not wrong, but you also haven't addressed my questions. You've just reiterated what you say in the video.
What is the distinction you make between IP infringement and the making of the toy? Do you see any distinction? If not, why list them separately in your video?
Do you think KOs are less OK than 3rd party?
@@bobagorof Yes I agree that KO is less OK than 3p but 3p is not legal either. My only fear is that one day these companies will get shut down and no more great figs. Just my fear. Thanks
My two cents worth is while a 3rd party is a representative of a character the figure is not a direct illegal copy of an official item but still close enough to know who it's supposed to be but a k.o. is a direct illegal copy usually made of shitty plastic and built down to a price.
nicely put.
@@arielazaria4680 thank you.👍
@@arielazaria4680 perfect example why 3rd party exists...untill Porsche change their minds and give takara a license to use the alt modes we will NEVER see an official MP jazz or cliffjumper and that's where 3rd party companies save the day
It is true but Lets see if Mattel puts out an MP Optimus Prime and Calls it Truck man. Would not fly.
@@monkeybubblessupperdude1016 Yes 3p does serve a purpose and I love their products. I also Love Kos. Thanks
did you see the mp 44 review, it looks dope, it looks a slightly shorter than MP10 based on the video i watch of them side by side, it was a chinese reviewer so i couldnt understand what was being said, the electronic voice sounds are in english, sound bites from the american cartoon
Can not wait to get my hands on it! Thanks
good chat, keep up the good work
The Badcube captain Huffy was based on a GoBot character its not original either. To make the stronger case of 3P being different; then I would suggest they try different alt modes but for the same character. Then one can argue its inspired by but definitely unique. Although if one also has the same hasbro character mainline character figure in their collection, and just want something different for the different modes rather than buying duplicates of the same character then that's more understandable. Because one might not otherwise buy a duplicate since they do transform. If you're like me some transformations are too much work so having two different figures of the same character is more convenient in some case.
That is a great point and yes many do buy multiples to display in both modes. Thanks
I came around to seeing it like this.. KO's have always been around.. always been, since been, since been... get it.
there was a saying where i was growing up that stuck in my head...goes like this..down by law..it can apply to almost anything ..in short..like it or not.. KOs have been, will continue too and always be..down by law
The KO figures are a great way to get into this hobby. If a collector enjoys the KOs the officials should Blow them away right? Thanks
Unless Hasbro tells them it’s OK to make 3rd parties but Hasbro gets a percent on what they make.
Hasbro could sell a license to make them but that would drive the price up. Thanks
Third party and Fourth party are both okay.
KO's are ok for me and my limited budget. I only have a couple but will definitely buy more of the higher quality ones as I can afford. I try to stay away from the kos that are direct copies though. If the company improves the mold or does other changes I'm going to buy the better version everytime.
I am only recently onboard with the likes of Mp44 and the newer MPs. I still feel the pricing is outrageous and that is fueling the KO market. Thanks
MAJORITY Of My Transformers
ARE HASBRO/TAKARA/TOMY,
But I Also Bought MOST Of
Them Between 2006-2010.
When The Prices Started
Soaring & Availability Started
Waining, Then I Went BACK
To Buying Knock-Offs. I
Just Recently Came Back
For EARTHRISE/SIEGE/W4C,
StudioSeries & Kingdom Lines!
But $50 Was My LIMIT & It
REALLY PISSED ME OFF
That BW; Megatron (Kingdom)
Was $15 MORE Then Dinobot;
Who Was Bigger in BOT Mode!
Oh & HotRod Being Called A
Voyager When He Was CLEARLY
A Deluxe Size Figure?!
3rd party company have there own design and look that they think people well like better. KO's are more base on brand names on a lower price point who are either using the CAD design or just a straight up copying the a figure itself. You as a buyer take a chance weather it's good or bad because figure s stiil may vary.
Yes it is always a crapshoot when you buy a KO. Thanks
The only 3P I can recall keeping the original name was IDW centurion, the Hearts of Steel Bumblebee who get reconned to be some character named Centurion
That One may be correct but I did not catch that one myself. Thanks
Me, who just bought a KO Masterpiece Megatron 👁️👄👁️
Didn't Bobby already make the same topic a month or so ago? Also Hasbro like to keep Transformers close to their chest from the looks of it. They have no problem licensing other companies to make official products for them but when it comes to Transformers they barely give out licenses to other companies.
Also I thought we already established that 3p only takes how they look like while making their own everything, pretty much just like how a doujinshi works in Japan. While KO is just lazy and just steals 100% of everything and releases it as their own. Despite that, some KO companies nowadays for some reason fix problems the original versions had and makes them of higher quality. So which is a KO now? Short answer it's still the KO, long answer...still the KO. No matter how much they fix the underlying problems of the legit, they just still stole everything 100%. 3P on the other hand just took notes.
The fixes aren't even their own. They get some customizer to tweak the product and copy that
Yep but this topic seemed to come up in my comments so I figured I would talk about it. Thanks
On the toys I agree. Wish they cared about the media half as much as their toys.
i have ko !! and i am happy. !!!
Ko may have gotten you into MP. Thanks
Thank you for providing the clarification
Awesome video I've been waiting for someone to cover this. Is there an international copyright law I mean they have it with apple and with Lego l.
BadCube screwed the pooch when they decided to push their passion projects instead of G1 the fandom has been screaming for. Too many holes in too many collections for MP collectors to stray away from collecting the MP bots they are missing. I hate that too, as BadCube was one of my favs.
You know what sucks.
I've been waiting 4 months for that Hot Soldiers Optimus Prime from ebay.
Hopefully it comes in September
If you ordered it and have not received it yet you may need to open a case.
@@tydiriumhanger1320 thank you for the tip 👍👍😀😀
hasbro should have bought over wei jiang..
or hasbro make a master class art division..premium tf model /figure..
high quality joints... like wei jiang.
Wow super cool
Glad you enjoyed! Thanks
Personally i dont think 3rd party is okay really . No matter how they try to justify it its still I.P theft . Not that im being holier than tho . Ive never bought 3rd P , but i would and will when i find the right 1 at the right price , like a MP scale G1 Jazz
Hey if it saves you money and comes at a better build quality over Takara.. go for it. Takara should be doing better. Im looking at you IT-02 Dinobot xD and Toysmage Beastwars Megatron
Someone ko ft insecticons, spotter, and Tesla!
LOL not sure why Maketoys got Koed but not Fanstoys! Thanks
The time value of money?
What does that mean?
Basically the Inflation kills our purchasing power so in the future $100 buys WAAAYYY less than today. All governments do it to pay their way out of being extremely poor with fiscal responsibility. Inflation should not exist but is artificially created by governments. Time value of money is accepted because this fraud is accepted.
who with right mind would buy mp 44 when there is cheaper KO that is in better quality, paint is not chipping just ehen you take it out of the box. this things are happening in official version that cost over 500USD. with that price that figure shouldn't have any problems. same with mp 45 bumblebee. those toys doesn't deserve to be called masterpiece, cause you are spending A LOT OF MONEY on something that you will be affraid to take of the box. that's redicules.
I am glad that 3rd party takes money away from takara because there price's are ridiculous they need to get there head out of there ass
I'm glad Takara takes money away from 3rd party because that's less money China has to genocide Uighurs.
When did Maketoys get KOd?
“Legally I have to hate 3rd Party. I just have to. That’s my legal stance…
… however…”
Agent Simmons Sector 7.
Okay… KO’s… we are not going there Ma’am, you and your Taco Bell doggy there.”
Takara lost the rights to Pokemon which is prolly the biggest toy, game, etc franchise in the world. I think that's why the MPs are so expensive nowadays. Theyre trying to make up the lost. Thats just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Could be part of it but they really should have given some explanation. Hasbro just came out saying they will raise the prices of their figures again soon...Sadly. Thanks
Technically third party is actually ko because it is not official
"KO" means it's copying an existing product. 3rd party's don't do that.
Toyworld Devastator is still the best
It is a good set! Thanks
Great informative video, I don't personally buy KO but I will buy 3rd party figures, the reason being that 3rd are creating the figures from scratch like Takara and Hasbro do (working out how to get it to change from robot to alt mode, what clearance they need for parts, what joints are required where) while the KO is just purchasing an existing figure taking it apart and reproducing it. As far as I am aware Hasbro and Takara never copyrighted or trademarked the transformers characters appearances, only character names, faction symbols and names, logos so 3rd party are not doing anything illegal. Yes they are using character designed by someone else but not legally owned by the creator. 3rd Party also make it perfectly clear that they have no affiliation to the Takara or Hasbro.
I thought you said no more ko wow your all over like a mess
Because 3rd party have Fanstoys.
So true! I have never seen an unlicensed company have the following Fanstoys has. They do deserve their praise! Thanks
I won't any more because ko rule good
They work hard on designing and creating and ko just copy models