Responding to your EV battery thermal runaway comments and criticism | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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On the bright side VW actually saved their customers from years of pain, suffering and misery by destroying their cars for them
perfect comment.🤣
John alluded to that in a previous video on the sinking.
Ouch
😂🤣😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Your reporting on the ACCC findings in November re: Mazdas criminal treatment of warranty work gave me premium ammo when the engine in my Mazda cx5 shit the bed. Long story short the dealer bought the car back from me after fitting a new engine and it hemoraged coolant 2 days later. Now waiting on a new Pajero sport which I was able to demand a good deal on. Not all heros wear capes, some wear camo and caps.
Good result. Which CX-5 engine was it? I am aware that Mazda have probs with their 2.2 skyactiv-D.
I was looking at a CX5 Diesel recently and the dealer said if you drive mainly in the city we suggest you get the petrol as the Diesels go Poopy too often in city only use.
@@csjrogerson2377 yes thats the one. 2015 Akira with 105,000 kms. We had taken it to them previously with concerns and were told things like the radiator fluid had been over filled thats why it sprayed the engine bay. Took it to an indipendent mechanic and they downloaded the faults that the stealership had been clearing but not fixing so when it went bang we had them dead to rights.
I'd be interested to know which engine as well...we have the CX5 Turbo.
@@robertwhittaker1801 Not true in our case, we are regional WA and it does (oops did) majority long highway kms. I suspect the issue is linked to the EGR system.
Sadly, we do come across people who don't need any energy to get into a hyperbole of runaway stupidities
Possibly an inherited trait
Thus directly related by the ongoing dilution of the gene pool, I'd suggest ;-)
Someone points out an inherent danger with LI tech, this is interpreted by others as EV hate.
This is why we cant have nice things..
Yes, John. Facts are facts and the fact is, you did not give a single supporting one. John's argument is that VW did bad shit before so therefore, they MUST be personally responsible for the entire state of EV batteries today. Again, with literally zero evidence to support the claim.
Yes, lithium batteries are subject to thermal runaway both from the reasons you stated in your last video and additionally from dendrites forming which cause a short circuit from anode to cathode. This is well know. Fast charging in particular is problematic for dendrite formation.
The batteries available to every company are roughly the same but with slight variations in chemistry and all of them are subject to the same inherent thermal issues. Telsas catch fire. Chevy bolts burn down houses and had all had to be recalled. A Remic almost killed Richard Hammond. VW has had 13 thermal related issues across all EVs sold in the world up to know. (Not counting the ones they just lost)
Tesla has had about 40. Hyundai has some between 20 and 30. Every maker of EVs have them.
Yet, according to you... VW is the reason for all of this.
Are you sure you are an engineer, John? Maybe FOX News in the US is hiring?
One of the best I have watched, I wish I had you vocabulary when I deal with idiots, you give them the facts and they resort to accusations of what is not even being discussed. Great show John.
Thanks David. People have lost sight of what an 'argument' actually is. It's a logical framework for arriving at the best ideas, not two people shouting at one another...
@@AutoExpertJC It's actually worse than that - most people can't think logically at all.
@@dekkerlundquist5938 You wonder how some can tie their shoelaces.
Nah....The best way to argue these days is to call some sexist/racist/fatphobic/privileged etc. Like this: John, you're lithiumironist....
@@AutoExpertJC Some commenters prove my theory that you cannot masturbate to internet porn 24/7. With a little "time on their hands" between rounds of viewing porn, they populate the comment sections with extra-masturbatory vocabulary precision to try and start an argument....their second favourite thing after porn.
This is/was a good example of showing how little some of your viewers listen to, understand, and respect the facts. In their haste to vomit up their misguided assumptions based on some weird other reality… keep up the good work baldie… life would be soooo boring without you..
While lithium-ion batteries are a common energy source in homes and businesses, they are still classed as Class 9 Dangerous Goods.
Awesome presentation John! Keep it up. As I'm sure you will, even in your advancing years. On a side note, now I'm slightly concerned about all of my L-Ion batteries for my tools. Do you have any suggestions for storage, as opposed to some on tools, some on the charger, and some just loose in a drawer.
Yes. I might address that in another video.
I keep my big (2kg) Lithium Polymer drone batteries in multiple, reinforced ex-British Army 81mm Mortar round cases. Best place for them...
This video got me thinking about where i store my older batteries - especially my bigger Ryobi batteries.
Old military ammo boxes are what you're after. Failing that any robust steel box will do. Keep that storage box away from anything that burns.
The radio control hobby world has been dealing with this for over a decade.
Any metallic box that has a closable lid, stored away from flammable materials and on a non flammable surface is best.
For example, an old ammo box on top of a couple of pavers.
More practically, if you can store them on a metal shelf segregated from anything flammable such that if they do catch fire it won't spread, that's a vast improvement on what most people do.
Great review John! As an engineer I’m often described as an asshole for correcting the philosophy of the Dunning-Kruger crowd. And yet I must again correct those that designate me as an “asshole”, I’m a hemorrhoid! I irritate assholes. 🤓
Im no scientist. I am an electrician of 42 years experience and i do install ev charging outlets. I am also a clear mathematical thinking person who will not stand for falsehoods. EV cars from conception to scrapping are in my honest opinion, worse for the environment than sensible regular cars.
I am an electrician of similar vintage
I struggle to rationalise the EV as well
People just don’t understand that quick charging their Tesla in their home garage is going to take days …
And their first retort is to call me names and accuse me of not being green compliant …
They won’t believe that this is not possible
Too much energy expected from an available supply
They just don’t want to go with the facts
Your average 15a outlet just can’t recharge a large EV overnight and when you suggest and price the electrical upgrade required to facilitate their wishes they have a fit !!!
Did you forget the lifecycle of gasoline production? Electric cars skip that part.
@@captaindave88 hi dave. No. Taking all into account.
@@philipmann9548 ua-cam.com/video/6RhtiPefVzM/v-deo.html
May I suggest that those who wish to comment on Lithium battery tech, have a look at the recommended usage, storage and charging of LiPol batteries used in the quad copter (drone) and model aviation hobbies. Yes there are some minor differences in the various types of lithium batteries but the safety procedures are the same. The difference is in the scale of the issues, such as size and weight.
I think the thing we all must remember when it comes to immersing burning batteries in water, is that said batteries are now fucked,,, so you are not going to be using them again, not even as a paperweight. Thermal runaway, caused by either an internal fault such as poor charging or and external issue such as proximity to excessive heat (see fire), is in itself causing a short or breech in the battery. So again, it's fucked anyway.
So to recap, battery burning, battery fucked, buy some more!
To err is human but to really fuck things up requires a computer. So glad to have stimulated and aroused you... in a manly and platonic kind of way. I worked in the aircraft industry and thermal runaway in battery storage and charging systems is taken very seriously (not to mention the battery crammed devices the crew and passengers take on board) and John Cadogan has just pointed out, (as only an engineer could) why the industry leaves all the maintenance of the electrical/electronics "stuff" to the "experts". From my own research, I was under the impression that the lithium metal anode in solid-state batteries sometimes caused dendrites to form and in some instances actually pierce the casing leading to overheating problems. As you can probably guess I'm not an electrical engineer, I just fix the damn things after the propeller heads design them.🙄👍
The solution to the problem of battery fires is so obvious I don't know why nobody has thought of it before. Do away with batteries altogether and just use very long electrical cords.
Been reading about depreciation of EV vehicles and it doesn’t look good. Some articles stating 2 yr depreciation of up to 75% while ICE only 40%. New technology in battery and cheaper models creating havoc in the industry. Also reports of new batteries costing more than vehicle after warranty expired. As a person looking to purchasing an EV my research seems to indicate…WAIT. Got any comments in this regard. The journos who spend all there time telling u how soft the interior trim is are losers as far as I am concerned and struggle with serious issues
Being a retired propeller head from CSIRO (fire science), and a volo firefighter of almost 40 years - this was a very interesting video, thanks John!
Hooray for propeller heads... chemistry has never been the average person's strong point. I could never figure out how a base element like lithium can be transmuted into a compound as the nucleus of the lithium atom is so unstable. I always presumed, (until now) that it was the metal side of the equation and not the gases produced themselves that was the issue in thermal runaway.
As a fellow UA-cam Channel owner, kudos to you John for dealing with the next generation of "Darwin Award" candidates so effectively. One of my favourite sayings that I have heard is that "opinions are like arseholes, each to their own". Facts on the other hand..............lol.
Thanks again!
@ John, that is why Lithium batteries are forbidden to transport (in bulk) on passenger airplanes and are only allowed in exempted quantities. Cargo airplane only, and even then, there are special requirements. We dont need another VakueJet592 crash (1996 due to oxygen generators). IMHO lithium batteries are the same or worse in this perspective
#DangerousGoods
Just the other day I recieved an email from Fitbit alerting me to a safety recall on my 3 year old Fitbit Iconic watch due to a risk of having a Lithium fire attached to my wrist, the last thing you would want especially while asleep.
They advised to immediately remove the watch, register that you have done so and they would disable the watch and lprovide refund and a discount on a new watch. How that for proactive action.
Cheaper then lawsuits from people being cooked in bed.
I watch your videos while I work from home. This is easily my favourite form of entertainment, you taking on the nuts!
Best possible regards, Leo
The nuts are a filter that allows the explanation of semi-complex concepts, with a little humour. Long live my nuts!
Shame on these big battery manufacturers for not having the foresight to engineer a method of harnessing the energy released during a thermal runaway! And they call themselves "environmentally conscious..." I think I know what my next Kickstarter sca--Er, breakthrough will be!
Good piece, but LFPs do not combust unless you chuck them in an oven at around 200C while piercing them and adding an ignition source. A fairly unlikely scenario while driving a car, I think you'll admit. LFPs could theoretically experience a TR event but unpierced and in a solid casing they would generate a bunch of heat but not much more. The spontaneous combustion of LFP batteries is extremely unlikely. That said, battery management systems are included with LFPs to enhance performance and as a secondary safety feature.
Well John, I'm afraid you won't make much of a prime mincer. You'd have to spend entirely too much time telling the idiots they're idiots, and with so many there simply wouldn't be enough time left for the MALS program.
As to your comments, yes LiFePO4 batteries experience thermal runaway, just like the rest. No argument from me.
I would however like to point out that most of the time where we use foam these days (since the banning of AFFF foams containing PFAS and PFOS) it isn't for oxygen exclusion, it's for the surfactant content and it's effect on surface tension. Using foam allows for better wetting of the substrate and more effective suppression of the fire, or at the very least improvement in removing heat.
Also, the intent in submerging an EV vehicle isn't just to do your best to remove heat. It's also to short out the remaining cells within a module to allow for the discharge of otherwise stranded energy. The reduction in state of charge reduces the likelihood of further thermal runaway events, and where they do still occur it reduces their severity. I can't point to specific scientific papers on the subject, this is essentially what I've taken away from the overseas training materials that I've seen. In other words, pinch of salt may be required.
Regards, a firefighter, electrician and electronics technician.
To your viewer that made the comment about "firefighters using foam". The applied fire fighting foam is 97-99% water and only 1-3% foam concentrate.
To sum up. Lithium batteries are dangerous and need to be managed carefully. Fossil fuel engines and associated fuel tanks are 10x more dangerous and need to be really, really managed carefully.
I'm sure in the interests of avoiding being known as a dog whistler, John will now do 10 shows on oil spills, firery petrol crashes, and maybe a runaway tanker careering, out of control towards another fuel tanker parked outside a pre-school.
Nuts, nuts, nuts, what a nut fest. Glad to see that you still have enough nuts to keep you reporting. Thanks again John, another great and informative video.
Why disable comments on hilux DPF filters, when you say you don’t give a shit what people say?!?
We are pleased to report that, so far, the only significant finding has been that if you force a baby squirrel to smoke seven-hundred cannabis joints a day, he will become disoriented, seems to take the laws of self-preservation less seriously, tending to play with his nuts rather than store them.
😂 😂 😂 😂
Deep. Profound. Have you considered becoming a hermit ?
@@dougstubbs9637 We've got enough baboons around here. Don't act like a red-assed primate, please. If I choose to dignify your comment with a response, live with it. Or work yourself into a frothing frenzy and drive into a tree I don't care.
You are (al)most amusing.
I anticipate much hilarity from your next serving of what shall be a glorious, carefully scripted, artistic, deeply-felt, meaningful (in a spectacularly meaningless way) dribble of drivel.
@@dougstubbs9637
why do you hate your life so much?
I wonder if any of those who brought up oil spills have ever changed their own car's engine oil and if so what did they do with the old oil?
I took the old oil to a local oil recycling collection point.
@@graemeforssberg3986 You may be one of the few.
Being a new UA-cam content provider I've realized Humans are a lot dumber that I previously thought .
I found that out on talkback radio in Sydney - it was shocking to me also. Winston Churchill said the most powerful argument against democracy was a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Hard to dispute that...
People individually can be smart, groups are dumb and dangerous.
Same Churchill who bungled the beginning of the war and had the Germans bombing London town within a years time and was desperalty begging the Americans of all people for help??
This says 'View 3 replies . . .' and only shows one. I, too, am a new YT content provider and am baffled by what YT does half the time. This situation is one of many anomalies.
I get lot's of clowns make stupid remarks, and we are similar in how we deal with them. Common sense is the least common of the senses.
John - It might be worth doing a similar video on the dangers of cars with components made of aluminium or especially magnesium. A former colleague who owned a (diesel-engined) Jaguar watched their car disintegrate in a few minutes on a UK motorway (and not in hot weather) due to a small engine fire getting out of control due to them being present. I do remember the 'Mythbusters' video showcasing the effects of burning aluminium with other elements together as thermite.
Interesting that it was a Jaguar. I was introduced to the vagaries of Jaguars about 65 years ago when I was still in primary school. One of our neighbours came into some money and bought a Jaguar. Within months it was back at the dealer with a warped cylinder head. Don't know how they still get customers.
I have really enjoyed the two clips discussing batteries and assioated risks when they fail.
I have basic understanding of the electrical terminology though chemistry is my downfall.
Cheers for talking slowly and making it understandable for the average "Dingo-piss-creek" resident.
Much appreciated.
Nice! I didn't know that putting batteries in the oven was science. I guess I'm an honorary PhD now!
With petrol at $2.20/L all these concerns are becoming pretty moot John. TR in EVs is very rare, and even more rare in EVs that use LFPs as their battery chemistry, and as rare as hen's teeth in thermally managed LFPs. Anyone still considering buy an ICE vehicle must have either their head in the sand or sand in their head.
So because petrol costs more it doesn't really matter if some evs burn to the ground? Not sure I follow
I love this video!! Especially the ending!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 Damn near busted a gut Lmao!! Keep up the great work John!! It's so refreshing, especially in ... 'Merica, to hear honesty, and see transparency through actual facts!! This is something they evidently no longer teach at university, at least not for journalism!! 😉 So again, thank you!!
Not being a propeller-head, can I conclude if I keep my lithium battery out of the oven, and don't subject it to 200+ C temps, it should be OK? Or do I need to listen again?
There are other failure modes besides those two.
One of your featured commenters went by the name Gary Numan.
Quoting the first verse of his 1979 hit song "Cars":
Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars
I wonder if Gary's friends are electric.
Tell it like it is John, SENSATIONAL, could you just slip over to Europe and tell us the bloody truth about what is going on over there. I’m sick of listening to peoples arguments based on the bullshit they hear on the news.
Keep up the good work
Cheers from SA
No worries Ian. Thanks for watching.
John has every reason to shit on VW. Don't believe me, just jump onto Netflix and watch "Dirty money - Hard NOx". It sums up VW pretty well.
No one is saying that VW managment has not been a bunch of immoral fuck wads, because they have. The amount of damage they did to the German econonmy is significant.
But presenting misdeeds as proof of current wrong doing is horse shit.
I am not a VW fan, but nor doesn't mean they are the reason for EV woes.
The best quote to sum up the commentary summary, "Never underestimate the power of Human stupidity". I read that in a book by Robert A. Heinlein 40 odd years ago, and it was so profound, it has stuck with me ever since.
quote by Lazerus Long, I dimly recall it was listed in two places in the list of wise sayings.
That's the one! "Time enough for Love" is the book, one of my favourites from this author.
Damn, its just turned into a bloodbath on the nutbags today
Thanks John, awesome video as always. Learning so much about battery tech from watching your content.
Thanks Alex.
Love your work john . Its a channel where you learn from but also a comedy channel all in one keep up the good work
Question - does the recent increases in fuel prices, if permanent, make EV's more economically viable? Also, for petrol users, does it change the economics of which fuel to use to drive your dollar furthest?
Yes - obviously.
I know for one the availability of petrol is higher nowadays in UK as every single time they had a fuel shortage they would only have diesel on the lorry pumps. Petrol was always availible.
The price of Nickel , Copper and Aluminium have increased sharply as Russia is a major exporter. These are all critical components for batteries, so it will be interesting to see how this filters down over next few months if there is no resolution to Ukraine conflict.
@@AutoExpertJC it will be interesting to see how much recharging EVs will cost when and if we all ditch our ICEs. I'm sure our government will increase the tax on electricity to make up the loss on fuel purchases. Can't wait for these batteries blow up and or drain out faster than they can be recharged.
@@brettjasonheadinventor They did the same thing with diesel and now that is more expensive then petrol engine cars.
Indeed. Advanced ETs are looking down n shaking there heads in disbelief
Indeed, Karen Carpenter hasn’t been alive since 1983. They won’t come here unless invited. Polite Greys that is.
And I still prefer the term Foo Fighters to UFO.
John, did you ever worry about the Kona EV you had ever doing it’s Fantastic Four “Flame On!!” imitation at das Phat Cave?
No. 'Worry' is a strong word.
Facts are lost on the EV flat Earthers....
As someone who lives in an acoustically transparent shitwa generating electricity using photovoltaics and storing the electricity in LiFePo4 batteries...there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation out there about the lithium chemistry. I put a lot of faith in the battery management systems to keep my mobile house from exploding, but I'm certainly well aware that thermal runaway is a possibility. People certainly need to be made aware of that.
What I don't want though is people to be scaremongered into believing that lithium based energy storage is scary and bad.
Didn't have to work with caravan and boat repair places long to find a lot of fires and drama with badly installed house battery systems decades before any Li** tech became available... All high energy storage systems have risk - the issue is that many people are incredibly trusting or ignorant or uncaring when it comes to those risks. The only thing that scares me about the latest battery types is the complacency demonstrated by so many when it comes to their use...
John, you have way more patience than I will ever have.
My mother told me: “Argue with an idiot and you end up with two idiots arguing”😂
Ha ha, that's true. Go mum!
“Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to there level and beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
My sympathy John. But, I had to teach these nuts. I had to teach them maths and science. And to be specific, apprentices. Until education is given importance, better remuneration, better funding and better resources, we are left with a level of ignorance that is embarrassing. While education is seen as an expense rather than as an investment we will always have the nuts.
Sure. Just read through this comments section or the comments section of any YT video and cringe at the lack of basic grammar. And that from native English speakers, evident from their English names.
Edit: spelling.
@@attilajuhasz2526 Neigh is what a horse does; nay is what a person says when he disagrees. You should have just said 'or'.
Here's YT anomaly - your comment says 57 minutes ago and Atilla's says 59 minutes ago. How did he/she reply 2 minutes before you wrote?
@@aussieideasman8498 thank you. Corrected.
@@attilajuhasz2526 Well done; reads much better.
It should be acknowledged that it's far easier to start a fire with petrol than it is with a battery in an EV. While they have a warning at petrol stations to not light up a cigarette or even use your mobile phone while filling the tank for fear of blowing up the entire petrol station you can quit happily smoke an entire pack cigarette while charging your EV without a worrying about your house burning down, in fact charging your car is an ignition source that almost never starts a fire! On the other hand, if you have a gas leak in your house and there is an ignition source there goes the house! So yep... EV batteries explode at a lower temperature but you kind of need to put them in a fire to reach that temperature! On the other hand, gas and petrol just need an ignition source. Statistically cars with a fuel tanks catch fire significantly more often than EVs and I'm not talking about that's because there are less EVs on the road. From insidEVs (Jan 18 2022) On average there have been 3474.5 Hybrid car fire 1529.9 Gas car fires and just 25.1 EV car fires per 100K cars sold! I assume Hybrids are more likely to catch fire because you are combining EV charging with a gas tank!
Couldn't the batteries ship separate say on a tow behind barge?
The customer would witness the mating on dock, and be handed a count down clock along with a pair of very dark sunglasses.
Wonderful idea but it would require a complete redesign of the car. In most EVs you can't remove the batteries without pretty much dismantling the car. In some EVs they're built in as part of the structure.
I comment the other day on a news article about a gigantic battery bank being built near me. I commented that I hope none of the banks have a catastrophic thermal runaway. Almost as soon as I got my finger off the send button I was flogged with comments by flogs that they will be made with LFP batteries that do not suffer from catastrophic thermal runaway.
Seems to me I may not have been wrong for once.
PS I’d love to hear the out takes of you doing the characters voices of the comments you read out. There is some pearlers in there hahaha
ah I feel satisfied after this royal serving of nuts! Thanks John. Seems all you need to do is to stir the angry pixies and the nuts come falling from the sky.
Humanity always evolves a better idiot, just when you think you've seen it all.
@@AutoExpertJC Hey, I'm from Macadamia and we've just come up with new improved varieties of nuts. 😁
Yeah...and my filled 5 gallon gas can is so safe, I bring it to work as an emotional support device. IDK why I get all the harsh stares on the Park and Ride bus.
One correction: LFP has about 10% less energy density than NCA. However, it is not recommended to charge your NCA Tesla above 80% for best battery longevity. 80% is the default Tesla charge limit I believe, but this can be overridden (with a warning) if longer range is needed. NCA battery life is shortened if left ar 100%, heat also.
LFP can be chargered to 100% every time and still have 2x the charge cycles of NCA @ 80% charge. Also LFP can be charged faster due to being more tolerant of high temperatures.
So, for most charging,, LFP has effectively 10% better range.
There have already been several of these type of ship fires while transporting ev vehicles ,none so devastating though, but still very costly.All were difficult to get under control. There are already safety regulations for transporting evs by sea to ensure this does not happen but I guess it costs too much to abide by them.Hopefully this disaster may change that, it all depends on how much it adds to the cost of purchasing the car.If you read the regulations and were to follow them to the letter I'm guessing it would be an amount that would make the eyes water.
Gee. If the measures to control ship board fires in EVs is to plonk them on a catapult and fling them out to sea, sign me up.
Just imagine if you were commenting on TESLA...you could really upset the EJ Fan Boys/Girls...by the way 15.07...music to my ears...
I feel a lot of commentators, commenting on LFP, may have watched the test undertaken by BYD on their blade LFP batteries. I enjoy John’s presentation and would be grateful if he could make a video or video reaction to the BYD LFP blade battery . Cheers, John
That was a piercing short-circuit test, as I understand it. The battery is still susceptiblr to TR from other mechanisms - fire or overcharging among them.
It's got more to do with the solid state electrolyte they use (though technically not fully solid). They prevent the dendrites forming that so easily short circuit in liquid electrolytes.
Penetration tests are important and useful on batteries on moving vehicles. Just don't confuse it with the thermal runaway issues discussed here.
@@PowerOn- Penetration tests are there to provide a quick path to thermal runaway - just to see if it (SS) shorts like a liquid electrolyte does. There is a correlation, and they stopped testing liquids long ago - they failed, yet they still put them in cars.
Well I’m glad we’ve cleared all that up. In summary, LFPs can immolate but have proven much safer, albeit with lower energy density, adding 100kg or so to an EV for the same range (see Tesla Standard Range). EV fires are no more prevalent that liquid fueled vehicles but are somewhat more spectacular and difficult to contain. The incidents of fires in LFP equipped EVs are even rarer. In fact, I’m struggling to find examples. And then there’s the lower cost of LFPs as they do not use nickel or cobalt. In the case of the latter, also avoiding the unsavoury use of child labour in the Congo. All worth knowing and considering when choosing an EV. So that’s Tesla Standard Range, latest MG and BYD… And just for good measure, those stalwarts of consumer care and protection, VW, are switching to LFP for certain vehicles, apparently. Bless them.
I'm so confident of my LFP batteries that I went and bought a steel box to put them in and have arranged a fast removal system to ensure I can pull the bastards out of the camper quick smart. In addition, I have a thermal alarm to monitor the steel box internal temperature to let me know when to pull the plug.
agree and thanks to john i have done the same . i think it is why they have pushing smoke alarms in houses , because if your cell phone sets your sofa on fire while not in the room or asleep , has given me a wake up call
@@grizzz6884 yeah nah. Smoke alarms have been a thing before phones brother.
John, John, John, My boy. My extraterrestrial pals and me DID want to make contact with you last week. Trouble is the fuc$#%g flying saucer was fitted with your planet's EV batteries. Bastard caught fire and fell on some ship carrying VW primitive technology which really caused us a bad day
John, You had to resort to a lot of you A grade material this time mate, (Aliens not making contact...outstanding).... and super well done too by the way, the specific EV battery concerns are real and can be problematic.. sad that we live in a world where we MUST compare A to B and 'equalise' them for some form of comparison / argument / wankfest / I don't know..!! I don't always agree with you mate, *(naturally) but as an aircraft engineer who's been working with lightweight technology for decades I was dealing with battery thermal runaways in the 90s when our brand new light weight batteries were taking out the whole aircraft if we hit them too hard and started multi engine aircraft engines, in sequence, too quickly. Old style starters could be hit one after the other, very cool too..!! Love your vids mate..
Mate the units is the best unit I seen in ages ,no price mention, 😡but who cares , bad enough it’s in America, bring it down Aussie ,they will sell like hot cake ,🧐 great channel nice attitude 🤪.
The new VW unit is it’s big competition, but price will sell the right unit ,first time I watch you channel ,well into electric units , but as you stated blood Tesla every were down under , but I see BYD is coming 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😂😂2023 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
Such eloquent contempt for scientific innumeracy. Sadly wasted on your trolls, although if monkey heaven exists, I'm sure many of VW's former simian co-workers with access to Monkey You Tube will be applauding your efforts to educate and inform.
John,
You are brave, this subject just can’t be discussed properly, I reckon you’ll still have to make a follow on …
It’s like trying to explain how fissile material (effluents) leave a nuclear power station or reactor every month…people are convinced it’s a sealed / closed system.
Good luck! Great closing comment.
So it was those poor crew on car carriers and ev transport safety in general that drove you making this video. Wonder who came away with that narrative from the 1st vid. You’re saying it was those Taycan batteries sending it to the ocean floor like it’s a fact (you’re so big on), it’s a possibility at best, you don’t even know how many Taycans were on board. And why mentioning the VW past indiscretions? Obviously you’re saying ioniq 5’s and ev6s from your beloved Kia/Hyundai require their shipping companies to leave 10m distance between their evs! Otherwise why else mentioning it? I doubt it. Perhaps it needs a 3rd video to change the narrative again to clarify this confused nonsense. Don’t get me wring though, i’m all for changing safety standards on ev transportation in general.
I have a mate that owns a mega acre farm, he has multiple solar powered bore pumps... recently converted to lipo...
From the Old Lead Acid... batteries... he has now has problem, that the new lithium batteries, suffer from heat stroke, and aren't as efficient as the Old Lead Acid Batteries... the lead acid batteries didn't give a fuck if it was 2 deg Celsius, or 100 deg Celsius...
My Fireman mat has told me, that in a Electric car Crash, they have to do a Has Mat rule...
Thanks John. You seem to have it confirmed that the Felicity Ace's fire was 'started' by thermal runaway as compared to 'assisted and prolonged' by thermal runaway. I'm just wondering where you got that confirmation? I could only find a report quoting the ships Captain stating that the presence of EV batteries made it difficult to fight the fire. An important difference.
Sadly, most technical advances throughout history have bought specific risks and associated complexities. If we were really that concerned about thermal runaway in Li-on and similar type cells we would possibly think twice about our kids running around with mobile devices in their pockets. I made the mistake of picking up a smashed mobile once!
It is interesting to read the story behind Tesla's early initial solution to this obvious hurdle. Hopefully battery technology can keep progressing to the point that some of these significant safety issues are at least reduced.
It's a big discussion topic about EV's and fire risks amongst fire agencies. I've been in the NSW RFS for 22 years and dealing with EV fires in bushland areas will be totally different to normal firefighting efforts because there are generally no hydrants on the 'next corner' and most bushfire tankers in NSW carry only between about 3000 and 4000 litres of water and 1/4 of that water is *always* reserved for protection of the tanker and crew in case of an emergency, so would just a few thousand litres put out a Telsa model S suffering a thermal runaway fire? No - that water is better used to manage all the bushland around the car that the fire sets alight. Thanks for featuring my comment on the earlier video btw.
LOL, Ive had a NhMi battery go poopies whilst recharging in my car charger whilst on my way to a photoshoot....... Things that make you go Hmmmm. Jeeez it stunk.!
To be fair that comment was in response to another comment, not your report. However, I take your point - 6 wrongs don’t make the Felicity Ace any less of an environmental disaster, albeit only a potential one at the time of this comment. So, mea culpa. It was rather pithy even if I did spell disastrous incorrectly. Cheers, big ears - you hoisted me on my own petard. I can admit when I’m wrong - can you? Despite the smoke and mirrors, this one event still doesn’t make EV batteries less safe than the fuel tank in an ICE vehicle. On the contrary, they are demonstrably safer. Lithium batteries, in that volume, are dangerous to transport on a cargo ship full of oil without better safety measures. But I’m pretty sure they’ll do something about that now - or shipping lines will simply refuse to carry EVs. John Mitchell
Misinterpretation. IMO MondoTV was making a statement about you John creating publicity about the VW barge fire, and not talking about the oil spills. His point is about the volume of media coverage of these 2 things. I for 1 would like to know the extent of damage caused to the environment from 1 EV loaded ship compared to a oil tanker going down and the amount of damage that causes. Which is worse? So many time we have herd about oil spills, just isn't very flashy anymore, where as EVs burning through the side of a ship and sinking it, well that is new and easy to dangle in front of the mas public. Here, look, look at this, look and listen something bad happened with this new great tec. Seems like journalism and crack dealers get their business models in the same school now days. Keep up the good work John.
I love Vokswagen, the Type 3 wagons and Mk.2 Golfs/Jettas are stylingwise absolute legends.
The modern VAG Corporation can burn.
Serious question from someone that has many decades since high school lab. The fire safety tubes filled with a gas (FM200), that puts out the fire when the tube is opened by the heat of the fire. They are great to use on RVs engine and generator compartments, race cars, also on farm equipment in dry season. Wondering if the gas in the tube could actually displace the oxygen being produced by the batteries and put the fire out. I know you don't think the foam like Cold Fire would be a good choice but the FM200 gas I wonder if you think it could work? Thank you for being you and being honest even when it is to honest for some to handle. Stay safe and healthy Sir.
Thanks again John I learn a little more about technology, vehicles and science from each of your videos.
One small point. It was stated by one of your correspondents that the Toyota Kluger that became a fireball on the Sydney Harbour Bridge was powered by an internal combustion engine.... Are we sure? I mean Toyota Kluger have a Hybrid version which has a massive battery pack in the rear of the vehicle. I haven't seen it written anywhere which model Kluger it was.
Another great video and whats the most satisfying is I always learn something new. I am however very disappointed how stupid people are with their obsessive dogma, its entertainment value does wane after a while. I wonder if they look at your video and think "oh my god I so stupid I am surprised I managed to get dressed in the morning" , probably not they still believe they are right. Oh and just to wind the Tesla fans up and lot of Tesla owners are complaining. apart from quality and shit update that the range is only 170 mile and not 240 as the EPA tests say and on 130 when the temperature is cold. Could this be because the EPA test is done by car companies and they may not tell the truth AKA VW.
Love your videos John and calling out the bullshit in particular no matter what the subject. I have always loved to drive, but I work 5.5 km from home and have done for the last 18 months follow 3 years of an 80 km each way daily commute, so I ride my bicycle to work daily. I have saved a fortune in fuel costs and parking, am less stressed when I get home and can transit both to and from work faster on my bike than anyone can do in a car. Most of the drivers that cut me off or abuse me appear to be pissed that they are stuck in traffic whilst I simply ride past them (usually smiling). Investment in infrastructure that takes people out of individual cars and into alternative transport including trams, trains, buses, bikes, scooters or walking all helps traffic flow and assists the total carbon footprint. I cannot wait to hear your views in this space. Please keep up the good work.
Interestingly China is implementing a system that makes a lot of the issues with EV charging go away. One basically signs up for a battery subscription. EVs swap batteries at service points and in under 5 minutes a car swaps out a discharged battery for a fully charged battery.
It’s actually based on a system first implemented for electric taxis in Manhattan around 1900.
Downside is that a driver doesn’t own their battery so needs to maintain that subscription to keep their vehicle running, but the vehicles become a lot cheaper at the dealer.
If that guy thinks you john are the biggest hater of VW then i hope he never meets me. I cannot stand them to Neptune and back, i won't even get in a taxi if it's VAG. Every time a customer comes in with one for repair i feel like shouting get the f*ck out, however i just smile and say i see the fault already. Then i say it's got VW on the front. Some folk laugh and some give a odd look.
Hi John, a Car Fire Blanket to contain lithium Ion battery fires is already available in Australia. In fact some Australian EV dealers are already purchasing them for there own car dealerships and service centres. After the Felicity Ace sinking Interislander ferries in NZ have just brought forward the car fire blanket deployment forward and they are now on every car deck. The blankets are also being used after an EV has been in an accident and is in storage. Using a fire blanket ua-cam.com/video/yO8cVWOqZcg/v-deo.html
Another great presentation from John. I don’t think many EV fires, oil spillages or ICE fires are deliberately planned - some maybe - but are more generally caused by accident or stupidity. This will ever be the case with so many potential occurrences around the globe. The issues, surely, are to be able to safely and effectively deal with them when they do occur and to reduce the potential risks for them to happen in the first place. Years of dealing with oil transportation and vehicles with liquid fuel tanks means we have good safety legislation - not always adhered to - although you cannot eliminate every potential disaster!
ICE sunk the Titanic.
John, mate, I stand in awe at your patience and tolerance, in responding to these comments. Patience of a saint, wisdom of Solomon, impressive. On the downside, this is surely a tragic indictment of the Australian education system, Sad, and very worrying. Somehow we all have to make our collective futures out of this intellect.
Runaway Lithium batteries? . . . Large container of water to supress the reaction. Atlantic Ocean fits the bill but has to be said that the word 'overkill' springs to mind
Apart from the cost of buying n rego of your EV n then taking it home n nesting it under its favourite Doona n plugging it in ya garage. What do the fuckers cost with each charge up etc pls bud?? Lol Running costs??
Makes me think twice about all L-ion (or iron) batteries. I don't pretend to understand the science but now have a newly acquired wariness of these batteries. I'll be having a good think about how they need to be stored, charged and used.
will we ever see ammonia engines in australia? these ev's are waste of time space and hard earned money - do u have any knowledge on ammonia engines?
Phosphorous is the LIMITING element for Life on planet Earth. And we're going to put it all into batteries? Yah, that seems fine.
So putting the entire shipload of electric crapboxes into a large body of water, the Atlantic Ocean, forever, was the only thing that would save the planet from the thermal runaway of those hundreds and hundreds of batteries.
Any chance they could raise Felicity again? Distraught I never got the opportunity to meet the gal. Thermal runaway the battery version of elopement.
Hey that comment anout the Tesla battery fire from Gary Numan, didnt he write a song about "Cars" LOLOLOLOLOL
I was just served with a VW advert whilst you were talking about them. How did they know? Now I'm scared.
Big fan of you, but I have a 50k cad budget and want to get a BMW but my wife want the Audi q3
Can you help please and thank you
As eve`r, John, flipping Brilliant. Greetings from Tasmania Australia 👍😁🤯
I did miss these *_"with nuts"_* videos.
16:54 I'm not sure why he was doing chemistry in a physics class, but no doubt next he'll be worrying about the deflagration potential of dihydrogen monoxide since it has "hydrogen" in the name.
H2O (water)... hydrogen and oxygen, are the two most flammable elements in the universe. 😋
@@mael-strom9707 The amazing properties of water by putting out fires. Another fun fact is solids usually sink in their own liquid state, yet ice floats in water, and if it didn't the world could not exist.
@@aussieideasman8498 Yeah, but never use water on a magnesium fire for that very reason... fun fact, a lot of aircraft components are magnesium and early VW engine blocks had issues too.
Afternoon John
How are the chin-ups progressing?
I had a remote control car battery melt down in 1988 , was a Tamiya battery and there was no way of putting it out , kicked it out the door and let it self destruct.
What about those Samsung phones and the hoverboards? And if you watch Electroheads there's a good one where a presenter throws his scooter on the street just before he dies in his flat. The claims by EV zealots that they burn less often than ICE cars is a clear case of lies; damn lies and statistics.
Shits and giggles. Battery oven. Comments. Pro tip nice touch. Thermal run away events.
Hi John, what will the future EV mechanic look like, will they be 50% mechanic and 50% electrician?
The fully charged show and their electical boffins claim ev vehicles pretty much cant catch fire what is going on?