[78] TuBAR (Dual Sidebar) Lock Picked and Gutted Plus "How To" Demo
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2015
- What an interesting lock! While it superficially looks like a variation on normal tubular locks, once we look inside, we see that it is completely different. What, from the outside, looks like 8 pin tumblers are actually sliders with 2-3 false gates and one true gate on each. These sliders are divided into banks of four, with each bank independently controlling a separate sidebar. Based on these components, this lock deserves its reputation as a difficult pick! That said, the teardown/analysis shown in this video reveals certain design features that pickers can leverage to reliably open these locks. I close the video with a pick/gut putting the lessons gleaned in our analysis to good use. Unfortunately, this is yet another example of a UL437 rated lock that does not live up to the 10 minute pick resistance standard... at least when approached intelligently.
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I have installed hundreds of these at Chevron and smaller gas station chains. Considering these are what are keeping the bad guys from easily installing skimming devices and stealing debit / credit card information, it is good to see these are not a piece of cake to get past. While I have found near a dozen skimming devices in the last few years, only once did it seem that someone got past one of the CompX TuBAR locks to do so. I now feel it was more likely the sites key got in the wrong hands.
Skimmers can just be placed over the top of the current card readers these days loc. No one needs to get in
I was a vending mechanic for 24 years, I appreciated your take on the Tubar lock!
Ad that just popped up: "Master Locks - In Stock | Ships Today"
No, I don't think I will.
Not even to pick or take apart? :P
they say, these are good for beginners. not sure if I picked that line up from their Ad, though..
Enjoy your videos, you come across as calm, thorough, very methodical, and informative, and skilled of course, a pleasure to watch. Must be lawyer traits! I'll have to send you an Aussie standard Lockwood cylinder, and a Bilock cylinder in the New Year. Regards, Brian.
+Brian Hignett Thank you for the high praise. You list all the traits I strive for in my videos. As for the locks... I would love to try my hand at them. PM me when you are ready, and think about what you would like me to send you from the US.
+LockPickingLawyer I 'm not looking for an exchange! Only too pleased to send you something. I'm a retired Locksmith - our son runs both our shops now, and safecracking was my number one obsession. However Locksmithing is forever in your blood - it's more than a job. I love watching someone that is good at what they do, and although I consider myself fairly good at spping, you Locksport guys would leave most Lockies for dead, and your skills .... well you seem a natural. I'll dig up the cylinders in the New Year, and send them off. Regards, Brian. P.S. See my reply below.
+Brian Hignett That's very kind of you. Thank you. PM me when you are ready to ship and I'll send you my address... I may be moving very soon, so I want to make sure you have the correct address. Thanks again, and please stop by my channel often. It's nice to have an experienced locksmith around to offer comments... especially considering how new I am to this.
+Brian Hignett Basically what I was thinking of saying.
LPL: this is one of your best videos yet. Thanks for teaching us about this lock. (:
+Simon Klein thanks. This is one of my favorites as well.
Wow! This was a treat, seeing how much you improved on your presentation over the years. You polished your skills, and your onscreen personality wonderfully.
Thanks, LPL
I've been following 'LockPickingLawyer' for several months now and I never cease to be amazed (and entertained) by picking locks, especially those locks claiming 'unpickable'... and that's from a retired police officer. In this day an age, the truly 'unpickable' lock must, by default, involve retinal scanning.
Unfortunately most electronic locks can be bypassed rather than picked it seems. Electronic lock makers need to stop building their locks like consumer electronics...
Bit of a fast forward in time, but it seems like today "unpickable" would probably involve gene sequencing... or welding.
Fantastic video. I love how you analyze things in a serious and entertaining way. Lucky you to have one of these to play with. Would be interesting to have such a lock with the improvements you mentioned: shorter side bars and smaller true gates. Thanks for this great video.
+Potti314 Thanks -- just making the videos that I would want to see, and hoping that showing my analysis/process (albeit in a pseudo artificial manner) helps other people attack these and other locks.
With either bigger false gates or smaller true gates, and shorter side bars allowing for a free moving front plate, would this lock present a real challenge? Would it still be reliable with the key?
Set speed to 1.25 for modern lockpicking lawyer
true!
Underated comment
Love this video!! Thanks for the great breakdown and education!
+LockMan28 Thank you.
Excellent pick, very clever and informative.
Thank you.
Great work LPL always nice to watch you work. Looks like these pick almost like a tubular pin type in a way. Very cool. Thank you for sharing this. If I dont comment again before Christmas, I wish you and your's a Merry Christmas. And to all the viewers on here too.
Thanks, and same to you any yours!
An interesting lock design and pretty cool overall, must get one now. 🍺😎
Very interesting lock.
Seems similar to the usual tubular locks but with some Slight differences.
Thanks for sharing👍🍻🍻🔓😘
+Pick Beard Thanks. It does appear to be similar to a tubular lock on first blush, but when you take it apart, its definitely a much different animal.
amazing picking skills!
great description of these, surprised I don't see these more often as they're a nice design compared to conventional tubular locks. Looking forward to the next videos.
+tacitguardian Thanks. And I agree that these are far superior to most tubular locks... at least as far as pick resistance goes.
Great explanation my friend.
+Jeff Moss Thanks.
We had a key that looked exactly like this on the keyring when I worked at a convenience store - sure enough it was for the gas pumps. (The panel to load receipt paper, specifically; the other panels had a mix of bolts and some other key)
Wow rhats amazing. You're practically famous.
some of my thoughts, my matco tool boxes have some of these locks on them and about a year ago one of the locks failed and i had to brute force open it, this is my experence
1) those side bars that go into the face plate will shear pretty easily if you try and force the cylinder to turn, once you shear the side bars its impossible to get any leverage to attempt to force the lock to turn
2) the way i ended up getting it open is whit a carbide rotary file and about 15 mins i cut enough if the face and housing i was able to use a chisel get the front of the lock apart and all the pins out
3)overall i thought that the brute force entry was pretty difficult but i was also trying to not damage the tool box around it.
Luis Valenzuela thanks for sharing I have a Matco box with the same lock, do you know why it failed? I’m hoping to avoid that.
Excellent autopsy Sir. This lock would have felt really alien without that knowledge. Would have been quite expensive to make too.
watched lots of your vids. this on i learned the most from. thx
Very impressive. Well done!
+Steve Forrester Thanks.
Thanks for making that video. I made a fool of myself before watching this. I was saying how I could get it open in a couple of minutes...then went in blind. Maybe I can prove myself tomorrow
Matco tools now uses these on their tool boxes
Actually they’ve been using them for 20 years or longer.
Looks like a good lock
I looked up this video because of the lock on my matco toolbox haha. Took forever to find out what they were called.
Hello my name is Clay I hope it’s OK but I put a link to this video in one of my videos where I was changing the locks on my Matco tool box. Unfortunately because the locking ring on my toolbox was non-replaceable at the time I was on able to replace it but I think you very much for the video God bless and have a great day
very interesting, thanks for sharing
+TheMorePerfectWay Thanks.
Learning how to pick locks from a lawyer... fascinating! 😄
Thanks. Lost the TuBar key to my toolbox. I'm going to try this.
GREAT INSTRUCTION…..THANKS
Hey LPL, any word on whether they have changed the sidebar vulnerability since you made this? Sounds like it would be significantly harder without that.
I've notice that on many locks the false gates are very different in contour from the true gates. How hard would it be do machine all gates with a tool that would leave a "peg" in the middle of them that didn't reach quite up to the height between the gates, and then machine off the pegs of the real gates? I would think that would make it much harder to feel a difference between real and false gates, especially if the later force from the "feeler" was limited.
I don't think it would help that much. The "flaw" is a combination of design and tolerance. As for design, the rounds edges of the gates help facilitate the attack. Perfectly square corners would be better. Second, the sidebar/slider fit needs to be perfect! that's expensive and, aside from the cost of making a "perfect" lock, such tight tolerances have other issues. Most notable, it's harder to make the lock operate smoothly.
Fantastic video mate. Really educational. Thx for it. Do they still make these locks?
+Papa Gleb Thanks... I'll email you for a little info on why I went into so much detail. I'm pretty sure that they still make these because there is a good deal of marketing material on CompX's website, but I don't see them for sale. I suspect that's because they only do commercial distribution, but I'm guessing on that.
Do you have any tutorials on your channel? Like a basic lockpicking 101 type thing?
I have had to look up what binding, shear line, false sets etc are. Still not completely sure.
Chris MCMLXXXII He and BosnianBill have a lot on that.
Very good
Would be cool if there was a double-sided Dix Pix to manipulate the lock.
yeah but can you do the keset lock. compx national makes that that lock which is called tubar but they also make one called a keset lock. it looks tubular but it's not. I have yet to see anyone who can pick a keset lock.
How would one pick this if the sidebar wasn't as long and the true gates not as clearly distinguishable from the false gates?
what pic are you using?
Not quite understanding how the side bar and D shape interact?
When gates line up I assume the D shape moves slightly backwards?
Not sure how this opens it.
I don't think it matters, but I don't think you got the pins in the right order. As I understand it, 1 & 8 should have the same length for the true gate, then 2 & 7, 3 & 4, and 4 & 5. But looking at the closeup at 11:10, I thought 1 matched 7, 2 matched 6, 3 matched 4, and 5 matched 8. Am I being too finicky, or are the tolerances that poor? I did notice that not all false gates were duplicated, which I thought was smart.
The reason the sidebars are so high as to stick into the faceplate is because of the key; it only goes down far enought to rotate the faceplate itself, so it needs te sidebars to carry that rotation down into the core.
+hellslave Perhaps, but I don't think so. If the sidebars were shorter, the lock would tension off the pins/sliders and still work perfectly.
+LockPickingLawyer
Looking at it again, you're right. My mistake. :P Anywho, where'd you get ahold of one of these locks, anyway? Also, you should stop by r/lockpcking (Reddit). Lot's of good discussion there.
+hellslave No worries... it's always hard to understand how everything works together until you're holding it in your hand. I got this on Ebay... The auction didn't mention TuBAR. It was a large lot of cheap t-handle locks (mostly Chinese tubular, but a few Fort Gem and Ace II mixed in). But my sharp eye caught a few of these mixed in the pile, so I bought the lot just for the TuBars. Re: Reddit... I may check it out, but probably just to browse. I'm too lazy to check more than one LP forum. :-(
+LockPickingLawyer a sharp eye is key on eBay and I feel you on the lazy part. One board is already time consuming if your active.
cool, where do you feel the gates wiggle, in the pick or the tension wrench?
+JB Thanks for watching. On this lock, almost all feedback is from the pick/probe... the tension wrench is pretty dead.
+LockPickingLawyer
thanks, glad there are focused ppl like you to figure this stuff out. I would of went all A.D.D. on it for a while and went to Google. I think I have the light handed touch needed. Only been picking for a couple months but I learned spools in about a hour, took 3 days to get serrated pins down tho. That 6 pin 1100 was my 1st serrated that I know of. once I took the length of the pins into consideration and estimated how many clicks I should get by length to lift without over setting I got it in under 2 minutes. you and bills videos helped me get thru it and I appreciate it a lot.
I am still wondering if we can single pin pick difficult tubulars with the tubular lock pick by taking most of the tension bands off and sliding 1 pick down the tool at a time. I dont see why it wouldn't work.
+LockPickingLawyer
if we can figure away to secure each pick after the pin is set on that tubular idea then we can use the same tool with that modification. there has to be a simple solution.
+JB
tubular solution?, we add extra tension bands and pick each pin separately on those alternative spring tubular locks.
+JB The answer is yes, you can spp with the tool IN THEORY. However, I've tried it and have not been successful. The wires are too hard to manipulate IMO. The SPP method I use is much easier for me. Different methods may work better for you, so give it a shot!
Me and the boys about to get all the free soda
Can't You get Mrs LPL interested in lock picking? 😂
As I watched the explanation of the lock I thought "Could you make an impressioning tool like those used on tubular locks?" Who knows in videos above 1500 we could hear "the second pick Bosnian Bill and I made..."
My matco tool box uses this lock.
Seemed really good if only those bars were shorter to not invite the tension wrench
+Not Pulverman shorter sidebars would definitely give this lock more bite!
doyou work with repo companies?
Nope, at least I never have.
Matco tools uses this style of lock on their tool box and carts
Matco uses the same style on their toolboxes
This looks a lot like the lock on my toolbox.
Matco? Matco used these locks as a high security upgrade on many of their boxes. The lock should look identical, the only differences being the Matco key has an octagonal bow instead of the rectangle bow and it will have a chromed, hardened steel rotating collar. I installed the same lock in my box, it's about as solid of a lock as you're going to get for the application. Beats the snot out of the "high security" tubular locks Snap On uses.
@@tdb19872 It is a Matco box. My dealer did say it was a very good lock, but of course I wasn't paying attention at the time because the Snap-on key looked "cooler". In retrospect, this is a very nice lock and a very good box too.
My Matco tool box also uses this style lock.
I work on gas pumps and have been wondering how the hell these are picked
Lightsabers on thumbnail
Paused at 1 minute, thinking... Looks like one of those tubular locks, only flat. Let's see if I was right.
Are you actually a lawyer?
That's enough teaching anyone how to break into
A tool box or security lock.
Insurance for what they protect is hard to get.
Stop teaching the method
To steal from people who work so hard for their children's future. Now knock that out of your memory. Let the dealer service these locks and keys for the rightful owner
If you think people are going through the trouble of learning how to pick all manner of different high security locks you are greatly mistaken. This is a skill, and very difficult one to master. I've been at it for years and I have an extensive knowledge of how these different locks work and I still suck at it. Anyone who wants to steal your stuff will simply break the lock or break something else bypassing the lock completely. That is how thing's work in the real world, life isn't a spy novel. Also, insurance is cheap and easy to acquire for tools, in fact, most home owners and renters policies cover your work tools, mine does.
@@tdb19872 then if I go open the drawers of the undamaged high security locked roll cab, you're saying, that in your "real world" the tools and parts will rematerialize,. Or will have actually have been there the whole time. So,. Why,. Why, oh, why did I find them for sale on offer up and go identify a portion of them at a pawn shop? Are you going to say I repurchased my own tap set because I pawned it in my sleep? Then why didn't the man know me and ask for a pawn ticket ? Instead,. He sold me the goods, and allowed me to offer a price. I reduced it and showed him things he didn't see about my tools he didn't know. They devalued the price. How was it then in YOUR "real world" that this is possible ? I suggest having knowledge of how to open a lock can make it easy for people who have excessive spare time and opportunity to try and try again till they get it open, and they see these tutorials as a challenge to achieve what they set out to do , no matter how long it takes them. And the insurance having a deductible, makes the goods not covered because they go by any one incident with a police report. If expensive taps are priced $350 new, and these are used, and certain tools are out of a set, but the policy had a 500 deductible, that adds up to....hmm....let's see,. That adds up to NOT COVERED by insurance. Especially for trade tools,
I know it now, the ins agent knew it, and the thieves knew it. Any one tool is not at that one's location, now. It's resold or for sale somewhere else. It's also how I unknowingly repurchased my own cars wheels and thought I was paying to ship them across the USA, there just isn't another set like them with the same damage, and marked by the body shop in the same way. Then witnessed, and investigated, and part paid by reduction in the price they charged me for my goods. I suggest the real world is a bucket of diarrhea, and too big to carry on the person's shoulders that's the victim in this, my children , now rest your thumbs, and let the truth come as you have this realization. And watch the video where the kid shows how he makes a key work in a random door by treating it with Lysol spray. Then agitating it in the cup. Then get a handle on your newly found real world. And go browbeat him, he doesn't care, he breaks and enters, because he learned that instead of hard work. But now, he taught that to every kid that watches, sitting home in his parents house , with no prospects, and medication. And junk food. Tomorrow's thief is today's video viewer. In the real world. But now I'm certifiable too. For having observed this kind of thing, and the frustration of having it put back on me, when I worked the hours and made the money to purchase my goods new by figuring out difficult repair that others couldn't find, much less solve. The Workin Man is worth his wage, and earns it, and you use him for a dog to kick on the way to meet your knowledge of the truth. I will ask the maker to see it your way, what will be the result? Let's get rich inventing wet suits made of asbestos. Or, let's realize the truth is veiled until it's unveiling !
@@misnlinc48 Put down the crack pipe bro.
@@tdb19872 this reply of yours is supposed to appeal to the schadenfreude mentality??? Why is there no English word for the concept?. You just became suspect.
Not quite understanding how the side bar and D shape interact?
When gates line up I assume the D shape moves slightly backwards?
Not sure how this opens it.