Chicago and North Western's Legacy | Mergers, Buyouts, and...Communism? | History in the Dark
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- The Chicago and North Western railroad was established in 1859 and proceeded to dominate the midwestern United States. Through a process of aggressive expansion, they managed to leverage their own dominance on the region even in the face of many different competitors. Over time, they continued on even through multiple industry downturns and eventually, the owners wished to leave railroading altogether. But instead of closing the lines or selling it to a rival, they did something quite rare among companies in order to benefit their loyal and hardworking employees.
0:00 - Intro
1:04 - The Backstory
6:38 - Expansion Into Success
10:52 - Depression Into a Stubborn Struggle
22:32 - Employee Owned
25:23 - End of the Line
"The Chicago and North Western (reporting mark CNW) was a Class I railroad in the Midwestern United States. It was also known as the "North Western". The railroad operated more than 5,000 miles (8,000 km) of track at the turn of the 20th century, and over 12,000 miles (19,000 km) of track in seven states before retrenchment in the late 1970s. Until 1972, when the employees purchased the company, it was named the Chicago and North Western Railway (or Chicago and North Western Railway Company)."
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#history #truestory #documentary
Fun Fact: CNW had a 3 foot narrow gauge operation as well. This was due to their purchasing a small narrow gauge railroad that interchanged with their main line. The Galena and Southern Wisconsin Railroad Company (G&SWRR) existed as a functioning 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge railroad from 1874 to 1880, when it was ultimately bought by the Chicago and North Western Railway (C&NW) after a series of short ownership and name changes. The railroad continued to be a narrow gauge operation until sometime in the 1900's, when it was converted to standard gauge. It was abandoned in 1933.
“A growing city needs a railway line” - totally agree.
The EMD 1995 is my favorite heritage locomotive. It's nice when I see it pop up on the various railfan sites.
It surprises me is the names of these railroads. Most companies are named after their founders like Ford, Boeing, Warner Bros, DuPont, and Kellogg’s. But the railroads were named after states, cities, or regions. I’m surprised there wasn’t a Vanderbilt Railroad.
I believe it was seen as advertising. Most railroads, when they began, were relatively small and named after the region or cities where they ran. It helped people know from the get-go where the lines went without having to look at the map. It often made less sense as railways got larger, but the names stuck. In fact that's probably partly why CSX and BNSF go by their abbreviations instead of their full names now since they're so massive.
@@HistoryintheDark Hmm….good point. Thanks.
Ref;Vanderbilt- the nickname for the NYC,and connections was just that,but it was more on Wall Street,than on Main Street! Thank you 😇! Addendum- the,"Pioneer",the Baldwin 4-2-0,was an escapee from the NYC too! The last railroad it was on,prior to the C&GU,was the Michigan Central,and that engine also was on the progenitor of the fledgling CB&Q,so that little one got to be the father of 4 different railroads! Plus,one other note,the C&NW runs LEFT HANDED ON DOUBLE TRACK,a carry-over from the doubling of track in the 1860's,and forward! Thank you for an interesting video! Thank you 😇!
I forgot about the Pere Marquette railroad.
@@donnie2832 The Pere Marquette was named after a French priest,who explored what since is known as the State of Michigan! Later became part of the C&O,then Chessie System,now CSX! Condensed history! Thank you 😇!
This is full of nostalgia for me because my father was a depot agent in Nebraska all his life and I watched the trains all the time while growing up!
Definitely my favorite midwestern railroad! I wish you mentioned the story behind why they were the only left hand running line in the US.
So, why don't you tell it
@@SimonTekConley Sorry lol. I wasn't trying to gate keep information. When the CNW double tracked their mainline, all of their stations were on the left side of the track. Rather than knocking them down and rebuilding them on the right, it was cheaper to run their trains on opposite sides like they do in England and Japan. Their engineers and firemen/conductors even sat on opposite sides of the cab compared to other North American lines. This lasted until the UP takeover.
@@91_C4_FL I grew up within 2 blocks of the C&NW Northwest branch (Paralleled the NW/Kennedy Expwy for many miles). By “left hand running” are you considering the stations being on the left going outbound or inbound?
my favorite after the IC
@@0fficialdregs I need to learn more about the IC. I'm very familiar with the Rock Island and Milwaukee Road, but I've always let that one linger in the background.
I remember CNW trains rolling though Iowa and Illinois all the time when I was a kid. Out of all the mergers that happened in the late 20th century with Class I railroads I wish CNW and Southern Pacific were still around today.
I highly agree.
I was an employee from 72-2012...and this video is rife with inaccuracies and the silly bit about "employee ownership" is simply not true. Larry Provo came up with the idea of selling the railroad to the employees.
were there any rumblings of classic excursion engines (midwestern examples include nkp 759 & 765, pere marquette 1225, milw 261, gtw 6325, cn 3254) running on your lines before the southern steam and the ns 21st century steam programs?
Agree about the inaccuracies.
And the context on how this was presented. Cool video optically.
Why not share your knowledge and elaborate on the claimed inaccuracies, rather than only criticize?
@@jackson_68 employee ownership isn't communist. State ownership is
@@Demonslayer20111 Who said anything about "communist"? Certainly not me.
You need to put the class R-1 4-6-0 into to one of your videos. The R-1 was extremely successful. The GP-7 of it's day. Pulled passenger trains, freights, commuters and did yard switching. Three still exist today, one in a museum and two being restored.
I love these little history lessons
Always informative and well researched
10/10
Plus the memes!
Awesome video 👏 youtube.com/@ejtrainvids74?sub_confirmation=1
I thought wed come to it!Having it hard a bit after the 50s and 60s but turning it around and even building new lines for coal hauling and succesfully selling themselves out to UP(Sadly this led also to the end of ATSF,BN and SP.)
BN and ATSF merge happened later than the CNW and SP merges
@@Elliottblancher Yeas however they followed (More or less)due to that!
@@Elliottblancher. Read up on James J. Hill and find out your thinking on BN is totally wrong.
Good 'ol Cheap and Nothing Wasted. We've got a lot of C&NW equipment at IRM and we're right alongside the original Chicago and Galena Union's original right of way. Great video.
I've been looking forward to this one
Being one of my favorite fallen flags as well. I think you did this the best way possible. Well done
Your take on deferred maintenance deserves a bronze plaque. Failure to maintain just makes the brown snowball even bigger when it rolls downhill....
You should do a video about the last steam operated common carrier the Crab orchard & Egytian railroad in particular #17 that last ran frieght service in 1987.
My favorite railroad too! I grew up along the C&NW, in Arlington Heights, IL. Rode a couple of generations of trains into Chicago.
This is perfect for background noise. Not only is it relaxing. But you also learn some cool stuff. Also i like the way you narrate as it is a nice mix of serius and goofing around.
I love these kinds of videos you have been doing. Any chance of videos on the Great Northern, Northern Pacific and their creative use of the CB&Q for increasing profits?
You have such good solid mini docs. Really hope you cover the st.Louis Brownsville & Mexico (Gulf Coast Line) I’d sure love to share a ton of information to make that happen
I grew up in the 1960's in Milwaukee near a CNW trestle that had a Milwaukee Road line running underneath. The CNW line was upgraded to welded track in the 1970's, and us kids were pretty amazed by the process, and by how quiet trains became afterwards. I also saw my first EOT device on those same tracks - really hated seeing the cabooses go! The Milwaukee road track on the other hand was literally falling apart. Missing spikes and bolts here and there was common. They worked on it, but not much.
Nice video! Since you already did the WP, how about doing this a series about the predecessor roads of the present UP, like the MKT, MoPac, D&RG, and SP?
Oh my god it’s my favorite railroad that’s old track (now the UP Geneva sub) runs in basically my backyard
They have got lines to the Powder River Basin it was the Fremont to Chadron Line. However the Fremont to Norfolk Line is largely forgotten.
4:03 FE&MV (Fremont Elkhorn & Missouri Valley Railroad)
Fremont Nebraska was another point where CNW would interchange with UP. As a matter of fact Fremont Nebraska still has some Artifacts from CNW on their lines.
8:53 If you ever go to Fremont Nebraska Go along Clamar Avenue there is still strong evidence of where rails used to be
1982 Fremont to Norfolk Section was abandoned. And the Fremont to West Point was sold to a Tourist railroad called FEVR (Fremont Elkhorn Valley Railroad) The railroad went Bankrupt in 2012 due to worsening track conditions and the track was removed in 2013. The equipment was to be moved to Nebraska City but Nebraska City didn't allow it so most the equipment stayed in Fremont Nebraska till finally this year equipment started being purchased by people and The CNW SW1200 #1219 is being taken Apart.
A villain railroad to a lot of people for acquiring beloved railroads like the Minneapolis & St. Louis and Chicago Great Western and then abandoning almost all of those lines. In addition, the C&NW was a big reason it took the ICC so long to rule on the proposed UP/Rock Island merger.
could you do a video on what made every railroad stand out?
Green Bay track from Apleton was finished in November 1862 during Civil War with 160th Anniversary in 11-2022 A.D.
The first SD40-2 i ran was the former C&NW 6867.
I pulled pins for the cnw and had a hat that was sprayed with oil from a sister unit years ago.
CNW passenger service ceased in 1971 when Amtrak took over. It ran freight until it was bougt out by Union Pacific The Milwaukee Road is now Canadian Pacific Now we have the 8 hr trip on the Empire builder between Chicago and the Twin Cities Sad the 1960s and 1970s "modern planes" pretty much took over rail passenger travel . It takes roughly 1 hour to fly from Chicago to Minneapolis. 😢
My dad worked on TMR as a 17-19yo back in 1946. He noted the Hiawatha Line fr Chicago to Mpls had 100mph locos that made that trip in under 5hrs! Could you imagine sleeping on that line as your RR car flew down the tracks at 100mph? Heaven ❤😂🎉
Was it AMTRAK or Metra?
ALCO DIESELS were concentrated in Green Bay, ( not just the GB&W ). With switchers like the RS27 working the paper mills and switchyards, and others: and Giant C628/c-c running North to Escanaba for the iron ore unit trains in winter, and Taconic pellets, and regular freight, plus ➕ also going South to Milwaukee on the old West Bend Sub., Because the track was rebuilt to carry these Heavy C628, and increased speeds. Also the Lake SHORE div., through Manitowoc and Sheboygan also carried Taconite unit trains when the new CNW bought new EMD SD60, and SD70, and with large coal hoppers with pellets loaded 1/2 over the wheels. And regular freight was carried on Train 180 East departing at 6:00 pmc, frequently with 5 diesel mixed with the SD60 and older GP7's now used as switchers. 180 East meets 181 West at Denmark with 180 speeding past the double semaphore by Main Street supermarket; and I have the Super 8mm Kodak home movies 🎬 🎞 🎥 🎦 📽. . Lakeshore was also used for steam with CNW 1385 4-6-0 ALCO 1907 from.MID CONTINENT RY. MUS., in North Freedom, which arrived in April 1982 for repairs in the Roundhouse in North Green Bay. But sadly CNW downgraded the Valley div., through Oshkosh, then embargoed the rest of the track to Fondulac. And abandoned miles of branches like from New London North to Shawano, and the Clintonville branch to Eland Jct. That went North to Rhinelander and the ski resorts in winter, and fishing lakes in summer. But...it changed completely in 1987 when the new F.R.V.R. was started by ITEL in San Francisco. Who reactivated the Fondulac route. But downgraded the Manitowoc line through Bellevue and Maribell to only 25, or 10 mph, still with long trains on Monday after sitting down for the weekend. But this changed yet again when WCL came in 1993, and abandoned and ripped off the central section from Denmark East to Maribel for nearly 14 miles but leaving 2 short stubs West to Green Bay: or East to Manitowoc. There was a plan to make a new shortline for steam excursions. But the WCL had the DNR build the trail; and the feed mill in Denmark was greatly Expanded with Giant grain bins over the site of the old tracks. Later in 2003 it was merged into C.N. BUT last year in 2022 it was unmerged into the HLCX shortline family. There also are many plans FOR AMTRAK to come back after the past 52vyears when the last 400 was stopped on Friday, April 30, 1971. Especially for Packer Football Excursions to Chicago Bears 🐻, due to the long rivalry since 1919; because the G.B. PACKERS are the Only team of the N.F.L that doesn't have access to Amtrak and other excursions. Happily in 2021 we made plans to run The N.E.W. GREEN BAY 400, using original 1956 bilevel coaches, and EMD Diesels like F7, and E8a. Very soon, "ALL ABOARD THE N.E.W. 400!!!!". HIGHBALL !!-! HI IN APRIL 2023A.D. HAPPY EASTER AND RESURRECTION SUNDAY OF JESUS CHRIST 🙌!!!!! GLORY ALLELUIA!!!!! AMEN ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏!!!
The alcos were my fave in all Midwest 1949 on we had bunch in MSP in the 1950-60s👋
Love my alcos
WAIT! Heineman raided the assets to create NW Industries. He was the champ of deferred maintenance!
My friend worked 4 come 36 yrs...been in MSP since I was born in 1949 and a favorite of railfans...at end of his career,he said come meant" cheap ¬hing wasted" a perspective till Uncle Pete buyout 👋
Yo you should make a history video about CNW 1385 just like how you did 5629. Idk if you knew this, but the Chicago and Northwestern actually had their own steam program during the 1980s’s, using 1385.
What happened to it
@@fanofeverything30465 There was an insurance crisis that messed things up, especially the CNW’s operations
Actually, the most notable passenger service of CNW was with traditional Overland Route partner Union Pacific - an agreement that lasted 75 years before the "Big Switch" on October 30, 1955 when UP switched the "Cities" trains from CNW to MILW for the Chicago - Omaha segment.
My first Lionel train set was a Chicago and North Western 4-4-2 Atlantic passenger train. And now they’re my third favorite railroad (sorry, DRGW and SP take one and two)
C&NW will always be my favorite. Born and raised in Chicago about 2 blocks from CNW NW line. However, I lived near Denver and DRGW is also one of my top three… followed by SP as I’ve lived in California prior to its being absorbed into UP. Favorite engines: The SP cab-forward steam engines, will always be right up there with the Big Boy and Challenger.
I have met one of the experienced employees
There was an old dash 9 painted in cnw livery at the up butler yard outside of Milwaukee. I think they still use it for local freight trains
Was or Is?
Nope... it's in storage, most likely will never run again.
Great video. My only observation is the continual reusing of the same footage over again. Great information..
You make no mention of Larry Provo, who became President of NorthWestern after NWI Industries divested the Railroad. He was the one who first applied to get C&NW into the Powder River basin. Then when the ICC told him he could go in for half of BN's line, told BN's Lou Menk that C&NW would pay cash for C&he's half. Menk having seen the buyout as having taken all of C&NW's money couldn't believe that they could pull it off. Menk cried foul when UP paid for C&NW to go to the Powder River.
This Provo yard in Milwaukee.
Did you know that Chicago and Northwestern had a steam program for a short while?
The nelson cutoff was used for running steam traffic.
Are u going to cover the southern Pacific rise and fall that would be great.
One of my favorite railroads.
Your videos are awesome.
I would like you to do a video featuring the following locomotives: the JNR Class D51, JNR Class C62, DRG Class 05, DRB class 52 (kriegslok) and NSB Class 49 (Dovre Giant).
Great video! You can still see the C&NW logo on some of the UP/Metra lines around Chicago! Just a couple pronunciation corrections: Elgin = "EL-JIN", schooner = "skoo-ner".
Would you like to talk about the New York Central and Pennsylvania Railroads in the future? You don’t have to, but I’m just saying, if you talked about Penn Central and New Haven, I think it’d be only fair that you talk about PC’s big predecessors.
he did, but he should make the aftermath video
@@cykablyatman6242 WDYM he did? I don’t see any NYC or PRR videos out of him anywhere.
This was his Penn Central video:
ua-cam.com/video/nhGk0uQTcIc/v-deo.html
@@ohioandnortheastern I know he did Penn Central, but what of individual ones for NYC or PRR? He only mentioned both railroads were struggling in the 60’s, and it led to them merging. He never mentioned both of them in that much detail
The CNW made some weird choices in Wisconsin from the 70s onward trying to buy the GB&W with the MILW and SOO just to screw over the BN offer only to backfire when the MILW went bankrupt and when they sold some of there lines in eastern Wisconsin to the FRVR with that being a complete disaster for both railroads with that being a hole different rabbit hole to go though
The Northwestern couldn’t beat any competition so they tried to buy all competition.
The city trains didnt leave because of deferred maintainance , Heineman wanted more of a share of the profits because CNW did all the maintainance of the trains in Chicago and all the UP did was carry them from CNW to SP who did the work on the other end,so they moved to Milw who did it for the old agreement.
Interesting: UP acquired CNW in 1995. They acquired SP in 1996.
This is so sad I cried a little 😢😢😢😢
My city almost got a C&NW branch, but instead we got our own shortline (The ahnapee and western)
Of course, I enjoyed that history lesson. Thanks for posting.
Forgot they owned the superior coal company in illinois.suplied their coal.i also believe they owned part of the consolidated coal companies in illinois and iowa
Day one of asking for L&N Video
Good video..... you need to do my home road Missouri Pacific
Hey Darkness, since you've covered quite a few American fallen railroads, why not cover some British ones sometime? I mean, you did talk about BR's ill-fated Modernization Plan. If you ever do cover a British fallen flag, I know a great one to start with, the Somerset & Dorset Railway.
He already cover about BR Modernization plan
@@agungheryadi4226 If you read my comment, you'll see that I mentioned. I was talking about other fallen British railways, like the aforementioned Somerset & Dorset.
I've heard about that railway 🛤 What happened to it
@@fanofeverything30465 It was one of the many victims of the Beeching Axe for starters.
@@DanielChannel57 What do you mean for starters
0:47 9:58 those are Chicago & Northwestern E class pacifics.
they were actually seen pulling the CNW's green and yellow bi level cars on commuter trains in their later years as seen here 11:30
*another good obscure class of pacifics*
7:54 8:32 the H-1 Northerns😎 *these were among the biggest steam engines on the Chicago & Northwestern.*
12:29 E2a pacifics were the magnum opus of the CNW😌👌 they were really reliable, and one of those numbered 2908 had a unique marslight angled at the sky
Why didn't you cover the Crandall cabs? That was a unique financial saving idea
ONE OF MY FAVORITES!!!!!!
fun fact: there were 2 CNW locomotive that are in service until 2017/2018
What do you think about making a video about the split up of Contrail; and the state of north east freight railroads in the 21st century?
*Conrail
*chemtrail ?
@@jackson_68 Ha ha 😂 good one lol 😆
11:15 I just love shots of trains like that
So, what is next? The Reading? The Missouri-Kansas-Texas? The Denver & Rio Grande Western? The Southern? All are good ones.... (Do the Katy first, though!)
Chicago and Northwestern number 175 is being restored by the Steam Railroading Institute
The Chicago/Northwestern Railroad passed through Shakopee MN throughout all the years I was growing up. The rail line ran lengthwise through town parallel to the Minnesota river, about 300 yards south of the river channel. The CNW had a right-of-way agreement that regulated the speed through town to be under 25 mph, the number of crossing streets, and the volume of the horns at nighttime. I will always remember how memorable the night time subdued horn reports were. During summer time it was most unique to hear the softened horn reports at each crossing street, as the freight consists of grain hoppers and tank cars rolled through. Too bad the Democrat unions killed the company.
Worked on the line when all the grade crossings were being renewed and we had a ten mph speed restriction through all the crossings took a long time to get a 140 car train through town and traffic was stacked up on hwy 13.
Right its the democraticunions fault . Management had nothing to do with it lol. There are republicans in unions too.try not to sou d so uninformed by blaming politics for everything wrong.
Can you talk about the reading next?
C&NW was approached by the DRGW + SP to run a flim flam on the UP. Turns out, UP didn't make it to Chicago, they relied on the C&NW friendly connection. The Rio Grande Industries company figured this out, and they approached C&NW, "You want to make a lot of money?". The two companies made it look like they were thinking of merging. Enraged, UP bough them both for way too much money, then proceeded to rip them apart. They even burned the D&RGW and SP company records in Denver.
I agree. I Miss CNW
aside from the Illinois central, this is my second favorite railroad
Yeah I like Chicago Northwestern the Green in the yellow is awesome but my favorite Fallen flag is the Denver & Rio Grande Western good job Darkness
Many of those GP7's & such lasted till the UP merger. The MoPac mindset had taken over the UP by that point and if you put an ex-Mopac GP15 next to a CNW GP7 or GP9 the CNW Units looked and ran better mechanically. CNW actually maintained there's because they didn't want to waste money on new 4 axle power for branch service.
Probably just me, but it seems like there has been increasing time in between uplands. Are you ok, or is this just me?
Do the Missouri Kansas Texas railroad also known as the Katy
22:17 LOL! :^)
You said Elgin wrong.
Milwaukee Road RULES! ✊🏻😉
I know this may be a hot take but; REAL heritage units are steam locomotives
PSR = Deferred Maintenance + Labor Cuts
02:05 schooner = SKOO-ner
Make me proud of these lads.
if the cnw was smart, they should of sold those branchlines to interested buyers
My grandpa worked on this railroad
Elgin is pronounced EL-gin. Sorry, that bothered me. Other than that, great video
All my kids were born in Elgin.
DUDE! It is EL JIN, not GIn
CNW, cheap and nothing wasted
Deferred maintenance. Lookin at you Norfolk Southern.
You're mispronouncing livery...it sounds more like l iv(if) er e
That was a great video and I love the communist bit.
22:11
The last of the grangers.
Is this Richard Simmons narrating? 😢
Communism? On my railroad? It's more likely than you think.
Elgin is pronounced elgyn not elgen.
It’s pronounced eljin
The memes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:17 bejesus
🤣😂🤣😂.... communist cat .. communist railroad.. that's sooo good
Hey, please pronounce livery correctly. It sounds like liver the abdominal organ. I cringe when you say it like alive.
^^^^What he said!!!
It's probably an accent thing
I'm from Glenn Ellyn I'm 60 now and a very old old man and I remember . I'm kidding yes I remember the race track every 5 min the gates were going down CNW : green, medium yellow black red and white constantly
I love Communism ❤️
Ok, but socialism tho
F u c k y o u and communism/socialism
@Dulaman they are basically the same thing, except Socialism is more democratic, but i love both equally
Would somebody teach him how to say, "Livery"! ˈliv(ə)rē