No, they wouldn't have. Salmonids need clean, clear water. When she blew, if you remember in the video, there was only inches of clarity. Also, it wasn't for a few years that trout returned. Trout eggs only survive for months
Those lahars are absolutely brutal, huge areas scoured down to bedrock, even on the opposite shores where it raced up the hill, topsoil didn't stand a chance.
I remember in 1975, my family & I lived about 20 miles away from Mt. St Helens. I was only 5 years old. We would drive to Spirit Lake about once a week to get our feet wet, enjoy the beautiful scenery & watch the Wildlife. We even met an old man named Jack I think? I was young, but I remember he was a character & love to tell stories .He lived in a cabin down at the bottom by the lake. He told us he would never move from this beautiful place & the only thing that would make him move is if the mountain buried him!....& strangely it did 5 years later! I remember one weekend we went to the lake, like we always did and part of the lake was gone! Where the water was supposed to be, there was a big hole in the ground and it was growling real loud. I remember thinking as a little kid.....that hole was a path straight to hell! Now I was a little kid, but it seemed like to me that this whole that opened up & swallowed part of the lake was plenty big enough for a car to fall into.. yes my mother did refresh my memory over the years, just in case you're thinking "how could a 5 year old kid remember this?" It is a true story and I do remember this. I always wondered why no one ever talked about the hole in the ground that swallowed up part of spirit lake in 1975. Are there any videos talking about this? has anyone else ever heard about this? It wasn't the whole lake. it was only part of Spirit Lake, back in 1975 or the latter part of 74.
can't find any records anywhere of that taking place... there are reports of the level of spirit lake from around that time that don't report any oddity of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised about a hole in the area but I have a feeling the 'swallowing up part of the lake' was a bit of an embellishment on the part of someone's memory. There's plenty of lava tubes in the region though, not too surprising if one collapsed.
If you dig around YT there are a couple long documentaries about St Helens, one fron the 80s and one has a major section about that guy who wouldnt leave. His house was at the bottom of the lake. His place was covered in something like 150ft of ash...
thank you for sharing your story! perhaps the force of the explosion or the large mass of trees and other landslide materials cause the shoreline of Spirit Lake to shift?
Very interesting. Earth repairs itself vastly faster than previous scientists had theorized. This brings to mind words written by BensonPast: “In the wonders of life, there are mysteries abound. We think we understand, but we know no more than an infant in the perspectives of true reality. Every journey is a solo, no matter how large the crowd around us. The only true landmark we have is ourselves. That is our companion in the journey of life.” If the Yellowstone super-volcano goes off, we can expect the land to repair itself in fifty years or so; based on what we have seen with Mt. St. Helens...
Scientists I know are some of the most pessimistic people I have ever met, almost pathologically so, not surprised their grim projections were seriously overstated.
@@deanfirnatine7814 Yeah, thats a problem with many intelligent/educated people. Once they think they know best, thats it. Little else is possible to them at that point.
@@kathyb5740 Women are the creators of life; they create it in their wombs. Let me add: Life is the most precious thing that exists in the universe, and love is the most precious thing that exists in life. Women bring life into the universe...
I've hiked it twice and it has a very special place in my heart. This guy is awesome. He knows everything there is to know about the place since the eruption. That is just plain cool.
if you're interested in visiting somewhere similar might i recommend Lake Tahoe? the water is gorgeous and a very comfortable temperature. and the mountains, while maybe not as striking as mount st helens, are still quite beautiful, especially in winter if like me, you like the snow ^^
@Raw Bacon Have you ever heard of The Old Man of the Lake. It's a log that has been floating on end in Crater Lake since the later part of the 19th century. There's a colony of ants on it that, presumably, are the descendants of ants that were on the tree when it fell into the water. I first heard of it when I went there with my parents in the 1960s. Some types of logs can float a long time.
Some fish eggs can occasionally stick to the feet/legs of water birds and under the right circumstances they can be redeposited at other bodies of water. This can take decades or longer to fully repopulate an isolated body of water though.
actually i would think scientist are happier to get a real answer than to dwell on being wrong. Not sure why people act like people become scientist for the fame.
It's the beauty of discovering new things, if everything behaved as we'd thought and know we'd be stuck in time never to advance or discover new things.
I miss the 1980s and 1990's Oregon field guide. I miss the faces and the voices. I miss my mom and dad on Thursdays. The TV that broadcasted the episodes, as I have this broadcasted via my phone. We haven't turned the TV on in years. It's tablets and computers and phones. Happy sadness.
Because it's extremely rare and tends to be only of certain species, notably ones with durable eggs than can survive such a method of transportation. Killifish (a very small type of fish) has evolved eggs that can survive some bird's digestive tracts. Trout don't have those adaptions, *and* trout specifically have been anthropologically spread widely around the world. In the US the majority of high alpine lakes that have trout in them were stocked by humans. That humans would restock Spirit Lake, as they have done so many other lakes, is the parsimonious explanation, given the constraints on natural dispersal of the specific species in question.
@Stephen Murphy One of the first things he says is that no scientist has working theory. How is this refusing to admit they don't know what's happening?
Occam's razor. It's far more reasonable to assume humans were just doing what they usually do instead of an insane stroke of blind luck involving multiple wayward birds and fish/eggs that defied death.
The wonders of Mt. Saint Helens are among the most fascinating I have ever encountered. Regarding the mysterious repopulation of fish in the lake: Admiral, there be trout here!
Everyone who's had a fish tank knows that if you put a small fish in a HUGE tank and feed it like crazy, it's gonna get huge. Take a fish that should grow huge and put it in a small tank, and it will stay small regardless of how much you feed it. Empty lake with no fish... But tons of bugs = HUGE fish once they get back into the lake. I know where I'm planning my next vacation fishing trip...
I’ve kept fish for 18 years and never experienced a small fish growing massive because of a big tank.. fish grow as big as their species get, some a little bigger some a little smaller.
@@ryp1562 my point is that if you put a bass in a 20 gallon tank it won't get very big. Maybe saltwater fish are different but I have had many fish in tanks that didn't grow very big because the tank wasn't big enough.
I was 6, almost 7, years old back then. I was playing in the front yard in Troutdale, Or. when my mother told me to look over at the mountain as it was erupting. It was pretty neat and scary. it seemed like it was for years afterward that I remember playing near the storm drains in the built up ash deposits that all looked like miniature river beds. Folks started collecting that ash and stuffing it *into pens and anything else that could be marketed and sold. We use to have a plot up there where the family would all gather and camp, Gone.
that is a bit concerning but i guess hindsight is 20-20. do you have any of those ash filled items left? maybe a museum or some kind of collection would be interested in them!
u@@aquadragondavanin6745 I have a small bottle of ash from that day. I watched it blow that Sunday morning... I lived in Tacoma, WA. I now live in Toledo, WA, the closest town to Mt. St. Helen's and view it often.
Rainbow Trout habitat is usually the oxygen rich water in mountain streams, not a lake. Even though they get plenty to eat in Spirit Lake, it's still much harder for them to breath. Seems a likely suspect.
mutations from low genetic diversity and natural selection pressure make sense too, the only fish that can survive in the lake are ones that can grow fast and big
I live and fish this area often for steelhead in nearby rivers. I think the oxygen component makes most amout of sense. The log mats cover a large portion of the lake blocking all sunlight. When algae is exposed to sunlight it begins to use oxygen in the water to achieve photosynthesis and then releases CO2. Conversely when deprived of sunlight the algae begins to use the CO2 in the water for nightly growth, converting it into oxygen. When the log mat moves around the lake it's constatly changing where the most oxygen is hence improving dissolved oxygen levels across the lake.
Maybe because of the massive amount of biological material decaying, feeding the basic life-forms, feeding the next up on the ladder and so on? Life finds a way.
No, permanent significant phenotype change with no unnatural selection takes millions of years. Adaption takes already occuring phenotypes needing a push from major environmental change (see change of pigs into wild hogs in America). Adaption is also the result of evolutionary radiation which can rapidly lead to new species. This is what happened after major extinction events on earth.
fish growing larger (a size they usually reach in more years) after a few generations is not quite the same as evolution, just that the big fish are surviving long enough to have babies and those babies tend to grow bigger too. most of these trout probably already had the capability to grow so large, but since this lake has no predators for them, they reach the size more often.
All rainbows have the steelhead potential, I've read that some bows in the Deschutes river grow to 13 inches before migrating. This shows a great reason for that adaptation, they can grow large rapidly to exploit a circumstance that may be local or long range, and that may only last a few, maybe tens, hopefully hundreds or tens of thousands, or what ever years. These are Oncorhynchus, Pacific salmonids. Geologically many of their basins were subject to cataclysms such as the Missoula floods, but also just due to climatic instability as the ice ages receded. Their gig is surviving instability as long as cold fresh water is available somewhere nearby. Trout are left behind in even small streams; just in case the species can exploit the environment later. Occasionally the genetics trigger a migrant; just to see the possibilities. Species ever probing their environment in order to survive. Lingo on the Deschutes is of unusually large fish being "two salt fish" meaning they survived their first trip upstream, returned to the ocean, fed another season and returned to the Deschutes in the fall (Sept to Oct). That would be about a 5 year maximum age. Have never heard of a "three salt fish", maybe the limit to aged is programed into the DNA like it is in dogs, cats, cows, etc. Really no surprise here.
Those logs have been floating around the lake for 30 years? They have not removed them because of what reason? Wouldn't removing them help the lake recover? I know ceder can have negative effects on the fish as it has natural antiseptic qualities. What a gorgeous example of the destructively creative power of the universe.
The entire lake is a case study for ecological recovery. They don't want to tamper with anything, and just see how nature handles it on its own. Removing the logs would interfere with that.
Eek logs floating - send in the cranes , bulldozers & trucks to remove - please send in about $500.000 0h it was mother earth not the universe but when you are smoking everything is possible.
@@jwarmstrong Weren't you the one accusing others of smoking weed? Yet here you are getting all tree-hugger on someone else. "Mother Earth"! Can I assume you like drum circles and patchouli?
The trout could have been in one of the cave systems during the eruption and just came out afterwards. I've seen rainbows in quite a few caves that move from lakes or rivers to underground for some reason.
the selection pressure is for size and young repodroduction, elsewhere there's predation, fishing, competition, here the only factor that influences the next gen is size and youth.
Ducks filter feed. They swallow fish and amphibian eggs and tiny fish fry, they hold them in their crop and then upchuck the sediment in water and filter feed it a second time. BAM! you got fish and amphibians in random isoted bodies of water.
@Ken Hudson All science is bullshit.....until they need medical service, travel, a car, food, fuel, electronics, or a house. Then it's OK. All of that is an outcome of "I can't understand it, so it's nonsense".
@Ken Hudson I know, kinda like when all the alleged experts come together for their peer reviewed circle jerk fest. Heaven forbid someone out there in the interwebs second guess their Scientific religion. Their gnashing of teeth is comical.
@Wuhan Virus Exactly my point! These so called scientists base all of their "facts" on theory and then have their peers confirm said theory as factual evidence. Their doctrine of circular reasoning is my all time favorite.
@Ken Hudson - so you're saying feminists are obsessed with rape because they're aroused by talking about it, writing books about it, teaching classes about it.
I think insects are just so abundant in the lake that the trout are able to gorge themselves to the point of it being unhealthy, which makes them huge, fast... but also shortens their lifespan. Much like what happens to people who do the same.
David A. Johnston, 30, was a volcanologist with the U.S. Geological Survey. He was monitoring Mount St. Helens from an observation post called Coldwater II on the day it erupted, according to the USGS. The post was thought to be relatively safe but was destroyed in the disaster.
Yes but God has given us dominion over the beasts of the land and the fish of the sea and we have demonstrated that we are quite destructive. Think of all the creatures that have gone extinct from human activities. It is righteous to be a gentle and caring master to that which you have dominion over.
I sure would love to be a part of your research. I remember when it happened and I live in Wisconsin. Contact me if you’d like to have somebody there to cook for you and I would love to be able to educate myself and my children eventually of truth and not just politics or media of what they say happen. What a wonderful experience in at one time in a lifetime opportunity. God bless and stay safe and healthy with yourself and your family.
Is no one going to mention there's now a mini Grand Canyon there that was created in almost no time at all? Those layers don't represent millions of years. They represent settled materials. How ridiculous that the earth's surface ages in layers.
seismic events can shift the placement of sedimentary layers too! what do you mean by a mini grand canyon? can you tell me what time in the video cause i don't think i saw it :(
All this proves to me is that the "experts" aren't as all-knowing as they want us to believe. One fish planted by somebody? That is complete nonsense. And how did all the others get there if that was actually true?
@13%ofPopulation Commits60%ofViolentCrime - this PhD proved lots of experts wrong with scientific evidence that he presented before Mount Saint Helens erupted, which was confirmed afterwards. ua-cam.com/video/LjA-jYEWlwU/v-deo.html
most scientist don't claim to be all knowing, certainly there are experts in particular fields, but no one is omnipotent. and they didn't say it was one fish by the way.
If the fish grow quickly, then they also reproduce quickly. And no scientist said that it started with only one fish - they know that if you find one, there must be others there too.
The last transmission heard from Johnston occurred as the eruption happened, according to the Scientific American. Johnston said: "Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!" before his radio signal went dark. His remains were never recovered.
Perhaps the high turnover rate of the fish is related to the logs. The logs might deprive some areas more on average, creating deadspots. These deadspots might move over time, leading to there constantly being a death zone that kills off the fish moving throughout the lake. Or, the lack of ice interferes with their mating patterns.
i think you're hitting on something there! maybe because the ice doesn't form in winter, a season where typically there are less bugs, they don't have as much to feed on. maybe the smaller/younger fish can scrape by but at a certain size they can't get enough food to support themselves, and die off.
It's simple. "Nutrient Availability via volcanic pulverization". Nutrient surface area increased exponentially. Basically, there was new food everywhere.
Not changed at all. In fact, it's a well known phenomenon. Check these out. www.cbc.ca/news/world/its-raining-fish-1.4310791 www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/do-you-know-the-reason-behind-the-fish-rain-1508148614-1 It's not a common occurrence but it does happen.
It's pretty much known locally that there were fisherman who stocked the lake. Apparently in their minds they thought were doing something right thinking it would help the ecosystem bounce back. This area where they filmed this around Windy Ridge on the east side of the volcano. I've been there a lot and it's one of my favorite places. Most tourists go to the Johnson visitor center on the westside whereas I've had days where I've not met another soul in this place. There's a dazling view of the caldera and of spirit lake too. Great hiking if you can handle the elevation.
This is a 2007 report (made 27 years after the big eruption). Right after the blast, the lake was covered about 40% with the log mat. Here, in 2007, the ecology worker said the lake is about 20% covered. I saw an estimate from 2018 that said it's still about 20% covered.
Odd I heard years ago from a couple sources that native cutthroat trout just popped up in Spirit Lake a few years after the eruption. If I were the scientists I would not automatically assume those rainbows were planted by someone, fish seem to just find their way to open habitat by some means.
First I would not believe you that magic sources said anything since you are hiding them or making them up. Secondly show a picture of rainbow walking trout or proof of immaculate birth
@@jwarmstrong Neither. What you occasionally get are traveling fertilized eggs, which can be caught in a number of things (boats, nets, feathers, logs, leaves, mats of vegetation, etc) and moved to a new water source.
@@adamlong54 I just worked in Grass Valley last weekend. Place has grown a lot. Still got the newts there i bet. I also stop in Grass Valley to grub on my way up to the Yuba River.
@@mountainman4987 cool man my dad still lives there i went to Nevada Union high there and Empire high before i went into the Army at 17 my dad signed for me to go. Lol. Be careful out there old mine shafts all over the woods people just disappear from time to time. Good gold in them hills still and rivers too.
Because one can be observed. Biology, especially, ecology, is far tougher to test in a scientifically controlled experiment as animals are harder to control than objects/ elements/ inorganic material. Seems like a no-brainer.
@@gxtmfa Observations in the field are not proof of any specific factors or conditions? I know scientists are taught to disbelieve and do their own research. Wouldn't another scientist be compelled to disbelieve the results? Which then, would be more likely, naturally occurring phenomena or laboratory controlled experiments? Try not to be an arrogant ass like you were. It's unbecoming.
Beautiful drive up....Awesome view from the Johnston Ridge Observatory. I highly recommend visiting in late July - late Aug. (best weather)... ...Hint ----> there are at least 6 "gift shops" on the drive up. (can you pick me up a-couple-a t-shirts ......thanks : )
Yeah but all that stuff is closed now because of covid. We were up there the other day - you can still get to the Johnston Ridge observatory and park there but the building is closed.
So if there were just a fraction of the number of trees floating you would still have more sources of food for fish or whatever predators live in the water. While simultaneously allowing more light to penetrate into the lake. Could large area of the lake that lacks sun be playing a role in why the fish are unable to survive a normal lifespan? Could the large areas of shade be a breeding ground to other microbes that are harming the fish? Or is it the logs in general harming them? There are so many questions I have and nearly all of them surround those logs and what role they’re playing that the scientists don’t know about yet.
See? When left alone, the earth renews itself. Many of us witnessed that at lockdown on COVID. Same with humans. If we cut ourselves, it heals. Amazing testament to our Grand Creator.
In 1966 I walked a trail on the west shore of Spirit lake about fifty yards up from the lake, there were thousands of water dogs on the land, they had many fallen trees to hide under.
the fish grow big and got fat fast because they had the perfect environment of food without any predators or competitors. Humans do the same thing.....
There is an underground tunnel and river stream which enters Spirit Lake from the bottom and at one time engineers had to drain lake water and clear up some of the blockages in that stream to prevent flooding down stream. This explains how other aquatic life gets into the lake land out again!
It’s a manmade tunnel built after the eruption to keep the lake from overflowing. Since the water flows out of the lake, it seems unlikely that fish could have swum in through the tunnel, but who knows?
@Up-a-Creek Granted they would have to be ferilized. I'm not an Ichthiologist, that's my son the Vet. I do Human Medicine, Pulmonary. Ovaries aren't my specialty.
This video did a lot to convince me that the Earth will do just fine if a huge meteorite kills off all the humans and destroys hundreds of centuries of accumulated "civilization" pollutants. I can imagine the Earth then taking a long deep breath of relief. In less than another 100 years, mankind's previous existence on the Earth would be only a distant memory -- a nightmare maybe 🤔🌅
I agree. It’s annoying whenever someone says “humans are ruining the planet”. What we actually are doing is ruining the environment that’s best for us and many other species - but the planet itself is just fine and if we disappeared - even in a huge nuclear war or giant meteor strike - things would recover in the blink of an eye geologically.
Unfortunately for these Rainbow, predating on Newts species(?) directly may lead to some log term issues that may be tested or documented with stomach contents of potential specimens to investigate the probable phenomena that they may be ingesting this species or species of toxic potential through ingestion of individuals or accumulation of toxins to critical levels which finally begin to weaken or disable the individual Rainbow's health issues and subsequent collapse. While stomach acids and other digestive abilities may not take individual rainbows immediately, this could lead a sudden collapse of individuals who are predating on this amphibian food source(s) over longer periods of duration.
"We're pretty sure someone put fish into the lake." What is the evidence for this? What is the evidence agents the fish being naturally introduced? Is it possible they entered the lake from a stream?
@@jwarmstrong What you've said applies to the man in this video. He was the one who asserted as near fact that the fish were stocked by humans. So where's his evidence? Where's yours J Arms?
Rainbow trout that originate from hatchery stocks are short lived , usually 3 to 5 years. An extremely old wild stock of rainbow trout might reach nine years. The fish in the video looks like a hatchery fish. When the population of fish in a lake is low, they get larger due to more forage per fish. These fish are not of extraordinary size for this situation. Odds are someone hiked in with a bucket of fry. Sorry to bust your mystery, but these are pretty well known thoughts. I'd love to have a genuine Spriit lake snag to place in a new habitat. The last time I saw the morning "spirit wave" on that lake was back in the 70s. It is still as it was at least in my mind.
The food abundance, due to less competition, might be causing over-sized fish. Also, there might be something in the water that's causing slow premature death (or they might be dying early of obesity :) )
That's the mark of a mature scientist. To act like, "but of course," is a mark of someone who will jump to conclusions instead of use the scientific method.
If my full time job was studying lakes for 20+ years and one of them did something completely different from other lakes I study, I'd be pretty confused, too.
This week snail mail delivered cartography hard copy of ecology Inside lava of Mount St. Helens. Something when explored is now known to be more than 100 feet deep and it has more than 10,000 feet of length. 9 inches is denoted often to size the width or high extent that a visitor must squirm past. Water flows amid a lower level and much more is not submerged. Yes, a maze is present. All but unknown to visitors upon Mount St. Helens.
Well from keeping fish tanks.. If you keep a aggressive cichlid alone in a tank and change the water often it will grow faster then a fuller tank with dirty water..
Glad to see it is coming back. Last time I Saw the place it looked a bomb went off. It was reported to be five Hiroshima's. I still thank the Hand of God! Every Sunday morning I pray at 8:30 a.m. James S Murray U.S.N.P.S. Y.A.C.C. Sedro Woolley.Was. Birmingham, Al.
maybe! though it's not a great idea to take them right now, maybe you can find driftwood on a beach somewhere! there's a channel called jun's kitchen, where he made a cat tree out of driftwood for his pets!
Its 2020, be nice to see an updated version of Mt St Hellens recovery.
As for the trout, could the eggs have survived to replenish Spirit Lake?
Either the scientist is right and someone planted it in the lake, or some how wild life like birds dropped eggs or fish into the lake.
No, they wouldn't have. Salmonids need clean, clear water. When she blew, if you remember in the video, there was only inches of clarity. Also, it wasn't for a few years that trout returned. Trout eggs only survive for months
Someone seeded that lakes.
Nah. Trout eggs need running water and clean gravel to hatch.
Those lahars are absolutely brutal, huge areas scoured down to bedrock, even on the opposite shores where it raced up the hill, topsoil didn't stand a chance.
I remember in 1975, my family & I lived about 20 miles away from Mt. St Helens. I was only 5 years old. We would drive to Spirit Lake about once a week to get our feet wet, enjoy the beautiful scenery & watch the Wildlife. We even met an old man named Jack I think? I was young, but I remember he was a character & love to tell stories .He lived in a cabin down at the bottom by the lake. He told us he would never move from this beautiful place & the only thing that would make him move is if the mountain buried him!....& strangely it did 5 years later!
I remember one weekend we went to the lake, like we always did and part of the lake was gone! Where the water was supposed to be, there was a big hole in the ground and it was growling real loud. I remember thinking as a little kid.....that hole was a path straight to hell! Now I was a little kid, but it seemed like to me that this whole that opened up & swallowed part of the lake was plenty big enough for a car to fall into.. yes my mother did refresh my memory over the years, just in case you're thinking "how could a 5 year old kid remember this?" It is a true story and I do remember this. I always wondered why no one ever talked about the hole in the ground that swallowed up part of spirit lake in 1975.
Are there any videos talking about this? has anyone else ever heard about this?
It wasn't the whole lake. it was only part of Spirit Lake, back in 1975 or the latter part of 74.
T
Awesome experience, thanks for sharing
can't find any records anywhere of that taking place... there are reports of the level of spirit lake from around that time that don't report any oddity of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised about a hole in the area but I have a feeling the 'swallowing up part of the lake' was a bit of an embellishment on the part of someone's memory. There's plenty of lava tubes in the region though, not too surprising if one collapsed.
wouldnt he be dead now anyway?
If you dig around YT there are a couple long documentaries about St Helens, one fron the 80s and one has a major section about that guy who wouldnt leave. His house was at the bottom of the lake. His place was covered in something like 150ft of ash...
thank you for sharing your story! perhaps the force of the explosion or the large mass of trees and other landslide materials cause the shoreline of Spirit Lake to shift?
Very interesting. Earth repairs itself vastly faster than previous scientists had theorized. This brings to mind words written by BensonPast: “In the wonders of life, there are mysteries abound. We think we understand, but we know no more than an infant in the perspectives of true reality. Every journey is a solo, no matter how large the crowd around us. The only true landmark we have is ourselves. That is our companion in the journey of life.” If the Yellowstone super-volcano goes off, we can expect the land to repair itself in fifty years or so; based on what we have seen with Mt. St. Helens...
Scientists I know are some of the most pessimistic people I have ever met, almost pathologically so, not surprised their grim projections were seriously overstated.
" life finds a way"!
@@deanfirnatine7814
Yeah, thats a problem with many intelligent/educated people. Once they think they know best, thats it. Little else is possible to them at that point.
@@markmaloney8154
God brings life.
@@kathyb5740 Women are the creators of life; they create it in their wombs. Let me add: Life is the most precious thing that exists in the universe, and love is the most precious thing that exists in life. Women bring life into the universe...
I've hiked it twice and it has a very special place in my heart. This guy is awesome. He knows everything there is to know about the place since the eruption. That is just plain cool.
Well said .
Loved this video, wish there were more recent ones to see how much more has changed in the 13 years since this was filmed.
There is one for the 35th anniversary
Look that up.
@FUCK TRUMP very sad when the Pledge of Allegiance isn't recognizable in plain sight...
@FUCK TRUMP Trump 2020
@@turnoffmainstream Indeed there is a plethora of commentaries, documenaries and other videos released to commemorate the 40th anniversay
@@turnoffmainstream what's the name of it?
I wish I could have seen Mount St. Helens before the eruption. It looks heavenly in the old films.
if you're interested in visiting somewhere similar might i recommend Lake Tahoe? the water is gorgeous and a very comfortable temperature. and the mountains, while maybe not as striking as mount st helens, are still quite beautiful, especially in winter if like me, you like the snow ^^
Go to Mt Adams. The Tahklahk lake area is ideal
I was little and living in Seattle when the volcano erupted. I remember seeing the cloud & ash coating our cars
The resurgence of life doesn't surprise me as much as there are still floating logs, that's incredible.
Please have another Twinkie while smoking - floating wood man that is really cool - pass the joint -
@@jwarmstrong I find it cool too
They are a source of methyl mercury so I agree that their removal would have been a positive thing.
@Raw Bacon Have you ever heard of The Old Man of the Lake. It's a log that has been floating on end in Crater Lake since the later part of the 19th century. There's a colony of ants on it that, presumably, are the descendants of ants that were on the tree when it fell into the water. I first heard of it when I went there with my parents in the 1960s. Some types of logs can float a long time.
Pull them out and use them
Life, um, finds a way.
you beat me to it
it's *UH*
Some fish eggs can occasionally stick to the feet/legs of water birds and under the right circumstances they can be redeposited at other bodies of water. This can take decades or longer to fully repopulate an isolated body of water though.
Love it
Sad that some people are only able to live vicariously through movie quotes ... they don't love in the real world.
I love it when Nature behaves in ways scientists say it shouldn't.
You must be having a ball this year!
actually i would think scientist are happier to get a real answer than to dwell on being wrong. Not sure why people act like people become scientist for the fame.
It's the beauty of discovering new things, if everything behaved as we'd thought and know we'd be stuck in time never to advance or discover new things.
I miss the 1980s and 1990's Oregon field guide. I miss the faces and the voices. I miss my mom and dad on Thursdays. The TV that broadcasted the episodes, as I have this broadcasted via my phone. We haven't turned the TV on in years. It's tablets and computers and phones. Happy sadness.
This was a surprising study. Remarkably well presented and shows us that we need to study much more. Wow! This video needs to be watched more.
Fish wind up in isolated mine pits. Apparently waterfoul bring them in. Why do they have to be planted?
because fisherman have done it plenty of times in the past?
Because it's extremely rare and tends to be only of certain species, notably ones with durable eggs than can survive such a method of transportation. Killifish (a very small type of fish) has evolved eggs that can survive some bird's digestive tracts.
Trout don't have those adaptions, *and* trout specifically have been anthropologically spread widely around the world. In the US the majority of high alpine lakes that have trout in them were stocked by humans. That humans would restock Spirit Lake, as they have done so many other lakes, is the parsimonious explanation, given the constraints on natural dispersal of the specific species in question.
@Stephen Murphy One of the first things he says is that no scientist has working theory. How is this refusing to admit they don't know what's happening?
Occam's razor. It's far more reasonable to assume humans were just doing what they usually do instead of an insane stroke of blind luck involving multiple wayward birds and fish/eggs that defied death.
Good point, probably accidentally dropped by an Eagle. But there can also be underground water channels or springs.
i've been to mt st helens a few times over the years and it is still the eeriest place i have ever been to.
Seeing Mount Saint Helens is on my bucket list .
An amazing study of the ecology of Mt. St. Helen and the wonderful dedication of Charley Crisafulli.
AND WE WANT AN UPDATE IN 2020!!!!!
Beautiful. Mother and Father Nature have outsmarted us again.
The wonders of Mt. Saint Helens are among the most fascinating I have ever encountered.
Regarding the mysterious repopulation of fish in the lake: Admiral, there be trout here!
That's incredible.
I'd studied the blast in school, but I never knew how well Spirit Lake and the amphibian population bounced back.
Everyone who's had a fish tank knows that if you put a small fish in a HUGE tank and feed it like crazy, it's gonna get huge.
Take a fish that should grow huge and put it in a small tank, and it will stay small regardless of how much you feed it.
Empty lake with no fish... But tons of bugs = HUGE fish once they get back into the lake.
I know where I'm planning my next vacation fishing trip...
Well, if you try that, you'll have to dodge game wardens.
Spirit is still closed. Try Coldwater lake, it's within the national monument. Good trout fishing.
Still the question of why they die so early. That's what's got me so curious.
I’ve kept fish for 18 years and never experienced a small fish growing massive because of a big tank.. fish grow as big as their species get, some a little bigger some a little smaller.
@@ryp1562 my point is that if you put a bass in a 20 gallon tank it won't get very big.
Maybe saltwater fish are different but I have had many fish in tanks that didn't grow very big because the tank wasn't big enough.
I was 6, almost 7, years old back then. I was playing in the front yard in Troutdale, Or. when my mother told me to look over at the mountain as it was erupting. It was pretty neat and scary. it seemed like it was for years afterward that I remember playing near the storm drains in the built up ash deposits that all looked like miniature river beds. Folks started collecting that ash and stuffing it *into pens and anything else that could be marketed and sold.
We use to have a plot up there where the family would all gather and camp, Gone.
that is a bit concerning but i guess hindsight is 20-20. do you have any of those ash filled items left? maybe a museum or some kind of collection would be interested in them!
u@@aquadragondavanin6745 I have a small bottle of ash from that day.
I watched it blow that Sunday morning... I lived in Tacoma, WA.
I now live in Toledo, WA, the closest town to Mt. St. Helen's and view it often.
Thank you! This is fabulous ~ one of the few gov't workers that is really doing intelligent projects.
Rainbow Trout habitat is usually the oxygen rich water in mountain streams, not a lake. Even though they get plenty to eat in Spirit Lake, it's still much harder for them to breath. Seems a likely suspect.
mutations from low genetic diversity and natural selection pressure make sense too, the only fish that can survive in the lake are ones that can grow fast and big
I live and fish this area often for steelhead in nearby rivers.
I think the oxygen component makes most amout of sense. The log mats cover a large portion of the lake blocking all sunlight. When algae is exposed to sunlight it begins to use oxygen in the water to achieve photosynthesis and then releases CO2. Conversely when deprived of sunlight the algae begins to use the CO2 in the water for nightly growth, converting it into oxygen. When the log mat moves around the lake it's constatly changing where the most oxygen is hence improving dissolved oxygen levels across the lake.
I've been reading many of the comments. Professor Glen Moore put it succinctly- "There is a difference between human cunning and Divine Wisdom."
Maybe because of the massive amount of biological material decaying, feeding the basic life-forms, feeding the next up on the ladder and so on? Life finds a way.
@Casanova Frankenstein maybe it was in their culture, a type of selective breeding, liking bigger men and women.
But they said adaptation takes millions of years...
They say a lot of things.
No, permanent significant phenotype change with no unnatural selection takes millions of years.
Adaption takes already occuring phenotypes needing a push from major environmental change (see change of pigs into wild hogs in America).
Adaption is also the result of evolutionary radiation which can rapidly lead to new species. This is what happened after major extinction events on earth.
fish growing larger (a size they usually reach in more years) after a few generations is not quite the same as evolution, just that the big fish are surviving long enough to have babies and those babies tend to grow bigger too. most of these trout probably already had the capability to grow so large, but since this lake has no predators for them, they reach the size more often.
Mother nature is a tough old girl, mystery solved!
All rainbows have the steelhead potential, I've read that some bows in the Deschutes river grow to 13 inches before migrating. This shows a great reason for that adaptation, they can grow large rapidly to exploit a circumstance that may be local or long range, and that may only last a few, maybe tens, hopefully hundreds or tens of thousands, or what ever years. These are Oncorhynchus, Pacific salmonids. Geologically many of their basins were subject to cataclysms such as the Missoula floods, but also just due to climatic instability as the ice ages receded. Their gig is surviving instability as long as cold fresh water is available somewhere nearby. Trout are left behind in even small streams; just in case the species can exploit the environment later. Occasionally the genetics trigger a migrant; just to see the possibilities. Species ever probing their environment in order to survive. Lingo on the Deschutes is of unusually large fish being "two salt fish" meaning they survived their first trip upstream, returned to the ocean, fed another season and returned to the Deschutes in the fall (Sept to Oct). That would be about a 5 year maximum age. Have never heard of a "three salt fish", maybe the limit to aged is programed into the DNA like it is in dogs, cats, cows, etc. Really no surprise here.
It doesn't surprise me about the amphibians. They've been around for what, 400 million years?
Hats off to this researcher!!
Random videos like these that show up in recommendations are the best. Hidden Gems!
I ate trout tonight. And listened to The Trout. Yummm.
Those logs have been floating around the lake for 30 years? They have not removed them because of what reason? Wouldn't removing them help the lake recover? I know ceder can have negative effects on the fish as it has natural antiseptic qualities. What a gorgeous example of the destructively creative power of the universe.
The entire lake is a case study for ecological recovery. They don't want to tamper with anything, and just see how nature handles it on its own. Removing the logs would interfere with that.
Eek logs floating - send in the cranes , bulldozers & trucks to remove - please send in about $500.000 0h it was mother earth not the universe but when you are smoking everything is possible.
@@jwarmstrong Weren't you the one accusing others of smoking weed? Yet here you are getting all tree-hugger on someone else. "Mother Earth"! Can I assume you like drum circles and patchouli?
The trees would definitely leech toxic heavy metals like mercury.
The trout could have been in one of the cave systems during the eruption and just came out afterwards. I've seen rainbows in quite a few caves that move from lakes or rivers to underground for some reason.
the selection pressure is for size and young repodroduction, elsewhere there's predation, fishing, competition, here the only factor that influences the next gen is size and youth.
Channels like Answers in Genesis and Genesis 1:1 covers much of this.
Ducks filter feed. They swallow fish and amphibian eggs and tiny fish fry, they hold them in their crop and then upchuck the sediment in water and filter feed it a second time. BAM! you got fish and amphibians in random isoted bodies of water.
Great video, accompanied by some of THE most ignorant comments I have ever read.
@Ken Hudson All science is bullshit.....until they need medical service, travel, a car, food, fuel, electronics, or a house. Then it's OK. All of that is an outcome of "I can't understand it, so it's nonsense".
@Ken Hudson I know, kinda like when all the alleged experts come together for their peer reviewed circle jerk fest. Heaven forbid someone out there in the interwebs second guess their Scientific religion. Their gnashing of teeth is comical.
@Wuhan Virus Exactly my point! These so called scientists base all of their "facts" on theory and then have their peers confirm said theory as factual evidence. Their doctrine of circular reasoning is my all time favorite.
@Ken Hudson - so you're saying feminists are obsessed with rape because they're aroused by talking about it, writing books about it, teaching classes about it.
@@danstrayer111 You nailed it!...most ignorant folks are also arrogant.
Never underestimate Mother Nature's ability to repair/heal herself!
I think insects are just so abundant in the lake that the trout are able to gorge themselves to the point of it being unhealthy, which makes them huge, fast... but also shortens their lifespan. Much like what happens to people who do the same.
David A. Johnston, 30, was a volcanologist with the U.S. Geological Survey. He was monitoring Mount St. Helens from an observation post called Coldwater II on the day it erupted, according to the USGS. The post was thought to be relatively safe but was destroyed in the disaster.
Really love the work OPB does!
so interesting
So you are tired of your navel again -
Its because they think the environment is fragile. But God has made His world very strong and robust.
Yes but God has given us dominion over the beasts of the land and the fish of the sea and we have demonstrated that we are quite destructive. Think of all the creatures that have gone extinct from human activities. It is righteous to be a gentle and caring master to that which you have dominion over.
Another special person, who absolutely is a spokesman for his God!...lol
I sure would love to be a part of your research. I remember when it happened and I live in Wisconsin. Contact me if you’d like to have somebody there to cook for you and I would love to be able to educate myself and my children eventually of truth and not just politics or media of what they say happen. What a wonderful experience in at one time in a lifetime opportunity. God bless and stay safe and healthy with yourself and your family.
Is no one going to mention there's now a mini Grand Canyon there that was created in almost no time at all? Those layers don't represent millions of years. They represent settled materials. How ridiculous that the earth's surface ages in layers.
seismic events can shift the placement of sedimentary layers too! what do you mean by a mini grand canyon? can you tell me what time in the video cause i don't think i saw it :(
All this proves to me is that the "experts" aren't as all-knowing as they want us to believe. One fish planted by somebody? That is complete nonsense. And how did all the others get there if that was actually true?
@13%ofPopulation Commits60%ofViolentCrime - this PhD proved lots of experts wrong with scientific evidence that he presented before Mount Saint Helens erupted, which was confirmed afterwards.
ua-cam.com/video/LjA-jYEWlwU/v-deo.html
most scientist don't claim to be all knowing, certainly there are experts in particular fields, but no one is omnipotent. and they didn't say it was one fish by the way.
If the fish grow quickly, then they also reproduce quickly. And no scientist said that it started with only one fish - they know that if you find one, there must be others there too.
A rare glimpse of how God creates.😊
The last transmission heard from Johnston occurred as the eruption happened, according to the Scientific American. Johnston said: "Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!" before his radio signal went dark. His remains were never recovered.
Volcanic ash is like miracle grow for plants.
Perhaps the high turnover rate of the fish is related to the logs. The logs might deprive some areas more on average, creating deadspots. These deadspots might move over time, leading to there constantly being a death zone that kills off the fish moving throughout the lake.
Or, the lack of ice interferes with their mating patterns.
i think you're hitting on something there! maybe because the ice doesn't form in winter, a season where typically there are less bugs, they don't have as much to feed on. maybe the smaller/younger fish can scrape by but at a certain size they can't get enough food to support themselves, and die off.
Not to mention the toxic heavy metals leeching from all the logs.
The recovery of the amphibians is encouraging.
True , but the strange growth cycle of the lake trout looks worrisome to me .
It's simple. "Nutrient Availability via volcanic pulverization". Nutrient surface area increased exponentially. Basically, there was new food everywhere.
rain may have placed the fish there like in the science books of the 80's told us in school or did they change it again?
Not changed at all. In fact, it's a well known phenomenon. Check these out.
www.cbc.ca/news/world/its-raining-fish-1.4310791
www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/do-you-know-the-reason-behind-the-fish-rain-1508148614-1
It's not a common occurrence but it does happen.
It's pretty much known locally that there were fisherman who stocked the lake. Apparently in their minds they thought were doing something right thinking it would help the ecosystem bounce back. This area where they filmed this around Windy Ridge on the east side of the volcano. I've been there a lot and it's one of my favorite places. Most tourists go to the Johnson visitor center on the westside whereas I've had days where I've not met another soul in this place. There's a dazling view of the caldera and of spirit lake too. Great hiking if you can handle the elevation.
Where did you go to school??
This is a 2007 report (made 27 years after the big eruption). Right after the blast, the lake was covered about 40% with the log mat. Here, in 2007, the ecology worker said the lake is about 20% covered. I saw an estimate from 2018 that said it's still about 20% covered.
I go up there almost every year and I think 20% is about right.
Odd I heard years ago from a couple sources that native cutthroat trout just popped up in Spirit Lake a few years after the eruption. If I were the scientists I would not automatically assume those rainbows were planted by someone, fish seem to just find their way to open habitat by some means.
First I would not believe you that magic sources said anything since you are hiding them or making them up. Secondly show a picture of rainbow walking trout or proof of immaculate birth
@@jwarmstrong Neither. What you occasionally get are traveling fertilized eggs, which can be caught in a number of things (boats, nets, feathers, logs, leaves, mats of vegetation, etc) and moved to a new water source.
WATCH ANIMALS FOR WARNINGS ABOUT ERUPTIONS.
Yes they run - without being told
I've personally witnessed the Sierra newt a couple of miles from any water source on the steep sides of mountains.
Yep, I put those rainbows in the lake when I planted trees in the early 90s.
Me too i used to live in grass valley California. They are all over the place or was when i was a kid im 50 next month lmao
@@adamlong54 I just worked in Grass Valley last weekend. Place has grown a lot. Still got the newts there i bet. I also stop in Grass Valley to grub on my way up to the Yuba River.
@@mountainman4987 cool man my dad still lives there i went to Nevada Union high there and Empire high before i went into the Army at 17 my dad signed for me to go. Lol. Be careful out there old mine shafts all over the woods people just disappear from time to time. Good gold in them hills still and rivers too.
Mt. St. Helens might be a mystery, but they understand carbon footprints... scratches head.
Because one can be observed. Biology, especially, ecology, is far tougher to test in a scientifically controlled experiment as animals are harder to control than objects/ elements/ inorganic material. Seems like a no-brainer.
@@gxtmfa Observations in the field are not proof of any specific factors or conditions? I know scientists are taught to disbelieve and do their own research. Wouldn't another scientist be compelled to disbelieve the results? Which then, would be more likely, naturally occurring phenomena or laboratory controlled experiments? Try not to be an arrogant ass like you were. It's unbecoming.
My mother was attending college in SoCal at the time, she said the effects could be witnessed down there!
I'm in the UK and the effects were witnessed HERE...
Beautiful drive up....Awesome view from the Johnston Ridge Observatory. I highly recommend visiting in late July - late Aug. (best weather)...
...Hint ----> there are at least 6 "gift shops" on the drive up. (can you pick me up a-couple-a t-shirts ......thanks : )
Yeah but all that stuff is closed now because of covid. We were up there the other day - you can still get to the Johnston Ridge observatory and park there but the building is closed.
@@Sashazur ...not surprising, haven't been there in a couple years.
Fantastic documentary
So if there were just a fraction of the number of trees floating you would still have more sources of food for fish or whatever predators live in the water. While simultaneously allowing more light to penetrate into the lake.
Could large area of the lake that lacks sun be playing a role in why the fish are unable to survive a normal lifespan? Could the large areas of shade be a breeding ground to other microbes that are harming the fish? Or is it the logs in general harming them?
There are so many questions I have and nearly all of them surround those logs and what role they’re playing that the scientists don’t know about yet.
See? When left alone, the earth renews itself. Many of us witnessed that at lockdown on COVID. Same with humans. If we cut ourselves, it heals. Amazing testament to our Grand Creator.
Great story . Thanks
Harry put the fish in the lake. No way he could stand there being no fish in his beloved lake. Rip Harry..
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In 1966 I walked a trail on the west shore of Spirit lake about fifty yards up from the lake, there were thousands of water dogs on the land, they had many fallen trees to hide under.
what are water dogs?
@@aquadragondavanin6745 Salamander
Great stuff!!
the fish grow big and got fat fast because they had the perfect environment of food without any predators or competitors. Humans do the same thing.....
I did not see any Trash like plastic cans and bottles why aren't we doing our part to restore it
There is an underground tunnel and river stream which enters Spirit Lake from the bottom and at one time engineers had to drain lake water and clear up some of the blockages in that stream to prevent flooding down stream. This explains how other aquatic life gets into the lake land out again!
It’s a manmade tunnel built after the eruption to keep the lake from overflowing. Since the water flows out of the lake, it seems unlikely that fish could have swum in through the tunnel, but who knows?
Eagles?
I mean spreading the fish, not the early demises.
@Up-a-Creek Granted they would have to be ferilized. I'm not an Ichthiologist, that's my son the Vet. I do Human Medicine, Pulmonary. Ovaries aren't my specialty.
This video did a lot to convince me that the Earth will do just fine if a huge meteorite kills off all the humans and destroys hundreds of centuries of accumulated "civilization" pollutants. I can imagine the Earth then taking a long deep breath of relief. In less than another 100 years, mankind's previous existence on the Earth would be only a distant memory -- a nightmare maybe 🤔🌅
I agree. It’s annoying whenever someone says “humans are ruining the planet”. What we actually are doing is ruining the environment that’s best for us and many other species - but the planet itself is just fine and if we disappeared - even in a huge nuclear war or giant meteor strike - things would recover in the blink of an eye geologically.
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@@Sashazur ❤️
Nature is even tougher than you think.... Life.. finds a way.
Unfortunately for these Rainbow, predating on Newts species(?) directly may lead to some log term issues that may be tested or documented with stomach contents of potential specimens to investigate the probable phenomena that they may be ingesting this species or species of toxic potential through ingestion of individuals or accumulation of toxins to critical levels which finally begin to weaken or disable the individual Rainbow's health issues and subsequent collapse. While stomach acids and other digestive abilities may not take individual rainbows immediately, this could lead a sudden collapse of individuals who are predating on this amphibian food source(s) over longer periods of duration.
Fascinating...thankyou.
"We're pretty sure someone put fish into the lake."
What is the evidence for this? What is the evidence agents the fish being naturally introduced? Is it possible they entered the lake from a stream?
Show your proof or go away -
No streams.
@@jwarmstrong What you've said applies to the man in this video. He was the one who asserted as near fact that the fish were stocked by humans. So where's his evidence? Where's yours J Arms?
With today's genetic testing, it should be pretty damn easy to figure it out. Oh, wait .. where's my proof?
Rainbow trout that originate from hatchery stocks are short lived , usually 3 to 5 years. An extremely old wild stock of rainbow trout might reach nine years. The fish in the video looks like a hatchery fish. When the population of fish in a lake is low, they get larger due to more forage per fish. These fish are not of extraordinary size for this situation. Odds are someone hiked in with a bucket of fry. Sorry to bust your mystery, but these are pretty well known thoughts. I'd love to have a genuine Spriit lake snag to place in a new habitat. The last time I saw the morning "spirit wave" on that lake was back in the 70s. It is still as it was at least in my mind.
The picture of the fish is almost certainly not the on(s) in Spirit Lake, just some stock footage.
@@ZingaraJoe You think you can find any proof of your claim?
How do you KNOW someone planted that fish. You don't.
they don't know for sure, it's just one of the likely theories. they never claimed to be certain
Have they considered removing the logs from the lake? How long before those logs decay if they were just left there?
They provide nutrients and habitat.
Nature: forest gets washed into lake by gigantic volcanic landslide.
_trees grow on top of the floating logjam_
If you park your car in those forests for long enough a tree grows on it.
It's gonna be a fine swell day!
The food abundance, due to less competition, might be causing over-sized fish. Also, there might be something in the water that's causing slow premature death (or they might be dying early of obesity :) )
...except it was pointed out at least once just how healthy these fish are.
1:30
It sure did not take too long for human pollution to make a comeback on that trail.
Nature will find a way... it always does!
Amazing
Great video
Why are scientists so confused when they realize they don't know everything?
because they are a lot like politicians.....
That's the mark of a mature scientist. To act like, "but of course," is a mark of someone who will jump to conclusions instead of use the scientific method.
I mean, shouldn’t you be confused when you don’t know something? I find your statement self-evident.
God made it, and He did a good job.
If my full time job was studying lakes for 20+ years and one of them did something completely different from other lakes I study, I'd be pretty confused, too.
Very Interesting video.
We want public access back into Spirit Lake. 41 years is long enough....
Maybe that's why life is flourishing there! No damn humans to spoil it!
What a glorious man
This week snail mail delivered cartography hard copy of ecology
Inside lava of Mount St. Helens. Something when explored is
now known to be more than 100 feet deep and it has more than
10,000 feet of length. 9 inches is denoted often to size the width
or high extent that a visitor must squirm past. Water flows amid
a lower level and much more is not submerged. Yes, a maze is
present. All but unknown to visitors upon Mount St. Helens.
Will this video tell about the Sasquatch population there?
No scientist were ever seen again after looking for them...
Well from keeping fish tanks..
If you keep a aggressive cichlid alone in a tank and change the water often it will grow faster then a fuller tank with dirty water..
Why wouldnt the area of contamination be a subject of investigation?
The entire area is “contaminated” by ash, and it is constantly being “investigated” by scientists curious about how life comes back after an eruption.
I’m wondering if the fishes’ short lifespan is related to the overabundance of food and a higher metabolism.
Glad to see it is coming back. Last time I Saw the place it looked a bomb went off. It was reported to be five Hiroshima's. I still thank the Hand of God! Every Sunday morning I pray at 8:30 a.m. James S Murray U.S.N.P.S. Y.A.C.C. Sedro Woolley.Was. Birmingham, Al.
I would take that logs and start a driftwood furniture shop
maybe! though it's not a great idea to take them right now, maybe you can find driftwood on a beach somewhere! there's a channel called jun's kitchen, where he made a cat tree out of driftwood for his pets!
For some odd reason this place scares the shit out of me and I’m 34..
AWESOME !!
your looking for the accelerant, it could be a cocktail............ You may discover why the Dinosaur was huge.... good luck