A Look Inside the Brains of the Cybertruck's Battery - Caresoft Teardown
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- We're back at Caresoft as it continues on its teardown of the Tesla Cybertruck. President Terry Woychowski reveals how its broken down to the cell level on the battery pack and also shows the evolution of Tesla's battery control module. There's even a little bit of an evolution on the 4680 battery cell and Caresoft found another Tesla Easter Egg.
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I like Terry’s straight ahead information presentations. Not judging or criticizing how others do it. His attitude and approach, while not very flamboyant, is reassuring and builds confidence in what he explains. I am here for content and personal interest. Thank you John.
No idea who ever else you could be talking about yeah 🥶
Munro definitely went full fan boy
Terry acknowledging his error is very professional. I was on the fence about his opinions but liked his informational videos and this made me appreciate him even more.
I agee, but, I think he'll have to admit another error. I don't think the large electrolytic capacitors were replaced with the MLCCs. Typical large MLCCs are around 50V/100μF IMHO.
Love Terrys calm and thoughtful walk throughs! 🙌
I love how they appreciate the engineering work behind the product without diminishing or downplaying while still pointing out potential ways to improve. Competent and humble is just a great combination.
There was some modeling done that showed side cooling was actually better than end cooling. Basically, the surface area contacting the coolant plate is much bigger with side cooling than end cooling.
Yes i have seen the same. Many say that top or bottom is best (rivian and Lucid for example), but i saw Japanese battery scientists saying their research showed that side cooling is best if you have enough area (like Tesla). Immersed cooling is of course best, but that adds a lot of weight. Air cooling can actually be quite effective to. But everything has it's downsides.
Concern for that for 4680s was the much larger amount of material/travel distance from center of "jelly roll" to the side surface... I thought one of the big advancements for Tesla 4680 was the "tabless" design, where for manufacture but also heat dissipatation, all the power & heat went to the ends of the cell? I thought 4680 batts would have plate not serpentine cooling for that reason... very interesting
@@cgamiga On the bottom of the cell is venting and on the top are electrical connections. Design of this gen2 4680 cell is really good for bottom side cooling, but than again, this is vent side 🙂
And btw, vent is whole bottom portion that pops open, nut just small center rivet (gen1) or ball (gen2) that is pointed as vent in some videos including this one. This is pretty obvious in this video also.
Regarding getting the heat out of the cells, heat is generated by the internal resistance of the cell. Lower resistance means less heat needs to be removed. If they can remove enough heat from the cell with their present method, there's no reason to change.
In addition, with a 4680 cell it is only 46mm across the cell but 80mm vertical so it may be more efficient to remove heat from the side(s) that from the top or bottom.
They also employ tabless battery design, so an electron from the very center of the roll, for example, does not have to travel round and round the whole roll, but just goes to the top of the tube, which means much less resistance due to that shorter distance, which means less heat and loss.
@@AllanSustainabilityFan Good point. The best internal resistance is no internal resistance. - Me
The heat has to travel further to reach an end but it doesn’t have the multiple layer interfaces to conduct across, as the battery is rolled up inside the tube. I believe Terry is correct about this.
The Cybertruck reaches a higher cell temp than the new Taycan/Macan despite the charging curve dropping off at a lower SoC. The cooling is a bottleneck.
@@concinnus Not the same cell chemistries for starters.
Taycans have also been known for some early battery fire cases. Porsche has dropped the charging rate a couple times, and replaced batteries behind the scenes to avoid offering official recalls so far, as they were still learning their own EV production processes.
Tesla, on the other hand, is known to start conservatively with charging curves on new designs these days, then bump those up with software updates - and upgraded Superchargers - as they gather data. They already went through Porsche's growing pains back in the early Model S days.
Extremely informative yet again, thanks.
This guy has such great things to say. I just wish he would speak up. His voice drops off so low that even with the volume on my computer all the way up, I lose what he's saying and then when the interviewer speaks its VERY loud.
I use a amplifier for those guys.
Use the captions. Also 1.5 X speed.
Go see a doctor about your ears, please.
Two commensurate professionals at work.
Thank you for giving us another view on the Tesla world. Absolutely LOVING these teardown videos with Caresoft.
Terry is such a nice guy and of course very easy and interesting to listen to. Thank you both for these presentations
Terry didn't mention during the heat conversation the fact that these are "tabless" battery technology, which greatly reduces the typical resistance of cell design, the main contributor to heat and loss.
That translates to cooler cells that are easier to charge/discharge, making cooling requirements dramatically lower versus a traditional battery design.
They aren’t doing plate cooling anymore so the tabless design doesn’t contribute the overall cooling performance anymore
@@christianedelmann6880Tesla NEVER did plate cooling. You don’t know what you’re talking about. And it IS a tabless design in the 4680s.. at least, every version that was disassembled was. If they’ve changed it.. i’ve seen 0 evidence that that was removed from the design. Tesla has ALWAYS used side cooling. Well, since the first Model S battery designs that were shown.. all through model 3 and Y and now including CT. Maybe the original Roadsters were different.. but who would even care. They have nothing to do with 4680 battery design and cooling.
technically its many tabs
@@christianedelmann6880 Tabless has never been about cooling existing heat. Tabless is a shorter path way that reduces resistance thus less heat is created. This reduces cooling requirement, the only part I disagree with is that it's not massively dramatically different. A measureable difference for sure.
Autoline starts to be a lot more interesting than Munro Live videos
Munro offers a team analysis.
Munro has more entertaining rants.
I appreciate the correction relating to wade mode. Thank you for clearing that up.
Will some educate him on Voltage. We don't use 110 & 220 Volt anymore. 110 went away by 1960. The NEC was changed to 120/240 in 1984.
I don't see how the tiny component are the capacitors, they look like integrated semiconductors.
I would like to see the other side of the board.
I wonder how Tesla can push that amount of current through the copper of the PCB. I have never seen anything like this. Maybe they have a special kind of PCB with very high thickness of copper and they probably use very high frequency to reduce the size of the magnetics and the length of copper.
Also I heard that this board is bidirectional, able to create 120v and 220v from the battery.
This is for sure a GaN design and they are pushing the switching frequency quite high
DC-DC converters use high frequency transformers to keep size and cost down. Typically about 80 kHz.
Looks like you had a few dramatic moments on getting that mica off. Those BB's are GONE. Dry ice?
Heat removal for cylindrical has much more %surface area in contact with the cooling channel vs other formats. Studies show that side cooling is most efficient with cylindrical, up to a certain diameter, this cell is starting to hit that limit.
Snap fit held in place with foam. NEVER moving.
Nice job getting access to the array BMBs. See if you can find the easter egg in those!!
BMS/charger upgrade is impressive
If I'm reading this segment correctly, the entire CT battery pack is not repairable and has to be replaced as an entire unit on failure?
This is how Tesla has done their batteries for a while. On some of the older models third parties have done battery surgery to replace individual cells, and I think it might still be possible on this pack, but it will be a lot harder
Thanks for the insightful look at the battery and the power converter. It is good to hear both the hits and misses in the design.
Always informative
Great work boys. Keep em coming
This channel is so much better than Angry Munro’s Musk fan channel.
Exactly !!! 😂
Best content on youtube hands down!!! This is awesome!! More detail please.
Excellent tear down and explanations.
Electric motors are relatively simple, the electronics needed to power them is very complex.
Correct but no moving parts.
Great work!
Can you measure the power density of the cybertruck 4680 cell and perhaps compare it with the previous one from the model Y? Thank you.
Great video!
I’ve seen that when the coolant hose attachment to the battery pack is damaged, it necessitates replacing the entire battery pack. So even for a minor coolant hose damage, the whole battery pack needs replacing. Is it still the case with the CT battery pack?
That's great video with a lot of details! Thank you. But please let us see the other side (bottom side) of the on board charger of Cybertruck.
Wow!! It has been amazing learning with all this Cybertruck battery pack videos!! Thank you very much for sharing and keep this videos going pls!
Thank you for the video, I also enjoyed the calm explanation from Terry and had no problem understanding the presentation, maybe since I'm a bit like him. But, regarding the physical battery pack design, as a long time mechanical engineer and designer I can't accept that filling an assembly with potting foam is a professional solution, nor a good idea. The fill volume and density is too unpredictable and of course it leaves the pack totally unserviceable. It looks like something I would have built for a science fair project in 8th grade back in 1968. The problem with a round cell is that the elegance of that design concept falls apart the moment you have to package hundreds into a rectangular enclosure, literally a round peg in a square hole. The low-quality coolant fittings and excessive number of connection points concern me as well, adding to the risk of failure. Other EV makers (e.g Hyundai-Kia and VW) have moved cooling to the outside of the pack for exactly this reason. IMO, the balance of product attributes seen here trades away too much in safety and quality in the interest of cost and thermal performance. I realise you can't say that but I can be honest about it.
Hi at 14:40 it's not quite the same kind of transformers. The ones he is talking about is iron core transformers the ones for the Tesla uses iron ferrite core and are switched at a high frequency not 50-60hz like on a regular HV power transformer. Fast switching makes them far more efficient when stepping down voltages. Old technology though. If that cybertruck PSU goes short on the transformer windings it will blast a big hole in the PCB and then the whole PCB will have to be replaced. All this is not for more reliability ,but for energy efficiency and cost reduction because of reduced production costs.
It’s been my understanding that Tesla chose side cooling to have a higher contact surface area to transfer heat across. With the larger radius cells, has end surface area started to approach the side contact area? I’d bet not yet or Tesla would used end cap cooling and enable putting more cells in the pack with removal of the winding cooling conduit, and gain a simpler cooling plate design.
Wish Terry wasn't such a *_low talker_* !
At 15min, there seems to be a mistake regarding the Capacitors, maybe he will correct it in the next video
Those don't look like caps to me at all
You don't get micro farrads without 'plate size' ... that said if Tesla's come up with electronic control technique to massively reduce the need for capicitance ??? .... well I've got my ears out for this.
May be the finger was pointed to little right side during his explanation in Tesla cybertruck
There are actually surface mounted capacitors though, and they look very similar to the ones in the video.
Fascinating info on the voltage converter board. Transformers and power capacitors take up lots of space and are costly to assemble.
Love these but his voice is so soft often I cannot hear what he's saying ... hope it's not parkinsons
An important thing Terry Woychowski did not say about the cell cooling is that the current collectors will carry heat in any direction there is a thermal gradient. Thus, while the collectors carrying heat to the bottom gives more even cell heating and cooling, the current collectors will carry heat around the cell to the contact patch. The contact patch is propable 2.5 times the size of the cell base. Still, for the cooling requirements of most real life applications, a cooling plate across the base would be sufficient and it would mean more cells in the same 2D space. However, the cooling plate would need a hole in exactly the right place for each cell - not hard to achieve, but each hole and the base of the plate would need protection from a thermal runway. If the plate is punctured, all cooling of the pack would be lost.
Wow!! This is top tier electronics and cost cutting. But we have yet to see any of it in an affordable vehicle.
Used
Voltage converter from y and cybertruck are different because they are different frequency and perhaps power ratings. The capacitors in y are big to smooth the dc on the high side. The cybertruck converter does not have those capacitors despite what they say in this video.
I could only hear about 40% of what Terry said, had to use captions. Maybe a headset mic would work better?
Is there anything that will dissolve the blue foam?
Do you guys know how much power can be drawn from 48V DC/DC converter?
Very interesting. We’re in the Wild West, still needing much more r&d.
it is interesting but will be way more interesting to see a comparison of a Rivian and a Ford Lightning components for a comparison
That new CT penthouse PCB is so elegant and the ferrite / PCB-coil combo is amazing.
I don't quite get what's up with the capacitors though... I suspect there on the underside maybe? No doubt smaller / higher frequency.
Thank you, great reveal!
Surface mount super capacitors maybe.
The caps are used for voltage smoothing. I wonder if those are not caps at all but mofsets switching at frequencies to chop the peak and fill valleys? These could be buck converters in lieu of traditional transformers.
At 3:29 , the host thinks a Jelly Roll is similar to a multi-layered Cinnamon Roll. omg Too Funny.
insane electrical engineering
Lol!!! Nothing insane there! Wait till you see GaN valium nitride it's the holy trail of electrical engineering
I suppose it would take someone internal from Tesla but I would love to learn what some of the early adopters issues (software and or hardware based) are coming from. How they got there and what the remedy would be.
I thought these 4680 cells were their dry cathode process and not the typical "jelly roll" that's traditionally used to make all other batteries. That souvenirs that john got would sell on eBay for a mint. I think the old ones from model Y were going for like a k, and more people want to see the new tabless dry cathode cells.
Transformers only work with AC, but batteries are DC
Sandy is playing catch 😢
Finally not that fanboy waffle from munros. Thx showing the systems in detail.
Tesla's rate of innovation must be super scary for legacy auto!
They're paralyzed, but they did get a corrupted judge in Delaware to try and sabotage Tesla. Despicable.
DC voltage is not changed through transformers. Transformers only work with AC. The battery DC must be converted to AC first. DC to DC converters are used for lesser power applications.
Yeah, these tear downs need to be done by very advanced EEs, not auto people! There are many things he got wrong.
You can certainly use DC - DC converters but there are limitations. A high frequency AC circuit using a tuned transformer has higher efficiency and can process more power.
@@philtrubey7480 I agree. How qualified can these companies be to teardown cars and do engineering analysis without the proper engineering staff?
@@andyfeimsternfei8408 maybe they have one guy who does the video demonstration and another who is an electrical engineer and some stuff got lost in translation
DC-DC converters typically are designed to convert DC to high frequency AC, about 80 kHz, so voltage can be changed with a transformer, then the AC output of the transformer is converted back to DC. Not an electrical engineer myself, but that is how they explain it to me.
That capacitor upgrade is a big deal. Tesla has reduced the amount of capacitance they needed and eliminated the electrolytic in favor of some solid polymer caps (over near the end of the board). The old electrolytics have a paste electrolyte and rubber gasket and are one of the only components with a limited life. GREAT to get rid of them. Let me know if you ever want help on content for these. love the content, just need more...
Wrong! They just used regular industry components nothing special and why aren't they talking about the manufacturers of those electronic components?!
wow the capacitor comment is so wrong....
Analysis of the boards is wrong! There is said it, so prove me wrong internet.
I do have a background is automotive audio electronics in particular high power class-D auto amplifier design (DC-AC(HF)-DC-AC(LF) converter chains)
Not sure on the cream coloured transformers, On the model Y I am seeing what maybe out of what he is calls 4 trandformers, what looks like 1 traditional transforer and what maybe 3 inductors. On the cyber truck besides the cream coloured ones I am seeing inductors more than I am transformers.
On the model Y is that also a tranformer hiding under the PCB on the far right.
I suspect that the cyber trunk is running at alot higher switching frequency, so they maybe ditching the caps altogether, as the smoothing via the output inductors maybe enough to smooth out the signal.
I am not expert, but I know enough having run a car audio amplifier brand, where we released our own range of amplifiers, that things seem off to me.
I also have a background in automotive electronics and even Munro's EE "experts" are usually wrong and don't actually have experience in automotive. That said, I counted at least 5 or 6 things wrong with the Superman PCB that wouldn't see the light of day at any legit automotive Tier 1. One more reason I don't own Tesla's.
What I really don’t like about Tesla is nothing is serviceable in the battery pack it’s not like a I phone or a I pad it’s a $ 100 000 vehicle and if and when the battery pack takes a dump the hole vehicle is mechanically totalled yes you can put in a used pack but the price is still going to be expensive compared to a single part replacement it’s a shame coming from company the tel us that they want to protect the environment. This comment is coming from a automotive technician who sees that things needs repair and I’m no EV hater I own 2 VW EV cars and both care have rebuildable pack the parts are all available over the counter.
While it might be ideal to have every battery surrounded by foam, the additional cost may not be worth the benefit.
It may be that sufficient foam is the goal. Additional effort to reach perfection adds cost. Sure, perfection seems a worthy goal. But if it doesn't increase marginal utility while driving up the price, it's not financially reasonable.
Def not Monroe.
So glad you have Terry on these episodes instead of Looney Sandy.
Just reinforces that fact that cylinder batteries is the single worst design decision tesla has ever made. Rectangles are far more effecient use of space, easier to make per volume, and easier to install since there will be less wiring, and you can autually repair larger square batteries where you cant repair these "cells". Dump nmc cylinder already and move to LFP square this year please.
LFP is Brilliant for (Home storage) or a heavy portable powerstation . ( i have one =o) ) LFP is Much safer , But it is Heavy.... and has less energy density ...
The design is not to make it better, it's to be able to manufacture and assemble it with as little labor and costs possible. Nothing to do with better quality. That "foam" should actually be thermally conductive silicone to help pull the heat, so the little physical contact area of the ribbon cooler is not the only means of cooling. Thermal conductive silicone is pretty common in tight electronics for better thermal conductivity.
Plus that PCB designed transformer makes the entire assembly garbage when one transformer fails. Instead of an easily replacable part a reman can replace, now you have to replace the entire PCB.
Realistically, the average wrench turner is not going to troubleshoot down to the component level, but chuck the board. Also, the reliability of transformers is much higher than the other components. High power active elements fail, connectors fail, electrolytics dry out.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Of course I wasn't referring to the average mechanic. I was referring to aftermarket remanufacturers. Just not a good design for longevity or repairablity to use embedded coil windings. And this style of transformer is not as efficient as a normal wound transformer. Sure, may look "cool" but definitely cost savinvg over performance and reliability. As far as electrolytics, not many on the new PCB and quality electrolytics don't have the issue that plagues most electronics with bad caps.
Great review, but the battery design is not amazing, it’s awful. Just one example, there are four sections, and the weakest one will kill the whole battery, why not make them individually replaceable?
SUGGESTION: Videographer, please let your talent "terry" know not to whisper, to keep a same level of voice throughout the video.. specially when your not compressing/normalizing your audio in post....
He might have a Controlling Partner that has Trained him to ( Never Raise His Big Boy Voice ) ... and is stuck in whisper mode... Till someone Gets him Stoned with a Brownie or other Psychoactive... Unleashing The real Man.
heat always go up, so why would you put the plate at the bottom?
That Tesla battery pack is the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. Wait till your Tesla goes out of warranty and things start breaking. your pocketbook will cry uncle. My ICE has been out of warranty for decades, and I still drive it every day. Because my ICE is so simple, I can DIY repair everything on my car myself. And my ICE will still be on the road when the last gizmo laden Tesla goes to scrap yard. LOL
The design intent of the battery is clear...force the insurance company to declare a total loss.
OK grandpa that’s enough Facebook for today…
Good for you. If you enjoy spending your time off under a hood, great.
I'm glad to get rid of a gas pump, oil pump, fuel pump and deadly coolant.
My garage floor is perfectly clean. No smell of oil or exhaust.
I get 300 miles for $4 by charging at home overnight. I just laugh at gas prices.
Ok, grandpa.
Is Caresoft going to sell any of the Cybertruck Cells .? Like Munro had done in the past mentioned likely wouldn't sell many of these due to how hard to remove them lol
Obviously an attempt to compete with Munro. I like both channels.
Ask that guy to eat well... can't even speak boldly in a consistent volume. What a pity.!
He might have a Controlling Partner that has Trained him to ( Never Raise His Big Boy Voice ) ... and is stuck in whisper mode... Till someone Gets him Stoned with a Brownie or other Psychoactive... Unleashing The real Man.
Lots of technology, but the Cybertruck has had quite a bumpy and problematic debut, from premature rust, to fingers getting pinched in the auto-frunk and other issues. Hopefully they can get these things resolved ASAP.
#1 is environmental, not the stainless steel panel rusting. #2 is idiots getting social media clicks.
John, can you please get your 4680 cell weighed on a certified scale, and let your enthusast community know the weight in grams.
It's almost an incentive to buy a Cybertruck/Tesla just to own this technology in your garage. I think including the software these are the most technologically advanced products on the planet. Even more so than airliners.
And after few years, electronics starts going bad, and so will the uber expensive battery. DIY repair? LOL
@springer-qb4dv So you're the internet stranger to argue with today. EV batteries seldom fail and are warranteed for 8 years and 100k miles. They are lasting 250k. Modern electronics seldom fail. Teslas are maintenance free. I've had them 6 years and incremental cost per mile is $ 0.10. Tires and electricity. The autopilot and Full Self Driving are superb. Cross country driving on the Tesla supercharger network is seamless. Charging is quick and easy. A 225 mile round trip from Marco Is.to Ft. Lauderdale needs no recharging.
Looks hard if not impossible to repair when it breaks.
Somebody should make a rechargeable flashlight using a 4680 cell...someday!
Totally different topic. These cybertrucks are going to show up in war zones. Also, despite the weight, what is to stop using these things on the moon or Mars? I suspect the issue would be heat dissipation, since vacuum is not ideal for heat dissipation.
I would prefer if he didn’t use his sex voice to explain Tesla battery packs.
PLEASE dude stop mumbling and whispering!!! Your making a video 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Another bust from Adrian on the Superman PCB! 1.) 80V AlElCaps placed too close together! 2.) No isolation RTV between the AlEl caps so this board wasn't tested under vibration! 3.) DC supply Ceramic Capacitors on U14 and U2 not doubled and placed at right angles! 4.) C136 and C129 misaligned on the pads! 5.) No filet on C186! 6.) Visible graping on C142 and C143 so the reflow temps are incorrect! Now we know why the CyberBusts are failing left and right!
Bro liked his own commet 💀
@@mcsike7264 Nope! Don’t compare me to a famous automotive CEO who has multiple sock accounts to prop up his main Xitter feed!
@@bobbbobb4663 what 😂 you need to touch grass my guy your moms basement needs a brake
@@mcsike7264 Condolences that your PCB is junk. Maybe fast food is in your future.
@@bobbbobb4663 i dont eat fast food am just saying you should leave your mums basement form time to time
There's a massive amount of stuff to go wrong, ICE cars are so simple.
simpler with more parts and systems?
We’ve had over 100 years to refine the ICE engine. We still measure camshafts as they turn and lots of other stuff you don’t need to think about until it breaks. Outside the engine, there is as much or more complexity in the ICE car as an EV with many control modules and signal wires. There’s no logic to where ICE manufacturers place these modules either. The body control module is often located near the rear axle, exposed to everything. What’s simple about that system?
@@barney2001 If you're not a mechanic you wont understand. I count 1000 batteries and BMS full of 1000s of electronic components in the one piece battery holder a lot, every item can fail and will, if you think it's a good deal to pay $20 - 40k because 1 50 cent chip fails them so be it, enjoy the pain. ECU's fail on all cars, non cost $20k+
I would like to see GM's Ultium battery platform tear down, those look much more repairable from the little i have seen about them.
The world has left you behind
I honestly Really look forward to these tear-downs but unfortunately I actually turn tv off 1/3 way throw . I am totally frustrated as the amount of waffling is Terrible imho and with such great Details around say these two battery’s model Y and the cybertruck’s battery’s terrible comparison honestly don’t know what types of people your aiming for but I bet the amount of people turning off is a lot … if you intend to do this please try to take a leaf out of Munro live .. yes it’s your competitor BUT I never 👎 actually turn off the show 1/2 1/3 . Watch in its interiority …!!!
So stop mumbling speak clearly be precise acutely speaking about the product get in there be intricate show detail detail detail …….
Maybe another speaker …???
Sorry but for a company to succeed you NEED positive criticism . More to say but hopefully you get the message . Ps Munro live has had my help in way of some detail . Thanks
Meh... I prefer Sandy's team!
Over engineered tbh
i cant believe these luddites are pushing electric vehicles obsolete technology from the 1830s lol.
Computerization and modern battery technology wasn't around in the 1830s.
ICE is at the end of its development process, Ev's are at their beginning.
why are you ghey?
@@nibotkram7743 computers make electric vehicles worse than the 1830s and a battery is a battery they do the same crap modern batteries still cannot compete with the energy density of gasoline even thousands of years after being invented. ev's are going back into the obsoleted garbage bin where they belong dipstick.
@@nibotkram7743 electric vehicles are going back into the obsoleted ewaste bin sooner than you think. modern ev's are worse than ev's from 1830s atleast you could actually work on those and a battery is a battery they store electricity one is more dense than the other that's just natural evolution just like engines have evolved too bad batteries still havent evolved to be more energy dense than gasoline and probley never will be and will be relegated to the dust bin of history where they belong.
@@billybobbob3003it doesn't have to be more energy dense than gasoline, because you can recharge it, not light it on fire. And tell me more about the electric cars from the 1830s.
Thanks for the insightful look at the battery and the power converter. It is good to hear both the hits and misses in the design.