I tried 3 point aligning for the first time tonight and I was using ASTAP. I was never able to solve a single image with it--it kept failing. It never gave me a reason. I was able to solve with All Sky though but it took forever.
Good evening Patriot Astro, Yesterday, I finally tested the plug-in in real situation, one word only, excellent! 0°00"04' on both DEC and ALT, after 10 min. Thank you very much.
Thanks for the update, I was just asking a question on the NINA FB Group about this. BTW, your audio was barely audible when you were showing the screens. Had to turn up t he volume on the computer. I can also see a big challenge when I go to align my Edge11, maybe I will toss a short guide scope on top for just the alignment purposes.
Hi Chad Nice video, as always. I have not tried this plugin yet because I have been using SharpCap PA tool for several years with great success. I will try this plugin (I am in a permanent observatory) but I have found using the QHY Polemaster camera attached to the mount itself (as opposed to using the guide camera on the OAG) to give excellent PA for imaging with my C11" at a 2800mm FL on my AP 1100 mount with no problem at all using SC within a few minutes. So, I am guessing the "tricky" aspects might be: 1) quality of the mount ; 2) where the camera is placed. I probably would not trust my OAG guide camera (ASI174mm mini) as too few stars are seen and 3) you need a night of good seeing or it gets very frustrating very quickly.
Thanks! If it's not broke, don't fix it. If you are happy with SharpCap PA, that is fine... especially if you can see north from your location. I too use the PoleMaster for PA on my 2 primary mounts and only use NINA TPPA for my portable small setup. You are right, and in general, the quality of the mount is the overriding factor. Seeing does't seem to matter too much. I can use short 1s exposures on an L filter and ASTAP for solving and as long as the seeing is good enough for visual/imaging, it works fine. Camera placement shouldn't be an issue since we are rotating around the RA axis at a consistent distance from the axis itself. Also, I definitely wouldn't use the guide cam for this process (which rules out the OAG for so many other reasons as well), but instead use the primary camera for TPPA. Great points!
Hi, I've been watching a lot of your videos which I found very useful for a complete beginner like I am. Thank you for doing this. In particular I like the clarity of the matters presented. About the TPPA: I am having trouble getting a decent picture inside the TPPA module, they come out pretty much completely white. I tried varying the bin, exposure, gain, etc, without much success (although sometimes I see tiny black dots mostly towards the corners). I believe the quality of the image explains why TPPA plate solving fails On the other hand, Imaging with the camera module (same settings as in TPPA module) results in a decent picture and plate solving/centering works fast and well. (but if I toggle autostretching to ON, then I get the same white pictures) I am stumped, don't know what to do next
@@PatriotAstro I figured it out eventually, the problem was due to the "stretch factor" being set to "1" (under Image options advanced settings). Problem went away after adjusting to 0.15
Hello, but once the polar alignment has been done, how do you synchronize the mount to ensure that the coordinates of the mount itself correspond to the coordinates resolved with plate solving? Thank you
Thought my mount was PA in NINA (< 1 degree fro both), but when I slew to coordinates, the camera is way off; I did get a warning it didn't slew far enough or something, to somehow change slew rate? but that warning went away when I next PA; what could be wrong? Used an L bracket for the camera, but that shouldn't be a problem
Chad, thanks for update. You stated that you can point in any direction, meaning your telescope but the mount still has to be facing North somewhere near Polaris? Just want to make sure I do this correctly. Thanks for you videos. Enjoy them all.
Correct, the mount (RA Axis) will ultimately be aligned with the celestial north pole via this process, so you need to still roughly polar align your tripod first by pointing at at true north. Then, run through the process with the plugin. The plugin allows you to change the direction your want the scope to point when adjusting your alignment. This means that even though you setup your mount tripod pointing at that huge tree to your north, you can still polar align using the sky to the south, or southeast, or west and get a great alignment. (It works pointing north too... just a nice added benefit that it is not required.)
I see you used guide cam and zwo cam to plate solving. Is it possible to use with this 3-star aligment iPolar cam from CEM26? Or I need to have guide lens and cam attached to use this when I don't see Polaris?
Since NINA only connect to your primary camera and only has access to that sensor, everything is done using your primary camera, including platesolving, and Polar alignment. With the three-point polar alignment plug-in, you do not need to see Polaris or have any visibility to Polaris. It will sort it out based on triangulation using multiple pictures it takes before starting up and asking you to make adjustments.
I'm running a Win 10 Home Laptop 16 Gb RAM NINA Nightime controling an iOptron CEM60 via iOpton's Commander. When I run 3PPA it goes through the 3 steps and tells me what corrections are required but whereas in your video your set-up keeps taking images and solving while you make corrections. For me for some reason at the end of the corrections display my tracking gets turned off so I have to make a correction, restart tracking and do another set of 3 plate solves to get the next correction step. Any idea as to why my tracking is being stopped? Cheers.
I've got a sky watcher star adventurer and a main camera that is not compatible with NINA. I am planning to get a guide cam and guide scope to help with polar alignment and guiding. Do you think I will be able to use the 3PPA with my setup? I just need to get it acceptably polar aligned and hope that guiding can help with the rest (for imaging at focal lengths of about 100-300mm with a micro four thirds sensor).
Sure 3PPA will work as long as the guide camera is properly aligned to the primary camera (and mount) and works with NINA. The 3PPA command even works with mounts that are not controllable as there is a switch to enable manual mount control.
Quick question. How does NINA choose where the three stars are located? I have a few large trees close to where I set up. Odds are that a random choice could fall within those non-imaging zones. PS: Great video series. All you need to do is borrow and iPolar and I think you've got the various modern methods for PA pretty well covered. Well, you could show the eyeball through the mount using a reticle too. You probably didn't because you have the PoleMaster obscuring your view there.
I avoided the manual approach to aligning just because of all the really good software options available now. I just can’t imagine doing it manually anymore. :)
If you watch the beginning of when I get to the tool, before I press ‘play’, I customize the initial pointing location which is a set of simple Alt/Az points. The distance between point 1-2 and 2-3 will be the other degree-based value I changed. I basically told it to go 50° up and rotate to I think 125° which is almost SE. Then it moves to points 2 and 3 from there. If what you select doesn’t work, just stop it and adjust the variables then start it again.
@@PatriotAstro Understood and agree. I actually still use my polar reticle in combo with SharpCap Pro. I find that a quick look through the mount usually gets me to within 3-5 arc-minutes when I start with SharpCap. I can always do that step before it's dark enough to use SC too.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks. I'll rewatch it and play around with it. I don't see myself changing from SharpCap at home but if I'm away then this method could be more useful.
Just to make sure I’m clear, this is a three “point” polar alignment, not a three “star” alignment. It goes to a point/location in the sky and then platesolves it using all of the stars that it sees in that FOV. (3 times)
thanks for the great video ,but do you think you could do the polar alignment without the reducer at fl 2032 or would that be too much do you think had a quick go the other night but conditions not great ,and i struggled any thoughts? thanks
I think it should work at a longer focal length, but it will be challenging particularly if your RA and DEC knobs are touchy. At such a long focal length, I find it easier to use a polemaster, which of course is an extra cost. You can use the other methods, but it may take a little bit longer to get it right. As an alternative, if you have an external guide scope, you can try to use that for polar alignment instead. On my SCT, I use an OAG so my focal length is the same and I don’t have that option.
All methods have degrees of accuracy and inaccuracy related to both the method AND the use of the method. Even with the polemaster, which tends to be pretty good, you can have subtle challenges aligning the stars, etc throughout the process then factor into the outcome. Then, you can also have some looseness/play in the meshing of the gears and RA/DEC nobs when adjusting those. All in all, NINA 3PPA can be very successful. If dfor some reason you want even better, you can try the PHD2 drift alignment. It take a bit to get used to it, and to complete it properly, but in clear skies, it can be very accurate.
Hi Chad, as a user of NINA I have just found your channel. May I thank you for your fabulous tutorials which are easy yo follow and give a great insight to using NINA. I Have updated to V 1.11 nightly 166 and went out to play last night with the 3 point PA. I have always used Polemaster to do my PA with hood results but love NINA's plug in now. One concern that I do have is that NINA and Polemaster don't agree. Last night I initially did two run throughs of PM and go the alignment bang on. However NINA reported PA errors of 03.55/03.21/05.10. So I did NINA 's routine getting figures of 00.02/00.09/00.09 and returned to Polemaster to see what that reported. Again PM didn't agree showing polaris to be on the edge if the dotted circle rather than centred on the cross hairs. What are your thoughts, are these differences large enough to affect my tracking, whose is more accurate or are they just a small nuance of each program which doesn't affect much overall? Please keep the videos coming, they are a great help 👏
It's difficult to say. I would first refer to your resulting tracking and images. If your tracking and images were fine as a result, I'd say it was close enough and nuance. If you find an alignment mechanism claims an accurate PA, but then the results don't reflect that, then I start to ask questions. (Of course, also remember that there are many things post-alignment that can affect tracking and images.) In general, less than 2' overall is fine if shooting away from the poles. I too target less than 1'. I too have seen discrepancies in Polemaster and other PA solutions. In PA, one time my camera was a little loose and that caused an issue, also rushing through and not precisely clicking the elements caused deviation. If you really want to validate it all, I'd use PHD2 Drift Align, but it is time consuming... All in all, if the pictures are ok, I wouldn't worry about it. :)
@@PatriotAstro Astro time is a bit scarce at the moment with poor weather but if I get time I will do a drift align with NINA & PM. Pictures have always appeared fine with PM polar alignment, I will have to see how they are with NINA PA. Thanks
Hello,in manual mode,does it have to be exactly 10 degrees or it can be approximately 10 degrees to rotate around RA axis by hand controller if measure point distance is 10 degrees? For some reason ,auto mode doesn’t work for my lxd55 with MEADE Generic ASCOM driver and NINA 2.0 beta 32bit version.it always get didn’t move far enough kind of warning messages. Thank you.
Thank you for the great video! Would you recommend using this plugin to fine-tune the polar alignment after initial polar alignment using a PoleMaster?
I think they both stand on their own pretty well. If your PoleMaster is installed correctly and is aligned with your RA axis, that alone will be enough. But... The PoleMaster requires the celestial pole to be visible. This plugin does not need to see it at all which can be quite handy at times.
You can, sure. The plugin is expecting to use your primary camera though since that is what is connected to NINA. Plus your primary camera is typically aligned with the mount better than the guide camera which can have a "cone error" based on subtle misalignment from the main camera. I have aligned with the plugin using different focal lengths if that is your concern. The longest FL that I have tested is on my C8 at a reduced ~1320mm. It worked fince but was certainly a little more touchy than trying to align at say 475mm.
When you say 'reflex' are you generically talking about an SLR of some sort that permits viewing via the viewfinder while imaging, or something else specifically? For plate solving, that process uses the primary imaging camera FOV since that is what we are trying to center/rotate/frame while solving. The guide camera is not involved in the solving process.
@@PatriotAstro Sorry, we generally say Reflex in italian, meaning a SLR🤣 i had not thought that this word could not be used in english. By the way...it the SRL able to comunicate with NINA through ASCOM? Because every single video that i've watched, ASI cameras are involved!
@@denisluzietti940 Many camera types are natively supported, and if not natively supported, ascom support will work if your camera has an ascom driver available for you to install. If you google "NINA supported equipment", you should find the 'Requirements' webpage which lists the supported camera models. Assuming your camera is supported, plate solving will work. You need to properly define your focal length and install/setup your plate solving tool, but yes, no problem.
Hi…I used the 3point polar Alignment plug-in and it works well…I was wondering what would be a good ball park value to aim for as a decent polar alignment for imaging?
Depends who you talk to. ;) If you are within 1 arc minute, you are fine for long exposures (in the 5 minute range). If actively guiding, even 1-3 arc minutes will work for long exposures. This method will definitely get you close enough.
hey im not sure how to trouble shoot this googling has produced no results when i try to do 3ppa with nina, i am getting this error message sometrhing about minimum reosolution im going to be honewts i have no idea hwere to begin ive tried changin exposure settings im using zwo asi120mm-s any help would be appreciated thanks other people have used this camera successfully
it keeps failing plate solving any assistance appreciated thanks
ASTAP used to have issues solving images of that size or smaller (the size the asi120mm puts out). You almost definitely need to update your ASTAP installation. Also, make sure you are not binning which would also contribute to this issue with that sensor chip size.
@@joshtb86 You can try Platesolve2 I guess as a next step. Go to the ASTAP webpage and at the top right there is a Checklist for Solving link. If you look at that page you will see where they mention the current version wants images at least 1280x960, which is exactly the size of the sensor on the ASI120MM-S. :) Previous to this version of ASTAP, the size requirement for ASTAP was even larger. Let me know how it turns out.
Hi chad, ive got a question for you if possible, how can i use this script without using nina nightly ? i use synchronized dithering, and like you know this option is not enable on nightly. i think anyway cheers
Hi thank you for the great video. Very helpful. one question though, I have tried this but is quite confused regarding the Circle and the X on the screen. is the X the target, and the circle is your FOV? or the other way around? Thanks
I'm going a bit off memory here... The X is the star you are trying to move into the circles. It sort of doesn't matter as long as you follow along with the onscreen left/right and up/down instructions. If you continue to follow those instructions and adjust your pointing direction up/down/left right until you are close to centered in the circles, it will work. I just try to get below 1' (1 arc-minute). As a side note, if you want a new star to be selected because you started too far off and the box is off screen, just double click a star on screen and it will use that one now.
It is available in the 1.11 nightly version. You would need to go to your options tab in 1.10 and change the update source to nightly (or install 1.11 yourself). There are other additions in 1.11 you should be aware of before moving. Watch my advanced sequencer video(s). Also, 1.11 does not yet support synchronized dithering (if you use that).
Hey, I have a noobie question since I'm just starting out with Astrophotography. Will I need a guide scope and camera to use this plugin? Or can I use my main imaging camera to do this polar alignment? This was a great video! Thanks!
Use the main imaging camera. Certainly if you have a very long focal length telescope, adjusting the knobs will provide a little bit more dramatic movement on screen. But I tested this with multiple focal lengths including my C8 and it worked fine.
I'm not sure I understand the question. It 'should' be as easy as setting your mount physically pointing toward magnetic north as close as you can, then starting the plugin. It will auto-slew and solve 3 points in the sky based on the parameters (just try the defaults first unless you need to point in an other direction due to norther obstructions). then it will tell you the error amounts so you can adjust the ra/dec knobs real-time while monitoring the error. Once it is close enough for you, just stop it and move on to your evening of imaging. IF you are talking about the index marks on your scopes axis, then no - that doesn't matter for this.
How do you select the 3 spots in the sky to slew to? You guess those from a star chart and input those coordinates manually? It would be nice if NINA had a good database of pre-determined stars built in to use for that purpose but it does not.
You just have to pick a starting position. It will automatically slew based on the parameters of the plug-in to three points a certain number of degrees apart. This allows it through plate solving to determine where you are and how to Polar align. You do not need to look at stars, or do anything else. Just click play, let it plate solve the three locations, and then adjust left right, up down as instructed. Nina does actually have a list of alignment stars as well. They are just not in the sky atlas. Go to the imaging page and click the star icon. You will get a list of common bright stars. I like to use the altitude in that list for each star to determine which one to use.
To be clear, this is not a three star alignment… This is a three point alignment. The three points can be technically anywhere in the sky because plate solving will identify them.
@@PatriotAstro o I understand that but what if it points the scope into the various trees there are around the site? There is got to be a way to tell NINA where to point at.
@@hael8680 in the plugin configuration, you can give it an alt-az (or current) starting point as well as tell it the East/west side of pier. Other configurations as well. Just start it right, or give it a good starting point and test it. If it goes to a bad location, adjust the starting point or degrees between slew.
Hi chad. I’m a long time Nina user and tried the latest polar alignment plug-in last night from my west facing balcony. I can confirm there is no way the polar alignment Nina recommend after completing its procedure was correct. I’m at 35deg lat and Nina had we winding the altitude knob all the way down to 25 deg. There’s just no way that’s right. I started the procedure at az 285* alt 55* with 15* intervals. The procedure successfully platesolved the 3 intervals without issue. Are you sure this works for the whole sky. When I’m out next I will compare it to sharpcap at the celestial pole.
Can you confirm you’ve updated to the latest 1.2 version of the plug-in? I only ask because I’ve seen it confirmed multiple times in many directions and even multiple southern hemisphere locations. Prior to the latest update to the plug-in, it was required that you start close to the Meridian. Now you should be able to go anywhere.
Thanks for confirming. That’s odd. Have you imaged on that balcony before, or was this something new since you had Nina to help you polar align? I only ask because I wonder if the balcony is sloped like many are for water runoff. 10° sounds like an awful lot… But it could be a handful of degrees potentially.
@@PatriotAstro I’ve never been able to polar align on my balcony so only planetary and visual. I’ve got it pretty close to polar aligned just through trial and error. Also… The mount is 100% level. Maybe next time you are testing could you try a western polar alignment (az280 ish ) starting about 60 deg up and working down to the horizon in 15deg steps. See if it works for you?
While the content of the video is great, the audio levels are aweful. There is a 20dB average difference (yes, I measured it) between the intro/wrapup and the voice-over content.
I agree with your findings 100%. I'm working on it. Definitely not a professional and just trying to help. Hopefully the newer videos are closer to better (for the most part). :)
I tried 3 point aligning for the first time tonight and I was using ASTAP. I was never able to solve a single image with it--it kept failing. It never gave me a reason. I was able to solve with All Sky though but it took forever.
Good evening Patriot Astro,
Yesterday, I finally tested the plug-in in real situation, one word only, excellent!
0°00"04' on both DEC and ALT, after 10 min. Thank you very much.
Great! It’s fantastic and quite easy to get going.
Thanks for the update Chad. NINA seems to get better by the day!
You might be right!
This will cut my PA time down drastically!!
NINA makes everything better! :)
Chad, I'm loving these videos. Very informative and you've got a nice straight to the point, no nonsense style. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching! I enjoy creating them and helping others, but I feel like there could be a little nonsense here and there. LOL! :)
G’day Chad
I have come across your channel & I have to admit it’s very informative
Cheers mate
Thanks! Just trying to help where I can. :)
Thanks for the update, I was just asking a question on the NINA FB Group about this. BTW, your audio was barely audible when you were showing the screens. Had to turn up t he volume on the computer. I can also see a big challenge when I go to align my Edge11, maybe I will toss a short guide scope on top for just the alignment purposes.
Long focal length gets interesting for sure. Thanks for the audio feedback… I’m working on that. Mic issues here and there. :(
Hi Chad
Nice video, as always. I have not tried this plugin yet because I have been using SharpCap PA tool for several years with great success. I will try this plugin (I am in a permanent observatory) but I have found using the QHY Polemaster camera attached to the mount itself (as opposed to using the guide camera on the OAG) to give excellent PA for imaging with my C11" at a 2800mm FL on my AP 1100 mount with no problem at all using SC within a few minutes. So, I am guessing the "tricky" aspects might be: 1) quality of the mount ; 2) where the camera is placed. I probably would not trust my OAG guide camera (ASI174mm mini) as too few stars are seen and 3) you need a night of good seeing or it gets very frustrating very quickly.
Thanks! If it's not broke, don't fix it. If you are happy with SharpCap PA, that is fine... especially if you can see north from your location. I too use the PoleMaster for PA on my 2 primary mounts and only use NINA TPPA for my portable small setup. You are right, and in general, the quality of the mount is the overriding factor. Seeing does't seem to matter too much. I can use short 1s exposures on an L filter and ASTAP for solving and as long as the seeing is good enough for visual/imaging, it works fine. Camera placement shouldn't be an issue since we are rotating around the RA axis at a consistent distance from the axis itself. Also, I definitely wouldn't use the guide cam for this process (which rules out the OAG for so many other reasons as well), but instead use the primary camera for TPPA. Great points!
I'm having a problem with NINA amd Three Polar alignment. ASTAP doesn't work anymore. Yesterday worked well
Make sure you have a long enough exposure and have enough stars on screen. Does a manual attempt at Plate Solving outside of 3PPA work?
@@PatriotAstro ASTAP works well with ATP.
Hi, I've been watching a lot of your videos which I found very useful for a complete beginner like I am. Thank you for doing this. In particular I like the clarity of the matters presented.
About the TPPA: I am having trouble getting a decent picture inside the TPPA module, they come out pretty much completely white.
I tried varying the bin, exposure, gain, etc, without much success (although sometimes I see tiny black dots mostly towards the corners).
I believe the quality of the image explains why TPPA plate solving fails
On the other hand, Imaging with the camera module (same settings as in TPPA module) results in a decent picture and plate solving/centering works fast and well.
(but if I toggle autostretching to ON, then I get the same white pictures)
I am stumped, don't know what to do next
Do you get the same image/issue directly from the imaging tab, or just in 3PPA?
@@PatriotAstro I figured it out eventually, the problem was due to the "stretch factor" being set to "1" (under Image options advanced settings). Problem went away after adjusting to 0.15
@@marcrascolnicov8050 Right, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the feedback/info!
Liked and subscribed!
Great and Welcome aboard! Clear Skies!
Thank you for these videos! Do you need a guide scope for the polar alignment or does it use your main imaging camera?
Since NINA uses your main imaging camera, this is what the 3PPA process uses. No guider needed for this.
Chad - Thanks for doing this video.
Anytime! Glad to help!
Hello,
but once the polar alignment has been done, how do you synchronize the mount to ensure that the coordinates of the mount itself correspond to the coordinates resolved with plate solving?
Thank you
Thought my mount was PA in NINA (< 1 degree fro both), but when I slew to coordinates, the camera is way off; I did get a warning it didn't slew far enough or something, to somehow change slew rate? but that warning went away when I next PA; what could be wrong? Used an L bracket for the camera, but that shouldn't be a problem
Looks like a duplicated comments - I just responded to the one on the other video. Reach out if you still have issues.
Chad, thanks for update. You stated that you can point in any direction, meaning your telescope but the mount still has to be facing North somewhere near Polaris? Just want to make sure I do this correctly. Thanks for you videos. Enjoy them all.
Correct, the mount (RA Axis) will ultimately be aligned with the celestial north pole via this process, so you need to still roughly polar align your tripod first by pointing at at true north. Then, run through the process with the plugin. The plugin allows you to change the direction your want the scope to point when adjusting your alignment. This means that even though you setup your mount tripod pointing at that huge tree to your north, you can still polar align using the sky to the south, or southeast, or west and get a great alignment. (It works pointing north too... just a nice added benefit that it is not required.)
Hi, Iam beginner. Could this tool by used with an EQ platform? I´ve no visible polaris on my balcony. Thanks.
Yes. Perfect solution for that.
I see you used guide cam and zwo cam to plate solving. Is it possible to use with this 3-star aligment iPolar cam from CEM26? Or I need to have guide lens and cam attached to use this when I don't see Polaris?
Since NINA only connect to your primary camera and only has access to that sensor, everything is done using your primary camera, including platesolving, and Polar alignment. With the three-point polar alignment plug-in, you do not need to see Polaris or have any visibility to Polaris. It will sort it out based on triangulation using multiple pictures it takes before starting up and asking you to make adjustments.
@@PatriotAstro thanks, it would be very helpful to me because from my balcony I only have good sight on south and west, so standard PA is impossible
Hello , can i use NINA to polar align and plate solve with only my DSLR as a main imaging camera?
Yes. No problem.
I'm running a Win 10 Home Laptop 16 Gb RAM NINA Nightime controling an iOptron CEM60 via iOpton's Commander. When I run 3PPA it goes through the 3 steps and tells me what corrections are required but whereas in your video your set-up keeps taking images and solving while you make corrections. For me for some reason at the end of the corrections display my tracking gets turned off so I have to make a correction, restart tracking and do another set of 3 plate solves to get the next correction step. Any idea as to why my tracking is being stopped? Cheers.
not sure.... this may be one for the Discord support side of things. :(
I've got a sky watcher star adventurer and a main camera that is not compatible with NINA. I am planning to get a guide cam and guide scope to help with polar alignment and guiding. Do you think I will be able to use the 3PPA with my setup? I just need to get it acceptably polar aligned and hope that guiding can help with the rest (for imaging at focal lengths of about 100-300mm with a micro four thirds sensor).
Sure 3PPA will work as long as the guide camera is properly aligned to the primary camera (and mount) and works with NINA. The 3PPA command even works with mounts that are not controllable as there is a switch to enable manual mount control.
Quick question. How does NINA choose where the three stars are located? I have a few large trees close to where I set up. Odds are that a random choice could fall within those non-imaging zones.
PS: Great video series. All you need to do is borrow and iPolar and I think you've got the various modern methods for PA pretty well covered. Well, you could show the eyeball through the mount using a reticle too. You probably didn't because you have the PoleMaster obscuring your view there.
I avoided the manual approach to aligning just because of all the really good software options available now. I just can’t imagine doing it manually anymore. :)
If you watch the beginning of when I get to the tool, before I press ‘play’, I customize the initial pointing location which is a set of simple Alt/Az points. The distance between point 1-2 and 2-3 will be the other degree-based value I changed. I basically told it to go 50° up and rotate to I think 125° which is almost SE. Then it moves to points 2 and 3 from there. If what you select doesn’t work, just stop it and adjust the variables then start it again.
@@PatriotAstro Understood and agree. I actually still use my polar reticle in combo with SharpCap Pro. I find that a quick look through the mount usually gets me to within 3-5 arc-minutes when I start with SharpCap. I can always do that step before it's dark enough to use SC too.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks. I'll rewatch it and play around with it. I don't see myself changing from SharpCap at home but if I'm away then this method could be more useful.
Just to make sure I’m clear, this is a three “point” polar alignment, not a three “star” alignment. It goes to a point/location in the sky and then platesolves it using all of the stars that it sees in that FOV. (3 times)
thanks for the great video ,but do you think you could do the polar alignment without the reducer at fl 2032 or would that be too much do you think had a quick go the other night but conditions not great ,and i struggled any thoughts? thanks
I think it should work at a longer focal length, but it will be challenging particularly if your RA and DEC knobs are touchy. At such a long focal length, I find it easier to use a polemaster, which of course is an extra cost. You can use the other methods, but it may take a little bit longer to get it right. As an alternative, if you have an external guide scope, you can try to use that for polar alignment instead. On my SCT, I use an OAG so my focal length is the same and I don’t have that option.
How accurate is this compared to polemaster etc
All methods have degrees of accuracy and inaccuracy related to both the method AND the use of the method. Even with the polemaster, which tends to be pretty good, you can have subtle challenges aligning the stars, etc throughout the process then factor into the outcome. Then, you can also have some looseness/play in the meshing of the gears and RA/DEC nobs when adjusting those. All in all, NINA 3PPA can be very successful. If dfor some reason you want even better, you can try the PHD2 drift alignment. It take a bit to get used to it, and to complete it properly, but in clear skies, it can be very accurate.
A mi no me funciona en lo absoluto. Tengo todo cargado en Nina y no me ayuda a hacer la alineación polar.
Hi Chad, as a user of NINA I have just found your channel. May I thank you for your fabulous tutorials which are easy yo follow and give a great insight to using NINA.
I Have updated to V 1.11 nightly 166 and went out to play last night with the 3 point PA.
I have always used Polemaster to do my PA with hood results but love NINA's plug in now.
One concern that I do have is that NINA and Polemaster don't agree.
Last night I initially did two run throughs of PM and go the alignment bang on. However NINA reported PA errors of 03.55/03.21/05.10.
So I did NINA 's routine getting figures of 00.02/00.09/00.09 and returned to Polemaster to see what that reported. Again PM didn't agree showing polaris to be on the edge if the dotted circle rather than centred on the cross hairs.
What are your thoughts, are these differences large enough to affect my tracking, whose is more accurate or are they just a small nuance of each program which doesn't affect much overall?
Please keep the videos coming, they are a great help 👏
It's difficult to say. I would first refer to your resulting tracking and images. If your tracking and images were fine as a result, I'd say it was close enough and nuance. If you find an alignment mechanism claims an accurate PA, but then the results don't reflect that, then I start to ask questions. (Of course, also remember that there are many things post-alignment that can affect tracking and images.) In general, less than 2' overall is fine if shooting away from the poles. I too target less than 1'. I too have seen discrepancies in Polemaster and other PA solutions. In PA, one time my camera was a little loose and that caused an issue, also rushing through and not precisely clicking the elements caused deviation. If you really want to validate it all, I'd use PHD2 Drift Align, but it is time consuming... All in all, if the pictures are ok, I wouldn't worry about it. :)
@@PatriotAstro Astro time is a bit scarce at the moment with poor weather but if I get time I will do a drift align with NINA & PM. Pictures have always appeared fine with PM polar alignment, I will have to see how they are with NINA PA. Thanks
Hello,in manual mode,does it have to be exactly 10 degrees or it can be approximately 10 degrees to rotate around RA axis by hand controller if measure point distance is 10 degrees?
For some reason ,auto mode doesn’t work for my lxd55 with MEADE Generic ASCOM driver and NINA 2.0 beta 32bit version.it always get didn’t move far enough kind of warning messages.
Thank you.
Thank you for the great video! Would you recommend using this plugin to fine-tune the polar alignment after initial polar alignment using a PoleMaster?
I think they both stand on their own pretty well. If your PoleMaster is installed correctly and is aligned with your RA axis, that alone will be enough. But... The PoleMaster requires the celestial pole to be visible. This plugin does not need to see it at all which can be quite handy at times.
Hello chad, can I use my guiding scope and guidingcam for this ? Thx in advance!
You can, sure. The plugin is expecting to use your primary camera though since that is what is connected to NINA. Plus your primary camera is typically aligned with the mount better than the guide camera which can have a "cone error" based on subtle misalignment from the main camera. I have aligned with the plugin using different focal lengths if that is your concern. The longest FL that I have tested is on my C8 at a reduced ~1320mm. It worked fince but was certainly a little more touchy than trying to align at say 475mm.
Hey, can Nina plate solve if i have a reflex on my main telescope and an ASI with a guidescope? Thanks!
When you say 'reflex' are you generically talking about an SLR of some sort that permits viewing via the viewfinder while imaging, or something else specifically? For plate solving, that process uses the primary imaging camera FOV since that is what we are trying to center/rotate/frame while solving. The guide camera is not involved in the solving process.
@@PatriotAstro Sorry, we generally say Reflex in italian, meaning a SLR🤣 i had not thought that this word could not be used in english. By the way...it the SRL able to comunicate with NINA through ASCOM? Because every single video that i've watched, ASI cameras are involved!
@@denisluzietti940 Many camera types are natively supported, and if not natively supported, ascom support will work if your camera has an ascom driver available for you to install. If you google "NINA supported equipment", you should find the 'Requirements' webpage which lists the supported camera models. Assuming your camera is supported, plate solving will work. You need to properly define your focal length and install/setup your plate solving tool, but yes, no problem.
Where I can find 1.11? It is not on their site. Thank you for your video
Sorry I missed this. You actually want the new 2.0 Release that is available, 1.11 rolled up into that.
Hi…I used the 3point polar Alignment plug-in and it works well…I was wondering what would be a good ball park value to aim for as a decent polar alignment for imaging?
Depends who you talk to. ;) If you are within 1 arc minute, you are fine for long exposures (in the 5 minute range). If actively guiding, even 1-3 arc minutes will work for long exposures. This method will definitely get you close enough.
hey im not sure how to trouble shoot this
googling has produced no results
when i try to do 3ppa with nina, i am getting this error message
sometrhing about minimum reosolution
im going to be honewts i have no idea hwere to begin
ive tried changin exposure settings
im using zwo asi120mm-s
any help would be appreciated thanks
other people have used this camera successfully
it keeps failing plate solving
any assistance appreciated thanks
ASTAP used to have issues solving images of that size or smaller (the size the asi120mm puts out). You almost definitely need to update your ASTAP installation. Also, make sure you are not binning which would also contribute to this issue with that sensor chip size.
@@PatriotAstro thanks . I'll try it out.
Which of the other plate solvers do you recommend for Nina if I cannot get astap to work with my camera
@@joshtb86 You can try Platesolve2 I guess as a next step. Go to the ASTAP webpage and at the top right there is a Checklist for Solving link. If you look at that page you will see where they mention the current version wants images at least 1280x960, which is exactly the size of the sensor on the ASI120MM-S. :) Previous to this version of ASTAP, the size requirement for ASTAP was even larger. Let me know how it turns out.
Hi chad,
ive got a question for you if possible, how can i use this script without using nina nightly ? i use synchronized dithering, and like you know this option is not enable on nightly. i think anyway
cheers
I don't know of a way to do this today unfortunately. If I can come up with anything... I'll let you know.
Hi thank you for the great video. Very helpful. one question though, I have tried this but is quite confused regarding the Circle and the X on the screen. is the X the target, and the circle is your FOV? or the other way around? Thanks
I'm going a bit off memory here... The X is the star you are trying to move into the circles. It sort of doesn't matter as long as you follow along with the onscreen left/right and up/down instructions. If you continue to follow those instructions and adjust your pointing direction up/down/left right until you are close to centered in the circles, it will work. I just try to get below 1' (1 arc-minute). As a side note, if you want a new star to be selected because you started too far off and the box is off screen, just double click a star on screen and it will use that one now.
@@PatriotAstro thank you. Will keep on practicing. Thanks for the advise. More power
@@guitarintune408 No problem, any time!
I do not have the plug-in icon on the left side tabs. Can you explain how to get that so I can download the plugins please?
It is available in the 1.11 nightly version. You would need to go to your options tab in 1.10 and change the update source to nightly (or install 1.11 yourself). There are other additions in 1.11 you should be aware of before moving. Watch my advanced sequencer video(s). Also, 1.11 does not yet support synchronized dithering (if you use that).
Hey, I have a noobie question since I'm just starting out with Astrophotography. Will I need a guide scope and camera to use this plugin? Or can I use my main imaging camera to do this polar alignment? This was a great video! Thanks!
Use the main imaging camera. Certainly if you have a very long focal length telescope, adjusting the knobs will provide a little bit more dramatic movement on screen. But I tested this with multiple focal lengths including my C8 and it worked fine.
@@PatriotAstro Thank you for a quick reply! I have found your videos to be really helpful!
@@JB-iz8bi Glad to help! Reach out any time.
Hi, when we do the alignment, do we have to set the mount on the indexes? Or it doesn't matter. Thanks.
I'm not sure I understand the question. It 'should' be as easy as setting your mount physically pointing toward magnetic north as close as you can, then starting the plugin. It will auto-slew and solve 3 points in the sky based on the parameters (just try the defaults first unless you need to point in an other direction due to norther obstructions). then it will tell you the error amounts so you can adjust the ra/dec knobs real-time while monitoring the error. Once it is close enough for you, just stop it and move on to your evening of imaging. IF you are talking about the index marks on your scopes axis, then no - that doesn't matter for this.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks. Awesome video.
How do you select the 3 spots in the sky to slew to? You guess those from a star chart and input those coordinates manually? It would be nice if NINA had a good database of pre-determined stars built in to use for that purpose but it does not.
You just have to pick a starting position. It will automatically slew based on the parameters of the plug-in to three points a certain number of degrees apart. This allows it through plate solving to determine where you are and how to Polar align. You do not need to look at stars, or do anything else. Just click play, let it plate solve the three locations, and then adjust left right, up down as instructed. Nina does actually have a list of alignment stars as well. They are just not in the sky atlas. Go to the imaging page and click the star icon. You will get a list of common bright stars. I like to use the altitude in that list for each star to determine which one to use.
To be clear, this is not a three star alignment… This is a three point alignment. The three points can be technically anywhere in the sky because plate solving will identify them.
@@PatriotAstro o
I understand that but what if it points the scope into the various trees there are around the site? There is got to be a way to tell NINA where to point at.
@@hael8680 in the plugin configuration, you can give it an alt-az (or current) starting point as well as tell it the East/west side of pier. Other configurations as well. Just start it right, or give it a good starting point and test it. If it goes to a bad location, adjust the starting point or degrees between slew.
Hi chad.
I’m a long time Nina user and tried the latest polar alignment plug-in last night from my west facing balcony. I can confirm there is no way the polar alignment Nina recommend after completing its procedure was correct. I’m at 35deg lat and Nina had we winding the altitude knob all the way down to 25 deg. There’s just no way that’s right.
I started the procedure at az 285* alt 55* with 15* intervals. The procedure successfully platesolved the 3 intervals without issue. Are you sure this works for the whole sky.
When I’m out next I will compare it to sharpcap at the celestial pole.
Can you confirm you’ve updated to the latest 1.2 version of the plug-in? I only ask because I’ve seen it confirmed multiple times in many directions and even multiple southern hemisphere locations. Prior to the latest update to the plug-in, it was required that you start close to the Meridian. Now you should be able to go anywhere.
@@PatriotAstro yes 1.2.0.0 and nightly #115
Thanks for confirming. That’s odd. Have you imaged on that balcony before, or was this something new since you had Nina to help you polar align? I only ask because I wonder if the balcony is sloped like many are for water runoff. 10° sounds like an awful lot… But it could be a handful of degrees potentially.
@@PatriotAstro I’ve never been able to polar align on my balcony so only planetary and visual. I’ve got it pretty close to polar aligned just through trial and error.
Also… The mount is 100% level. Maybe next time you are testing could you try a western polar alignment (az280 ish ) starting about 60 deg up and working down to the horizon in 15deg steps. See if it works for you?
@@PatriotAstro great channel btw. I’m glad I stumbled across it
While the content of the video is great, the audio levels are aweful. There is a 20dB average difference (yes, I measured it) between the intro/wrapup and the voice-over content.
I agree with your findings 100%. I'm working on it. Definitely not a professional and just trying to help. Hopefully the newer videos are closer to better (for the most part). :)