From Jack Wood on PBNation: "PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE SETTINGS POSTED ABOVE WILL NOT BE THE SAME FOR YOUR GUN!!!! EVERY GUN IS DIFFERENT. YOU MUST FIND YOUR OWN SETTINGS THAT WORK BEST FOR YOUR GUN!! Jack" A note to make that wasn't mentioned in the video, adjustment of the HPR output will influence the output capabilities of the LPR.
+Erlend Ruud lol. +Wizzy Ace The LVR is one of those Special edition guns that see a limited run. In terms of value, I think it's there it since it'll ship with a damn good barrel kit and it's decently lighter (though not by a lot). The rest is indeed just luxury compared to the LV1.1 but still, idea that you shouldn't get something nice and luxurious for yourself because someone on the internet told you the used market is better is non-sensical. I say do as you please, if you have an itch for the gun you'll be happy you went for it, it simply does not disappoint. +russiancommy The Shaft FL is very good. Not as light at the plain DW barrels but at least you get a proper length control bore instead of the shorter freak inserts. Anyway, 75% talk about barrels is sensational. There are only three things that affect performance that truly change from barrel to barrel: -Weight -Efficiency, and this one is purely determined by control bore caliber and length -How well the porting reduces sound Everything else, including accuracy is just marketing jargon or someone's sensational opinion. Fortunately the Shaft FL kit does all three things very very well.
Just pre-ordered an LV1.6, and this helped me understand the fundamentals of tuning an LV; here's to hoping you put out an updated guide for the latest revision when it gets here! Appreciate the content man!
This is a Phenomenal video, great insight. I am so glad you added the Light Rammer, cause I have not seen any video's of anyone using the Light Rammer or Tuning with the Light Rammer. Thank you!
Just wanted to say your my favorite UA-cam host for paint ball knowledge and reviews, but JUST FREAKING AWESOME the difference when i tuned my vamped lv1.5 to you Mad Man setting. Wholly crap what a difference, from factory’s tune. Totally turned my lv in to a chain saw. Honestly thank you for your time and effort on the videos. Keep it up my good man!!!!
Hey Madman you know so much about paintball markers and how they operate. Would you mind making a video explaining some of the necessities/mechanics behind the internals. For example: HPR and LPR whats the difference between the two? All I know is that they both are required to regulate operating pressure, but how do they do that and whats the difference between the two? And why do some markers only have HPR but no LPR? Also, Solenoid. All I know is that the solenoid helps to divert air through the marker, but how does it do it and why do cheap solenoids break down so ez and what makes the difference between a good/cheap solenoid. And of course poppet vs. Spool why are poppets always considered more air efficient ect. There are plenty of other things but im sure you get the point, if you could make some videos breaking these things down for us simple folk that would be great!
I know this is an older video but I just bought a LV 1.6. I'm trying to find a LPR pressure gauge and am having a very hard time. Anyone know where they might still sell them?
Thinking of buying an LVR, but wanted to ask what people mean when they say that the LV shoots difference? My issue where i live there no possibility to go and try the marker, i own a DM14 and before that a DM12.
well then I have put 80k shots through my lv1 and just dwell tuned it with heavy ram and it's dumb smooth pretty plug and play and changes in temperature or air pressure can affect performance that's why I prefer close to factory settings
Season's greetings, Madman. Just picked up a new LVR and I'm having trouble having it keep its pressure. I started off with factory settings as the the manual and you video state, cold fill 68/4500 pro V2 shimless tank filled to 3k, and underbored graffiti paint. First shot over the chrono was hot at 310, then 302. Adjusted the reg so it shot a few over the chrono at 285, 290, 288. Thought I was home free to get out and play just to start breaking her in but when pulling the trigger a few more times, velocity plummeted to 210, 202, 189. Any glaring errors on my end? should I tinker with the LPR as well? SFRs are set to factory. I'm obviously a noob when it comes to poppet teching and I really want to get into enjoying this marker. Just want to get out there and get a feel for it before I start exploring options you've presented in this awesome post. Thanks.
You don't want to be underboring, you want to basically have the ball fall out of the barrel with little to no effort applied. In addition, regarding your dropoff, change the lpr piston oring from a 13nbr70 to a 12nbr90. You may need to buy a pe oring kit, mine had like 6 of them. There's a large number of PBN forums regarding that issue. Best of luck.
Hey madman, appreciate another LV_ tuning vid, and your videos are always detailed and descriptive. This one was a bit scatter brained. No disrespect, I'm just having a hard time following it. What is the step by step process without a pressure tester? Does it vary based on the shot you're trying to achieve? If so, maybe do a step by step walk through of how you tuned the marker to the 3 shot types you list at the end. Again, your videos are excellent, just thought this one could be a bit more step-oriented.
Try watching the video again completely ignoring the pressure tester segment. The point of the tester is to skip the portion of the process where you find the LPR "sweet spot." Basically to avoid not having enough pressure and have incomplete cycles, drop off, blowback, etc. and also to avoid running pressures that are too high that will not only make the gun 'kickier,' but also put unnecessary stress in the system. So yeah, the LPR pressure tester's purpose is to make that process easier and quicker.
Seems a little different from how we would tune he older egos. We would start with factory dwell, then lower the lpr till the gun started having issues cycling. Then turn the lpr up to where it cycles fine, then use the hpr for velocity adjustment and use the dwell adjustment to increase consistency. Looks like on this vid the dwells pretty high since you can see the gasses still blowing well after the ball has left the barrel leading to inefficiency. On an ideal dwell you will see the gasses almost rise straight up following a shot instead of blowing clouds forward. Ps. Also following large HPR adjustments like going from tournament fields with a 300fps max to a recball 270/280 limit the LPR would need re tuning if it was set to minimum operating pressure at 295fps.
A couple things here: I mentioned early on that we are tuning to very specific shot types here and very clearly stated that it's a bit of a side-step from the factory instructions. If anything this should just prove how versatile the LV platform can be, but the same can be done with an Ego 11 (with different results obviously). For example, it's pretty much impossible to hit 20bps ( even though don't know why anyone would need it, maybe a heavy gunner in the UWL) with the factory dwell setting. As a matter of fact, you'll waste a ton of air if you have a fast forward stroke and ram the rammer into the valve for an extra 4-5 ms, and that's just counting dwell time, it'd be even longer if you consider pneumatic delay. So please understand, the choices made are very deliberate and objective. Second, about efficiency. The massive clouds don't mean much. Maybe you don't live in a tropical and humid area to regularly see this, but as humidity goes up, the more dense your muzzle clouds will be when air decompresses. It was quite rainy that day. You are right in a sense though, there is a way to observe excess air consumption by looking at the muzzle cloud; but it has to do with whether or not the cloud hangs at the muzzle after the ball flies through or if it continues to be blown, you can see quite clearly in the slow-mo that the cloud just floats at the muzzle after the shot. Also, look at the bolt pin: it begins its rearward stroke before the ball exits the barrel. THAT is the most important element in efficiency tuning, opening and closing the valve as soon as possible. And a tiny note about rec vs. tournament velocities. It doesn't apply to every field, all the fields I've been to have a cap of 299 for all forms of play, but in the case that someone does need to play below 280, all they have to do is tune the marker to that velocity. I appreciate the viewership and apologize for the long reply, but I just want it to be clear that every step taken in this video had a very clear purpose and I kept every single factor in mind.
Yeah I’m not in a tropical environment but it still gets pretty hot and humid during the summer. I forgot at the beginning you said you were over boring which will also add to extra exhaust gas blowing forward. Like running a .693 barrel on an old school ego. Here for recball they usually limit to 260-280 for indoor on a field that has noobie renters. Then 280 for an indoor BYOP/owners field, and 280+ for almost all outdoor, and 300 for tournaments and house leagues. So there’s a lot of tuning for different velocities here. Most fields say the limits are due to insurance but I doubt that since everyone’s signed their life away in a waiver. Probably more them catering to the birthday parties and renters so they don’t get huge welts and bruises on people kids. Lol. At most of the outdoor speedball fields they aren’t strict chronoing and most players are closer to 300 then the 280 limit. It’s a double edged sword at those fields though since you always get a few assholes shooting well above 300 leaving softball size bruises on people lol.
Well you might be able to go 2/6 and raise the lpr alittle bit to make the bolt cycle alittle faster.. could always go onling and buy a new one.. i havnt played around with the heavy rammer yet
Just turn your SFR. That's all the GEO needs. It's designed to be more "pick up n' play" than the ego. If you need to do ROF tuning, Eclipse already made a very well made guide explaining that. Look for it in the "planeteclipseTV" channel.
I'm a new lv1.1 owner and this vid is simply RAD! Thanx so much for making it....after using the g6r for years this is definitely helpful... P.S. no pun towards the g6r I still have 2 of them and I think mine shoots better the any PE gat....lol...IMO
No, tuning is entirely optional! Think of it as the equivalent of calibrating the colors on a TV/Monitor, tuning fan curves for a cooling solution or overclocking a processor. Yes, you can tune so poorly that these products become unusable, but it's unlikely that you'll damage something permanently; in the exact same way, if you're unsure, they tend to run perfectly fine out of the box.
crash86ed because with stacked tube guns the back pressure actually pushes the bolt back unlike most well designed spools where the bolt is sort of balanced forward(ish). You need to provide a significantly greater amount of force behind the bolt/rammer to fight the blowback and hold the bolt forward for a clean firing stroke. If you have less back pressure pushing the bolt back you will require less pressure behind the rammer to hold the bolt forward and as an effect, a softer cycling gun.
I found my perfect setting for a perfect shot, i set my sfr 3/5 but after a few shots, the barrel become very cold and I break the balls. have you any ideas?
It is normal for barrels to chill when you shoot. This happens when there is rapid decompression of air. What I'm concerned about is that you're holding the poppet open for much more time than you have to (thus releasing more air and chilling the barrel more than is normal). Anyway, let's simplify our troubleshooting. Before we think there's a problem with the gun breaking paint, let's try a fresh batch of good paint and see if the gun breaks that. Sometimes when paint turns bad it gets mushy, in other cases the shell can actually just deform and if it's brittle it has a greater chance of breaking in the loader and gun.
I tested 3 cases of paint differents and 3 barrels(shaft fl, boomstick,freak), same thing all time. when you saying "you're holding the poppet open for much more time than you have to (thus releasing more air and chilling the barrel more than is normal)". what do you recommand?decrease the Lpr or the dwell?
hello madman, i had a quick question for you. I tuned my lv1 to be consistent within 4-5 fps of my desired rate which is 280fps. However, it seems every say tenth ball the fps will be about 270 it will drop about 10 fps, then go right back to shooting within that 4-5 fps. so my question is, is that normal, and if it is not what should i do to fix it? I played with both the lpr and dwell but when i turn it up or down anymore it seems to be falling way out of the parameters. Thanks.
jeff Goldblum that doesn't sound like it's bad since +/- 10 is good for a stream. I will suggest cleaning the gun entirely first if you haven't already, then to work with your HPR. This sounds like it's a slow chamber recharge rate, higher pressure from the HPR should recharge it faster. Let me know about your results
Yes that seemed to fix the problem for the most part. it is all within 6 fps up and down. Thank you for the info. Do you have any plan on tuning a macdev clone 5? just got one the other day and would love to see what you would be able to do with it.
Well, for any LV you can't just copy & paste the settings on wherever you'd like because the paint, climate, and gun tolerances change for each use case. What you can do is repeat the system and come up with your own settings (which you can later just quickly set and fine tune a little) that lean toward the use-philosophy you're going for.
@@landonp4726 The solenoid is basically a switch that dictates where air/pressure goes, that's clear, but for one inlet to fill the other has to empty and the SFRs basically control how fast this happens. Imagine a syringe (hopefully without a needle) full of air, depress it with your finger covering the nozzle part way vs depressing it freely. Notice how fast you can empty the air from the syringe in one vs the other? That's exactly what happens in your marker with every actuation (twice, once for the forward stroke and again for the rearward stroke), a restricted SFR setting cushions the rammer's stroke but limits its momentum meaning you'll have a less violent action but that also means a softer strike on the valve. For the rearward stroke it's similar, you don't want it to return so fast that the action is violent but you also don't want it to return so slow that it leaves the firing valve open for too long and also extends the mechanical dwell to the point where paint feeding is unreliable (because remember, paint only feeds into your breech if the bolt is completely at rest). By tuning all you're doing is finding the sweet spot where you're not striking the valve too hard where it's a harsh action but also not too soft to where you're not getting a clean strike.
Mostly, yes. You'll have to figure out settings for that particular solenoid, though. The 1.6 solenoid is more reliable and longer-lasting but is indeed slightly slower.
@The madman lv1.1 or 160r also is the lv1.1 that finicky or is al this tuning just to get every last bit of preformance out of it thx just subscribed . going to be buying either soon
Hey there. I have an lv1 with rotar, heavy rammer, full sfr 7s both front and back and dwell at 16.3. I get consistent shots but I can't get over 14bps. Played with pressures and I can get it lower than 14, but can't get over that. I used to play with a dye dam with rotar and I do heavy gunning on my team. I wanted to get to the 20bps range like my defender which I feel at 100ft and wind gives me the coverage to ensure I lock someone behind a bunker while we get a law rocket or a runner into position. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?
Hi there Jesus, the combination of the heavy rammer and a high dwell time is what's giving you issues. I'm sure that if you swap the light rammer, keep the SFRs at 10/10 and drop the dwell you'll easily hit around 20 bps.
The Madman :. Thank you! I lost the light rammer but clearly it's the missing link. I will order and post results once I receive it. BTW great video especially in better understanding the Dynamics of the marker.
Please explain to me how back pressure goes back into the gun. Underboring allows you to use less pressure to push the ball through the barrel therefore making the gun more efficient, not so much needed for speedball, but essential for scenario players.
Because there is a tight seal around the ball, all the pressure is trapped between the bolt and ball looking to escape through the path of least resistance. This means the pressure will push both the ball and the bolt until one clears far enough to alleviate the pressure or break the seal (in this case it's obviously until it breaks the seal). Naturally it will be the ball, but the bolt can be pushed back just enough to the point that some of the pressure is released up through the feed neck. Blowback guns use this exact same principle to re-cock on the sear. Most spool valve guns aren't really affected by this since the bolts are sort of pneumatically latched forward since the only way to push the bolt back on those is through the sail. Also, yes, under-boring will be more efficient and will let you run a lower HPR pressure but your LPR pressure needs to be high enough so that the blowback doesn't push the bolt back. Hope that makes sense.
The path of least resistance would be the porting in the barrel, therefore there should be no pressure on the bolt itself, which is also connected to the rammer, that minute pressure is not going to push the bolt and the rammer back enough to affect performance that much. Also, feednecks are vented for this reason, the seal between the feedneck and your hopper isn't airtight so I find this a little tough to swallow.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the efficiency thing btw. The pressure in the breech doesn't know that its quickest exit is the barrel's porting, that's why it pushes everything until it's exhausted. But you seem pretty confident that no pressure pushes against the bolt. Watch at 9:12. I want to know what you think is doing that if it isn't blowback. There's a good 8 inches the ball needs to travel before pressure is relieved at the porting. While that happens, air pressure is still pushing both ways trying to make it out. Which brings me to another point that you brought up, the rammer. Since the rammer is connected to the bolt, they are a single unit and whatever pressure pushes against the bolt also pushes the rammer (and the rammer is also receiving an intensified push from the blast because of the difference in surface area). There's a reason that ultra light aluminum rammers and über light shaved off bolts don't always work well. Heavy steel is used to hold that momentum long enough for all the air required to be released and the pressure So again, yes, under boring lets you operate the HPR at a lower pressure but you still need enough pressure behind the rammer to hold it forward for the longevity of the shot. Quick recap, you can drop your LPR all you want as long as the rammer and bolt are held by a stronger force than the shot can produce to resist blowback.
Thanks for the explanation, while I know blow back is a part of the way this gun operates overall, I mean essentially it's a more elaborate spyder, just like Timmies and Autocockers, etc but I have never had this issue with my LV1. Keep up the great video's tho ...
Thanks for this explanation because the overboring part really threw me for a moment there! As you say, with my clone I can run a lower pressure when I underbore. Besides the LV, what other guns would I want to overbore vs underbore to achieve lower operating pressure?
Its according to what factors are at hand for the most part. More than likely not because things like paint, the bore size of your barrel, and the pressure of your tank (assuming you only use 1 and its the same one all the time) wont change due to the environment you're in so you should not have to tune for every time. The only time you would truly need to tune your gun again is seasonal change. In summer you can mostly run the gun however you want (most people go for as smooth as possible for the most enjoyable shot) but in winter, its best to run the gun closer to factory stock as the conditions have changed and the factory settings will make sure your guns runs reliably as possible. Hope this helped!
Minute 9:27 I actually hit me face (bottom of my eye) while chronoing my gun with out my push mask, got hit really bad Pictures of my eye are in my instagram mr_suricato Great video btw
From Jack Wood on PBNation:
"PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE SETTINGS POSTED ABOVE WILL NOT BE THE SAME FOR YOUR GUN!!!!
EVERY GUN IS DIFFERENT. YOU MUST FIND YOUR OWN SETTINGS THAT WORK BEST FOR YOUR GUN!!
Jack"
A note to make that wasn't mentioned in the video, adjustment of the HPR output will influence the output capabilities of the LPR.
how do you like the lvr barrel
The Madman I have enough for a LVR,.. should I get it even though I have a 160r?
nononono, if you really want an lv, get a used lv1 or 1.1, the lvr is basically no better.
^^^I agree but the barrel system seems amazing I hope it gets released individually
+Erlend Ruud lol.
+Wizzy Ace The LVR is one of those Special edition guns that see a limited run. In terms of value, I think it's there it since it'll ship with a damn good barrel kit and it's decently lighter (though not by a lot). The rest is indeed just luxury compared to the LV1.1 but still, idea that you shouldn't get something nice and luxurious for yourself because someone on the internet told you the used market is better is non-sensical. I say do as you please, if you have an itch for the gun you'll be happy you went for it, it simply does not disappoint.
+russiancommy The Shaft FL is very good. Not as light at the plain DW barrels but at least you get a proper length control bore instead of the shorter freak inserts. Anyway, 75% talk about barrels is sensational. There are only three things that affect performance that truly change from barrel to barrel:
-Weight
-Efficiency, and this one is purely determined by control bore caliber and length
-How well the porting reduces sound
Everything else, including accuracy is just marketing jargon or someone's sensational opinion.
Fortunately the Shaft FL kit does all three things very very well.
Just pre-ordered an LV1.6, and this helped me understand the fundamentals of tuning an LV; here's to hoping you put out an updated guide for the latest revision when it gets here! Appreciate the content man!
Ive seen a lot of tuning guides and videos, but yours are the best. Especially for those of us who have no idea what we're doing.
@Can't Get Right, Would love to see an updated video on running LV2. 🙏
This is a Phenomenal video, great insight. I am so glad you added the Light Rammer, cause I have not seen any video's of anyone using the Light Rammer or Tuning with the Light Rammer. Thank you!
Just wanted to say your my favorite UA-cam host for paint ball knowledge and reviews, but JUST FREAKING AWESOME the difference when i tuned my vamped lv1.5 to you Mad Man setting. Wholly crap what a difference, from factory’s tune. Totally turned my lv in to a chain saw. Honestly thank you for your time and effort on the videos. Keep it up my good man!!!!
I really appreciate the clarification on proper over bore. So many people get that wrong! Do the bore match blow test and then 1 size larger
that gun rules and so soft sounding love it
Great video Madman, Very in depth tuning guide! Thumbs up
Hey Madman you know so much about paintball markers and how they operate. Would you mind making a video explaining some of the necessities/mechanics behind the internals.
For example: HPR and LPR whats the difference between the two? All I know is that they both are required to regulate operating pressure, but how do they do that and whats the difference between the two? And why do some markers only have HPR but no LPR?
Also, Solenoid. All I know is that the solenoid helps to divert air through the marker, but how does it do it and why do cheap solenoids break down so ez and what makes the difference between a good/cheap solenoid.
And of course poppet vs. Spool why are poppets always considered more air efficient ect.
There are plenty of other things but im sure you get the point, if you could make some videos breaking these things down for us simple folk that would be great!
check out zdspb.com and warpig.com. They have good explanations and zdspb has great animations showing how different parts work.
Gosh, I'm late to this one, lol. That's a great idea for a video. I'll see if I can get to it this summer!
This is a fantastic video, well done. Also thanks for sharing your presets
I know this is an older video but I just bought a LV 1.6. I'm trying to find a LPR pressure gauge and am having a very hard time. Anyone know where they might still sell them?
Super Stancy Custom there you can buy
Your knowledge is outstanding. Thank you!
Thinking of buying an LVR, but wanted to ask what people mean when they say that the LV shoots difference? My issue where i live there no possibility to go and try the marker, i own a DM14 and before that a DM12.
Excellent job! Thanks for posting!!
well then I have put 80k shots through my lv1 and just dwell tuned it with heavy ram and it's dumb smooth pretty plug and play and changes in temperature or air pressure can affect performance that's why I prefer close to factory settings
Jeez wish you could tune my lv's madman. Was using my 1.5 this past weekend but I was barely getting 6 pods before going from 4k to
Madman! Where can I purchase a pressure tester like the one you are using here? (the Violent Series LPR Pressure Tester?)
What would you recommend for the tank out put pressure? I'm running the madman shot with my tank at 450 opp
Putting the SFR down to 1 for a smoother will affect something if I play at 10.5 bps ramp ? (consistency, smooth with the paint, ...)
When can we get a lv 1.6 video??? Can u call or txt me
Season's greetings, Madman. Just picked up a new LVR and I'm having trouble having it keep its pressure. I started off with factory settings as the the manual and you video state, cold fill 68/4500 pro V2 shimless tank filled to 3k, and underbored graffiti paint. First shot over the chrono was hot at 310, then 302. Adjusted the reg so it shot a few over the chrono at 285, 290, 288. Thought I was home free to get out and play just to start breaking her in but when pulling the trigger a few more times, velocity plummeted to 210, 202, 189. Any glaring errors on my end? should I tinker with the LPR as well? SFRs are set to factory. I'm obviously a noob when it comes to poppet teching and I really want to get into enjoying this marker. Just want to get out there and get a feel for it before I start exploring options you've presented in this awesome post. Thanks.
You don't want to be underboring, you want to basically have the ball fall out of the barrel with little to no effort applied. In addition, regarding your dropoff, change the lpr piston oring from a 13nbr70 to a 12nbr90. You may need to buy a pe oring kit, mine had like 6 of them. There's a large number of PBN forums regarding that issue. Best of luck.
Where do I get that pressure tester?
Question about Lv1 have you ever run into the BOLT PIN popping up after each shot. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Blu
Could you make a video for unbalanced spool valves like the ion/gog markers? (I believe the RSX and reflex rail are also unbalanced designs)
Hey madman, appreciate another LV_ tuning vid, and your videos are always detailed and descriptive.
This one was a bit scatter brained. No disrespect, I'm just having a hard time following it. What is the step by step process without a pressure tester? Does it vary based on the shot you're trying to achieve? If so, maybe do a step by step walk through of how you tuned the marker to the 3 shot types you list at the end.
Again, your videos are excellent, just thought this one could be a bit more step-oriented.
Try watching the video again completely ignoring the pressure tester segment. The point of the tester is to skip the portion of the process where you find the LPR "sweet spot." Basically to avoid not having enough pressure and have incomplete cycles, drop off, blowback, etc. and also to avoid running pressures that are too high that will not only make the gun 'kickier,' but also put unnecessary stress in the system. So yeah, the LPR pressure tester's purpose is to make that process easier and quicker.
For reals in watching 20 time already and in starting to get it hahaha
Lovin your videos man, such a big help, plan on buying a 1.1 very soon and now I have an idea of how I wanna tune it. Keep making great videos
that rate of fire at the end.
what output pressure is your tank set at? I'm using a ninja reg with all the shims out.
Seems a little different from how we would tune he older egos. We would start with factory dwell, then lower the lpr till the gun started having issues cycling. Then turn the lpr up to where it cycles fine, then use the hpr for velocity adjustment and use the dwell adjustment to increase consistency.
Looks like on this vid the dwells pretty high since you can see the gasses still blowing well after the ball has left the barrel leading to inefficiency. On an ideal dwell you will see the gasses almost rise straight up following a shot instead of blowing clouds forward.
Ps. Also following large HPR adjustments like going from tournament fields with a 300fps max to a recball 270/280 limit the LPR would need re tuning if it was set to minimum operating pressure at 295fps.
A couple things here:
I mentioned early on that we are tuning to very specific shot types here and very clearly stated that it's a bit of a side-step from the factory instructions. If anything this should just prove how versatile the LV platform can be, but the same can be done with an Ego 11 (with different results obviously). For example, it's pretty much impossible to hit 20bps ( even though don't know why anyone would need it, maybe a heavy gunner in the UWL) with the factory dwell setting. As a matter of fact, you'll waste a ton of air if you have a fast forward stroke and ram the rammer into the valve for an extra 4-5 ms, and that's just counting dwell time, it'd be even longer if you consider pneumatic delay. So please understand, the choices made are very deliberate and objective.
Second, about efficiency. The massive clouds don't mean much. Maybe you don't live in a tropical and humid area to regularly see this, but as humidity goes up, the more dense your muzzle clouds will be when air decompresses. It was quite rainy that day. You are right in a sense though, there is a way to observe excess air consumption by looking at the muzzle cloud; but it has to do with whether or not the cloud hangs at the muzzle after the ball flies through or if it continues to be blown, you can see quite clearly in the slow-mo that the cloud just floats at the muzzle after the shot. Also, look at the bolt pin: it begins its rearward stroke before the ball exits the barrel. THAT is the most important element in efficiency tuning, opening and closing the valve as soon as possible.
And a tiny note about rec vs. tournament velocities. It doesn't apply to every field, all the fields I've been to have a cap of 299 for all forms of play, but in the case that someone does need to play below 280, all they have to do is tune the marker to that velocity.
I appreciate the viewership and apologize for the long reply, but I just want it to be clear that every step taken in this video had a very clear purpose and I kept every single factor in mind.
Yeah I’m not in a tropical environment but it still gets pretty hot and humid during the summer. I forgot at the beginning you said you were over boring which will also add to extra exhaust gas blowing forward. Like running a .693 barrel on an old school ego.
Here for recball they usually limit to 260-280 for indoor on a field that has noobie renters. Then 280 for an indoor BYOP/owners field, and 280+ for almost all outdoor, and 300 for tournaments and house leagues. So there’s a lot of tuning for different velocities here. Most fields say the limits are due to insurance but I doubt that since everyone’s signed their life away in a waiver. Probably more them catering to the birthday parties and renters so they don’t get huge welts and bruises on people kids. Lol. At most of the outdoor speedball fields they aren’t strict chronoing and most players are closer to 300 then the 280 limit. It’s a double edged sword at those fields though since you always get a few assholes shooting well above 300 leaving softball size bruises on people lol.
Just sweet spot your regs
Hey Madmen! I'm wondering if I can achieve your Madmen mode with the heavy rammer? My friend lost my light rammer 😥
Well you might be able to go 2/6 and raise the lpr alittle bit to make the bolt cycle alittle faster.. could always go onling and buy a new one.. i havnt played around with the heavy rammer yet
You do a great job. LVR!!!
Me 5 years later, loving my lv1.6
Thanks for the video!
Do you have plans on filming a turning guide for a CS1?
Razor366D I would like this also
Just turn your SFR. That's all the GEO needs. It's designed to be more "pick up n' play" than the ego.
If you need to do ROF tuning, Eclipse already made a very well made guide explaining that. Look for it in the "planeteclipseTV" channel.
Okay, Thanks!
I've only had a mini so I don't know what a dwell or LPR is. Can someone please explain to me what it is
I'm a new lv1.1 owner and this vid is simply RAD! Thanx so much for making it....after using the g6r for years this is definitely helpful...
P.S. no pun towards the g6r I still have 2 of them and I think mine shoots better the any PE gat....lol...IMO
Is there a way to change the trigger and if so which trigger can I change?
Should I get a spire 3 or get the original
this apply for the LV1.6?
Where I can buy the test regular pressure ( in the rammer )?
Is all this tuning necessary? Is the gun ready to use out of the box ? I want an lv but never owned one before and this is pretty intimidating
No, tuning is entirely optional! Think of it as the equivalent of calibrating the colors on a TV/Monitor, tuning fan curves for a cooling solution or overclocking a processor. Yes, you can tune so poorly that these products become unusable, but it's unlikely that you'll damage something permanently; in the exact same way, if you're unsure, they tend to run perfectly fine out of the box.
Why does less back pressure allow you to operate at a lower pressure?
crash86ed because with stacked tube guns the back pressure actually pushes the bolt back unlike most well designed spools where the bolt is sort of balanced forward(ish). You need to provide a significantly greater amount of force behind the bolt/rammer to fight the blowback and hold the bolt forward for a clean firing stroke. If you have less back pressure pushing the bolt back you will require less pressure behind the rammer to hold the bolt forward and as an effect, a softer cycling gun.
The Madman makes perfect sense, thanks
Yay i was waiting for this :D
Your the best doggie thanks
Can you do this for the LV2?
I found my perfect setting for a perfect shot, i set my sfr 3/5 but after a few shots, the barrel become very cold and I break the balls.
have you any ideas?
could you try dropping in some more details? I have a feeling you might be holding the bolt forward too long. Can you try specifying a bit more?
my setting: Sfr 3/5 dwell 16,8 lpr 3/4 turn. my shot is really perfect, and my fps is very constant
but after a few shots, the barrel become very cold While the outside temperature is hot. I think the difference in temperature make shock on the ball.
It is normal for barrels to chill when you shoot. This happens when there is rapid decompression of air. What I'm concerned about is that you're holding the poppet open for much more time than you have to (thus releasing more air and chilling the barrel more than is normal). Anyway, let's simplify our troubleshooting. Before we think there's a problem with the gun breaking paint, let's try a fresh batch of good paint and see if the gun breaks that. Sometimes when paint turns bad it gets mushy, in other cases the shell can actually just deform and if it's brittle it has a greater chance of breaking in the loader and gun.
I tested 3 cases of paint differents and 3 barrels(shaft fl, boomstick,freak), same thing all time. when you saying "you're holding the poppet open for much more time than you have to (thus releasing more air and chilling the barrel more than is normal)". what do you recommand?decrease the Lpr or the dwell?
I keep my dwell stock sfr at 10/10 and I think stock lpr I live in florida
hello madman, i had a quick question for you. I tuned my lv1 to be consistent within 4-5 fps of my desired rate which is 280fps. However, it seems every say tenth ball the fps will be about 270 it will drop about 10 fps, then go right back to shooting within that 4-5 fps. so my question is, is that normal, and if it is not what should i do to fix it? I played with both the lpr and dwell but when i turn it up or down anymore it seems to be falling way out of the parameters. Thanks.
jeff Goldblum that doesn't sound like it's bad since +/- 10 is good for a stream. I will suggest cleaning the gun entirely first if you haven't already, then to work with your HPR. This sounds like it's a slow chamber recharge rate, higher pressure from the HPR should recharge it faster. Let me know about your results
Yes that seemed to fix the problem for the most part. it is all within 6 fps up and down. Thank you for the info. Do you have any plan on tuning a macdev clone 5? just got one the other day and would love to see what you would be able to do with it.
do u work at a field?
Does this work for the 1.6 too? I’ve heard people say the dwell settings aren’t the same.
Well, for any LV you can't just copy & paste the settings on wherever you'd like because the paint, climate, and gun tolerances change for each use case. What you can do is repeat the system and come up with your own settings (which you can later just quickly set and fine tune a little) that lean toward the use-philosophy you're going for.
@@JustCantGetRight thanks. Could you explain in simple terms exactly the purpose of the SFRs and how they affect shot quality?
@@landonp4726 The solenoid is basically a switch that dictates where air/pressure goes, that's clear, but for one inlet to fill the other has to empty and the SFRs basically control how fast this happens. Imagine a syringe (hopefully without a needle) full of air, depress it with your finger covering the nozzle part way vs depressing it freely. Notice how fast you can empty the air from the syringe in one vs the other? That's exactly what happens in your marker with every actuation (twice, once for the forward stroke and again for the rearward stroke), a restricted SFR setting cushions the rammer's stroke but limits its momentum meaning you'll have a less violent action but that also means a softer strike on the valve. For the rearward stroke it's similar, you don't want it to return so fast that the action is violent but you also don't want it to return so slow that it leaves the firing valve open for too long and also extends the mechanical dwell to the point where paint feeding is unreliable (because remember, paint only feeds into your breech if the bolt is completely at rest).
By tuning all you're doing is finding the sweet spot where you're not striking the valve too hard where it's a harsh action but also not too soft to where you're not getting a clean strike.
Where do you get that pressure tester???
"When" matters more than where hehe. ANS Gear had them in stock for years and suddenly stopped around 2018.
Gold standard you are
can i use this for 1.6?
Mostly, yes. You'll have to figure out settings for that particular solenoid, though. The 1.6 solenoid is more reliable and longer-lasting but is indeed slightly slower.
Can you do one of these videos for a Gtek160R?
Grimz55 gamma core guns require no tuning at all. Just pick up and play :)
@The madman lv1.1 or 160r also is the lv1.1 that finicky or is al this tuning just to get every last bit of preformance out of it thx just subscribed . going to be buying either soon
Where can I get a Lpr pressure tester ?
Jose T ans has them I think.
I ordered mines off Ebay they're so hard to find if interested I can find the guy name on ebay
Could this sorta translate to an etek
You should make this video for the LV2
I would 100% do this if I had an LV2
Hey there. I have an lv1 with rotar, heavy rammer, full sfr 7s both front and back and dwell at 16.3. I get consistent shots but I can't get over 14bps. Played with pressures and I can get it lower than 14, but can't get over that. I used to play with a dye dam with rotar and I do heavy gunning on my team. I wanted to get to the 20bps range like my defender which I feel at 100ft and wind gives me the coverage to ensure I lock someone behind a bunker while we get a law rocket or a runner into position. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?
Hi there Jesus, the combination of the heavy rammer and a high dwell time is what's giving you issues. I'm sure that if you swap the light rammer, keep the SFRs at 10/10 and drop the dwell you'll easily hit around 20 bps.
The Madman :. Thank you! I lost the light rammer but clearly it's the missing link. I will order and post results once I receive it. BTW great video especially in better understanding the Dynamics of the marker.
Jesus Rodriguez how did that work out for you???
Can you just tune mine for me lol
Where r u
Dope!
Please explain to me how back pressure goes back into the gun. Underboring allows you to use less pressure to push the ball through the barrel therefore making the gun more efficient, not so much needed for speedball, but essential for scenario players.
Because there is a tight seal around the ball, all the pressure is trapped between the bolt and ball looking to escape through the path of least resistance. This means the pressure will push both the ball and the bolt until one clears far enough to alleviate the pressure or break the seal (in this case it's obviously until it breaks the seal). Naturally it will be the ball, but the bolt can be pushed back just enough to the point that some of the pressure is released up through the feed neck. Blowback guns use this exact same principle to re-cock on the sear. Most spool valve guns aren't really affected by this since the bolts are sort of pneumatically latched forward since the only way to push the bolt back on those is through the sail.
Also, yes, under-boring will be more efficient and will let you run a lower HPR pressure but your LPR pressure needs to be high enough so that the blowback doesn't push the bolt back.
Hope that makes sense.
The path of least resistance would be the porting in the barrel, therefore there should be no pressure on the bolt itself, which is also connected to the rammer, that minute pressure is not going to push the bolt and the rammer back enough to affect performance that much. Also, feednecks are vented for this reason, the seal between the feedneck and your hopper isn't airtight so I find this a little tough to swallow.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the efficiency thing btw.
The pressure in the breech doesn't know that its quickest exit is the barrel's porting, that's why it pushes everything until it's exhausted. But you seem pretty confident that no pressure pushes against the bolt. Watch at 9:12. I want to know what you think is doing that if it isn't blowback. There's a good 8 inches the ball needs to travel before pressure is relieved at the porting. While that happens, air pressure is still pushing both ways trying to make it out.
Which brings me to another point that you brought up, the rammer. Since the rammer is connected to the bolt, they are a single unit and whatever pressure pushes against the bolt also pushes the rammer (and the rammer is also receiving an intensified push from the blast because of the difference in surface area). There's a reason that ultra light aluminum rammers and über light shaved off bolts don't always work well. Heavy steel is used to hold that momentum long enough for all the air required to be released and the pressure
So again, yes, under boring lets you operate the HPR at a lower pressure but you still need enough pressure behind the rammer to hold it forward for the longevity of the shot.
Quick recap, you can drop your LPR all you want as long as the rammer and bolt are held by a stronger force than the shot can produce to resist blowback.
Thanks for the explanation, while I know blow back is a part of the way this gun operates overall, I mean essentially it's a more elaborate spyder, just like Timmies and Autocockers, etc but I have never had this issue with my LV1. Keep up the great video's tho ...
Thanks for this explanation because the overboring part really threw me for a moment there! As you say, with my clone I can run a lower pressure when I underbore. Besides the LV, what other guns would I want to overbore vs underbore to achieve lower operating pressure?
my gun is smooth with the light and have a 10 10 set up for the solinoid but stock dwell and I think 80 on the fsr and it works well for me in florida
Do or for the Geo 3.5!
4reals!
I'll stick with my 160r
I cant believe youre not chopping at 20bps
that slow mo intro is just so sexy
Do I tune it everytime I go play?
Its according to what factors are at hand for the most part. More than likely not because things like paint, the bore size of your barrel, and the pressure of your tank (assuming you only use 1 and its the same one all the time) wont change due to the environment you're in so you should not have to tune for every time. The only time you would truly need to tune your gun again is seasonal change. In summer you can mostly run the gun however you want (most people go for as smooth as possible for the most enjoyable shot) but in winter, its best to run the gun closer to factory stock as the conditions have changed and the factory settings will make sure your guns runs reliably as possible. Hope this helped!
Tune a geo 3 🐼
I sent you a message on you FB page. Please tune my LV1.1 for me, lol.
Philip Swensen just got a 1.1 excited to try out different tunings
Minute 9:27
I actually hit me face (bottom of my eye) while chronoing my gun with out my push mask, got hit really bad
Pictures of my eye are in my instagram
mr_suricato
Great video btw
lv1...1...r
first
Mask
Thanks, John. I'll keep that in mind next time.
What kind of regulator are you using for your air tank?