It's horrible that a park empire that was built on the concept of nostalgia can't even allow its own nostalgia to endure. I want Test Track, but I want Test Track AND World of Motion. I want Horizons AND Mission Space. Eisner may have "ruined" Disney, but right now Chapek has a good many people willing to hold his beer. Offer less, charge more, destroy what people love. It's not even a "what would Walt have done" issue anymore, it's "what would a sane person do?"
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 Eisner ordered the removal of audio-animatronics - closing great attractions and putting up billboards - (DCA's mural entrance walkway) and calling it an attraction.
We don’t have a positive view of the future anymore. Which is crazy because whether it’s Tomorrowland in Disneyland from the 50s or Epcot from the 70s this was the period of the Cold War when everyone thought nuclear destruction was guaranteed.
I agree with all of this. It’s heartbreaking when people think Epcot is the worst park. They don’t know what it once was and what it was meant to be. “More Disney” is absolutely not what Epcot needs. 😢
I'm of the opinion that it is actually the worst park, but for the reasons laid out in the video. It's a place that just no longer interests me because of how poor the experience has become.
It does need "more Disney" though...but not Disney movies or other Disney-owned properties. Early EPCOT Center was always extremely Disney in its approach to theme park storytelling, and, to me, classic theme park history is much more Disney than any property they acquire (i.e. Marvel or Star Wars). For example, Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are now cornerstones of the greater Disney Parks brand, and they weren't originally based on anything Disney owned. Similarly, Figment has remained a popular icon for Epcot merch and events despite the poor state of his attraction, yet I can't imagine Disney in 2021 taking a chance on imagination and letting Imagineers create a new WDW ride not based on one of their intellectual properties. The "more Disney" that modern execs need is to understand that the original stories that used to be told (and are still told and beloved) in theme parks can be just as important to Disney as animated Disney movies.
Thank you for pointing out that Chapek's definition of "more Disney" is not an accurate one. Especially considering Walt's original EPCOT vision and even the way it was transformed into an innovative discovery park. I feel sad for EPCOT and it's fans.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Quality is what has always been my selling point as well but I do think there is a market demographic that really does just think of the IP :\ I remember so many times in my childhood were I'd talk about how amazing Disney parks were and then people would be perplexed that I had no passion for most Disney films. To me it was always the unique imagination and sense of place the parks have, very different from film and why I think of Imagineers as masters of their craft.
My favorite Epcot memory is from my first time visiting in 1989. At the end of the night the park had cleared out and Horizons was a walk on. My parents and I rode it three times so we could try each of the endings. It will always be my favorite ride at that park.
It's crazy to me that Eisner shelved it in favor of Mission: Space. He even had plans to clone it for WESTCOT and Disneyland Paris, so the move is all the stranger.
If you haven't been there are still real gems in Epcot. As this video highlights Spaceship Earth but I'd also say American Adventure is pretty good even though it's a show and not a ride ;) None ever rose to Pirates or Mansion levels in my book but this video highlights their strengths rather well.
It was unreal I remember the 60s section it was outdated at the time but my mind was blown it had the opposite effect it was like wow this is what people thought the future would be like
That reminds me of a quote from Joe Rohde: "Fun. In the business of entertainment design you will come across people who will say, “Why can’t it just be fun?” This question is often actually an accusatory form of micro-aggression, and really means…”Why are you wasting so much time on intellectual BS and overbred aesthetic sensibility?” But there is a logical answer. Fun is cheap. I can have fun in an inflatable pool in my backyard. I can have fun playing basketball by the garage. I can have fun watching videos of snarky cats. This fun costs very little. An inflatable pool costs 50 bucks or less and can be used many times. A trip to a major entertainment venue like a Broadway play or Theme Park can cost many hundreds of dollars per visit, all in. So…are these places just plain fun? Are they hundreds or thousands of times more fun than shooting silly string at each other on the porch? Probably not. Therefore, fun cannot possibly be the motivating factor in the compulsive, repetitive, over-scale patronage of the theme park industry. The motive is simply not competitive enough based on other options. People must be paying this kind of money and making this kind of effort for a reward that is of higher value, more rare, and of greater impact than fun. That reward is many things, among which is the sensation of transport, of being moved magically into another place or another time. It is the intensity of experience which results in permanent memories. It is the rare sensation of cohesiveness, harmony, and thematic organization which allows the human brain to relax and be absorbed. I could go on. But all of these properties reside in the obsessive execution of coordinated detail, resulting in places with a strange otherworldly attraction. And that is not cheap. In fact, theme parks are repositories of human time, effort, and, yes, money…which guests sense through the level of detail, organization, and intensity. Theme parks are a form of communication between designers and audiences… They are relationships. People like worthy, meaningful, invested relationships… Not cheap ones."
@@PoseidonEntertainment I really loved Joe Rohde; one of the GOAT when it came to Disney Imagineers. He was one of the reasons why Disney has been predominantly unique from other theme parks and a genuine experience.
Inspiration is such an intense and great feeling too. I remember going into “Living with the land” and feeling truly inspired. Such a simple ride and such a simple concept, yet it gives that feeling of wholesomeness if you allow it to.
I just wanna say that, as a fairly young person who has grown up in the internet age, I find all these attractions about how old technology functioned to be really fascinating. Maybe there would be a period of some years where these attractions felt outdated, but I feel they would've cycled back around to being incredibly interesting after a point (although I guess it wouldn't be profitable for Disney to keep them during that period). Anyway, just my thoughts, loved the video!
It is heartbreaking that they destroyed these incredible attractions, the loss of Horizons being the greatest of them all. They were built by the best and most experienced imagineers Disney had. They (Disney executive management) literally had no idea what they had. A complete failure of imagination.
Well, I would rank Spaceship Earth (prior to last upgrade) and Universe of Energy higher, but point well taken. My only major complaint about Horizons would have to be Disney should have upgraded some of the more prominent audio animatronics. But the core story was amazing. For Horizons & Universe of Energy, Disney saw attendance greatly decline, and figured they needed something to attract teenagers who wanted Knott's Berry Farm, Cedar Point or Six Flags instead.
@@asklouie I have read about the infamous sinkhole. I have also read that Disney determined it could be foxed/filled in, though it would take more than a year of downtime. In any event, Disney admitted (Eisner mostly) they needed to get more teen boys interested in visiting, and management felt a thrill ride would best accomplish that. I feel they made a bad choice. More due to losses incurred along the way.
I’d rank Journey Into Imagination as the greatest loss, because it had a Jules Verne/steampunk aesthetic that didn’t age, and because Spaceship Earth has managed to retain much of its character.
I really enjoyed Horizons and the original Living Seas. The hydro lift was so cool. I also really enjoyed innovations. When they had all the video games and the gadgets you could mess around with. Oh well I’m glad I have the memories.
I would say chasing popular Ip's killed Disney more than anything else when it comes to their amusement parks. They trashed good rides that people liked in favor of some new hip movie. The problem was by the time the project was constructed often that "new hit movie" was old news and the kids who grew up with it were already teenagers. Yet Disney seemed to almost hate any successful ride that wasn't part of their animated collection. I think they disliked the fact Figment was probably more popular than say Donald Duck or Minnie mouse.
When I went to EPCOT, I was inspired to go into STEM fields of work, I wanted to be an imagineer, I wanted to be someone that pushes the boundaries of science, even if that isn't who I am today, that want was still there. I can't go to "EPCOT" today and feel inspired to innovate the world of tomorrow anymore. This is going to harm generations to come, they'll only think of it as another place to go on some rides and no more. If people aren't willing to want to learn, then make them! That's what it used to be, education and fun in one package, that's why I loved going through places like the now retired and demolished innoventions (I've mentioned this on other videos of his). I think the park is beyond saving now, it doesn't feel like an experimental prototype community of tomorrow anymore.
I got inspired to go into computers because of this, and now they say they are still trying to preserve Disney's original plan, but now I don't see what good they have done so far. The character themes in my opinion will ruin everything.
In some ways I feel like Epcot shared some DNA and, sadly, a fate with Star Trek. In a single decade we were given two properties that inspired a generation to go into the sciences and think optimistically about the future, and the decades that followed saw a steady, gradual loss of that spark. Criticisms of modern Trek mirror those of Epcot. That they've lost their way, lost a creative vision, and changed their priorities. For me, I feel a mix of frustration that nobody at Disney seems to realize that Epcot IS its own IP that can be developed and expanded on, and sadness at the damage done by this lack of perspective. I'm also deeply disappointed at how happy people seem to be with pessimism and angst. When things aren't going well, the nihilist and the defeatists don't make things better, and the selfish opportunists make things worse. Solutions come from people who see potential in the future, and it's important to have things that inspire that in us.
I know it sounds dumb, but I've always felt personally connected to Epcot, even as a little kid. One of my earliest baby pictures is my dad carrying me in front of Spaceship Earth right after it opened, and the 2 other times we went back, we always seemed to spend more time there than the other parks. It was just a really special place and time I think.
Epcot Center was such a special place. I’ve been greatly disappointed with how it has been managed over the years, especially the destruction of Journey into Imagination. I first went as a kid in the early 80s and fell in love with the place.
It’s not dumb at all. I absolutely feel the same way! My love of science was definitely shaped by this park. I understand the need to move on, but sometimes it feels a bit like little pieces of you being ripped away.
I only knew the Eisner version, but even then Epcot still held that special place among the other WDW parks. I'm glad that you were at least able to experience the classics.
This video is a perfect essay on why the original EPCOT was important up until the early 2000's and how it evolved. I noticed however that you didn't include Wonders of Life. It wasn't original by any means, being the last pavilion to be built in 1989, but it had an interesting history in such a short span of time at the park and it never got updated or changed much at all. I grew up going to the park when Innoventions was dying its slow death in the mid-late 2000's, but at least back then we still had Energy, the Original Test Track, a competent Spaceship Earth, and a still true to theme land pavillion. Now it looks like we only have Spaceship Earth and the Land. All of these newest additions; Guardians, Frozen, Moana don't belong in the park in any way. Donald in Mexico and Remy in France get a pass because they are fairly well tied to the country they are in. This new vision of EPCOT is a true insult to Walt Disney the person as well as the glorious past of imagineering and the fans who loved what the original park and it's early years were. Chapek and the new leadership don't give a damn what the fans want, only the once in a lifetime guest who just wants to see characters from TV and movies at the parks. Chapek and Iger make Eisner look like a saint in terms of creativity and management. Yes, Eisner had a rough time after Frank Wells died in 1994, but his first ten years were excellent. Eisner saved Disney just so Iger and Chapek could shit all over it.
I agree with you 100%! Back when Bob Chapek first announced the EPCOT overhaul back at the 2017 D23 Expo, I started to feel like that there is no hope for EPCOT under current Disney management.
When I was 15 in 1983 my parents took me to Disney world. I ended up spending twice as much time at EPCOT than the main park. I loved it. Watching this video brought back a lot of fond memories of that place. I saddens me to know it's only a shadow of it's former self. I always considered going back but from what I've heard lately I'll never spend another dime on anything Disney creates.
I wouldn't say the old EPCOT attractions were outdated, rather they just need to be updated to fit the times better, like how Disney updates Pirates and Haunted Mansion with new scenes. Lets hope with the new Spaceship Earth this is done well.
Yes! This is what the people who say "diSnEy iS NoT a MUSeUm" don't understand. They could have updated the attractions while keeping the spirit of the attraction, not completely overhauling it into an irrelevant, new attraction.
Too bad MOEBIUS (Jean Giraud) is dead :/ He would have created the greatest updated vision of tomorrow. He was the mind behind the vision of The Fifth Element, Heavy Metal, Tron and The Empire Strikes Back.
I went to Epcot in 1999 so I saw some of the last vestiges of epcot center. I was interested in coral reefs and fish so the Seas was my favorite exhibit. I eventually got a degree in marine biology and though I don't work in that field, the subject means a lot to me. I loved finding nemo, but I refuse to ride the replacement for the original show and go into the aquarium from the back entrance. There are coral colonies in some of the tanks that are still alive today that I saw in 99 so I enjoy pointing out to my family and friends the corals that I am certain are over 20 years old. If it ever got fully revamped and those corals removed I would be very sad.
I hate saying this, but if it weren't for the animals in The Living Seas, I am somewhat confident the Disney of now would have torn this attraction down, or at least gutted it to replace it.
Terrific tribute and salient insight. The original EPCOT Center, particularly Horizons and TLS, got under my skin so much as a teen and in my early 20s, it inspired my book series, decades later. The hints are evident throughout. For me, Seabase Alpha never went away - it simply became more real. :)
That whole opening video, the "Welcome to Seabase Alpha!!" on the speakers, and then the doors popping open to reveal what we just saw.. Oh,man.. 40 years later.. it still sticks in my memory..
I teared up at the orange grove…I too got to ride this wonderful attraction close to its last day. My brother and I went on it like 5 times. Afterword, it broke my heart to see it vacant and seemingly forgotten overnight.
My first visit to EPCOT was in 1985. I was on a convention trip and felt a little awkward going by myself. I had never done that before. As I walked in, I immediately noticed many other people coming in alone. It was fantastic! I saw all the attractions shown in this video. And the countries were serviced by people from those countries. It was delightful talking to them. When I was in China I saw a trinket that was more than I wanted to pay. I remember the clerk saying that if we really were in China, we could haggle a bit, but not at EPCOT. I bought the trinket because I wanted to remember the story!
I want to thank you immensely for this incredible and well-put together analysis of the attractions that defined classic EPCOT Center and why the idea of them becoming outdated is a myth. Having been born after all of the changes in the 90s, I only ever got to experience vestiges of the original EPCOT Center; El Rio Del Tiempo & Maelstrom, the '94 version of Spaceship Earth, Living With The Land, Ellen's Energy Adventure... It is so refreshing to hear such an amazing presentation of the argument that EPCOT Center, save for the exhibits/shows in places like Communicore, never really became outdated and only got into the sorry state it's in currently first because of Michael Eisner losing his touch in the 90s and making miscalculation after miscalculation because he never understood EPCOT Center, and now both Bobs (Iger & Chapek) essentially killing what little is left of the original concept. As a now passionate fan of several classic EPCOT attractions I never got to experience, this video was wonderful to see!
Love everything about this video essay. I would posit that while people say things were updated because they were becoming "outdated," maybe what they really mean is they were being seen as "boring" or "stale." Although, had they received regular updates and maintenance, maybe that could've been prevented (like Pirates and Mansion). Also, Wonders of Life was an interesting one to me. That pavilion came later and felt "dated" almost immediately," closing before others that had been there much longer. Maybe that's a story for another day though?
I completely agree with your first sentiment, but part of the reason I framed it as "technologically out-dated" is because it's an argument that I constantly see everywhere online. I'm of the opinion that Disney has a number of great attractions that should stay because they reach the heights of many classics, but could use significant updates to keep them fresh as with Pirates or HM as you stated. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I consider Dinosaur to have reached this status and I hope that with the upgrades it received back in 2017, it'll still be around for the long haul. When I produced the video, I did consider the impact of WoL but it never felt like it fit into the fundamental Epcot experience. It very much seemed like the first step in what would be Eisner's transformation of the park and while not inherently bad, I agree that it was kind of dead from the start.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Your thoughts on the IP driven re-do’s becoming outdated more quickly is eye opening. I wonder if one day we see Jack Sparrow removed from Pirates, as they removed the opening scene overlays. I feel they’re holding that classic back now. And YES, Dinosaur is a classic. It has succeeded beyond its IP relationship, to become a classic dark ride in its own right. It deserves to stay forever as much as Spaceship Earth or Mansion in my book.
@@ThemeParkStop I have to say, I see no harm in leaving Jack Sparrow. Why? He replaces generic characters, or is simply added to scenes. I know there are plenty of people who forget about Depp being in the attraction. (I don't care if they remove him either.)
@@ThemeParkStop The removal of the mist screen was absolutely welcome. I remember liking the original trilogy of Pirates films but finding the inclusion of the film elements into the ride distracting and unnecessary when it first appeared. Even as a young child, it felt pandering and distasteful.
I agree in some parts, some IPs like Honey I Shrunk the Kids did become outdated but I hardly see classic animated features like Ratatouille (that's already 15 years old) or even Frozen which will stay as a Disney classic even though I personally don't like it as much, becoming themselves outdated. But I do agree that they should've done a bit less use of IPs, maybe Frozen was best for MK or Guardians in Hollywood Studios and even other IPs fit better in EPCOT like Inside Out or Wall-E but were not included in the new renovations. But I have to say some attractions in the old EPCOT needed to be replaced, for example the Universe of Energy and Ellen's energy adventure were just too boring, too much movies and in the case of Universe not very much fun, focusing only in education which needs to be balanced with fun, and Ellen was just so outdated with the same ride system based on stoping the car everytime time to see a movie or the pop culture, writing and even the science and in the case of World of Motion for me the ride was a bit too much like Spaceship Earth, so Test Track there was welcome addition, Nemo could've worked, but it was badly done and finally we reach Horizons and Imagination, the closing of both was probably the biggest mistake ever done in EPCOT, those are truly classic and timeless attractions. For me EPCOT died in 1999, ironically the year I was born, when Horizons closed and what I most miss on EPCOT today is the shared vision and hope of a better optimistic future for humankind. (Sorry for any misspelling or odd writing, english is not my main language and I just wrote too much of it)
Cause that's why I'm a rooter, for me computer. Everybody needs a friend! The original Epcot soundtrack was great. Horizons. World of Motion. Universe of Energy. The Living Seas. Kitchen Cabaret. Journey into Imagination. Captain EO. Rest in Peace.
The various soundtracks were definitely dated and products of their time, but that's a large part of the charm I think. It would be great to hear orchestral versions of these various themes being played around the park today.
@@PoseidonEntertainment it would be great if Disney released albums of their past amazing recorded tracks. They complain about guest spending, then refuse to provide things a good segment of their guests want.
I loved Horizons. It always smelled like oranges. The theming was top notch. My family first visited Epcot in 1988, so I got to experience the park as it was meant to be. Future World was always my favorite as a kid, unlike World Showcase which felt pretty tedious to walk through. The highlight of Showcase to me, however, was Maelstrom. The atmosphere and theming always interested me. That atmosphere just isn't there with Frozen Ever After. Want to turn a classic Disney attraction into a mediocre borefest? Just add IP it. If they really wanted to bring their IPs into the parks, they should just create a 5th Gate to Disney World. It's sad to me that I'm starting to feel more and more disinterested with going to a Disney park, especially since my family is full of Disneyphiles, and more and more interested in seeing the brighter-seeming future of the Universal Parks.
One of the issues with World Showcase was that it needed more substantial attractions, maybe even thrill rides. It's great for what it is, but it currently exists as a backdrop for dining options. Building a different iteration of The Matterhorn for a Swiss Pavilion? Yes please.
Excellent video. You covered every thought in my head perfectly. It is truly saddening how Disney treated this work of art. It’s getting increasingly difficult to believe Disney will one day fix Epcot, but people like you give me hope. If more and more people are made aware of how beautiful this park used to be, maybe it’ll force Disney to put some thought and effort into their parks once more.
It appears to me that even the many hardcore Disney parks fans are completely unaware of what EPCOT Center used to really be. That's a large factor for why I wanted to create the video, wanting to expose people to what they're missing.
Classic EPCOT was...remarkable. As a child there, it filled me with more wonder than any MK experience ever did, because it was about reality, not fantasy. They are taking a park that had NO comparison like it in the world, and making it into a theme-less mish-mash of IP and festivals. Around the country there are Science Centers that entertain children and adults and there's no reason why Disney can't do their own version of that with Epcot without trying to just make it into another IP driven park or thrill ride park. It's still my favorite, but more for nostalgia of remembering the past than anything, and the few little gems like Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land which remain.
Your point about various science museums hits it right on the head I think. The notion that Epcot was a "boring" park that children reluctantly went to stems from what I believe is a vocal minority. It's always a mistake to cater to the lowest-common-denominator and the current state of Epcot simply proves that point.
Thank you for bringing back such wonderful memories and for reminding me of why our families last visit in early 2016 will be our last! Though the complete and utter decimation of EPCOT is a large part of that decision, the complete unrecognizable nature of the resort in general is so totally unbearable. The truly sad part is that those who don’t remember or never knew the Magic Kingdom of the 70s and the MK and EPCOT of the 80s and even into the early 90s think that what they are getting is top quality and well worth the exuberant prices they are paying when those of us who have seen what it was realize that they are simply being screwed. Don’t get me wrong I realize that things have to change, that franchises change and the younger generations will have different characters and movies that they want to see and should see but my issue is with the character and nature of the resort in general. I remember being so amazed that you would rarely find a dead plant or trash anywhere at the resort, and yet today it’s more common than not. Add that to attractions clearly in disrepair and cast members who couldn’t tell you where the closest bathroom was much less where to find a particular piece of merchandise and there you go. I remember a day when you would ask for directions and a cast member would literally take you by the hand to make sure you got where you needed to be or would find another cast member that knew exactly what store you needed to go to to find what you were looking for. The last time we went I asked three different cast members a fairly simple question and two of them directed me to the app and one simply shrugged their shoulders and kept walking. And then there is my beloved EPCOT that has now been turned into a generic franchise exhibition with even more generic attractions that offer no imagination, creativity or “meat” but are simply designed to direct you to the huge gift shops of merchandising :-( Add that to the drunk festival they have made of Flower and Garden, Food and Wine and Festival of the Arts and it is just pathetic. Mindnumbing, nauseatingly pathetic! Whatever now exists on that huge piece of property out there is not Disney but simply a giant corporate money pit disguised in Disney costuming. They have and will continue to keep charging more and giving less because they really have nothing to offer. They simply purchase franchises, reboot old franchises and more and more play second fiddle to a Universal that will soon become the trend setter, the mark of excellence that Disney once was while Disney continues to rest on Roy’s Financial genius and Walt’s name :-(
Classic Epcot has always been the center of why I love Disney, even though I never got to experience it since I was born 20 years after the park opened. After learning so much about the Epcot of old, it just saddens me that because of Chapek and Disney leadership my favorite park which once was an amazing educational experience is now just becoming another cheap IP filled garbage dump, and I say this after growing up going to the Eisner version. These reasons have actually why I’ve grown distant from my love of the parks, and looking back it really makes me sad
I agree. A large part of what makes current leadership so infuriating is how much they've destroyed the park, and for what? More green space to put food booths? More attractions that will undoubtedly just feel like hollow, one time experiences that won't hold up?
@@PoseidonEntertainment exactly. But I need to take exception about "green spaces". WDW parks, especially Hollywood Studios and EPCOT both need more trees. I sorted saw that when I first visited Disneyland. But then it became obvious when they rebuilt Fantasyland a few years ago. Hollywood Studios badly needs more water features too. Why does Disneyworld feel the need to fill every square foot with attractions? (And too many which are without any sense of charm.) Disney, please embrace what you do so best. Don't stop moving forward, but screens, in and of themselves, aren't necessarily "moving forward", nor charming alone. Often they are cold and unimaginative.
Agreed. Its gotten so bad that I honestly have lost any interest in ever returning to the parks. And I was a CM for 5 years, so its especially heartbreaking.
I liked the "slow moving" dark rides of EPCOT. I like high speed and thrill rides as well. I also like IP. But, everything has its place. Mission Space, especially with its new restaurant makes for an excellent Space Pavilion, but Horizons wasn't about that. Like explained in the video, Horizons took from the other Futureworld pavilions to tell its narrative. It was very much a sequel to Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress. It was more of a signature attraction for the park than Spaceship Earth. Spaceship Earth made for a nice icon or weenie, but it was merely about communication and then later became about narrative. Horizons was about humankind and its place in the world; the vision of EPCOT. It's a sad loss for the park. I suppose what the average guest might consider "dated" about these lost attractions is their conveyance and style of narrative. Spaceship Earth, Horizons, Journey Through Imagination, World of Motion, Living Seas and even the Energy Pavilion all utilise a "slow moving" omnimover system that mostly tells a narrative that spans from the distance past on through the future. While the Fantasyland dark rides are omnimover based attractions, their ride vehicles differ and are integral to their corresponding attraction. Guests ride a motor car in Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. They take a ride on a flying galleon in Peter Pan's Adventure. They journey under the sea in a clamshell to visit the realm of the Little Mermaid. Having that story relevant vehicle provides greater immersion than a generic omnimover vehicle. I don't mind sitting back, taking in the narrative like a fly on the wall. But, I think certain guests want greater immersion. They want to somehow be involved in the narrative. Rather than replacing the World of Motion with TestTrack, I would have made the omnimover ride vehicle the gimmick. It could have been a GM or Chevrolet time travel vehicle of the future that took guests on a journey through time to witness the evolution of transportation. In Journey Into Imagination, guests could have played a more active role in collecting dreams with Figment and the Dreamfinder utilising the laser point and shoot system of Buzz Lightyear. As for Horizons, I'm satisfied with its omnimover system. It really just needed updating in its futuretech, swapping out things like modern day "Zoom" calls for something holographic, perhaps. Of course, Nemo and Friends and even Moana are unnecessary additions for a successful Seas pavilion. I like the Seabase Alpha concept. I love the hydrolator. It was the space elevator of its day. If Seabase Alpha and the overall Seas pavilion need more of a narrative or an IP, why not look to Captain Nemo and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Captain Nemo loved the sea and wanted to protect and cultivate its ecosystem in his isolation from the rest of humanity. The Seabase could easily undergo a steampunk redressing. (Not that its even necessary.) Being in (what was) Futureworld, Seabase Alpha can remain set in the future. It just needs an update of its futuretech and overall esthetic. Rather than applying IP to existing attractions, Disney ought to create more cinematic and television IP inspired by its attractions. The original Frontierland in Disneyland was popular among guests in its early years because of Walt Disney's Zorro on ABC and the Davy Crockett segments on the Disneyland TV series. If Disney were to create a scifi oceanographic TV series set within Seabase Alpha (similar to Seaquest DSV), I would definitely watch it. And I think such a series would make guests want to visit its setting within a Disney park much like guests flock to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal and visit Galaxy's Edge and Pandora at Walt Disney World. (I'm imagining a refreshed Seabase Alpha at EPCOT and perhaps even a new Seabase Beta at Tokyo DisneySea.) An expansion to the Seas pavilion could include a (Tokyo) 20,000 Leagues type of attraction where guests depart from the Seabase on an exploratory mission and defend themselves from a giant squid attack or discover a new underwater species of humanoids, that have perhaps relocated from a distant water world on the other side of the galaxy. As for World Showcase, I'm always in favour of sharing or depicting the nations' cultures and folklore over Disney IP. Yes, fairytales like the Snow Queen, the Little Mermaid, Snow White, Pinocchio, Aladdin and even Mary Poppins may have originated in countries represented in World Showcase, but do these particular stories reflect the essence of these nations? Mary Poppins is about a particular London family and their nanny during the 1910s. How does that tell the story of the people of the United Kingdom? Perhaps a better story would be inspired by Camelot. The Sword in the Stone is featured in Fantasyland, but there is much more to the fabled reign of King Arthur than his pulling the sword from the stone. Also, the Arthurian legends are engrained in the origins of their kingdom which lives on today under the reign of the House of Windsor. The story of Ratatouille is set in Paris, but it says little of the people of France. Sure, the French are skilled culinary artists and Paris is the capital. But, it's superficial representation at best. Imagine Oliver & Company representing the US in World Showcase. It's an English story adapted to cats and dogs living in New York City. It makes just as much sense as Ratatouille representing France. Marianne is the symbol and the personification of the French Republic. Perhaps she should take guests on a historical journey though the birth and rebirth of the French nation. (Notice, I'm not mentioning the Hunchback of Notre Dame , The Three Musketeers or The Man in the Iron Mask.) Disney and Disney Imagineers are capable of great storytelling. They just need to be free of the mandate of pushing Disney IP over storytelling.
I'm so thankful that i got to experience epcot as it was in the early 90's. Epcot was so different than any other theme park. It made learning as kid fun. This video really tugged at my heart. I went to Epcot the other day and it's a complete mess. I wonder if there will ever be anyone who can keep from only doing ips and wall screens. I know it's not related to Epcot but runway railway is a perfect example of that. Yes it's mickey but hardly and ais and mostly wall screens. Money will always run everything but at what cost.
Thank you so much for making this video! I hate the direction Disney is taking with EPCOT. It was always my favorite park but as more and more changes occur it just feels like a hollow shell of its former self. I miss educational EPCOT not IP World. I can only hope that they reverse course and bring it back to how it used to be, but I feel like Disney just sees dollar signs when they look at IP integration and not actually staying true to the vision of EPCOT. Just as long as the little kids want to ride Frozen they see no issue.
From an adult perspective, I have so much respect for what EPCOT accomplished. This is a tough deal, because EPCOT, while it was an absolute work of art, lacked on thrills and connection with characters. Younger guests want that when they go to Disney parks, otherwise it can often be written off as boring. Still, I hope there is a bright future for EPCOT. Great video BTW.
It's amazing how well Horizons tied into your other experiences at Epcot. You could play a version of the synthesizer in Imagination, you would see the hydroponic plants in the land, you could eat at an underwater restaurant at the living seas, you could make dinner reservations on a "video phone kiosk". You most likely rode the monorail and traveled to the moon at the top of spaceship earth. It was the future and it was right there for you to experience.
I’ve heard so many people say “Oh, Epcot was so boring. Disney’s not for learning!” Over the years, including those dumb talking heads on those VH1 nostalgia programs back in the early 00’s. I don’t so much hate these people, as I feel sad for them. Disney stood for so much more than cartoons during his life. This reminds of when Fantasia flopped during its first theatrical run. Disney was trying to do something to stand out from the other animation studios, and the public just wanted more funny cartoons. Even when the company brings it up today, they only focus on the bit with Mickey Mouse. I’m really glad you made this documentary, because I’ve finally found someone who got classic Epcot in the same way I did.
I appreciate your insights, and I think you’re mostly correct in that they weren’t exactly outdated. And I like how you point out the focus on imagination. But here’s my memory of 1988 EPCOT. Boring. I was 8 years old, there for my birthday, and I got to take several days off of school for this special trip. I have great memories of the Magic Kingdom: It’s a Small World, Pirates, Space Mountain, etc. Fabulous memories. Our family spent a whole day there and planned the second day for EPCOT, thinking we’d have a whole day there too. My memory is thinking that the “giant golf ball ride” was fun, and another one like it (I think the World of Motion) was okay, and that’s it. 3 generations of my family were bored. We left after lunch to go back to Magic Kingdom. Fewer kids want to spend their vacation learning something “fun” than you’d think. I don’t think EPCOT’s visitors numbers were high enough, so they just tried something to bring it up. I don’t disagree that they made bad moves going forward at all though.
Classic Epcot was just so great. It was always the quieter, more mature park and as a teenager going to Disney, I much appreciated it. Horizons was hands down my favourite ride in the park. It was clever, sentimental, optimistic, and those dome screens were amazing. I have so many great memories when it comes to classic Epcot, inside jokes with family, and even knowing a trick to the Living Seas pavillion (a lot of times I just wanted to chill at the Aquarium, and there's a way to go back to where the elevator exit "leads back to the surface" and it was very easy to slip in when people were leaving). The Mexico ride had some really cool Day of the Dead theming, all the 360 theatres were great, and there was even some great food off the beaten path. Norway used to have this smoked fish buffet? Amazing. Speaking of food and old Epcot, The Land had this cake. It was just a triple layer chocolate cake, but it was somehow the perfect cake. I know there are prolly recipes out there to replicate it, but I'm terrible with baking, so it's of little use to me. XD it's just another thing to miss. God, I could literally go on, this video has unlocked so much good (and sad) nostalgia. Sure Ratatouille is a cool ride but at what cost??? That immersion breaking fountain ffs. I mean it's cute and all but honestly, it reminded me so much of the one outside of Muppet-Vision.... (Also, was the shop in Japan always so jammed up with anime?)
EPCOT was always a failed version of Walt's vision. I was at there on opening day when I was 5 yo and I grew up seeing the original version of Epcot. It was magical, in a different way than Magic Kingdom. For those interested in technology, it gave a glimpse of what the future could bring. What we see today is a very sad version of what it used to be and i doubt the new renovations will bring back the magic of yesterday.
The first time I went to EPCOT, I discovered something I had never experienced before. Self opening doors. I realize they are everywhere now, but not when I was young and first experienced the park. It seemed like a great idea, and so logical.
Thank you for making this, I’ve been waiting for a video like this to exist, all the old amazing stuff in one video. This is exactly the stuff I was citing in my comment on your Efteling Park video about how that park has some rides with the feel of old Epcot. If it’s at least preserved in videos like this it’s at least alive in memory.
Horizons was a pretty interesting attraction With an unusual system, Journey into Imagination was so timeless that it could fit in the Park forever With almost little to no changes, the seas Pavillion was a more didactic attraction than the seas With Nemo, I would kill for a time machine and visit Epcot at it's prime.
I happen to disagree, even though I was born in the 2000’s, Epcot’s peak years were 1982-1993. But it definitely was still in it’s prime by the 2000’s, even if that was when it started to slip, and the slippage got worse by the late 2010’s - early 2020’s.
I visited Epcot back in July of 1985 with family only a few years after it initially opened - then again in 1987 when I brought my then-girlfriend from England to the park. All I can say is that, while nothing lasts forever, not even Disney attractions, it's sad to see so many of those attractions that I remember from my visits in the 80s now gone. All that is left are the photographs tucked away in the photo albums of people like me, and a few surviving home videos - though they are more rare since camcorders back then were bulky, user-unfriendly, and expensive so not many had them. I'm glad that I took a lot of pictures back then - pictures of places that no longer exist. I really do think that we leave a small piece of our essence behind in the places we visit. Thus, when one of those places is destroyed, there is a sort of ... loss ... that is difficult to put into words. Yet it is tangible. Not as strong as the loss of family or friends - or the destruction of a place that contains a lot of memories - but it can be felt nonetheless. It is no wonder, then, why we sometimes fight progress, why we resist the ridding of the old to make way for the new. It's just too bad that, in the case of Epcot, it seems as if all that is happening is replacing the old with ... well ... nothing. More restaurants. More stores. More trees and picnic tables. Epcot will no longer have that inspirational quality it once did and will instead resemble a state fair with a hodgepodge of unrelated rides, a few shows, and an event here and there. A demolition derby next to a "fattest pig" competition next to a tractor pull next to a pie eating contest next to a karaokie bar next to mud wrestling next to a funnel cake and candy apple stand.
I used to be a denier of past Epcot's quality, but now, with this video, I've become a true believer. It looks magical. If they took this and only added Soarin', it would have been perfect. I wish I could've been there to see it.
I like to rewatch the documentary on a Disney Archives DVD names "The Dream Called Epcot". It played on property before Epcot's opening, and it's beautiful. It shows Imagineers explaining the inspiration and attractions in opening day Epcot, and it has an amazing ending song. The future started Oct. 1, 1982, and ended on September 30, 2005. I hope Disney historians know the significance of that date.
Epcot was my favorite part of Disney and now what it’s be come is nothing of it’s former self,it has been destroyed from what I remember it being and there’s no way that I’d spend a fortune to go to a Disney park in Florida and I got to go to Epcot when it first opened and it’s just sad to see what it’s become.😢
One of the original opening crew here (World Key Information Services.) Such bittersweet memories. I haven't been to Epcot since they started ripping out Communicore. I know I'll feel a profound sadness to see so many things gone, but progress travels onward, right? Thank you for encapsulating them here in this video.
Wow, what a beautiful video of yours ! I can agree once again to 100 % with your opinion. Original Epcot was just perfect as a park and it is mind blowing what happens to it and happening right now… Especially losing World of Motion, the original Journey into Imagination and Horizons hurts, even if I only know them all from videos.
I will never forgive them for what they did to "Imagination". In 2012 I went back to the park for the first time since 1996 and I was heartbroken when I saw the state of "Imagination". Both the ride and pavilion where a highlight of my time there as a kid & it kills me that my kids wont get to experience them.
My thoughts exactly. I'm just happy I got to see most of this stuff before it started going away. But there is a world of old Epcot content on UA-cam for you to discover.
1973, 1976, 1979, 1982.....every three years my family drove to Disney from Buffalo, NY. My favorite "year" was 1982, as Epcot was open only three months when we visited. This video was a real blast from my own past...so many fond memories of such a new and novel pleasure ground.
What I find so interesting with say, the energy pavilion becoming a completely pointless guardians of the galaxy ride, is that the aspect of learning about different sources of energy and their uses will always be relevant, whereas a guardians of the galaxy ride dates itself already, as it’s not as important to society. It’s more just silly. The one pavilion that sorta retains its meaning, is definitely living with the land. It certainly has changed every year, but it’s still retaining its aspect of the land and it’s importance to us.
EPCOT was my favorite place to be as a kid from 2002-2009 when we were annual pass holders (and living in Orlando for a number of those years) and I can’t believe how many of these attractions that not only I hadn’t seen (being far before my time) but that I had never even heard of. It’s been more than a decade since I’ve been to Disney world but oh goodness I wish I could go to *this* epicot. At least it can live in my head rent free.
I had a hard time watching this video, with misty eyes. You did a wonderful job putting together in what I like to call this time the "GOLDEN YEARS" of EPCOT. When I see what the new park offers I am saddened, people have no idea what they have missed out on. It's a shell of a park now so dumbed down it's awful. The inttelect, the wit, the imagination, the fun are gone, replaced with trite. My kids when they were little loved Epcot it sparked their creative juices without being preachie. A time gone to greed and avarice.
My sister and I were deciding on what amusement park to go to she didn't even try to convince me to do Disney like she always would. She's probably the biggest Disney fan I know, but with all the cost cutting and lack luster new experiences, it's just completely turned her off ever wanting to go back.
World of Motion was a great attraction. Test Track is a hollow reincarnation. WoM was a highly imaginative attraction about transportation and how it made society progress. Test Track is about GM/Chevy and how they design and test cars. See a difference there?
I believe that World of Motion, Imagination and Horizons creates a classic trio that I would bring back immediately if given the chance. I'm glad that Spaceship Earth has survived, but Epcot is missing so many core experiences.
So glad you made this video. Made me remember going to epcot when I was a kid. I kinda forgot about those original rides but as the video played it brought back great memories! Going back to Disney this Christmas. Skipping Epcot because the kids said they didn't want to go to that park. Which to me speaks volumes about its current state. Keep up the good work!
The current park is such a mess. If it weren't for World Showcase, I'm not sure that I would even still really go to the park anymore. Even then, it continues to decline though.
It’s so nice to see footage of the parks from the 90s 2007 was the last time the Disney parks felt like Disney to me, you could just go and explore without looking at your phone and everything seemed to be genuine across all the parks Epcot was my favorite, now I walk around and hear the new “modern” music and see the new stores and I feel like im walking around some mall outlets with some generic Disney stores in it Thanks for the videos, would love to see Disney go back in this direction instead of commercializing every aspect
what if you had your own epcot attraction? this video felt like one in itself. inspiring future generations how not to run a park, and how not to be Bob chapek
The more I learn about the EPCOT Center the more abhorrent and an affront to the optimistic sensibility of Walt Disney the current incarnation of the park becomes. Imagine the kind of callous thinking that drives someone to WANT to eviscerate the original Journey Into Imagination. It's actually quite hard for me to get my head around.
I believe that Journey Into Imagination was a timeless classic that had the potential to last for generations, with occasional updates to keep it fresh and "plus" the effects (as they've done with the Fantasyland dark rides, for example). The changes that were made to it seem to reflect a crass and shallow side to 90s pop culture. Unfortunately the damage was done.
Just found your channel and it is brilliant! Finally someone who talks the truth about Disney parks, and not just drinking the kool aid. We love the parks here and truly miss how they used to be. well done and cannot wait to watch the rest of the visdeos!
If Epcot had the right management who knew how to invest in it properly it would be one of the greatest parks in the world. It's incredibly frustrating.
That's true, but really prime Epcot only seemed to last about 10 years. It's somewhat astounding how quickly the park has changed and gone through three different dramatically different iterations in a little under 40 years.
I remember classic Epcot, and it was amazing... absolutely amazing! ...Sad what happened. At least we have videos of the rides!. "Martins ultimate tributes" (as mentioned in this video) are really good.
I agree. I discovered, with World of Motion especially, how difficult it is to convey the content of these attractions because of how poor video quality was at the time. I'm glad that Martin was able to provide far more depth and context than any video could portray.
I admit I was a little reluctant to see this video "oh boy, another theme park channel", but it turned out to be one of best videos I've seen recently. Great script and the information was based on evidence and not only personal experience, and also left with that need to reflect on what was presented after the video ended. That said, I totally agree with the opinions presented: Disney is about creativity and dreams of a better future not IPs. Want to attract newer generations? Allow them to dream, give them a clean canvas of endless possibilities and not only memories of past productions (Nemo, Frozen, ...)*, that was what I loved about EPCOT, as I child after I left the park I would keep remembering the attractions and dreaming about ways to make that future come true. *not that I don't love those movies, I do, but there's a time and place for everything and EPCOT is not the place for that, EPCOT is (or should be) about "here's where we came from and how we got here, now it's up to you to continue the story"
A main benefit of Disney World's size is that Disney can plan ahead and grow/improve the parks without destroying what already works. Choosing to demolish beloved attractions instead of just adding more unique ones shows how poor their planning is. It's like if they tore down Haunted Mansion to add Galaxies Edge...oh wait, they did a similar thing at MGM with the Backlot and Streets of America...where they should have had plenty of room to avoid that. It's shameful and idiotic to completely write off their own imagineer's previous (high quality and iconic) work. They can easily update what's there in thoughtful ways. Disney doesn't realize how risky it is to rely on IP, often integrated with cheap off the shelf rides or projection only. The fact that Disney felt confident opening Mickey's Runaway Railway after seeing Pooh's Hunny Hunt in Tokyo (20yrs earlier), or TDL's Beuaty and the Beast ride (that imagineers were building simultaniously!) shows how little they care, and how shortsighted they are. I stronly believe that Disney should rebuild these classic Epcot/MGM attractions with updates to very minor elements that were outdated. As others have said, it's totally fine to add thrill attractions, but NOT as replacements for high quality, park defining rides.
This video clearly presents the issues with the current direction of EPCOT. In the early days I would be mesmerized by the focus on the future and our potential for a better world. It has devolved into, as you put it, IP related disappointments. The "Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Caballeros" at the Mexico pavilion is one of the best examples of just how far EPCOT has fallen. Thanks for laying out how and why this has come to be.
80s EPCOT was best EPCOT. User 'mcog 2006' hit the nail on the head in his comment. EPCOT, at it's best, was a place that celebrated and encouraged inspiration and possibilities. I promise you that these themes are, always have been, and always will be, attractive to young minds and old minds alike.
Epcot and especially the Communicore really sparked my interest into technology when I was a kid. It was so amazingly cool seeing the robotics and computer demonstrations.
So, soooo many facts presented here Also I can’t help but notice on videos about Epcot like this how many die hard fans there are - we could have easily populated the experimental prototype community Walt dreamed of
I'm quite skeptical that Walt's vision of EPCOT would have worked and I greatly prefer the theme park adaptation of that concept, even if I think the idea is fascinating. It's just... well, obviously that park was so short lived.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I can definitely see your point there, not *exactly* like his initial concept since that was rooted in like pre 1960s ideals of the future lol - but I look at these newfangled urban housing concepts that are combining living, working, retail/etc spaces and I always think that that’s what we might’ve could’ve had with Epcot
My daughter is a huge frozen fan. Even she didn’t like having Frozen ride shoved into Epcot. ‘’This doesn’t make sense dad’’ it’s clear to a 5 year old
Being such a massive fan of the Disney parks, it's always saddened to me that the original Epcot was probably one of the best theme parks the world has ever seen, and yet it stopped existing before I was even born. It's almost a Shakespearean tragedy at this point. Thank you for making this video, it perfectly articulates things I've been trying to explain to myself for a while now. I've sadly never been but if I manage to get myself to WDW within my lifetime, I hope by then that Disney management begins to understand and respect the original concept of the park. Fantastic video, one of your best so far.
I only experienced the 90s Eisner version of the park, but even I recognize what an incredible place it was. Bringing back the original spirit of Epcot would be the best move for the park I believe.
This is going to sound far-fetched and probably nonsensical, but I would like to see them put some scenes from World of Motion in a possible third iteration of "Test Track". Maybe slow down some of the indoor portion to allow guests to take in the show scenes and rename it back to World of Motion as well. It would bring back some of EPCOT's educational values while still keeping the thrills everyone loves about Test Track.
I’m a Floridian, lived in Orlando for many years. Loved the original Epcot. E Ticket rides! Used to go to breakfast at The Land. while you ate, you got to rotate and see part of the land. Loved the carousel of progress and horizon pavilion, imagination pavilion (the original FIGMENT).Energy had great dinosaurs. Even the slow moving wedway people mover was a pleasant rest from walking so much. We attended the park so many times. Loved the food and wine festival, tasting foods from all the countries around the lagoon. It was a really a great day. So very sad to see the destruction of such a wonderful park. Excellent presentation. Thanks for posting this. ❤️
Great video, Poseidon. I especially like the musical accompaniment. I share your sorrow over Disney’s steady departure from EPCOT’s original mission. EPCOT was, and remains, my favorite park for that reason. Unfortunately, I don’t think we are likely to halt or reverse this decline anytime soon. I think the problems are both structural-historical and generational. EPCOT was designed with the expectation that experiences would be sponsored over the long term, helping to finance updates as well as basic maintenance. I don’t expect sponsorship to return as a common business model for the Disney Parks. Not only did that business model prove torturous, meaning it is unlikely to be preferred as a future approach, but the social media age brings a new horror to cross-branding. Because Disney is no longer struggling the way it was when EPCOT was new, projects can be kept fully in-house. But that means they will be a different kind of project. Corporate sponsorships worked on two levels. First, they meant that external partners were underwriting theme park costs-good for Disney. But secondarily, it made sense for big corporations to participate in a venture that would associate their brands with positive images of efficiency, family, and progress. This meant that the attractions needed to have theming of a kind that works only in an edutainment setting. (Why else would you want to visit The Kaiser Aluminum Hall of Fame?) Eisner is lauded as the one who first recognized the potential for synergy between Disney’s film and television library and other forms of commercial activity, including theme park attractions. Compared to 1982, the Disney IP library is today substantially larger and broader. It is entirely natural that Iger, having bought Marvel, would want to push that into the parks, and while I’d have preferred to see those new attractions go down in Hollywood Studios, I can’t fault them too much for thinking to replace old EPCOT rides rather than expand existing park footprints. The best we can hope for, I think, is for “Reboot Mania” to take hold around Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Renaissance Era materials that will bring more nostalgia back to the parks for persons of our age cohort. Hollywood Studios could do with a Seven Seas club, for instance. Another problem: there is a now a literal industry of people who visit the parks regularly to report out on what is happening. These people are not all happy about the direction Disney is taking, but the economic signals they’re sending crowd out the opinions they share online. They’re giving the parks free advertising even as they inveigh against Genie+. Third, we’ve entered a new time in which we, as a global community, generally feel very poorly about ourselves. Disney has always thrived in the moments when optimism outweighed pessimism: in the 1950s and early 1960s, again in the 1980s, and once more in the 2010s. But thanks to COVID, we’ve entered another downturn. It may be easier, in some sense, to engage with fairly two-dimensional superhero tropes than with visions of a harmonious, purpose-focused future for which Walt is so beloved. I think the pandemic will also leave a lasting impact on the parks. I was hoping, with the advent of Batuu and the Intergalactic Star Cruiser, that Disney would begin to consider expanding the live-action entertainment options at the parks. Instead of multi-million dollar roller coasters, give us more street shows and interactive theater. Now, I expect those things will be considerably delayed.
I don't have the time to make construct a meaningful reply, but I will say that you provide a lot of interesting perspective and I appreciate the time you took to type this out.
My lad, is there a patreon or any way to support your work other than liking/subscribing/sharing? Your videos are excellent and your viewpoint on the evolution of the parks is refreshing
A patreon isn't really something that I'm interested in doing as I don't really have the time to produce anything exclusive for subscribers. That being said, I appreciate your support though!
I can remember the first time my parents brought me to EPCOT in 1983 when I was 6 years old. Fascinating at the time. I still have my Figment the purple dragon doll to this day!
I experienced Epcot during its first decade, and I absolutely loved its positive view of the world to come, as well as its interactive exhibits. I agree with you about its original attractions; I believe they'd still be popular today, even with the inevitable improvements they'd eventually need. I can still remember my initial response to Journey Into Your Imagination....I was so disgusted, I vowed never to ride again. I broke that vow when Figment was returned, but it didn't improve the ride. If anything, it actually made it worse. Hasn't it occurred to whoever's running the parks these days that some of their oldest, not to mention iconic attractions....the Jungle Cruise, It's A Small World, Pirates Of The Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion....are not only STILL popular, but weren't based on any movie or TV show?
The current iteration of Imagination isn't just a disservice to Figment, so much as it destroys his character. He became annoying and unlikeable, killing what made him so great. I also agree with your point about the older attractions. People would actively boycott the parks if something like the Haunted Mansion was torn down in favor of some IP tie in. The lack of understanding for what makes the parks so appealing is astounding.
I lived in Daytona Beach 1986 to 1993. I had a Florida resident three season pass in 1988 and 1989. I went to Magic Kingdom and EPCOT numerous times both years. I think that was EPCOT at its peak, and I loved it
I am still upset they got rid of the entrance music. I'll probably never get over that, it was such an awesome, nostalgic tune. Ughhh... and making the Leave a Legacy panels into a giant entrance wall is so disrespectful to all of us who made those and consider them memorials. My dad and I have one, and he is no longer with me, so it was always so nice to visit those pretty granite panels to see our picture whenever I visited. Honestly, every decision Disney has made in recent years has felt like a slap in the face.
I never understood the hate that the Leave a Legacy display got. Sure it bottlenecked the entrance a bit, but people made it out to be some horrible eyesore when it really wasn't.
@@PoseidonEntertainment True! I always thought it looked pretty, and the panels led your eye up to Spaceship Earth...and it being inside the park made it all feel much more secure. I think it's more of an eyesore now, honestly. Yikes!
An uncle of mine visited Epcot back in the early 80s and I was greatly fascinated by the stories of his experiences ever since. I wanted to go on a trip to experience this park myself. Which is not so easy since I live at the other side of the planet. 10 years ago I finally had the opportunity to go. It was a nice park, but I couldn't fully relate with my uncle's enthusiasm until I saw old ride videos of these former darkrides. Lucky these people who take great care to document these old gems. Sad that these are gone and replaced by cheap IPs.
Ok… so hear me out. Disney is in trouble, nothing they are doing is making money. But they love reusing there old properties. So let’s remake Epcot 80,s style and call it Epcoy - experimental city of yesterday.
I’m not sure how I stumbled onto your channel, but I LOVE it!! Thank you for excellent content and for bringing back memories of things long forgotten. It is a bit sad looking at EPCOT today. ❤️
This park used to be SO good. As a kid, I didn't understand it, but as I grew older the park became my favorite one! Then they killed it. In a day where people are growing to love nostalgia, it would have been so good to be able to take my kids to see these amazing attractions. Spaceship Earth (early 90s edition) is still one of my favorites. I can close my eyes and smell burning Rome still today.
I think attractions were and are being updated or redone not because they're thematically outdated but because the experience itself is outdated. Ultimately disney wants to sell tickets and for them to do so they have to make rides that children and adults are excited to ride and fascinated by. unfortunately a lot of the older rides don't quite do that as much. not that the new rides are always doing that either, but i think thats the real rationale.
Thank you for this. I mean, I know this wasn't targeted at me, but this was my favorite park for so long. Horizons was my favorite ride in all of WDW. I miss the interactivity of so many things throughout the park. 40 years on, and I still remember the melody to the Universe of Energy's theme, the VERY John Denver-esque "Listen to the Land," and "Imagination." My dad loved Figment from day one. I miss coming out of the rides and seeing all the new concept cars on display. Now, it's all either been gutted or is entirely non-existent. Between MGM/Hollywood Studios no longer being about the magic of making movies and Epcot being a practically distinct identity from EPCOT, as well as the bazillion downgrades in customer service there in all fronts, I feel I have no real reason to go anymore. I've never been a thrill ride guy, and never wanted IP theming anywhere outside of the MK. I'd say. "Oh, well. Guess I get to save money," but it really is heart-breaking.
Original EPCOT was amazing. It was my favorite park. As each change was made, it lessened my enjoyment. Was it truly necessary to get rid of Horizons? It seems as though each of the pavilions could easily be timeless with minor updates here and there.
Your attention to detail is great and this is a very complete presentation. My only issue is that this comes across as you presenting your opinion as fact. I agree with your assessment of Chapek for sure and I may even agree with you stating that the early EPCOT rides should have been kept and updated along with new attractions. You have to take into consideration that a great many people love the current EPCOT and are looking forward to the changes.
I never understood the original neutering of the attraction, but the current iteration makes sense. The need to stuff in IP inappropriately everywhere is just so mind-numbingly frustrating.
Journey Into Imagination was my FAVORITE ride in Future World as a kid (with Horizons running at a close second) and we spent over an hour playing in Image Works while the adults sat down and rested. Compared to back then, Future World seems so EMPTY now.
There are so many new technologies and theories that could be used in epcot like virtual reality, cybernetics, space exploration, andriods, and many other things that could be used to update the park while keeping the community of tomorrow vibe in place. But Disney so caught up on taking their movies to their parks rather then creating new stories, it's even the same thing with some of the movies they create. But at the end of the day if we want Disney to stay open, they will have to do that. Because people grow, get older and no longer are the main money makers of their park they have to stay up to date and keep the eyes of their younger audience.
I'm not sure if I agree that Disney needs to pivot towards movie IP to stay relevant. They were top of the industry before. At this point, it's just a matter of packing the parks to the absolute brim despite being just fine regardless.
Not gonna go through the comments…but besides the attractions Epcot Center had the BEST music ever…it’s still my “go to” music to get in the Disney mood.
It's horrible that a park empire that was built on the concept of nostalgia can't even allow its own nostalgia to endure. I want Test Track, but I want Test Track AND World of Motion. I want Horizons AND Mission Space. Eisner may have "ruined" Disney, but right now Chapek has a good many people willing to hold his beer. Offer less, charge more, destroy what people love. It's not even a "what would Walt have done" issue anymore, it's "what would a sane person do?"
Things we're great under Eisner.
That’s the exact same thing I thought too
I agree with your message except the part about wanting Mission Space. IMO it's the biggest failure in the history of Imagineering.
Eisner dreamt too much. Not the worst sin to have especially for a Disney executive.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 Eisner ordered the removal of audio-animatronics - closing great attractions and putting up billboards - (DCA's mural entrance walkway) and calling it an attraction.
It's kind of crazy how Epcot was born of looking to the future, and is being ruined by people who don't have proper foresight.
Sad.
So on point💯👍💚
We don’t have a positive view of the future anymore. Which is crazy because whether it’s Tomorrowland in Disneyland from the 50s or Epcot from the 70s this was the period of the Cold War when everyone thought nuclear destruction was guaranteed.
@@Btn1136 Apparently Internet indirectly caused this.
Epcot was born by people looking towards creating for the future and ruined by people who are trying to consume the past.
I agree with all of this. It’s heartbreaking when people think Epcot is the worst park. They don’t know what it once was and what it was meant to be. “More Disney” is absolutely not what Epcot needs. 😢
I'm of the opinion that it is actually the worst park, but for the reasons laid out in the video. It's a place that just no longer interests me because of how poor the experience has become.
The World's Showcase should've been placed on indefinite hold or made its own park.
It does need "more Disney" though...but not Disney movies or other Disney-owned properties. Early EPCOT Center was always extremely Disney in its approach to theme park storytelling, and, to me, classic theme park history is much more Disney than any property they acquire (i.e. Marvel or Star Wars). For example, Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are now cornerstones of the greater Disney Parks brand, and they weren't originally based on anything Disney owned. Similarly, Figment has remained a popular icon for Epcot merch and events despite the poor state of his attraction, yet I can't imagine Disney in 2021 taking a chance on imagination and letting Imagineers create a new WDW ride not based on one of their intellectual properties. The "more Disney" that modern execs need is to understand that the original stories that used to be told (and are still told and beloved) in theme parks can be just as important to Disney as animated Disney movies.
E.P.C.O.T. is my fave park.
@@JCBro-yg8vd the World Showcase is pretty good though
Thank you for pointing out that Chapek's definition of "more Disney" is not an accurate one. Especially considering Walt's original EPCOT vision and even the way it was transformed into an innovative discovery park. I feel sad for EPCOT and it's fans.
Aye, what has made the parks "Disney" to me has always been the quality and unique experiences.
@@PoseidonEntertainment all of which they are now mostly ignoring.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Quality is what has always been my selling point as well but I do think there is a market demographic that really does just think of the IP :\ I remember so many times in my childhood were I'd talk about how amazing Disney parks were and then people would be perplexed that I had no passion for most Disney films.
To me it was always the unique imagination and sense of place the parks have, very different from film and why I think of Imagineers as masters of their craft.
Dont you mean Cheapek?
@@PoseidonEntertainment Now its just like any other park in the world.
My favorite Epcot memory is from my first time visiting in 1989. At the end of the night the park had cleared out and Horizons was a walk on. My parents and I rode it three times so we could try each of the endings. It will always be my favorite ride at that park.
It's crazy to me that Eisner shelved it in favor of Mission: Space. He even had plans to clone it for WESTCOT and Disneyland Paris, so the move is all the stranger.
My favorite ride too, heartbroken when it closed, haven't been back since 2007 and don't ever plan to!
I had no idea Epcot had so many animatronic rides!!!!! Those are my Fave 🥺🥺😊
Yep just like the carousel of progress. One very well known classic animatronic ride. :)
It was such an incredible place.
If you haven't been there are still real gems in Epcot. As this video highlights Spaceship Earth but I'd also say American Adventure is pretty good even though it's a show and not a ride ;)
None ever rose to Pirates or Mansion levels in my book but this video highlights their strengths rather well.
It was unreal I remember the 60s section it was outdated at the time but my mind was blown it had the opposite effect it was like wow this is what people thought the future would be like
I believe World of Motion had more than any other attraction anywhere.
Luckily we still have The American Adventure.
EPCOT should be a place of inspiration, not just only full amusement.
That reminds me of a quote from Joe Rohde:
"Fun. In the business of entertainment design you will come across people who will say, “Why can’t it just be fun?” This question is often actually an accusatory form of micro-aggression, and really means…”Why are you wasting so much time on intellectual BS and overbred aesthetic sensibility?” But there is a logical answer. Fun is cheap. I can have fun in an inflatable pool in my backyard. I can have fun playing basketball by the garage. I can have fun watching videos of snarky cats. This fun costs very little. An inflatable pool costs 50 bucks or less and can be used many times. A trip to a major entertainment venue like a Broadway play or Theme Park can cost many hundreds of dollars per visit, all in. So…are these places just plain fun? Are they hundreds or thousands of times more fun than shooting silly string at each other on the porch? Probably not. Therefore, fun cannot possibly be the motivating factor in the compulsive, repetitive, over-scale patronage of the theme park industry. The motive is simply not competitive enough based on other options. People must be paying this kind of money and making this kind of effort for a reward that is of higher value, more rare, and of greater impact than fun. That reward is many things, among which is the sensation of transport, of being moved magically into another place or another time. It is the intensity of experience which results in permanent memories. It is the rare sensation of cohesiveness, harmony, and thematic organization which allows the human brain to relax and be absorbed. I could go on. But all of these properties reside in the obsessive execution of coordinated detail, resulting in places with a strange otherworldly attraction. And that is not cheap. In fact, theme parks are repositories of human time, effort, and, yes, money…which guests sense through the level of detail, organization, and intensity. Theme parks are a form of communication between designers and audiences… They are relationships. People like worthy, meaningful, invested relationships… Not cheap ones."
Joe Rohde is one of the wisest Imagineers currently alive
Agreed definitely! 👍
@@PoseidonEntertainment I really loved Joe Rohde; one of the GOAT when it came to Disney Imagineers. He was one of the reasons why Disney has been predominantly unique from other theme parks and a genuine experience.
Inspiration is such an intense and great feeling too. I remember going into “Living with the land” and feeling truly inspired. Such a simple ride and such a simple concept, yet it gives that feeling of wholesomeness if you allow it to.
I just wanna say that, as a fairly young person who has grown up in the internet age, I find all these attractions about how old technology functioned to be really fascinating. Maybe there would be a period of some years where these attractions felt outdated, but I feel they would've cycled back around to being incredibly interesting after a point (although I guess it wouldn't be profitable for Disney to keep them during that period). Anyway, just my thoughts, loved the video!
In the same boat as you. Agreed. Jealous of my parents and grandparents who got to see EPCOT in its prime!
It is heartbreaking that they destroyed these incredible attractions, the loss of Horizons being the greatest of them all. They were built by the best and most experienced imagineers Disney had. They (Disney executive management) literally had no idea what they had. A complete failure of imagination.
Well, I would rank Spaceship Earth (prior to last upgrade) and Universe of Energy higher, but point well taken.
My only major complaint about Horizons would have to be Disney should have upgraded some of the more prominent audio animatronics. But the core story was amazing.
For Horizons & Universe of Energy, Disney saw attendance greatly decline, and figured they needed something to attract teenagers who wanted Knott's Berry Farm, Cedar Point or Six Flags instead.
@@asklouie I have read about the infamous sinkhole. I have also read that Disney determined it could be foxed/filled in, though it would take more than a year of downtime.
In any event, Disney admitted (Eisner mostly) they needed to get more teen boys interested in visiting, and management felt a thrill ride would best accomplish that.
I feel they made a bad choice. More due to losses incurred along the way.
OP said: "A complete failure of imagination."
If only they had ridden their rides more... they might have had more imagination...
Hmmmm
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’d rank Journey Into Imagination as the greatest loss, because it had a Jules Verne/steampunk aesthetic that didn’t age, and because Spaceship Earth has managed to retain much of its character.
I really enjoyed Horizons and the original Living Seas. The hydro lift was so cool. I also really enjoyed innovations. When they had all the video games and the gadgets you could mess around with. Oh well I’m glad I have the memories.
I would say chasing popular Ip's killed Disney more than anything else when it comes to their amusement parks. They trashed good rides that people liked in favor of some new hip movie. The problem was by the time the project was constructed often that "new hit movie" was old news and the kids who grew up with it were already teenagers.
Yet Disney seemed to almost hate any successful ride that wasn't part of their animated collection. I think they disliked the fact Figment was probably more popular than say Donald Duck or Minnie mouse.
When I went to EPCOT, I was inspired to go into STEM fields of work, I wanted to be an imagineer, I wanted to be someone that pushes the boundaries of science, even if that isn't who I am today, that want was still there. I can't go to "EPCOT" today and feel inspired to innovate the world of tomorrow anymore. This is going to harm generations to come, they'll only think of it as another place to go on some rides and no more. If people aren't willing to want to learn, then make them! That's what it used to be, education and fun in one package, that's why I loved going through places like the now retired and demolished innoventions (I've mentioned this on other videos of his). I think the park is beyond saving now, it doesn't feel like an experimental prototype community of tomorrow anymore.
I got inspired to go into computers because of this, and now they say they are still trying to preserve Disney's original plan, but now I don't see what good they have done so far. The character themes in my opinion will ruin everything.
It never was an "experimental community of tomorrow". That was Walt Disney's vision and it died with him.
In some ways I feel like Epcot shared some DNA and, sadly, a fate with Star Trek. In a single decade we were given two properties that inspired a generation to go into the sciences and think optimistically about the future, and the decades that followed saw a steady, gradual loss of that spark.
Criticisms of modern Trek mirror those of Epcot. That they've lost their way, lost a creative vision, and changed their priorities.
For me, I feel a mix of frustration that nobody at Disney seems to realize that Epcot IS its own IP that can be developed and expanded on, and sadness at the damage done by this lack of perspective.
I'm also deeply disappointed at how happy people seem to be with pessimism and angst. When things aren't going well, the nihilist and the defeatists don't make things better, and the selfish opportunists make things worse. Solutions come from people who see potential in the future, and it's important to have things that inspire that in us.
I know it sounds dumb, but I've always felt personally connected to Epcot, even as a little kid. One of my earliest baby pictures is my dad carrying me in front of Spaceship Earth right after it opened, and the 2 other times we went back, we always seemed to spend more time there than the other parks. It was just a really special place and time I think.
Same here! Epcot is my favorite part, and I have loved every iteration of it! I can't wait until all the updates are finished!
Epcot Center was such a special place. I’ve been greatly disappointed with how it has been managed over the years, especially the destruction of Journey into Imagination. I first went as a kid in the early 80s and fell in love with the place.
It’s not dumb at all. I absolutely feel the same way! My love of science was definitely shaped by this park. I understand the need to move on, but sometimes it feels a bit like little pieces of you being ripped away.
I only knew the Eisner version, but even then Epcot still held that special place among the other WDW parks. I'm glad that you were at least able to experience the classics.
The reason I got a couple of engineering degrees is greatly due to this park.
This video is a perfect essay on why the original EPCOT was important up until the early 2000's and how it evolved. I noticed however that you didn't include Wonders of Life. It wasn't original by any means, being the last pavilion to be built in 1989, but it had an interesting history in such a short span of time at the park and it never got updated or changed much at all. I grew up going to the park when Innoventions was dying its slow death in the mid-late 2000's, but at least back then we still had Energy, the Original Test Track, a competent Spaceship Earth, and a still true to theme land pavillion. Now it looks like we only have Spaceship Earth and the Land. All of these newest additions; Guardians, Frozen, Moana don't belong in the park in any way. Donald in Mexico and Remy in France get a pass because they are fairly well tied to the country they are in. This new vision of EPCOT is a true insult to Walt Disney the person as well as the glorious past of imagineering and the fans who loved what the original park and it's early years were. Chapek and the new leadership don't give a damn what the fans want, only the once in a lifetime guest who just wants to see characters from TV and movies at the parks. Chapek and Iger make Eisner look like a saint in terms of creativity and management. Yes, Eisner had a rough time after Frank Wells died in 1994, but his first ten years were excellent. Eisner saved Disney just so Iger and Chapek could shit all over it.
I agree with you 100%! Back when Bob Chapek first announced the EPCOT overhaul back at the 2017 D23 Expo, I started to feel like that there is no hope for EPCOT under current Disney management.
Top comment.
When I was 15 in 1983 my parents took me to Disney world. I ended up spending twice as much time at EPCOT than the main park. I loved it. Watching this video brought back a lot of fond memories of that place. I saddens me to know it's only a shadow of it's former self.
I always considered going back but from what I've heard lately I'll never spend another dime on anything Disney creates.
I wouldn't say the old EPCOT attractions were outdated, rather they just need to be updated to fit the times better, like how Disney updates Pirates and Haunted Mansion with new scenes. Lets hope with the new Spaceship Earth this is done well.
Yeah I’d much rather them be upgraded over destroyed
Yes! This is what the people who say "diSnEy iS NoT a MUSeUm" don't understand. They could have updated the attractions while keeping the spirit of the attraction, not completely overhauling it into an irrelevant, new attraction.
@@jenw9463 You've captured my thoughts for me.
Too bad MOEBIUS (Jean Giraud) is dead :/ He would have created the greatest updated vision of tomorrow. He was the mind behind the vision of The Fifth Element, Heavy Metal, Tron and The Empire Strikes Back.
@@coreym162 Don’t forget Alien, The Abyss, Masters of the Universe, and Willow.
I went to Epcot in 1999 so I saw some of the last vestiges of epcot center. I was interested in coral reefs and fish so the Seas was my favorite exhibit. I eventually got a degree in marine biology and though I don't work in that field, the subject means a lot to me. I loved finding nemo, but I refuse to ride the replacement for the original show and go into the aquarium from the back entrance. There are coral colonies in some of the tanks that are still alive today that I saw in 99 so I enjoy pointing out to my family and friends the corals that I am certain are over 20 years old. If it ever got fully revamped and those corals removed I would be very sad.
I'm surprised that the coral is still there. I was under the impression that the tanks had been changed out over the years.
I hate saying this, but if it weren't for the animals in The Living Seas, I am somewhat confident the Disney of now would have torn this attraction down, or at least gutted it to replace it.
Terrific tribute and salient insight. The original EPCOT Center, particularly Horizons and TLS, got under my skin so much as a teen and in my early 20s, it inspired my book series, decades later. The hints are evident throughout. For me, Seabase Alpha never went away - it simply became more real. :)
I am an avid reader. Can you link me to your books?
@@Jazzykatt23 I've tried to reply twice, but for.some reason am not seeing my responses show up. This is a test...
@@noahknoxmarshall3001 I see this response. Are you on Amazon?
That whole opening video, the "Welcome to Seabase Alpha!!" on the speakers, and then the doors popping open to reveal what we just saw.. Oh,man.. 40 years later.. it still sticks in my memory..
@@noahknoxmarshall3001 I've noticed this myself with UA-cam in the past few days. Must be a glitch.
My best Epcot center memory is riding horizons and being the last person to ride it one night in 1992. Then they closed the doors behind us
I wish I had the chance to ride Horizons
I teared up at the orange grove…I too got to ride this wonderful attraction close to its last day. My brother and I went on it like 5 times. Afterword, it broke my heart to see it vacant and seemingly forgotten overnight.
Horizons was a masterpiece:(
My first visit to EPCOT was in 1985. I was on a convention trip and felt a little awkward going by myself. I had never done that before. As I walked in, I immediately noticed many other people coming in alone. It was fantastic! I saw all the attractions shown in this video. And the countries were serviced by people from those countries. It was delightful talking to them. When I was in China I saw a trinket that was more than I wanted to pay. I remember the clerk saying that if we really were in China, we could haggle a bit, but not at EPCOT. I bought the trinket because I wanted to remember the story!
I want to thank you immensely for this incredible and well-put together analysis of the attractions that defined classic EPCOT Center and why the idea of them becoming outdated is a myth. Having been born after all of the changes in the 90s, I only ever got to experience vestiges of the original EPCOT Center; El Rio Del Tiempo & Maelstrom, the '94 version of Spaceship Earth, Living With The Land, Ellen's Energy Adventure... It is so refreshing to hear such an amazing presentation of the argument that EPCOT Center, save for the exhibits/shows in places like Communicore, never really became outdated and only got into the sorry state it's in currently first because of Michael Eisner losing his touch in the 90s and making miscalculation after miscalculation because he never understood EPCOT Center, and now both Bobs (Iger & Chapek) essentially killing what little is left of the original concept. As a now passionate fan of several classic EPCOT attractions I never got to experience, this video was wonderful to see!
Love everything about this video essay. I would posit that while people say things were updated because they were becoming "outdated," maybe what they really mean is they were being seen as "boring" or "stale." Although, had they received regular updates and maintenance, maybe that could've been prevented (like Pirates and Mansion).
Also, Wonders of Life was an interesting one to me. That pavilion came later and felt "dated" almost immediately," closing before others that had been there much longer. Maybe that's a story for another day though?
I completely agree with your first sentiment, but part of the reason I framed it as "technologically out-dated" is because it's an argument that I constantly see everywhere online. I'm of the opinion that Disney has a number of great attractions that should stay because they reach the heights of many classics, but could use significant updates to keep them fresh as with Pirates or HM as you stated. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I consider Dinosaur to have reached this status and I hope that with the upgrades it received back in 2017, it'll still be around for the long haul.
When I produced the video, I did consider the impact of WoL but it never felt like it fit into the fundamental Epcot experience. It very much seemed like the first step in what would be Eisner's transformation of the park and while not inherently bad, I agree that it was kind of dead from the start.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Your thoughts on the IP driven re-do’s becoming outdated more quickly is eye opening. I wonder if one day we see Jack Sparrow removed from Pirates, as they removed the opening scene overlays. I feel they’re holding that classic back now. And YES, Dinosaur is a classic. It has succeeded beyond its IP relationship, to become a classic dark ride in its own right. It deserves to stay forever as much as Spaceship Earth or Mansion in my book.
@@ThemeParkStop I have to say, I see no harm in leaving Jack Sparrow. Why? He replaces generic characters, or is simply added to scenes. I know there are plenty of people who forget about Depp being in the attraction. (I don't care if they remove him either.)
@@ThemeParkStop The removal of the mist screen was absolutely welcome. I remember liking the original trilogy of Pirates films but finding the inclusion of the film elements into the ride distracting and unnecessary when it first appeared. Even as a young child, it felt pandering and distasteful.
I agree in some parts, some IPs like Honey I Shrunk the Kids did become outdated but I hardly see classic animated features like Ratatouille (that's already 15 years old) or even Frozen which will stay as a Disney classic even though I personally don't like it as much, becoming themselves outdated. But I do agree that they should've done a bit less use of IPs, maybe Frozen was best for MK or Guardians in Hollywood Studios and even other IPs fit better in EPCOT like Inside Out or Wall-E but were not included in the new renovations.
But I have to say some attractions in the old EPCOT needed to be replaced, for example the Universe of Energy and Ellen's energy adventure were just too boring, too much movies and in the case of Universe not very much fun, focusing only in education which needs to be balanced with fun, and Ellen was just so outdated with the same ride system based on stoping the car everytime time to see a movie or the pop culture, writing and even the science and in the case of World of Motion for me the ride was a bit too much like Spaceship Earth, so Test Track there was welcome addition, Nemo could've worked, but it was badly done and finally we reach Horizons and Imagination, the closing of both was probably the biggest mistake ever done in EPCOT, those are truly classic and timeless attractions. For me EPCOT died in 1999, ironically the year I was born, when Horizons closed and what I most miss on EPCOT today is the shared vision and hope of a better optimistic future for humankind.
(Sorry for any misspelling or odd writing, english is not my main language and I just wrote too much of it)
Cause that's why I'm a rooter, for me computer. Everybody needs a friend! The original Epcot soundtrack was great.
Horizons. World of Motion. Universe of Energy. The Living Seas. Kitchen Cabaret. Journey into Imagination. Captain EO. Rest in Peace.
The various soundtracks were definitely dated and products of their time, but that's a large part of the charm I think. It would be great to hear orchestral versions of these various themes being played around the park today.
@@PoseidonEntertainment it would be great if Disney released albums of their past amazing recorded tracks. They complain about guest spending, then refuse to provide things a good segment of their guests want.
I loved Horizons. It always smelled like oranges. The theming was top notch. My family first visited Epcot in 1988, so I got to experience the park as it was meant to be. Future World was always my favorite as a kid, unlike World Showcase which felt pretty tedious to walk through. The highlight of Showcase to me, however, was Maelstrom. The atmosphere and theming always interested me. That atmosphere just isn't there with Frozen Ever After. Want to turn a classic Disney attraction into a mediocre borefest? Just add IP it. If they really wanted to bring their IPs into the parks, they should just create a 5th Gate to Disney World. It's sad to me that I'm starting to feel more and more disinterested with going to a Disney park, especially since my family is full of Disneyphiles, and more and more interested in seeing the brighter-seeming future of the Universal Parks.
One of the issues with World Showcase was that it needed more substantial attractions, maybe even thrill rides. It's great for what it is, but it currently exists as a backdrop for dining options. Building a different iteration of The Matterhorn for a Swiss Pavilion? Yes please.
Excellent video. You covered every thought in my head perfectly. It is truly saddening how Disney treated this work of art. It’s getting increasingly difficult to believe Disney will one day fix Epcot, but people like you give me hope. If more and more people are made aware of how beautiful this park used to be, maybe it’ll force Disney to put some thought and effort into their parks once more.
It appears to me that even the many hardcore Disney parks fans are completely unaware of what EPCOT Center used to really be. That's a large factor for why I wanted to create the video, wanting to expose people to what they're missing.
Classic EPCOT was...remarkable. As a child there, it filled me with more wonder than any MK experience ever did, because it was about reality, not fantasy. They are taking a park that had NO comparison like it in the world, and making it into a theme-less mish-mash of IP and festivals. Around the country there are Science Centers that entertain children and adults and there's no reason why Disney can't do their own version of that with Epcot without trying to just make it into another IP driven park or thrill ride park. It's still my favorite, but more for nostalgia of remembering the past than anything, and the few little gems like Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land which remain.
Your point about various science museums hits it right on the head I think. The notion that Epcot was a "boring" park that children reluctantly went to stems from what I believe is a vocal minority. It's always a mistake to cater to the lowest-common-denominator and the current state of Epcot simply proves that point.
Thank you for bringing back such wonderful memories and for reminding me of why our families last visit in early 2016 will be our last! Though the complete and utter decimation of EPCOT is a large part of that decision, the complete unrecognizable nature of the resort in general is so totally unbearable. The truly sad part is that those who don’t remember or never knew the Magic Kingdom of the 70s and the MK and EPCOT of the 80s and even into the early 90s think that what they are getting is top quality and well worth the exuberant prices they are paying when those of us who have seen what it was realize that they are simply being screwed. Don’t get me wrong I realize that things have to change, that franchises change and the younger generations will have different characters and movies that they want to see and should see but my issue is with the character and nature of the resort in general. I remember being so amazed that you would rarely find a dead plant or trash anywhere at the resort, and yet today it’s more common than not. Add that to attractions clearly in disrepair and cast members who couldn’t tell you where the closest bathroom was much less where to find a particular piece of merchandise and there you go. I remember a day when you would ask for directions and a cast member would literally take you by the hand to make sure you got where you needed to be or would find another cast member that knew exactly what store you needed to go to to find what you were looking for. The last time we went I asked three different cast members a fairly simple question and two of them directed me to the app and one simply shrugged their shoulders and kept walking. And then there is my beloved EPCOT that has now been turned into a generic franchise exhibition with even more generic attractions that offer no imagination, creativity or “meat” but are simply designed to direct you to the huge gift shops of merchandising :-(
Add that to the drunk festival they have made of Flower and Garden, Food and Wine and Festival of the Arts and it is just pathetic. Mindnumbing, nauseatingly pathetic! Whatever now exists on that huge piece of property out there is not Disney but simply a giant corporate money pit disguised in Disney costuming. They have and will continue to keep charging more and giving less because they really have nothing to offer. They simply purchase franchises, reboot old franchises and more and more play second fiddle to a Universal that will soon become the trend setter, the mark of excellence that Disney once was while Disney continues to rest on Roy’s Financial genius and Walt’s name :-(
Classic Epcot has always been the center of why I love Disney, even though I never got to experience it since I was born 20 years after the park opened. After learning so much about the Epcot of old, it just saddens me that because of Chapek and Disney leadership my favorite park which once was an amazing educational experience is now just becoming another cheap IP filled garbage dump, and I say this after growing up going to the Eisner version. These reasons have actually why I’ve grown distant from my love of the parks, and looking back it really makes me sad
I agree. A large part of what makes current leadership so infuriating is how much they've destroyed the park, and for what? More green space to put food booths? More attractions that will undoubtedly just feel like hollow, one time experiences that won't hold up?
@@PoseidonEntertainment exactly.
But I need to take exception about "green spaces". WDW parks, especially Hollywood Studios and EPCOT both need more trees. I sorted saw that when I first visited Disneyland. But then it became obvious when they rebuilt Fantasyland a few years ago.
Hollywood Studios badly needs more water features too.
Why does Disneyworld feel the need to fill every square foot with attractions? (And too many which are without any sense of charm.)
Disney, please embrace what you do so best. Don't stop moving forward, but screens, in and of themselves, aren't necessarily "moving forward", nor charming alone. Often they are cold and unimaginative.
Agreed. Its gotten so bad that I honestly have lost any interest in ever returning to the parks. And I was a CM for 5 years, so its especially heartbreaking.
Same here. Epcot has always been part of my life and why I loved Disney. It’s conversion and more recent demolition just hurts hard.
Felt like this about block buster...😢
I am so upset I was not born to see OG Epcot it looked like something I would absolutely love
I liked the "slow moving" dark rides of EPCOT. I like high speed and thrill rides as well. I also like IP. But, everything has its place. Mission Space, especially with its new restaurant makes for an excellent Space Pavilion, but Horizons wasn't about that. Like explained in the video, Horizons took from the other Futureworld pavilions to tell its narrative. It was very much a sequel to Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress. It was more of a signature attraction for the park than Spaceship Earth. Spaceship Earth made for a nice icon or weenie, but it was merely about communication and then later became about narrative. Horizons was about humankind and its place in the world; the vision of EPCOT. It's a sad loss for the park.
I suppose what the average guest might consider "dated" about these lost attractions is their conveyance and style of narrative. Spaceship Earth, Horizons, Journey Through Imagination, World of Motion, Living Seas and even the Energy Pavilion all utilise a "slow moving" omnimover system that mostly tells a narrative that spans from the distance past on through the future. While the Fantasyland dark rides are omnimover based attractions, their ride vehicles differ and are integral to their corresponding attraction. Guests ride a motor car in Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. They take a ride on a flying galleon in Peter Pan's Adventure. They journey under the sea in a clamshell to visit the realm of the Little Mermaid. Having that story relevant vehicle provides greater immersion than a generic omnimover vehicle. I don't mind sitting back, taking in the narrative like a fly on the wall. But, I think certain guests want greater immersion. They want to somehow be involved in the narrative. Rather than replacing the World of Motion with TestTrack, I would have made the omnimover ride vehicle the gimmick. It could have been a GM or Chevrolet time travel vehicle of the future that took guests on a journey through time to witness the evolution of transportation. In Journey Into Imagination, guests could have played a more active role in collecting dreams with Figment and the Dreamfinder utilising the laser point and shoot system of Buzz Lightyear. As for Horizons, I'm satisfied with its omnimover system. It really just needed updating in its futuretech, swapping out things like modern day "Zoom" calls for something holographic, perhaps.
Of course, Nemo and Friends and even Moana are unnecessary additions for a successful Seas pavilion. I like the Seabase Alpha concept. I love the hydrolator. It was the space elevator of its day. If Seabase Alpha and the overall Seas pavilion need more of a narrative or an IP, why not look to Captain Nemo and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Captain Nemo loved the sea and wanted to protect and cultivate its ecosystem in his isolation from the rest of humanity. The Seabase could easily undergo a steampunk redressing. (Not that its even necessary.) Being in (what was) Futureworld, Seabase Alpha can remain set in the future. It just needs an update of its futuretech and overall esthetic. Rather than applying IP to existing attractions, Disney ought to create more cinematic and television IP inspired by its attractions. The original Frontierland in Disneyland was popular among guests in its early years because of Walt Disney's Zorro on ABC and the Davy Crockett segments on the Disneyland TV series. If Disney were to create a scifi oceanographic TV series set within Seabase Alpha (similar to Seaquest DSV), I would definitely watch it. And I think such a series would make guests want to visit its setting within a Disney park much like guests flock to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal and visit Galaxy's Edge and Pandora at Walt Disney World. (I'm imagining a refreshed Seabase Alpha at EPCOT and perhaps even a new Seabase Beta at Tokyo DisneySea.) An expansion to the Seas pavilion could include a (Tokyo) 20,000 Leagues type of attraction where guests depart from the Seabase on an exploratory mission and defend themselves from a giant squid attack or discover a new underwater species of humanoids, that have perhaps relocated from a distant water world on the other side of the galaxy.
As for World Showcase, I'm always in favour of sharing or depicting the nations' cultures and folklore over Disney IP. Yes, fairytales like the Snow Queen, the Little Mermaid, Snow White, Pinocchio, Aladdin and even Mary Poppins may have originated in countries represented in World Showcase, but do these particular stories reflect the essence of these nations? Mary Poppins is about a particular London family and their nanny during the 1910s. How does that tell the story of the people of the United Kingdom? Perhaps a better story would be inspired by Camelot. The Sword in the Stone is featured in Fantasyland, but there is much more to the fabled reign of King Arthur than his pulling the sword from the stone. Also, the Arthurian legends are engrained in the origins of their kingdom which lives on today under the reign of the House of Windsor. The story of Ratatouille is set in Paris, but it says little of the people of France. Sure, the French are skilled culinary artists and Paris is the capital. But, it's superficial representation at best. Imagine Oliver & Company representing the US in World Showcase. It's an English story adapted to cats and dogs living in New York City. It makes just as much sense as Ratatouille representing France. Marianne is the symbol and the personification of the French Republic. Perhaps she should take guests on a historical journey though the birth and rebirth of the French nation. (Notice, I'm not mentioning the Hunchback of Notre Dame , The Three Musketeers or The Man in the Iron Mask.) Disney and Disney Imagineers are capable of great storytelling. They just need to be free of the mandate of pushing Disney IP over storytelling.
I'm so thankful that i got to experience epcot as it was in the early 90's. Epcot was so different than any other theme park. It made learning as kid fun. This video really tugged at my heart. I went to Epcot the other day and it's a complete mess. I wonder if there will ever be anyone who can keep from only doing ips and wall screens. I know it's not related to Epcot but runway railway is a perfect example of that. Yes it's mickey but hardly and ais and mostly wall screens. Money will always run everything but at what cost.
Thank you so much for making this video! I hate the direction Disney is taking with EPCOT. It was always my favorite park but as more and more changes occur it just feels like a hollow shell of its former self. I miss educational EPCOT not IP World. I can only hope that they reverse course and bring it back to how it used to be, but I feel like Disney just sees dollar signs when they look at IP integration and not actually staying true to the vision of EPCOT. Just as long as the little kids want to ride Frozen they see no issue.
From an adult perspective, I have so much respect for what EPCOT accomplished. This is a tough deal, because EPCOT, while it was an absolute work of art, lacked on thrills and connection with characters. Younger guests want that when they go to Disney parks, otherwise it can often be written off as boring. Still, I hope there is a bright future for EPCOT. Great video BTW.
It's amazing how well Horizons tied into your other experiences at Epcot. You could play a version of the synthesizer in Imagination, you would see the hydroponic plants in the land, you could eat at an underwater restaurant at the living seas, you could make dinner reservations on a "video phone kiosk". You most likely rode the monorail and traveled to the moon at the top of spaceship earth. It was the future and it was right there for you to experience.
This was really interesting, it makes me feel nostalgic over the old EPCOT despite never being there.
Same. I never experienced it, but it feels like a reverent place, completely buried under the mess that the park is today.
Same here.
I’ve heard so many people say “Oh, Epcot was so boring. Disney’s not for learning!” Over the years, including those dumb talking heads on those VH1 nostalgia programs back in the early 00’s. I don’t so much hate these people, as I feel sad for them. Disney stood for so much more than cartoons during his life.
This reminds of when Fantasia flopped during its first theatrical run. Disney was trying to do something to stand out from the other animation studios, and the public just wanted more funny cartoons. Even when the company brings it up today, they only focus on the bit with Mickey Mouse.
I’m really glad you made this documentary, because I’ve finally found someone who got classic Epcot in the same way I did.
I appreciate your insights, and I think you’re mostly correct in that they weren’t exactly outdated. And I like how you point out the focus on imagination. But here’s my memory of 1988 EPCOT. Boring. I was 8 years old, there for my birthday, and I got to take several days off of school for this special trip. I have great memories of the Magic Kingdom: It’s a Small World, Pirates, Space Mountain, etc. Fabulous memories. Our family spent a whole day there and planned the second day for EPCOT, thinking we’d have a whole day there too. My memory is thinking that the “giant golf ball ride” was fun, and another one like it (I think the World of Motion) was okay, and that’s it. 3 generations of my family were bored. We left after lunch to go back to Magic Kingdom. Fewer kids want to spend their vacation learning something “fun” than you’d think. I don’t think EPCOT’s visitors numbers were high enough, so they just tried something to bring it up. I don’t disagree that they made bad moves going forward at all though.
unfortunately this is the truth. not enough people were interested in these awesome attractions, especially kids. sad but true
Classic Epcot was just so great. It was always the quieter, more mature park and as a teenager going to Disney, I much appreciated it. Horizons was hands down my favourite ride in the park. It was clever, sentimental, optimistic, and those dome screens were amazing. I have so many great memories when it comes to classic Epcot, inside jokes with family, and even knowing a trick to the Living Seas pavillion (a lot of times I just wanted to chill at the Aquarium, and there's a way to go back to where the elevator exit "leads back to the surface" and it was very easy to slip in when people were leaving). The Mexico ride had some really cool Day of the Dead theming, all the 360 theatres were great, and there was even some great food off the beaten path. Norway used to have this smoked fish buffet? Amazing. Speaking of food and old Epcot, The Land had this cake. It was just a triple layer chocolate cake, but it was somehow the perfect cake. I know there are prolly recipes out there to replicate it, but I'm terrible with baking, so it's of little use to me. XD it's just another thing to miss. God, I could literally go on, this video has unlocked so much good (and sad) nostalgia. Sure Ratatouille is a cool ride but at what cost??? That immersion breaking fountain ffs. I mean it's cute and all but honestly, it reminded me so much of the one outside of Muppet-Vision....
(Also, was the shop in Japan always so jammed up with anime?)
EPCOT was always a failed version of Walt's vision. I was at there on opening day when I was 5 yo and I grew up seeing the original version of Epcot. It was magical, in a different way than Magic Kingdom. For those interested in technology, it gave a glimpse of what the future could bring. What we see today is a very sad version of what it used to be and i doubt the new renovations will bring back the magic of yesterday.
The first time I went to EPCOT, I discovered something I had never experienced before. Self opening doors. I realize they are everywhere now, but not when I was young and first experienced the park. It seemed like a great idea, and so logical.
Thank you for making this, I’ve been waiting for a video like this to exist, all the old amazing stuff in one video. This is exactly the stuff I was citing in my comment on your Efteling Park video about how that park has some rides with the feel of old Epcot. If it’s at least preserved in videos like this it’s at least alive in memory.
Horizons was a pretty interesting attraction With an unusual system, Journey into Imagination was so timeless that it could fit in the Park forever With almost little to no changes, the seas Pavillion was a more didactic attraction than the seas With Nemo, I would kill for a time machine and visit Epcot at it's prime.
I agree. Peak Epcot appears to be around 1989.
I happen to disagree, even though I was born in the 2000’s, Epcot’s peak years were 1982-1993. But it definitely was still in it’s prime by the 2000’s, even if that was when it started to slip, and the slippage got worse by the late 2010’s - early 2020’s.
I visited Epcot back in July of 1985 with family only a few years after it initially opened - then again in 1987 when I brought my then-girlfriend from England to the park. All I can say is that, while nothing lasts forever, not even Disney attractions, it's sad to see so many of those attractions that I remember from my visits in the 80s now gone. All that is left are the photographs tucked away in the photo albums of people like me, and a few surviving home videos - though they are more rare since camcorders back then were bulky, user-unfriendly, and expensive so not many had them. I'm glad that I took a lot of pictures back then - pictures of places that no longer exist. I really do think that we leave a small piece of our essence behind in the places we visit. Thus, when one of those places is destroyed, there is a sort of ... loss ... that is difficult to put into words. Yet it is tangible. Not as strong as the loss of family or friends - or the destruction of a place that contains a lot of memories - but it can be felt nonetheless. It is no wonder, then, why we sometimes fight progress, why we resist the ridding of the old to make way for the new. It's just too bad that, in the case of Epcot, it seems as if all that is happening is replacing the old with ... well ... nothing. More restaurants. More stores. More trees and picnic tables. Epcot will no longer have that inspirational quality it once did and will instead resemble a state fair with a hodgepodge of unrelated rides, a few shows, and an event here and there. A demolition derby next to a "fattest pig" competition next to a tractor pull next to a pie eating contest next to a karaokie bar next to mud wrestling next to a funnel cake and candy apple stand.
I used to be a denier of past Epcot's quality, but now, with this video, I've become a true believer. It looks magical. If they took this and only added Soarin', it would have been perfect. I wish I could've been there to see it.
I like to rewatch the documentary on a Disney Archives DVD names "The Dream Called Epcot". It played on property before Epcot's opening, and it's beautiful. It shows Imagineers explaining the inspiration and attractions in opening day Epcot, and it has an amazing ending song.
The future started Oct. 1, 1982, and ended on September 30, 2005.
I hope Disney historians know the significance of that date.
Epcot was my favorite part of Disney and now what it’s be come is nothing of it’s former self,it has been destroyed from what I remember it being and there’s no way that I’d spend a fortune to go to a Disney park in Florida and I got to go to Epcot when it first opened and it’s just sad to see what it’s become.😢
One of the original opening crew here (World Key Information Services.) Such bittersweet memories. I haven't been to Epcot since they started ripping out Communicore. I know I'll feel a profound sadness to see so many things gone, but progress travels onward, right? Thank you for encapsulating them here in this video.
Wow, what a beautiful video of yours ! I can agree once again to 100 % with your opinion.
Original Epcot was just perfect as a park and it is mind blowing what happens to it and happening right now…
Especially losing World of Motion, the original Journey into Imagination and Horizons hurts, even if I only know them all from videos.
Being a part of EPCOT Center's opening, this video is superb with insight and valuable criticism.
I long for the day when Disney was full of creative people and outstanding parks.
I will never forgive them for what they did to "Imagination". In 2012 I went back to the park for the first time since 1996 and I was heartbroken when I saw the state of "Imagination". Both the ride and pavilion where a highlight of my time there as a kid & it kills me that my kids wont get to experience them.
Why they got rid of the animatronic rides? Why only keep spaceship earth? What happened to the animatronics!
My thoughts exactly. I'm just happy I got to see most of this stuff before it started going away. But there is a world of old Epcot content on UA-cam for you to discover.
The Land, American Adventure, Imagination, Nemo?
The animatronics are in some Disney exec's game room or got recycled for crappier rides.
1973, 1976, 1979, 1982.....every three years my family drove to Disney from Buffalo, NY. My favorite "year" was 1982, as Epcot was open only three months when we visited. This video was a real blast from my own past...so many fond memories of such a new and novel pleasure ground.
What I find so interesting with say, the energy pavilion becoming a completely pointless guardians of the galaxy ride, is that the aspect of learning about different sources of energy and their uses will always be relevant, whereas a guardians of the galaxy ride dates itself already, as it’s not as important to society. It’s more just silly.
The one pavilion that sorta retains its meaning, is definitely living with the land. It certainly has changed every year, but it’s still retaining its aspect of the land and it’s importance to us.
I believe that the energy theme has been completely dropped. I recall it being touted as the "Other Worlds Pavilion" or something stupid like that?
Poseidon Entertainment it’s almost as if Disney doesn’t really care/understand exactly what made Epcot Epcot
EPCOT was my favorite place to be as a kid from 2002-2009 when we were annual pass holders (and living in Orlando for a number of those years) and I can’t believe how many of these attractions that not only I hadn’t seen (being far before my time) but that I had never even heard of. It’s been more than a decade since I’ve been to Disney world but oh goodness I wish I could go to *this* epicot. At least it can live in my head rent free.
I had a hard time watching this video, with misty eyes. You did a wonderful job putting together in what I like to call this time the "GOLDEN YEARS" of EPCOT. When I see what the new park offers I am saddened, people have no idea what they have missed out on. It's a shell of a park now so dumbed down it's awful. The inttelect, the wit, the imagination, the fun are gone, replaced with trite. My kids when they were little loved Epcot it sparked their creative juices without being preachie. A time gone to greed and avarice.
My sister and I were deciding on what amusement park to go to she didn't even try to convince me to do Disney like she always would. She's probably the biggest Disney fan I know, but with all the cost cutting and lack luster new experiences, it's just completely turned her off ever wanting to go back.
Perhaps this indicates a larger trend. I hope that Disney is in for an awakening over the next few years.
Same here, next visit i make to Orlando will probably be elsewhere and I'm a huge Disney fan, went every year with family from 2018 until the pandemic
We are going to pass on it with our grandkids. There are other options closer to home in Texas.
World of Motion was my favorite ride in EPCOT when I was a kid lol I loved the funny gags… oh and the original Imagination ride… sigh.
World of Motion was a great attraction. Test Track is a hollow reincarnation.
WoM was a highly imaginative attraction about transportation and how it made society progress. Test Track is about GM/Chevy and how they design and test cars. See a difference there?
I believe that World of Motion, Imagination and Horizons creates a classic trio that I would bring back immediately if given the chance. I'm glad that Spaceship Earth has survived, but Epcot is missing so many core experiences.
This definitely was a nostalgic moment for me. Which reminded me how Epcot was so special.
So glad you made this video. Made me remember going to epcot when I was a kid. I kinda forgot about those original rides but as the video played it brought back great memories! Going back to Disney this Christmas. Skipping Epcot because the kids said they didn't want to go to that park. Which to me speaks volumes about its current state. Keep up the good work!
The current park is such a mess. If it weren't for World Showcase, I'm not sure that I would even still really go to the park anymore. Even then, it continues to decline though.
It’s so nice to see footage of the parks from the 90s
2007 was the last time the Disney parks felt like Disney to me, you could just go and explore without looking at your phone and everything seemed to be genuine across all the parks
Epcot was my favorite, now I walk around and hear the new “modern” music and see the new stores and I feel like im walking around some mall outlets with some generic Disney stores in it
Thanks for the videos, would love to see Disney go back in this direction instead of commercializing every aspect
what if you had your own epcot attraction?
this video felt like one in itself.
inspiring future generations how not to run a park, and how not to be Bob chapek
I’d ride that
They need to show your video essays at Epcot shareholder meetings honestly
The more I learn about the EPCOT Center the more abhorrent and an affront to the optimistic sensibility of Walt Disney the current incarnation of the park becomes. Imagine the kind of callous thinking that drives someone to WANT to eviscerate the original Journey Into Imagination. It's actually quite hard for me to get my head around.
I believe that Journey Into Imagination was a timeless classic that had the potential to last for generations, with occasional updates to keep it fresh and "plus" the effects (as they've done with the Fantasyland dark rides, for example). The changes that were made to it seem to reflect a crass and shallow side to 90s pop culture. Unfortunately the damage was done.
Just found your channel and it is brilliant! Finally someone who talks the truth about Disney parks, and not just drinking the kool aid. We love the parks here and truly miss how they used to be. well done and cannot wait to watch the rest of the visdeos!
If Epcot had the right management who knew how to invest in it properly it would be one of the greatest parks in the world. It's incredibly frustrating.
That's true, but really prime Epcot only seemed to last about 10 years. It's somewhat astounding how quickly the park has changed and gone through three different dramatically different iterations in a little under 40 years.
This is the EPCOT I remember as a kid in the 80’s and early 90’s. Journey into Imagination and World of Motion were my two favourites
yes, my first visit to epcot was in 1991. going again this year, mostly for the expensively priced international cafeteria food. 😅
I remember classic Epcot, and it was amazing... absolutely amazing! ...Sad what happened. At least we have videos of the rides!. "Martins ultimate tributes" (as mentioned in this video) are really good.
I agree. I discovered, with World of Motion especially, how difficult it is to convey the content of these attractions because of how poor video quality was at the time. I'm glad that Martin was able to provide far more depth and context than any video could portray.
I admit I was a little reluctant to see this video "oh boy, another theme park channel", but it turned out to be one of best videos I've seen recently. Great script and the information was based on evidence and not only personal experience, and also left with that need to reflect on what was presented after the video ended.
That said, I totally agree with the opinions presented: Disney is about creativity and dreams of a better future not IPs. Want to attract newer generations? Allow them to dream, give them a clean canvas of endless possibilities and not only memories of past productions (Nemo, Frozen, ...)*, that was what I loved about EPCOT, as I child after I left the park I would keep remembering the attractions and dreaming about ways to make that future come true.
*not that I don't love those movies, I do, but there's a time and place for everything and EPCOT is not the place for that, EPCOT is (or should be) about "here's where we came from and how we got here, now it's up to you to continue the story"
A main benefit of Disney World's size is that Disney can plan ahead and grow/improve the parks without destroying what already works. Choosing to demolish beloved attractions instead of just adding more unique ones shows how poor their planning is. It's like if they tore down Haunted Mansion to add Galaxies Edge...oh wait, they did a similar thing at MGM with the Backlot and Streets of America...where they should have had plenty of room to avoid that.
It's shameful and idiotic to completely write off their own imagineer's previous (high quality and iconic) work. They can easily update what's there in thoughtful ways.
Disney doesn't realize how risky it is to rely on IP, often integrated with cheap off the shelf rides or projection only. The fact that Disney felt confident opening Mickey's Runaway Railway after seeing Pooh's Hunny Hunt in Tokyo (20yrs earlier), or TDL's Beuaty and the Beast ride (that imagineers were building simultaniously!) shows how little they care, and how shortsighted they are.
I stronly believe that Disney should rebuild these classic Epcot/MGM attractions with updates to very minor elements that were outdated. As others have said, it's totally fine to add thrill attractions, but NOT as replacements for high quality, park defining rides.
This video clearly presents the issues with the current direction of EPCOT. In the early days I would be mesmerized by the focus on the future and our potential for a better world. It has devolved into, as you put it, IP related disappointments. The "Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Caballeros" at the Mexico pavilion is one of the best examples of just how far EPCOT has fallen. Thanks for laying out how and why this has come to be.
80s EPCOT was best EPCOT. User 'mcog 2006' hit the nail on the head in his comment. EPCOT, at it's best, was a place that celebrated and encouraged inspiration and possibilities. I promise you that these themes are, always have been, and always will be, attractive to young minds and old minds alike.
Epcot and especially the Communicore really sparked my interest into technology when I was a kid. It was so amazingly cool seeing the robotics and computer demonstrations.
So, soooo many facts presented here
Also I can’t help but notice on videos about Epcot like this how many die hard fans there are - we could have easily populated the experimental prototype community Walt dreamed of
I'm quite skeptical that Walt's vision of EPCOT would have worked and I greatly prefer the theme park adaptation of that concept, even if I think the idea is fascinating. It's just... well, obviously that park was so short lived.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I can definitely see your point there, not *exactly* like his initial concept since that was rooted in like pre 1960s ideals of the future lol - but I look at these newfangled urban housing concepts that are combining living, working, retail/etc spaces and I always think that that’s what we might’ve could’ve had with Epcot
My daughter is a huge frozen fan. Even she didn’t like having Frozen ride shoved into Epcot. ‘’This doesn’t make sense dad’’ it’s clear to a 5 year old
I grew up in Orlando and have nothing but great memories of the older attractions - Kitchen Kabaret, Horizons, Cranium Command, etc.
Being such a massive fan of the Disney parks, it's always saddened to me that the original Epcot was probably one of the best theme parks the world has ever seen, and yet it stopped existing before I was even born. It's almost a Shakespearean tragedy at this point. Thank you for making this video, it perfectly articulates things I've been trying to explain to myself for a while now. I've sadly never been but if I manage to get myself to WDW within my lifetime, I hope by then that Disney management begins to understand and respect the original concept of the park. Fantastic video, one of your best so far.
I only experienced the 90s Eisner version of the park, but even I recognize what an incredible place it was. Bringing back the original spirit of Epcot would be the best move for the park I believe.
This is going to sound far-fetched and probably nonsensical, but I would like to see them put some scenes from World of Motion in a possible third iteration of "Test Track". Maybe slow down some of the indoor portion to allow guests to take in the show scenes and rename it back to World of Motion as well. It would bring back some of EPCOT's educational values while still keeping the thrills everyone loves about Test Track.
I’m a Floridian, lived in Orlando for many years. Loved the original Epcot. E Ticket rides! Used to go to breakfast at The Land. while you ate, you got to rotate and see part of the land. Loved the carousel of progress and horizon pavilion, imagination pavilion (the original FIGMENT).Energy had great dinosaurs. Even the slow moving wedway people mover was a pleasant rest from walking so much. We attended the park so many times. Loved the food and wine festival, tasting foods from all the countries around the lagoon. It was a really a great day. So very sad to see the destruction of such a wonderful park. Excellent presentation. Thanks for posting this. ❤️
Man, I really wish I could've experienced the original EPCOT.
Great video, Poseidon. I especially like the musical accompaniment.
I share your sorrow over Disney’s steady departure from EPCOT’s original mission. EPCOT was, and remains, my favorite park for that reason. Unfortunately, I don’t think we are likely to halt or reverse this decline anytime soon. I think the problems are both structural-historical and generational.
EPCOT was designed with the expectation that experiences would be sponsored over the long term, helping to finance updates as well as basic maintenance. I don’t expect sponsorship to return as a common business model for the Disney Parks. Not only did that business model prove torturous, meaning it is unlikely to be preferred as a future approach, but the social media age brings a new horror to cross-branding. Because Disney is no longer struggling the way it was when EPCOT was new, projects can be kept fully in-house. But that means they will be a different kind of project.
Corporate sponsorships worked on two levels. First, they meant that external partners were underwriting theme park costs-good for Disney. But secondarily, it made sense for big corporations to participate in a venture that would associate their brands with positive images of efficiency, family, and progress. This meant that the attractions needed to have theming of a kind that works only in an edutainment setting. (Why else would you want to visit The Kaiser Aluminum Hall of Fame?)
Eisner is lauded as the one who first recognized the potential for synergy between Disney’s film and television library and other forms of commercial activity, including theme park attractions. Compared to 1982, the Disney IP library is today substantially larger and broader. It is entirely natural that Iger, having bought Marvel, would want to push that into the parks, and while I’d have preferred to see those new attractions go down in Hollywood Studios, I can’t fault them too much for thinking to replace old EPCOT rides rather than expand existing park footprints.
The best we can hope for, I think, is for “Reboot Mania” to take hold around Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Renaissance Era materials that will bring more nostalgia back to the parks for persons of our age cohort. Hollywood Studios could do with a Seven Seas club, for instance.
Another problem: there is a now a literal industry of people who visit the parks regularly to report out on what is happening. These people are not all happy about the direction Disney is taking, but the economic signals they’re sending crowd out the opinions they share online. They’re giving the parks free advertising even as they inveigh against Genie+.
Third, we’ve entered a new time in which we, as a global community, generally feel very poorly about ourselves. Disney has always thrived in the moments when optimism outweighed pessimism: in the 1950s and early 1960s, again in the 1980s, and once more in the 2010s. But thanks to COVID, we’ve entered another downturn. It may be easier, in some sense, to engage with fairly two-dimensional superhero tropes than with visions of a harmonious, purpose-focused future for which Walt is so beloved.
I think the pandemic will also leave a lasting impact on the parks. I was hoping, with the advent of Batuu and the Intergalactic Star Cruiser, that Disney would begin to consider expanding the live-action entertainment options at the parks. Instead of multi-million dollar roller coasters, give us more street shows and interactive theater. Now, I expect those things will be considerably delayed.
I don't have the time to make construct a meaningful reply, but I will say that you provide a lot of interesting perspective and I appreciate the time you took to type this out.
My lad, is there a patreon or any way to support your work other than liking/subscribing/sharing? Your videos are excellent and your viewpoint on the evolution of the parks is refreshing
A patreon isn't really something that I'm interested in doing as I don't really have the time to produce anything exclusive for subscribers. That being said, I appreciate your support though!
I can remember the first time my parents brought me to EPCOT in 1983 when I was 6 years old. Fascinating at the time. I still have my Figment the purple dragon doll to this day!
Disney has been screwing up Epcot since circa 1998. Thanks for the great video.
I experienced Epcot during its first decade, and I absolutely loved its positive view of the world to come, as well as its interactive exhibits. I agree with you about its original attractions; I believe they'd still be popular today, even with the inevitable improvements they'd eventually need.
I can still remember my initial response to Journey Into Your Imagination....I was so disgusted, I vowed never to ride again. I broke that vow when Figment was returned, but it didn't improve the ride. If anything, it actually made it worse.
Hasn't it occurred to whoever's running the parks these days that some of their oldest, not to mention iconic attractions....the Jungle Cruise, It's A Small World, Pirates Of The Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion....are not only STILL popular, but weren't based on any movie or TV show?
The current iteration of Imagination isn't just a disservice to Figment, so much as it destroys his character. He became annoying and unlikeable, killing what made him so great.
I also agree with your point about the older attractions. People would actively boycott the parks if something like the Haunted Mansion was torn down in favor of some IP tie in. The lack of understanding for what makes the parks so appealing is astounding.
oh how i so wish i was alive during the original epcot…
I lived in Daytona Beach 1986 to 1993. I had a Florida resident three season pass in 1988 and 1989. I went to Magic Kingdom and EPCOT numerous times both years. I think that was EPCOT at its peak, and I loved it
I am still upset they got rid of the entrance music. I'll probably never get over that, it was such an awesome, nostalgic tune. Ughhh... and making the Leave a Legacy panels into a giant entrance wall is so disrespectful to all of us who made those and consider them memorials. My dad and I have one, and he is no longer with me, so it was always so nice to visit those pretty granite panels to see our picture whenever I visited. Honestly, every decision Disney has made in recent years has felt like a slap in the face.
I never understood the hate that the Leave a Legacy display got. Sure it bottlenecked the entrance a bit, but people made it out to be some horrible eyesore when it really wasn't.
@@PoseidonEntertainment True! I always thought it looked pretty, and the panels led your eye up to Spaceship Earth...and it being inside the park made it all feel much more secure. I think it's more of an eyesore now, honestly. Yikes!
An uncle of mine visited Epcot back in the early 80s and I was greatly fascinated by the stories of his experiences ever since. I wanted to go on a trip to experience this park myself. Which is not so easy since I live at the other side of the planet. 10 years ago I finally had the opportunity to go. It was a nice park, but I couldn't fully relate with my uncle's enthusiasm until I saw old ride videos of these former darkrides. Lucky these people who take great care to document these old gems. Sad that these are gone and replaced by cheap IPs.
Ok… so hear me out. Disney is in trouble, nothing they are doing is making money. But they love reusing there old properties. So let’s remake Epcot 80,s style and call it Epcoy - experimental city of yesterday.
I’m not sure how I stumbled onto your channel, but I LOVE it!! Thank you for excellent content and for bringing back memories of things long forgotten. It is a bit sad looking at EPCOT today. ❤️
This park used to be SO good. As a kid, I didn't understand it, but as I grew older the park became my favorite one! Then they killed it. In a day where people are growing to love nostalgia, it would have been so good to be able to take my kids to see these amazing attractions. Spaceship Earth (early 90s edition) is still one of my favorites. I can close my eyes and smell burning Rome still today.
I think attractions were and are being updated or redone not because they're thematically outdated but because the experience itself is outdated. Ultimately disney wants to sell tickets and for them to do so they have to make rides that children and adults are excited to ride and fascinated by. unfortunately a lot of the older rides don't quite do that as much. not that the new rides are always doing that either, but i think thats the real rationale.
Man…I miss Horizons
I really appreciate the incredible amount of work that went into this video!
Thank you for this. I mean, I know this wasn't targeted at me, but this was my favorite park for so long. Horizons was my favorite ride in all of WDW. I miss the interactivity of so many things throughout the park. 40 years on, and I still remember the melody to the Universe of Energy's theme, the VERY John Denver-esque "Listen to the Land," and "Imagination." My dad loved Figment from day one. I miss coming out of the rides and seeing all the new concept cars on display. Now, it's all either been gutted or is entirely non-existent. Between MGM/Hollywood Studios no longer being about the magic of making movies and Epcot being a practically distinct identity from EPCOT, as well as the bazillion downgrades in customer service there in all fronts, I feel I have no real reason to go anymore. I've never been a thrill ride guy, and never wanted IP theming anywhere outside of the MK. I'd say. "Oh, well. Guess I get to save money," but it really is heart-breaking.
Original EPCOT was amazing. It was my favorite park. As each change was made, it lessened my enjoyment. Was it truly necessary to get rid of Horizons? It seems as though each of the pavilions could easily be timeless with minor updates here and there.
Martinsvids is one of the legends in the Disney Parks fan community 👏👏😀
Your attention to detail is great and this is a very complete presentation. My only issue is that this comes across as you presenting your opinion as fact. I agree with your assessment of Chapek for sure and I may even agree with you stating that the early EPCOT rides should have been kept and updated along with new attractions. You have to take into consideration that a great many people love the current EPCOT and are looking forward to the changes.
Getting rid of EuroDisney's Space Mountain was beyond stupid and why Disney doesn't correct this mistake is even more beyond my comprehension.
I never understood the original neutering of the attraction, but the current iteration makes sense. The need to stuff in IP inappropriately everywhere is just so mind-numbingly frustrating.
Journey Into Imagination was my FAVORITE ride in Future World as a kid (with Horizons running at a close second) and we spent over an hour playing in Image Works while the adults sat down and rested. Compared to back then, Future World seems so EMPTY now.
I SO Miss the Dreamfinder!!!!!!
There are so many new technologies and theories that could be used in epcot like virtual reality, cybernetics, space exploration, andriods, and many other things that could be used to update the park while keeping the community of tomorrow vibe in place. But Disney so caught up on taking their movies to their parks rather then creating new stories, it's even the same thing with some of the movies they create. But at the end of the day if we want Disney to stay open, they will have to do that. Because people grow, get older and no longer are the main money makers of their park they have to stay up to date and keep the eyes of their younger audience.
I'm not sure if I agree that Disney needs to pivot towards movie IP to stay relevant. They were top of the industry before. At this point, it's just a matter of packing the parks to the absolute brim despite being just fine regardless.
Not gonna go through the comments…but besides the attractions Epcot Center had the BEST music ever…it’s still my “go to” music to get in the Disney mood.
I used to think the vocal parts were a bit hokey, but they've definitely grown on me.