The pitch is that the upscaling tech allows low-to-mid-budget studios to speed up development, spend less time on game optimization and focus more on content production. Turns out nothing prevents the tippity-top of the industry from using it and now the AAA and even AAAA-budget projects are also skipping optimization and instead run in fake resolutions and generate fake frames and end up looking worse than Arkham Knight (2015).
Optimization? What is that? Just use DLSS FSR and cut the cost of having a team dedicated to optimization. DLSS/FSR are so great technologies that are being utilized extremely wrong. Instead of being use as a complementary tool is being used as replacement of the optimization process
It's just like patches. They were meant as a tool to fix bugs in a game or add content. Instead the patches quickly became a crutch releasing games broken and hoping day 0 and day 1 patches fixed it.
Upscaling was 100% seen as a saving grace over the past 5 years to these corporations. They were already slacking hard on optimization in games throughout the late 2010's. I remember every new AAA game coming out at the time had comments/reviews saying "the game is good but it has horrible optimization". I'd like to think the community was holding out hope that if we kept reviewing them poorly things would get better...... then came the upscalers. Now any game that comes out running like dogshit has 3 upscaler options to compensate and it rolled the clock back on consumers by almost a decade. There are some games that have the upscaling turned on by default and it's just a sad sight to see. I can't remember what game i'm thinking of specifically but it came out right as DLSS 3.1 FG released i believe.
I don't care what anybody says nothing looks better then Native 4k, Ray-tracing looks good but is never worth it and DLSS has been more of an excuse for companies to not optimize!
it can be worth it, and devs can be using this tech as a crutch. more than one thing can be true, because not every developer is the same, not every player is the same. you can play cyberpunk at 1440p with all the bells and still hit 90+ fps and it looks great. DLSS set to quality looks almost indistinguishable from native and balanced is still a good option if you need to use it, performance is the only option that genuinely looks terrible.
Reminds me of when guitarists use pre amps for their main distortion to boost their gain and wonder why their tone is crap. You're using your tools incorrectly.
Ghosting is AWFUL in the SX version of Jedi Survivor. Turning off motion blur helps but it's negligible. The game generally looks really good but when you start noticing the ghosting it really detracts from the experience and I can't believe it hasn't been patched out.
The Last of Us Part 2 is the great example for optimization, dude PS4 is almost ten years and the graphics of the game with baked techniques still looking good (even 30FPS). Less ghosting and not blurry.
Upscaling looks better than native when it's implemented well and right, but we all know that only a few game developers go the extra mile to make it look good. There is a reason why quite a huge amount of silicon is dedicated to AI upscaling and frame generation. Times of brute force rendering is long gone unless you are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for bigger chip.
The Fact is Upscaling is a Fake Thing that makes you think your getting Raw power , so AMD & Nvidia Both made it so they can limit Cost long term and Limit our Consumer products so they can sell low end or some what lower end gpus and make you feel like your getting High End Halo Products . What ended up happening is Consoles Could Not handle True Raw Graphical Power so AMD came up with a Solution to use Upscale tech but Overreliance has turned Both AMD & Nvidia into a Complacent Puppy , Console Companies Sony , Valve , Microsoft so it as a Yea so they put Money into This with newer Consoles and Now the Truth is invasion has become Stagnant Over the overreliance on making Consoles and Games Pushing to more into the o yea console Graphical Power and not push the Game engines to its Limits , AMD just even said they are not making any New High end GPUS , this will slow down the Competitive Market . But Consoles are also 100% to Blame Companies that make Video Games Have a X amount of people and Money , To develop a 100% pc game is super limited Now every game development studio keeps making games with Console Graphics and limits True Innovation because Consoles cant do what PCs do due to how Consoles are Cooled down and that Cooling technology has not fully been innovated in a very long time , its nit like you can put a 24 gig vram rx 7900xtx inside a PS5 so Consoles are being prioritized hints also the Upscale technology . Look at a few games like dragon age veilguard lol 10 year old game engine so ea. Microsoft limit Growth in gaming due to the Wider consumer . Those reason i listed is Because Game development studios Publishers are all talking to each other with AMD & Nvidia . so Thats why they are pushing Upscales so they can Milk Console Gamers and F up the Evolution in game development so they can spend less This also Has Thrown AAA out the window all this has a Effect on Game development how Company's pick High end game development game play and so much more , Upscales are now the drug for Game developers , Look at Dragon age Veil guard the Perfect push For Upscales look at Gotham Knights , Look at Kill the Justice League None of them are AAA anymore Flops now yes DGV is not out yet but The Game Development is The same Complacent Puppy at its worse Overreliance on Upscales and Old Game Engines and how Game development has gone down a Black whole There is maybe 4 red Hirings Per every 8 years , Before 2009 we had AAA games almost every 2 or 4 years now its dropped badly Now there are other reasons like game Engines Not working on beloved IPs like metal Gear & splinter cell , and legacy of Kain , Half life , Bloodlines , so many games long forgotten none have a new game in the works with our correct PC advancements . Upscale is 1 Massive Problem its also picking good developers also Great companies , also 5 other reason but yes Overreliance
Not disagreeing about the abuse of upscaling as a crutch, but I think you're underrating what can be done with dynamic lighting that can't be baked in ahead of time. Particularly in combination with another thing I'd like to see a lot more of: environmental destruction/manipulation. More dynamic environments will need either more dynamic lighting or very simplified lighting.
This is my big issue with The Finals, that game doesn't even let you turn off upscalling, the best you can get is to have the upscaller run at your native resolution. On top of that the only anti-aliasing option you get is TAA so the game is blurry past twenty meters. Its like everyone who worked on the game wears glasses and don't understand what the world looks like for people with 20/20 vision.
Optimization is this nebulous word similar to "netcode" or "engine" that most people citing don't really even know what is involved. Sometimes it's not about optimization, simply just a poorly coded game, sometimes it's the tools or engine used to develop the game and sometimes it's just the CPU bottleneck not able to process the frames on the user's end. I don't think the issue is upscalling although especially on console, which only uses fsr which simply isn't very good. The more prudent issue is developers are scaling from resolutions so low that the tech was never intended to compensate for and the result ends in a visual mess while not even improving the performance that much due to the inferiority of fsr compared to tech on pc like dlss
Agreed. Upscaling is fine if you have a decent resolution source image to work from. People just get irrational and fall into the group think about fake frames. That being said a modern console game should be targeting 1440p variable internally with some drops to maintain a stable 60. I play at 4k on my PC but usually have to use FSR to get a good frame rate; ideally a 60 lock or at least within the VRR range of my monitor. If I can’t get to that then start dialling back settings.
I'm an old school gamer, I am fine without these features. I never have kept ray tracing on. I don't even care about the 30 fps and 60 fps debate. Just make a fun game!
Practically all UE5 games have this problem. They simply do not run well without upscaling on any system. Case in point - Remnant II. Even with a 4090 you can't even reach 50fps on average at 4K native. Let that sink in. The game doesn't even use Lumen or other form of RT. WTF ?! Developers are outright telling gamers their games are being built with upscaling in mind. Then you have industry leaders like Jensen Huang (CEO of NVIDIA) going out there and saying sht like: "We can't do graphics without AI today.". Which of course is a code-word for upscaling, frame-gen and other crutches. Now, for Jensen specifically, the motivation is pretty clear. NVIDIA is the AI behemoth currently so they will try and inject as much AI buzzwords/tech in their products as possible. But then devs see such statements and feel validated in their belief that yeah, gamers should just use DLSS/FSR/XeSS and stop whining about optimization. Let's face it, the days of playing graphically demanding games at native res are gone. We made one step forward and two steps back. I will remind you that the migthy 1080Ti at the time it was released was a 4K 60'ish native card. That was 7 years ago. The 4090 is 4-5x stronger in raster and yet needs to render games at 1440p or lower to get you same or better experience. Let that sink in. And sure, games today look better and all (though not always), but do they look 4-5x better ? Not really. But hey, stuff like Nanite generates meshes and LODs automatically for devs, Lumen does the lighting by itself, so devs don't have to. Optimization ? Why ? The automatic stuff will do that for us, right, RIGHT ?
I beat the game when survivor came out, but I kind of regret not voting with my wallet like usual and waiting for them to fix it because even with my 4070 it looked like someone put vasoline all over my screen the entire time lol
Man upscaling is such a scam DLSS by design makes your game look overall worse so that some things can remain in high res without scarificing the framerate When you turn your settings to 4k and turn on dlss - to maintain the framerate, the game descales the resolution of background and peripheral textures and models so that the game can continue to run It doesnt just magically enable you to play a game in 4k. I run a monster and ive never thought a game looked better with dlss.
Bud, "close to 100 fps" with a 4090 in a 2020 game is not "outrageous", it's the bare minimum. Let's remember you need DLSS to even get that fps on a $2000 graphics card, mkay? Personally, I'm very disappointed at the fps my 4090 gets in games if I don't upscale
At least they’ve gotten better, fsr3 is exponentially better than 2. Also the frame gen is shockingly good taken into account that fsr3 doesn’t use in machine learning. Genuinely think if they implement that with their next cards it’ll be better than dlss cause it’s already so close without it
Inplayed AC Origins on my GTX 860m laptop with high-mid mix settings , It was phenominal to see an entire country level of traversal and graphical fidelity running on a 2GB vram laptop Now games look somewhat worse on waay powerfull hardware
Competition should deal with it. Thing is, competition is reduced at top level because of the very high market entry costs: development is now a huge upfront cost. Interesting you say CyberPunk looks amazing with RT. Usually I see people arguing it "doesn't make much difference" and folks "turn it off". Mostly AMD owners indulging their cope, of course. :D
As a mouse and keyboard player that really wants at least 100 fps but doesn’t want input delay it’s very frustrating. I have a 4090 and most games still don’t have usable ray tracing without frame gen. I get that it’s hard to make all these games work for everyone but it sucks that you can have a really nice pc and still struggle to find the experience that you get on console as far as optimization and each graphics setting being dialed to achieve a stable frame rate. Console isn’t quite as stable as it used to be perhaps but games like Jedi Survivor with my 4090 were unacceptable. There literally wasn’t a computer that could run that game maxed out smoothly. I wish more games went with less photo realism and more animation anyways. I like color and contrast more than realism I guess. Why not more games with the Kena style?
Black myth Wukong looks ok but you can’t even turn off the dlss and need the frame gen even with a 4090. The rocks and walls and some things look incredibly soft and the input delay is just dumb for a game like that.
Yeah guess who pushed RT, who pushed upscalers (DLSS) and who has nearly a monopoly in the GPU market, why since the RTX series GPU went up in price to an absurd level.
Black Myth Wukong on console is a perfect example of up scaling completely running amok to the point that it makes the game look ugly. I don’t know how anybody can stand to play that game on PS5.
I recently played Gears 4 on the PC, which is made with Unreal Engine 4, it's an extremely beautiful game with graphics that easily surpass current games and the performance was incredible, with no crashes or fps drops! The UE5 games that I played are poorly optimized, stuttering all the time and the graphics might even be better if placed natively but the problem is that this engine makes everything so heavy and stuck that you are forced to activate Dlss/Fsr and Frame Gen. which leaves the game blurred with glitches and everything that makes the game uglier and heavier than 2016 UE4 games! I much prefer a beautiful game that runs well than a blurry one full of crashes. The New Gears of War is being made from scratch in EU5 which makes me worried, I can already imagine a super heavy game with crashes all the time, I haven't been able to understand this engine until today this generation is being a complete joke both in terms of games and regarding consoles. Great video
Unreal engine 4 had and still has a lot of issues. Ideally when these engines first come out, the first couple of games, while looking significantly better than last gen, also have issues pertaining to the new engine. Same with unreal engine 3, 4 and now 5. However as time passes, more games tend to use the engine to accomplish greater graphically feats usually almost in line to what was promised in the engine trailers, as devs learn to use it more and as the engine evolves The Coalition is known for carrying the unreal engine to the max. They did it in unreal engine 3, 4 and now want to do the same with 5. Everyone's excited cos they know it'll be insane. It's all about the developers really. So you shouldn't worry. Another fame you should look out for is the Witcher 4. It's going to be on in house form of unreal engine 5 and I learnt cdp red is teaming up with the epic dev team, so it should really be insane.
DLSS looks like cheeks when it’s not 4K. most of the time we wouldn’t even need them if the game didn’t have denuvo lol. that’s 20 frames we’re losing out.
Imo, it was largely caused or a reaction to how online forums (using the literal definition here) would overemphasis graphics in discussions. Any video, showcase, or livestream you would see constant spam about graphics. However, 90% of the gaming audience if not more do not have the capability to run the graphics that they seemingly expected from new games. So upscaling was the quick solution. I'd argue most don't even have good enough monitors even if they have a good enough system The game industry started to believe that the only thing anyone cares about is graphics. So it responded to the outcry and games suffered for it. I now think we are starting to see this attitude change with all these games flopping. Even some companies starting to realize all these people who would constantly complain about graphics being their top issue were the loud minority. Especially with games like Deadlock being so popular with more stylized graphics.
Smart NPC's AI is the one they never trying to improve mostly they degrade it so that the game can use the memory for better graphics processing. believe me... if there is a game, where the NPC's AI is very smart and have huge amount of behaviors variations, even with just PS3 graphics.... everybody will get in line trying to defeat the game
Even Cyberpunk has weird artifacts in dark places with path tracing enabled. And DLSS works best imo only when upscale all the way to 4k. Otherwise even DLSS has the blurry affect. Also for this gen consoles can we please stop with the ray tracing. These consoles use AMD gpus and cannot handle it. The framerate loss is not worth it. Ray tracing cuts your framerate in half. I would prefer a higher resolution and 60fps. I have my pc to do Ray tracing.
I don't mind low fps, because in action games like Dragon's Dogma and TPS games like Ratchet and Clank, the low fps during heavy combat scenarios with particles, enemies, high spells(Dogma's case) and bolts(Ratchet's case) just make is slow down like a bullet time for some times till the end and just makes the engagement so much better unironically!
Digital foundry made a video on final fantasy rebirth on ps5 vs pro and i gotta say ff7 rebirth on ps5 preformace is at 1080p 60fps and it looks awful and the 30 to 20 fps on full graphics looked better but that fps was trash. Ps5 pro is like selling u a mid tier pc but only for Playstation games.
But how much can you optimise a game the uses the newest graphical feartures and or all the demanding stuff? Some features simply require very good hardware like a top tier cpu oder a 4080/4090.
I’ve played games for almost 30 years at this point. And I’ve never been able to tell the difference between a game that says it runs 30 fps vs 60 fps. I’m sure I’ll get bashed for this but I guess I don’t understand the whole 30 vs 60 thing. I also have fingernails for eye balls though.
I tried the performance mode on ps5 for games like god of war and horizon. The images are noticeably blurry and it feels like the frametime isnt consistent
@@santiagoastolfi4243 The simple fact is CPU's are at their Limit. Until we invent a better method computers are not going to get any faster. You can offset this with GPU's, But since there is only one company that makes decent GPUs, They will remain costly for some time. If you want big worlds, Then deal with upscalers. I know because I work on games every day..
@@eddiej.l.christian6754 thats interesting, I wonder how would game developers solve that issue on current gen if AI/image enhancing tools didnt exist. Personally i dont see such a big change in graphics and scope of the worlds created on current consoles vs old gen, so on a first impression seeing that some games look terrible resolution-wise seems like laziness.
Tbf u are exactly right , but from a consumer point of view u think gamers care about technicality of how games work? As far as they are concerned , they want their money's worth and other factors be damned. This is where some of the recent comments against gamers by AAA Dev's play a major despite how unnecessary they were & destructive they were so just a couple of major ex: Baldur Gate 3 VS AAA Dev's , where the AAA dev told that it's not that easy to give a game like BG3 when they have a business to run and don't have luxury of long dev cycles like Larian which didn't release games atleast for a decade and almost operate gaming as a side business to their D'n'D business. And every gamer suddenly jumped on the hate bandwagon against AAA Dev's and started calling them lazy / greedy who are only interested in nickel and diming customers with MTX & DLC's (This one is a bit tricky to say without coming off as defending that 🤡) Then we have that Concord char designer who called gamers as talentless hacks & he was kinda right in a sense when u look at it from a developer POV , u have these gamers as consumers who more or less work on peer pressure and don't care about the process behind it as long as the product is good So these gamers are somewhat surface level technically competent at getting things to work but incompetent in actually understanding how the core process which they are tweaking works. And I kinda get where they are coming from as well , when I was playing first descendent where I had to tweak a few things to run on my laptop and the optimization was kinda weird that I had cap background and game frames at 60fps and using amd graphics gave the game a new look so there is a bit of over reliance on upscaling but I also understand the dependency on it.
@@ak-ub1ym😂😂😂 i don’t care about you, your company or anything, I’m working hard for my money , as you work hard for the slop that your company is making. If I spend 70 USD on a game + 2k USD on a PC I at least expect a solid 60fps , a good game, and native resolution above 1080p. Stop defending these corporate soulles slops. I really really hate this new trend of ,, ohhh poor devs think of the devs” , nah bro, I’m paying for this , you better get it right or find a new job😂
As a mouse and keyboard player that really wants at least 100 fps but doesn’t want input delay it’s very frustrating. I have a 4090 and most games still don’t have usable ray tracing without frame gen. I get that it’s hard to make all these games work for everyone but it sucks that you can have a really nice pc and still struggle to find the experience that you get on console as far as optimization and each graphics setting being dialed to achieve a stable frame rate. Console isn’t quite as stable as it used to be perhaps but games like Jedi Survivor with my 4090 were unacceptable. There literally wasn’t a computer that could run that game maxed out smoothly. I wish more games went with less photo realism and more animation anyways. I like color and contrast more than realism I guess. Why not more games with the Kena style?
The pitch is that the upscaling tech allows low-to-mid-budget studios to speed up development, spend less time on game optimization and focus more on content production. Turns out nothing prevents the tippity-top of the industry from using it and now the AAA and even AAAA-budget projects are also skipping optimization and instead run in fake resolutions and generate fake frames and end up looking worse than Arkham Knight (2015).
AAAA is utter trash TBH
rely on upscaling and still costs them 200m, 1000 people and 7 years to release nothing burgers
It's called money laundering
@@HDGaminTutorials😂😂😂 For real
@@HDGaminTutorials 1000%
Optimization? What is that? Just use DLSS FSR and cut the cost of having a team dedicated to optimization.
DLSS/FSR are so great technologies that are being utilized extremely wrong. Instead of being use as a complementary tool is being used as replacement of the optimization process
It's just like patches. They were meant as a tool to fix bugs in a game or add content. Instead the patches quickly became a crutch releasing games broken and hoping day 0 and day 1 patches fixed it.
The first time i played cyberpunk with raytracing and ambient occlusion was amazing. It taught me to turn it off in every game.
@@dpc4548 😂
Rasterized lighting ftw
No one thought devs would use it like a crutch, but here we are.
Is this sarcasm? It was easy to predict they gonna use it as a way to make even less optimized games.
I remember everyone thinking devs were going to use it as a crutch actually
Upscaling was 100% seen as a saving grace over the past 5 years to these corporations. They were already slacking hard on optimization in games throughout the late 2010's. I remember every new AAA game coming out at the time had comments/reviews saying "the game is good but it has horrible optimization". I'd like to think the community was holding out hope that if we kept reviewing them poorly things would get better...... then came the upscalers. Now any game that comes out running like dogshit has 3 upscaler options to compensate and it rolled the clock back on consumers by almost a decade. There are some games that have the upscaling turned on by default and it's just a sad sight to see.
I can't remember what game i'm thinking of specifically but it came out right as DLSS 3.1 FG released i believe.
I don't care what anybody says nothing looks better then Native 4k, Ray-tracing looks good but is never worth it and DLSS has been more of an excuse for companies to not optimize!
I agree. I hate sacrificing clarity for effects that I barely notice when the game is in motion.
it can be worth it, and devs can be using this tech as a crutch. more than one thing can be true, because not every developer is the same, not every player is the same. you can play cyberpunk at 1440p with all the bells and still hit 90+ fps and it looks great. DLSS set to quality looks almost indistinguishable from native and balanced is still a good option if you need to use it, performance is the only option that genuinely looks terrible.
Yeah, the upscaling does look great in Cyberpunk.
I think we should push the developers to aim for higher framerates overall like 60 to 90 on consoles
Yeah that's not going to happen while the vast majority of displays console owners use cap at 60hz.
Harder to sell a game on high framerates compared to graphical fidelity. Average consumer isn't paying attention to framerate like that.
Reminds me of when guitarists use pre amps for their main distortion to boost their gain and wonder why their tone is crap.
You're using your tools incorrectly.
Using upscaling technology as a crutch, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah! It's the same thing they did with the ability to patch games.
Ghosting is AWFUL in the SX version of Jedi Survivor. Turning off motion blur helps but it's negligible. The game generally looks really good but when you start noticing the ghosting it really detracts from the experience and I can't believe it hasn't been patched out.
Ghosting is so annoying. It seems like a small issue but man it can really ruin enjoyment of a game.
After this whole pager fiasco in Lebanon I figure I’ll give netrunner another go.
Sometimes you have to hit the PSSR to get that target quality!
The PSSR!!!
The Last of Us Part 2 is the great example for optimization, dude PS4 is almost ten years and the graphics of the game with baked techniques still looking good (even 30FPS). Less ghosting and not blurry.
Also, Red Dead 2 is unmatched 7 years later. And will remain like this for a while.
Its getting disgusting, these setting are on by default now, crazy.
Upscaling looks better than native when it's implemented well and right, but we all know that only a few game developers go the extra mile to make it look good. There is a reason why quite a huge amount of silicon is dedicated to AI upscaling and frame generation. Times of brute force rendering is long gone unless you are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for bigger chip.
It is absolutely criminal that some PS5 games are running at like 720p internally. Upscaling is not a magic bullet.
Love how they go from low to path tracing. Instead of ultra to Path
The Fact is Upscaling is a Fake Thing that makes you think your getting Raw power , so AMD & Nvidia Both made it so they can limit Cost long term and Limit our Consumer products so they can sell low end or some what lower end gpus and make you feel like your getting High End Halo Products .
What ended up happening is Consoles Could Not handle True Raw Graphical Power so AMD came up with a Solution to use Upscale tech but Overreliance has turned Both AMD & Nvidia into a Complacent Puppy , Console Companies Sony , Valve , Microsoft so it as a Yea so they put Money into This with newer Consoles and Now the Truth is invasion has become Stagnant Over the overreliance on making Consoles and Games Pushing to more into the o yea console Graphical Power and not push the Game engines to its Limits , AMD just even said they are not making any New High end GPUS , this will slow down the Competitive Market .
But Consoles are also 100% to Blame Companies that make Video Games Have a X amount of people and Money , To develop a 100% pc game is super limited Now every game development studio keeps making games with Console Graphics and limits True Innovation because Consoles cant do what PCs do due to how Consoles are Cooled down and that Cooling technology has not fully been innovated in a very long time , its nit like you can put a 24 gig vram rx 7900xtx inside a PS5 so Consoles are being prioritized hints also the Upscale technology . Look at a few games like dragon age veilguard lol 10 year old game engine so ea. Microsoft limit Growth in gaming due to the Wider consumer .
Those reason i listed is Because Game development studios Publishers are all talking to each other with AMD & Nvidia . so Thats why they are pushing Upscales so they can Milk Console Gamers and F up the Evolution in game development so they can spend less
This also Has Thrown AAA out the window all this has a Effect on Game development how Company's pick High end game development game play and so much more , Upscales are now the drug for Game developers , Look at Dragon age Veil guard the Perfect push For Upscales look at Gotham Knights , Look at Kill the Justice League None of them are AAA anymore Flops now yes DGV is not out yet but The Game Development is The same Complacent Puppy at its worse Overreliance on Upscales and Old Game Engines and how Game development has gone down a Black whole
There is maybe 4 red Hirings Per every 8 years , Before 2009 we had AAA games almost every 2 or 4 years now its dropped badly
Now there are other reasons like game Engines Not working on beloved IPs like metal Gear & splinter cell , and legacy of Kain , Half life , Bloodlines , so many games long forgotten none have a new game in the works with our correct PC advancements . Upscale is 1 Massive Problem its also picking good developers also Great companies , also 5 other reason but yes Overreliance
Not disagreeing about the abuse of upscaling as a crutch, but I think you're underrating what can be done with dynamic lighting that can't be baked in ahead of time. Particularly in combination with another thing I'd like to see a lot more of: environmental destruction/manipulation. More dynamic environments will need either more dynamic lighting or very simplified lighting.
This is my big issue with The Finals, that game doesn't even let you turn off upscalling, the best you can get is to have the upscaller run at your native resolution. On top of that the only anti-aliasing option you get is TAA so the game is blurry past twenty meters. Its like everyone who worked on the game wears glasses and don't understand what the world looks like for people with 20/20 vision.
Agreed. Upscaling tech like DLSS is meant to IMPROVE the existing experience. Not Keep it THE SAME. :( .
The only 2 games I think made "photo-realistic" graphics really well are Cyberpunk 2077 and Alan Wake 2, no other game is even close
Optimization is this nebulous word similar to "netcode" or "engine" that most people citing don't really even know what is involved. Sometimes it's not about optimization, simply just a poorly coded game, sometimes it's the tools or engine used to develop the game and sometimes it's just the CPU bottleneck not able to process the frames on the user's end.
I don't think the issue is upscalling although especially on console, which only uses fsr which simply isn't very good. The more prudent issue is developers are scaling from resolutions so low that the tech was never intended to compensate for and the result ends in a visual mess while not even improving the performance that much due to the inferiority of fsr compared to tech on pc like dlss
Agreed. Upscaling is fine if you have a decent resolution source image to work from. People just get irrational and fall into the group think about fake frames. That being said a modern console game should be targeting 1440p variable internally with some drops to maintain a stable 60. I play at 4k on my PC but usually have to use FSR to get a good frame rate; ideally a 60 lock or at least within the VRR range of my monitor. If I can’t get to that then start dialling back settings.
The issue is it doesn't look as good.
Dlss looks almost as good but still not as good as native
remember remnant 2 ran poorly at launch without upscaler. To the point it was on by default lol.
I'm an old school gamer, I am fine without these features. I never have kept ray tracing on. I don't even care about the 30 fps and 60 fps debate. Just make a fun game!
Practically all UE5 games have this problem. They simply do not run well without upscaling on any system. Case in point - Remnant II. Even with a 4090 you can't even reach 50fps on average at 4K native. Let that sink in. The game doesn't even use Lumen or other form of RT. WTF ?! Developers are outright telling gamers their games are being built with upscaling in mind.
Then you have industry leaders like Jensen Huang (CEO of NVIDIA) going out there and saying sht like: "We can't do graphics without AI today.". Which of course is a code-word for upscaling, frame-gen and other crutches. Now, for Jensen specifically, the motivation is pretty clear. NVIDIA is the AI behemoth currently so they will try and inject as much AI buzzwords/tech in their products as possible. But then devs see such statements and feel validated in their belief that yeah, gamers should just use DLSS/FSR/XeSS and stop whining about optimization.
Let's face it, the days of playing graphically demanding games at native res are gone. We made one step forward and two steps back. I will remind you that the migthy 1080Ti at the time it was released was a 4K 60'ish native card. That was 7 years ago. The 4090 is 4-5x stronger in raster and yet needs to render games at 1440p or lower to get you same or better experience. Let that sink in. And sure, games today look better and all (though not always), but do they look 4-5x better ? Not really. But hey, stuff like Nanite generates meshes and LODs automatically for devs, Lumen does the lighting by itself, so devs don't have to. Optimization ? Why ? The automatic stuff will do that for us, right, RIGHT ?
The recent update deleted my save.
I beat the game when survivor came out, but I kind of regret not voting with my wallet like usual and waiting for them to fix it because even with my 4070 it looked like someone put vasoline all over my screen the entire time lol
I always play without any Upscalers. I prefer 2k without instead 4k with upscaler.
I really like the visuals of RT, I think lumen is a good happy medium. It’s like 65% of the visuals of hardware RT with half of the performance cost.
Lumen is software raytracing btw that doesn’t require physical RT cores
Man upscaling is such a scam
DLSS by design makes your game look overall worse so that some things can remain in high res without scarificing the framerate
When you turn your settings to 4k and turn on dlss - to maintain the framerate, the game descales the resolution of background and peripheral textures and models so that the game can continue to run
It doesnt just magically enable you to play a game in 4k.
I run a monster and ive never thought a game looked better with dlss.
Games should be polished to 60fps and upscaling should then be an option on top of that for high frameratesm
Bud, "close to 100 fps" with a 4090 in a 2020 game is not "outrageous", it's the bare minimum. Let's remember you need DLSS to even get that fps on a $2000 graphics card, mkay? Personally, I'm very disappointed at the fps my 4090 gets in games if I don't upscale
At least they’ve gotten better, fsr3 is exponentially better than 2. Also the frame gen is shockingly good taken into account that fsr3 doesn’t use in machine learning. Genuinely think if they implement that with their next cards it’ll be better than dlss cause it’s already so close without it
When You cannot reach 120Hz with the worlds most powerful processor on a game looking 10 years old-- bruhhh 🤣
Inplayed AC Origins on my GTX 860m laptop with high-mid mix settings , It was phenominal to see an entire country level of traversal and graphical fidelity running on a 2GB vram laptop
Now games look somewhat worse on waay powerfull hardware
Yo luke your outro is catchy drop a 3min version of it how you dont got a video of your theme song?😂🔥🔥
Why sell raw power for 600$ or more when we can sell cards with AI upscaling and frame gen forever.
Competition should deal with it. Thing is, competition is reduced at top level because of the very high market entry costs: development is now a huge upfront cost.
Interesting you say CyberPunk looks amazing with RT. Usually I see people arguing it "doesn't make much difference" and folks "turn it off". Mostly AMD owners indulging their cope, of course. :D
As a mouse and keyboard player that really wants at least 100 fps but doesn’t want input delay it’s very frustrating. I have a 4090 and most games still don’t have usable ray tracing without frame gen. I get that it’s hard to make all these games work for everyone but it sucks that you can have a really nice pc and still struggle to find the experience that you get on console as far as optimization and each graphics setting being dialed to achieve a stable frame rate. Console isn’t quite as stable as it used to be perhaps but games like Jedi Survivor with my 4090 were unacceptable. There literally wasn’t a computer that could run that game maxed out smoothly. I wish more games went with less photo realism and more animation anyways. I like color and contrast more than realism I guess. Why not more games with the Kena style?
Black myth Wukong looks ok but you can’t even turn off the dlss and need the frame gen even with a 4090. The rocks and walls and some things look incredibly soft and the input delay is just dumb for a game like that.
Native is always better, its insane that we get charged for something that could be sold as a software.
graphics are good enough now make it work
Euh this is old news. We knew this would happen the day dlss saw day light.
Yeah guess who pushed RT, who pushed upscalers (DLSS) and who has nearly a monopoly in the GPU market, why since the RTX series GPU went up in price to an absurd level.
Black Myth Wukong on console is a perfect example of up scaling completely running amok to the point that it makes the game look ugly. I don’t know how anybody can stand to play that game on PS5.
I recently played Gears 4 on the PC, which is made with Unreal Engine 4, it's an extremely beautiful game with graphics that easily surpass current games and the performance was incredible, with no crashes or fps drops! The UE5 games that I played are poorly optimized, stuttering all the time and the graphics might even be better if placed natively but the problem is that this engine makes everything so heavy and stuck that you are forced to activate Dlss/Fsr and Frame Gen. which leaves the game blurred with glitches and everything that makes the game uglier and heavier than 2016 UE4 games! I much prefer a beautiful game that runs well than a blurry one full of crashes. The New Gears of War is being made from scratch in EU5 which makes me worried, I can already imagine a super heavy game with crashes all the time, I haven't been able to understand this engine until today this generation is being a complete joke both in terms of games and regarding consoles. Great video
Unreal engine 4 had and still has a lot of issues. Ideally when these engines first come out, the first couple of games, while looking significantly better than last gen, also have issues pertaining to the new engine. Same with unreal engine 3, 4 and now 5. However as time passes, more games tend to use the engine to accomplish greater graphically feats usually almost in line to what was promised in the engine trailers, as devs learn to use it more and as the engine evolves
The Coalition is known for carrying the unreal engine to the max. They did it in unreal engine 3, 4 and now want to do the same with 5. Everyone's excited cos they know it'll be insane. It's all about the developers really. So you shouldn't worry.
Another fame you should look out for is the Witcher 4. It's going to be on in house form of unreal engine 5 and I learnt cdp red is teaming up with the epic dev team, so it should really be insane.
DLSS looks like cheeks when it’s not 4K. most of the time we wouldn’t even need them if the game didn’t have denuvo lol. that’s 20 frames we’re losing out.
Imo, it was largely caused or a reaction to how online forums (using the literal definition here) would overemphasis graphics in discussions. Any video, showcase, or livestream you would see constant spam about graphics. However, 90% of the gaming audience if not more do not have the capability to run the graphics that they seemingly expected from new games. So upscaling was the quick solution. I'd argue most don't even have good enough monitors even if they have a good enough system
The game industry started to believe that the only thing anyone cares about is graphics. So it responded to the outcry and games suffered for it. I now think we are starting to see this attitude change with all these games flopping. Even some companies starting to realize all these people who would constantly complain about graphics being their top issue were the loud minority. Especially with games like Deadlock being so popular with more stylized graphics.
Smart NPC's AI is the one they never trying to improve
mostly they degrade it so that the game can use the memory for better graphics processing.
believe me... if there is a game, where the NPC's AI is very smart and have huge amount of behaviors variations, even with just PS3 graphics.... everybody will get in line trying to defeat the game
No views in 20 seconds bro is normal
Even Cyberpunk has weird artifacts in dark places with path tracing enabled. And DLSS works best imo only when upscale all the way to 4k. Otherwise even DLSS has the blurry affect.
Also for this gen consoles can we please stop with the ray tracing. These consoles use AMD gpus and cannot handle it. The framerate loss is not worth it. Ray tracing cuts your framerate in half. I would prefer a higher resolution and 60fps. I have my pc to do Ray tracing.
BRO STOP IT WITH THE CRAYOLA WAX PEN DRAWING USE A NORMAL LINE
Time for all the ps5 pro crying kids to say something about gpu prices
I blame nvidia
I don't mind low fps, because in action games like Dragon's Dogma and TPS games like Ratchet and Clank, the low fps during heavy combat scenarios with particles, enemies, high spells(Dogma's case) and bolts(Ratchet's case) just make is slow down like a bullet time for some times till the end and just makes the engagement so much better unironically!
Digital foundry made a video on final fantasy rebirth on ps5 vs pro and i gotta say ff7 rebirth on ps5 preformace is at 1080p 60fps and it looks awful and the 30 to 20 fps on full graphics looked better but that fps was trash. Ps5 pro is like selling u a mid tier pc but only for Playstation games.
But how much can you optimise a game the uses the newest graphical feartures and or all the demanding stuff?
Some features simply require very good hardware like a top tier cpu oder a 4080/4090.
Ray is tracing WHO?
Witcher 4 going to flop hard
I’ve played games for almost 30 years at this point. And I’ve never been able to tell the difference between a game that says it runs 30 fps vs 60 fps. I’m sure I’ll get bashed for this but I guess I don’t understand the whole 30 vs 60 thing. I also have fingernails for eye balls though.
I tried the performance mode on ps5 for games like god of war and horizon. The images are noticeably blurry and it feels like the frametime isnt consistent
The RT in CP without mods is NOT worth it. Native ultra, with perhaps the rt reflections only, is more than enough
Bro we gotta stop abbreviating Cyber Punk 😂
@@iedutul1 Cyber Punk? 🤺
Nothing is worse then someone who doesn't know the tech trying to have an opinion. This is the same has you having an opinion on giving birth...
@@eddiej.l.christian6754 what is your opinion on the topic, then? Im really interested to know, because i agree with this video
@@santiagoastolfi4243 The simple fact is CPU's are at their Limit. Until we invent a better method computers are not going to get any faster. You can offset this with GPU's, But since there is only one company that makes decent GPUs, They will remain costly for some time. If you want big worlds, Then deal with upscalers. I know because I work on games every day..
@@eddiej.l.christian6754 thats interesting, I wonder how would game developers solve that issue on current gen if AI/image enhancing tools didnt exist.
Personally i dont see such a big change in graphics and scope of the worlds created on current consoles vs old gen, so on a first impression seeing that some games look terrible resolution-wise seems like laziness.
Tbf u are exactly right , but from a consumer point of view u think gamers care about technicality of how games work? As far as they are concerned , they want their money's worth and other factors be damned.
This is where some of the recent comments against gamers by AAA Dev's play a major despite how unnecessary they were & destructive they were so just a couple of major ex:
Baldur Gate 3 VS AAA Dev's , where the AAA dev told that it's not that easy to give a game like BG3 when they have a business to run and don't have luxury of long dev cycles like Larian which didn't release games atleast for a decade and almost operate gaming as a side business to their D'n'D business.
And every gamer suddenly jumped on the hate bandwagon against AAA Dev's and started calling them lazy / greedy who are only interested in nickel and diming customers with MTX & DLC's
(This one is a bit tricky to say without coming off as defending that 🤡)
Then we have that Concord char designer who called gamers as talentless hacks & he was kinda right in a sense when u look at it from a developer POV , u have these gamers as consumers who more or less work on peer pressure and don't care about the process behind it as long as the product is good
So these gamers are somewhat surface level technically competent at getting things to work but incompetent in actually understanding how the core process which they are tweaking works.
And I kinda get where they are coming from as well , when I was playing first descendent where I had to tweak a few things to run on my laptop and the optimization was kinda weird that I had cap background and game frames at 60fps and using amd graphics gave the game a new look so there is a bit of over reliance on upscaling but I also understand the dependency on it.
@@ak-ub1ym😂😂😂 i don’t care about you, your company or anything, I’m working hard for my money , as you work hard for the slop that your company is making. If I spend 70 USD on a game + 2k USD on a PC I at least expect a solid 60fps , a good game, and native resolution above 1080p. Stop defending these corporate soulles slops. I really really hate this new trend of ,, ohhh poor devs think of the devs” , nah bro, I’m paying for this , you better get it right or find a new job😂
As a mouse and keyboard player that really wants at least 100 fps but doesn’t want input delay it’s very frustrating. I have a 4090 and most games still don’t have usable ray tracing without frame gen. I get that it’s hard to make all these games work for everyone but it sucks that you can have a really nice pc and still struggle to find the experience that you get on console as far as optimization and each graphics setting being dialed to achieve a stable frame rate. Console isn’t quite as stable as it used to be perhaps but games like Jedi Survivor with my 4090 were unacceptable. There literally wasn’t a computer that could run that game maxed out smoothly. I wish more games went with less photo realism and more animation anyways. I like color and contrast more than realism I guess. Why not more games with the Kena style?