Well, japanese is a difficult and quiet complex language. Also, suisei now looks like one of the Beatles from the 70s. I think it's the glasses that remind me of the 70s.
It's like Cheese nailing a backwards long jump in Super Mario 64, Zero Master nailing another world record speedrun of a Doom map, or Choco being champion zako in Mario Kart. Nuffin' to it.
Hahaha! Oh no... thanks for explaining the context! To be fair, it does sound like it could be a tongue twister... iromono, iromegane... It's like pronunciation with some words, too... Ame (sweets) and ame (rain). Or shoujo (young girl) and soujo (virginity)... that could lead to an awkward misunderstanding! 😅
That's quite the slip, Sui-chan. And if Marine, Koyori, and Okayu have anything to say about it, the slip won't be true. Don't know about "not being niche", only time will tell there.
One of the difficult thing about Japanese language is that certain kanji words (or phrases) can have multiple different pronunciation. On the other hand, thankfully, Japanese is not tonal like Mandarin, where a word in different tones can means difference thing
2:45 Here are the literal translations for anyone curious (please look in the replies for additional info): Iromono - Colored stuff (maybe coined from a time where multicolored objects were unusual or rare, hence the meaning of "unorthodox", or as someone else in the comments put it, "niche") Iromegane - Colored/Tinted glasses (similar to the English idiom "rose-tinted glasses", but I believe it can be used for either a positive or a negative bias, whereas the English one can only be used for positive bias) Irome - Colored eyes (not quite sure about the explanation for this one)
In Literary Chinese, the character 色 more literally corresponds to 'color in the face' or 'emotion'. It was generally used alone and often implied sexual desire or desirability. Chinese also had/has a lot of terms with that connotation, like 好色 meaning to lust for women (still the same in japanese) or 色情 meaning pornography (means lust or sexual passion in japanese), 姿色 meaning good looks, etc. From the 900s on, based on chinese usage the japanese also started to use that implied meaning in addition to just the normal meaning of "color" which they got first. 色 on it's own basically meant something to do with affairs or red light districts, and you still have terms like 艶色 for lust or 男色 for sodomy/male homosexuality. That's basically where 色目 comes from.
>maybe coined from a time where multicolored objects were unusual or rare No need to theorize what is learnable with study. This comes from old theater. The performers names would be listed with traditional oral performers such as storytellers and comedians being written in black ink, and unorthodox performers such as magicians and tricksters written in red ink. >Irome - Colored eyes (not quite sure about the explanation for this one) This is what happens when you treat Kanji as "words" and try to "translate individual kanji". Kanji are not words they are characters used to write words. The same kanji can be used to write many different words. On it's own, 色 means color, yes. But it can have many meanings. Try looking up 景色, 脚色, 出色, 物色, 難色. 色 can be used to indicate variety, as in 色々、色んな. It can be used to indicate expression, as in 顔色 face+color, both countenance and complexion. As in 声色 voice+color, both vocal tone and vocal qualities. As in 気色 feeling+color, the feeling or impression something gives you. If something is 気色悪い it grosses you out. In Buddhist vernacular, 色 means material things, hence the material world, hence the carnal. From there, 色 carries the meaning of "lust". You can look up the meaning of these words. 好色, 漁色, 男色, 女色, 酒色, 色欲, 色情, 色魔.
@@TheTruth-xp2of good post, a lot of jp language learners make the mistake of trying to memorize kanji and their meanings instead of just learning words. It's why I disagree with people using Heisig's RTK.
@@TheTruth-xp2of Interesting. Thanks for the info! ^^ With _"iro-iro"_ actually, I personally thought it was also just a metaphor or analogy of sorts (at least originally), or like a shortening of a phrase regarding something the has different versions of different colors, or a single object with multiple colors, leading to the meaning of "variety". Heck, could that also be how _"iro"_ came to mean material things in Buddhist vernacular, perhaps? Because white often represents purity (and last I checked, the same is true for Buddhism), so colors (taken as a whole) could represent the diverse but imperfect and ever-changing physical realm or something (and by extension, material objects and sexual desires), but yeah, I need more studying to be sure... Also, although translating kanji by kanji is certainly an imperfect method, it personally helps me with memorization. Plus, it can lead to interesting etymology tidbits like this lol Considering the Bhuddist meaning of _"iro"_ tho (regardless of whether it was literal or an extrapolated metaphor), I guess I can think of the "extended meaning" of _"irome"_ as being something along the lines of "eyes tainted by/biased the physical world/pleasures of the flesh" then? Additions: The Japanese version Wikipedia says that, in Classical Japanese, one of the original meanings of _"iro-iro"_ was "colorful" (which makes sense given that it's a reduplication of _"iro",_ color), tho it seems like it already had the meaning of "various" at the time. As for _"irome",_ although I haven't dug deep, I was at least able to find out that the literal meaning (when taken as a whole, as opposed to two separate kanji) is "color tone", "shade", or "hue". Other than that, nothing much, although I'm not very fluent in Japanese, so a lot more studying is needed for sure if I want to search sites written purely in Japanese (at least, if I want to do so without the aid of machine translation)...
When she talked about her not being that smart (because of not attending school properly) but also not having the image of being stupid it kinda reminded me of something I have thought about. I sometimes think Suisei is the smartest idiot I know. Except not really, what I actually think is more like the opposite. More like stupidest genius. I feel like she is clearly quite intelligent but also has many of her own pon and baka moments. She has been called a bit of an airhead by some members if my memory does not deceive me. Also it is interesting that how both her intended meaning, the assumed meaning and what she actually said all can apply to the situation of and general outlook on vtubers. It is a shame it apparently got used by haters as fuel thought.
I think that though the slander laws are kind of unusual in Japan, it's situations like these where if Cover really wanted to stop the people tweeting suisei's small mistake on purpose to cause trouble, then the laws would actually work in Cover's favour (superficial observation by a person not familiar with japanese law or law in general)
2:44 tbh, she's not quite wrong with her mistake from my point of view, and it's quite disappointing. In France (and in the French speaking market), vtubing has just not taken off like it did in other part of the world like the US or in SEA countries, even though it is the 2nd biggest market for mangas and anime after Japan. On one hand, we are cultured on everything related to the anime culture. But on the other hand. Vtubing is just seen as something for people who are horny, pervert or that lacks affection. They're unaware and thinks everyone is just doing gfe/bfe content because it's "anime"
日本語か…マジ難しい、本当に！ Additionally, I'm learning more and more that 色 is really a deeply contextual character as well as 目 while it was taught in the earlier levels as something more concrete in terms of concept but carries more meanings rather than simply color 「色」(いろ/iro), eye 「目」(め/me)
The FIRST TAKEのcommentを見た人とか、Suisei先輩をよく知っている人は、言葉尻に関係なく言いたいことは理解できたと思うけどね。 めざましテレビは、通勤前の学生や会社員などがジャンル問わず視聴する感じの番組なので、「ん、、？🤔」ってなった人も多かったかもしれん。まあ、出かける準備で忙しい時間だから、そこまで気にしてない人の方が多かっただろうけど。
I mean, I know I'm deeply in the minority (especially with just how many boobtubers and bare thighs are flying around) but...I kinda resonate best with Sui's actual statement, even though it's not what she meant.
Japanese is hard to westerners, yes. But english is also hard. English also have that weird pronunciations. Same letter have a different pronunciations in the same word. Am/is/are, 2nd and 3rd phase of words depending on tenses etc etc. A lot of people can read english but can't do pronunciation because of weird readings. edit; Also Suisei said "I mispronounce that word" but english speakers also do that, even worse. A lot of them learned english as their mother language but still can't differentiate between *they, they are, they're their, their's.* There is also *"ain't no way"* but they slowly realized it's a wrong usage and stopped it.
double negatives in english are common in informal speech in many dialects, just it's neither standard (obviously) or universal and "ain't no way" is *very* popular in the southeastern us
@@AdGarden7438 "Double negative means positive" - Well it can, but it doesn't need to. "Negative concord" is a thing that exists! It's true that what we might call "Standard English" doesn't have negative concord, but really, there's no reason to demand that it never does so. After all, languages change, and all changes are merely "mistakes" turning into "correct usage" over time. I'd recommend the video "The Linguistics of Double Negatives" by Nakari Speardane for anyone interested!
ironically before i knew Vtubers were even a thing i used to look at hentai of Suisei, i really loved her design and just thought she was from a Idol Master game or something. so unfortunately for Suisei that’s not gonna happen in my case, although i will say i respect her singing and personality way more then just her design now, she’s my absolutely favorite Vtuber singer. i like all of Suisei 💗
Pretty sure I first saw of Suisei as a streamer/vtuber before hentai and I do appreciate her as a singer and streamer much more than simply as a "character" (I also find her personality to be really admirable) but I have to say she really does have an excellent design. Like it seriously is one of the prettiest vtuber models out there (and yes, still one of my favourite choices for rule34/hentai. I have to say knowing of her as more than a design only strengthens that part of me, there are tons of really good looking characters I don't care much about I look at "art" of once or something but characters I like for more than just the design I return to multiple times).
Although its nice what she was trying to say, the sex appeal is what really drives most of everything. I doubt there will ever be a point where we don't see people in a sexual way. I think that would be a little unnatural. What I do agree is that there should be a balance where it doesn't promote sexual harassments.
It's a very good pr answer if you want western companies to work with vtubers. Suisei is breaking the mold that many young Japanese women find themselves in. She hopes one day that female vtubers and japanese women won't be valued for their sex appeal, but for their talent, creativity, and unique personalities.
@@genryu_strike7992i mean it's okay to be gay. but we're talking about certain types of straight people being the ones doing all the ridiculous objectifying.
I'm gonna shock you, but you speak using syllables / vowels, not alphabet. Also yeah, when something is written in romaji or only hiragana - usually it is harder to read, at least I spend more time on that rather than regular text with kanji.
@@ViniuauCP Mood, big mood. Without kanji I have an awful time understanding where one word ends and the other begins. In my nihongo course I swapped from pure hiragana to using kanji (with furigana) as quickly as the study material would allow me.
![Suisei Found Bibideba A Bit Too Sexy At First (Hoshimachi Suisei / Hololive) [Eng Subs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tNfnwF04Eag/mqdefault.jpg)
![Suisei Sings Pettan Pettan TsuruPettan & Other Weird Noises (Hoshimachi Suisei /Hololive) [Eng Subs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gFeosBo_fEA/mqdefault.jpg)
Suisei has spent so much time with Miko that now her Japanese is failing
😂miko bacteria infected sui comet.
Yabai!!
You forgot about Miko's Japanese becomes better.
@@shinodamasaru7945ooh, miko stealing the proficiency from people around her.
@@DionDPR told you
02:44
You are amazing to translate this.
Somehow miko catching strays once again😂
Her comedian blood kicks in during crucial time
Comet chan and her hidden skill "good English" clearly misused her other stat points
Sui-pon, now on TV
It's natural that Hoshiyomis thought she meant biased, since she got that new outfit that she has 色眼鏡
Sui-chan being frustrated that she's too competent to be seen as foolish or PON is kind of relatable lmao
Having this convo while actually wearing "colored glasses" is too good
Well, japanese is a difficult and quiet complex language. Also, suisei now looks like one of the Beatles from the 70s. I think it's the glasses that remind me of the 70s.
Sui-kun with the ikemen outfit still can't hold back the cute Sui noises
Suisei: "I'm also not that smart...."
Also Suisei: _scored more correct answers than Miko in that elementary school exam collab_
That's not exactly difficult, is it.
Come on now, can you really use Miko as the standard 😂
@@DinnerForkTonguethat's the joke...
@@dead-claudia Pretty weak joke then. The punchline hits about as hard as a cotton ball.
@@turkeyeater5206 Everyone does when evaluating a holomen's grasp of Japanese
I think in this context "niche" is a better translation for 色物 than unorthodox, but thats a super small nitpick :)
She casually gets a watermellon and doesn't even care.
It's like Cheese nailing a backwards long jump in Super Mario 64, Zero Master nailing another world record speedrun of a Doom map, or Choco being champion zako in Mario Kart. Nuffin' to it.
Well if it was a freudian slip, it’d be consistent with her personality and based as always.
lol the viewers really gaslighting her into believing that she did rock paper scissors
For extra irony, she was literally wearing 色眼鏡 while explaining this.
Classic Suisei Pon
Result of hanging out with Elite too much.
why sui chan and hoshiyomi has isekai moment there.. 😂
Mind you this is the same person who could write her own lyrics.
Remember what Kaichou said. Do Your Reps!
Hahaha! Oh no... thanks for explaining the context!
To be fair, it does sound like it could be a tongue twister... iromono, iromegane...
It's like pronunciation with some words, too... Ame (sweets) and ame (rain). Or shoujo (young girl) and soujo (virginity)... that could lead to an awkward misunderstanding! 😅
That's quite the slip, Sui-chan.
And if Marine, Koyori, and Okayu have anything to say about it, the slip won't be true. Don't know about "not being niche", only time will tell there.
One of the difficult thing about Japanese language is that certain kanji words (or phrases) can have multiple different pronunciation. On the other hand, thankfully, Japanese is not tonal like Mandarin, where a word in different tones can means difference thing
2:45 Here are the literal translations for anyone curious (please look in the replies for additional info):
Iromono - Colored stuff (maybe coined from a time where multicolored objects were unusual or rare, hence the meaning of "unorthodox", or as someone else in the comments put it, "niche")
Iromegane - Colored/Tinted glasses (similar to the English idiom "rose-tinted glasses", but I believe it can be used for either a positive or a negative bias, whereas the English one can only be used for positive bias)
Irome - Colored eyes (not quite sure about the explanation for this one)
sanji heart eyes appeared in my mind as soon as I read this
In Literary Chinese, the character 色 more literally corresponds to 'color in the face' or 'emotion'. It was generally used alone and often implied sexual desire or desirability. Chinese also had/has a lot of terms with that connotation, like 好色 meaning to lust for women (still the same in japanese) or 色情 meaning pornography (means lust or sexual passion in japanese), 姿色 meaning good looks, etc.
From the 900s on, based on chinese usage the japanese also started to use that implied meaning in addition to just the normal meaning of "color" which they got first. 色 on it's own basically meant something to do with affairs or red light districts, and you still have terms like 艶色 for lust or 男色 for sodomy/male homosexuality. That's basically where 色目 comes from.
>maybe coined from a time where multicolored objects were unusual or rare
No need to theorize what is learnable with study. This comes from old theater. The performers names would be listed with traditional oral performers such as storytellers and comedians being written in black ink, and unorthodox performers such as magicians and tricksters written in red ink.
>Irome - Colored eyes (not quite sure about the explanation for this one)
This is what happens when you treat Kanji as "words" and try to "translate individual kanji". Kanji are not words they are characters used to write words. The same kanji can be used to write many different words. On it's own, 色 means color, yes. But it can have many meanings. Try looking up 景色, 脚色, 出色, 物色, 難色. 色 can be used to indicate variety, as in 色々、色んな. It can be used to indicate expression, as in 顔色 face+color, both countenance and complexion. As in 声色 voice+color, both vocal tone and vocal qualities. As in 気色 feeling+color, the feeling or impression something gives you. If something is 気色悪い it grosses you out.
In Buddhist vernacular, 色 means material things, hence the material world, hence the carnal. From there, 色 carries the meaning of "lust". You can look up the meaning of these words. 好色, 漁色, 男色, 女色, 酒色, 色欲, 色情, 色魔.
@@TheTruth-xp2of good post, a lot of jp language learners make the mistake of trying to memorize kanji and their meanings instead of just learning words. It's why I disagree with people using Heisig's RTK.
@@TheTruth-xp2of Interesting. Thanks for the info! ^^
With _"iro-iro"_ actually, I personally thought it was also just a metaphor or analogy of sorts (at least originally), or like a shortening of a phrase regarding something the has different versions of different colors, or a single object with multiple colors, leading to the meaning of "variety". Heck, could that also be how _"iro"_ came to mean material things in Buddhist vernacular, perhaps? Because white often represents purity (and last I checked, the same is true for Buddhism), so colors (taken as a whole) could represent the diverse but imperfect and ever-changing physical realm or something (and by extension, material objects and sexual desires), but yeah, I need more studying to be sure...
Also, although translating kanji by kanji is certainly an imperfect method, it personally helps me with memorization. Plus, it can lead to interesting etymology tidbits like this lol
Considering the Bhuddist meaning of _"iro"_ tho (regardless of whether it was literal or an extrapolated metaphor), I guess I can think of the "extended meaning" of _"irome"_ as being something along the lines of "eyes tainted by/biased the physical world/pleasures of the flesh" then?
Additions:
The Japanese version Wikipedia says that, in Classical Japanese, one of the original meanings of _"iro-iro"_ was "colorful" (which makes sense given that it's a reduplication of _"iro",_ color), tho it seems like it already had the meaning of "various" at the time.
As for _"irome",_ although I haven't dug deep, I was at least able to find out that the literal meaning (when taken as a whole, as opposed to two separate kanji) is "color tone", "shade", or "hue". Other than that, nothing much, although I'm not very fluent in Japanese, so a lot more studying is needed for sure if I want to search sites written purely in Japanese (at least, if I want to do so without the aid of machine translation)...
When she talked about her not being that smart (because of not attending school properly) but also not having the image of being stupid it kinda reminded me of something I have thought about.
I sometimes think Suisei is the smartest idiot I know. Except not really, what I actually think is more like the opposite. More like stupidest genius.
I feel like she is clearly quite intelligent but also has many of her own pon and baka moments. She has been called a bit of an airhead by some members if my memory does not deceive me.
Also it is interesting that how both her intended meaning, the assumed meaning and what she actually said all can apply to the situation of and general outlook on vtubers. It is a shame it apparently got used by haters as fuel thought.
Poor Mikochi..
Suisei sending stray bullets to Mikochi as she breath
3:09 she's closely becoming the same like her partner, in terms of JP hahaha XD ty Yura for the clip
thank you very much Yura for that contextttt. Yura yura, nice good yura yura
nah its easy, specially if you learn it from Miko.
Migo always catching strays from Suisei
Your language stats where reallocate to English that you're Japanese comprehension suffered Cometo-Chan.
Well mistake or no i agree with that point lol
Suichopath…? No, SuichoPONth…!
I thought English slip ups were bad enough, this is a whole new level
4:33 Perhaps the mistake was for the best after all.
I think that though the slander laws are kind of unusual in Japan, it's situations like these where if Cover really wanted to stop the people tweeting suisei's small mistake on purpose to cause trouble, then the laws would actually work in Cover's favour (superficial observation by a person not familiar with japanese law or law in general)
cute half-dumb pon sui-chan!
i am atomic.
2:44 tbh, she's not quite wrong with her mistake from my point of view, and it's quite disappointing.
In France (and in the French speaking market), vtubing has just not taken off like it did in other part of the world like the US or in SEA countries, even though it is the 2nd biggest market for mangas and anime after Japan. On one hand, we are cultured on everything related to the anime culture. But on the other hand. Vtubing is just seen as something for people who are horny, pervert or that lacks affection. They're unaware and thinks everyone is just doing gfe/bfe content because it's "anime"
Well I guess all societies go through that phase regarding perceptions towards vtubing or otaku culture in general 🤷♂️
日本語か…マジ難しい、本当に！
Additionally, I'm learning more and more that 色 is really a deeply contextual character as well as 目 while it was taught in the earlier levels as something more concrete in terms of concept but carries more meanings rather than simply color 「色」(いろ/iro), eye 「目」(め/me)
The FIRST TAKEのcommentを見た人とか、Suisei先輩をよく知っている人は、言葉尻に関係なく言いたいことは理解できたと思うけどね。
めざましテレビは、通勤前の学生や会社員などがジャンル問わず視聴する感じの番組なので、「ん、、？🤔」ってなった人も多かったかもしれん。まあ、出かける準備で忙しい時間だから、そこまで気にしてない人の方が多かっただろうけど。
解釈上手いね～
すいちゃんより日本語上手いｗ
実はこの事件から「色物」と「色眼鏡」を学んだ ^^;
I mean, I know I'm deeply in the minority (especially with just how many boobtubers and bare thighs are flying around) but...I kinda resonate best with Sui's actual statement, even though it's not what she meant.
I didn’t know that Sui chan was a dropout
She has talked about it before she was delinquent. She would go to school just to play mobile games in the toilet.
@@kazedcatoh wow, I didn't know about that side of her either! Definitely sounds like some Suisei would do though 😂
was it mentioned here? did i miss something in the clip what the heck hahaha
either way Im curious which stream was this tackled
@@RadStylezzIt was mentioned in Heikousen Scramble, the radio program Sui had with Tadokoro Azusa. It's over now though.
thanks! i'll try to look it up here in YT if it has clips
Japanese is hard to westerners, yes.
But english is also hard. English also have that weird pronunciations. Same letter have a different pronunciations in the same word. Am/is/are, 2nd and 3rd phase of words depending on tenses etc etc. A lot of people can read english but can't do pronunciation because of weird readings.
edit; Also Suisei said "I mispronounce that word" but english speakers also do that, even worse. A lot of them learned english as their mother language but still can't differentiate between *they, they are, they're their, their's.* There is also *"ain't no way"* but they slowly realized it's a wrong usage and stopped it.
double negatives in english are common in informal speech in many dialects, just it's neither standard (obviously) or universal
and "ain't no way" is *very* popular in the southeastern us
@@dead-claudia Aaand still wrong way to use. Double negative means positive. So, "aint's no way" means "there is a way"
@@AdGarden7438 "Double negative means positive" - Well it can, but it doesn't need to. "Negative concord" is a thing that exists! It's true that what we might call "Standard English" doesn't have negative concord, but really, there's no reason to demand that it never does so. After all, languages change, and all changes are merely "mistakes" turning into "correct usage" over time.
I'd recommend the video "The Linguistics of Double Negatives" by Nakari Speardane for anyone interested!
ironically before i knew Vtubers were even a thing i used to look at hentai of Suisei, i really loved her design and just thought she was from a Idol Master game or something. so unfortunately for Suisei that’s not gonna happen in my case, although i will say i respect her singing and personality way more then just her design now, she’s my absolutely favorite Vtuber singer. i like all of Suisei 💗
She's appeared in an Idolmaster game
Pretty sure I first saw of Suisei as a streamer/vtuber before hentai and I do appreciate her as a singer and streamer much more than simply as a "character" (I also find her personality to be really admirable) but I have to say she really does have an excellent design. Like it seriously is one of the prettiest vtuber models out there (and yes, still one of my favourite choices for rule34/hentai. I have to say knowing of her as more than a design only strengthens that part of me, there are tons of really good looking characters I don't care much about I look at "art" of once or something but characters I like for more than just the design I return to multiple times).
Although its nice what she was trying to say, the sex appeal is what really drives most of everything. I doubt there will ever be a point where we don't see people in a sexual way. I think that would be a little unnatural. What I do agree is that there should be a balance where it doesn't promote sexual harassments.
Agree,it like ask anime looking character look bad for some reason when original idea is become good look in top.. Conflict.. 😂
It's a very good pr answer if you want western companies to work with vtubers.
Suisei is breaking the mold that many young Japanese women find themselves in. She hopes one day that female vtubers and japanese women won't be valued for their sex appeal, but for their talent, creativity, and unique personalities.
I'm for one can't grasp this concept of "sex appeal" in women at all.
@@genryu_strike7992i mean it's okay to be gay.
but we're talking about certain types of straight people being the ones doing all the ridiculous objectifying.
If only Japanese speaks Romaji instead of kanji/katakana...
It would be an awful mess of homonyms and excessively long words.
I'm gonna shock you, but you speak using syllables / vowels, not alphabet.
Also yeah, when something is written in romaji or only hiragana - usually it is harder to read, at least I spend more time on that rather than regular text with kanji.
@@deadlymecuryYeah, kanji mastery really pays off. Just seeing わたし instead of 私 slows me down a bit.
@@ViniuauCP Mood, big mood. Without kanji I have an awful time understanding where one word ends and the other begins. In my nihongo course I swapped from pure hiragana to using kanji (with furigana) as quickly as the study material would allow me.
Thanks for the great edit and translation!