It's important to note when I talk about the differences here in resolution and frequency regards PAL / NTSC - we aren't actually dealing with PAL or NTSC video signals at all really! The RGB video data for PAL and NTSC are the same, there's no modulation or encoding, just the 50Hz or 60Hz difference. RGB is the same between both, only _csync is going to vary I think. Obviously the RGB data is synced to the vsync and hsync of which _csync provides. Hoglet67 github (code) - github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI C0pperdragon github (adapter) - github.com/c0pperdragon/Amiga-Digital-Video Jan Beta A600 RGB2HDMI - ua-cam.com/video/a063IfVbhoI/v-deo.html CRG - ua-cam.com/video/5JaUkeGv4JE/v-deo.html
I did the same to my A2K. Its good if you want to keep your old hardware running and not having to bother with which newer monitors it will work with. You should however also consider that the Pi can emulate the entire Amiga and more using for example Retropie. I made a handheld device for that also.
I bought a pre built one last year for my A500 last year and it's still sitting in the box! I really should fit but couldn’t get enthusiastic about it for many of they reasons you mentioned. 😀
Great video Chris. The Amiga is still a truly amazing machine. I'm so glad i had one in it's heyday and that i still have a working A500 to this day. 👍
It's great that the Amiga has a hdmi mod now. I personally like seeing the cleanest pixels it can output. But I understand where people rather have the low res hidden behind the analog signal.
Hi! (I should note I'm commenting a few minutes in as I won't be able to watch the whole video today). I designed the purple A2000 one there (you'll see a URL to my GitHub repo on it). I should note I made that one obsolete last year. I designed a couple of different alternatives that solve the sparkling pixel (and other issues) with that version, it also removes the need for the jumper. Not sure if that helps you, but it is a thing.
One final thing to mention, the cropping you were trying to work around was a problem with your TV (and most TVs, but not monitors), by default they crop the outer edges of an HDMI image. There is usually a button on your remote to alter the cropping settings so that the full image is shown (I haven't found a TV that doesn't have this yet). The settings you were changing were source image settings so you were changing the source input height to compensate, I wouldn't recommend doing this as it can cause sync issues if you go too far.
the artists of the eight/sixteen bit era created their software pixel by pixel (unlike today). Every bit was considered, unlike today. I like seeing the results of their efforts (most of the time:)))
Simplicity compared to today, where you need special dev tools (or at least things like 3ds Max and/or Autodesk Maya), a game engine even if proprietary.
Great vid, did one get to the bottom of the over bright especially on the red on the A500. The thing that blew my mind was little to no lag might be a frame or so at most, & great little solution for modern none scart TV's. As RGB scart is great on the A500, if your TV has scart of course.
Maybe talked about in the premiere chat or solved since the filming, the color issues might just be RGB limited vs RGB full. You set the Pi HMDI output mode to RGB full (0-255) - usually HDMI devices use Limited Range RGB 16-235 and most TVs expect that in their default state, too. So try setting your Input on your TV to RGB full or the Pie back to RGB limited
Lots of Pi-s isn't a bad thing Chris! you'll always find a job/quick-fix or prototype you'll want to use one for at some point in the future. I have x4 of the gorgeous purple boards :) I'd say, there was a perfect amount of waffle in this video to feed the inquisitive viewers. I'm happy to up my Patreon if you need more help, I don't need shout outs, happy to support.
The issue with the top of the screen getting cut off looks very familiar. I don't think it's the RGB2HDMI; I used to use one of these TVs as a budget monitor for my PC over HDMI and it would zoom in to cut off an overscan area unless I changed the aspect ratio setting to "FULL". I think on some TVs it's described as PC mode or something like that.
35:00 - It's hard to tell but the flickering could be temporal dithering from the TV panel itself. Many panels have limited colour depth and use an animated Bayer dither effect to give the impression of more colours.
Wow you must have quite the backlog of things, i havnt sold on ebay for well over a year :D ( im on tindie /etsy now). Also should probably mention that the board in the video is a old design, while working great for most is a bit outdated, its recommended to get a cpld based board designed by linuxjedi instead, no sparkling pixels bug and no jumper needed. cheers and thanks for the great content :)
Oh and if anyone want some of those purple pcb's unpopulated to build themselves i can send for cost of postage as i dont build them anymore and i have lots of them left :) find me on discord
With HDMI, if you want to go to a small connector reliably, don't use adapters and find thinner cables which will put way less stress on the mechanical connection. Most adapters are very fragile and I've snapped more than a couple.
Argh -sorry about that =/ It will still be an interesting video! This one of mine is FULL of waffle lol and could be better presented with your own perspective =D
Did you ever find what the issue was with the first Pi Zero you tried to use ? I have exactly the same on RGB2HDMI in an Atari ST, the only Pi Zero I have just keeps flashing the green led but nothing happens.
The problem is the Pi is producing the video - the audio doesnt pass though the CPU socket. You would need to feed the audio inputs into a PCB that can somehow be merged with the HDMI output, but its all soldered in place on the Pi. It would need a custom spin of the Pi creating with an audio input section. Technically I guess a USB device could feed audio input into the Pi, and the Pi could mix it on the HDMI output, but that assumes audio goes out that way as default.
When you said the graphics were sharper and you could see the pixels, I thought the exact same thing when I first saw my Speccy on HDMI. The image is too sharp and clean. :) I'm still getting used to it.
There is a long version of the a500 rgbtohdmi that uses a cpld and doesn't interfere with cpu cards I've got one, it doesn't work for me for some reason but they are available.
@52:23 : On the schematic, going to CN207 B(0:3) only shows lines 1 and 2 - R(0:3) and (G(0:3) show lines 0,1 and 2. - is Blue only 2 bits? (Totalling 8 bits of colour info).
Actually that's correct! I did wonder about that as I watched the premier - it flashed past and I thought I saw 2 connections for blue. So yes, they removed the lowest blue bit there, which is interesting as it does affect how colours look on whatever picks up those signals. And the red and green just use the lowest 3 bits, the upper most bit isn't used. That basically means that analog RGB is going to have a better spread of colours I think.
Yep, this is also one of the reasons why it can't work on the single-slot revision of the A2000. Although if you are careful isolating the top of the Pi with the drive/PSU cage the A500 one will work in any A2000 fine.
Hello Chris We are currently working on a "modern rebuild" of a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k. Most is well (bless it), it loads 16k games, has sound, colour, keyboard keys all working...... but it has the upper 32k ram fitted, but it STILL thinks it's a 16k machine. Already long storry cut short, the voltages are missing to the upper 32k ram chips😏😏🤔 Any ideas Chris (or anyone) what we've done wrong?? 🙄🙄🤔 Cheers Waz n Evans (Wayne Brill & Nina Evans). 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You need to look at the area of the schematics that covers the voltage generation - it's probably a bad ZTX transistor, and or diode. There is a capacitor on some revisions that is marked the wrong way on the board. There is also a small transformer / inductor on there I think, maybe that died?
You should really be using antistatic conductive brushes for cleaning PCBs, nylon bristled brushes are the worst thing to use regarding static buildup. Maybe its worth checking the overscan settings to see if you can resize the screen a little. These are the best RGB to HDMI converters I've seen for the Amiga and much cheaper than external devices. As good as they are, and I use them with my LCD monitors, the best image quality I prefer is RGB, S-Video or Composite on a Sony PVM CRT monitor.
What about for someone using a more capable Pi as a CPU accelerator with RTG via Emu68? I always found needing to switch between the two rather awkward.
I should have said in the original comment. I'd be happy to send the cpld version of the rgb to hdmi, can't guarantee its useable I never figured out what was wrong but if you're willing to have a crack at it at least maybe you'll get a video out of it.
While RGB2HDMI is quite a nice solution for standard OCS modes, at the moment this solution is quite costly. There is not much difference in price between RGB2HDMI + Pi Zero and an Indivison EVS v3 (o.k. about +50%). While RGB2HDMI has HDMI out and Indivision ECS has VGA, you barely see a difference in picture quality. But the Indivision has some very nice advantages: - All ECS-Modes supported (except A2024 monitor), while RGB2HDMI only supports 15kHz modes - No Denise needed, it is an ECS Denise FPGA-Replacement. So you free your old Denise for example to repair another Amiga. If you want ECS, you do not need to buy a Super Denise (so Super Denise + RGB2HDMI + Pi 0 actually cost more than an Indivision ECS) - If you want to go more Retro, you can use CRT without problem I use both, Indivision ECS in some Amigas (CDTV, A2000, A500+), RGB2HDMI on other Amigas (second A2000, A500). Both solutions are good - but with upgrade to ECS I prefer Indivision.
It's important to note when I talk about the differences here in resolution and frequency regards PAL / NTSC - we aren't actually dealing with PAL or NTSC video signals at all really! The RGB video data for PAL and NTSC are the same, there's no modulation or encoding, just the 50Hz or 60Hz difference. RGB is the same between both, only _csync is going to vary I think. Obviously the RGB data is synced to the vsync and hsync of which _csync provides.
Hoglet67 github (code) - github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI
C0pperdragon github (adapter) - github.com/c0pperdragon/Amiga-Digital-Video
Jan Beta A600 RGB2HDMI - ua-cam.com/video/a063IfVbhoI/v-deo.html
CRG - ua-cam.com/video/5JaUkeGv4JE/v-deo.html
It's amazing after all these years that the Amiga is still going strong.
I did the same to my A2K. Its good if you want to keep your old hardware running and not having to bother with which newer monitors it will work with. You should however also consider that the Pi can emulate the entire Amiga and more using for example Retropie. I made a handheld device for that also.
I bought a pre built one last year for my A500 last year and it's still sitting in the box! I really should fit but couldn’t get enthusiastic about it for many of they reasons you mentioned. 😀
Great video Chris.
The Amiga is still a truly amazing machine.
I'm so glad i had one in it's heyday and that i still have a working A500 to this day. 👍
It's great that the Amiga has a hdmi mod now. I personally like seeing the cleanest pixels it can output. But I understand where people rather have the low res hidden behind the analog signal.
Hi! (I should note I'm commenting a few minutes in as I won't be able to watch the whole video today).
I designed the purple A2000 one there (you'll see a URL to my GitHub repo on it). I should note I made that one obsolete last year. I designed a couple of different alternatives that solve the sparkling pixel (and other issues) with that version, it also removes the need for the jumper. Not sure if that helps you, but it is a thing.
Thanks, I will take a look at the new version =D
One final thing to mention, the cropping you were trying to work around was a problem with your TV (and most TVs, but not monitors), by default they crop the outer edges of an HDMI image. There is usually a button on your remote to alter the cropping settings so that the full image is shown (I haven't found a TV that doesn't have this yet). The settings you were changing were source image settings so you were changing the source input height to compensate, I wouldn't recommend doing this as it can cause sync issues if you go too far.
the artists of the eight/sixteen bit era created their software pixel by pixel (unlike today). Every bit was considered, unlike today. I like seeing the results of their efforts (most of the time:)))
Simplicity compared to today, where you need special dev tools (or at least things like 3ds Max and/or Autodesk Maya), a game engine even if proprietary.
Great vid, did one get to the bottom of the over bright especially on the red on the A500.
The thing that blew my mind was little to no lag might be a frame or so at most, & great little solution for modern none scart TV's.
As RGB scart is great on the A500, if your TV has scart of course.
Thanks Keith - cheers for sending me the 500 adapter!!! =D I need to re-visit that red issue!
@@GadgetUK164 no worries 👍
Maybe talked about in the premiere chat or solved since the filming, the color issues might just be RGB limited vs RGB full.
You set the Pi HMDI output mode to RGB full (0-255) - usually HDMI devices use Limited Range RGB 16-235 and most TVs expect that in their default state, too. So try setting your Input on your TV to RGB full or the Pie back to RGB limited
I remember when finding a Raspberry Pi (any version) wasn't as difficult as finding crystal unicorn tears.
great video m8,very interesting
Lots of Pi-s isn't a bad thing Chris! you'll always find a job/quick-fix or prototype you'll want to use one for at some point in the future. I have x4 of the gorgeous purple boards :)
I'd say, there was a perfect amount of waffle in this video to feed the inquisitive viewers. I'm happy to up my Patreon if you need more help, I don't need shout outs, happy to support.
Thanks, very much appreciated! =D
The issue with the top of the screen getting cut off looks very familiar. I don't think it's the RGB2HDMI; I used to use one of these TVs as a budget monitor for my PC over HDMI and it would zoom in to cut off an overscan area unless I changed the aspect ratio setting to "FULL". I think on some TVs it's described as PC mode or something like that.
35:00 - It's hard to tell but the flickering could be temporal dithering from the TV panel itself. Many panels have limited colour depth and use an animated Bayer dither effect to give the impression of more colours.
I thought that was meant to be there as some kind of shimmering glow in the background. 🤣
Wow you must have quite the backlog of things, i havnt sold on ebay for well over a year :D ( im on tindie /etsy now). Also should probably mention that the board in the video is a old design, while working great for most is a bit outdated, its recommended to get a cpld based board designed by linuxjedi instead, no sparkling pixels bug and no jumper needed. cheers and thanks for the great content :)
Oh and if anyone want some of those purple pcb's unpopulated to build themselves i can send for cost of postage as i dont build them anymore and i have lots of them left :) find me on discord
Great job!!! I often just get so far behind as things sometimes take priority etc. Thanks!!!
With HDMI, if you want to go to a small connector reliably, don't use adapters and find thinner cables which will put way less stress on the mechanical connection. Most adapters are very fragile and I've snapped more than a couple.
I've been putting together everything ready to do my own video so beaten to it again Gadget :p Good video though - clear and concise :)
Argh -sorry about that =/ It will still be an interesting video! This one of mine is FULL of waffle lol and could be better presented with your own perspective =D
Did you ever find what the issue was with the first Pi Zero you tried to use ?
I have exactly the same on RGB2HDMI in an Atari ST, the only Pi Zero I have just keeps flashing the green led but nothing happens.
In my case it was just a bad connection somewhere! After reseating and putting the micro SD card in again a few times it worked!
It is strange that the sound isn't routed through the HDMI cable like how it is done on the ASETEK EN9500GT via a SPDIF connection.
The problem is the Pi is producing the video - the audio doesnt pass though the CPU socket. You would need to feed the audio inputs into a PCB that can somehow be merged with the HDMI output, but its all soldered in place on the Pi. It would need a custom spin of the Pi creating with an audio input section. Technically I guess a USB device could feed audio input into the Pi, and the Pi could mix it on the HDMI output, but that assumes audio goes out that way as default.
Only just discovered this Channel, interesting stuff , where are you finding Pi Zeros ? , they are out of stock or discontinued everything I look .
Thanks! I had these Pi Zeros quite a while - I am sure stock will eventually balance out, it's all related to the pandemic =/
When you said the graphics were sharper and you could see the pixels, I thought the exact same thing when I first saw my Speccy on HDMI. The image is too sharp and clean. :) I'm still getting used to it.
There is a long version of the a500 rgbtohdmi that uses a cpld and doesn't interfere with cpu cards I've got one, it doesn't work for me for some reason but they are available.
@52:23 : On the schematic, going to CN207 B(0:3) only shows lines 1 and 2 - R(0:3) and (G(0:3) show lines 0,1 and 2. - is Blue only 2 bits? (Totalling 8 bits of colour info).
Actually that's correct! I did wonder about that as I watched the premier - it flashed past and I thought I saw 2 connections for blue. So yes, they removed the lowest blue bit there, which is interesting as it does affect how colours look on whatever picks up those signals. And the red and green just use the lowest 3 bits, the upper most bit isn't used. That basically means that analog RGB is going to have a better spread of colours I think.
Just checking the schematics - the other missing colour bits go to the other slot =D All 12 get to the card!
@@GadgetUK164 - Ah I did wonder, but couldn't get a clear view from the vid of the schematic - thanks for clearing that up.
Yep, this is also one of the reasons why it can't work on the single-slot revision of the A2000. Although if you are careful isolating the top of the Pi with the drive/PSU cage the A500 one will work in any A2000 fine.
Ooo a Pi zero there is a rare beast.
Haha, yeah - it's pretty hard trying to find lots of ICs and things like Ras Pi's these days =/
What you waould want is a screw and nut combination for ancvhoring it to the 2000 video slot because plastic simply getrs stripped.
Hello Chris
We are currently working on a "modern rebuild" of a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k. Most is well (bless it), it loads 16k games, has sound, colour, keyboard keys all working...... but it has the upper 32k ram fitted, but it STILL thinks it's a 16k machine. Already long storry cut short, the voltages are missing to the upper 32k ram chips😏😏🤔 Any ideas Chris (or anyone) what we've done wrong?? 🙄🙄🤔
Cheers Waz n Evans (Wayne Brill & Nina Evans).
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You need to look at the area of the schematics that covers the voltage generation - it's probably a bad ZTX transistor, and or diode. There is a capacitor on some revisions that is marked the wrong way on the board. There is also a small transformer / inductor on there I think, maybe that died?
You should really be using antistatic conductive brushes for cleaning PCBs, nylon bristled brushes are the worst thing to use regarding static buildup.
Maybe its worth checking the overscan settings to see if you can resize the screen a little.
These are the best RGB to HDMI converters I've seen for the Amiga and much cheaper than external devices.
As good as they are, and I use them with my LCD monitors, the best image quality I prefer is RGB, S-Video or Composite on a Sony PVM CRT monitor.
Just discovered you can adjust all the brightness setting etc in the pallets menu.
What about for someone using a more capable Pi as a CPU accelerator with RTG via Emu68? I always found needing to switch between the two rather awkward.
I love / hate the PiStorm / Emu68 tbh - on one had its super fast, and provides nice RTG, but on the other hand there are lots of incompatibilities.
@@GadgetUK164 definitely, but when you are budget-limited.. Especially for the A2000
Why not use the video from the PiStorm? It has RTG.
The PiStorm has problems with the interrupt stuff - Yes it works with many things, but it also fails to run many of my favourite games properly =/
I should have said in the original comment. I'd be happy to send the cpld version of the rgb to hdmi, can't guarantee its useable I never figured out what was wrong but if you're willing to have a crack at it at least maybe you'll get a video out of it.
While RGB2HDMI is quite a nice solution for standard OCS modes, at the moment this solution is quite costly. There is not much difference in price between RGB2HDMI + Pi Zero and an Indivison EVS v3 (o.k. about +50%). While RGB2HDMI has HDMI out and Indivision ECS has VGA, you barely see a difference in picture quality. But the Indivision has some very nice advantages:
- All ECS-Modes supported (except A2024 monitor), while RGB2HDMI only supports 15kHz modes
- No Denise needed, it is an ECS Denise FPGA-Replacement. So you free your old Denise for example to repair another Amiga. If you want ECS, you do not need to buy a Super Denise (so Super Denise + RGB2HDMI + Pi 0 actually cost more than an Indivision ECS)
- If you want to go more Retro, you can use CRT without problem
I use both, Indivision ECS in some Amigas (CDTV, A2000, A500+), RGB2HDMI on other Amigas (second A2000, A500). Both solutions are good - but with upgrade to ECS I prefer Indivision.
It looks "older" on rgb
turn sharpness down on tv
I prefer not to do that as I use so many other systems with this TV too!