meanwhile on TAFS: nick: it's so stupid, there's this guy on the internet, i dont know who he is, just some guy who does streaming on twitch... twitch is obviously owned by the chinese government adam: whats twitch is that like gamestop or something guest: "bruh like deadass i fw bro like that fr my sht like yea sht its good bro fr"
This is not my own original thought but I can't recall who to attribute it to, but the reason why the student protests on college campuses, as inspiring as they may be, CANNOT be the spark for meaningful change is because students are part of the surplus population. They can revolt because they don't have much productive capacity. Capital is not scared of them. I can't take any comfort in the hope that the generation coming up behind me will do what I couldn't. When they get to be my age and have jobs, they'll be just as scared for their livelihoods that they'll hope for the youth behind them to act.
I agree they're not like the same as if all truck drivers or dock workers went on sticker , but the amount of vitriol from politicians and business people and news outlets towards students doing literally nothing was ridiculous. There is definitely a sense from people that if elite educational institutions suffer a political shift on this that it'll have impacts down the line. I concede that those impacts might just be rich people who profit off of constant exploitation being shamed and shunned for it without actual economic change though.
Statistically the lion's share of them will be deradicalized by their mid 30s with decently compensated email jobs and inheritance of generational wealth. The % of college grads who enjoy either of those is definitely decreasing, but it's still a majority of them
Great podcast for those of us who fell down this niche political internet rabbit hole a decade ago and want to take one last look, tie up the loose ends, and gtfo. These feel like exit interviews for me in a very good way.
Look, as a guy who worked in a warehouse for a while... forklifting is fine, but... wouldn't call it fun.... especially when it's fine wine and the boss lives in one of the USA's richest ZIP codes
She’s not wrong about the chronically online, but also her podcast is the only reason I ever found out what was happening on Twitter. Chapo is essentially a summary of that week’s Atlantic articles and Twitter beefs. TrueAnon at least alternates between diet Chapo and actual coverage of interesting lesser known history. That’s why you’ve gotta have Mrs. brace Belden on the show
first 10 minutes felt really good for me to hear because I exactly related to almost everything. I was radicalized online over covid as a young, impressionable homeschooled teen, tried on all the hats, but only through a screen and I never really had many friends irl, and now im just coming out of my teenage years. I still struggle a lot, I still dont have much if any real life friends for a variety of reasons but mainly covid, and spending all my time in weird discord servers, and now because of that im entering adulthood with a major fear of “what if I said or did something horribly wrong”. I just got a therapist and am trying to get involved with more real-life subcultures and communities, also mentioned in this video, according to my interests. Doomscroll is an amazing series so far, and it has genuinely helped me mentally collect and assess the insanity that was the past 6 years for me.
After hearing a few of her discussions over Mark Fisher (RIP), decided to pick up one of his books as I got more curious about him and what he had to say. Ms. Frost is one of my favorite social/political commentators/critics.
to clarify i DO like aspects of this podcast a LOT, its just the formula of “what is YOUR take on the solving of all of our existential issues” and also only having like professionals and academics on does sorta combine for a super mixed bag of very important insights as well as complete mind boggling insinuations about kids who these guests don’t spend any time with
A lot of the insights are good, but there's definitely a tendency to linger on the topic of Wayward Boys/Men. More specifically, that lonely extremely online boys who are just trying on hats are artificially increasing the ranks of the right, and - I think more than one guest has insinuated at this point - inflating the ranks of the left too. I understand the sentiment that these younger dabblers are neither loyal nor reliable, but don't you have to start somewhere?
I would like to point out that just about every guest has been trying to speak about more than they had real experience with. These are classy people, all of them feel (to me) like they think they know a little more than they actually do know.
Yeah I seen a couple episodes that are interesting but it does start to feel a bit navel-gazey and a little like falling into the trap that is often described in these episodes of ‘intellectualizing politics n being too online instead of being strategic, taking action w your community & organizing’.. etc. But tbh I think part this is also just reflective of how there’s no real organized left like they constantly mention. So we just get together n talk about stuff together and I guess that’s the ‘left’
As a Teamster, I have to say, Frost has no idea what she’s talking about when it comes to O’Brien. I mean, she is utterly clueless. Later in the interview, she challenges leftists who would reject reforms in order to hurry along the revolution to make that argument to an audience of steel workers. Fair enough. But her take on O'Brien courting the GOP is just as ridiculous. O'Brien is NOT a reformer. A close ally of Hoffa until they fell out, he is a classic conservative business unionist. Her take on his RNC speech mirrors that if the most naive, sycophantic O’Brien loyalists. It makes me wonder what she doesn’t understand.
To say the Black Panther's weren't good at what they did is quite frankly insane, and revisionist. Yes, there are huge issues with romanticization and nostalgia traps but that comment was weird and incorrect. Also, Angela Davis was not a member of the BPP, her primary affiliation was with the CPUSA.
Exactly, if these organizations weren't "good or working" why was so much time, energy and resources devoted by the State to absolutely crush or co-opt them? It is like saying "see communism never took off anywhere else in the world, doesn't work, Soviets lost the Cold War" while ignoring everything the West did to violently undermine every effort and scorch any futile ground for revolution. You can still say "so what, a failure is a failure", but there is a lessons to be learned in identifying what was the "loser shit" and what had worked/could be a popular motivator if re-tool for the present moment.
@@Nikolas123333I’m not sure how effective the black panthers were but just because the govt infiltrates your organization - it doesn’t mean you posed a major threat to anything. Go take a look at the fbi agents that infiltrated a tiny militia in I think Michigan a few years back. They’ve also done the same with relatively small white supremacist groups . The motives behind these infiltrations are varied I imagine .
Most of her sentiments in this interview were just blatantly incorrect. Her entire weird "Economism" slant that anything that improves living conditions is worth it, we have to be as pragmatic as possible and as appealing to those of the working class as possible(despite the fact nearly 50% of the proletariat is swimming in false consciousness and in no revolutionary context or mass movement in history did the majority side with those with the proles best interests.All politics are about taking power to change society, change will never be fully accepted who cares, do whats best regardless even if its costly) was ridiculously off-base. Her dumb remark about this "stfu about revolution, you got the New Deal isnt that whats important?" vibe reeks of Liberal means tested gobbliegook that solves no problems historically OR even amount to the improved lives her pragmatism thinks its achieving. Those criticisms of "taking concessions" from a century ago were well founded b/c look at today? Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama etc ALL during those admins those concessions were destroyed with crumbs remaining today. Were getting closer to the Gilded Age every day. Look at the German revolution where a possible success(very close btw) was sabotaged DUE to that supposed pragmatism etcetc. There are SO MANY MORE instances of this idiotic "reactionary populist-Left" perspective of hers that didnt pan out, will never pan out, and serves as an unproductive antidote to REAL effective politics & movement-building for those who are feeling tired or alienated from "their own movement"(what movement lmao, youre a twitter user) and want to disconnect from the only community that aligns with their values and can offer REAL solidarity to build something. Its hilarious that people cant see this shit for what it is. A doomer-ass grift really. It is self-serving in its outcomes for her and for anyone spouting this weird do-nothing perspective that eternally bitches to "real Left-Wing action" about how its X or Y or "too this or that" or "needs to touch grass". With her eyes, you end up depressed, detached from any possible movement, & never satisfied with anything b/c you cant understand these projects are bigger than you and arent meant to comfort your doubts or populist skepticism. These weird tendencies amount to movements or parties or orgs with potential just losing hundreds of members, getting constant negative press from the indie-media THATS SUPPOSED TO PLATFORM THEM(that libs & others use as ammo), and overworked supporters or staff or rank & file getting disenchanted b/c insert-X-complaint isnt IMMEDIATELY assuaged with some dumb platitude or truism that misses the point of doing the work to begin with. These types of people will always yell at you, call you a LARP'r, complain about your rhetoric/tactics/slogans/etc, and endlessly scream its never gonna happen youll achieve nothing change cant be physically manifested. Revolution is a joke, power-grabs are impossible and pipe-dreams, organizing for anything other than policy is a waste of time blahblahblah dozens of writers & leaders of REAL movements have written endlessly on these tendencies & with their own movements proven how wrong these criticisms are. These people always gripe & try to drag you down into their own nihilistic political-bed-rot until one day funnily enough, material conditions drastically worsen(Civil Rights Mvmt, Queer Mvmt, Vietnam, OPEC crisis, NAFTA, WTO, Dotcom bubble, '07-09 Sub-Prime Crisis, Occupy, BLM, Eurozone/Debt Crisis, BLM again, COVID etc) and SUDDENLY the environment is ready for a true, Marxist-led or Anarchist-led, working class movement whether party or org lead and if youre doing the work right you will be ready to take the opportunity Capitalism gives you ever 6-8 years(roughly) to push the issues people need solved to the front. I know this was long and doesnt matter but please anyone that reads this dont lose hope & motivation, we are all we have.
Techno Utopianism under Capitalism, is just Capitalism. That's the problem with Capitalism, it's Capitalism all the way down - the prevalent hegemony usurps all other value systems it can, those it can't don't get noticed or essentially don't exist. This was the point Marcuse made in 1 Dimensional Man.
Something important to remember about early American Punks (late 1970s-early 1980s) is that a lot of these people weren't really political, at least at the start of the movement. For the most part, they were literal teenagers who were sick of how stale contemporary culture was at the time - so they decided to make their own. If you ever manage to track down a punk from that era, that's usually what they'll tell you. Penelope Spheeris' documentary "The Decline of Western Civilization" (1981) also offers a pretty candid look into the chaotic mindset of the American punk scene, specifically the Los Angeles and Orange County, CA punk scenes. Early punks were unprincipled and blindly anti-establishment; it was the opposite of the clean-cut image that music trends like Disco projected (Disco itself being a watered-down version of Funk and other byproducts of black youth subculture). Punks in the particularly nasty scenes like Huntington Beach were infamous for firebombing peoples' garages for the hell of it. Sure, many of these kids would grow up to become Anarchists, Feminists, and so on as they moved onto more mature subcultures like the burgeoning Goth and Postpunk scenes. Some of these kids were also Nazis who went to punk shows to fight people (these were the dipshits who helped kill the punk movement). But one thing you'll notice watching Spheeris' movie is that most of the kids she interviews are just bored and frustrated teenagers looking for a creative outlet. Much of that creative energy today has been outsourced online to social media, addictive video games, and other slop shops. But the kids are still bored and frustrated. Someone on the right - Steve Bannon, who else knows - knew their history and correctly identified this dynamic in the youth culture of the 2010s. And that's why we now have political movements disguised as brands. A lot of the angry, frustrated kids from The Decline would likely be twitter-addicted rightoids today, or they might be swindled by tankies or some other brand of anti-establishment slacktivism. It's pretty despairing to think about, honestly, because it means hopping back offline is probably one of the most revolutionary things you can do now. And that's just because it's really hard to do so when social media and other addiction machines have their hooks so deep in our flesh.
Great points there. I haven't watched this whole thing yet but I agree with the idea that searching for outlets offline not only feels novel now but necessary sometimes.
This kind of analysis undermines the validity of anti establishment feelings in the youth today who are doing far worse than their pampered and bored boomer parents did at that age.
@@DrLimbic The original punks were not Baby Boomers, and they were definitely NOT pampered. Ignoring the discontent of youth from the 1970s-80s is what allowed conservatives to so easily weaponize discontent in the 2010s, and it's a big part of how we got to where we are today.
It is very difficult to tell terminally online folks to put phone down and go outside. They are lost without apps and ability to text .. they just don’t ride bikes and build tree forts and explore like older generations. It will be interesting to see if they can break the internets hold
I am partial to matt then amber, but for some reason amber gives me the vibes of just daria or some shit, always looking for some shit to criticize. She is better when building ideas instead of just tearing down dumb ones from people who are probably dumb.
Amber leans way too hard on basically vulgar workerism. It should be obvious now that attaining any improvement for native workers' rights in the West is going to be partial handouts that ultimately don't do much in the face of a new economic crisis, but because we're so starved for any progress many people will take these handouts and then fall in line for whatever war or conflict is going to break out in the next decade or so. Any leftist who doesn't have a more global perspective on this stuff is increasingly just useless, and Amber's moment was in 2016 and ended in 2020. The pandemic and the relative decline of Western power means nothing she says here is relevant as the ruling class is trying to march towards disaster in every aspect. In just a few years, people like Amber will be talking up the weapons programs because it means jobs for US workers.
21:35 Lady, unions were fighting for workers rights in the 1920s - no one's alive who remembers the time before it, because before it was like, dying in a coal mine, being mutilated by industrial machinery and the fired for damaging the machine, and being a slave. This was stuff Karl Marx complained about about the 1800s. That the point of the forbidden subject most schools don't teach: Academic Labour History.
I knew Amber was from Indiana like me but I didn't know we went to the same commuter school. Troops, Ex-Cons, and Single Moms, Go Jags! (Note: that commuter school was the Indianapolis campus of Indiana University which is a huge biotech and medical school.)
Neoliberalism is over, it has already collapsed. What comes after might be better or worse, but it’s no longer neoliberalism. One interesting thing about Fukuyama is that he’s a Hegelian; not a Marxist or right-wing Hegelian, but a liberal one. The “end of history” thing is a Hegelian concept.
When it comes to labor and the American politicial parties just ask 1 question "which party will repeal Taft-Hartley?" Since the answer is neither labor will find no real allies in politics here. It will be a real struggle but labor has to go it alone.
I agree 100% the left abandoning its traditional base (labor, like you said) was the death knell of the party. It blows my mind that the Teamsters president spoke at the RNC.
28:17 I feel like the thing people were pissed about was like O'Brien essentially sucking off people like Josh Hawley and Vance as if they are labor friendly. I mean even the fucking VP of the teamstears called him a turncoat afterwards. Not just the social media dude, but like the second in charge was like that was disgusting.
i feel like these takes are just kinda stuck in 2019. which i get, because she was the thought leader during that time, but your analysis must grow and mature right? i think that it is entirely likely that wokescolding lead to a lot of guys turning to the right, but at this point that kind of progressive, fourth wave feminist, intersectional leftism is bound to universities and online spaces that are largely ignorable except when they act out, which is increasingly rare. we live in a climate where younger people turn to established right wing, even fashy, subcultures without any input at all from angry blue hairs.
This podcast has become my favorite in past few months. Why its being uploaded to Pod apps in a slower pace than to UA-cam? Thank you very much for your deep and forward thinking approach and bringing such fantastic guests.
Damn, this show is *so much better* when the guest is someone with an actual political opinion they want to express. I can appreciate the desire to keep a variety of guest positions but some of those early eps really turned me off when Joshua was visibly working hard just to keep the conversation flowing with a mostly reactive guest (cough, McCullough, cough)
Amber has a much better answer to the YMQ (young man question) than most people on the left who maintain their scolding nature with regards to this stuff.
Amber A’Lee Frost this lady is spot on with this shit. I never checked out chapo but she sure does say stuff that makes sense. Interviewer was fantastic also you can tell when someone is interviewing with genuine interest hats off to yall.
Josh citronella good job. I heard there's a new up and coming center left podcast worth checking out. Also ambers book is really good, her and Matt were always my favorite real people because they're that Midwestern sort of freak I am.
Really interesting point about teaching boys :) I've always thought that it would be nice to work with boys. I'm trying to get into teaching, but if I don't like it I'm thinking of trying out some form of social work. I'm a woman but I've always felt very boy-coded (not in a trans way more in like a traditional presenting hyperactive ADHD way, definitely the family Bart Simpson). The brashness of boys has always felt deeply relatable to me, and I appreciate you pointing out the positive side of this trait. I want to just say what I mean, and be free to be wrong, to get defensive and then apologize later, and be angry sometimes. This is just a part of being human and lots of space is left open for these feelings for boys and it makes them endearing. I want the next generation of girls to be afforded this space as well, I want more brash women because trying to repress these traits exhausts me every day.
I was shocked when I saw how few male grade school teachers and therapists there are. There are more female fighter pilots than there are male kindergarten teachers .
"have em drive a fuckin forklift, it's fun". Yea the salary and future prospects aren't fun though. Email jobs either make you work a lot or very little. But throughout all that, the pay is generally better, and the learning curve and effort is ultimately lower. Can't blame people for wanting a better deal. Forcing them to work a different job is certainly an idea, but not a good one
The implication with the forklift/real job thing is also to make the more "heard out" portions of the country understand what that kind of work is, and facilitating more acts of solidarity because people are like "damn this shit fuckin sucks."
@@WhenItsHalfPastFive see what you’re saying but nah. Driving a forklift is fun but working in a warehouse sucks. A lot of shitty jobs have genuinely satisfying tasks
@@WhenItsHalfPastFive Driving a forklift itself is fun, but the depth of the conversation is more than just the one little joke, it's broadly about the alienating effects of unproductive labor and "email jobs." It's something she's discussed on podcasts elsewhere and her writing.
@@THEMATTHIAS225came here to clarify this but you beat me to it. Some office-type jobs need to be done but there's a lot of bureaucratic abstraction in jobs that result in cosmically unproductive work. I've had one of those jobs. I was doing data entry work work orders. Basically convert a purchase request into an order in a system as a middle man between two internal employees. Eventually the department was scrapped because it was a useless step. There are a lot of those inefficiencies in an office environment, because a lot of incompetent ass kissers end up in middle management.
i wish more young people would get into the trades.. electrician, plumber, carpenter etc.. a good option for lot's of young people.. things badly needed in the USA and you can skip the whole college thing and debt trap.. and make good money after apprenticeship. but even while apprenticing the wage is good.
Bringing back manufacturing has to do with great power competition, not labor. The United States can no longer guarantee the security of international trade. Look at the Houthis blocking shipping in the Red Sea, Iran in the Persian Gulf, China in the South China Sea.
It's amazing to believe that the miniscule amount of successful "re-shoring" which has happened took place for any reason other than to do with great power competition and issues of capital flight and tariffs
The complete sense of disconnect I got watching these people discuss "reality" without talking about the environment, pollution, population overshoot, global debt load, etc. is wild... It's almost like this conversation is being layered onto a 1950's America where picking the right political labels or theories was the crucial to a lasting societal cohesion. The movement towards unions is great (although child labour laws are being degraded) and fighting for each other is crucial but thermodynamics are going to swallow our expansionist economies whole and pretending that isn't the shadow bearing down on us all is just ideology as a forward-facing nostalgia trap.
Amber is like an NYT op-ed columnist, she just sort of vaguely refers to things or people or groups, never really any specifics. Like - what concessions did JD Vance make to Sean O'Brien? lol
Amber needs to keep up with labor news; the Teamsters are no longer just teamsters with no professionals in their ranks. They just succeeded in organizing the biggest pool of Registered Nurses in Michigan some 7,000 or more at Corewell Health Corporation. All the traditional blue color unions are trying to move into pink collar and proletarianized professional job categories.
The idea of losing your meaning or purpose post revolution, or the idea that people wont know how to fill their time is very immature and condecending to those who actually work
Yeah that drives me insane. the amount of things I could do, like meaningful tasks, and things i could experience, if i didnt have to work. fuck being able to work 20 hours a week AND have all my needs met would be a dream. shes right in that humans needs tasks or events to find meaning, but not work. absolutely not work.
@@egyptianspaceodin1373 would be interesting if people no longer had to work if their lives would suffer from lack of meaning..? I have to admit I know quite a few retired people that went back to work - not because they needed the money but were simply bored. That or they felt their life had little meaning without a job to go to. Quite sad I know
Don't expect the left to shine with the same veneer as the right. The right has the media moguls on its side, the right has politicians on its side. To the point where it's easy to confuse this cultural pablum of right-wing, pro oligarch ideas as left since no one had a proper point of reference in mainstream. The left first has to transcend the mainstream's conditioning of reducing it to the boutique activism of identity politics. The left has to embrace class struggle as its main subject. MLK had his socialism scrubbed off in history books and the IWW got smashed by the state because those were getting too effective at conveying the message. Find what the establishment will be quick to demonize, and you're getting warmer...
Amen. The left being vocally pro-union and busting misinformation about organized labor would make them for the working class, but much of the working class believes that unions are bad because that's what the power structures feed them.
9:10 politics is simply a fandom with greater narrative appeal. Political fanfolk are convinced *their* particular hobby has some kind of agential return. Read Studebaker’s _The Way Is Shut_
It's interesting Amber has had a whole real life before Chapo. It makes Felix and Will even more annoying. Two trust fund babies who couldn't be bothered to ever participate in any social effort
This really summarized a lot of the cogitations I’ve had surrounding contemporary leftist modus operandi since I entered college and how I grapple with being someone on the left who really cant see myself in modern leftist ‘spaces’. Truly great stuff keep it up!
In twilight’s glow, where whispers weave, Amber reigns, based queen of the Sami, With grace like shadows on the steppe, Priestess bound by ancient depth. Her eyes hold secrets of the earth, Stories sung in wind’s soft breath, Birch bows loose as she glides, A dance of fire, a spirit unconfined.
1:06:00 - A sort of anti-hyper-online thing I enjoy is going on big cruises ships. I've noticed how much I've enjoyed talking to strangers on those and they are a pretty diverse cross-section of the American population that are mostly in the same class. It's not a perfect environment but it's detached completely from more arbitrary framework of geographical regions, urban vs. rural, etc. It's something elected officials should be forced to do in order to actually talk to real people. On top of that the ships themselves are sort of absurd spectacle of late-stage capitalism to behold.
This is every conversation at 1st year philosophy students after lecture coffee with proffesor trying to kiss his ass but also wannabe intellectually contrarian. Its that insufferable girl in first row adressing only proffesor during lecture and discussions cuz she thinks she better then every1 cuz she read Hegel before schedule.
Yeah, she didn't expand on that at all as to why you need to pay attention to those kinds of people. The interviewer doesn't really do a good job of picking her brain.
Amber was good solely for calling out SJW and radlib hypocrisy. On everything else, she takes the position of "what would the median noble savage Joe Rogan fan think about this" which is a completely stupid way to look at things.
@@checkdestroy it's a shame she hasn't said anything _really_ based though, because you can definitely feel she wants to whenever a woke wrecker comes up in conversation.
@@checkdestroy My sense from the podcast was that Amber's personality got defined when she was the only person from a working class or genuinely poor background among her middle class-to-wealthy Brooklyn social milieu. The "working class whisperer" thing still seems to works on them, but once you break outside that bubble, it's completely out of touch.
@@chicomojo the problem is that acculturation to this milieu has taken any vigor or novelty to her takes, it's like an immigrant from another country who's "frozen in time" at the moment of immigration while their original nation's culture has progressed
58:41 Breaks down here for me. She says Nazis created industry, she said she was deindustrialist, but thinks we're too diverse to replicate, so we should have "piecemeal" change. We need a platform, a party, an aesthetic we need it all.
I find this pretty shallow. I am someone who was deprogrammed from being a Trump supporter. I think Elle Reeve's book "The Black Pill" has more insight.
6:32 It's almost comical seeing people as young as you both are put on the age old boomer-esque routine of "back in my day...". Like ironically enough its *you* who have become so chronically online and isolated in *your* weird little niche internet corners you believe young people don't do things in person anymore. Weird tbh.
The book is great but the dot connections, the real wisdom, is found in Amber's interviews. Catherine Liu's "Virtue Horders" is similar. The book is terribly academic while her interviews are far better translations into 'common' language; far more revealing and accessible.
I'm not looking for a far left podcast. I'm not looking for a far right podcast. I'm looking for a podcast where I can be gay with my dad.
Hm, all I can off you is the center left podcast The Adam Friedland Show
PodSaveAmerica
Ah yes, the Joe Rogan Experience
Welcome home son
Cheek Clappers
hey it's my best friend Nick Mullen's old roommate!
If those walls could talk…
who
This youtube series is the real Adam Friedland Show huh
Just wait until they get jake flores and gerby gomo on here
Cool Adam next episode
If we got Cool Adam or a serious nick, ill suck anyone
Adam coping and seething rn
meanwhile on TAFS:
nick: it's so stupid, there's this guy on the internet, i dont know who he is, just some guy who does streaming on twitch... twitch is obviously owned by the chinese government
adam: whats twitch is that like gamestop or something
guest: "bruh like deadass i fw bro like that fr my sht like yea sht its good bro fr"
This is not my own original thought but I can't recall who to attribute it to, but the reason why the student protests on college campuses, as inspiring as they may be, CANNOT be the spark for meaningful change is because students are part of the surplus population. They can revolt because they don't have much productive capacity. Capital is not scared of them. I can't take any comfort in the hope that the generation coming up behind me will do what I couldn't. When they get to be my age and have jobs, they'll be just as scared for their livelihoods that they'll hope for the youth behind them to act.
those "students protests" just need to lable and think themselves as workes protests.. i mean most students are workers..
I agree they're not like the same as if all truck drivers or dock workers went on sticker , but the amount of vitriol from politicians and business people and news outlets towards students doing literally nothing was ridiculous. There is definitely a sense from people that if elite educational institutions suffer a political shift on this that it'll have impacts down the line. I concede that those impacts might just be rich people who profit off of constant exploitation being shamed and shunned for it without actual economic change though.
so basically i feel like you could have shortened this to “we would need a general strike”
Statistically the lion's share of them will be deradicalized by their mid 30s with decently compensated email jobs and inheritance of generational wealth. The % of college grads who enjoy either of those is definitely decreasing, but it's still a majority of them
@@paulvangenhassend5146 i know at Columbia the union wanted to strike but had just got under a contract with a no strike clause
Great podcast for those of us who fell down this niche political internet rabbit hole a decade ago and want to take one last look, tie up the loose ends, and gtfo. These feel like exit interviews for me in a very good way.
hell yeah brother
damn nailed it
🔥🔥
I mean, you’re not wrong, but GTFO to where though?
@@P_Messington real politics rather than political entertainment
The forklift jobs need to pay living wages
Here in NZ they do, and the unionised ones pay even more.
So build a wall
They often do.
how much is a living wage?
@@GoDrex Any wage that allows you to pay your bills including rent and doctors' visits.
When is the DSA president Nick Mullen going to be interviewed?
It would just be an hour of him talking about Ukraine and comics from 2009 with the occasional “yeah” from Josh
Look, as a guy who worked in a warehouse for a while... forklifting is fine, but... wouldn't call it fun.... especially when it's fine wine and the boss lives in one of the USA's richest ZIP codes
I could not believe how bubble brained of an opener that was. I'm three minutes in and turning it off. This Doomscroll podcast is a bit trash.
@@bigggmoustache8868 Oh, come on. Any person with a sense of fun would think forklifts are cool.
@@bigggmoustache8868 My guy. There's a lot of stuff to be gained from this interview. I was just trying to point out something goofy in the messaging.
i mean she's a yuppie podcast host. she hasn't worked a real job since 2016
Very very few jobs are going to be fun - there’s a good reason they call it work
She’s not wrong about the chronically online, but also her podcast is the only reason I ever found out what was happening on Twitter. Chapo is essentially a summary of that week’s Atlantic articles and Twitter beefs. TrueAnon at least alternates between diet Chapo and actual coverage of interesting lesser known history. That’s why you’ve gotta have Mrs. brace Belden on the show
Yes get Liz on the show !
He did have Mrs. Brace Belden on the show, their name is Young Chomsky
Once I discovered Matt christman’s cush vlogs I never looked back towards Chapo, even though it’s often very funny.
Yeah Liz would be an excellent guest, because she can go into the nuts-and-bolts of a subject without getting bogged down by minutiae.
@@Garrett1240Cushvlogs is legit, fellow grillpiller.
first 10 minutes felt really good for me to hear because I exactly related to almost everything. I was radicalized online over covid as a young, impressionable homeschooled teen, tried on all the hats, but only through a screen and I never really had many friends irl, and now im just coming out of my teenage years. I still struggle a lot, I still dont have much if any real life friends for a variety of reasons but mainly covid, and spending all my time in weird discord servers, and now because of that im entering adulthood with a major fear of “what if I said or did something horribly wrong”. I just got a therapist and am trying to get involved with more real-life subcultures and communities, also mentioned in this video, according to my interests. Doomscroll is an amazing series so far, and it has genuinely helped me mentally collect and assess the insanity that was the past 6 years for me.
best of luck man
Nobody in real life will care about anything considered offensive online. Just let it all hang out; you are inherently good enough.
how many guns do you own?
You should read Amber's book! I think it will help you understand why none of the hats fit right, and why you'd never wear them outdoors
@ Which book is it? Also thanks for the rec, ive been wanting to read more!
I have literally never seen 2 photographs/videos of Amber where she looked like the same person in both.
Reminds me of how Felix is never at the same weight level in any of his public appearances
i thought the same
Her voice is the only way i can ever recognize her
This is hilariously true.
It's the hair.
Dude. You’re crushing it, so high quality, so consistent. Glad to know who you are now and your work
I swear, Amber shapeshifts for every interview or photo. I'd never be able to recognize her out of a line up.
She once described herself as resembling Wendy Koopa and that honestly helps.
Her face does look like a crude facsimile of a human made from silly putty.
So that checks out.
In the most indescribly odd way she is kind of cute
She's an interesting liminal racial space
the smoking is catching up with her
people in real life: hey man how are you
Well yeah it’s called doomscroll for a reason
No no you don’t understand, you have to bloviate and make sweeping generalizations about the culture and youth
@@voodoochili12why listen to something that pisses you off?
@@David-gr1do why only listen to stuff you agree with?
After hearing a few of her discussions over Mark Fisher (RIP), decided to pick up one of his books as I got more curious about him and what he had to say. Ms. Frost is one of my favorite social/political commentators/critics.
and in the same breath smear all american anarchists as ancaps lmao.
to clarify i DO like aspects of this podcast a LOT, its just the formula of “what is YOUR take on the solving of all of our existential issues” and also only having like professionals and academics on does sorta combine for a super mixed bag of very important insights as well as complete mind boggling insinuations about kids who these guests don’t spend any time with
A lot of the insights are good, but there's definitely a tendency to linger on the topic of Wayward Boys/Men. More specifically, that lonely extremely online boys who are just trying on hats are artificially increasing the ranks of the right, and - I think more than one guest has insinuated at this point - inflating the ranks of the left too. I understand the sentiment that these younger dabblers are neither loyal nor reliable, but don't you have to start somewhere?
I would like to point out that just about every guest has been trying to speak about more than they had real experience with. These are classy people, all of them feel (to me) like they think they know a little more than they actually do know.
To be fair Joshua had a previous podcast series that did one-off interviews with these sort of radicalized online teens/young adults
Professionals and academics? Where? It's all podcasters and UA-camrs lmao.
Yeah I seen a couple episodes that are interesting but it does start to feel a bit navel-gazey and a little like falling into the trap that is often described in these episodes of ‘intellectualizing politics n being too online instead of being strategic, taking action w your community & organizing’.. etc.
But tbh I think part this is also just reflective of how there’s no real organized left like they constantly mention. So we just get together n talk about stuff together and I guess that’s the ‘left’
As a Teamster, I have to say, Frost has no idea what she’s talking about when it comes to O’Brien. I mean, she is utterly clueless. Later in the interview, she challenges leftists who would reject reforms in order to hurry along the revolution to make that argument to an audience of steel workers. Fair enough. But her take on O'Brien courting the GOP is just as ridiculous. O'Brien is NOT a reformer. A close ally of Hoffa until they fell out, he is a classic conservative business unionist. Her take on his RNC speech mirrors that if the most naive, sycophantic O’Brien loyalists. It makes me wonder what she doesn’t understand.
To say the Black Panther's weren't good at what they did is quite frankly insane, and revisionist. Yes, there are huge issues with romanticization and nostalgia traps but that comment was weird and incorrect. Also, Angela Davis was not a member of the BPP, her primary affiliation was with the CPUSA.
Exactly, if these organizations weren't "good or working" why was so much time, energy and resources devoted by the State to absolutely crush or co-opt them? It is like saying "see communism never took off anywhere else in the world, doesn't work, Soviets lost the Cold War" while ignoring everything the West did to violently undermine every effort and scorch any futile ground for revolution. You can still say "so what, a failure is a failure", but there is a lessons to be learned in identifying what was the "loser shit" and what had worked/could be a popular motivator if re-tool for the present moment.
@@Nikolas123333I’m not sure how effective the black panthers were but just because the govt infiltrates your organization - it doesn’t mean you posed a major threat to anything. Go take a look at the fbi agents that infiltrated a tiny militia in I think
Michigan a few years back. They’ve also done the same with relatively small white supremacist groups . The motives behind these infiltrations are varied I imagine .
This is VERY classic Amber behavior. She only knows how to speak in extreme polemical hyperbole.
Wait till you hear what this grifter goon said about the Move bombing on Chapo 😢
Most of her sentiments in this interview were just blatantly incorrect. Her entire weird "Economism" slant that anything that improves living conditions is worth it, we have to be as pragmatic as possible and as appealing to those of the working class as possible(despite the fact nearly 50% of the proletariat is swimming in false consciousness and in no revolutionary context or mass movement in history did the majority side with those with the proles best interests.All politics are about taking power to change society, change will never be fully accepted who cares, do whats best regardless even if its costly) was ridiculously off-base. Her dumb remark about this "stfu about revolution, you got the New Deal isnt that whats important?" vibe reeks of Liberal means tested gobbliegook that solves no problems historically OR even amount to the improved lives her pragmatism thinks its achieving. Those criticisms of "taking concessions" from a century ago were well founded b/c look at today? Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama etc ALL during those admins those concessions were destroyed with crumbs remaining today. Were getting closer to the Gilded Age every day. Look at the German revolution where a possible success(very close btw) was sabotaged DUE to that supposed pragmatism etcetc.
There are SO MANY MORE instances of this idiotic "reactionary populist-Left" perspective of hers that didnt pan out, will never pan out, and serves as an unproductive antidote to REAL effective politics & movement-building for those who are feeling tired or alienated from "their own movement"(what movement lmao, youre a twitter user) and want to disconnect from the only community that aligns with their values and can offer REAL solidarity to build something.
Its hilarious that people cant see this shit for what it is. A doomer-ass grift really. It is self-serving in its outcomes for her and for anyone spouting this weird do-nothing perspective that eternally bitches to "real Left-Wing action" about how its X or Y or "too this or that" or "needs to touch grass". With her eyes, you end up depressed, detached from any possible movement, & never satisfied with anything b/c you cant understand these projects are bigger than you and arent meant to comfort your doubts or populist skepticism. These weird tendencies amount to movements or parties or orgs with potential just losing hundreds of members, getting constant negative press from the indie-media THATS SUPPOSED TO PLATFORM THEM(that libs & others use as ammo), and overworked supporters or staff or rank & file getting disenchanted b/c insert-X-complaint isnt IMMEDIATELY assuaged with some dumb platitude or truism that misses the point of doing the work to begin with. These types of people will always yell at you, call you a LARP'r, complain about your rhetoric/tactics/slogans/etc, and endlessly scream its never gonna happen youll achieve nothing change cant be physically manifested. Revolution is a joke, power-grabs are impossible and pipe-dreams, organizing for anything other than policy is a waste of time blahblahblah dozens of writers & leaders of REAL movements have written endlessly on these tendencies & with their own movements proven how wrong these criticisms are. These people always gripe & try to drag you down into their own nihilistic political-bed-rot until one day funnily enough, material conditions drastically worsen(Civil Rights Mvmt, Queer Mvmt, Vietnam, OPEC crisis, NAFTA, WTO, Dotcom bubble, '07-09 Sub-Prime Crisis, Occupy, BLM, Eurozone/Debt Crisis, BLM again, COVID etc) and SUDDENLY the environment is ready for a true, Marxist-led or Anarchist-led, working class movement whether party or org lead and if youre doing the work right you will be ready to take the opportunity Capitalism gives you ever 6-8 years(roughly) to push the issues people need solved to the front.
I know this was long and doesnt matter but please anyone that reads this dont lose hope & motivation, we are all we have.
Techno Utopianism under Capitalism, is just Capitalism. That's the problem with Capitalism, it's Capitalism all the way down - the prevalent hegemony usurps all other value systems it can, those it can't don't get noticed or essentially don't exist. This was the point Marcuse made in 1 Dimensional Man.
claiming “3 Kooks in a Maoist Cult” (3KMC) for my new band; consider this internet poor-man’s copyright 🙌
Something important to remember about early American Punks (late 1970s-early 1980s) is that a lot of these people weren't really political, at least at the start of the movement. For the most part, they were literal teenagers who were sick of how stale contemporary culture was at the time - so they decided to make their own. If you ever manage to track down a punk from that era, that's usually what they'll tell you. Penelope Spheeris' documentary "The Decline of Western Civilization" (1981) also offers a pretty candid look into the chaotic mindset of the American punk scene, specifically the Los Angeles and Orange County, CA punk scenes. Early punks were unprincipled and blindly anti-establishment; it was the opposite of the clean-cut image that music trends like Disco projected (Disco itself being a watered-down version of Funk and other byproducts of black youth subculture). Punks in the particularly nasty scenes like Huntington Beach were infamous for firebombing peoples' garages for the hell of it. Sure, many of these kids would grow up to become Anarchists, Feminists, and so on as they moved onto more mature subcultures like the burgeoning Goth and Postpunk scenes. Some of these kids were also Nazis who went to punk shows to fight people (these were the dipshits who helped kill the punk movement). But one thing you'll notice watching Spheeris' movie is that most of the kids she interviews are just bored and frustrated teenagers looking for a creative outlet.
Much of that creative energy today has been outsourced online to social media, addictive video games, and other slop shops. But the kids are still bored and frustrated. Someone on the right - Steve Bannon, who else knows - knew their history and correctly identified this dynamic in the youth culture of the 2010s. And that's why we now have political movements disguised as brands. A lot of the angry, frustrated kids from The Decline would likely be twitter-addicted rightoids today, or they might be swindled by tankies or some other brand of anti-establishment slacktivism. It's pretty despairing to think about, honestly, because it means hopping back offline is probably one of the most revolutionary things you can do now. And that's just because it's really hard to do so when social media and other addiction machines have their hooks so deep in our flesh.
Great points there. I haven't watched this whole thing yet but I agree with the idea that searching for outlets offline not only feels novel now but necessary sometimes.
This kind of analysis undermines the validity of anti establishment feelings in the youth today who are doing far worse than their pampered and bored boomer parents did at that age.
@@DrLimbic The original punks were not Baby Boomers, and they were definitely NOT pampered. Ignoring the discontent of youth from the 1970s-80s is what allowed conservatives to so easily weaponize discontent in the 2010s, and it's a big part of how we got to where we are today.
It is very difficult to tell terminally online folks to put phone down and go outside. They are lost without apps and ability to text .. they just don’t ride bikes and build tree forts and explore like older generations. It will be interesting to see if they can break the internets hold
To much reading
With all due respect, Amber is my favorite Chapo host. I love listening to her talk.
I am partial to matt then amber, but for some reason amber gives me the vibes of just daria or some shit, always looking for some shit to criticize. She is better when building ideas instead of just tearing down dumb ones from people who are probably dumb.
Amber leans way too hard on basically vulgar workerism. It should be obvious now that attaining any improvement for native workers' rights in the West is going to be partial handouts that ultimately don't do much in the face of a new economic crisis, but because we're so starved for any progress many people will take these handouts and then fall in line for whatever war or conflict is going to break out in the next decade or so. Any leftist who doesn't have a more global perspective on this stuff is increasingly just useless, and Amber's moment was in 2016 and ended in 2020. The pandemic and the relative decline of Western power means nothing she says here is relevant as the ruling class is trying to march towards disaster in every aspect. In just a few years, people like Amber will be talking up the weapons programs because it means jobs for US workers.
@@checkdestroywow that was a whole lottta projecting your own shit on someone you dont know. Good luck with that, I'm sure your great at parties.
21:35 Lady, unions were fighting for workers rights in the 1920s - no one's alive who remembers the time before it, because before it was like, dying in a coal mine, being mutilated by industrial machinery and the fired for damaging the machine, and being a slave. This was stuff Karl Marx complained about about the 1800s. That the point of the forbidden subject most schools don't teach: Academic Labour History.
I don’t think she would disagree with anything you said here man
You really need to read about her for 15 mins to see she not only agrees with you but has done 100x more in real life for those causes and more
A stupid comment by a man who's more interested in showing off than listening to the interview.
I definitely recommend Amber’s Dirtbag Essays. Especially for the aging millennial getting walloped by their own introspection.
I feel seen by that second sentence
@@chris.scott510 sentences that start with "I feel seen" are gay
@@Juck_The_Fews Cool. I'm gay with my dad.
@@freeLuigiMangione1224same dude!
I knew Amber was from Indiana like me but I didn't know we went to the same commuter school. Troops, Ex-Cons, and Single Moms, Go Jags!
(Note: that commuter school was the Indianapolis campus of Indiana University which is a huge biotech and medical school.)
She’s from Noblesville I think
And it has a good law school.
Neoliberalism is over, it has already collapsed. What comes after might be better or worse, but it’s no longer neoliberalism. One interesting thing about Fukuyama is that he’s a Hegelian; not a Marxist or right-wing Hegelian, but a liberal one. The “end of history” thing is a Hegelian concept.
When it comes to labor and the American politicial parties just ask 1 question "which party will repeal Taft-Hartley?" Since the answer is neither labor will find no real allies in politics here. It will be a real struggle but labor has to go it alone.
I agree 100% the left abandoning its traditional base (labor, like you said) was the death knell of the party. It blows my mind that the Teamsters president spoke at the RNC.
Thanks!
28:17 I feel like the thing people were pissed about was like O'Brien essentially sucking off people like Josh Hawley and Vance as if they are labor friendly. I mean even the fucking VP of the teamstears called him a turncoat afterwards. Not just the social media dude, but like the second in charge was like that was disgusting.
i feel like these takes are just kinda stuck in 2019. which i get, because she was the thought leader during that time, but your analysis must grow and mature right? i think that it is entirely likely that wokescolding lead to a lot of guys turning to the right, but at this point that kind of progressive, fourth wave feminist, intersectional leftism is bound to universities and online spaces that are largely ignorable except when they act out, which is increasingly rare. we live in a climate where younger people turn to established right wing, even fashy, subcultures without any input at all from angry blue hairs.
Who are the biggest intersectional, feminist, progressive creators on UA-cam?
@@brianmeen2158 the Adam friedland show
This podcast has become my favorite in past few months. Why its being uploaded to Pod apps in a slower pace than to UA-cam? Thank you very much for your deep and forward thinking approach and bringing such fantastic guests.
“The only reason you’re able to hold this opinion is because you are not around the people it would affect” ……Hot damn……. 37:01
She’s criticizing online people. No one serious thinks this. She’s criticizing fake straw men
Damn, this show is *so much better* when the guest is someone with an actual political opinion they want to express. I can appreciate the desire to keep a variety of guest positions but some of those early eps really turned me off when Joshua was visibly working hard just to keep the conversation flowing with a mostly reactive guest (cough, McCullough, cough)
JJ is a total tard and was a bad guest for this pod
I paused my current pod to tune into an Amber pod
Amber has a much better answer to the YMQ (young man question) than most people on the left who maintain their scolding nature with regards to this stuff.
The answer to the YMQ is a national jobs program- especially one that involves travel and barracks living. We've got a civilization to build.
@@spencer8218you must be a leftist
"more slop"
less scolding more scalding
@@spencer8218 we need a new deal to build the country back. A federal jobs program to build the infrastructure we need.
I want her to hear me out and tell me how I'm wrong
Amber A’Lee Frost this lady is spot on with this shit. I never checked out chapo but she sure does say stuff that makes sense. Interviewer was fantastic also you can tell when someone is interviewing with genuine interest hats off to yall.
She’s right, we used to have sports and music
Does anyone remember laughter?
We love Amber, don’t we folks? Some say she was the best Chapo.
Can we get the audio on Spotify please 🙏
DO THIS!
And Apple Podcasts pls.
Can’t wait for the Virgil Texas episode next!!!
They have to find him first
@@cartermize6651 He went night boating.
they have to lure him in with a 16 year old girl
@@deathgripsisokay47dude that will actually work lol
Josh citronella good job. I heard there's a new up and coming center left podcast worth checking out. Also ambers book is really good, her and Matt were always my favorite real people because they're that Midwestern sort of freak I am.
loving the more comfortable looking chairs
Really interesting point about teaching boys :) I've always thought that it would be nice to work with boys. I'm trying to get into teaching, but if I don't like it I'm thinking of trying out some form of social work. I'm a woman but I've always felt very boy-coded (not in a trans way more in like a traditional presenting hyperactive ADHD way, definitely the family Bart Simpson). The brashness of boys has always felt deeply relatable to me, and I appreciate you pointing out the positive side of this trait. I want to just say what I mean, and be free to be wrong, to get defensive and then apologize later, and be angry sometimes. This is just a part of being human and lots of space is left open for these feelings for boys and it makes them endearing. I want the next generation of girls to be afforded this space as well, I want more brash women because trying to repress these traits exhausts me every day.
I was shocked when I saw how few male grade school teachers and therapists there are. There are more female fighter pilots than there are male kindergarten teachers .
"have em drive a fuckin forklift, it's fun". Yea the salary and future prospects aren't fun though. Email jobs either make you work a lot or very little. But throughout all that, the pay is generally better, and the learning curve and effort is ultimately lower. Can't blame people for wanting a better deal. Forcing them to work a different job is certainly an idea, but not a good one
The implication with the forklift/real job thing is also to make the more "heard out" portions of the country understand what that kind of work is, and facilitating more acts of solidarity because people are like "damn this shit fuckin sucks."
@@THEMATTHIAS225 "damn this shit sucks" and "drive a forklift, it's fun" are two contradicting messages though.
@@WhenItsHalfPastFive see what you’re saying but nah. Driving a forklift is fun but working in a warehouse sucks. A lot of shitty jobs have genuinely satisfying tasks
@@WhenItsHalfPastFive Driving a forklift itself is fun, but the depth of the conversation is more than just the one little joke, it's broadly about the alienating effects of unproductive labor and "email jobs." It's something she's discussed on podcasts elsewhere and her writing.
@@THEMATTHIAS225came here to clarify this but you beat me to it. Some office-type jobs need to be done but there's a lot of bureaucratic abstraction in jobs that result in cosmically unproductive work. I've had one of those jobs. I was doing data entry work work orders. Basically convert a purchase request into an order in a system as a middle man between two internal employees. Eventually the department was scrapped because it was a useless step. There are a lot of those inefficiencies in an office environment, because a lot of incompetent ass kissers end up in middle management.
i wish more young people would get into the trades.. electrician, plumber, carpenter etc.. a good option for lot's of young people.. things badly needed in the USA and you can skip the whole college thing and debt trap.. and make good money after apprenticeship. but even while apprenticing the wage is good.
My drug addict cousin makes over 100k a year as an electrician and wastes it all on heroin
@@MattHrelahell yea dude my cousin makes $40k working security and wastes it all on meth lmfao
This is the woman who single handedly kept nick from ending himself through his 20s. Bravo
The reference to a punk band in Cincinnati that would not play in Indiana hit me in my music nuts.
First! do you have enough clout to get Zizek on?
Zizek will talk to anyone with a mic
you could probably get zizek in an interview by bribing him with 4 hot dogs, so i bet citarella does.
@@rpemulisand so on And so forth
I have this joke, you may have heard me say it before
@@calzonelover3950 thomething thomething radio yerevan
She sounds a lot like Christman, organizing must be about common purpose that isn't rent seeking, and BTW, take the punks bowling.
Bringing back manufacturing has to do with great power competition, not labor. The United States can no longer guarantee the security of international trade. Look at the Houthis blocking shipping in the Red Sea, Iran in the Persian Gulf, China in the South China Sea.
also the owners of the manufacturing factories are probably hedge funds
It has everything to do with labor
It's amazing to believe that the miniscule amount of successful "re-shoring" which has happened took place for any reason other than to do with great power competition and issues of capital flight and tariffs
I love Amber. The chapo guys (with one particular) can be so snobby without her or Matt on
I've never gotten snobby from Felix or Will
I don't know about snobby but will felix and chris have certain lib reflexes that aren't as thoroughly suppressed as matt's or amber's
@@lokaiya ok
@@lokaiyawhat are you talking about?
GUYS! SHE'S NOT CHINESE! STOP TYPING "HELLO SNOW BLOSSOM"
Ummm
@@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub It's an eye shape and assumptions joke. Nvm, let the yellow fever brigade be, and walk away calmly.
Uhhhh.... you're Chinese.
41:00 “Aight I’ma head out…” -SpongeBob
This might be becoming my favourite centre-left talk show. Also I’m gay.
Elder scrolls oblivion: waifu edition
Everyone in the comments is too aware I'm scared
The complete sense of disconnect I got watching these people discuss "reality" without talking about the environment, pollution, population overshoot, global debt load, etc. is wild... It's almost like this conversation is being layered onto a 1950's America where picking the right political labels or theories was the crucial to a lasting societal cohesion. The movement towards unions is great (although child labour laws are being degraded) and fighting for each other is crucial but thermodynamics are going to swallow our expansionist economies whole and pretending that isn't the shadow bearing down on us all is just ideology as a forward-facing nostalgia trap.
Based.
Amber is like an NYT op-ed columnist, she just sort of vaguely refers to things or people or groups, never really any specifics. Like - what concessions did JD Vance make to Sean O'Brien? lol
You’re trying too hard
Almost like there are different aspects of reality
@@coda-n6uyeah it’s almost like different people have much different mindsets and perceptions of reality
Amber's always been my favorite Chapo host
Matty Healy then Amber? Nick Mullen imminent
Loving the series as it forces some sort of engagement out of my mind, but could a fellow get where that intro riff came from?
I want to know Amber’s favorite bands back in the day
congrats Josh this is the best podcast series at the moment
I love her 😌
Amber needs to keep up with labor news; the Teamsters are no longer just teamsters with no professionals in their ranks. They just succeeded in organizing the biggest pool of Registered Nurses in Michigan some 7,000 or more at Corewell Health Corporation. All the traditional blue color unions are trying to move into pink collar and proletarianized professional job categories.
What are you doing?
The idea of losing your meaning or purpose post revolution, or the idea that people wont know how to fill their time is very immature and condecending to those who actually work
Yeah that drives me insane. the amount of things I could do, like meaningful tasks, and things i could experience, if i didnt have to work. fuck being able to work 20 hours a week AND have all my needs met would be a dream. shes right in that humans needs tasks or events to find meaning, but not work. absolutely not work.
@@egyptianspaceodin1373 would be interesting if people no longer had to work if their lives would suffer from lack of meaning..? I have to admit I know quite a few retired people that went back to work - not because they needed the money but were simply bored. That or they felt their life had little meaning without a job to go to. Quite sad I know
Don't expect the left to shine with the same veneer as the right. The right has the media moguls on its side, the right has politicians on its side. To the point where it's easy to confuse this cultural pablum of right-wing, pro oligarch ideas as left since no one had a proper point of reference in mainstream. The left first has to transcend the mainstream's conditioning of reducing it to the boutique activism of identity politics. The left has to embrace class struggle as its main subject. MLK had his socialism scrubbed off in history books and the IWW got smashed by the state because those were getting too effective at conveying the message. Find what the establishment will be quick to demonize, and you're getting warmer...
Amen. The left being vocally pro-union and busting misinformation about organized labor would make them for the working class, but much of the working class believes that unions are bad because that's what the power structures feed them.
Geordie Greep when??
9:10 politics is simply a fandom with greater narrative appeal. Political fanfolk are convinced *their* particular hobby has some kind of agential return. Read Studebaker’s _The Way Is Shut_
I love Amber so much she's the coolest
Ya ever notice theres no such thing as after school programs anymore, boys and girls clubs anything like that,
I love Amber
This is one of my favorite interviews, in a while. Very cool.
I liked it too but I have seen another good one recently
It's interesting Amber has had a whole real life before Chapo. It makes Felix and Will even more annoying. Two trust fund babies who couldn't be bothered to ever participate in any social effort
God, Felix is so unfunny
@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub A product of Jewish inbreeding
Josh asks some quite incisive questions....
Truly the Piers Morgan of our time
😂
subscribed at 23.9k subscribers.
love how often she mentions hats.... love it...
Love her dearly, but then again I’m chronically online.
This is like that episode of It's Always Sunny where the people talking in rural American accents turn out to be a family of Asians.
Love Amber, great to see her on here! I really recommend reading her book Dirtbag, it made a big impression on me
Love the editing btw
This really summarized a lot of the cogitations I’ve had surrounding contemporary leftist modus operandi since I entered college and how I grapple with being someone on the left who really cant see myself in modern leftist ‘spaces’. Truly great stuff keep it up!
Liz from TrueAnon and Matt from Chapo would both be great (when Matt is healthy and able)
In twilight’s glow, where whispers weave,
Amber reigns, based queen of the Sami,
With grace like shadows on the steppe,
Priestess bound by ancient depth.
Her eyes hold secrets of the earth,
Stories sung in wind’s soft breath,
Birch bows loose as she glides,
A dance of fire, a spirit unconfined.
Okay, ChatGPT.
Gross
1:06:00 - A sort of anti-hyper-online thing I enjoy is going on big cruises ships. I've noticed how much I've enjoyed talking to strangers on those and they are a pretty diverse cross-section of the American population that are mostly in the same class. It's not a perfect environment but it's detached completely from more arbitrary framework of geographical regions, urban vs. rural, etc. It's something elected officials should be forced to do in order to actually talk to real people. On top of that the ships themselves are sort of absurd spectacle of late-stage capitalism to behold.
This is a fantastic series Josh! Brace Belden? Yung Chomsky? Amber A’Lee Frost? Excellent work. 😌
This is every conversation at 1st year philosophy students after lecture coffee with proffesor trying to kiss his ass but also wannabe intellectually contrarian. Its that insufferable girl in first row adressing only proffesor during lecture and discussions cuz she thinks she better then every1 cuz she read Hegel before schedule.
She read Hegel but is also already SO over Hegel.
WTF?!?!
And ur the guy watching it 😮
@@coda-n6u you do know that you’d have to have watched something to have an opinion on it, right? That’s kind of how that works? It’s not an “own.”
@@matthewcaldwell8100 ik I’m just being an annoying gremlin, ignore me
"look out for those that dont have friends" ... how are they supposed to make friends then?
Yeah, she didn't expand on that at all as to why you need to pay attention to those kinds of people. The interviewer doesn't really do a good job of picking her brain.
2008 was the Knife in the Heart for the futures of Americans
everything started to Fall apart rapidly after that year
Damn Matt is and was really the whole intellectual core of Chapo. No Matt no Chapo imo
Amber was good too but yeah Matt was the core
Amber was good solely for calling out SJW and radlib hypocrisy. On everything else, she takes the position of "what would the median noble savage Joe Rogan fan think about this" which is a completely stupid way to look at things.
@@checkdestroy it's a shame she hasn't said anything _really_ based though, because you can definitely feel she wants to whenever a woke wrecker comes up in conversation.
@@checkdestroy My sense from the podcast was that Amber's personality got defined when she was the only person from a working class or genuinely poor background among her middle class-to-wealthy Brooklyn social milieu. The "working class whisperer" thing still seems to works on them, but once you break outside that bubble, it's completely out of touch.
@@chicomojo the problem is that acculturation to this milieu has taken any vigor or novelty to her takes, it's like an immigrant from another country who's "frozen in time" at the moment of immigration while their original nation's culture has progressed
58:41 Breaks down here for me. She says Nazis created industry, she said she was deindustrialist, but thinks we're too diverse to replicate, so we should have "piecemeal" change. We need a platform, a party, an aesthetic we need it all.
19:32 ZOOT SUIT MENTIONED
It still boggles my mind that most people know the 90s swing dance song and not the style and infamous riots in LA related to them.
I find this pretty shallow. I am someone who was deprogrammed from being a Trump supporter. I think Elle Reeve's book "The Black Pill" has more insight.
6:32 It's almost comical seeing people as young as you both are put on the age old boomer-esque routine of "back in my day...". Like ironically enough its *you* who have become so chronically online and isolated in *your* weird little niche internet corners you believe young people don't do things in person anymore. Weird tbh.
lol perfect
This show is amazing!
Love amber
I love you and thiss podcast sm
goat meets goat
They do both look more goat like than any given human. Not even in a bad way. Just in a goat kinda way
The book is great but the dot connections, the real wisdom, is found in Amber's interviews. Catherine Liu's "Virtue Horders" is similar. The book is terribly academic while her interviews are far better translations into 'common' language; far more revealing and accessible.
Being cool and dangerous and hot is cool and dangerous and hot